Open 777: Switch (Town Wins)

[Knightmare491]

Spoiler:

You don't say!

VOTE: Emperor

[Knightmare491]

Cop was worthless to begin with if you think about it.

Why?

[Knightmare491]

Welp This was a fun game. So what PR we got left? Tracker? Oh Na we got the vig. Yes I'm reading this setup as I move down the list.

I'm assuming you were reading the list of roles here https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ch_(Setup)
Why would you guess tracker, or anything else for that matter? Cop, Doc and Vig are mentioned consecutively below each other in that order.

[Knightmare491]

Lets think about this. We're relying on interactions from the SK and Mafia both to know what the switch positions are and was so if they are working together by random act of chance. Then they would be able to block out any Town PR

That's true, but at the end of the day it's a chance. It's not like the Cop was going to get wrong results(unless the SK has chosen cop immunity and he gets checked), he'd either get results or no results.

I saw switch I signed up. But hey I'm not allowed to mess up at all apparently?

No, you're not allowed to
On a more serious note, so you're saying that you had no idea about the setup?

[Knightmare491]

Also I feel like this would be a game where scum would have the confidence to try to take a town leading role

Interesting, I don't agree. But why do you think so?

[Knightmare491]

I skimmed it, but I was really just desperate to be in a game. No offense to the designer. I was just going to play it like a regular normal.

lol

Side note why does no one make sense in this game

I'll answer this after Raya responds to me.

[Knightmare491]

I don't even know what the hell is this interaction.

I forgot to close the window, sorry.

Do you agree Math is basically caught scum already?

Excuse me what?

I'm assuming you meant to ask why he said that you are caught scum already?

But Tanner had already answered that when he was conversing with EFN here, later you were just satisfied with him saying what he said below.

Spoiler:

Solon/Elmo is likely T/S (in some order) says you, yet you proceed to place a seemingly random vote on Tanner?

There has been no explanation. Scum must be panicking.

I said I forgot to close the window.

Ah. I see.

What happened here @ND?

[Knightmare491]

Because 2 of the power roles were killed Night 0. I think that's a solid confidence boost

Oh. Gotcha
I had something else on my mind.

[Knightmare491]

What was on your mind?

I thought you made that conclusion based on the fact that we have a vig and an SK, who'll both try to kill mafia and I wouldn't expect them to kill town leaders, not early game at least. I thought you were thinking along those lines.

[Knightmare491]

I'm struggling with how you could misinterpret that interaction as bad as you did if you weren't trying to paint me scum.
VOTE: Knightmare491

Nice deflection.

@Tanner "I see" meaning I see you have no plans to be cooperative with me so I should just drop it.

But you choose to answer him.

VOTE: VOTE: ND

[Knightmare491]

VOTE: ND

Just in case

[Knightmare491]

I disagree with both of the main wagons at the moment. Here's something I'll start up just to see where it takes me
VOTE: Nips

Why do you disagree with the ND wagon?

[Knightmare491]

I don't even know what the hell is this interaction.

I forgot to close the window, sorry.

Do you agree Math is basically caught scum already?

Excuse me what?

ND is asking Tanner why he thinks ND is "caught scum already", but Tanner has already sort of explained it in the below post(in spoiler).

Spoiler:

Solon/Elmo is likely T/S (in some order) says you, yet you proceed to place a seemingly random vote on Tanner?

There has been no explanation. Scum must be panicking.

I said I forgot to close the window.

Okay maybe ND did not read that post made by Tanner(60) or did not come to the same conclusion, which is why he asked 62 Which is why when I originally made this post I asked him "what happened here" because Tanner did not answer him yet he dropped the question by saying what he said below.

Ah. I see.

To me he replied

Spoiler:

I'm struggling with how you could misinterpret that interaction as bad as you did if you weren't trying to paint me scum.

When Tanner asked a similar question he replied

Spoiler:

@Math, when you answer the other questions, could you elaborate on this? What did "I see" mean here?

@Tanner "I see" meaning I see you have no plans to be cooperative with me so I should just drop it.

I basically asked the same question but he did not answer it, then goes on to vote me for pointing out that inconsistency and asking him about it(?)
After Tanner asks him a similar question he answers it because I presume ND cannot justify a scum read on Tanner or whatever. If ND is town why didn't he answer me in the same way?
I think ND stopped questioning Tanner in 70 because he doesn't want to appear as someone who's overly concerned about other people scum reading them.
There there's this

I voted because I get scumread for not voting.

