Open 775: Hard-Boiled Eggs [Game Over]

[72offsuit]

First is the Worst

VOTE: Tet

[72offsuit]

The early bird may get the worm,
But the Early worm gets eaten

[72offsuit]

So are there any established strategies for this setup or what do we do? I can already think of 1 potential strategy giving it a quick glance but I wanted to ask those more experienced what they thought.

Pfffft, I love how this seems both humble and arrogant at the same time xD
If you have any ideas, just say them

reading through role PMs, we should all hypo as hider with a target, or just have real hider claim sometime d1 and lead.

Lol. This gives off townie vibes.

DK: +1 No-red-lights-on-the-drive-home-from-work

(meta shamelessly stolen off hectic)

[72offsuit]

FoS Alora and Allomancer because now if i want to use the abbreviation Alo it will be confusing

[72offsuit]

Of this player roster, I have played with AloRA, Clidd and DK.
It is also my first non-newbie game.

[72offsuit]

First VOTE: Hiraki

First is the Worst

VOTE: Tet

Vote: 72offsuit

The circle of life.

[72offsuit]

Hello, this is my first non newbie game.

I'm going to go ahead and VOTE: Aloratom[/vpte]

That's what you get for calling me bad in the last game we played together in >:(

I don't have a good history with a few on this roster.

Who have you previously played with?

[72offsuit]

Hide: every night, you may PM me with the name of someone who you want to hide behind. If that player is a member of the mafia or the vigilante, you will die. If the player you hide behind is targeted for a nightkill by the mafia or vigilante that night, you will die. If you are targeted for a nightkill on a night that you hide behind someone else, that nightkill will not affect you.

Doesnt sound that op. 3 scum. So first night 3/12 = 25 percent chance hide behond scum = insta death.

1/9 chance hide behind town that is being killled thus also die.

Worth noting, i think, is
With a claim, scum knows not to waste a kill opportunity targeting the hider's slot.

A claim for a clear that cant b targeted still sounds +EV.

[72offsuit]

Day lynch changes the odds so thats wrong -_-
Guess the principles still hold tho

[72offsuit]

FoS Alora and Allomancer because now if i want to use the abbreviation Alo it will be confusing

One "l" vs two "l"s. Alo and Allo.

Yeah, this'll be fun.

Would the real Alo / slim shady pls stand up.

[72offsuit]

FoS Alora and Allomancer because now if i want to use the abbreviation Alo it will be confusing

One "l" vs two "l"s. Alo and Allo.

Yeah, this'll be fun.

Would the real Alo / slim shady pls stand up.

Wdym by stand up?
And who is slim shady? :/

Don't tell me that I'm that old. And even older than that.

The Real Slim Shady
Song. By eminem

[72offsuit]

Mmk so while hypo is a nice idea it's not necessary. Best chance for town is mathdinos strat in 487.

-hider claims late d1 without dropping reads/does not claim who they are hiding behind.

-tracker/vig chooses tracker and tracks hider.

-det/psych holds claim till late game if at all possible

This changes if tracker/vig is going to be lynched d1. In that case they take vig and shoot the scummiest target, hider moves freely.

Agree with DK. Tracking hider is a waste. Otherwise sounds reasopnable.

[72offsuit]

Hider claims don't cross target. The tracker can figure out the hider between the two via night actions and the hider knows the counterclaim is scum.

The way hider + tracker work in this setup is essentially a cop in combination.

Hider doesn't have to out their targets. Tracker follows the hider and if the hider lives the person they visited is a green check. If the hider dies and there is a nightkill then it's a red check.

Scum can't counterclaim hider in the setup. They can CC tracker but only if they successfully lynch the hider since he can corroborate the targets.

Now this sounds like you are encouraging scum to CC hider -_-

[72offsuit]

dkkoba, you're not wrong about the logic, obviously. You might be right about orange, but I'm not convinced for the moment. I think the idea that putting pressure on orange to "explain themselves" is a fools errand - clearly orange can't explain it satisfactorily, so you're setting him up to fail.

I'm keeping my vote on you for now. Not buying the aggression and over-confidence in your read.

Agreed.
It's like flogging a dead horse.

[72offsuit]

the tracker doesn't go on the hider in order to confirm the hider ya dunce

Mmk so while hypo is a nice idea it's not necessary. Best chance for town is mathdinos strat in 487.

-hider claims late d1 without dropping reads/does not claim who they are hiding behind.

-tracker/vig chooses tracker and tracks hider.

-det/psych holds claim till late game if at all possible

This changes if tracker/vig is going to be lynched d1. In that case they take vig and shoot the scummiest target, hider moves freely.

Agree with DK. Tracking hider is a waste. Otherwise sounds reasopnable.

I think you misspoke here. Care to elaborate?

I think I misunderstood your post.
On reread I think I get the context.
When you said tracker doesn't go on the hider in order to confirm the hider ya dunce''
I originally thought you meant that tracker doesnt track hider at all.
But on reread It looks like you are saying the PURPOSE of tracking hider claim is not to confirm hider, but rather to find out who scum is when hider dies.

[72offsuit]

änd that you still support tracker tracking hider claim.
Is that correct?

[72offsuit]

Madoka, why do you think Orange is suspicious for arguing something so obviously wrong, and anti-town, when it was already pretty clear the consensus was against him?

I'm not convinced yet Orange would stick his neck out like that for no reason if he was scum, much more likely to fade into background agreeing with majority.

Not going to elaborate on Hiraki read yet, as still possible he/she will give off some tells. But wanted to reflect initial view, largely as a reminder for me later.

Agree, I think the ship had sailed and Orange wasn't going to convince anyone, so I don;t think scum presses the point here, but would rather back off and blend in with the rest of the players.

Orange vs DK feels more like

TvT

to me

[72offsuit]

Feeling pretty good on my 72offsuit SR.

Wanna elaborate?

Perhaps later. I am sure the true tells will show soon enough or I will be wrong.

I was obsessed with that game. It tore me up inside. Poor little 9S

VOTE: DrDolittle

I'm not understanding this post. Is this a personal/inhouse thing? Or am i missing something here?

[72offsuit]

VOTE: Allomancer

Posts are all Information instead of analysis.
Pretty much only setup speculation. Zero reads. Zero player analysis.

Come and join the Allom lynch train. Choo choo choo chugga chugga choo choo
No ticket required, it's free to board the wagon.

[72offsuit]

The site doesn’t want to load for me. Everything else works normally, I can watch youtube and discord works without lagging so I’m assuming that my WiFi is fine but for some reason every time I try to load MS either an error is displayed or it loads

terribly

slowly. Nothing changes when I switch to mobile. Does anyone else have this problem? Idk what to do...
I can’t even quote posts properly

I’ll probably wait till evening today but if it doesn’t get better I’ll just ignore quotes and write everything in one big post... :/

Ye. I had same problem. It must've been a mafiascum issue. Everything else was working fine for me too.

[72offsuit]

VOTE: tet

What brought about this?

What don't you agree with?

I think the "it'll give mafia info" is bullshit. setup strategy spec is important to hash out early on as to optimize what we can do mechanically.

This.

I'm not convinced yet Orange would stick his neck out like that for no reason if he was scum, much more likely to fade into background agreeing with majority.

People should stop talking about roles, it doesn't benefit village and gives the werewolves more information than they deserve about who is or isn't what role. If you feel the need to discuss the setup, do so in a way that doesn't spew you as not X role. Hider outing is a terrible idea, optimal play for hider is to hide behind their strongest townread each night unless that player is vulnerable to a nightkill and if hider outs then it becomes very simple to narrow down who they are going to visit at night. Vigilante is also a lot more power for town than tracker, and the vigilante should be shooting the counterwagon each night, so as long as the vigilante is doing their job there should never be any real risk of the vigilante inadvertently hitting the hider. Detective/psychologist is going to have false positives with a vigilante around but that should never be a serious issue when claims happen, as long as they are sensible and don't out on day 2 or day 3 if they happen to get an early result.

I completely disagree with most of this.

However, reference to werewolves, when it's obvious you know there are no werewolves in the game (because you've read the setup) did make me happy, happyorange. I'd consider this quite a bold open from scum, so giving benefit of doubt.

Not good.

Nah, you're just desperate to vote for me because I'm voting for you, and you're struggling to find any excuse.

Aggression and confidence can be good if you have something strong to back it up. You don't, so seems like it's just an act (which is trait of a scum player). Especially when you opened up with "hello, this is my first non-newbie game", which was about as soft as it gets, and by page 4 you'd moved to stuff like:

VI - I take it back.

It might be your first game, but panicking about 1 vote on Page 4 isn't a good look.

Need more proof?

Please explain this post.

1. What did u mean by not good?

2. What do u mean by VI i take it back?

[72offsuit]

Hider claims don't cross target. The tracker can figure out the hider between the two via night actions and the hider knows the counterclaim is scum.

The way hider + tracker work in this setup is essentially a cop in combination.

Hider doesn't have to out their targets. Tracker follows the hider and if the hider lives the person they visited is a green check. If the hider dies and there is a nightkill then it's a red check.

Scum can't counterclaim hider in the setup. They can CC tracker but only if they successfully lynch the hider since he can corroborate the targets.

Now this sounds like you are encouraging scum to CC hider -_-

How so? Scum is very free to do so. It just makes a town win that much easier to achieve.

Ok.

[72offsuit]

I agree with the strategy tet provided in 45. TV should only ever choose Vig if they are forced to claim D1, otherwise, they should always choose Tracker because Vig interferes with Hider, Detective and Psychologist. I think Orange is suspicious for arguing otherwise.

So are there any established strategies for this setup or what do we do? I can already think of 1 potential strategy giving it a quick glance but I wanted to ask those more experienced what they thought.

Pfffft, I love how this seems both humble and arrogant at the same time xD
If you have any ideas, just say them

What was arrogant about it to you?

So are there any established strategies for this setup or what do we do? I can already think of 1 potential strategy giving it a quick glance but I wanted to ask those more experienced what they thought.

Pfffft, I love how this seems both humble and arrogant at the same time xD
If you have any ideas, just say them

reading through role PMs, we should all hypo as hider with a target, or just have real hider claim sometime d1 and lead.

Lol. This gives off townie vibes.

DK: +1 No-red-lights-on-the-drive-home-from-work

(meta shamelessly stolen off hectic)

Can you explain what the green means?

Don't necessarily agree with the above but it comes from town.

What don't you agree with?

early read, based on a sample of her recent games, is Hiraki = town.

Can you elaborate?

Green colour means town aligned / town vibe
Red means scum aligned / scum vibe
Number means the weighting of the read/lean

Text after is just flavour.

[72offsuit]

In my experience with DkKoba, this is normal for them so I don't have a scum read there.

I don't understand the Allomancer wagon. 72offsuit, why do you go after It for "all information, no reads" when that's pretty much what everyone had been doing to that point? And Dolittle slides a vote in on Allomancer too without even a how ya doin'.

Yeah, aggressive is standard for DK. In one newbie game, essentially got subbed out as it got out of hand. I wasnt involved in that game but read a bit of it and it got very heated very quickly. The game i did play with DK, they were aggressive and were town.

Allomancer's setup spec was useless, unlike several others which were actually useful eg: tet, Madoka, DK.
Have a townlean on tet so also happy to be on a wagon started by tet.

[72offsuit]

I don't like the Battle Mage vs DkKoba conflict. Both feel like egotistical players not willing to back down from a challenge. Either could be scum or town from what I've seen. I really don't understand battle mage's argument that because dkkoba said he's new but is also aggressive that means he's scum, though.

