Monty Python's Mafia Circus Game Over

[Muerrto]

Popping in to say hey and I'll post either tonight or sunday(moving tomorrow).

*exits stage right doing his best silly walk*

[Muerrto]

OMG!!! This is the best mafia game EVER! I have been laughing my ARSE off!

Bruce! Albatross! Ahahahahaha!

*rubs away a tear*

Ok, down to brass tacks

Vote: Darla

There are NOT two taunters and Spyre countered so that makes him the taunter obv

@Spyre(off topic): WHAT is your avatar it's driving me mad because I know I know it but I can't place it?!

I'm glad my predecessor never posted so I don't have to explain his posts =p

FoS: Chen

If you don't know Monty Python, fine(although why'd you sign up then?) but you can STILL play mafia which you DO know how to do so what's with the no posting?

Iron, Jordan, Killa, TSN, Az, LG, Internet, christ how many lurkers do we have in this game?!

I didn't get a post restriction and I don't have cigarettes either I feel so plain.

Never seen Mirth mirth-y but maybe she just really really likes Monty *shrug*

LOVE the Bruce and Albatross posts and think they'd have to be town since giving scum a post restriction like those would really just help them lurk and stay out of the spotlight(or contribute to the chaos in the case of Imagin)

Other than that, not a whole lot but OMG the hilarity. I was trying soooo hard not to laugh(I'm at work) with the whole Bruce explaining why he says Bruce and why no one else can really vote for Bruce because, Bruce, only Bruce can vote for Bruce. Priceless.

PS. I wanna be Dimsdale =p

[Muerrto]

Oh and Albatross said he lost his night action for breaking his PR. Bruce didn't say what his was and I don't wanna know.

[Muerrto]

Shrug I got prodded. Thought I made my opinion clear enough. Anything changed?

[Muerrto]

Ok

As to Poker: He probably asked for cigs and matches like in the sketch and ended up saying something about going back to his flat bouncy bouncy. Watch the skit.

Vote: IM

obv. A softclaim then a dissappearance?

FoS: Spyrex

It would be an insane gamble but even though she was scum she WAS a taunter. Do we really have two? Seems weird. The other guards in the movie never said anything just laughed. Also, what's with the bridge keeper? Did you know the capitol of Algeria?(I think that's the right place)

FoS: Chensi

You did not play yesterday. You've posted more so far today than you did all day yesterday.

And finally, did anyone else notice that LG was a cult UNrecruiter? Do we have a cult in all this mess???

[Muerrto]

I didn't get visited by anyone that I know of. Can you please explain the birdgekeeper? And what IS your favorite color anyway?

@Mirth: 4 votes when we need 8 to lynch? Yeah, I'm ok with that.

@PF+K7: One or both of you just soft claimed, the same thing we told IM NOT to do but he did anyway. Can we PLEASE stop having power roles out themselves?

I'm assuming either K7 tracked you/watched Strapp or you're masons(?) but leaning towards the former.

Either way, stop claiming for the love of god.

@Chensi: It's great you're playing. It's not that you can't explain why you didn't yesterday. Can you?

[Muerrto]

Checking in, waiting for IM, ridiculous...

[Muerrto]

OMG this back and forth between Strapp and Mirth is crazy.

Will people PLEASE PLEASE stop soft claiming? Would you hint you're a cop in a normal game? Of course not. So since this is some silly theme it's okay to out yourself like that? What purpose did that serve? And what's worse is like 90% of the people in the game have been doing it. What the hell?

[Muerrto]

Speculating about doc protection is dangerous.

@Spyrex: If you pulled Strapp in and Strapp targetted you anyway then your ability didn't really come into play. So Strapp's a watcher and saw the bridgekeeper, herself, and some machine target you last night.

What does K7 have to do with any of this? And PF, you got confirmation it was Elvis who replied or it was 'someone' who replied? Also, was it Elvis or a character name? Seems weird Strapp saw characters and you saw Elvis herself.

IM needs to full claim his target.

Think I caught everything. With so much frickin claiming it's hard to know where to turn atm. I'll wait for some of these answers then worry about it.

PS. Why is everyone still claiming everything?

[Muerrto]

Muerrto, any reason why you're so quiet this game?

Quiet?? You're kidding. I might be posting less(which is due to a new job and different hours/days off WOOHOO!) but I'm far from quiet. I keep telling people to stop claiming and everytime I say it another person claims. I'm lost as to why just because this game has a theme people have thrown any semblance of mafia common sense out the window.

I think the discrepancies between what Strap saw/was told what Elvis saw/was told, and what Spyrex saw/was told is very strange. This game may have a zany theme but I can't see the mod altering the rules and standards etc because of it.

Why did Strapp see characters, Elvis see 'someone', PF get a reply from Elivs, and Spyrex know it was the bridge keeper?

That's a whole lot of differences there I'm not comfortable with. Since you've all already claimed fully, how bout you say specifically(without quoting of course) what you saw.

Also, IM still needs to share his target so we can figure out what the hell's going on

[Muerrto]

Um... OK so Killa, who did YOU target? Because according to IM it should've been re-directed randomly to someone else.

[Muerrto]

Nothing really new here. IM claims to have targetted K7, K7 claims to have targetted PF and claims it went through. So either IM is lying, IM was blocked, or K7 is lying.

Still happy with my vote on IM as the most likely option of those three and his insane lurking but yet still participating in other games.

At least, according to others, Chenhsi and K7 are always like this

No clue about Internet.

I really hate lurkers and if you

always

lurk then change your playstyle...

[Muerrto]

Spyrex targetted Strapp. If IM had read the thread he'd have known not only that but what Spyrex's role does.

[Muerrto]

I think that these questions make it more certain that he is protown, as he would not need these if he was scum, and this would make a poor WIFOM, as if he was mafia he could just never claim.

While I'm not saying the BK is scum or town, I'd say assuming he's town because of his questions is bad WIFOM itself. He did ask if you were cult and who your partners are so he could be scum. He also asked if you were scum and who your partners were so he could be cult. He could also be town checking both.

Still seems like a ridiculously powerful role.

Not suggesting this per se but someone might wanna think about lying if the question is too powerful an answer(like what's your ability) to see what happens if they lie.

[Muerrto]

Just popping to say I'm here. Agree on the Chensi and Jordan, not on the Azimuth so much. Waiting to hear the case on me since I was on the list.

[Muerrto]

My read on Muerrto:

Muerrto - No post by Borge. Does a read through believes Sprye comments on hilarity. Prodded after 3 days has no opinion. Post 5 saying since DBE came up as taunter seems that Spyrex suspicious. (I can understand this) Post 6 Again i agree about the PR outing themselves with all this talk. By post 8 I'm curious why he keeps getting upset with all the soft claims (yes I know it stupid to soft claim or claim unless necessary, but some claims have some what helped me in narrowing down certain leads). By post 12 it is clear to me that Muerrto doesn't seem to vote alot. He also seems focused on those not posting more then those that seem scummy. Post 14 Thinks the BK (bridge keeper) as too powerful of a role question is if the BK is town isn't that a good thing then? Last post I just curious who you think is scum at this point and why if you agree with me and my post.

My read on Muerrto is inconclusive. It like he hasn't said enough to really get a read on and what he has said has been good (in the beginning) to nothing at all. I think the talk of lurkers is a bit hypocritical coming from him.

Um...I got prodded over the weekend. I've quit games for that(in fact I recently did) but I liked this one so I stayed in. I am VERY conscious of where my vote is at all times and I HATE lurkers. That's meta you'll always see about me.

As for not voting alot though, I voted for both DBE and Iron Man. How many other lynches have there been?

And soft claims ARE stupid which is why I haven't made one and I was sorry indeed to see you join the ranks of those that had.

Shrug I'll try and do a re-read and post something substantial later.

As for the BK, he does sound extrmely over-powered, town or scum. And no, that's not good for the town. This is a game and as such should be balanced. If you just wanted your side to win you could have a game of 4 cops, 4 docs, 4 vigs, and 1 scum =p

Good read on me though except the lurking/not voting part. I'm usually more agressive as well but since this is a silly type game I toned it down.

Still don't like Spyrex or K7(due to DBE and IM, respectively) and still wondering who the cult is since we're at day 3 and they could technically have 3 members by now. Does that not scare anyone else?

