Mini Normal 2130: Mafia From Home [Game Over]

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: Mage

Let’s do battle.

[Luca Blight]

I believe profii. Easy Day 1.

UNVOTE: Looker
VOTE: Saudade

I've decided I'm going to town read this. It took some consideration

Can you explain your thought-process behind this?

[Luca Blight]

Riabi’s questions/confusion feels somewhat genuine. Light TR there.

[Luca Blight]

Although I’d like to know why he voted Saudade when he seemed entirely unsure how to take the claim.

Jesus this site is slow recently btw.

[Luca Blight]

Although I’d like to know why he voted Saudade when he seemed entirely unsure how to take the claim.

This site seems really slow atm.

[Luca Blight]

Sausage makes this early mason claim in every game of his. Just pretend you're impressed and say he's a funny boi. That should make him feel validated.

Yes it was my impression that it was a joke too. But I think it would have been better to let the players involved talk their way out of it then deflate the situation yourself.

Don't you think it would have been better for Saudade to answer for himself?

Unless I'm mistaken, you didn't actually ask Saudade anything...

In fact, I don't really understand why you didn't, when you were very adamant that you wanted Profii to confirm there were no masons in the game, for some reason??

Unvote, Vote: Zantetsu

for being a bit overly aggressive and defensive for page 2.

I don’t like or agree with any of the reasoning in this post.

[Luca Blight]

Riabi’s questions/confusion feels somewhat genuine. Light TR there.

How is it genuine??

The way he continually asks about it when he hadn’t received a direct answer seems like he genuinely wants to understand (although if scum don’t have day chat this could be NAI thinking about it). I also found his meta research of Saudade to ascertain motive for his claim townie.

[Luca Blight]

Although I’d like to know why he voted Saudade when he seemed entirely unsure how to take the claim.

Jesus this site is slow recently btw.

Because if he is town, it seems like a dumb thing to say.

My vote is currently staying on him because he appears to be avoiding direct questions about what he's doing, and I think that's anti-town.

So right now are you leaning towards him being scum or a ‘bad’ townie?

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: Profii

I’m not seeing any drive from him so far.

It feels like he’s doing the bare minimum and not really questioning/sorting as i’d expect him to as Town in this gamestate.

[Luca Blight]

To be fair I think that is probably the most effective way I've seen a game leave RVS

Here he’s sitting back and admiring his work, trying to milk a bit of credit for moving the game out of RVS, but he doesn’t do anything with it. All he says is this:

I believe profii. Easy Day 1.

UNVOTE: Looker
VOTE: Saudade

I've decided I'm going to town read this. It took some consideration

Which doesn’t really do anything to move the game further.

[Luca Blight]

I believe profii. Easy Day 1.

UNVOTE: Looker
VOTE: Saudade

I've decided I'm going to town read this. It took some consideration

Can you explain your thought-process behind this?

Initially my knee jerk reaction was why would you town read me not Saudade, but then I figured that normally a claim -> counter claim scenario is typically L-1 on scum, scum make something up, counter claim conflicts it.

Also, if I was scum counter claiming and Saudade flips town mason, then I get lynched straight after, granted that would give scum a couple of night kills, but it means the game would just end up at 2v9 so it makes no sense for me as scum to do that.

This game theory seems a weird mindset when considering a TR here. For a start it’s obvious and shouldn’t need careful consideration, which also makes it NAI as both alignments are aware of this, outside of the newbie queue anyway. The fact Anotora ‘believed’ Profii over Saudade doesn’t say anything for her alignment imo.

My initial thoughts on Anotora’s vote were ‘would Scum be so blatantly opportunistic’ and ‘would Town or scum be more likely to jump the gun in this instance?’ Etc. I am also leaning Town on that particular post, but I dislike Profii’s reasoning.

[Luca Blight]

This is a sensible vote

VOTE: Battle Mage

And this is what I mean by doing the bare minimum. Profii’s coasted for a while now without pushing anyone so it’s as if he thinks ‘i should probably do something to look busy’ so votes an already suspected player without giving any reasoning, then drops out again.

I’ve seen Profii as Town and scum, and this play is much similar to the latter.

[Luca Blight]

I feel there's been some SvS interactions in the last posts but I can't pinpoint who exactly yet, there's too many "scummy" posts.

I don't feel like the last page or so was very natural. I think other than Norwe, I slightly like Zantetsu. Not really a town read but I'm ok with his posts.

Perhaps you can highlight a few of the scummy posts?

The timing of your post makes it seem as though you’re indirectly shading me.

[Luca Blight]

@Churros: Clearly I’m not being self-conscious as I was correct.

I just want to know what exactly was scummy and why, and the indirect shading is weird.

[Luca Blight]

You made that excuse in the scum game as well, and it doesn’t cut it for me.

If you’re Town then please play ‘full speed’ so I can see it. If you’re scum then feel free to continue what you’re doing.

[Luca Blight]

Profii’s reason for holding back doesn’t wash, given he’s doing it not to be SR/lynched but knows I’m going to constantly push his lynch while he’s playing like this.

The reason he’s not going ‘full speed’ is because he’s unable to replicate his Town meta as scum. The difference between his Town and scum game is night and day and I called it correctly last time he was scum as well.

[Luca Blight]

This was from the other game when Profii was scum. As you can see he uses the exact same excuse:

Luca Blight

I played as Masons with Profii before and he was so hungry to push the game forward and find scum, I'm not feeling that at all from him so far.

VOTE: Profii

I'm mostly caught up, but skimmed some parts. I'll start ISO'ing in more detail.

Profii

My thought in that game was I had a solid claim so I could push the game as hard as I like and if I got a lot of pressure I had a self claim.

My role in this game does not self resolve so I cant play like that

Ironically, I expected my Mason-style to attract more scum reads than normal and it seems the opposite is happening here

[Luca Blight]

To be fair I think that is probably the most effective way I've seen a game leave RVS

Here he’s sitting back and admiring his work, trying to milk a bit of credit for moving the game out of RVS, but he doesn’t do anything with it. All he says is this:

I believe profii. Easy Day 1.