That wasn't my argument. The argument is basically:

Dkkoba very aggressive/emotional language and very confident about reads.
Dkkoba has little reason to be that confident in reads, so I'm not convinced it's legit.
The fact Dkkoba started the game passive and became aggressive very quickly is also odd. Although that could be a personality trait perhaps.

Does it mean he's

definitely

scum? Of course not, but at this stage it's a good enough reason for a vote.

I think there's some merit to the suggestion that Allomancer has been pretty non-committal so far, and playing very safe.

Allomancer, care to share some early insights?

And I echo post 118 - Hiraki, what are you talking about?

Allomancer - do you still not have any reads? I got the sense you might have a scumread on me, as I'm the only person you've come close to indicating suspicion of.

Dkkoba - Apologies on the pronoun thing - It's not something I've ever really paid attention to, but will try to remember if it bothers you.

This questioning of Allom gives me a fake/forced/pre-prepared vibe. Getting a scum-scum vibe from this interaction.
Allom already outed some superficial reads after i pressed him.

[72offsuit]

Does anyone else have this problem?

It's the site.

Hider claims don't cross target. The tracker can figure out the hider between the two via night actions and the hider knows the counterclaim is scum.

The way hider + tracker work in this setup is essentially a cop in combination.

Hider doesn't have to out their targets. Tracker follows the hider and if the hider lives the person they visited is a green check. If the hider dies and there is a nightkill then it's a red check.

Scum can't counterclaim hider in the setup. They can CC tracker but only if they successfully lynch the hider since he can corroborate the targets.

Now this sounds like you are encouraging scum to CC hider -_-

How so? Scum is very free to do so. It just makes a town win that much easier to achieve.

Ok.

What made you feel they were attempting to get scum to CC?

I don't like dkkoba's vote either. orange just joined the site a week ago, so I don't think him being wrong about setup spec of all things makes him scum.

Do you think they are a new player based on their posts?

Rushed post while at lunch at work. Not really sure what tree i was barking at there regarding the encouraging a CC. Agreed, it makes no sense given mafia PT.

[72offsuit]

Ech. Not a fan of that after thinking about it for a moment.

Not a fan of what? Please quote which post you are referring to.

[72offsuit]

He states that it's town vs scum but his wording makes it sound like town v town. I don't see scum making that move too often and, if so, it's calculated. That post feels off the cuffs.

Who is the "he"you are referring to?

[72offsuit]

You are making this hard work to follow the thread.

[72offsuit]

Rawr!

Hi. I see your Rawr, and reraise to RAAAAAAAAAAAWR!

[72offsuit]

Hider claims don't cross target. The tracker can figure out the hider between the two via night actions and the hider knows the counterclaim is scum.

The way hider + tracker work in this setup is essentially a cop in combination.

Hider doesn't have to out their targets. Tracker follows the hider and if the hider lives the person they visited is a green check. If the hider dies and there is a nightkill then it's a red check.

Scum can't counterclaim hider in the setup. They can CC tracker but only if they successfully lynch the hider since he can corroborate the targets.

Now this sounds like you are encouraging scum to CC hider -_-

and you think that's a scummy thing to do? you think he's telling his buddies to CC when the time comes? why do that public and not in PT?

also why are you pushing allomancer based on setup spec when

literally the entire game so far has been exactly that

?

@72, if you think allomancer looks bad because of that, why aren't you pushing other players for the same reason? I'm sure there are others here who have done nothing but talk about mech or even not that

Answered these. You're Late to the party.

[72offsuit]

@allomancer, is there any particular reason you started giving game thoughts *after* 72 called you out on that? Did you just get caught?

Yes.

[72offsuit]

Im having massive wait times too.
Im just multi tasking in between page loads lol.

[72offsuit]

I'm not sold on allomancer scum, but I think a wagon there can do good things

Convince me.

Are you saying you weren't convinced by the Allo vs Alo argument on Page 1!?

Lol

[72offsuit]

Why is 72 so high agajn

https://images.app.goo.gl/f57FoV1G2X5nTCj37

[72offsuit]

Orange vs DK feels more like

TvT

to me

Uh, what? I don't remember doing anything other than ignoring DKK, not sure how you're imagining that as a TvT.

If it's not TvT, I take it you think DkKoba is scummy?

No.
I townlean DK.
Where did you get thia impression from?

[72offsuit]

allo wanna explain why you're defending orange so hard btw?

I wouldn't call one post questioning a reason for scumreading him "defending so hard".

considering you're attempting to counterwagon onto me, yeah, I'd say that's a hardcore defense.

It's strange that there isn't a counter-wagon at all at this point in the game, isn't it?

No. The wagon hasnt existed for that long and there are still six and a half days to deadline.

Im feeling pretty good about all the players on the wagon.

[72offsuit]

Orange vs DK feels more like

TvT

to me

Uh, what? I don't remember doing anything other than ignoring DKK, not sure how you're imagining that as a TvT.

If it's not TvT, I take it you think DkKoba is scummy?

No.
I townlean DK.
Where did you get thia impression from?

If you look at the quotes, that question was for happyorange.

Huh?

Im saying orange vd DK felt TvT.

And you are asking orange, which of orange and DK are scum?

Huh?

[72offsuit]

allo wanna explain why you're defending orange so hard btw?

I wouldn't call one post questioning a reason for scumreading him "defending so hard".

considering you're attempting to counterwagon onto me, yeah, I'd say that's a hardcore defense.

It's strange that there isn't a counter-wagon at all at this point in the game, isn't it?

No. The wagon hasnt existed for that long and there are still six and a half days to deadline.

Im feeling pretty good about all the players on the wagon.

I'm concerned about upsetting the game plan, but if people want to go off book, I guess we can deal with it.

I dont understand this post

[72offsuit]

Lynch preferences: 1.Allomancer 2.Ejji/Almost

I'll sheep DK if thou insist on orange, though im not convinced.

[72offsuit]

Work busy will catch up tomorrow

[72offsuit]

if you highlight

Wow, best thing since sliced bread

[72offsuit]

I'm still doing a read through but these are my impressions so far. Depending on how Looker responds to me, I'm almost sure she's town. I've read her correctly from just a few posts in the past 3-4 games she's been in. Ico is playing completely different than what I've seen as scum. I've barely read any of the Easter Eggs' posts.

Deviled eggs

(the best kind of eggs)
Madoka
DkKoba
Iconeum
Looker

Easter Eggs

Tet
Allomancer
72offsuit
Battle Mage
Aloratom
Hiraki

Rotten Eggs

happyorange
DrDolittle
Almostejji

Ye, not bad.

[72offsuit]

like, put looker down in easter eggs and switch allomancer with ejji and that's probably good

Better.

[72offsuit]

like, put looker down in easter eggs and switch allomancer with ejji and that's probably good

Better.

Hm, actually not after rereading the whole thread.

[72offsuit]

like, put looker down in easter eggs and switch allomancer with ejji and that's probably good

Better.

Hm, actually not after rereading the whole thread.

go on?

Gonna take me ages. Its all scribbled on a super messy paperpad.

[72offsuit]

Townread
DK

Townlean
Tet
Madoka

Null
Ico
Looker
HO

Null-scum
Hiraki

Scumlean
Allom

Scumread
DDL
Alora
Ejji

[72offsuit]

Voila. Thats it. No more to come.

[72offsuit]

Tet
Townleaned for the setup mechanical plan
But then basically coasted off that 1 post. NAI posts, until finally exchange with Ico in posts 379-394 felt genuinely like town.
Specifically the fact it seemed like and unplanned/not calculated/off the cuff to use hirakis term.

386 also in particular gave me townie vibes. Regarding the purpose and weight/intention of votes, rather than votes for the sake of votes.
Agree with (their) assessment, a lot of votes without substance, wagons joined without much reasoning
Noone really providing great reasons why others should join a wagon.

[72offsuit]

Madoka
Initially read 75 as pro-town, felt like usefull contribution regarding thoughts on setup.
On re-read it feels lamisty. I feel like my green coloured posting was pretty self explanatory, and feel all the questions were just questions for the sake of questions.
sake of questions - so slightly scummy post.

137 questioning my nonsensical 98 felt pro-town.
272 and 274:
a) Feel genuine town motivation here
b) This is the sort of post I've made several times as town
c) Agree with the scumread on DDL

284 comparing HO's post to a scum-flipping similar post in another game feels town motivated.

[72offsuit]

Townread
DK

Townlean
Tet
BM
Madoka

Null
Ico
Looker
HO

Null-scum
Hiraki

Scumlean
Allom

Scumread
DDL
Alora
Ejji

EBWOP - forgot BM

[72offsuit]

BM
78 and 82 - Slightly townie - agreed with his reasoning/mindset Re: the push on orange. His view of DK being aggressive and overcoinfident felt genuine.

125 and 131 - Slightly scummy - felt forced / the sort of thing scum prepares and then didnt even follow the thread to see allom had responded

174 - Slightly scummy - answer to my question wasnt really satisfactory, didnt get a town vibe from the response at all. Then I felt like he was buddying me
at the end of the post regarding me being possibly half right in Allom read

206 Townie vibe- the confbias consideration feels like someone coming from a town mindset

261 Significantly townie vibe - The analysis of the Orange wagon feels very pro-town and I agree with the rationale.
Then he goes on to say DK is scummy... lol. I think his read is still genuine, just wrong.

281 Townie vibe- Having a go at Hiraki actually oddly feels pro-town to me. Doesn't care about buddying hiraki or trying to put him onside.

[72offsuit]

Ico
150 Townie vibe - agreed with his read regarding Allom posting some superficial reads after i questioned him about his lack of scumhunting

152 Townie vibe - questioning of DDL's lack of posting WIM feels town motivated

185 Scummy vibe - basically agree with Hiraki's 187 . The vote feels awkward and out of place.
Initially liked the vote on Allom but it just feels a bit off to me now.

189 Scummy vibe -
Don;t really agree with the fencesitting accusation here - BM's rationale felt genuine here.
Don;t really see BM being aggressive and overly confident. Don't particularly see how that is scummy behaviour either even if it was there.

Don't like the phrasing "and this is just piling onto what you want to be a case"
- Is this not what town is meant to do? Look for scummy behaviour in their scum reads?

I really wanna do want a dkkoba wagon once we're done with allomancer
- Don;t like this last phrase, its as if the Alom wagon/lynch is going to go through, and as if its already a done deal.

362
Townie vibe - Feels like its coming from a town mindset, that DK should be looking for town reads

Townie vibe on Exchange with tet in posts 379 to 394 felt genuinely like town, and occured in real time.


Probably a Null-townlean overall actually.

[72offsuit]

Looker - Pretty much 100% NAI posts.

[72offsuit]

HO
171 Scummy vibe -Fence sitting - 0 reads.

223 Townie - vibe - Feel townie attitude saying he is leaning towards lynching Hiraki and his theories of 'gaslighting' BM and setting up a mislynch of BM
Agree with his difficulty reading into BM.
It took me ages to come to a conclusion as to where my thoughts were at Regarding the slot.

312 Townie - vibe - Agree with the thoughts on DDL and his odd responses to Madoka's read and questioning. Feels like genuine scumhunting.

455 Scummy vibe Feels like garbage reasoning to place a vote on me after several players have expressed sentiment for voting for me.
The timing seems awfully convenient for !scumHO, given my TvT read/post occured way back in post 114.

[72offsuit]

Hiraki

Overall tunnelling on me with 0 reasoning. Worse yet, doesn't direct any questions at me or dissect any posts to try to sort out my slot.
Scummy ++
Yes, I know, i know only I know my alignment, but my point still stands.
The proposed lynch pool of 5 players is way too much, does not feel townie, feels like a survivalist scattershotgun approach. Any lynch, just not me. sort of mindset.
Pretty much guaranteed that (probably just single) 1 scum is in these 4 if Hiraki is scum.