[Muerrto]

@Muretto - why did you say you'd quit games because of a prod? What is it about me that makes me still scummy?

The prod thing was just a point I was making. I was prodded over the weekend and told(in not very friendly terms) that if I'm prodded twice more I'll be replaced. I was prodded over the next consecutive weekend and again chastised for a game =p I asked the mod to immediately replace me.

My point was I almost never get prodded so when Shaft prodded me over a weekend it kind of ticked me off but he hasn't done it again.

And I didn't say you're 'scummy' per se. I just still have trouble swallowing 2 french taunters.

[Muerrto]

Sorry I'm not posting up a storm. Honestly this game is turning out to be more of a job than a game. I feel like I need to make some kind of graph of what everyone's role is(since everyone felt the need to claim) and who they targetted. Something I understand some people do for every game but I've never wanted nor needed to.

To be short, this game has me quite lost.

Personally, I think that the flavor leads to our standard mafia (the actual shot on day one) and to an SK - tied to a dish rack and poked to death seem like very "silly" methods to die and, of course, no one expects the Spanish Inquisition; but we do expect mafia.

Does a Cult normally get kills as well as recruits? With the two kills Day 1 and the single kill day 2 I would think that a Cult doesn't make sense - but an SK sure does.

Um...someone had the role of 'cult un-recruiter'...can you explain why we WOULDN'T have a cult please?

And normally the cult can kill OR recruit.

Spyrex goes down in my book as #1 suspect for a cult. Makes sense too since 2 french taunters, 1 scum, 1 town, would be insanely weird.

K7's action on PF makes sense but IM using his action(confirmed) doesn't. Could scum have a role blocker? Yes. Would scum pick IM to block over all the other choices available since everyone had claimed day 1 already? No. Just no.

Don't like K7 or Spyrex.

The rest is just lurker hunting which I normally like but with a growing cult and multiple scum running around I think lurker hunting is a good way to make the town lose quickly.

[Muerrto]

I'd have to say:

K7
Chensi, Azimuth, Internet, TSPN(lurkers)

Now those 4 aren't just lurkers, they have done some things that have raised eyebrows but K7's claim just doesn't add up with IM's confirmed ability and I DON'T see scum blocking IM when there were plenty of other already claimed targets.

I'd also like to throw back this question and get everyone to chime in on the cult. Most people haven't said anything and 2 people in particular have said that they're almost sure there's no cult...that makes me suspiscious.

[Muerrto]

A cult can exist and finding earlier than later is best. I don't quite have ideas to find it myself. if you got some ideas feel free to shout them out.

Aside from being blocked, it is also possible Ironman did not get his action in on time, which i brought up, and it is also 'slightly' possible K7's targets randomly went to what they orignally were.

Yeah, you're right about the claiming, but IM already said he put in his action and since he was town I'm gonna assume he wasn't lying.

I'm still not sold on Spyrex.

As for the cult I've been putting Spyrex up there as #1 suspect for 2 reasons: he's a duplicate claim which is EXTREMELY weird in a theme game and he's also quite sure there's no cult even though he can't explain why we have an un-recruiter.

[Muerrto]

Simul post, I agree. I thought there were more claims day 1 but I came to the game in the middle of it.

[Muerrto]

SpyreX's claim was same name, different powers. Something to note.

Can you name another theme game where someone had the same name?

Not impossible, just don't like it.

[Muerrto]

Muerrto (I'll give a full case later, but a pinch of OMGUS, the odd focus on the cult (and me being in it), the "hunting lurkers is bad, my suspects (aside from K7) are suspects for lurking and the fact I, who he's brought up more than once, isn't even on there)

Um...they asked who our scum suspects are. You're not one of mine so you weren't on there. Did you even read my post?

And where did I say hunting lurkers is bad? I said I'd rather hunt actually scummy people but I HATE lurkers. I'm not sure I've ever played in a game where I didn't say that at least once. I hate them. They kill the pace of the game with their constant prods and their 'I'll post later' blah blah. Meta me if it makes you feel better. BUT, that doesn't mean it makes them scummy just because I hate their playing.

As for the OMGUS and the 'case' on me? Looking forward to it. Since your two other points were blatantly wrong I'm assuming there's not much case there except OMGUS.

I'm focusing on the cult because it's day 3 and there's a possible 3 man cult about. How would 'Cult un-recruiter' be flavor for Brian? How come everyone else got an actual 'role' and no flavorful title like that? And how come you still can't explain that but are still gung ho about there not being a cult?

I said who my top scum suspect is and why so I'm not just focusing on the cult. Just because K7 used his action on PF doesn't mean he A. meant to, B. is town, C. is linked to PF at all. You're assuming too much there.

[Muerrto]

Hell, you've mentioned ME more than any one other player in an obvious negative fashion for the latter half of today. So, yes, its really surprising that you've not actually made me a suspect - if you're going to toss my name in the ring (often in the same breath as your "top" suspect) I'm going to sure expect I'd at least be a suspect.

If you can quote where I ever, EVER claimed you were scum then I'll go ahead and answer the rest of your questions. Otherwise you can say 'oops my bad' and I'll answer them anyway because I'm nice

Mentioning your name in a game where there's possibly multiple parties does NOT mean I have any suspiscion whatsoever of you being scum. The whole 'he claimed taunter to make himself safe' is complete junk. DBE had no suspiscion really before her claim, well not enough to be lynched, there was no way as scum that you'd counter her and get her killed.

Do I think you're cult? Yes. Very strongly. Have you convinced me otherwise? Not at all. Do I think there's even the slightest chance of you being scum? No. None.

Have you ever played in a game with a cult before?

[Muerrto]

Are we talkin apples and oranges here? Cult is scum - hell, any third party that doesn't win WITH THE TOWN is scum.

No, no, no. Because your situation with DBE I don't think you're on the same side as her. Because of your claim of a duplicate name I don't think you're on the same side as the town. If you wanna call the cult scum fine. I think you're part of scum group B whereas DBE was scumgroup A. Since she wasn't cult that makes you cult. Huge difference.

[Muerrto]

Have you ever played in a game with a cult before?

Forums, nope? Does that really matter here? Nope. If ANYTHING, the fact you're saying your suspects you think are maf (and not cult) when you feel there is a growing cult faction is even more bizarre.

Of course it matters. That's the point. You completely miss the difference between the scum and the cult:

A. The cult can grow, the scum can't.

B. Usually the cult can recruit or kill.

C. They're not known to each other so they're not on the same side so calling them both scum is WRONG.


Looking at A and B alone you can see that the cult is just plain more powerful than the scum. The only difference is that the scum START at full numbers while the cult have to GET THERE. But the scum can only go down in numbers, not up. The cult is much, much more dangerous if left for too many days.

[Muerrto]

Lets, for clarity sake, call "scum" anyone who doesn't win with the town that, of course, the townies would want to lynch. So:

Cult = Scum
Mafia = Scum
SK = Scum

That's why you don't understand because the above assumption is wrong. Very wrong. You said you've never played with a cult in game before so let me clear some things up for you:

A. The cult win when they outnumber everyone. That means they want town AND scum to die.

B. The scum win when they outnumber everyone. That means they want town AND cult to die.

C. The town win when the cult AND the scum are dead.

So the cult are NOT on the scum's side and vice versa. Same for the SK. Calling them all scum is wrong, confusing, and leads to the whole discussion we're currently undergoing.

Farside asked for a SCUM list. You're not on mine, never have been.

@PF: As for the cult being a red herring, possibly. You still haven't found a tobacconist? Do you have to ask in thread or does it only work at night? Do you have to direct your question at the right person at night for it to work? Does your PM say anything?

[Muerrto]

And again, re: Spyrex,

there is a clearing investigative result on him.

Um...I missed this. Where?

[Muerrto]

You're not going to convince me that anti-town factions are not "scum". But, assuming your belief - just because Farside asked for a scum list and not a mafia list or a cult list... you didn't put me up as a suspect when you think I'm part of a larger threat? Hell, you're not even voting for me (I think, haven't seen a vote count in a bit). Why would you not want a cult dead if they are a larger threat?

It's not adding up and hiding behind a "scum != cult" doesn't, to me, make your actions make sense - that is why I find you suspect as being an anti-town role.