UNVOTE: Looker
VOTE: Saudade

I've decided I'm going to town read this. It took some consideration

Which doesn’t really do anything to move the game further.

1. "I can see the milking the credit" point you are making,
But what were you expecting him to "do with it"?

2. He has posted a read on a player. How does this not move the game further?

1. Scumhunt?

2. Saying ‘I think this is town’ then dropping back out of the thread does nothing to move the game forward. Profii maintained his RVS vote and didn’t look to pressure/question anyone or anything after what had occurred. I held back to see if he would start solving but it never happened, as I showed.

[Luca Blight]

Profii’s reason for holding back doesn’t wash, given he’s doing it not to be SR/lynched but knows I’m going to constantly push his lynch while he’s playing like this.

The reason he’s not going ‘full speed’ is because he’s unable to replicate his Town meta as scum. The difference between his Town and scum game is night and day and I called it correctly last time he was scum as well.

I'd much rather make the point that you saw my Mason meta not my generic town meta because I dont want you following me round every game insisting I post more

If I suddenly post more you'll be like "profii is just appeasing me to get my vote off"

I cant win... so I'll do as I please

It’s not about just posting more, it’s about showing a townie mindset and actively solving the game. If you started doing this I’d probably Tr you, but it seems to me that you’re incapable of faking this as scum.

You have to be prodded to explain the few reads and thoughts you give, and as I showed before they don’t really reflect a natural townie mindset.

You also still haven’t explained your Mage vote?

[Luca Blight]

Shading in response to being SR is what Profii did in that scum game as well:

Profii

I have this thought on my mind that Luca is driving hard towards me because we recently played a mason game together so he is scared that i will see exactly what he is claiming to see in me - a different style that would automatically mean a different alignment. Methink one doth one protest too much perhaps?

His play is so similar to that game it’s not even funny.

[Luca Blight]

Here is the game I’m referring to btw: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=81815

The fact Profii is shading me in response to my SR on him, exactly what he did in that game, is a major red flag. As Town it would be natural to think ‘playing to Town meta, more likely town’, not ‘playing to town meta, probably faking it’. It’s a purely defensive measure on Profii’s part to try and discredit what I’m saying.

I’m already convinced this guy is scum and my vote won’t be moving today.

[Luca Blight]

So are you saying you scumread me and/or Luca or not?

it's too early to really say anyone is scummy imo

That’s rubbish and you know it.

How about you explain your Mage vote?

[Luca Blight]

I could also say Norgey boy is probably a bit wary of me because I randomly scum caught him recently. I could further speculate he seems to be going for a bit more of a lol poster style to maybe make sure I think he is doing something different than normal so I dont scum read him.

Shading 101. Suggest i'm lol posting just to get townread. Or that i'm somehow afraid of you? Dude, in that game where you "caught me" you weren't even my biggest problem. Your case on me wasn't even good.

Interesting that you jump to calling it shade and not paranoia from a townie. But you did prove my point about why I usually dont openly say things like that... most people dont react well

Ah, so you were going for the ‘townie paranoia’ angle?

Well sorry my friend, but that’s not what townie paranoia looks like. It’s pretty much the definition of shading.

[Luca Blight]

You mean you now think Mage is Town?

[Luca Blight]

We’re currently on page 8. For comparison, check Profii’s play from page 8 of his Town game and see the monumental difference:

Spoiler:

I'd like to see those 5 players take a stance on Luca vs Garmr and I will accept any of SvS, SvT, TvT as long as it comes with a rationale

I don't know for sure, like i said already. It could be a SvT scenario. It's just that i feel more confident going against Kraeg right how. His posts and reason for voting me just doesn't feel right.

so you want me to follow you onto voting Kraeg because it "just doesn't feel right"

you can't say anything about the Luca vs Garmr bit other than it's probably TvT but could be SvT

poor show tbh

VOTE: Norwegianboy

Vote Garmr

I think the PR discussion is scummy. Even if he did it in a game where he's town, that doesn't prove the he's town in this game. It's not like we are in point where PRs have flipped and there is a necessity to discuss scenarios about PRs. The way he tried to identify me as a PR is scummy. A PR discussion would most likely come from scum. Why? because they're the one who's going to look for potential PRs for their nightkill so there's definitely a tendency for scum to open PR discussions. Town would most likely focus on finding scum especially on D1.

Just because I just voted Norge, dont consider yourself off the hook, I asked a specific group of people, which included you, to provide their thoughts on the Luca vs Garmr argument.

Whilst you have said Garmr is more likely to be scum, you've cited the reason that he mentioned PRs but not mentioned anything about Luca.

Give me more man!

How do you feel about Luca?

Is your read of Kraeg changed?

I feel like I was focused trying to find a lead that I just built something on Luca solely based on just trying to find a lead, so looking back I don't think my point was very convincing.

As for Kraeg, the time you posted I still had a slight scum lean on him. After his latest posts, though, I feel like they're far too dynamic with their thoughts/posting and I have an even larger scum lean on him now. Kraeg tells Norwegian to 'forgot about his vote on him because it's just an RVS thing' but his posts earlier imply that he was much more serious about this than he's stating now. Also, I feel like the move to Garmr is far too sudden and invited by the fact that others started the Garmr wagon, but honestly that could be said for multiple players here, I guess.

I haven't really delved into the possibility of a Garmr + Kraeg scum team, on the surface from what I remember it looks a bit unlikely but not impossible.

For the time being I'll go back to VOTE: Kraeg as I feel more confident with a push on him than Garmr with what we have now.

why have you gone from saying Garmr was possibly caught scum to just forgetting about it and voting someone else?

Though I kind of see your logic on Kraeg, I'd be keen to hear more about Garmr and your caught scum comment - also if you have any thoughts on the 1v1 ?

@Profii
Also i never said i wanted you to follow my vote. Which you seem to suggest in post 188.
Not sure why you thought that.

You vote someone because you want to lynch someone

You need a majority to lynch someone

So if you logically want to lynch someone you need people to follow

So youd need me plus others to follow your reasons

But if that's wrong you are voting for someone you dont want to lynch, which is stupid and not the point of the game

viewtopic.php?p=11224085#p11224085

[Luca Blight]

He’s just trying to give away as little info as possible as he’s obviously getting lynched.