141 Townie vibe - Feels genuine and the analysis sounds town-motvated.

187 Townie vibe - Agree with the questioning of Ico - the reasoning of the vote on Allom felt odd. Opportunistic hop on if Allom is town.

228 Scummy vibe - Disagree with the contradicting himself. Town is more like to change their mind relative to scum who are more likely to tunnel.
I dont see it as contradiction, but rather a change of mind post meta reading.

[72offsuit]

Allom - reasons stated earlier. Post since then have been pretty much NAI, so still just a scumlean.

[72offsuit]

DDL

Overall fluff galore, votes for the sake of it, mostly not even creating pressure - too short a time on any 1 player to create any pressure ---- scummy

216 Totally dismissive of questioning about his tet vote - scummy


269 to 275 - In real-ish time discussion with Madoka, between 1040 and 1052.

275 - feels like scum with no defense to their scummy behaviour

277 Scummy vibe - 10:40-10:52: comes up with a nothing-content / nongenuine feeling read, which I agree with Hiraki, I dont agree with his reasoning.
Its a read for the sake of a read, after pressure was on him from Madoka.

299 Votes me with little reasoning, seemingly hoping to get onto wagon early.

303 Scummy vibe - no order to his lynch priority. Anyone other than me will do attitude. Survivalistic

306 Scummy ++ 2nd most strongest scumread is looker, the zero content nullest slot ever???? Does not feel like town scumhunting at all.
Mentions vague meta, which given trhe lack of explanation feels lamisty that he went to the effort of doing a super shallow meta "dive"

[72offsuit]

Alora

Overall lots of dry questions that arent really probing or authentic-scumhunting feeling
Not only feels like pretend scumhunting but also liek scum trying to interact with several slots for distancing purposes, just something fake scum tend to do.

238 Townie vibe - Feels like an authentic read on the hiraki v battle mage

339 Basically pushing for the non clear not to out reads for the benefit of town if the hider dies - non pro-town AT ALL.

340 Backpedals, knowing he has been scummy in his previous post.

OVerall probably a scumlean rather than scumread.

[72offsuit]

DDL is a scumread over a scumlean

[72offsuit]

A50/Ejji

In Ejji's town game mini normal 2121,
viewtopic.php?p=11611446&user_select%5B ... #p11611446
he outs reads thick and fast and early.
He has 61/610 posts in a 13 player game, so is an above average poster in a fairly busy game. He is also easily read as town by fellow town (obvtowns) (the Leaf player forgot the exact name, cbf relooking)
Here, he has 0 reads early and just posts fluff, and not many psots at all. The disinterest and replace out in this game is scummy (yes i know he had internet issues, but we all had, so its obv not specific to just him)

Agree with Madoka's 468 - A50's defense in 164 that it is overly rambly, longwinded and overjustifying.

[72offsuit]

Ejji or DDL for lynch today

[72offsuit]

Who have you previously played with?

Looker
ejji
Dk
72
clidd

Oof, I didn’t recognize you cuz of the avatar change. Hi!

Actually, this may be a partner slip. Aloratom hadn't posted until then so Ejj wouldn't have seen his avatar unless they were posting in PT.

Nice thought. But last time ejji saw me was in that 2121 mini normal that 72offsuit cited in his breakdown of ejji. I'm not sure why he commented on ejji's meta from that game and not mine.

Because I've played with you previously so I at least have a vague feel of how you play. In this game most of your posts lack content/flavour. Nothing significant to meta dive on.

[72offsuit]

yall be scumreading me you should vote me

idk about yall but .. i really like this post for some reason. I just really do, and I don't see myself lynching DDL today.

K.

VOTE: Ejji

[72offsuit]

Ejji or DDL for lynch today

But you're voting Allomancer?

Ye, what's your point?

[72offsuit]

VOTE: A50

[72offsuit]

Btw - I can join orange if it is actually L-2. I don't want to count atm and I don't want to accidentally hammer.

@Mod: Votecount please?

Only Ico and myself have changed votes since last VC in 472

Updated unofficial VC (pls correct me if im wrong)

happyorange (4) - Almost50, Hiraki, DkKoba, Iconeum

Allomancer (1) - Tet

Almost50 (3) - Looker, Madoka, 72offsuit

72offsuit (2) - Aloratom, happyorange

Hiraki (1) - Battle Mage

Looker (1) - DrDolittle

not voting (1) - Allomancer

[72offsuit]

You cant join a wagon you are already on.

[72offsuit]

Why did you not know who you were voting?

[72offsuit]

Updated unofficial VC (pls correct me if im wrong) - Looker and DDL shifted votes

happyorange (4) - Almost50, Hiraki, DkKoba, Iconeum

Allomancer (1) - Tet

Almost50 (2) - Madoka, 72offsuit

72offsuit (3) - Aloratom, happyorange, DrDolittle

Hiraki (2) - Battle Mage, Looker

not voting (1) - Allomancer

[72offsuit]

72, what do you mean precisely when you say something is pro-town? You used it a few times in your recent stuff and I'm not clear on what you mean by it.

Any post / attitude that propels town's objectives, to find and lynch scum.

[72offsuit]

Deviled eggs

Madoka
DkKoba
Iconeum
72offsuit
Tet

Kinder Eggs

Battle Mage
Hiraki
Aloratom
happyorange

Easter Eggs

Allomancer

Rotten Eggs

DrDolittle
Looker
Almostejji

Allo plays the same in every game and I have yet to identify how to read him. I think his play is a bit different here from his town game in Totally Real Food, but honestly, I really don't know. He can go either way.

Can you clarify a little why you have Alora in the Kinder eggs category?

[72offsuit]

In my experience with DkKoba, this is normal for them so I don't have a scum read there.

I don't understand the Allomancer wagon. 72offsuit, why do you go after It for "all information, no reads" when that's pretty much what everyone had been doing to that point? And Dolittle slides a vote in on Allomancer too without even a how ya doin'.

I'm not sold on allomancer scum, but I think a wagon there can do good things

Convince me.

@alo ill tell you in a bit

Please do. I really don't like 181 and hope some further explanation from Allomancer is forthcoming, but I'd like to hear your thoughts in light of this being the first thing you've committed to.

I'm not interested in voting orange.

What's the scoop on Allomancer? I don't hate that wagon, but it concerns me.

I'm not sure I like sharing a wagon with 72offsuit, but I'd really like to see an answer to Ico's 358 from Allomancer.

VOTE: Allomancer

The progression of his read here in Allom doesnt feel genuine to me,
and the one on one interaction with DDL just feels awkward.

[72offsuit]

The fact DDL never responded to Alora regarding why Alomancer is scummy, AND Alora doesnt even follow up his questioning of DDL prior to voting Alomancer makes zero sense.

[72offsuit]

I didn't out prematurely. The deadline was 40% done and the discussion was not going in a productive direction(i.e. too focused on me who would be confirmed clear).

Honestly, do you not see that the value of having you cleared is greatly diminished if you then don't do or say anything. You should be helping to lynch scum today, and worry about whether/where you're hiding later.

This is a bad post.

VOTE: Battle Mage

Actually, re-reading 418 and 423, I'll retract.

UNVOTE: Battle Mage

72, I read your thoughts on this, but I think the thoughtlessness around this sort of double take tends to be a villager thing more often than not. What's making you read it as aloram as a wolf realizing they said something that could be perceived badly and backpedalling to avoid the heat rather than a moment where their lack of agenda as a villager shines through? I think I have more issues with aloram than not but if they're a villager then this bit is probably an indicator of that, talk to me about it a little?

I said Alora backpedalled in post 340,regarding his comments in 339.

[72offsuit]

I didn't out prematurely. The deadline was 40% done and the discussion was not going in a productive direction(i.e. too focused on me who would be confirmed clear).

Honestly, do you not see that the value of having you cleared is greatly diminished if you then don't do or say anything. You should be helping to lynch scum today, and worry about whether/where you're hiding later.

This is a bad post.

VOTE: Battle Mage

Actually, re-reading 418 and 423, I'll retract.

UNVOTE: Battle Mage

72, I read your thoughts on this, but I think the thoughtlessness around this sort of double take tends to be a villager thing more often than not. What's making you read it as aloram as a wolf realizing they said something that could be perceived badly and backpedalling to avoid the heat rather than a moment where their lack of agenda as a villager shines through? I think I have more issues with aloram than not but if they're a villager then this bit is probably an indicator of that, talk to me about it a little?

Tend to agree here. Town in general does change their mind in that sort of manner (c.f scum tunnelling)

[72offsuit]

The fact DDL never responded to Alora regarding why Alomancer is scummy, AND Alora doesnt even follow up his questioning of DDL prior to voting Alomancer makes zero sense.

What? You posted the follow-up, 270. That's pretty easy to track.

I'm saying, where is the follow-up to 270...
Nothing followed up between 270 and your vote on Allom

[72offsuit]

I would expect you to scumread DDL who looks like he is dodging your questions

[72offsuit]

Ico150 Townie vibe - agreed with his read regarding Allom posting some superficial reads after i questioned him about his lack of scumhunting

187 Townie vibe - Agree with the questioning of Ico - the reasoning of the vote on Allom felt odd. Opportunistic hop on if Allom is town.

First quote was from your post regarding me, the second from your post regarding Hitaki

What up with that? Do you like and agree with me on my Allomancer read, or is it odd/opportunistic? It's very strange that you feel both ways.

Why is this odd?

I agreed with your post 150 that Allomancer responded immediately after I pressured him. Though looking back its probs obvious I'm going to agree with you following up on my own questioning of Allom

I agreed with Hira in disliking your voting post on Allom.

It feels like you are casting shade on me here.
Scummy post vibe.

[72offsuit]

we're approaching deadline. I personally want orange, if they claim PR , then go on DrDolittle. I start a 2nd job today so I'm proabably going to be limited access but from my brief reskim that's my conclusion, and my vote will stay on orange. I may or may not be back b4 hammer.

K.

VOTE: ORANGE

deadline: 2 days, 4 hours, 3 minutes

[72offsuit]

Updated Unofficial Vote count:
Please correct me if im wrong

Happyorange at L-2

Happyorange (5) - Almost50, Hiraki, DkKoba, Iconeum, 72offsuit

72offsuit (3) - Aloratom, happyorange, DrDolittle

Hiraki (2) - Battle Mage, Madoka

Allomancer (1) - Tet

Tet (1) - Looker


not voting (1) - Allomancer

[72offsuit]

Any1 wanna flashwagon allomancer? I do

Lol. Not when its suggested by you.

[72offsuit]

VOTE: Vote DDL

[72offsuit]

I don't like to respond to people who wolfread me for a bunch of reasons, but the main ones are that

a) I'm always going to be biased given that I have my own opinions about how people should be perceiving me and what were intentions were when saying different things, so trying to get a read on other people from the way they're reading me incorrectly is imo a very unreliable way to form reads and not something I care for doing,

b) engaging with people on why they think I'm a wolf is a good way to muddy the thread with relatively unreadable nonsense, I'm not the right person to convince someone they're wrong about me because from their perspective if I'm a wolf I'm just going to be lying to them and telling them what they want to hear, and the majority of the time when people read you incorrectly there's no amount of things you can tell them about how they're wrong that will make them change their read, it's a different story if they have concerns about you that they ask you about specifically but that's not often the case, most of the time if they're going to realize they're wrong on you they're going to do it on their terms and not yours, trying to make it happen on your terms is a fast track to toxic game environments and burn out,

c) it's a waste of my time when I could be writing about other players, my thoughts on them and other things that would actually help me solve the game, think it's incredibly boring to talk about myself to other people or talk with them about me and doing so doesn't do anything for me, it's not why I play werewolf and never will be.