Hell, am I off base with this? I know I dont have too many games under my belt, but I've read more than a few and I've NEVER seen this particular argument.

Have you read one with a cult? If not please do before pursuing this further. CULT =/= SCUM.

[Muerrto]

My statements have matched my actons completely. Some people are more careful with their vote than others. I'm sorry LG said that about anti scum etc because it's still wrong, period. I wish others would chime in but this is really just mafia theory so drop it and if you really really wanna pursue it AFTER the game I can educate you in another thread, as can just about anyone else on the forum.

[Muerrto]

And, TSPN - are you talking about Strap? Or did I miss an actual investigative role clearing me?

I'm talking about the bridgekeeper-whose results I trust, for the most part.

Why? Also, why would you trust Spyrex's answers?

FoS: TSPN

And Spyrex, I didn't see cult listed in that Wiki quote. And for good reason. I'm not trying to be condescending but you said yourself you don't have alot of games under your belt. I do. Just drop it. This is a discussion for mafia theory, not this game.

[Muerrto]

[Despite the fact I am now even more confident Muerrto is scum

You seem to plug this into just about every post but only since I started calling you out. Yet others are also suspect of you and you haven't called them out. Can you post a case with quotes and evidence or is this straight OMGUS?

@Elvis/PF: As for the Cult, herring? Possibly. But I'd rather err on the side of caution. As for how Spyrex fits on my suspect scale? He doesn't. But he seems sooo adamant that there's no cult to the point of calling me scum for accusing him of being in it that he just screams cult himself.

@TSPN: As for the bridgekeeper. So what you're saying isn't that you doubt the existance of the bridge keeper since it's been confirmed twice, but for some reason you take Spyrex's answers as he posted them at face value and call it an investigation confirming him? Did I get that right?

[Muerrto]

hmm... so you think he has a good chance of being cult (because he doesn't think there is one), but otherwise don't suspect him considering he isn't scummy compared to those you earlier mentioned.
Is that what you are saying Muerto?

I can see why Muerto's comments have come off as somewhat contradictory. Since Muerto wants to lynch the cult, it would make sence he would want to vote for and scumhunt someone who has a good chance of being cult. I think this is the conection SpyeX is making. Muerto, do you see you previous suspects as having a good chance of being in a cult? Do you want to lynch cult or scum(Mafia, SK, etc) first or does it not matter to you who goes first?

Not really. I'm saying he can't be(IMHO) aligned with Darla who was scum but the fact he's supposedly a duplicate claim in a theme game is something I've literally never seen before. Has anyone else?

Therefore, that makes him cult/SK. I'm leaning cult because he's quite adamant that he doesn't think there is one. Does that clear it up a little?

So yes, he's scummy because of his claim but he CAN'T be scum(again IMHO) so that makes him a 3rd party.

As for who I suspect and who I want to lynch? Right now, Spyrex. K7's a close second because of his action and his subsequent target(not to mention his lurking to add to that). But Spyrex is also my top because of his recent OMGUS kick which is definitely usually something scum resort to(or newbies but he's said multiple times that while he only has a few games under his belt he knows what he's doing so I'm not letting him use the newbie card).

[Muerrto]

1

To be short, this game has me quite lost.

2

And normally the cult can kill OR recruit.

3

Spyrex goes down in my book as #1 suspect for a cult. Makes sense too since 2 french taunters, 1 scum, 1 town, would be insanely weird.

4

K7's action on PF makes sense but IM using his action(confirmed) doesn't. Could scum have a role blocker? Yes. Would scum pick IM to block over all the other choices available since everyone had claimed day 1 already? No. Just no.

5

Don't like K7 or Spyrex.

6

The rest is just lurker hunting which I normally like but with a growing cult and multiple scum running around I think lurker hunting is a good way to make the town lose quickly.

So, down the list.
1.) For you being lost, you've definitely had opinions up to this point - the "I'm confused" doesn't jive with the focus you've had on K7.

2.) Again, since I'm apparently soo new, I decided to ask the wiki. Lets see if there's any chance of ambiguity this time: (Just posting one spot to save space)

Cults generally do not have a killing ability.

Why are you, again, lauding this (which if it is true is an exception) as the norm? I dont think at this point either of us can trust one another, so I'll ask the people this - find 5 or 10 games with cult, and see how many actually can kill OR recruit.

3.) Why would a cult have a taunter versus the town having one? If you had said you thought I was just lying, sure, but why is one of the cases above more valid than the other? Hell, even the I'm bussing a scum buddy makes more sense than that.

4.) WIFOM at its finest. How many actual roles did we have claimed at the end of Day 1? I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure only DBE and I had fullclaimed and Ironman was the only non-PR to claim (Bruce and Albatross were givens by their PR) so, again, why push so hard for the scum NOT having roleblocked him?

5.) Again, this comes up later - you mention K7 and I in the same breath and, of course, in a negative fashion. The fact that I was not on your scumlist still makes this stand out.

6.) Again Again, this comes up later - you say lurker hunting is bad but your suspicion list consists mostly of lurkers.

1. Um..reading my earlier posts about multiple people claiming and me having to make some kind of graph to show it all doesn't sound like I'm a bit jumbled? Is there a reason I'm not allowed to be a little lost like any other player? What part of this makes you think it's contrived? What part doesn't match with my views of K7?

2. Where the hell did you find that in the Wiki? Any cult game I've EVER played in they can kill or recruit. I just recently played in a game with FOUR cults and no scum. Believe me, there's a large difference between the two. But I say AGAIN, drop it. This is mafia theory and has no place in the game. You think you're right, I think I'm right. WTF does that have to do with anything? Of course the cult is anti-town so it doesn't matter what the hell you wanna call them. In fact, the fact you KEEP dwelling on this and NOW are trying to make a case on me off it is one of the reasons I highly suspect you. There's just no reason to keep going on and on about this.

3. How are you confirmed as a taunter? In fact, you said you targetted Strapp who said she targetted you already. I see no taunt there. You keep acting like claiming means you're confirmed which is ridiculous. This has nothing to do with your ability, it has to do with your name. I ask again to everyone, have you ever seen a theme game with two people with the same name?

4. I'm not. I'm saying it's a possibility, I have all game. But if you combine K7's 'target' and his lurking, lack of content etc. why is it so amazing I find him scummy? In fact, several others put K7 on their list. Why are you so focused on me putting him on my list? Interesting...Simply reinforcing my suspiscions of you.

5. AGAIN, I don't think you're SCUM. I think you're anti-town!!! If YOU don't see a difference I'm sorry. But WTF does that have to do with me? Why would I list you as scum when I don't think you're scum???? And why do you keep harping on it repeatedly?

6. And your list contains me with strickly OMGUS reasons(in fact you admitted the OMGUS). Your other reasons are because I suspect K7, but so do alot of other people. So how does that make me scummy and not others? Your points just don't add up.


Half your points are mafia theory and the rest are a mix of OMGUS and points that apply to nearly everyone currently in the game. Is this your entire case?

[Muerrto]

Sigh this back and forth is pointless but you seem to enjoy arguing.

1.) Its not simply "I'm confused." Its, I'm confused, but due to the interplay between these players I am convinced player X is scum that makes the confused part seem contrived.

Where did I say I'm convinced? I'm not even voting you or K7 at this time. Like I said, some people are more careful with their vote than others and without K7 making any further comment I'm not about to place my vote on him.

And just because I think you're cult doesn't mean I'm ready to vote you either. I don't like your claim, period. You're not gonna get anything better than that. Have you really done anything overtly scummy? No. Have I EVER seen a duplicate claim in any theme game I've ever played? No.

3.) I am NOT confirmed as the taunter. Your posts about it are "two taunters don't make sense." If you do not think there are two taunters, say I am lying and go for it. Dont talk out both sides at the same time.

Where am I talking out both sides? I've said your claim is bogus since the very start of day 2. I've not felt like lynching you for it because there were other more worthy candidates(IM, now K7) but I don't buy your claim, period. Haven't since DBE's was revealed.

4.) Where have you said that a roleblock was a real possibility? Hell, I dont care about the push on K7 by you - its the method of it and the fact you still haven't voted. You've been pushing this "I dont like X or Y" but yet never voting for either.

Again, I guard my vote till I'm sure. I also didn't vote DBE till I was sure. I also didn't vote IM till I was sure. Some people like to throw theirs around, some don't. There are several people not currently voting. Have you questioned them?

