Mini Normal 2139: No Flavor Allowed - Game Over

[Hoctac]

VOTE: Persivul

Happy to bookend this day.

[Hoctac]

Umlaut already trying to derail the quickly growing wagon on his scum buddy.

Page 1 solve: Persivul + Umlaut

[Hoctac]

I'm a doctor btw. Very well respected and under a lot of hard work nowadays. Now, I may also be a bulletproof person or some kind of commuter - there's no way of knowing really. All I'm saying is that I am a doctor and have several incubators at my disposal. That is all.

[Hoctac]

Persivul is narrow-minded. SCUM is narrow-minded.

[Hoctac]

Defensiveness and frustration isn't an alignment-indicative trait.

Persivul is still a scummy boy.

[Hoctac]

Umlaut is scummy for trying to again redirect attention back on me for attacking his scum buddy. Decent odds of scum.

clidd is very scummy for saying his concerned pool is 2 main wagons, and ME - which is unacceptable. Likely scum.

[Hoctac]

Umlaut is scummy for trying to again redirect attention back on me for attacking his scum buddy. Decent odds of scum.

clidd is very scummy for saying his concerned pool is 2 main wagons, and ME - which is unacceptable. Likely scum.

Are you N_M alt ?

No. I am a Hoctac alt.

[Hoctac]

clidd putting me at the bottom of his readslist is a clear sign of OMGUS - primarily exhibited by those with nefarious tools hidden in their back garden.

Ircher reading the read but only posting "reserved" fluff is also a bad sign. Likely scum.

[Hoctac]

My Persivul read is airtight. He jokingly hand-waived a wagon on him - bad sign.
He latched onto something he could push via policy (me) to look townie - stop sign.
He tried to defuse my read on him later - u turn sign.

[Hoctac]

You ask too many questions. You might be scum doing busywork.

Pick one question please.

[Hoctac]

You're trying to trap me into giving a response you can spin as scummy no matter what I say.

But fine, I will indulge you: I believe I already answered your question in 110. He tried not to look serious about a RVS wagon on him and then suddenly turned serious on me.

[Hoctac]

Umlaut is opportunistic scum taking advantage of a quickly growing wagon. You can see how the tide will turn and want to be on early, huh? I see right through you, Laut.

[Hoctac]

I don't do townreads. Everyone is varying degrees of scum. You are 60° scum which isn't too bad, but you have room for improvement.

[Hoctac]

Zulfy is only a little scummy.

[Hoctac]

His point on Lucky replicating town-meta was legit, and pointing out his frustration shouldn't be seen as town-indicative. He's 20° scum.

[Hoctac]

Retreated back to your scum PT to hide, have you?? Very well; this discussion is terminated.

[Hoctac]

Degrees go up to 360. You are currently at 110°.

The game is cracking wide open here. I see several factions forming around me.

On one side are the bandits of Persivul + Umlaut + Klick. They are led by the False King, who hails insults at my good name and honest doctoring profession.

On my other side are the raiders of Lucky + farside + Atarashi. They attack all attackers, defending their captain, Lucky.

Finally we have the rogue agents, clidd, and SirCakez. They seem on the prowl as neutral factions, waiting for their time to strike when the opportunity presents itself.

I am surrounded on All Sides.

[Hoctac]

VOTE: LuckyLuciano 190°

Happy to end this day; it's been stalled for a while now.

[Hoctac]

How do you expect to get more information without any night actions? Your displeasure with my vote is exactly why you're in the raider camp with Lucky. You're up to 80°.

We have some wagons. Pick a side and vote.

[Hoctac]

Vote between Lucky, Umlaut, and I. 3 big wagons, and all of scum's secrets will be revealed in due time.

[Hoctac]

Fine, I know what you're getting at and I'll give you a hand with Klick. Perhaps a temporary alliance between myself and your Rowdy Raider faction could be warranted. I know he's part of the Bickering Bandits, and you want as much support as you can get taking them down.

VOTE: Klick

[Hoctac]

But that means I'm allying with LuckyLuciano... I did not think this through.

No matter, I am a Hoctac of their word! Perhaps a new neutral-aligned faction amongst the other survivors could rise up and help me make sense of this mess.

[Hoctac]

I've played a lot of Secret Hitler. I played Mafia once before. I was scum and claimed a weird role but put the conditional or informed modified - can't remember what it was in the wrong place when stating the role, and got scumread for it by everyone and lynched.

I am never playing on that site again.

[Hoctac]

farside and Persivul claiming vig shots this early is very anti-town or just scum.

[Hoctac]

clidd, I'm trying my best here. I never claimed to be the best scumhunter.

It is not in my interest to argue with a lunatic, so please police yourself.

This speaks volumes to me, and makes me realise I may be taking a faulty approach. From here onward, everyone will be varying levels of town. "Scum" is a very harsh and rude word anyway, and I apologise to anyone I harmed or offended by using it.