I highly doubt he will flip Town.

[Luca Blight]

I agree with everything NorwegianboyEE has said recently.

VOTE: Una

@Profii: your play has been scummy independent of meta - the fact your play so far resembles your scum meta and is opposite to your Town meta is just a strong supporting point. I do not expect two performances to be the same at all, but i do expect to see some solving/townie play from someone who is clearly capable of it. Your Una theory has some merit, but until then you’d shown nothing that resembles a townie thought process whatsoever.

[Luca Blight]

Damn this site is slow.

Why would you ask to be lynched as town? Especially when the guy you’re suspecting is getting wagoned? It feels like some weird reverse-psychology. There are plenty or reasons not to immediately lynch you, regardless of your alignment btw.

I strongly disagree that nothing AI had happened.

[Luca Blight]

If there’s a vig you’re the ideal target anyway given your claim.

I’m actually wondering if Profii/Una is s/s after all. Such weird interactions.

[Luca Blight]

I completely disagree with Una’s view on the game. NorwegianboyEE, Mage and Zant are three of the towniest slots in the game atm, I don’t see why there must be scum within those three.

This is a weird situation because I SR Una, yet his posturing over Profii makes me want to wait and see what comes of it. I’m considering letting him/Profii have a D1 pass, but at the same time reluctant as I think there is a great chance at least one of them is scum.

UNVOTE:

For now.

[Luca Blight]

Churros, Looker, 72, Anotora. I need to sort these players next.

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: Churros

Just from memory I know this is a decent place for my vote.

[Luca Blight]

Churros have an easy, early Tr of NorwegianboyEE and possibly a pocket attempt.

Weird reasoning in 54. He explains it a bit more later but it’s still weird and I don’t vibe with it at all.

And just before his V/LA he did some weird indirect shading. I had just made my Profii case, but he didn’t comment on it at all but just said ‘there’s been s/s interactions on the last page or two but I can’t pinpoint exactly what’. This comment felt really out of place and if he was being genuine I’m sure he could have pinpointed something, otherwise it’s useless shading. Churros being S/s with profii is possible as well.

[Luca Blight]

I’m worried about being in a TvS situation with Churros again.

I wouldn't try to openly pocket you so hard as scum but ok.

Just like...don't try to alienate me from the game. I really don't think you're scum by your posts right now. Unless I get irked by some of your posts I'm gonna keep treating you as town/friendly.

I thought this was the purpose of this game...

There’s something about the tone of this post that’s pings me. Feels weirdly passive-aggressive.

[Luca Blight]

Feels serious/frustrated in a way that I’m not sure would some from town in that situation, and manipulative; as though Churros is subtly threatening NorwegianboyEE that he’ll SR him if Nor continues to ‘irk’ him.

[Luca Blight]

I’m phone posting and don’t have a lot of time so apologies for the typos and multiple posts.

[Luca Blight]

Is there any reason you went for Anotora over Churros?

[Luca Blight]

Any thoughts on my points against Churros?

[Luca Blight]

I'm saying battle mage because I'm looking at my wagon and he still felt a bit under pressure even though I got the join date bit wrong

Not sure if I moved my vote

VOTE: battle mage

Can you go into a little more detail on this? Where was he under pressure?

[Luca Blight]

These are the players I’m willing to lynch as things stand:

Churros, Looker, 72, Anotora. I need to sort these players next.

But need to hear way more from them, particularly Looker and 72.

[Luca Blight]

Deep down I still want to lynch Profii, but trying to let that pass for the time being.

[Luca Blight]

I’ll let him catch-up first. I know he’s capable of obvtowning so I expect to see some decent work from him.

[Luca Blight]

You SR Churros earlier, why won’t you join me on that wagon?

[Luca Blight]

If there’s a vig you’re the ideal target anyway given your claim.

I’m actually wondering if Profii/Una is s/s after all. Such weird interactions.

Early game Luca irked me

Right now I'm just nodding my head vigorously

I recommend to include Riabi on the list as well, his Saudade read isn't consistent, it kinda fluctuates from "must lynch" to "I want him to talk" with no reason.

How did I irk you early game?

Feels serious/frustrated in a way that I’m not sure would some from town in that situation, and manipulative; as though Churros is subtly threatening NorwegianboyEE that he’ll SR him if Nor continues to ‘irk’ him.

These scum reads on me are reachy?

There's a lot of stretchy here, when I threatened Norwe anyway? We came to play this game together and I was in a good mood/being friendly.

I never said any of his posts did "irk" me either therefore the "threat" of scum reading him if he continues to "irk" me comes from nowhere since I never said anything about any of his posts irking me at that moment.

You're just throwing shade at this post.

By the way I town read Saudade for some reason.

It was the underlying impression I got from your post. ‘Don’t alienate me’, for example, seems like a warning. ‘I thought that was the purpose of this game....’, feels unduly serious and frustrated.

It’s subtle, but this is my interpretation of your post, and others seem to agree.

[Luca Blight]

Norwe compromissing on Anotora it's also a bit puzzling. It's not like Una/Profi are really impossible, and Anotora wagon has no resistance like you said, even if I SR her. It simply had not been in the spotlight.

This is some weird shade.

It’s pretty obvious that NorwegianboyEE was pushing Una but, like me, eased off for the reasons Zant detailed. Anotora’s wagon hasn’t grown enough to judge it it’s had ‘resistance’, and if you genuinely SR them you wouldn’t be puzzled by a push there.

[Luca Blight]

My thoughts is that town needs to get their shit together, pick a target. And lynch them. It's time to compromise and see some flips.

Ok norwe feels kind of weird now.

Again, I see no problem with what NorwegianboyEE said?

[Luca Blight]

Hmm and then Churros is suddenly back to NorwegianboyEE being Town again in his next post. I’m not following this progression. I’m also not vibing with his strong Saudade TR, who is a flat null for me right now.

[Luca Blight]

I'm all caught up. That took me a bit more than expected.

I'm gonna sleep with [Saudade, Norwe] as town. I regained my good feelings on Norwe with some of his very recent posts. I'll chalk up his bolder approach here as...I don't know, mood?