As for where I said the roleblock was a possibility? Several times. I'll quote later if you want me to but you can read back just as easily. Have I said I buy it? No. But I HAVE said it's a possibility every single time.

5.) This must be a problem in our semantic debate. However, I still find a huge issue with someone asking for scum suspects and, assuming the scum != cult, at the minimum at that point saying "I would still rather lynch SpyreX because I think he is cult." Pushing and pushing and not putting down a vote or doing anything about it is shady.

Ignoring this. Explained it multiple times.

6.) It is not OMGUS reasons. If it was any other damn player that was saying "I dont like Player X, I dont like Player X, Players A, B, C are my suspects" I'd have done the exact same thing - the fact it was ME made me see it quicker because, like everyone, I tend to pay attention when its my name mentioned.

Break that habit. Town vote town, town lynch town, just as easily as scum lynch town and town lynch scum(and scum lynch scum etc). Because someone's attacking you does not make them scum.

Answer me this. You're not Spyrex. You're another player. Spyrex counter claims DBE with the same role name(possibly different abilities we don't know since DBE could've lied about that). DBE comes up with the role she claimed. You now automatically buy Spyrex's claim of the exact same name as scum? If you said yes...I'm not sure how we can go any further with this discussion. Remember, 3rd person, you don't know your role.

I'll respond to the rest tonight. OMW to work.

[Muerrto]

As scum? Yes - I could see a scum partner bussing another.

Even though DBE wasn't under fire at that time? Bussing seemed unneccessary. The only way I'll think you're on DBE's side is if you claim it or flip it. Sorry, but that was not bussing.

Now that's also good for you since it means you're either town or other. I'm not voting you because as PF said, the only thing is the claim. You've not really done anything scummy. I'd keep an open mind in the future about ideas about other factions present etc since otherwise it looks like you're inside one, but the claim is the only thing bothering me about you and it will till you flip.

[Muerrto]

@Muerto,

could you respond to this:

hmm... so you think he has a good chance of being cult (because he doesn't think there is one), but otherwise don't suspect him considering he isn't scummy compared to those you earlier mentioned.
Is that what you are saying Muerto?

I can see why Muerto's comments have come off as somewhat contradictory. Since Muerto wants to lynch the cult, it would make sence he would want to vote for and scumhunt someone who has a good chance of being cult. I think this is the conection SpyeX is making. Muerto, do you see you previous suspects as having a good chance of being in a cult? Do you want to lynch cult or scum(Mafia, SK, etc) first or does it not matter to you who goes first?

I already did but sure. I just answered the first one a second ago to Spyrex. It's all about his claim. I just don't buy it. I've never seen a dup claim in a theme game...ever. I won't ever buy it till I see it.

As for the second, right now I wanna see others scum hunting who haven't been really. Some people have yet to post their lists so far as I can tell. I don't trust Spyrex, but it's not LYLO and I'm not gonna lynch him because of his claim at this time. Not to mention I have no support for it so it's simply a waste of the town's time.


And as for my participation. I don't think I've lurked in the least. I've contributed o the discussion quite a bit and posted pretty consistently. But in elemental I had a job where I could access this site during work. Now I don't. I check the board when I get home, sometimes in the morning too. That's about it. But I'd say I've posted at least every other day except weekends. I think calling my participation into play is a pretty low blow since I don't feel it's been lacking. And voting me for it?

That's just weak.

[Muerrto]

EBWOP: Oh, and I ran the town in elemental because I knew I was invincible after I had to claim so until I started pulling suspiscion I had no fear (untargetable at night townie). I usually lead the discussion in newbie games as well but here it's not the same case. I'm obviously not invincible(although it'd be nice) and the players here are a bit more seasoned so I'm content running with the pack rather than heading it up. But to say I'm falling behind the pack is false.

[Muerrto]

Umm... this:

I know I was in BM's elementla mafia (with four cults) and the cult could either recruit or kill each night. SO that's one example. And I know Muerrto was in that game with me, so that's probably why he brought it up.

BUT I do think Muerrto has been much less helpful and involved in this game than he was in elemental mafia. Which makes me suspicious of him.

I still support a chenhsi lynch, but I am also suspicious of Muerrto for his difference in playstyle from elemental, and the arguments he is using against spyrex.

unvote; vote muerrto

Is justification for this:

So nobody else wants to lynch muerrto dead?

How?

[Muerrto]

And as for my participation. I don't think I've lurked in the least. I've contributed to the discussion quite a bit and posted pretty consistently. But in elemental I had a job where I could access this site during work. Now I don't. I check the board when I get home, sometimes in the morning too. That's about it. But I'd say I've posted at least every other day except weekends. I think calling my participation into play is a pretty low blow since I don't feel it's been lacking. And voting me for it?

That's just weak.

@Muerto,

is the bolded part suppose to be directed at me or someone else? Because it feels almost like you're adressing me since you don't mention anyone's name and you did quote and answer me with the first parts.[/quote]

Generally everyone but more Elvis who voted me.

[Muerrto]

I fail at quotes

[Muerrto]

I have watched the video in full. My head offically hurts now. I am deffinately not looking for the black knight.
Shaft.ed you are a sick and twisted man.

Wait. You're trying to avoid the over zealous knight? I think I know who you are and there's no way someone would false claim what I'd consider a pretty minor role.

And yes, the Black Knight was a bad guy altho hilarious.

In light of the claim I could vote Chensi. Especially since being immune to kills twice with no other powers is strange to be sure.

I'd like a VC first tho.

[Muerrto]

Bless you. I am confused more because I forgot about certain things in the movie. So now I wonder if that overzelous knight is evil and the black knight is good because didn't he stop the overzelous knight or do I have the wrong movie?

Wrong movie. The over zealous knight was a main char and good. Then again, so's your role most likely if I'm thinking of the right scene.

[Muerrto]

Checking in before the weekend so I don't get prodded over it.

Are we still waiting on Chensi? I'm not so sure about the Gurgi thing. Possible the mod was just being lenient?

Still don't like TSPN assuming the bridgekeeper thing confirms Spyrex and still don't like Spyrex. Connection?

Other than that the game's kind of crawling.

I'm going for my Net+ certification over the next 2-3 weeks(WISH ME LUCK!) so I'll try to contribute as much as possible but if you expect me to do so on the level of the elemental game you're sadly mistaken. Check my recent activity in my other games and compare to here. Some things are just more important than mafia scum. Sorry.

[Muerrto]

Don't have much time to post till later just popping in to say the bridge keeper targetted me:

Can you talk at night? No.

Have you sent in a nightkill? No.

Was chenshi's alignment the same as yours? No.


Kind of some weird questions and slightly repetitive. Also, PF, STILL no cigs? Man...

Will re-read later and post.

[Muerrto]

Ding, ding, and we have a wagoneer. I was debating about whether to work on a case against you or Muerrto, but I think with muerrto's revelation of being visited by bridgekeeper I'll make you the target of my scumhunt today.

Um...2 votes is a wagon when it takes 6 to lynch? This post sounds a tad over defensive to me.

I'm gonna try a re-read er...skim tonight and post some more thoughts.

[Muerrto]

Over defensiveness is by no means a scum tell in my book. Are you saying you consider it one? If so why? Would you join his wagon for that reason?

Did I?

I realized that I think that the most likely person in either case (Spyrex targetting him or him targetting spyrex) is the same person: Muerrto.

Think about it. Muerrto thought Spyrex was cult. If Muerrto is mafia, he wants to get rid of the cult ASAP. So he wants to kill Spyrex. Also, Spyrex was voting Muerrto yesterday at some point, I think. Which would make Muerrto want to eliminate him. Muerrto had the most reason of anyone to want Spyrex dead.

BUT ALSO, Muerrto would make sense as Spyrex's choice to target last night since he was suspicious of Muerrto.

Either way, I think Muerrto makes the most sense as the person most likely to target spyrex, or the person Spyrex was most likely to target.

Other's already said horrible this WIFOM is so I won't repeat it. Didn't you try to lynch me yesterday? Did you kill Spyrex to frame me? If so that's a pretty poor move since speculating on the kill is always WIFOM. Still, pointing it out like that knowing it's WIFOM worries me a little.

