Mini Normal 2139: No Flavor Allowed - Game Over
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That's funny considering you were in Newbie 1995 and yet you noted my "comedic content" in RVS.In post 30, clidd wrote:In post 14, LuckyLuciano wrote:This is the second opportunity since I've joined the site for a D1 lynch. Make it happen people! (I will not be posting for the rest of page one, in order to support the cause.)
This is strange coming from you, Luciano. In the games in which we participated together, your instance at the beginning of D1 was always more logical and pragmatic. This sudden change with comic content is not something that the profile of your playstyle suggests, at least as far as I can see.In post 26, LuckyLuciano wrote:Yet another page 1 hammer opportunity wasted.
VOTE: LuckyLuciano
UNVOTE: Persi. VOTE: Clidd.- LuckyLuciano
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I have literally mirrored my opening to a game we both played in, where I was town, nearly post-by-post. You are scumreading me for doing literally the same thing you have seen me do before, as town. I was going to label this move, "calling out a player making up a reason to attack me that they know to be false". I supposed I will take you input into consideration, as "Advanced OMGUS" rolls off the tongue slightly better.- LuckyLuciano
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In post 40, clidd wrote:In post 39, LuckyLuciano wrote:That's unequivocally the worst interpretation of my interaction with Clidd possible. Scum-reading me for being comic in my opening, when he's seen me be comic in my opening before, is scummy.Why are you assuming I have a scumread on you ?the image you gave in our past games is much more logical than joking with votes on a playerlist that you don't know (besides Hajimari). What triggered an *alert*, in my opinion, was the way you reacted to that, which would be totally different from the Town!Luciano perspective that I imagine.In post 30, clidd wrote:In post 14, LuckyLuciano wrote:This is the second opportunity since I've joined the site for a D1 lynch. Make it happen people! (I will not be posting for the rest of page one, in order to support the cause.)
This is strange coming from you, Luciano. In the games in which we participated together, your instance at the beginning of D1 was always more logical and pragmatic.In post 26, LuckyLuciano wrote:Yet another page 1 hammer opportunity wasted.This sudden change with comic content is not something that the profile of your playstyle suggests, at least as far as I can see.
VOTE: LuckyLuciano- LuckyLuciano
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@Clidd, Why did you unvote me?
@Zulfy, it's not frustration. I copied my town game for a reason. That reason will be revealed later in the game. At that point you will see clear town motivation for it. If you want to argue that it's scum motivated at that point, go for it. The only thing I'm frustrated about is your clear inability to think critically.- LuckyLuciano
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It was a really big pot of coffee...In post 233, Umlaut wrote:
Are you done making that coffee yet?In post 166, LuckyLuciano wrote:I'm making some fresh coffee. I'll catch up after.
I actually just realized that it was best if I took a day off from mafia as a whole. I'm partway through a big catch-up post now, I just saw this and figured I'd let you guys know I'm still around.- LuckyLuciano
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Spoiler: Lucky-Clidd-Zulfy Interaction
Spoiler: Klick's #59
Spoiler: SirCakez' #82
Spoiler: We're back to talking about my opening
Spoiler: Persivul's #144
Spoiler: Klick's 149
Spoiler: Persivul
Spoiler: Lucky's Opening: The Trilogy
Spoiler: valoneast
Spoiler: Reundo
Spoiler: Page 11
I'm most confident on Ragman/Clidd right now. I need to check the votecount real quick.- LuckyLuciano
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That makes sense. I'll correct you though and say that I wouldn't call my play a "ploy" and I wasn't expecting Clidd to attack it the way he did.In post 273, valoneast wrote:Im not really sure on the theory of mafia, but a quick D1 lynch isn't really town beneficial. I assume that you want to read people, see how wagon forms and such. You mentioned that you wanted a quick D1 lynch on post #14 and #26, so that causes for concern.
As the game's rolled on, it just sounds more and more like you took a shot in #36, where you mentioned that you've copied your town game, asking for an explanation how someone's thought process led you to believe that you were scum like. However this completely backfire as that argument itself made it scumesque. At this point I had a bit of scumread on you.
However, as I thought about it more and more, I realized that you were merely frustrated, and commenting on someone's argument of your "ploy" is actually quite logical, maybe executed poorly.Thathe attacked it, andhowhe did, I think is interesting, but I wasn't setting a trap for him. If I'm right to suspect him, then catching him was a happy accident that has nothing to do with my purpose in opening the way I did.