I get that I have to make an exception for a new crowd given that when people play werewolf they tend to read fear or incompetence into silence rather just lack of interest, but I'm genuinely baffled that my wagon is still a thing because no one has given any real reasons why I'm a wolf here and I don't think they can without realizing they're wrong as they try to articulate the read, though I may be giving people a little more benefit than they deserve. Things like allomancer's post 675 make very little sense to me because I've just been minding my own business and doing whatever takes my interest, if he thinks there's something to read into with regard to response to pressure I'd like to hear it because I don't really think I've bothered to respond at any point until now.

DK's wolfread on me starts on post 58, where they wolfread me essentially because the hider role that I know works differently to the one here. That really is the crux of that, there are other parts to it that come up later like them not understanding what optimal vig play is but all that happened here was a misunderstanding based in us having different information available to us. There are no other pieces to DK's read on me, at least that he has vocalized, as far as I can tell he just decided that I was scum for a random reason and has refused to reevaluate since. I assume that he's been hoping that I'll do something drastic so he has an excuse to admit that he's wrong and well, I guess this post is probably that, but I'm not the type of player to bother doing things that other people expect of me unless I have no other choice.

Almost's case on me in 559 is a repetition of the same mistake DK made, except it's somehow even more careless. His read is contingent on him not acknowledging my post 106 for what it is. Not really sure how he managed that, but it is what it is. His comment about role cards being on the front page is irrelevant, I actually read all the roles in detail at the start of the game and there's no mention of the hider being trackable, I had to message the moderator to confirm that. His gripe with my post 223 comes down to semantics, he essentially doesn't like the fact that I used different words than he's used to when expressing suspicion on someone. If you read my post rather than his snippet of it, you'll notice that I expressed suspicion of hiraki in the context of feeling lost in the game and not having a good idea of where I wanted to lynch. Don't think Almost does anything to try to get into my head to understand that post, whether that makes him a wolf or simply lazy isn't something I know the answer to when the bar for what passes as a villager in this game is as low as it is.

Hiraki hasn't expressed any reason for voting me or wolfreading me unless I glossed over it, really not anything for me talk about there except that I'd encourage them to actually try to put their thoughts on me down on the page, their last few posts have been an encouraging change of pace and think they're probably one of the few people here who might actually be capable of having a conversation and coming around on me if they put their mind to it.

Ico's only posts about me are his post 189 saying I'm partnered with DK and his post 481 saying that two of my posts were mech talk, which I assume means they think the posts are wolfy? There's no real elaboration there and I have no real idea what ico thinks they're seeing there, the second post quoted was my talking about my read on the gamestate/hiraki/mage and had no relation to mechanics.

Don't think 72 actually has a wolfread of me, his most recent read on me is null in post 498 where the wolfiest thing I've done is wolf read him, I assume his vote is just self-pres.

Those are the people on my wagon, think I vaguely remember someone else mentioning they thought my posts were hard to read which I don't think passes as a real read on me. Think if you've actually read the above then you'll find that there's been near to nothing put out there about why I'm a wolf, don't think the people who are wolfreading me genuinely know why they are or what their reasoning is and if anyone of them are actually able to articulate a coherent wolfread on me I would be pretty surprised. Think you have to willfully ignore or misinterpret some of my posts and cherrypick the ones you don't like to justify anything other than a village read on me, so anyone actually thinking of voting me or currently voting me should be talking about why or moving off my wagon. The wagon is bad from start to finish and the fact that next to no one is defending me here should be a strong indicator that I'm a villager, if you think someone's bussing me then talk about that, don't think you can make a real argument for it.

I'll make a post going over my reads next but please actually read the above and start proposing other lynches that actually make sense and aren't the result of lazy tunneling and complacency.

I never said I had a wolf read of you. I said I would sheep DK. I asked DK to vote for DDL or A50. He didnt and chose you instead.

[72offsuit]

they* sorry

[72offsuit]

Hello, this is my first non newbie game.

I'm going to go ahead and VOTE: Aloratom[/vpte]

That's what you get for calling me bad in the last game we played together in >:(

I don't have a good history with a few on this roster.

Who have you previously played with?

This post started it and it made me question whether or not I was looking at 72 the wrong way. You can go through his ISO there are a slew of these random one-off posts that are questions that have zero importance and are there just to look like they have meaning. You may remember that I

hate

using meta as a basis for a read but in the early game, I'm okay with it. Here are some of 72's old games.

Newbie 1989 - Town Flip - viewtopic.php?t=82324&f=11&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Newbie 1994 - Town Flip - viewtopic.php?t=82538&f=11&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Newbie 1990 - Town Flip - viewtopic.php?t=82380&f=11&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

You'll notice that these are all town flips - not a good test but I'll go with what I got. In all three of these games, 72 seems like an articulate and well-thought out scumhunter. This game? No - not really. I don't think many people think that. And that ISO post really ticks me off as this is bad fabrication because in all of his other games, he seems to actually analyze first and then make the reads second. He even kicks down the door when replacing in one game and puts down a read list in his first post with clear reasoning behind it. Again - nothing case worthy - but it doesn't need to be either. It's clearly well-thought out. His posting in this game seems like darts on a board.

Town Read: rg
Town Lean: WS, JV
Slight Town Lean: Natsu, Maple
Null with a pinch of Town: Non
Scum Read: Recti and trq

Furthermore the combo of Recti and trq makes sense.

Boom, game solved. And I'm not joking here either.
To be honest, I've never felt more convinced that I've find scum on day one and I think I have a pretty decent track record to date. <3

Just read

that

and tell me if we're playing with the same player.

Here's the post in this game:

Townread
DK

Townlean
Tet
Madoka

Null
Ico
Looker
HO

Null-scum
Hiraki

Scumlean
Allom

Scumread
DDL
Alora
Ejji

I could go on and on about the articulate differences (of which I think is the most important!) of these two but it's also not worth it because I don't think meta is the end all anyway.

1. Why have you not posted my game when i was scum?
Did you read that one?
Did you think I was articulate in that one?
Your selective posting of my meta feels less like you are ttying to paint a Picture to suit an agenda.

I feel !town hiraki would be more balanced and read my scum game and compare to that. This is just tunnel tunnel tunnel.

2. As for the game where i kicked doem the door - i knew 80 percent of the playing roster. This. Is also my first non newbirle game. The fact you are not putting none of. This into context, is scummy.

3. I was responding to Ejji's post 24. Where he talks about hider being powerful as heck
It wsd the sort of post where town goes gg this is easy, which irked me.
You getting hung up over this post is clutching at straws.
It feels more like Scum to me now than town confbiasing.

FoS Hiraki

[72offsuit]

@Tet: Welcome back. Any reasoning for your lynch pool beyond "These are the people that voted me"?

72 just sheeping all of dkkobas votes rubs me the wrong way. Mostly the avoidance of taking heat for a town flip.

You, I don't remember anything you've done outside of your weird interactions with A50. I felt it was overly obsessive at first. It might just be you like him as a player but it didn't seem like an effort.

I'm not a big fan of a50 either but he doesn't make a good day 1 lynch. There's probably 1 between you but not 2. You just kind of get the short end by virtue of being not as townie as anyone outside of that Poe. Besides maybe aloratom, who's agreeable but I also don't remember much of what he's said.

How. Is my sheeping of dk scummy?
I clealry stated i wanted to lynch DDL. DK said No to that at that stage.

[72offsuit]

72 can you address the questions asked and Hiraki's case on you?

What questions are still outstanding?

[72offsuit]

@Tet: Welcome back. Any reasoning for your lynch pool beyond "These are the people that voted me"?

72 just sheeping all of dkkobas votes rubs me the wrong way. Mostly the avoidance of taking heat for a town flip.

You, I don't remember anything you've done outside of your weird interactions with A50. I felt it was overly obsessive at first. It might just be you like him as a player but it didn't seem like an effort.

I'm not a big fan of a50 either but he doesn't make a good day 1 lynch. There's probably 1 between you but not 2. You just kind of get the short end by virtue of being not as townie as anyone outside of that Poe. Besides maybe aloratom, who's agreeable but I also don't remember much of what he's said.

This post is bad.
You say scum is lilely to lie amongest 2 players, yet u say u don want to lunch almost50 for a 50 percent chance of scum.

This does not compute.

[72offsuit]

That 691 post is a garbage post. Theres like nothing to respond to.

[72offsuit]

The TvT thing was so long ago i cant even remember y i got that vibe.
If you want to lynch me for that then be my guest

[72offsuit]

Show me when i called you scum

[72offsuit]

@Hiraki

[72offsuit]

I think i just read DK as town and town for going after orange, but didnt think his actual reasoning for going after orange was correct

[72offsuit]

Hiraki conveniently runs away 9 minutes after his post when i wiestion him where i scumread him earlier

[72offsuit]

Wtf happened to the DDL lynch. Zzzzz

[72offsuit]

Null-scum
Hiraki

lol

Lol i call u null-scum and shift you to full scum and you question my FoS?
Fail.

[72offsuit]

Just off gut now tet moves way down from town lean to null-scum

[72offsuit]

Terrible end of day by madoka

[72offsuit]

I think you're trying to appeal to Dk's town read of 72 there. You say it as if you've been town reading him or if there's something about his play that makes him obvtown. Your last mention of him was here where you mentioned thinking his wagon would be meaningful while subtly attempting to derail it / push for getting Orange in hammer range. 72 popping in as we're going at it to remind us of the ddl wagon is very suspicious and I believe he was attempting to derail. I also think his "Madoka bad EoD" is a chainsaw.

Correct, because I'm town.

[72offsuit]

I feel like this is where I'm at.
No, you aren't getting more than this reads list. Deal with it.

Townread
DkKoba





Null-town
happyorange
Aloratom

Null logjam
Madoka
Almost50 ejjinami
Allomancer
Looker
Battle Mage
Iconeum

Null-scum
Tet

Scumlean
Hiraki

Scumread
DrDolittle

[72offsuit]

VOTE: Ico

[72offsuit]

What a shitshow.

shitshow^10 *

[72offsuit]

Unofficial Vote Count
Please correct me if Im wrong.

DrDolittle (2) - Allomancer, Battle Mage

72offsuit (3) - Aloratom, Hiraki, Looker

Allomancer (2) - Tet, DrDolittle

Iconeum (3) - Madoka, DkKoba, 72offsuit

Looker (1) - happyorange

Madoka (1) - Iconeum


not voting (1) - Almost50


with 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch

deadline: 0 days, 20 hours, 13 minutes

[72offsuit]

Vote count 1.12

DrDolittle (3)

- 72offsuit, Allomancer, Battle Mage

72offsuit (2)

- Aloratom, Hiraki

Allomancer (2)

- Tet, DrDolittle

Iconeum (2)

- Madoka, DkKoba

happyorange (1)

- Looker

Looker (1)

- happyorange

Madoka (1)

- Iconeum

not voting (1) -

Almost50

with 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch

deadline:

(expired on 2020-04-11 09:00:00)

mod notes:

-

@Tet: Welcome back. Any reasoning for your lynch pool beyond "These are the people that voted me"?

72 just sheeping all of dkkobas votes rubs me the wrong way. Mostly the avoidance of taking heat for a town flip.

You, I don't remember anything you've done outside of your weird interactions with A50. I felt it was overly obsessive at first. It might just be you like him as a player but it didn't seem like an effort.