FoS: Elvis

Doubtful. Could be a bastard mod thing where the person I'm avoiding is a good guy who kills me, but I can't see it as on my read of my role it seems he is looking for me. I saw Muertto got the idea, but I dont' know if that is because he knows the movie or because he is the role I'm avoiiding.

Naw. I'm not the one but I think I know who it is(I'd assume the prince) and I think he's a red herring just like the cult(since Spyrex wasn't in it). I'm just not seeing enough collaboration for their to be a cult since it's so late in the game.

Also, does someone wanna come forward and say who targetted me last night?(not the bridge keeper, someone else) Do it now or I'll assume you're scum/cult.

[Muerrto]

Muerrto, you asked who visited you last night...you know the BK visited you, and I dont leave any trace of having visited...so did lancelot leave something or give you a message or something? How did you know someone else visited you?

Good question, Muerrto please answer.

Giving me time would be better than repeating what he already said just an hour ago.

And I can't answer. Sorry. I just knew someone besides the BK targetted me. I thought Farside WAS Lancelot. She said she was a knight didn't she? I need to re-read apparently I'm lost again.

[Muerrto]

Ah...my bad yeah Farside is either a party goer or the prince or some such. So who the heck targetted me?

[Muerrto]

Vote: Against massclaim

Big time. Biiiiig time.

[Muerrto]

I can't claim. I can't elaborate.

And this late in the game we'd be seeing more collaboration if there was a cult. With 2 taunters I'd say we have a good chance of the cult thing being a red herring. The mod is having a blast messing with us.

Also, who targetted me I ask again.

[Muerrto]

No. And it's not mod killery.

At the risk of this counting as my punishment it's vanillery and yes I've seen that penalty for roles alot.

And if I become vanilla for that I hate you.

And you should KNOW I'm not vanilla now since I asked who targetted me besides the bridge keeper.

[Muerrto]

You seem to think the cult recruiter is a red herring. You know that makes you look like the cult recruiter right?

Even though I was the one who was mentioning the cult yesterday constantly? That's some heavy WIFOM. When Spyrex died and wasn't even cult let alone the recruiter AND he was a second taunter I decided the mod was messing with us.

Also, if I'm the recruiter, you should expect my recruits to try and debunk the idea and protect me from a lynch, yes?

There's just not been enough teamwork between anyone to show evidence of a cult this late in the game.

Aside from your suspicion Cult is red herring and what went on with your role and whatever you really are, Have you got any other concerns against the mass claiming?

Not really. Most everyone has already claimed/soft claimed in some way or another. Mass claiming won't really change much except outing the machine that goes bing(someone said a doctor possibly?) and the bridge keeper(which would suck I think).


@Elvis: So you're worse than an SK and want us to let you live? Let's get this straight:

1. An SK has to get rid of everyone. You simply have to kill Farside(and whoever else, assuming there is anyone else) and you can win with any side.

2. You didn't target Farside last night even though you sound like you know the movie and Farside said she had to 'avoid an overzealous knight'? I'm calling BS on that. Glad you targetted me though.

3. I don't like leaving a claimed SK alive for the town to 'direct' let alone leaving someone even more dangerous than an SK alive.

Vote: Elvis

No brainer. You're a claimed SK with an easier win condition. Say wha?

[Muerrto]

I'm not an SK. I fail to see how I am worse than an SK.

An SK kills at night and only wins when everyone but him is dead.

Your role(as you explained it) kills at night and wins whenever cult/scum/town wins as long as Farside is dead.

How are you not worse than an SK? You're an SK with a much, much easier win condition.

Even though it's your role I fail to see how you deny that.

[Muerrto]

I can win with any group, so I'm not a threat to them. That's what's good about me.

Um... so as town we're sposed to assume that you want to win with town and not scum/cult?

It's the exact opposite. You're a threat to all of them. With a NK ability you have power to chose who will win and since it doesn't matter to you who wins how can we possibly trust you?

Your arguments are obviously geared to saving your own skin but they have to at least make sense.

[Muerrto]

Albatross!

I like a Muerrto lynch also now. Hi Cult Recruiter!

Albatross!

Um..Evlis is a claimed SK, and I'M the one yesterday who kept bringing up the cult. In fact, most everyone yesterday kept saying they didn't think there was a cult. I was the only one pushing it. So I pushed my own death repeatedly all day? I've heard of bussing, but bussing myself?

Also, if I was a cult recruiter, why would I refuse to claim? I could claim any number of python characters and be quite sure I wouldn't be countered and yet be main stream enough for it to be believable(the fat guy in the restaraunt in the meaning of life, bigus dickus, etc.). Refusing to claim would be death sentence.

I'm not claiming because it kills my role. If you guys make me do it I'm gonna be ticked, and so is someone else. Also, if I'm the cult recruiter then how did I see Lancelot target me and yet I'm not dead?

He wasn't blocked because I saw him(well more importantly saw someone, that's why I asked who targetted me). And if I'm a NK immune cult recruiter the mod is a sadist.

Think this through a bit more before you force my claim for bad reasons.

[Muerrto]

I shouldn't have to tell an experienced player this:

there's WIFOM and then there's common sense.

Everything about mafia is always WIFOM and always a a guess on what most likely occured. Does that make it always wrong to assume something happened one way or the other? No. If you go through a night without a kill most times you usually assume a protection occured. Is that WIFOM? Of course, but it's also common sense.

My last post didn't use WIFOM, it used common sense. Pushing the cult's existence when no one else was wouldn't be wise in the least if I was the recruiter. When Spyrex died, my main cult suspect, and he was neither cult nor recruiter AND he was a second taunter as he claimed, I decided the mod was simply screwing with us.

Same thing with my claim. Refusing to claim is a death sentence. Why do it? Because I CAN'T claim. If I were the cult recruiter I'd simply false claim and be done with it. Why avoid the claim entirely? WIFOM? Or common sense?

Also, my role can explain why I A. was able to see someone, yet not know who, target me last night and B. survived it. If I were a recruiter not only do I have to be a NK immune recruiter, but why would I even bring attention to the fact someone targetted me? Before Elvis said anything I said someone targetted me last night besides the BK and asked them to come forward.

And finally, if you're assuming the BK is town, which most people are, then my answers to him/her confirm I can't be the recruiter. Had I lied the BK'er would have either come forward by now or at least subtly pushed for my lynch because of my answers.

I'll claim if too many people want me to and it'll explain why I couldn't, why I saw someone target me, and why I said someone else would be ticked if I did. But there's no WIFOM in either of these 2 posts, just common sense. It simply doesn't make sense for me to be cult on so many levels.

[Muerrto]

Albatross!

"If I was cult would I..." = WIFOM. And not town.

Albatross!

I'll wait for your large post so you can make more sense. Did you even read my last post? I hate when people throw around terms like WIFOM where they don't apply...

[Muerrto]

Does anyone want to admit to being recruited?
Well it's worth a shot to ask. Sigh. I don't know why but I get the impression for the LG and Muerrto talks that Muerrto isn't the recruiter. However the vote on EK troubles me. I don't like her alive either however I would rather lynched scum at the moment. I'm under the impression that scum or a cult recruiter has more to fear from EK then I do at the

moment.
FOS muerrto

If you can tell me how a claimed SK who can win with anyone is less of a threat than scum with 2 dead I'll listen...

And I got a 'FoS' for that?

[Muerrto]

Because (1) there could be a cult recruiter no one knows for sure except if anyone was recruited. (2) the mafia would want to see the SK die as that means they could be killed. If the SK can win with any team then her death lynch will come up for sure. No WIFOM on this one. I just don't think she is the lynch today and if their is a cult recruiter then we need to find that person first or one of the recruited and hope they are scum too.
So yes you get an FOS for saying we should lynch the SK instead of seeing if their is a recuiter or looking for scum because guess what if the SK wins with my death she will have problems killing me easily so I'm not worried that should say something.

Ok well that's different. I don't know your role. If you're 'safe' then we'll ignore Elvis for now and hope I guess.

Unvote

If you die Elvis dies next lynch, obviously.

As for who's scum I'm not sure. I'm still quite sure there's no cult and anyone who thinks I'm the recruiter I'd like your list and reasons of my recruits. I'd also like to know why I'm alive even though Elvis tried to kill me and how I saw her coming.