Could you clarify what you meant when you said that you, once again, had to clarify that you couldn't participate in meta discussions? As far as I'm aware, that was your first time mentioning it.- LuckyLuciano
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@farside, it's slightly more nuanced than that. Clidd attacked my opening under pretenses that he knows to be false. He explained that it was a reaction test, but my experience with him doesn't lead me to believe that he's the reaction test sort of player. The timing in which he switched from pushing me to defending me lines up with when I called him out on knowingly making a false attack. I'm also worried that he seemed to have operated under the assumption that I was scum prior to engaging in the reaction test, which doesn't show good faith, and that he seems to believe that I will be killed N1. I'm pretty sure he's said in another game that he would kill me N1 if he was mafia, so him already thinking about that this game is concerning to me. It also requires him to assume that I am town, which doesn't align with reaction testing me, and his presumption of guilt when engaging in the reaction test.- LuckyLuciano
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It seemed easier to indicate that my posts were near-exact copies of my posts from a prior game that Clidd was in to illustrate the bad faith in his push.In post 279, valoneast wrote:
I think this is the worry we all have, why bother revealing this idea anyways? Why not just NOT bring of this argument. IMO I think you were trying a new move and are genuinely frustrated that people are fixated on this idea that you had to "copy your town game to seem town" for whatever reason that is. Your past posts have been all about defending that, and you sound genuinely annoyed/frustrated. Breadcrumbing (I think that's what is called) a little less obvious next time, if you're actually breadcrumbing.In post 263, LuckyLuciano wrote:You can take my word for it and keep it in mind later in the game when it's more relevant for me to explain myself, or you can push for my reasoning immediately.
Meta refers to a player's overall tendencies, beyond this particular game. The post I'm talking about is,In post 280, valoneast wrote:
Huh? Im not sure what you mean when you say Meta. But I think you're talking about my "theory"?In post 277, LuckyLuciano wrote:Could you clarify what you meant when you said that you, once again, had to clarify that you couldn't participate in meta discussions? As far as I'm aware, that was your first time mentioning it.
When I play mafia in real life, we generally just chat to see how people feel about each other, the idea is that since the mafia does know some information, they might lean heavier to one side or not, and the general public has no reason to lean any side at all.
I remember that playing in my first game here, but that was 7-8 years ago. What I don't understand are the terminologies. So I started this game quite quiet, as I couldn't contribute to people's playstyle, what "Advanced OMGUS" means and such. And I was genuinely confused as to how to even follow the conversation, let alone how to contribute to it. Leading to my little outburst.
Emphasis on the bolded part. You never mentioned that you couldn't contribute to discussions about prior games before, so I'm trying to figure out what you meant when you said, "once again".In post 174, valoneast wrote:Heard my name.
You guys are absolutely going at breakneck speeds here. I know the newb card will get me more flak, but I've been reading every post so far, trying to follow along. I mean, about 50% of the argument is linked to your prior game(s),which once again, I CAN'T CONTRIBUTE IN.
Not sure how you guys play your games, but when I've got something to contribute. I will.- LuckyLuciano
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Where did you first hear the term breadcrumbing? And since you seem to think my breadcrumb is obvious, why not share it with the class?In post 279, valoneast wrote:Breadcrumbing (I think that's what is called) a little less obvious next time, if you're actually breadcrumbing.- LuckyLuciano
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If you are assuming that the person you are testing is scum, you are giving in to confirmation bias. This also ties back to Zulfy's post asking Clidd if there was any reaction I could have given that wouldn't lead him to arguing that I'm town. Clidd didn't seem to have a coherent idea of what sorts of reactions would indicate that I am town, and what sorts of reactions would indicate that I am scum. It felt more like he was scumpainting and he backed off when I called him out on it.In post 284, valoneast wrote:
Why not? Isn't the point to see if any scum alarms get alerted when doing said reaction test? If you don't trigger it, then the assumption goes away? I'm confused about this.In post 281, LuckyLuciano wrote:I'm also worried that he seemed to have operated under the assumption that I was scum prior to engaging in the reaction test, which doesn't show good faith- LuckyLuciano
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Nope, it's not the only reason.In post 291, Umlaut wrote:
Why is this? Why not support the wagon by voting on it? I get that it would be L–1 but is that the only reason?In post 264, LuckyLuciano wrote:I'm going to keep my vote where it's at for now, but I support the Ragman wagon.- LuckyLuciano
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Pretty sure the Atarashi slot is town.In post 292, SirCakez wrote:
I'm disengaged :/In post 244, farside22 wrote:
Cakez makes more of an effort typically. The lack of follow through and really good reads or free following thoughts are missing from him.In post 238, Umlaut wrote:
Talk to me about this read because I'm not seeing Cakez scum at all. He could certainly be efforting more (hey Cakez, you really need to effort more) but he just seems like low-energy town. His tone is pretty free and his impressions of the game look natural and unforced, and he's transparent about being sort of lost.In post 235, farside22 wrote:I feel like i did when i created a game where everyone had 2 votes that they could use to either vote a player twice or split their votes between 2 scum reads. If i could do that I'd vote for cakez too right now.