I'm not a big fan of a50 either but he doesn't make a good day 1 lynch. There's probably 1 between you but not 2. You just kind of get the short end by virtue of being not as townie as anyone outside of that Poe. Besides maybe aloratom, who's agreeable but I also don't remember much of what he's said.

This post is bad.
You say scum is lilely to lie amongest 2 players, yet u say u don want to lunch almost50 for a 50 percent chance of scum.

This does not compute.

If you have a way to lynch both at the same time I'm all ears.

* confident scum lies in 72/Ejji
* still voting for allomancer*

Tet down to scumlean.

[72offsuit]

Al50*

[72offsuit]

@72, why me over DDL today?

Because DK wanted your lynch and I didnt think we had numbers for a DDL lynch

[72offsuit]

VOTE: DDL

[72offsuit]

Unofficial Vote Count
Please correct me if Im wrong.

DrDolittle (4) - Allomancer, Hiraki, Madoka, 72offsuit (L-3)

72offsuit (2) - Aloratom, Looker

Allomancer (2) - Tet, DrDolittle

Iconeum (1) - Battle Mage

Looker (1) - happyorange

Madoka (1) - Iconeum


not voting (2) - Almost50, DkKoba



DDL at L-3. Need more votes before deadline.

[72offsuit]

Unofficial Vote Count
Please correct me if Im wrong.

DrDolittle (6) - Allomancer, Hiraki, Madoka, 72offsuit, Looker, happyorange (L-1)

Allomancer (3) - Tet, DrDolittle, Aloratom

Iconeum (1) - Battle Mage

Madoka (1) - Iconeum


not voting (2) - Almost50, DkKoba



DDL at L-1.

[72offsuit]

Ego post incoming for post-game, mostly off gut.
Might see if I can come up with more reads based on ISOs.

Minimum 2 Scum in: Tet, BM, Hira, Almost.

Orange's was the shitwagon, not DDLs.

Scum on orange wagon early, thus the slowass progress despite DK being on the wagon. So at least 1 of Hira and Almost scum.
BM's interactions with a few players just feels really awkward and a bit off.
Tet gave me particulary scummy vibes in his sarcastic response to me in one post.

Will follow up later.

BOOM - rocket launcher fired at all 4 targets (given to me by the gunsmith DK)

[72offsuit]

I didn't want to have to lead you guys by the nose so I was kind of hoping Ico was town and could lead instead but I can't exactly trust him at the moment.

So pony up, I'm the Sheriff now.

VOTE: Allomancer

No offense btw Ico.

I'll follow you sheriff.

VOTE: Allomancer

Useful if our hider can confirm if Allomancer is town before he gets lynched...

I'll

unvote

because there's literally no point until the town has all the info. At the moment, Dkkoba's master plan is to run me up, without having a confirmed-town read on me, so what purpose is served by concealing the information, I have no idea. Just a silly ego trip...

DK outting their Conftown early today just makes it easier for scum to manipulate their mislynch target.

[72offsuit]

So needless to say that was a garbage wagon. I'm willing to bet money that Allo is scum.

Ego post incoming for post-game, mostly off gut.
Might see if I can come up with more reads based on ISOs.

Minimum 2 Scum in: Tet, BM, Hira, Almost.

Orange's was the shitwagon, not DDLs.

Scum on orange wagon early, thus the slowass progress despite DK being on the wagon. So at least 1 of Hira and Almost scum.
BM's interactions with a few players just feels really awkward and a bit off.
Tet gave me particulary scummy vibes in his sarcastic response to me in one post.

Will follow up later.

BOOM - rocket launcher fired at all 4 targets (given to me by the gunsmith DK)

It was absolutely a shit wagon. When no one on the wagon can even case the wagon, it's bad.

DkKoba leading the wagon doesn't make it good. It makes the initial vote town motivated and that's it.

Like even now DkKoba voting BM probably gets BM run up when Allo is practically outed.

I feel as though if !TownTet were so convinced that they had scum in Allom, they would not be doing some vague vote count analysis based on the quality of wagons, to determine on/off wagon scum distribution.

Rather they would be casing scum partners based on interactions with Allom

[72offsuit]

Tet vs BM smelling more like SvS by the post

[72offsuit]

Tets 1019 Was the post i wanted to quotebthere

[72offsuit]

Rather than 1020

[72offsuit]

This game is scum heaven.
Its nigh impossible to townblock, im virtually getting very few town vibes, PoE.m gna b hard. My lynch pool is basically the whole roster.

@ Everyone: 1. if deadline were in 12 hours, and you had the hammer, who would you hammer, right here right now?

2. Why did the chicken cross the road?

[72offsuit]

This game is scum heaven.
Its nigh impossible to townblock, im virtually getting very few town vibes, PoE.m gna b hard. My lynch pool is basically the whole roster.

@ Everyone: 1. if deadline were in 12 hours, and you had the hammer, who would you hammer, right here right now?

2. Why did the chicken cross the road?

If you wanna talk reads, we can. Lack of townblock is purely the fault of having so many 'wannabe sherrifs' who think they can solo this game.

1) Allomancer, then Battle Mage. Allomancer for general lack of in-depth posts and analyisis. Battle Mage for his day 1 v me and now his soft defending of a slot that is likely gonna flip scum 'just because it miiiight be a clear'.

2) To fetch a rope that fits Allomancer

LOL, thanks for making my evening. xD

1. How about BM today, allomancer tomorrow?
2. This is town. 50% cos it sounds like coming from town, half cos it made me chuckle. ok more like %/90%.

[72offsuit]

@madoka, i'm surprised you want to lynch allomancer over either of 72 or myself?

Why does that surprise you?
Do you feel you have been that scummy?

[72offsuit]

I did read those, and I don't see the link. It feels like you were townreading me previously, and when I pointed my finger at you, you just blew up and went 'OMG THIS IS SCUM!ICO LYNCWXCGHIK NAAOOWW'

it felt a little over the top, but i know i tend to react like that as well to pressure I find unfounded

and honestly, i expected both you and mage to come out of the gate firing at me so i'm just surprised you followed Tet onto Allomancer that easily (not that i don't like the wagon)

Yeah, pretty much same thing with me. Madoka felt town for most of yesterday, then I found the end of day scummy, said so, and instantly got FoSsed by Madoka.

@ Ico: do you think scum would basically OMGUS 2 people in quick succession in 1 day?

[72offsuit]

Terrible end of day by madoka

Wtf happened to the DDL lynch. Zzzzz

Vote Ico with me. Or is you coming in here chiming on ddl meant to derail?

Wtf happened to the DDL lynch. Zzzzz

Terrible end of day by madoka

We lynch this with fire tomorrow.

Here. Quick turnaround. Vote with me, to ... lynch with fire.

[72offsuit]

I think you're trying to appeal to Dk's town read of 72 there. You say it as if you've been town reading him or if there's something about his play that makes him obvtown. Your last mention of him was here where you mentioned thinking his wagon would be meaningful while subtly attempting to derail it / push for getting Orange in hammer range. 72 popping in as we're going at it to remind us of the ddl wagon is very suspicious and I believe he was attempting to derail. I also think his "Madoka bad EoD" is a chainsaw.

Are you really going with this chainsaw theory Madoka, or have you come to your senses?

[72offsuit]

1. How about BM today, allomancer tomorrow?

i strongly believe lynching on-wagon is better then lynching off-wagon

but if we are lynching off-wagon then it's always gonna be battle mage imo

Which wagon are you referring to?

[72offsuit]

And what was your conclusion for on-wagon?

[72offsuit]

DDL wagon - it's insane how quickly and pretty much uncontested that got to a lynch. Even with deadline in sight, if scum didn't want that lynch they probably could have easily prevented it by 'not being here'

in my experience there's usually at least 1 scum in such a wagon

WOW, earth shattering. You THINK there is scum in a 7 player wagon, with 3 scum and 13 players.

Conftown DK Happyorange and DDL.

If you are town, FYPOV thats 5 (Allom, Hira, Mad, myself and Looker) on wagon

and 4 (Tet, Alora, BM, Almost) off wagon.

and your read is that 1 is on the DDL wagon.


Why do you not care about the Orange wagon?

[72offsuit]

DDL wagon - it's insane how quickly and pretty much uncontested that got to a lynch. Even with deadline in sight, if scum didn't want that lynch they probably could have easily prevented it by 'not being here'

in my experience there's usually at least 1 scum in such a wagon

WOW, earth shattering. You THINK there is scum in a 7 player wagon, with 3 scum and 13 players.

Conftown DK Happyorange and DDL.

If you are town, FYPOV thats 5 (Allom, Hira, Mad, myself and Looker) on wagon

and 4 (Tet, Alora, BM, Almost) off wagon.

and your read is that 1 is on the DDL wagon.


Why do you not care about the Orange wagon?

wow yeah earthshattering indeed...

now let's continue that thought

scum are as good as

guaranteed

on wagon
while they aren't necesarilly off-wagon

simple math says you are more likely to catch scum on- then off-wagon

Sounds like a vanilla-general-one-size-fits all strategy rather than a game-specific-player-analysis-approach

[72offsuit]

What happened to this read Madoka?

Spoiler:

Interaction Analysis

=/ not partners

= partners

~ strange interaction (potentially partners)

AlmostEjj

=/Alo

37

~Battle

49 the tone here looks very forced. Also 50. Did a quick meta check and I haven't seen this awkwardness in any of his other games. He also played as scum before on this site and a few unknown games offsite. So I think this is probably newbie scum awkwardness. 51 is also scummy. Update: Based off 56 I don't think they are partners and the strangeness of this interaction comes purely from Ejj's end.

Sidebar: Oh wow, this doesn't make any sense at all:

So are there any established strategies for this setup or what do we do? I can already think of 1 potential strategy giving it a quick glance but I wanted to ask those more experienced what they thought.

Pfffft, I love how this seems both humble and arrogant at the same time xD
If you have any ideas, just say them

What was arrogant about it to you?

It seemed to come from a pov of someone who already considered their idea as the best one.
If they had an opinion and thought that it was good enough to mention, the only reasons they could have had NOT to say it were to either avoid looking stupid or to try to probe the “experienced players” in a seemingly humble way.
Or if they’re scum, to wait for people to to say their ideas first to see if it’s possible to make them follow a slightly worse one :/
Both last options are arrogant in a way and based on his previous posts, the first one just seemed unlikely.

I think I might

lock AlmostEjj as scum

from this. First of all, aside from Dks other posts, this post in particular did not come off as arrogant. Key phrases: potential strategy, more experienced, established strategies. He was clearly looking for input. Second, this explanation is way overdone/long winded. I think Ejj is hypersensitive scum who felt the need to overjustify himself. You can tell this by the way he felt the need to explicitly show that he didn't know he was town by going through the town and scum scenarios instead of simply explaining it as a whole. Third, the reasoning doesn't make sense. I really doubt townEjj thought this: "to see if it’s possible to make them follow a slightly worse one :/"

Ejj wrote:

battle mage wrote:
Madoka, why do you think Orange is suspicious for arguing something so obviously wrong, and anti-town, when it was already pretty clear the consensus was against him?

I'm not convinced yet Orange would stick his neck out like that for no reason if he was scum, much more likely to fade into background agreeing with majority.

This is a bad read imo. If you think that he is town for that, why not openly say it? It kinda sounds like you want to give a hint that you disagree with the wagon without openly stating your stance on the matter.