I see why people like [Luca, Zan] but as of right now I just don't feel good giving them any town lean. Luca push on me was very very reachy, and Zan town reading Profi for being too scummy is...uh.

Let's do a group exercise. Can you post how many times and specify vaguely who or when you've seen someone town TR a player because "he's too scummy to be scum"?

Now try to remember how many times scum has implied, hinted or outright said that argument.

In my experience it's a lot more characteristic of scum to take the top 1 wagon, look and say "too scummy to be scum". I myself know I use it and see it a lot more from scum, but I've done it as town, however, I had quite some caution towards it, while Zantetsu just...gave away the town read.

It doesn't sit well to me even if the rest of his post is good.

With regards to ‘too scummy to be scum’, I really don’t associate it as coming from one alignment or another. In some cases it’s very much justified, and although I don’t agree with Zant on this point I can see where he’s coming from.

I feel like you’re blowing up this very insignificant thing to cast doubt on a player who is being TR, and possibly to undermine Zant’s view on Profii.

[Luca Blight]

And now Churros has gone from this:

Norwe compromissing on Anotora it's also a bit puzzling. It's not like Una/Profi are really impossible, and Anotora wagon has no resistance like you said, even if I SR her. It simply had not been in the spotlight.

...to this:

I feel indecisive on who to vote here

Four options. Too many for day 1.

I want to engage Una but it's too late for that at the moment.

I'll leave with

VOTE: Anotora

And no-one else has posted in the time between these two posts.

It feels like a perspective slip of sorts; he forgets the opinion he had before, because it was fabricated. This can happen from town, but Churros posted all this in quick succession. It doesn’t make sense how he could shade NorwegianboyEE for wagoing Anotora because there’s no resistance, and the proceed to do so himself a few posts later, without it being disingenuous.

[Luca Blight]

My current theory is that Battle Mage and one of Zantetsu/Norwegianboy are buddies. Evidence leans towards Norwegianboy; I am actually somewhat satisfied now with Zantetsu's town-bolstering effort, certainly much more so than eight pages ago.

Zantetsu/Norweg reads to me strongly as TvS.

Battle Mage's post 339 reads to me as scum trying to play for long-term town credibility by having one scum and one town in the pair he's gunning for. Battle Mage accuses Norweg of buddying up to Zantetsu, yet still sees this as reflecting badly on Zantetsu for some reason. It comes off as reaching for reasons to attack Zant's playerslot.

I'm still rereading the thread. Sorry for my low activity.

What gives you that impression?

[Luca Blight]

Una’s tone is townie recently, although i continue to disagree with his view of the game.

[Luca Blight]

Churros’ reaction to Looker’s vote on him seems over the top.

NorwegianboyEE, is this kind of reaction normal from Town!Churros in your experience?

[Luca Blight]

Where has anyone suspected you for ‘lurking at the weekend’?

That literally hasn’t entered into my thoughts at all, as a lot of people do take weekend V/LA’s.

[Luca Blight]

And now Churros has gone from this:

Norwe compromissing on Anotora it's also a bit puzzling. It's not like Una/Profi are really impossible, and Anotora wagon has no resistance like you said,

even if I SR her.

It simply had not been in the spotlight.

...to this:

I feel indecisive on who to vote here

Four options. Too many for day 1.

I want to engage Una but it's too late for that at the moment.

I'll leave with

VOTE: Anotora

And no-one else has posted in the time between these two posts.

It feels like a perspective slip of sorts; he forgets the opinion he had before, because it was fabricated. This can happen from town, but Churros posted all this in quick succession. It doesn’t make sense how he could shade NorwegianboyEE for wagoing Anotora because there’s no resistance, and the proceed to do so himself a few posts later, without it being disingenuous.

This is again a asinine case and I'm beginning to think you might be scum or disgustingly biased.

You say I'm shading Norwegian for wagoning Anotora when in truth I just said I don't follow why people backed down on Una/Profi so easily.

As a courtesy to your blindness, I highlighted the part on which I do agree with the scum reads on Anotora, which means nothing changed and there is no inconsistency.

It's the second time you put words into my mouth and try to make stretchy reasoning to call me scum. Both of your posts take a issue with something that I never did or happened.

I already addressed those points in an earlier post.

You also said the wagon has no resistance, and you also SR Profii/Una? You’re puzzled about NorwegianboyEE compromising on Anotora, but then you go and do the exact same thing a few posts later.

[Luca Blight]

And just because I’m interpreting the meaning behind your posts, doesn’t mean I’m being predatory or putting words in your mouth. If I took everything everyone says at face value then I wouldn’t get anywhere.

And I’ll just repeat again that being V/La at the weekend had 0% effect on my read on you. There’s been less active slots than you who are less scumread, so your theory holds no water.

[Luca Blight]

Ah ok, I did misread your sentence regarding the resistance. It wasn’t entirely clear.

[Luca Blight]

Regardless of Profii’s alignment, it is productive to at least get a handle on the other players in the game before ending the day. I’m still very much considering a Profii lynch as he’s continuing to do next to nothing.

This is starting to feel a little more like town frustration, so I’ll drop it for now and look elsewhere.

UNVOTE:

[Luca Blight]

I still want more from 72, but I’m ok going with this again now.

VOTE: Profii

I still think he’s scum for all the reasons I stated earlier, plus the fact that as Town I think he’d get a second wind from what happened and have a ‘nothing left to lose’ attitude, but he’s continuing in the same resigned manner.

[Luca Blight]

If Profii’s scum then this has turned out very similar to his other scum game against me:

I pushed hard for his lynch because he was playing so differently from his Town game with me, and when he was about to be lynched he pulled a rabbit out of the hat (a convincing fake claim) and everyone backed off. He then continued playing in a similar manner and got lynched a couple of days later.

[Luca Blight]

Ok now I get your PoV on Profii. We clearly have very different experiences of Town and scum Profii.

If he’s Town then I’d be disappointed because he is so much better than he’s showing here.

I can see the points against Anotora as well. I think they’re both decent options but I’m happy with my vote.