While it's not bad in isolation, it is pretty scummy when you consider other things. He's more focused on not being "scum read".

[Knightmare491]

???
Are you being stupid on purpose?
There's 3 mafia in this setup.

[Knightmare491]

*tumbleweed*

[Knightmare491]

*insert town-slip here*

[Knightmare491]

I struggle to see how you interpret it the way you are, or how you view 60 as an explanation

That's what they all say

[Knightmare491]

I change my mind about scum taking a townleading role. Scum are lurking and hiding

Do you have any substantial reads?

[Knightmare491]

Was there a reason for this vote or was it just rvs?

It was half and half, post was kinda Lamist.

[Knightmare491]

I have dunnstral, tanner, alban, and overki11 as town reads/leans right now.
Solon I'm not sure about anymore.
Elmo and NDMath as scum reads/leans.
Everyone else is null.

Okay, agree on the Tanner read. Is the dunn read tonal? What about overkill, why are you TRing him? alban is null for me.
Agree with ND read, Elmo I keep going back and forth on.

[Knightmare491]

But many people were saying something about how low our chances are now or how bad the start was. Why are they ok? Also what would you think if the first poster didn't mention the two town prs killed?

Yeah which is why I dropped the idea that posting about the bad start, etc is AI.
I wouldn't think any of it to be AI, wouldn't make a difference.

[Knightmare491]

Maria feels very calm tonally, is that normal for her as any alignment?
@Anyone who's played with her before

[Knightmare491]

I don't even know what the hell is this interaction.

Is Mafiascum all the experience you have in mafia?

I've played elsewhere 4-5 years ago. Thanks to the quarantine I have loads of time again, why I joined the site.

I disagree with both of the main wagons at the moment. Here's something I'll start up just to see where it takes me
VOTE: Nips

Why do you disagree with the ND wagon?

Why do you disagree with the Nips wagon?

Didn't see much right or wrong with that slot, don't know what to make of their "slip" which later on and ND is scum so that.

[Knightmare491]

Looker, sell me on Mathwagon because I honestly don't see it.

Get some new specs yo

[Knightmare491]

Knight looks good. He's in a tunnel and his tone comes off like he really believes the read.

So do you think me v ND is t v t? Cause if not, you should be voting ND.

[Knightmare491]

I read 62 as someone of who knows how their past games have gone, understand a weakness of theirs, and are trying to improve. That's NAI. You wanna try again and not be cheeky this time?

134

[Knightmare491]

A lot of Knightmare's content feels empty and like he's looking for stances to take instead of pushing what he believes. His NDMath vote is an example of what I mean there. Things like NDMath answering a question posed to him while saying he wants to drop the conversation just... aren't that scummy? And it doesn't feel like something that he'd believe actually makes NDMath scum.
And I played with Knightmare briefly in a recent Newbie game and didn't notice anything like this.

Wow that's a wild discredit, did you even read why I find it scummy?

[Knightmare491]

Hm, look at elmo day 2. She's been parked on looker for quite a while, without really expressing why the slot is scum or trying to get people to vote there but now is happy to vote me for some reason?

[Knightmare491]

you can't tell me that is your best read. like srsly

[Knightmare491]

A lot of Knightmare's content feels empty and like he's looking for stances to take instead of pushing what he believes. His NDMath vote is an example of what I mean there. Things like NDMath answering a question posed to him while saying he wants to drop the conversation just... aren't that scummy? And it doesn't feel like something that he'd believe actually makes NDMath scum.
And I played with Knightmare briefly in a recent Newbie game and didn't notice anything like this.

A quick dive on this game shows me they're really abrasive when they tunnel. How fakeable is his tunnel on NDMath here?

When playing that game it wast his tunneling that I townread, it was more that he seemed to be getting genuinely upset that he was getting scumread in a way that felt like he knew people were wrong about him. Whereas here, posts like 277 don't give me that impression - he seems more annoyed that my logic against him doesn't look sound than he does about me potentially being wrong about him.

I'm flat-out not seeing your point on the ND tunnel thing. Nothing in his push looks hard to fake at all. If you think that, you're gonna have to show me what you see.

Difference is that game the person accusing me was kind of in a death tunnel and it did not feel like he was scum. Which is why I was upset.
I don't feel the same about your slot.