Ejj wrote:

Dkk wrote:
If something speaks like scum, then it probably is scum. From my experience at least. I implore people to put pressure on orange and make them explain themselves. I am personally not satisfied with their logic as all it does it help setup mafia and invalidate PRs

...lol


Ngl, the wagon on orange is starting to get weird. Being wrong is not always AI and is definitely not townie so so many players yelling at each other because of it feels slightly off.

These two posts are contradictory. Yes, I say we lock him as scum.

*Probably not scum with Alora or Hiraki based on some comments in 164.

Spoiler: MultiLevel Irony

Not enough people voting for Hiraki here... Would be great if people could explain why, making reference to my watertight case against him!

I'll read and see if I buy the case

did you end up reading?

Note: This does NOT mean I SR Hiraki.

Now tell who's not reading (or rather is not

comprehending

what they read).

I'm not really up for discussing it. You can read my completed game / ask Looker/Hiraki for meta.

OK. Can you please provide a read list in one post? I don't really care if you have too many nulls. I just want something to check back on when we do have flips. Thanks in advance.

This is suspicious to me. I don't see the point of this question given 378 and 366. It reads as someone wanting to get in their brownie points.

=/Tet

345

I actually like Almost's tone. I'll need to dig into his meta. I'm sleepy at the moment and going to bed. I still don't want to vote, but to appease Ico I'll go here for the time being. I didn't realize how little Almost has given. Regarding 431 I've caught scum on something similar before, getting in on questioning me for something I had already promised to provide later.

VOTE: Almost

[72offsuit]

They are both pushes in bad faith made to set me up to fail regardless of my responses.

K, i get the case u r making against Ico now.

Not getting any real townie intent from Ico

VOTE: Ico

[72offsuit]

@ Looker - care to join in on the Ico wagon?

We can go for an Allomancer lynch tomorrow.

Come join the Ico lynch wagon train... Choo choo choo

[72offsuit]

Wow A50 is up to 4 days AWOL.

Is a replacement in the pipeline?

[72offsuit]

VOTE: Hiraki

[72offsuit]

Wow A50 is up to 4 days AWOL.

Is a replacement in the pipeline?

VOTE: 72offsuit

This is a minor scumslip in my book. Considering D2 had only started less than 36 hours there's no way one would think of checking how long a player hasn't posted unless they themselves were posting during the night. It's not like I could have posted in a locked thread you know, and it makes no sense to call for a replacement that fast either.

No... its called activity overview in the bottom right corner. You hadn't posted in what felt like forever.

[72offsuit]

I think I'm somewhere about here in terms of town to scum scale

Tet

Iconeum
Looker

Almost50 ejjinami
Aloratom
Battle Mage
Hiraki

That's a pretty sad state of affairs with Looker at null being 3rd from the top. Essentially 5 player lynch pool as of right now for tomorrow does not sound promising.

[72offsuit]

Wow A50 is up to 4 days AWOL.

Is a replacement in the pipeline?

VOTE: 72offsuit

This is a minor scumslip in my book. Considering D2 had only started less than 36 hours there's no way one would think of checking how long a player hasn't posted unless they themselves were posting during the night. It's not like I could have posted in a locked thread you know, and it makes no sense to call for a replacement that fast either.

No... its called activity overview in the bottom right corner. You hadn't posted in what felt like forever.

Why does this matter right now?

I saw it on flipping back a page in looking for Alora's last post to iso him, so i responded.
Why wouldnt it matter? There are still 6 players I feel I have to sort out their alignment

[72offsuit]

A50 is pretty high on the list given he is in the middle, and I have 4 scumread/leans for only 2 scum

[72offsuit]

Wow A50 is up to 4 days AWOL.

Is a replacement in the pipeline?

VOTE: 72offsuit

This is a minor scumslip in my book. Considering D2 had only started less than 36 hours there's no way one would think of checking how long a player hasn't posted unless they themselves were posting during the night. It's not like I could have posted in a locked thread you know, and it makes no sense to call for a replacement that fast either.

No... its called activity overview in the bottom right corner. You hadn't posted in what felt like forever.

Why does this matter right now?

What are your thoughts Re: A50?

[72offsuit]

weren't you trying to lynch me at the end of last day?

Yes, mainly because Madoka was calling for your lynch, but given allom flipped scum things have changed.

And yes, it is indeed sad that you sit that high on the ladder.

[72offsuit]

how the fuck is battle mage so low you were trying to work with him yesterday to lynch me

is that list inverted?

Where did I ever say I thought he was town?
I wanted to see if he was willing to wagon on you or not.
If you are both scum than I'm more than happy for him to bus you there.

[72offsuit]

They are both pushes in bad faith made to set me up to fail regardless of my responses.

K, i get the case u r making against Ico now.

Not getting any real townie intent from Ico

VOTE: Ico

@ Looker - care to join in on the Ico wagon?

We can go for an Allomancer lynch tomorrow.

Come join the Ico lynch wagon train... Choo choo choo

You were

actively

seeking support to lynch me, on a wagon mostly pushed by battle mage

and now you scumread battle mage and townread me? based on what?

Madoka was pushing your wagon and I town read Mad.

I just said, based on the Allom flip

[72offsuit]

And yes, it is indeed sad that you sit that high on the ladder.

I'd almost ask if I can use that in my sig rofl

it's genuinly making me laugh

feel free, lol.
But yeah. Like I said. Scum heaven this game.

[72offsuit]

how the fuck is battle mage so low you were trying to work with him yesterday to lynch me

is that list inverted?

Where did I ever say I thought he was town?
I wanted to see if he was willing to wagon on you or not.
If you are both scum than I'm more than happy for him to bus you there.

battle mage was pushing me well before madoka was doing so, and hadn't stopped doing so

So what? I;m not interested who was first on the wagon.
I';m interested in wagons on scummy players and wagons on which my town reads are on, and inversely interested in wagons delegitmised by scumreads being on them

[72offsuit]

I'd like to start this by addressing how I think optimal scum is played - I don't think you do it by careful meticulous planning. My best scum games have been ones where everyone just

vibes

together. Sure, there's a general plan of "don't lynch each other" but other than that, it's very free flow. I still think that is the best way to do things outside of a PR perspective. This is exactly where we are on Day 1. However, I am aware that most people don't really think this way and I consciously think that in my scumhunting.

Hide: every night, you may PM me with the name of someone who you want to hide behind. If that player is a member of the mafia or the vigilante, you will die. If the player you hide behind is targeted for a nightkill by the mafia or vigilante that night, you will die. If you are targeted for a nightkill on a night that you hide behind someone else, that nightkill will not affect you.

Doesnt sound that op. 3 scum. So first night 3/12 = 25 percent chance hide behond scum = insta death.

1/9 chance hide behind town that is being killled thus also die.

Worth noting, i think, is
With a claim, scum knows not to waste a kill opportunity targeting the hider's slot.

A claim for a clear that cant b targeted still sounds +EV.

When I read this post 100 times, 99 times I'm wondering what is the point of this post. Is it to produce content? Yeah, a little. Is it to talk about the hider claim? Sure. But 100 times I feel like there's an underlying complaint here and that's no good for me. Read the following:

Doesnt sound that op. 3 scum. So first night 3/12 = 25 percent chance hide behond scum = insta death.

Now, I know that less than half of the players in this group will be persuaded by this but this ticks me off super hard. This is a complaint through and through. Anyone who is town would be super happy finding something that is "OP", instead this feels like it's a bad sign. If we go on -

1/9 chance hide behind town that is being killled thus also die.

Worth noting, i think, is
With a claim, scum knows not to waste a kill opportunity targeting the hider's slot.

A claim for a clear that cant b targeted still sounds +EV.

This is borderline scum coaching without a PT. It's subtle and I don't expect anyone to be persuaded by this but I really wanted to hone in why this read has stuck with me since the absolute beginning.

Perhaps later. I am sure the true tells will show soon enough or I will be wrong.

I even note that here that the above isn't worth arguing over or making a big stink over but now that we're here, cats out of the bag. The true tells are here, by the way.

Posts are all Information instead of analysis.
Pretty much only setup speculation. Zero reads. Zero player analysis.

Let's stop here for a second too. If anyone can find any reads instead of analysis from 72 before this point, please let me know. The only thing you get close to is a TvT callout which is just information

without

analysis (something that is just as bad, if not worse, than IIoA).

Allomancer's setup spec was useless, unlike several others which were actually useful eg: tet, Madoka, DK.

This is an

opinion

of his analysis rather than Allomancer actually only giving IIoA. The tell is used incorrectly as noted here. I think Ico even points this out and I agree with him but I am not checking myself at 1:40. I just sort of remembering agreeing from behind the computer when I read his posts at 72.

This questioning of Allom gives me a fake/forced/pre-prepared vibe. Getting a scum-scum vibe from this interaction.
Allom already outed some superficial reads after i pressed him.

Again, opinion, not really concrete and not really diving into detail. But it's post 156 - we don't really need to get into that.

Lynch preferences: 1.Allomancer

We're 200 posts later and 72 is still tunneling on Allomancer? There's no read progression here. I'm literally re-reading his ISO and didn't pick up on this the first time because I already marked him. When 72 flips scum, Allomancer is like super confirmed town.

Allom - reasons stated earlier. Post since then have been pretty much NAI, so still just a scumlean.

Reasons stated earlier are

still

setup speculation made in post 115 and 116. Allomancer has done a TON since then and 72 is just parking and lurking on the wagon.

@ Alora, so, do you still agree with Hiraki's post here?

[72offsuit]

Village Idiot (VI for short) is slang for a player who seems to habitually say or do the wrong things, then not understand the consequences of saying them. Most of the time, this tendency is due to inexperience with the game. Other times, it is due to poor intelligence or social skills on the part of the player. Still other times, the person saying these wrong things really is scum.

Let's continue on from here.

Aggression and confidence can be good if you have something strong to back it up. You don't, so seems like it's just an act (which is trait of a scum player). Especially when you opened up with "hello, this is my first non-newbie game", which was about as soft as it gets, and by page 4 you'd moved to stuff like:

"I implore people to put pressure on orange and make them explain themselves."
"If something speaks like scum, then it probably is scum."



For above reasons, and the transparent threat to vote for me even though you are apparently convinced that orange is scum, I'd be comfortable lynching you today.

It might be your first game, but panicking about 1 vote on Page 4 isn't a good look.

dkkoba, you're not wrong about the logic, obviously. You might be right about orange, but I'm not convinced for the moment. I think the idea that putting pressure on orange to "explain themselves" is a fools errand - clearly orange can't explain it satisfactorily, so you're setting him up to fail.

All of the above quotes are overconfident, over-assuming, and even down-right wrong at times but come from a town perspective than a scum perspective. This is before Battle Mage calls me out for the "shade" rather than the truth. This isn't something I want to discuss anymore so I'm not going to and I'm going to stick to my rules.

I think I'm good on this game atm. I have a townpool that I don't want to mess around with. The following people are

not

in that pool and I would be OK with lynching any of them: 72, happy, DrDolittle, Looker, ejji. Would not be surprised if the scumteam is in this range.

Lol, gotta love this lynchpool.

[72offsuit]

Last post in 1110. Feels like scum that's given up.

[72offsuit]

Slots soft defending Allomancer day 1: Ico, Hiraki, Looker kind of.
Slots soft defending Allomancer day 2: Hiraki, 72

Only adding Looker because yeah he questioned around Allomancer. Even made the assertation that I was SvS with Allo but refused to throw a vote in either direction. Normally I'd probably tunnel this but we're playing in the upside down right now.

Where townreads are free game.
Why would I ever vote my scumreads?!?
This guy hasn't pushed on town yet, get him!!