I still don't like leaving a claimed SK alive and I'm not sure I can even link a game where people have done it. I think you're all insane.

[Muerrto]

Gah you wasted your large post and didn't address ME at all!?

Never post in anger man.

[Muerrto]

Not sure who I'd put 2nd. Either K7 or Muerrto
I'm suspicous of Muerrto for being so against a massclaim - but if there is some type of role that could be mod-killed for revealing themselves, then he'd pretty much drop off my list because I haven't seen much else from him that strikes me as scummy.

Not mod kill. Vanillalize(is that a word?)

Gone for the weekend, will comment when I get back.

[Muerrto]

Hmm...I may be ok with claiming now. Not sure yet. Actually, pretty sure I'm ok. I'll think about it today and claim tonight depending on what I decide.

[Muerrto]

Naw I'll be vanilla-ized if I claim(lose all my powers) but yeah I'm not sure my powers are helpful enough to make people keep suspecting me as cult. Altho I

thought

they were earlier before a post but now I'm thinking I'm saving someone else's ass at the expense of my own.

Hm...

Yeah, I'm(or was) the tobacconist:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6D1YI-41ao

Even the same video as yours. You had to ask me directly and you never did. I wasn't allowed to claim or even hint(altho I did slip out a couple):

As to Poker: He probably asked for cigs and matches like in the sketch and ended up saying something about going back to his flat bouncy bouncy. Watch the skit.

@PF+K7: One or both of you just soft claimed, the same thing we told IM NOT to do but he did anyway. Can we PLEASE stop having power roles out themselves?

I'm assuming either K7 tracked you/watched Strapp or you're masons(?) but leaning towards the former.

And PF, you got confirmation it was Elvis who replied or it was 'someone' who replied? Also, was it Elvis or a character name? Seems weird Strapp saw characters and you saw Elvis herself.

@PF: As for the cult being a red herring, possibly. You still haven't found a tobacconist? Do you have to ask in thread or does it only work at night? Do you have to direct your question at the right person at night for it to work? Does your PM say anything?

Also, PF, STILL no cigs? Man...

I'm kind of shocked I didn't get a warning for that one.


I know when someone enters the shop(hence the 'who targetted me?' thing) but not WHO entered(hear the bell over the door I spose). I am(or was) NK immune so nyah Elvis and I still don't like the idea of leaving you alive.

I was holding my claim closely till PF got my hints and asked me but he never did and when he said all it did was make HIM win I was like psh well funk dat. I was getting suspiscion for saving your butt.

Anyway, as for the cult, does anyone's PM say 'unrecruitable'? Don't answer in the thread obviously but in ANY cult game there are roles that are recruitable and roles that are not. I still say there's no cult.

So that's it, I'm vanilla. But I didn't see my role doing anything but hurting me anyway so shrug. Sorry PF, I'll bet $ you're town but it didn't really do me any good to stay quiet and get killed for doing so, sooo..yeah. Sorry again

[Muerrto]

I didn't get a post restriction and I don't have cigarettes either I feel so plain.

Also you were invincible in BM's Elemental game.

EBWOP: Oh, and I ran the town in elemental because I knew I was invincible after I had to claim so until I started pulling suspiscion I had no fear (untargetable at night townie). I usually lead the discussion in newbie games as well but here it's not the same case. I'm obviously not invincible(although it'd be nice) and the players here are a bit more seasoned so I'm content running with the pack rather than heading it up. But to say I'm falling behind the pack is false.

So that statement is crap too.

What would have happened to you if I had gotten my cigs and matches?

I know the answer to that last one and the other statements make me wonder if you are lying.

Well the first was true, I didn't have a post restriction and it looked fun. The second was true somewhat. Asking for cigarettes and matches pegged you as the one who needed me. But are you town? Cult? SK? Who the heck knows. I had to bide my time. Notice I didn't hint anything about the matches till sometime in day 2. When I was quite sure you were town.

The second quote is completely different. In BM's game I was completely invincible because as long as I can get the town to believe my claim I won't be lynched and I'm NK immune.

Here I can't claim. So either I'm NK immune and hide during the day, or I'm vanilla completely. A far cry from BM's game. But with the massclaim push and all the shouts of me being the recruiter I decided I might have to speak up. When you said the matches didn't really do anything but make you win I thought hiding during the day wasn't worth it.


As for what happens? If your PM tells you, props. If you 'think' it makes us masons of a sort I'd semi agree. My PM doesn't say. It says I can give them when asked directly but I'm not allowed to offer them or say who I am in any way(paraphrasing of course).


And as for the rest, mad thanks on the praises of my game play. I've made mistakes before(false claiming doctor against Oman when the real doc DIDN'T protect Oman, the claimed and confirmed cop) and I've had good games too. I don't think I've made too many mistakes this game(except Spyrex) though so I don't see this as being a 'bad player'.

Is going from NK immune to vanilla bad? Yeah. Is going from a semi watcher to vanilla bad? Yeah. Is avoiding a massclaim when people are trying to pin the recruiter on me bad? Yeah. Much worse. I really had no choice. Did I have to do it right then? Naw. Before nightfall? Probably.

[Muerrto]

I wasn't going to push for Muerto lynch today. If he got to night without claiming things would be better. So I wonder if he is claiming to generally help the town or just to trick and or spite me. Why did he not want to wait til nightfall if he was unkillable? Does he remotly think there is a cult that would require a massclaim after all. Does Muerto want everybody to full claim now?

Um.. you guys called a massclaim vote and it passed. The consensus was to mass claim. Me refusing was pulling suspiscion, see Gurgi for one. When you said my staying quiet was basially pointless I decided to save my own skin instead of yours. Makes sense to me.

And I'm the one who went against mass claim, why are you making it sound like I'm telling everyone to mass claim now?

Whereas "because I tell them I don't like that kind of behaviour, I'm unable to block them again" makes little sense. If Azimuth blocks e.g. a cop and 'tells them he doesn't like their behaviour', they will still be a cop the next night, it's not like they've stopped doing it. If Azimuth had said his blocking them vanillaises them, that would make more sense.

Not sure what I think about the God claim but wanted to clear something up. In the movie God appeared to Arthur and Arthur was constantly saying he's sorry and he's not worthy etc. Azimuth is saying the person he targets is awestruck until God tells him not to be and then he can't block them again. So he doesn't tell them to stop being a cop, he tells them to stop graveling and apologising etc.

It's straight out of the movie. Actually the claim sounds like it makes sense but I don't like him lurking until he needs to claim then popping in immediately when it's mentioned and claiming. Shows he was paying attention just not posting. I'm not convinced.

[Muerrto]

No, I'm not saying that. Massclaiming was my idea. From your claim and insistance that cult was a red herring I got the impression you did not want mass claiming to continue. But at the same time I got the impression you felt every body should claim because of the voting. So I was basically wondering what your final opinion there was. Massclaim all or not?

Honestly I'm not sure it'll help do anything but out the bridge keeper and the machine that goes bing. Most everyone else has already either claimed or soft claimed.

I can understand lying if you thought I was scum, but If I were you I would have avoided making that statement during the day at all. I crossed you off my check list simply for that statement. A bunch of people, Internet, Jordan, and Chenshi never acknowledge they had cigs so I never crossed them off til I checked them or they died. If I were you I would have played things like that. And only said I didn't have them if I became certain the Hungarian Tourist was scum. I wouldn't have risked them being town with me and me being made a liar and policy lynched. A player like you surely knows heavily some can cling to lynch all liars.

But I didn't know if you could ask during the day or night or what. I had no idea you had a night action to ask until day 2. I also stand by lynch all liars but in this case where my claim kills my role, I felt it was necessary at the time.

Do you have any other powers though? I was kind of a weak tracker(is there some other name for my role I'm missing?) and NK immune. I had some pretty decent powers but at a downside of not being able to claim. If your power is just to ask I'd say that's balanced.

Muerrto, Your video is exactly like mine when the Taunters had 2 slightly different videos that showcased the same character. Either that is some bullshit or Shaft.ed be crazy! There were a bunch of different filmings of the Hungarian Tourist Sketch. Finding a simular yet different video to signify and or showcase tobocconist was something I expected.

I actually didn't watch the taunter video's(or any others for that matter). I've seen all Python 17 million times. I own the DVD set of the episodes *shrug*. I watched yours because you were my counterpart and noticed we had the same video, even the same html, the exact same video. I also hinted at seeing the video recently when I said the part about 'bouncy bouncy' and said to watch the skit.