[Luca Blight]

I really want to hear more from 72 as well. He’s been active generally on site so hopefully he will do some things soon.

[Luca Blight]

So much fence-sitting. Not getting any Town vibes from this.

[Luca Blight]

Is this a VT with nothing to lose?

No, it’s scum who is scared of incriminating their teammates, and so is giving as little associative info as possible while trying to look as though they’re doing something.

[Luca Blight]

Yeah this is never Town!Profii.

Thanks for confirming.

[Luca Blight]

Yeah this is never Town!Profii.

Thanks for confirming.

If you are town be careful you dont make yourself tomorrows lynch with this

Like why would a town player even say this?

It’s a scum post.

[Luca Blight]

Usually townies who are about to be lynched towntell when they give their ‘final reads’; there’s conviction or some kind of direction to use their lynch as a springing board to solve the game.

Profii’s spew above has no redeeming features whatsoever. Some of it was just regurgitated stuff he’d said earlier, most of it was fence-sitting and unexplained.

There’s no way that comes from town, I guarantee it.

[Luca Blight]

‘Spring board’ rather

[Luca Blight]

Scum is

Egix
{Luca / norgey boy}
{Battle mage (most likely) / anotora (outside chance)}



There you go

And everyone he’s listed as scum are those who were on his wagon lol

The reason being that it doesn’t give away any additional info as to who his partners are.

[Luca Blight]

I agree with the above.

VOTE: Looker

[Luca Blight]

I’m thinking there’s most likely one scum on the Profii wagon and two off, given how easy a lynch it was. Looker is the only player on the wagon I’m not currently TL’ing.

[Luca Blight]

I am a town neighbor, my neighbor is 72.

What is your result?

[Luca Blight]

There’s no possible 100% guilty you could get on me given my role, so you must be lying.

[Luca Blight]

There's clearly been a mod error, but the way Una has gone about it doesn't sit well with me.

He has a hunch there was an error, but rushes forward to reveal his result anyway? Why not wait for the mod's reply, and why the certainty that I'm scum based on that ambiguous result?

It could be he's trying to use the situation as a 'dumbtell' to be townread. That's a pretty low thing to do but I've seen it happen. I'll wait and see what his explanation is anyway.

[Luca Blight]

I'm also wondering why Una, as Town, would have targeted me anyway? Was he scumreading me D1?

[Luca Blight]

I’ve just woken up, but are people really saying that I’m Zanr’s Partner because he concluded the Mod had most likely made a mistake?

That’s just ridiculous. It was obvious the mod had made an error; I don’t see how him pointing out the obvious there means I’m somehow his partner?

His post ‘defended’ Una more than it defended me, so what you’re saying makes no sense.

[Luca Blight]

I’m actually wondering if Norwegian is Zant’s partner trying to desperately deflect onto me, because his conclusion makes no sense whatsoever.

[Luca Blight]

Might be yea.
Would be interesting to see whether Zantetsu thinks Luca is a viable lynch, right?

Idiotic.

Do you think Zant!scum is going to argue against the idea that a townie is his partner?

[Luca Blight]

You think if Zant/Luca were s/s that Zant would say that was a mod error.

Imagine it is Zant!scum/Luca!Town, what would Zant do in that same situation? Is it unlikely he would also conclude a mod error? Not really as it was bleeding obvious.

And if you notice, Zant had shaded me a fair bit while making that conclusion, and he ‘defended’ Una more than he defended me.

By the same logic you’d say Una is scum with Zant - but you know all three of us can’t be scum. This already disproves your logic.

[Luca Blight]

Norwegian has seemed Town to me me generally this game, but the fact he wants me ‘turbo-lynched’ following a Zant red flip based on that seems disingenuous, especially when he had been TR’ing me. Why would Town try and force that connection in such a rushed way? It seems desperate, perhaps from scum who are seeing their buddy about to go down and want the next ML lined up.

[Luca Blight]

If we lynch Zant and then ‘turbo-lynch’ me, then the game is nearly lost for Town.

There would be 5t v 2S with presumably the best town pr’s already outed/dead, and many slots up in the air/unsorted. it would be easy for scum to survive two ML there, which makes it seem as though Norwegian is going for the ‘game-winning’ move by setting up my ML.

[Luca Blight]

Norwegian’s case against me IS bad. He’s saying I’m Zant’s partner because Zant concluded that the mod made an error on Una’s result, which is ridiculous.

I don’t see how Town!Norwegian goes from hard tr’ing me to saying I must be Zant’s partner on that evidence - it’s in really bad faith.

Most probably he panicked because Una is suddenly almost conf Town due to his full claim/clarification of mod error and his partner (Zant) has just been found guilty- Norwegian feels the need to hard bus and line up the next ML.

[Luca Blight]

I’m gonna quote things individually as I’m phone posting and it’s hard to make walls.

If Zantetsu is scum as Battle Mage claims, it raises the possibility that he is trying to redirect our attention from one of Luca/Una. As evidenced by his "This is probably a mod error" stance.

This was Norwegian’s initial reaction to Mage’s guilty on Zant - he’s immediately looking around for someone to line-up as a result of Zant’s red flip.

He says it could be Luca/Una, which in itself defeats its own logic - if he ‘defended’ Una, who you now townread, what’s to say he wouldn’t have ‘defended’ Town!Luca as well? And I don’t even think it was a defence - he was merely pointing out the obvious.

Also, why would Zant!scum necessarily say it’s a mod error when he could have backed the Una train or Luca train if one of us were his partner?

[Luca Blight]

Zantetsu should claim. In fact i’m starting to wonder if a mass claim wouød be best at this point. Then we can do setup analyzis and find out who is the most believable.

Encourages a mass-claim, which is just scummy as fuck when someone has just claimed a guilty result. Only scum could benefit from a mass-claim at this point.

[Luca Blight]

Having mulled things over, i'd rather follow a guilty made by someone i trust rather than my own scumread off of Una.
VOTE: Zantetsu

Here he’s making out like it’s a momentous decision to follow a guilty result over his own scumread - that’s just obviously what you should do on D2. He’s making it look a considered decision to make it not look like an outright bus.