Hiraki is most likely scum on a red Allo flip. 72 is a potential partner based on voting habits which is about all that should be counted on right now. Hiraki can be scum with a third outside of 72 however but It gets fuzzy from there and it would have to be tracker/hider that make up the difference and clear the big picture up.

Agree, don't see Hiraki flipping town, avoiding the Allom lynch, alongside the garbage double down tunnel on me.

The problem with your theory tet, as to me being scum based on the voting on Alo, is that I voted for Allom early day 1, and the only reason the wagon disbanded was because our now-confirmed dead clears DDL and DK both voted elsewhere. Yeah, I could;ve been bussing, but i dont see where your theory lies with me bussing on day 1 but then defending day 2? Its just inconsistent.

Zero town cred to BM for that lolhammer, there was plenty of sentiment for an Allom lynch. Townlean/read by literally noone.

In hindsight I probs shudv seen that Allom was scum given he was saying "72 is obvtown" without quoting a single post of mine to explain his stance.

Feeling a little more comfortable about tet and Ico given both are willing to lynch Hiraki and BM.

Looker still pretty null, but at least was on the Allom wagon early.

Alora is just meh. The "72 is scum because he is confused' still doesnt make sense, given I was clearly not confused in my scum-game with him.
The agreement with garbage-case 691 is not pro-town, there is literally 0 content Re: what could possibly be scum-intent/motivation in Hiraki's case.

Don;t like 927, stating pre-flip association of players who are not scum together this early in the game. Particularly when those duos include town - yes, yes, i know me calling my self town doesnt work from your collective PoV, but it holds for me.

Also Don;t like 1152 reiterating scumread on me. It's pretty clear thats where his stance was so the repetition feels like scum lining up a mislynch the following day.

Still not overly keen on A50's slot, particular the vote being left on orange upon replacing in from ejji.

[72offsuit]

Sry, my posts are out of order, this one was in the other tab

[72offsuit]

I can say now that we have 1 down that the SvS reads people had on me vs Allo were garbage. But whatever it took to get town to shut up and Lynch scum.

Who said Allom vs u was SvS?

[72offsuit]

72offsuit is scum; I agree. Why not Allomancer though?

72offsuit is still my #1 SR

I'll lay out a case on 72 Day 3.

We're ready now.

---

• @72offsuit: Do you realize how suspicious it is that you tried to pull me from Allomancer? (I feel Hiraki tried to do the same thing)
  
• Why doesn't Battle Mage use vote tags and what was Hiraki's case against me?
  • Also, why was Battle Mage fighting Allomancer's lynch yesterday?
• @Ico: I'm not engaged. I'm always at work and I want to go home.

VOTE: 72offsuit

Hm yeah that makes a lot of sense.
Though it is also dependant on if ico is scum or not.
Me pulling !townLooker from scum-Allom onto !scumIco would not be scummy.
I would argue that allom was the easiest scum given noone townread him, his posts were not game-progressing. And thus the most bussable. Yes, i know that i wasnt voting him nor had in my lynchpool. But does anyone disagree with me here.

[72offsuit]

I would ask though, what makes yoi prwferencr myself over Hiraki given you said you felt Hiraki was pulling you off allom too?

[72offsuit]

As for scum defending scum. As scum i wouldnt defend scummy scum partner. If there was someone with town cred on the scoreboard, sure but i feel defending allom is -EV here as scum

[72offsuit]

battlemage/72offsuit/hiraki

yeah i'm adding 72 in there, anyone wanna argue with me on that?

in any case, i think 2 scum in these 3

you saying this makes me think Hiraki could be town. Already feel 72 as town. I'm so obviously town it's painful.

Hmmm.

Im still struggling to see !TownIco seeing myself being a team with Hiraki, and also to a lesser extent BM. So im not really sure y u r throwing me into ypur scumpool if ur top 2 scumreads are BM and hiraki.

Something just feels like its not adding up For both to be scum here based on your post here.

[72offsuit]

How do my reads suck?
Who are the last 2 scum then BM?

[72offsuit]

step by step post at 10 yr old level
1. Ico says scum team is among Hiraki/BM/72
2. I say me being scum partnered with Hiraki makes no sense, and me being scum with BM makes little sense.
3. Im saying Ico is scummy here for proposing said scumpool, because i dont think its believable from a town point of view.
4. I conclude that something just feels like its not adding up For both Hiraki and BM to be scum here based Icos post

Comprende?

[72offsuit]

They are townleans by the skinniest of margins ever. I wouldnt be surprised if both were scum.

[72offsuit]

step by step post at 10 yr old level
1. Ico says scum team is among Hiraki/BM/72
2. I say me being scum partnered with Hiraki makes no sense, and me being scum with BM makes little sense.
3. Im saying Ico is scummy here for proposing said scumpool, because i dont think its believable from a town point of view.
4. I conclude that something just feels like its not adding up For both Hiraki and BM to be scum here based Icos post

Comprende?

I'm with you up to 3, 4 only really works if you assume Ico is scum. But he's like your top townread or something?

No. I was willing to lynch Ico yesterday and given on reflection now, Allom feels like such a guiltfree bus for scum, that im giving less towncred for those on the wagon

[72offsuit]

So te be perfectly frank, everyone deserves to be lynched today, except me

Right now, Hiraki moreso than anyone else.

[72offsuit]

They are townleans by the skinniest of margins ever. I wouldnt be surprised if both were scum.

Then, in the nicest possible way, your reads system isn't very useful.

Lol, true. But thats where my heads at.
Ye Ico should probably be lower.
Getiing a bit better vibes from you now.

Still waiting to hear more from Alora.

Still waiting on more thoughts by looker re: who i would be partnered with as scum

[72offsuit]

I'm going to go with my heart today, and

Vote: Tet

Ok... But what about your stance on everyone else?
You ridiculed my reads list. Where are you at with everyone else

[72offsuit]

Ive just realised what the problem with this game is.
An epiphany.
Noone is posting townreads of anyone else, only scumreads and the scum cases are mostly crap.
Thus no town block, no PoE solving to get scum.

[72offsuit]

I'm going to go with my heart today, and

Vote: Tet

Ok... But what about your stance on everyone else?
You ridiculed my reads list. Where are you at with everyone else

I don't think that's important for now. Let's just lynch scum today and move onwards and upwards.

They are townleans by the skinniest of margins ever. I wouldnt be surprised if both were scum.

Then, in the nicest possible way, your reads system isn't very useful.

Lol, true. But thats where my heads at.
Ye Ico should probably be lower.
Getiing a bit better vibes from you now.

Still waiting to hear more from Alora.

Still waiting on more thoughts by looker re: who i would be partnered with as scum

If you trust me, you should consider joining me on Tet, and see what happens. Might generate something of value.

Thats y i don't trust you. You dont state your reads which lets! Scumyou keep your lynchpool open and your thoughts/statements cant b challenged.

And u dont want to lynch hiraki.

[72offsuit]

Someone you're not.

Then explain how you got them confused with me. Because you're referring to this mysterious offset character as hammering their partner, but they didn't, I did.

So what are you talking about?

You are admitting to hammering your partner? Coolbeans

[72offsuit]

K. Im still good with Hiraki. BM #2 AORN.

[72offsuit]

you had a case on me?

I was talking to offset.

Are you an accountant? Tax offsets on your mind?

[72offsuit]

So are we lynching today or voting no lynch?
We have an even number of players which usually suggests a no lynch, pls correct me if im derping.

[72offsuit]

woohoo, a two-way bus with 1 scum down and a tracker live. Yeah, definitely a thing.

[72offsuit]

weren't you trying to lynch me at the end of last day?

Yes, mainly because Madoka was calling for your lynch, but given allom flipped scum things have changed.

And yes, it is indeed sad that you sit that high on the ladder.

call it whatever, but you have literally no grounds to put me up so high. it was a faked readlist no matter what you call it

step by step post at 10 yr old level
1. Ico says scum team is among Hiraki/BM/72
2. I say me being scum partnered with Hiraki makes no sense, and me being scum with BM makes little sense.
3. Im saying Ico is scummy here for proposing said scumpool, because i dont think its believable from a town point of view.
4. I conclude that something just feels like its not adding up For both Hiraki and BM to be scum here based Icos post

Comprende?

1) yes
2) ngl, i hadn't even considered associatives when i made that. It was just a list of the most scummy slots imo
3) ahhhh thanks #Town!Ico.never.does.that.
4) what a strange remark to make about your

top townread

They are townleans by the skinniest of margins ever. I wouldnt be surprised if both were scum.

Then, in the nicest possible way, your reads system isn't very useful.

Lol, true. But thats where my heads at.
Ye Ico should probably be lower.
Getiing a bit better vibes from you now.

Still waiting to hear more from Alora.

Still waiting on more thoughts by looker re: who i would be partnered with as scum

and the moment you get called out on your bullshit ico!townread you back out of it lol

It wasnt a townread it was a slight townlean
Don;t twist my words.

[72offsuit]

They are townleans by the skinniest of margins ever. I wouldnt be surprised if both were scum.

this has got to be a fencesitting record of sorts

'this person is my top townread, but could easily be scum'

Fair call, but at the same time its on all of town for not being more pro-town and the lack of meaningful scumhunting.

[72offsuit]

what i mean by not getting it is: why am i placed over basicly the entire playerlist if you think i could be scum THAT easily still

Because ive got very few town vibes from you throughout so far.

[72offsuit]

72, did you read my post on battle mage?

thoughts?

Ye, i think youve got a decent case there.

Particularly the "based on evidence", without BM actually specifying what posts he was referring to,
As well as the "he could be scum" preceding the hammer

The "baiting hider to go onto allom" seems pretty blatant, but given i didn't pick up on it, idk.

If the hiraki wagon doesn't take off then im good with a BM lynch.

[72offsuit]

72 bad readlist can be explained by town who just don't know where they are

Why are you calling it bad?
I might be right with hiraki and BM.
Sure theres not a lot of substance, but sometimes.... All you need is gut... Gut... Gut is all you need...

[72offsuit]

My reads have been bad this game, oh well. Maybe I'm off somewhere with 72 scum. I can join Ico because his reads have been correct so far. Don't mind if that means me at the end of the day either (not WIFOMing, just think that town is in a great position to take the W here when my reads have been called garbage and have been wrong as well).

weren't you trying to lynch me at the end of last day?

If I'm being honest, I initially scumread these flipflops (as noted before) but I think this may just be 72's townstyle which would make his scumstyle more conservative. I am sticking to the fact that it does not align with his meta but I am not one to think meta is the end all anyway.

Last post in 1110. Feels like scum that's given up.

Not a very smart scum move to give up in this scenario.

If there's a read that I

do

trust, it's that Tet is town.

Like at this point if you're town BM. You are the biggest obstacle for the rest of town to reach their wincon.

Town - Aloratom, Looker, BM, prob A50

Leaves the Poe at: Hiraki, 72, Ico

Ico doesn't leave my alive if I have him nailed on flipping the Allo wagon day 1 into 2 consecutive town wagons and then kill off Madoka who was pushing him the hardest. That's a lot of heat, seeing madoka targeted seemed like a setup kill on first impression.

I also trust my Looker read. BM is starting to lean into a "SI" read but I don't really know this game anymore.

Mostly town needs you to stop talking, almost completely.

This fuels it. What doesn't fuel it is the hammer and that's keeping me from going my own style of rogue again. I'm parking my vote here - I don't see a scenario where Looker flips town and I think people are bypassing him because they think lack of content isn't good enough for a scumread. It's not but having no content and skimming by without giving any valuable reads is. I think Madoka(?) was pushing into that at end of D2. My memory could be wrong though.

Vote: Looker

"Great position to take the W" (win)
after 2 town died in 1 night, down 2 PRs, and we are at awkward 6v2.