IE: this game not the typical town cakez.
Trying to effort more now
brassherald is not improving my read on the Atarashi slot. Hate that entrance.
I like Lucky's recent posts better. I think it's plausible that he just had foot in mouth.
Klick has done nothing to improve my read there so
VOTE: Klick- LuckyLuciano
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You don't know how heavily I was targeted on my old site. I still talk to Atari outside of mafia on a daily basis. He's my DM in D&D. Scum!Atari would see the easy lynch on me and join it to rub it in my face later. Especially because he knows how much I hate getting misrepped. I only see scum!Atari defending me under some crazy pretense that the players in this game, with how poorly they've handled my opening, would then buy an offsite meta driven push against him after I flip green. I also think that scum!Atari prefers town!Lucky dead rather than alive. I see him defending me as having massive opportunity cost from his perspective.In post 312, SirCakez wrote:
?In post 307, LuckyLuciano wrote:Pretty sure the Atarashi slot is town.- LuckyLuciano
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This doesn't sound like you.In post 314, clidd wrote:Yes, half experience, half pattern analysis/imagination.
Anyhoo, can you explain why you assumed I would die N1?- LuckyLuciano
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@/u/fuckswithducks, have you done this yet?In post 301, valoneast wrote:In post 287, LuckyLuciano wrote:If you are assuming that the person you are testing is scum, you are giving in to confirmation bias. This also ties back to Zulfy's post asking Clidd if there was any reaction I could have given that wouldn't lead him to arguing that I'm town. Clidd didn't seem to have a coherent idea of what sorts of reactions would indicate that I am town, and what sorts of reactions would indicate that I am scum. It felt more like he was scumpainting and he backed off when I called him out on it.
Hmm okay, but don't you have to have a hypothesis first before testing it? When I go into any type of situation I would test against the null hypothesis.
Ahhh, so the fact that Clidd didn't seem to have what a "positive" and "negative" test would look like? That sounds 'bout right,let me reread how his tone changes when he got called out on it.- LuckyLuciano
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Sure, now that I've vocalized it. That doesn't change its accuracy prior to him knowing about it.In post 335, Klick wrote:
Ah okay you go into it here.In post 318, LuckyLuciano wrote:
You don't know how heavily I was targeted on my old site. I still talk to Atari outside of mafia on a daily basis. He's my DM in D&D. Scum!Atari would see the easy lynch on me and join it to rub it in my face later. Especially because he knows how much I hate getting misrepped. I only see scum!Atari defending me under some crazy pretense that the players in this game, with how poorly they've handled my opening, would then buy an offsite meta driven push against him after I flip green. I also think that scum!Atari prefers town!Lucky dead rather than alive. I see him defending me as having massive opportunity cost from his perspective.In post 312, SirCakez wrote:
?In post 307, LuckyLuciano wrote:Pretty sure the Atarashi slot is town.
I'm not super convinced Atarashi would be that strongly inclined to never defend you in a SvT situation. A tell like that is begging to be broken.- LuckyLuciano
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How do you think vanilla!Lucky reacts when people make bad plays?In post 336, clidd wrote:
I noticed that you could be PR in the transition from posts 32 ~ 34 to 36, where your tone became more aggressive and started to mention in a more descriptive way the defense of your meta, demonstrating, in my opinion, that you had been bothered far beyond from the ordinary to a VT mentality. It's not an insult, but I think that when you take on a TPR role, you end up feeling more important than you are, which makes it easier for you to be offended/frustrated when someone presents any suspicious particle about your slot. That was my inference.In post 325, LuckyLuciano wrote:What made you think I am TPR? Feel free to discuss it, I think explaining your reasoning is more important than hiding my role.