[Knightmare491]

Maria feels very calm tonally, is that normal for her as any alignment?
@Anyone who's played with her before

I thought this was some good insight

I'm glad you bring this post up though

What is Knightmare's read on Maria? From what I can tell he has totally avoided giving a read on her. She was the top wagon when he made this post. Thinking about it this post feels really removed from the Maria wagon in a way that looks pretty scummy with either Maria-town or Maria-scum (if Maria-town, it reads as trying to justify jumping on later; if Maria-scum, it reads as distancing).

I think it's obvious from my post that I'm TLing Maria because of her tone. "Tone is too calm for someone who's scum and suddenly under pressure with deadline approaching"
Which is why I asked if that is AI for Maria

[Knightmare491]

I don't mind voting for Emperor, it's a lurker slot, but I'd rather lynch math.

[Knightmare491]

Killing klick makes sense for sk/mafia because they were town read by more than half of the playerlist and it frames me too two birds in one stone.

[Knightmare491]

VOTE: ND

Still scum

[Knightmare491]

nightmare is a good candidate for mafia because the vote failed on them at deadline.

?? How does that make me mafia?

[Knightmare491]

What's the most likely world if I'm town?

Haven't considered such a scenario, but I'd probably look at people who were either soft defending you or ignoring your wagon.

[Knightmare491]

Also, you don't think this guy is guilty of what you're accusing me of?

Are you saying I should have hammered myself?

[Knightmare491]

Also, we need to try to lynch mafia over SK because of crosskilling and because of vote parity, and lynching mafia extends the game. Knightmare is a good candidate for mafia because the vote failed on them at deadline. Speaking of which, can we talk about why/how that happened?

You know this is something I'd say as mafia to sound clever and let everyone know about my

townie

awareness.

[Knightmare491]

Dunn was quite quiet on day 1, today he seems diff. I can't really put my finger on what exactly, but it gives me odd vibes.

[Knightmare491]

He was scum reading Maria too hmm, maybe they thought she's the SK?

VOTE: Dunn

[Knightmare491]

He was scum reading Maria too hmm, maybe they thought she's the SK?

VOTE: Dunn

So are you calling Dunnstral the vig?

Based and not!vigpilled.

Are you even reading? I said he's prob maf who killed Maria.

[Knightmare491]

Oh somebody claimed intent, I'm VT.

[Knightmare491]

Now we can't tell if he wasn't lynched because everyone was afk, or because mafia didn't want to lynch one of their own, so they didn't post. Which means we pretty much have to lynch him, now.

Cool, so you're saying that lynching him will give no info about any other players because it could be either of those things, but now you want to lynch me anyway.

This is the most obvious scum slip I've seen in a while. Conf scum

[Knightmare491]

Do you believe this? Or are you just trying to survive at this point?

What can I say, it's like everything I say falls on deaf ears.

[Knightmare491]

Now we can't tell if he wasn't lynched because everyone was afk, or because mafia didn't want to lynch one of their own, so they didn't post. Which means we pretty much have to lynch him, now.

He voted me in the above post, if that is his thought process from that start of that day, why does he wait for 3 days to vote me?

[Knightmare491]

Why can't the part you called a slip be a thought coming from town?

because as town he would be taking firm stance on the info that we would get from my lynch. Not just saying we need to lynch me anyway (?)
WTF does that mean, are we at the liberty of lynching people (anyway??) without even thinking what info could be gained from it?
It makes sense that he pushes on me now when his pet scum read Maria flipped town.

[Knightmare491]

@Paragon can you do something useful?

[Knightmare491]

There are barely any wall posts and just 20 pages.

[Knightmare491]

I'll answer that when Knight answers my question first

Which question? thought I answered everything.

[Knightmare491]

Knightmare; why are you so concerned with what I am doing rather than focus on the wagon on you? What is your insight on the voters?

cause you're new.
My wagon is just stupid at this point it's difficult to say who's being apathetic town and voting me just cuz or who's scum. It's probably Dunn and ND tho like I've been saying all along.

[Knightmare491]

Knightmare again; do you think every lynch required you to have a good headspace as to where you'll be at after the lynch? What's wrong with trying to flip the scummiest player, rather than preflip-solve?

Except I wasn't scummy to him yesterday, what changed today? I'm not telling that we should pre flip solve.
His reasoning is scummy AF, "we should lynch this because it should have been lynched yesterday"
But why was it getting lynched yesterday?
Cos deadline was near and someone needed to be lynched.....
So now tell me if this makes sense coming from town.

[Knightmare491]

Sure

[Knightmare491]

@Knight this question

scummy ofc, otherwise wouldn't be voting there

[Knightmare491]

SK is OP in this setup, full mafia nk immunity should not be a thing.