This is not coming from a town mindset.

[72offsuit]

Don't mind if that means me at the end of the day either

LAMIST.

[72offsuit]

Z y does the quote have my name instead of Hiraki's

[72offsuit]

Unintentional pagetop... Shucks, Im a natural talent

[72offsuit]

Need more votes on Hiraki.

[72offsuit]

VOTE: 72

VOTE: BM

What's up with this?
Big spiel on BM and yhen you voted me?

[72offsuit]

What of the above do I do exclusively with you that I don't do with other people?

So you admit it?

Spoiler:

All this sounds like you don't want to be held accountable for your actions. You get to keep tunneling me while avoiding Allomancer and 72offsuit and blaming it on "bad reads". You're scum.

You haven't justified or explained your Looker "read". When asked to do so, you become disgruntled. Is this your interpretation of a power wolf?

Also, regarding lack of content: You actively disengage with me. You ask me no questions and don't answer any of the questions I ask you. Your ~case on me is manufactured.

Just because you NK'd Madoka for WIFOM doesn't mean you're some scum mastermind - you're going to have to try harder than that

Once again, though, I refuse to let you detract me from your partner. It didn't work with Allomancer, and it won't work with 72offsuit.

from the first lynch: one of 72/Looker is probably scum. I don't expect all 3 scum on the first town wagon but I would be weirded out if it was just one scum.

I also see where you get one of me/72 is scum now too, I guess. At least a little harder.

The irrelevance of you being "weirded out" aside, why would you choose a 50% chance of Looker being scum instead of 72 over a 100% chance of 72 being scum instead of Looker or yourself? The odds point to 72 scum, but you're actively protecting him the way you tried to protect Allomancer.

---

• @Aloratom: I feel your thinking is why bussing is so effective. Of course 72 is going to argue that he can't be scum because of what he did; I don't see how that's alignment-indicative.

1.What is with the percentages, where ate you deriving these?

2. "The odds point to 72 scum"
What "odds" are you referring to?

[72offsuit]

Ebwop: are*

[72offsuit]

What of the above do I do exclusively with you that I don't do with other people?

So you admit it?

Spoiler:

All this sounds like you don't want to be held accountable for your actions. You get to keep tunneling me while avoiding Allomancer and 72offsuit and blaming it on "bad reads". You're scum.

You haven't justified or explained your Looker "read". When asked to do so, you become disgruntled. Is this your interpretation of a power wolf?

Also, regarding lack of content: You actively disengage with me. You ask me no questions and don't answer any of the questions I ask you. Your ~case on me is manufactured.

Just because you NK'd Madoka for WIFOM doesn't mean you're some scum mastermind - you're going to have to try harder than that

Once again, though, I refuse to let you detract me from your partner. It didn't work with Allomancer, and it won't work with 72offsuit.

from the first lynch: one of 72/Looker is probably scum. I don't expect all 3 scum on the first town wagon but I would be weirded out if it was just one scum.

I also see where you get one of me/72 is scum now too, I guess. At least a little harder.

The irrelevance of you being "weirded out" aside, why would you choose a 50% chance of Looker being scum instead of 72 over a 100% chance of 72 being scum instead of Looker or yourself? The odds point to 72 scum, but you're actively protecting him the way you tried to protect Allomancer.

---

• @Aloratom: I feel your thinking is why bussing is so effective. Of course 72 is going to argue that he can't be scum because of what he did; I don't see how that's alignment-indicative.

From your posts, i get the impression you scumread Hiraki moreso than myself. But your vote is on me.
1. What's the go there?

2. What are your thoughts on BM?

[72offsuit]

@Aloratom: I feel your thinking is why bussing is so effective. Of course 72 is going to argue that he can't be scum because of what he did; I don't see how that's alignment-indicative.

What do you think about Ico's read on BattleMage?

why would anyone care about his read? he's scum dude...

This doesn't come from a town mindset either.
1. The confidence in the read does not feel genuine
2. From your PoV, getting opinions from others on your suspected scum target,
would provide valuable information regarding the alignment of the person reading your scumread.

[72offsuit]

Unvote, Vote: No Lynch

Give our tracker the best chance.

Why did you not reply earlier when i asked re: lynch or no lynch?

[72offsuit]

what i mean by not getting it is: why am i placed over basicly the entire playerlist if you think i could be scum THAT easily still

Because ive got very few town vibes from you throughout so far.

ok but you haven't exactly been the shining beacon of Towniness either

Shrugs. It's not a competition who can b the most townie.
I'm just explaining why I thought that even though I townleaned you, you could easily flip scum.

[72offsuit]

feels pressured, and then pushes the no information No Lynch after he denied us having Dkkoba's clear from the previous day
doesn't give any reads about any other slot then myself IIRC

Pushing him on the no lynch idea is poor.

No lynching isn't a terrible option since it doesn't remove towns mislynch.

The actual issue with no lynching today is that with 2 scum alive, Tracker can only hard guilty. Vs 1 scum alive where tracker can hard confirm town as well.

Aaaaaaaah. I see. Finally it makes sense why we dont NL

[72offsuit]

If Hiraki flips town (I highly doubt) 72 is the second scum slot and it will bring the game to 3v1 the day phase after scum death. With the possibility of tracker/tracker clear/hider clear being the final 3 town alive.

Hiraki flipping scum puts us at 5v1 next day phase with the same possible number of conftown. A scum nk outside of those three ends the game.

Of course a tracker guilty ends the game in either scenario as well.

Why are you so convinced if Hiraki flips town that I am scum?

[72offsuit]

Follow-up questions. Do you think Hiraki flips town? Do you think I'm scum if Hiraki flips town?

I think he is scum. Ridiculous tunnel on me, very few townie vibes, posts dont feel like they r comong from a town mindset.

Hiraki is scummy. If he is town, !towntet lynches him for his scumminess, and !scumtet lynches for an easy mislynch. I think you still lean town regardless of the flip.

[72offsuit]

I feel like this game hinges on Tet being town. If he's town, we've got a chance. If he's scum, we're screwed, because nobody else seems to have enough of a backbone to challenge him. 72offsuit - weak. Iconeum - super weak. Aloratom - solid but mostly on the sidelines.

I guess we have to lynch Hiraki then, but I won't be the hammer today!

Unvote, Vote: Hiraki

That's a begrudging L-1, old buddy, old pal

@everyone but @tet in particular

look at me and tell me with a straight face this post is not giving you the creeps

Im not getting any bad vibes off this post. Had the same sentiment in my newbie game with masons.

I town read Atarashi and Clidd. several others did too.
I said if Atarashi or clidd are scum then town loses.

[72offsuit]

Post 589 in Newbie 1989

[72offsuit]

I'm going to go with my heart today, and

Vote: Tet

where did you make the switch from wanting to lynch Tet into sheeping Tet on his desired lynch? the lynch you specifically said you didn't want today IIRC

Ico - my gut is telling me no, my mind is telling me yes. Convince my gut that I can vote 72 again and I'm back to being bullheaded.

and the posts like these make me think we should just lynch hiraki - avoiding responsability for potentially changing his read/vote

I feel like this game hinges on Tet being town. If he's town, we've got a chance. If he's scum, we're screwed, because nobody else seems to have enough of a backbone to challenge him. 72offsuit - weak. Iconeum - super weak. Aloratom - solid but mostly on the sidelines.

I guess we have to lynch Hiraki then, but I won't be the hammer today!

Unvote, Vote: Hiraki

That's a begrudging L-1, old buddy, old pal

literal flares going off in my head every time i read this post, and considering these happened:

I'm toying with Tet as the right open today - probably need a re-read, and I see Aloratom has stolen my gimmick!

BM is now sheeping his scumread, the one he wanted lynched today

maybe Tet is scum, or maybe he is just bad town

ok so maybe not scumreading, but just town having bad reads. makes sense to sheep that, right?

And ftr, I am sheeping Tet again today. yesterday I said I was sheeping Madoka but ended up sheeping Tet and it worked out fine, so why not again?

@offset: Again, yes.. it did say I hadn't posted for a long time, but that "long time" included a NIGHT time. Like that's always the case at the start of a new day. All players had not posted for at least the duration of the night.

Anyway, I am not sure why scum!you hammers their scum p there, so I'm shelving my case on you for now.

you had a case on me?

sheeping people is dumb

I'm putting this out here in case i'm the one who dies tonight, and have ya'll remember to lynch this tomorrow if I can't push it through today

i'm not touching hiraki wagon with 2 of my 3 lynchpool on it, i don't think scum are eager to bus here

Why dont you think scum bus here?
Please explain. Its a scummy slot so scum looks bad for being offwagon if Hiraki is scum.
If Hiraki is scum then from your PoV, only obe of me and BM could be scum so your " 2 of my 3 lynchpool on it" makes no sense.
Do you think BM and myself are a likely team?

[72offsuit]

Post #589 (isolation #86) » Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:24 pm

The lack of a counter-wagon is odd. I guess with esqy not voting it reduces the ability of a counter-wagon. I really hope this is a town-block game. If clidd/ata are scum then we were screwed anyway with the whacky start to this game

[72offsuit]

Im saying i feel the same as BM does about tet. If tet is scum town is screwed anyway

[72offsuit]

So i dont get why u get bad vibes off that post. He has several other scummy posts but i don't feel that's one of them

[72offsuit]

Why dont you think scum bus here? Please explain. Its a scummy slot so scum looks bad for being offwagon if Hiraki is scum. If Hiraki is scum then from your PoV, only obe of me and BM could be scum so your " 2 of my 3 lynchpool on it" makes no sense. Do you think BM and myself are a likely team?

i don't think scum are eager to bus here, because they just lost one already. scum want to go to tomorrow with 2 because that's lylo
'scum being offwagon if player x flips scum looks bad' is a generic statement that applies to all scum lynches
i think BM is a lot scummier slot then hiraki tbh

i don't think it's exactly you and hiraki, you were on hiraki very early today with your push and i really really don't think that's a scum play

What DO you think I would do here as scum today?

[72offsuit]

So i dont get why u get bad vibes off that post. He has several other scummy posts but i don't feel that's one of them

the way he 'begrudginly' votes on a slot that he didn't wanna lynch today, because Tet (the slot that BM DID want to lynch today) is pushing there
it's not about the 'if tet is town' statement at all, it's about everything else in that post

'i guess we have to lynch hiraki then' -> from his PoV, why? Because his scumread Tet wants that lynch? And then sheeps his scumread that he pushed today? After calling A50 out for sheeping Tet?

I don't see how you don't get pinged from that

Right. Ye i sort of see where you are coming from. But im just really struggling to see Hiraki as town.
He said Hiraki was scum or bad town.

I myself sheeped DK on orange, when i thought orange was more likely town than scum.

[72offsuit]

What DO you think I would do here as scum today?

i don't know you tell me?

Im asking you the question. You are responding to a question with a question -_-

[72offsuit]

He said Hiraki was scum or bad town.

that was about Tet, no?

Ye, i meant tet

[72offsuit]

K.

[72offsuit]

Boom, another accidental pagetop

[72offsuit]

Ok, im more confident u r town now.
I dont think scum engages in live to-and-fro, tete-a-tete if you can forgive the pun, like this.

[72offsuit]

What DO you think I would do here as scum today?

i don't know you tell me?

Im asking you the question. You are responding to a question with a question -_-

i'm not gonna pretend like i know the answer to your question, because i don't

Well you said you DONT think i would comE out of the gate at hiraki if i was scum. So i wanted to check the veracity of this by seeing what you thought that i would do as scum.

[72offsuit]

@ Alora - where r u at?