Because I had more than one victory option, I thought some red herring may exist for me. I am still considering that there may be a red herring for me and you are scum fake claiming, so whether we talk at night or not I guess we are practically unconfirmed masons or neighbors on role standards alone for the time being. Tobacconist or not just like Farside your actions can't be seen or confirmed so by those standards you are candidate for cult recruiter, but I am really leaning away from you being it based on your overall play. You are right about the level of doubt involved with you being a recruiter. I'd sooner believe you were a recruit because of the big opinion change. That or I'm reading you poorly which I certainly hope I am.

The opinion change was simply due to Spyrex being revealed, nothing more. Two players with the same role name is unheard of. It's insane. And 1 scum and 1 town?! Shafted is crazy.

Also I looked back at your general play. You were firm on Darla lying, but you weren't firmly on Chenshi's wagon. You never voted him. You replaced into the game and I doubt Mod would let scum replacements talk to their buds during the day even if they replaced. So I wonder if you could have potentially been scum and not known she was a taunter. That may be a bit of a reach but its not something I'm ruling out. I see it as a possibility. After all a red herring role works for an awesome fake claim. I've done things like claim those before as scum.

Even if I didn't know Darla was a taunter, why would I jump in and firmly side against her? And Chensi was simply a bad player. The fact he was scum doesn't change that. He could've just as easily been town judging by his meta. He lurks and doesn't really contribute. That's Chensi. I don't like lurkers. I dislike lynching them even more unless they've actually made scummy moves. Besides, I was pretty solely on Spyrex that whole day.

All the inconsistances and problems I have pointed out so far make me think you can potentially be mafia or cult. I won't confirm you BUT you have given me enough reason and doubt to believe you have at least a chance at being who you really say you are. So I will indeed forgo your lynching for today, just like i was originally going to before you claimed. Effectivly your claim did nothing to keep you safe. Had you kept silent and I checked you I would have confirmed you tomorrow. And had I been wrong about confirming you (You were tobacconist and also scum) then it wouldn't have matter to me since I'd be winning with you after all that anyway.

I disagree. That's your opinion of my lynching status today but it seemed from other's opinions and posts that I was pretty heavily under suspiscion of being the recruiter.

Also keep in mind that you've been confirmed for me since you breadcrumbed(if you're scum you're incredibly good at hiding it).

I began to suspect Massclaiming was unnecessary all too late. I think only those that still want to claim, among the unclaimed should at this stage. If Azimuth is cult recruiter then it would be totally unecessary. The idea of massclaiming was totally mine. it is pratically my fault if all Muerto says is true. I accept responsibility for it, hate me all you want for it should more go wrong. When I believed it had become unecessary to use to lynch scum and or cult I tried to generally guide things away from it happening. "Have only the scumiest claim first and today to keep things secret. And have others claim tomorrow or later" I believe I said something simular to that. Because I did try to guide things in the other direction I am just a little erked when you (Muerto) made all my actions in vain when you chose to claim and said...

I was holding my claim closely till PF got my hints and asked me but he never did and when he said all it did was make HIM win

I was like psh well funk dat.

I was getting suspiscion for saving your butt.

The funk dat makes me think you did do it all to spite me alone. and attackes made to spite someone alone can come off as personal and striking delicate nerves.

Naw. Nothing personal man, was being funny. It wasn't spite it was self preservation. Your win condition doesn't actually help the town so prime directive 2 kicked in and I saved my own arse. As for the massclaim, I don't think anyone else should now. It's already narrowed down pretty bad to only a few left and if the bridgekeeper or the machine ends up either claiming OR not claiming they'll be outed if they're not already.

@Anyone,

Elvis didn't have a Red herring. There is a chance I don't have a red herring either. There were roles complementing us after all. So would that mean cult recruiter is garaunteed in order to complement luigi? Or would that make it possibly Red Herring?

I just don't see enough teamwork for a cult, period. Cults require teamork even more than mafia and they reflect teamwork more as well.

I got some problems with Muerto because of all I mentioned, but I am not 100% on him being tobacconist and or him being scum. So I won't be lynching him now since he has given enough of a defence to make me think otherwise of him. I am still down for an Azimuth Lynch if he don't respond to our accusations with something really good. If i think of more questions I'll bring them up. If Muerto has any for me, he is more than welcome to ask them. He has the right to think I am scum assuming he actually has a case. No one is trying to offend another person here afterall.

Naw, you're obv town, have been for a while. As for Azimuth, I don't like his obv lurking but I'm actually pretty convinced his claim is legit. I guess that could make him cult but who's he teamed with? He hasn't taken anyone's side all game really.

[Muerrto]

@Muerto,

Muerto Question time

1) You said you could see those that target you. Did you see their player name, their character name, or something else?
2) You said you loose the watching and the nk immunity. Do you loose anything else? You are still called a Tobacconist I assume.
3) If I do choose to target you tonight, will you attempt to offer me cigs and a book of matches like I described before night 3? Call it curiosity. I got no clue if I'll still win and be able to get them. Got no clue if we become Masons or if nothing at all happens. Since I didn't loose my skills I see no reason not to consider trying it and seeing what happens.
4) Role attractors, role randomizers, and tons of other things out there may exist which make me think it is still possible for something useful to come from me targeting you if you are truthful. All that oposition in my path finding you and you claiming can muck it all up? I don't think so. Something has got to happen. This idea sound reasonable to you?
5) Did you suspect anyone other than SpyreX of possibly being cult before during the game?

Dammit. How the heck did these get left out when I posted last time? They were on my notepad document. Grr...short version.

1. I couldn't see anyone. I know when someone enters the shop as it were but I don't know who. That's why I asked.

2. I assume I'd keep my role name but yes, I lose all powers.

3. I assume you'll get the same result you got from the others but you're welcome to try.

4. You can try but my PM is pretty clear. I lost everything. Think of it this way. You just have to find me to win. That would be like the easiest win condition ever if I could claim, yes? He had to balance it somehow. Honestly, not being able to claim was pretty cool but pretty frustrating since your role became obvious to me by like your first post.

5. No. I just couldn't see there being 2 taunters. Shafted is crazy.


If I left anything else out let me know. I hope not but apparently my cut/paste skills are lacking.

[Muerrto]

Yes. And it sounds like she 'hides' behind someone each night which is why Elvis couldn't simply target her to kill her. Nice role. And obv confirmed. PF? What was my response?

[Muerrto]

@Muerto,

Paraphase!

1) What did you get from me?
2) What did you try to say to me that became:
"The whiff between your legs attracts the vicinity of canines" and another sentence I ain't translated yet?
3) Did you actually say 2 sentences to me or did my phrasebook just give me 2 for a reason I ain't figured out yet?

I wanted you to say: "Yondalavasa gredenwee strevenca!" or however that is spelled in hungarian. In the video you say that to me and you definatly did not say that phrase so I am not ready to call you tobabconist.

Lol um you expected me to say what? You said your cucumber had run out of oil and could I have another one. I said I don't have a cucumber but here's a zucchini =p I might've used a comma between the two since that's correct grammar so I guess it could've come thru as 2 sentences *shrug*

[Muerrto]

at any rate Muerto,

when you spoke with the bridge keeper why didn't you follow your own ideas and consider lying?

It was only a thought and a question when I posted it as to if others thought it was a good idea. In the movie, those that lie are killed. That's a pretty gutsy 'consider' and not worth the risk IMO.

[Muerrto]

Videos = Different. Thank you Farside

Strikes on Muerto:

Also, PF, STILL no cigs? Man...

I'm kind of shocked I didn't get a warning for that one.

He would get a warning for that compared to this?

I didn't get a post restriction and I don't have cigarettes either I feel so plain.

I am starting to think I should lynch Muerto now and forget about testing anything tonight with Gurgi. I am thinking you forgot about lying and tried to make a BS claim out of what you remembered.

Have you watched the videos? Elivs is Lancelot, he's a main character. Shafted could pick ANYTHING for his video. How many scenes is the tobacconist in?....*crickets* yeah, that's what I thought.

And the line about not having cigarettes is the OPPOSITE of claiming, why would I get a warning for that?