Also, why did you feel the need to reaction test me in the first place? Was there something I said that indicated that it would be valuable for you to test me?
I felt the need to test your slot for two reasons:
1- If you're a scum, I don't want you to go to lylo (because from what I've noticed, your frequency of posts increases absurdly in the late game and is a threat)
2- If you are a town, I want to know early to work together (and use you to get a read on Hajimari, you know him better than me)
Also, if you believe that I am more aggressive when pushed as TPR, why would you choose to test me by intentionally misrepping my play? Don't you think that your chosen approach is likely, on its own, to tick me off?- LuckyLuciano
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I have about 7 years of experience playing mafia with Atari. I'm not going to go too deep into my meta reading of his play, because without reading offsite games it's not going to enhance your understanding, but it will benefit him. Either you buy that I can read him or you don't. What's more important is that you understand that I have reasons for townreading the slot, even if Brass' play isn't helpful.In post 338, Klick wrote:Is it something you've never expressed to them, then? It seems basic enough in concept that I'd assumed you two had to have been in a situation where that would apply before.
Is the read backed by evidence? Does Atarashi consistently avoid townreading you when they're scum and you're town?- LuckyLuciano
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What towntell were you looking for?In post 33, clidd wrote:
I'm waiting for your towntell.In post 32, LuckyLuciano wrote: That's funny considering you were in Newbie 1995 and yet you noted my "comedic content" in RVS.
UNVOTE: Persi. VOTE: Clidd.- LuckyLuciano
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33, 35.In post 340, farside22 wrote:
Which post gave you that?In post 281, LuckyLuciano wrote:If you are assuming that the person you are testing is scum, you are giving in to confirmation bias. This also ties back to Zulfy's post asking Clidd if there was any reaction I could have given that wouldn't lead him to arguing that I'm town. Clidd didn't seem to have a coherent idea of what sorts of reactions would indicate that I am town, and what sorts of reactions would indicate that I am scum. It felt more like he was scumpainting and he backed off when I called him out on it.- LuckyLuciano
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You thought that knowing whether or not I am town was of great enough importance that you were willing to take a course of action that you believed was likely to out me as TPR?In post 346, clidd wrote:
Yes, but this is not something that I worried about. Whether you are town or not was more important.In post 344, LuckyLuciano wrote:Also, if you believe that I am more aggressive when pushed as TPR, why would you choose to test me by intentionally misrepping my play? Don't you think that your chosen approach is likely, on its own, to tick me off?
Would you say that my play is noticeably worse when I'm annoyed?- LuckyLuciano
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What it my first reaction was robotic? I'm trying to visualize a flowchart of my possible reactions and where the possible scum reactions lie, because it feels like you are finding spots for them after the fact.In post 352, clidd wrote:
Your next reaction. If you had a robotic instance in an argumentative sense, I would suspect that you would be trying to pretend to be calm. If you were irritated/frustrated or showed any chemical trace of emotion, it would be more evident that you were town.In post 350, LuckyLuciano wrote:
What towntell were you looking for?In post 33, clidd wrote:
I'm waiting for your towntell.In post 32, LuckyLuciano wrote: That's funny considering you were in Newbie 1995 and yet you noted my "comedic content" in RVS.
UNVOTE: Persi. VOTE: Clidd.- LuckyLuciano
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Upon reassessing, I see how and why Clidd saw me as TPR at the point he claims to have. The whole reaction test as a whole feels off to me still, but maybe it'sbecauseClidd isn't really a reaction test sort of player, in my opinion, that when he does perform one it doesn't feel natural to me. Buying Clidd's interaction with me as town requires me to assume that Clidd made a logical oversight that is uncharacteristic of him, but I'm starting to see where exactly that oversight occurred and how it shaped his following posts. In short, I'm feeling more confident about town!Clidd at the moment.
Also, Clidd, your WIM really drops off when people disagree with you.- LuckyLuciano
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Catch-up gets to be stream of consciousness this time.
I don't like Ragman's return answering none of the concerns levied against him. I especially don't like his movement from me to a tied wagon (making it the second largest), when his reasoning for voting Klick could equally be applied to me,In post 405, Ragman Saul Rima wrote:UNVOTE: LuckyLuciano
I like Luciano's interaction in page 14 and 15.
I never considered the possibility that he could have a town power role. I retract my opinion on #48.