[Luca Blight]

This is a fair point - would be good to get people's thoughts on who Zant's buddies are likely to be!

As much as this saddens me to say, assuming Una's weird role actually does confirm Luca being scum. It seems a Luca/Zantetsu scum team might be possible. Although i'd definitely want to lynch Zantetsu first, i believe BM's claim more than Una's right now.

And yeah, Zantetsu's attempt to say Una's result on Luca is just a mod error heavily points towards Luca being scum.
So if Zantetsu scum= Turbo lynch Luca Blight tommorow.

This is the main thing that makes me SR Norwegian right now - he went from hard Tr’ing me to seeing zant’s red flip as confirmation that I’m scum.

This is not a rational town thought process - rushing to ludicrous conclusions and decisions. It’s the mark of a desperate mindset scrambling for some compensation, which leads me to believe Norwegian is actually Zant’s partner.

[Luca Blight]

And Town are more likely to have a ‘rational’ thought process when we’re about to lynch scum.

Scum seeing their partner about to fall are more likely to make huge logical leaps to try to spin the situation to their advantage.

[Luca Blight]

From Scum!Norwegian’s perspective, it suited him to townread me and scumread Una at that point in time, but when a) Una and Mage become conftown and b) his partner is about to be lynched, he can’t afford to have me as another strongly TR figure in the room - so he uses the very flimsy association with Zant to try and line up my lynch next.

He can then kill Una tonight, lynch me tomorrow, kill Mage the following night and suddenly town are fucked.

[Luca Blight]

Screw the guilty. Just forget about your role. Can't you see that Zantetsu!scum implicates Luca!scum? No power needed for that.

Oh, I know this.

I'm just pissed off by the fact that my role apparently isn't anything like what the definition implies it should be.

Seriously

By the same logic YOU would be confirmed as Zant’s partner, and that’s certainly what Norwegian would have been pushing if not for your full claim.

[Luca Blight]

If Norwegian turns out to be Town then I’m gonna be pissed, but right now I’m convinced that isn’t a townie thought process and only comes from scum trying to maneuver into position for the win.

Lynch Zant -> Norwegian, and if he flips Town then he’s fucked the game anyway by this ridiculous push and I’ll happily take the next lynch.

Current bet for Norwegian’s partner would be my neighbor, 72. The way he’s lining up the Egix invest makes me wonder if there’s some manipulation (false clear?) there, though.

[Luca Blight]

Alternatively, Una protects Mage, Mage invests Norwegian.

[Luca Blight]

I just realised that the pt cop implies a neighbor is scum, which heightens my suspicion of 72.

[Luca Blight]

Both Una and mage target Norwegian, then.

[Luca Blight]

I recommend they both target you - only way to guarantee a clear/guilty and potentially avoid an unnecessary lynch, unless there is a scum RB.

[Luca Blight]

If you really are Town then...I don’t know what else to say. Your logic for me being Zant’s partner is ridiculous.

[Luca Blight]

Equally, why would Zant!scum ‘protect’ Town!una, especially when you were hard sr’ing Una?

Fmpov Zant was just pointing out the obvious - that doesn’t make us partners.

Decent scum players don’t opportunistically jump on every little thing they can, and why would he jump on me there? I was under no pressure, the mod had clearly made an error (as scum he would know for sure an error was made as I’m not scum) so why would he push me as scum when the whole thing would go up in smoke once the mod clarified the situation?

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

Simple + Neapolitan (= "a native or inhabitant of Naples").

So if Luca is a neighbour, I should've gotten a "no result". (same for any PR + alignment for that matter)
If Luca were a Vanilla Townie, I would've gotten a "Vanilla Townie" for result.
Instead my result was "not Vanilla". Meaning that with my role-combination the only way I would get that, is if Luca were to be a Vanilla Goon.

If your role is simple neopolitan, and if Luca is a town neighbor, then you should have gotten a No Result on Luca.

Neopolitan on town neighbor would give result "Luca is not a vanilla townie", since that's what neopolitan does -- gives positives on vanilla town and negatives on everything else.

But then the simple modifier would prevent this and give "No Result", since that's what the simple modifier does -- give the same result as a roleblocked action if the target is not vanilla town.

If your role is simple neopolitan, and Luca is a scum neighbor, then you would have gotten the result "Luca is not vanilla townie", since that's what neopolitan does.

But the simple modifier would also have kicked in because scum!neighor!Luca is also not vanilla town, so you would have gotten "No Result" there too.

The conclusion is that Luca cannot possibly be a neighbor, either scum or town.

Which means that both Luca and 72 would be lying. Which is possible given that Luca and 72 both made their defenses of each other before Una revealed his simple neopolitan role and thus might not have predicted that Una's role would be one which exactly countered their mutual defense.

Of course, it is also really hard to believe that scum!72 and scum!Luca would defend themselves in this way since it means that lynch of one would then give a guilty on the other. Which would be just about the worst possible association to give as a scum pair. It would mean that you have to win in 5p LYLO and don't even get a 3p LYLO.

But then, why would scum!Una have concocted such a strange and specific fake claim as "simple neopolitan"?

What would be like a huge gambit versus an even huger gambit.

On the other hand ... why would Una claim a guilty on Luca just because he got the result "Luca is not vanilla town" when there is the obvious other possibility that Luca is town with a role?

Luca Blight is scum.
Won't vote anyone else for now.

There is no uncertainty about the above.

Can you explain why scum!Zantetsu would put in all this effort to discredit Una’s claim? And try to de-escalate the situation.
Another point to remember, Zantetsu had no way of knowing he would be exposed as scum moments later when he wrote these posts.

To look considered/rational about the situation?

He would have no reason to defend me if I were his partner when I’m a neighbor anyway and the result isn’t a guilty, and as Town!luca he’d have no reason to jump on me when he knows the mod himself will soon clarify the situation to Una.

[Luca Blight]

You could say ‘why would Zant go through all that effort to protect Una D1’ - again, to look Town.

And it worked as I was Tr’ing him.

[Luca Blight]

I’m actually coming around to the opinion that you do really believe what you’re saying, but what you’re saying is completely unfounded.