Your points make no sense.

vote: Muertto
At of everyone I just don't get why would you claimed. No one pressured you. I felt either you are the internet as scum. I see a possible distancing attempt with the bridge keeper comments.

What?! Everyone was calling me recruiter and several people were ready to lynch me. The second I found out my role didn't really help me in the least, just made PF win =p I claimed to get the wagon off me. Sadly it seems not to have worked.

The idea of a tobacconist being unnightkillable and vanilaizeable don't make sence either. Can't say I'll lynch him for those reasons alone but would like to know how they make sence with a tobacconist.

@Muerto,

did you see Strappado watch you or do you only detect people trying to kill you like Elvis did?

Watcher doesn't do anything to me so I assume that's why I didn't see her. I saw the bridgekeeper and Elvis. Actually I SAW neither but I knew it was the BK b/c of the questions and I knew someone else visited me. So what role am I? The blind guy from Life of Brian?

As for the vanillaize, that's to balance you. If I could've just claimed tobacconist that's an auto win for you immediately. How is that balanced at all? That's like playing a jester and there's a lyncher that wants the jester lynched and you both know and you only need 1 vote. Jester: 'I wanna be lynched' Lyncher: 'I need to lynch you'. Awesome, we both win. I fail to see how you don't realise how unbalanced your role would be if you KNEW who the tobacconist was.

If someone else dies, we have one suspect (Muerrto) cleared, and can still afford a mislynch, so again it looks good for us.

This assumes there's no cult, of course. Which is why Gurgi or Muerrto should be the first lynch, as they could be either scum if there's no cult, or cult recruiter if there is a cult.

Setting up multiple days of lynches is always bad. I'm still trying to figure out where the holes in this plan lie(like if you're scum or even worse, cult, for instance) but I really don't like they way you've got the next couple days planned out.

[Muerrto]

Not responding to the video thing. Basically you're saying, even though he already had a tobacconist video for you, he should've purposely given me a different video because that would make more sense.

Is that really what you're saying?

The point I am trying to make is that you were afraid at one point and not at the other when you significantly mentioned cigs both times in manors not identical to claiming. I see the actions as simply both just mentioning cigs. The second one in no way claims or makes me think you had cigs so you had no reason to be afraid during just that one. You should have not been afraid at all or been afraid both times. I see it as an inconsistancy.

So, I said I didn't have cigs, the opposite of claiming, and I was supposed to be worried about getting in trouble for hinting or claiming, but when I said 'STILL no cigs? man' basically smacking you in the face that I'm the one to ask I'm not supposed to be worried.

Is that really what you're saying?

At first I thought you could claim and I would just have trouble getting the materials based on how I asked my question. I mean let's face it, did it sound at all like I was asking for cigerettes and matches? This phrasebook is really messed up. And heck in the video itself you did claim. You say "This is the tobabcconists" I respond with "Ahhh! I will not buy this tobacconists, it is scratched". You should be able to claim with no effect. This idea makes very logical sence when you consider the sketch itself.

I assumed I was night kill immune because of the cop in the sketch actually. He comes and arrests you before I can get beat up(although I get punched once).

but going all vanilla and loosing all your 'personal' skills at your own whim with just a claim feels like a poor way to dismantle and unbalance a setup in a heart beat. You were able to make both me and myself useless in a second, and you know if you would gain anything for having me find you? I get to win and you get zip?

This paragraph right here says 'I'm mad because you got rid of my win condition', period. I understand. Sorry, those are the breaks. It didn't do me any good to get lynched as a cult recruiter just so I could make you win. MY PM says nothing about winning when you get them so since YOURS did I assume I get jack squat for doing it. Maybe we'd be masons but whatever. Weak.

Mafia are suppose to be able to kill any power role in any setup barring special circumstances. How does a Tobacconist make sence as unkillable in anyway, he is human ain't he?

Um...how many games have you played? There are alot of kill immune roles out there. In fact, serial killers are often immune to at least the first if not all night kills.

I could see cult immune to nk. It would be powerful, but not unheard of. Muertto stated that he knew people visited him. Did he ever answer if he knew how many people visited him?

Yes. I did. I saw 2 people visit me. 1 was the bridge keeper obv since I got my quiz PM'ed to me. 1 I didn't know so I asked who did it.

[Muerrto]

But there are some others things I'll ask now aswell
1) You have no powers now. You got nothing when I saw you last night. Correct?
2) What made you think Azimuth's claim was real?
3) Who do you consider is scummy right now?

I got your message about your cucumber running out of oil.

It was too wild to make up. I can list a million Monty Python characters and never list 'God'. I'd look for a fake claim to be something a bit more mainstream, yet not mainstream enough to be already taken. His power also made sense.

K7 is my biggest suspect. His 'meta' about never bussing only supports the fact he put Darla and TSPN as neutral and no read. Chensi got himself lynched for lurking and being scummy, K7 didn't buss him. And anyone saying 'I never do this...' is currently doing it.

I've also suspected him for a while and said as such.

[Muerrto]

God damn quota exceeded. Short version:

I didn't explain my role or justify it. Read my claim. I answered PF's questions when he had them and he had ALOT so it may have appeared as such.

I claimed because the massclaim vote passed and several people thought I was the recruiter. Had I continued saying 'I can't claim' I'd have been lynched, period.

[Muerrto]

We discussed my claim for several pages....

[Muerrto]

Weekend. Won't be reading or posting. It's not LYLO so if you guys really wanna lynch me then whatever. I claimed so that wouldn't happen and I guess it backfired =p

I hope there's not a cult.

[Muerrto]

The plan's fine, even though I think it'll kill a few townies. I don't personally suspect LG in the least. If Imagordan, K7, Strapp, or the Net are scum this plan is kind of dangerous.

Also remember that just because you plan out several nights actions in advance doesn't mean it'll happen that way. People can talk during the day and change things.

And of course if the scum's a blocker the plan is f$cked.

[Muerrto]

Also it is either you or LG being lynched today. I don't see a case on anyone else. Why would you think the Net or Imag as scum?
What about K-7 or Strapp do you find as scum?

Um since I know I'm not scum and I don't suspect LG, why is it strange I suspect others more?

Jordan lurked and barely contributed and Imagordan's ability is useless and unprovable.

Net being a plain 'doc' when there's tons of other crazy roles is suspiscious.

Strapp's and K7's ability could easily be a scum ability just as bridge keeper was.

[Muerrto]

If it's translated wrong like the skit then it won't matter. Since cigs translated to cucumber I tried to translate it back the same way. But if you wanna ask me I'll just offer you cigs this time no matter what you say.

[Muerrto]

I have no clue. Did you ask everyone the same thing? Because so far we've all got a different message so Shafted's definitely effing with you.

[Muerrto]

@Muerto,

in Elemental Mafia a few players self voted and you believed they were town for some reasons. You were right on Andycyca but wrong on Cavebear. What do you think the chances are of Gurgi being town or being scum.

It depends on the circumstances. Sometimes voting yourself is town and sometimes not. Andy thought he

hammered

himself. Big difference. I can't possibly see a scenario where scum hammering themselves would be advantageous. Voting? Yes.

But no, I don't think Gurgi's scummy, haven't all game. I think it's weird the roles weren't randomized since LG getting the position he was doing in the last game is obviously not a coincidence but he hasn't played scummy. Despite having an insanely nasty PR he's contributed regularly. I'd much rather vote for K7 who hasn't even come close to participating.

[Muerrto]

Lol never seen someone so hung up on their win condition. When a lyncher watches their target get night killed they don't give up =p

[Muerrto]

My claim was and is the tobacconist. I already explained why I wasn't killed.

As for PF, all I can say is

Vote: PF

obviously. I didn't target the Internet. You gunned for me yesterday then with the plan in place you set me up for a mislynch. Nicely done and appears to be working.

[Muerrto]

Yeah, after Imagordan's plan I knew I was dead. Plus bad luck on Elvis targetting TSPN.

Oh, and you all almost bought my safeclaim 'Tobacconist' =)

Awesome game people. Sorry for yankin your chain PF.

[Muerrto]

Muerrto: now knowing you are scum, was our little spat put out of context some or is it time for our question thread about the definition of scum?

Lol cult =/= scum. But I knew the cult was a red herring since Tobacconist was too and it didn't seem like anyone was teaming up.