VOTE: Klick
Like, if he wasn't talking specifically about Klick, I'd think he was talking about me.In post 414, Ragman Saul Rima wrote:
Too many townreads, I don't see where the confidence is coming from to give farside, sircakez a strong townread so fast. clidd went from good townread (#211) to mild scum (#355), though I believe he made no scummy posts in between. I went from neutral (#175) to scum (#211) though I didn't post in between. I'm thinking it's scum sheeping farside.In post 407, Reundo wrote: @Ragman, what are you scum-reading Klick for other than what you mentioned when you first posted?- LuckyLuciano
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So... can you answer my earlier question?In post 451, Ragman Saul Rima wrote:
Tell me how town reading based on posts can't be WIFOM sometimes in D1. It strengthens my view on how my TRs are meaningless this early.In post 447, clidd wrote:
So not having townreads is a methodology that comes from a town mentality to you ? What if I said that it would make it difficult to find associations with his slot in the scenario where he's lynched and the flip is scum ? It is very easy to act like that as scum to gain credibility in the game, as it is basically wifom in its purest state.In post 441, Ragman Saul Rima wrote:
In Hoctac's case, the reasons he gave look innocent to me. As if he was solving from a town perspective. The varying levels of scum calculated in terms of degrees looks like excessive paranoia, is all the more reason for me to TR him.In post 428, clidd wrote:accusing several people in parallel without developing any of the scumreads is a scummy instance
That being said, I would like to hear a complete read list from Hoctac. His posts still give me town vibes, but I agree with what you are trying to achieve.
In post 263, LuckyLuciano wrote:If good scum can look town, and therefore your townreads are useless, how are your scumreads valuable? In other words, if scum looks town, and town looks town, then how do you even have scumreads?- LuckyLuciano
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I'm going to say that one of the two players that jumped from Ragman to Klick has to be mafia if Ragman is mafia. Given my townread on Farside, and the opportune time of Brass' switch, I'm going to say it's probably Brass. I agree with Umlaut here, and feel like the Klick wagon at this point is a lot of forced nothingness.
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- LuckyLuciano
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- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2868
- Joined: March 1, 2020
@Quick, were you following the game prior to replacing in?
- LuckyLuciano
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
- LuckyLuciano
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2868
- Joined: March 1, 2020
I take this, being 4 minutes later, to mean that the answer to my last question is "no". Congrats Quick, in the blink of an eye you took all of the reasons I have to believe is town, and you have replaced them with a massive pile of, "Who told you to vote Hoctac immediately upon replacing in?"In post 468, Quick wrote:Okay, I have probably skimmed like 20 posts.
I have good feelings about Percivul.- LuckyLuciano
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
- LuckyLuciano
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2868
- Joined: March 1, 2020
Replacing out is always NAI. Don't try to read into it.In post 470, clidd wrote:You have strange feelings then, but nevermind.
Klick's exit here is probably emotional, so I think he's town.- LuckyLuciano
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
- LuckyLuciano
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2868
- Joined: March 1, 2020
I don't know how I feel about a 5-year old account self-declaring as a novice.In post 482, Persivul wrote:I'm a novice PR so I didn't want to play TOO obvtown and take the N1 kill, and I got nervous when hoctac made that post showing how townie I had been and so I backed off.- LuckyLuciano
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
- LuckyLuciano
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2868
- Joined: March 1, 2020
???? What even is this post ????In post 484, Quick wrote:Really sorry. You got robbed. Sorry again.- LuckyLuciano
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
- LuckyLuciano
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2868
- Joined: March 1, 2020
Really not liking this vibe.In post 485, Persivul wrote:
Yeah I'm fucking obvtown this game.In post 468, Quick wrote:Okay, I have probably skimmed like 20 posts.
I have good feelings about Percivul.- LuckyLuciano
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
- LuckyLuciano
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2868
- Joined: March 1, 2020
+1In post 499, clidd wrote:Shouldn't we wagon Zulfy ? He's hardcore lurking and he did the same thing in our past game, which he was scum.- LuckyLuciano
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LuckyLuciano Mafia Scum
- LuckyLuciano
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2868
- Joined: March 1, 2020
Why is you activity at this point in the game capable of being described, in whole, as reasons why you aren't doing anything?In post 502, Persivul wrote:
Asking isn't. Ordering is. "Do more" isn't a request, it's an order. I don't do orders.In post 496, farside22 wrote:How dare players ask you to make more then surface level post?? Thats not rude. - LuckyLuciano
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