If I’m lynched tomorrow then Town will almost certainly lose - both pr claims will be dead and there are so many slots that are unsorted.

[Luca Blight]

You could say ‘why would Zant go through all that effort to protect Una D1’ - again, to look Town.

And it worked as I was Tr’ing him.

Norwegian, look back at Zant’s D1 protection of Una, and how much effort he put into it.

Why would he do that if Una is Town and he’s scum?

Why would he make a rational wall post about Una’s result?

To look Town.

[Luca Blight]

And honestly. The most important discussion to be having right now is: who are Zantetsu’s teammates. So if it’s not you, who are the last two according to yourself?

I haven’t even got around to thinking about it - I’ve been defending myself from being setup upon a Zant red flip.

I’ll have some food then get back to you.

[Luca Blight]

I can tell already you’re putting too much stock into ‘interactions’ of little value.

[Luca Blight]

There’s nothing to say any of them can’t be Zant’s partner, from what I can see.

Least likely is Riabi, I’d say, but there’s nothing much to be gleaned from the interactions themselves as none of those players were close to being lynched, and nothing meaningful happened.

I’ll be basing my SR’s off general play in this case.

[Luca Blight]

Looker, Churros, Egix, Anotora, 72.

Probably two scum in these five. Right now my gut is pulling me towards 72.

[Luca Blight]

Why is Riabi least likely?

I just TR him higher than the other slots.

Zant also ‘pushed’ Riabi’s lynch as we were wagoning Profii the second time, but that doesn’t count for much as Riabi was never getting lynched over Profii anyway.

[Luca Blight]

@una: I’m now back to thinking Norwegian is more likely Town, so feel free to both target Egix.

Egix should claim today, in that case.

[Luca Blight]

I just think reading too much in associations, unless the evidence is really damning, is a fool’s game. For decent scum players, muddying the associations is the easiest thing to do, and Zant is clearly a decent scum player.

[Luca Blight]

@Nor: I would, because it’s objectively true.

Remember when we were S/S that game? No-one thought we were partners, because we deliberately distanced.

[Luca Blight]

And I’ve seen Town lose when a scum member is caught guilty early D2 when they weren’t previously suspected, and Town try to put together the pieces of the puzzle by associations, not realizing that they are worthless because the player in question was never under any pressure, and therefore never had their hand forced.

[Luca Blight]

I would agree to lynching 72 next.

[Luca Blight]

The hood is closed during the day, unfortunately.

During the night he posted his reads, similar to here. I didn’t feel many townie vibes as I was hoping. He was very reserved about giving too much info at first, but I agreed with most of what he said.

[Luca Blight]

I am a town neighbor, my neighbor is 72.

What is your result?

Neighbors, not masons?

Btw, now I’ve confirmed that we really are neighbors by my suspicion of 72, I think this is a scummy question from Looker - trying to rolefish.

In that case, however, 72 and Looker probably aren’t partners.

[Luca Blight]

@una: I’m now back to thinking Norwegian is more likely Town, so feel free to both target Egix.

Egix should claim today, in that case.

I should? you sure?

If Una and Mage both agree to target you then you need to claim today to do away with Wifom, yes.

[Luca Blight]

I think I’ve got it, but can you confirm?

[Luca Blight]

Egix can target me.

Una and Mage target Looker.

[Luca Blight]

I think pt cop is a slightly stronger version of TA.

Is it worth mass-claiming at this point?

[Luca Blight]

Looker should claim in their next post anyway.

[Luca Blight]

I haven’t properly caught up but I can already see Una is confbiasing against me.

It seems that whoever is scum out of Mage/Zant, I’m being made to ‘fit’ as their partner?

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: Zant

This has to happen today regardless. We have to assume at this point that Mage has either caught scum or is scum himself.

[Luca Blight]

I’ve only encountered ‘pt cop’ twice before, and on both occasions it was mafia goons fake claiming, and both games featured a Town Neap and a neighborhood containing scum.

It would be a really weird call for scum!Mage to make in this instance, unless he happens to be really confident his partners can carry the victory home.

[Luca Blight]

It also fits the way they acted when I outed my result!!!
They felt 100% confident I had been blocked, and was talking out of my ass!

In this scenario, the team is Luca-BattleMage-72, or barring a mod mistake, Luca + BattleMage + ??

You astound me.

1) Mage was the only one to follow you onto my wagon

2) i wasn’t confident you were blocked, I was confident there had been an error somewhere down the line, because there’s no way you could have a hard guilty against a town neighbor.

3) I can’t believe you think I’d actually claim neighbor with my partner. That’s just stupid.

[Luca Blight]

Glancing back over what transpired, I think Mage is telling the truth. He voted Zant right at the start of the day and listed him as highest scum, and as soon as the neighborhood was revealed he outed his role and result.

Seems legit to me.

[Luca Blight]

Regarding the role name, I believe PT Cop is a slightly stronger version of TA - if my understanding is correct, it can detect someone has access to a pt even if no-one else is in it/using it, but for a TA to detect a pt there has to be at least two players in it.

As they’re two slightly different roles I don’t see why a pt cop couldn’t be included instead of TA, to allow a little more power.

[Luca Blight]

Ah, Egix beat me to it.

[Luca Blight]

If/when Zant flip scum, we need more info and reads on 72/Luca.
I still think at least one of them is scum. I know it's not a MUST BE -thing, but I deem it likely if we really have a PT-cop.
That + how 72 acted.

And no one should forget the fact that

my result still SHOULD be a guilty on Luca.

When I flip my role, you can assess the combination yourselves.

The exact result was "not Vanilla Townie".

And being simple, I still say it should've been a "no result" if Luca is really a neighbor.

Meaning that Luca+72 is also still potentially a thing.

Luca saying he would never claim neighbors with their scumbuddy is still just WIFOM until we see flips.

Whether that result ‘should’ be a guilty based on how the role ‘should’ work is irrelevant - he info the mod gave you confirmed that any Town pr you targeted would come up as non-Vanilla, right? So why are we still talking about this?

As for the last line, wifom it may be, but that would be a ridiculous thing for me and 72 to do if we were scum - if one of us flipped red it confirms the other as scum. Is it possibly true? Yes. Realistically? No.

[Luca Blight]

And that’s why I revealed my role as soon as Una hinted at a guilty result - so no-one could say I was fitting my role to get around the result.

[Luca Blight]

I was actually considering claiming on D1 to avoid being targeted by a role like Una’s or Mage’s.

[Luca Blight]

Should probably wait until Anotora is replaced as well.

[Luca Blight]

You think Norwegian is the most likely partner for both?

[Luca Blight]

Anotora was your biggest SR during N1, why are they now further down your list?

[Luca Blight]

Just realised Churros hasn’t posted yet today either. Need to hold off on a lynch until we hear from him/Anotora slot.

UNVOTE:

[Luca Blight]

Yeah, like i said. It's hard figuring out who's scum vs town that's not too bright.

Yes, it’s hard to tell anything between the likes of Anotora, Riabi, 72 and Looker.

My gut feeling atm would be Zant/72 + either Riabi/Anotora.

[Luca Blight]

I know 72 is capable of towntelling but I’m not seeing it at all here, and that list makes no sense to me. A scum neighbor is likely if both Una and Mage’s roles are true as well, as it offers some protection to the scum to hide behind.

If we lynch 72 and he flips red then it has the additional benefit of confirming me as Town.

[Luca Blight]

Looker claimed VT

[Luca Blight]

Mage and Una both target Looker.

Egix target Norwegian

?

[Luca Blight]

I’m willing to trust Norwegian is Town at this point.

[Luca Blight]

Although, now Egix has claimed a pr maybe it’s worth Una and Mage targeting different players in case scum decide to off him instead?

[Luca Blight]

Actually never mind, there’s no chance they don’t kill an investigative.

[Luca Blight]

See'ing Zantetsu's reaction to the guilty, I think he is probably indeed the scum but I'm gonna ask you do the proper procedure just in case. Better safe than sorry.

There is literally

no reaction

I could have had that you would not be saying made me look guilty. The scummier thing would have been to fake some claim to try to keep myself alive.

This is true tbf.

I sympathize with you here because you’ve played well (assuming you’re scum), and your reaction to the claim even seemed quite sincere.

[Luca Blight]

@Mage: What should he have done instead?

As Zant said, nothing would have made him look not scummy in that situation, but I thought he did a decent job anyway.

[Luca Blight]

That’s actually a good point there, Churros.

Me and 72 don’t have day chat, so possibly scum don’t have either? We should probably mass-claim now so they have less time to confer.

Why do you townread Riabi btw?

[Luca Blight]

Just seen your point regarding Riabi above so nvm

[Luca Blight]

I really disagree with your point about Riabi, because by the same reasoning 72 is also town if Zant scum and I really don't believe that both him and Riabi are town.

Zant kept fighting after the result, so I think it's unlikely his partners would throw in the towel immediately. To lynch Mage first would be a coup for them, and could be explained away later through wifom.

[Luca Blight]

I know you don't care what I think, but I mainly agree with your reads. I'm not convinced about Riabi, but I think 72 is more likely scum along with someone like Anotora/Looker.

If Zant flips scum I'll be pushing for a 72 lynch Tomorrow.

[Luca Blight]

Yes, that’s an interesting time to replace out when I’d just said I was going to push hard for 72’s lynch.

Lynch Danny tomorrow, confirm me as Town and then the game should be almost won.

[Luca Blight]

And if we can confirm looker as town then it will really be an easy game from there.

[Luca Blight]

I’m bored now.

VOTE: Zant

L-1 I think. Hopefully Anotora is replaced during the night.

[Luca Blight]

Don’t replacements usually occur 24 hours after a prod? 48 hours seems a bit over the top.

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: iDany

[Luca Blight]

Not sure if that’s the hammer or not but fmpov he’s nearly certain to be scum.

[Luca Blight]

Will catch-up soon...

[Luca Blight]

We’re definitely not lynching the Norwegian slot today.

[Luca Blight]

So why are you talking about it?

[Luca Blight]

I didn’t mention it once?

Norwegian has been obvtown nearly the whole game, it’s got nothing to do with the replace-outs.

[Luca Blight]

It's probably Eve but I'll catch up properly before I make my decison.

[Luca Blight]

wait how did you know i was scum?

This is a pretty blatant scumslip, I can’t imagine Town saying this.

[Luca Blight]

I believe Battle Mage claimed he was roleblocked on night 2 if i’m not mistaken? If that is really true then i suppose Looker being targeted by a succesful simple shot is proof that he cannot be a scum roleblocker.
Battle Mage, can you confirm if this is true?

Townie thought-processing.

[Luca Blight]

Luca/Battle Mage/Egix locktown

Riabi, Eve, Looker the suspicious people.

Move eve up, I would've died if she were scum.

You could say that about anyone, though?

The Churros NK was surprising regardless.

[Luca Blight]

huh alright then

i didn't realise Battle Mage was the one who "caught" Zantetsu

VOTE: Norwee

i'll check Riabi tonight

So how did you think Zantetsu was caught, then?

[Luca Blight]

also norwee pushing looker despite the evidence was kind of eh

This is super opportunistic.

Did you read Norwegian’s 1353?

[Luca Blight]

But so is this:

We’re definitely not lynching the Norwegian slot today.

Yeah, why, he's scummy as hell.

VOTE: Norwe

If Eve somehow isn’t scum, then it’s Riabi for sure.

[Luca Blight]

fwiw i think norwee/egix getting replaced is completely nai and it's pointless (and forbidden) to talk about it

This is very weird and self-conscious, because I made no reference to the replace-outs and yet Eve assumes my suspicion of her stems from that.

[Luca Blight]

Ok, my mind is made up. Lynch in this order for the win: Eve -> Riabi.

VOTE: Eve

[Luca Blight]

What was a joke?

[Luca Blight]

It wasn't obvious, especially when you haven't mentioned it until now despite Looker also calling you out on it.

[Luca Blight]

Looker and Riabi, please vote Eve so we can finish this.

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: Riabi

[Luca Blight]

I said it all yesterday.

Were you scum?