You are 170° town, clidd.

[Hoctac]

I am not Hectic, clidd. I thank you for removing the vote. It's relieved an immense amount of pressure, and I hope we can continue to work together.

VOTE: persivul
scumlord

Cakez, are you the person I had an epic mylo 1v1 with? I can't remember for sure.

Town. Making idle chatter while a wagon's on him. Because he has nothing to hide and is innocent.

VOTE: Persivul
Happy to bookend this day.

Fastest L-2 in history maybe?

Towny. Natural and unworried about an early L-2.

VOTE: Hoctac

I hate that shit.

Towning. He's pushing a possible doc. Scum wouldn't be the first to do this so openly.

VOTE: Hoctac

I hate that shit.

What shit do you hate exactly?

Goofing around about claims.

Townity. Blunt and to the point. Doesn't need to over-justify himself.

And you think that's alignment-indicative, and a person who goofs around about claims on page 1 is more likely to be scum?

No, but I think it's anti-town and I'd PL it D1 no problem. Just can't get other people on board. LAL is dead.

TOWN. Openly admitting he's vanity wagoning a policy lynch. It's scummy which is why he's not scum for openly pursuing it.

Persivul is narrow-minded. SCUM is narrow-minded.

I know as scum I LOVE it when someone's pulling that shit. It's really easy to manipulate in later game.

tOwN. A fair point.

I cant say im a fan of his thought process on hotoc and i dont recall how he felt about that in the past.
I do remember it was a peeve of some plays in the past when player fake claim shit.

I have a long history of being against fake claiming.

Townlord. People don't understand his thought process. He calmly explains.

My Persivul read is airtight. He jokingly hand-waived a wagon on him - bad sign.

Oh do tell, what's the town way to respond to a page 1 L-2 wagon?

So town. "do tell" implies he can't believe what he's hearing. He doesn't think he's at fault whatsoever, since he knows he has a green PM and therefore can't be.

He tried not to look serious about a RVS wagon on him and then suddenly turned serious on me.

OK, explain what I was supposed to do between not taking a RVS wagon seriously, and then posting seriously? What kind of transition do you require there from town?

TOWN. He's not OMGUSing me or attacking all attackers. He's rationally asking me to explain my thought process, so that he can better understand. Constructive. Not destructive.

I hope that's enough to show what I mean.

[Hoctac]

Klick's posts feel very efficient, as if he's keeping them airtight and free of being poked at. Kind of like a Henry Hoover.

My townread on him is VERY weak.

[Hoctac]

If it's a wall, would you mind splitting it up into rows of bricks please?

[Hoctac]

Hoctac picked up the old newspaper clipping. It was covered with a coffee stain, and some of the ink was smudged, but the words were still legible.

"A Murder in Mason Mansion - 8th May, 1946"

Hoctac frowned, and continued reading, intrigued.

"A terrible tragedy had occured, where the Innocent Child, SausasaurusRex was found [REDACTED] inside his abode. clidd and Umlaut were spotted at different locations several hours later, nearby the Mason Mansion. Authorities have concluded that they could not have been conspiring in on the murder together, as clidd was wearing red, and Umlaut wearing green. There's no way they'd hang out with such clashing colours."

Hoctac gave the newspaper clipping a nod of approval. That made sense.

"One of The Force's very own detectives is also under suspicion. Inspector Klick was found ruling out suspects faster than a copped mafioso would claim miller. Placing Hoctac as one of his primary two suspects due to the erroneous process, despite Hoctac being null raises numerous alarm bells - not all of which are able to be snoozed At This Time."

Hoctac had read enough for now. These findings would do quite nicely to share to the rest of the group.

[Hoctac]

I scumread Klick and Quick independently. Would people like to see a scumcase? I'm good at making those.

I am not a night 4 vigilante.

[Hoctac]

Would you look at who it is. Heads up for everyone else:

Ame relishes in playing scum, so she only replaces into slots she hard scumreads after ISOing them in the replacement queue. Just some food for thought.

[Hoctac]

Would you look at who it is. Heads up for everyone else:

Ame relishes in playing scum, so she only replaces into slots she hard scumreads after ISOing them in the replacement queue. Just some food for thought.

I had a dream that you, in the form of your evil Mario avatar, and I had a battle to the death. It was quite gruesome...

I wonder why that was...

Also, I just got warned by the moderator for making that post. Apparently, he doesn't want me sheeping your past self to lynch you. I hope you're happy.

[Hoctac]

I have BIG news. I hope you're listening closely, because I'm about to crack this game WIDE open. They're gonna be talking about this post for mafia generations to come. This will probably get me that mOmEnT oF bRiLlIaNcE award for 2020. I'm not kidding btw. Read and take this post seriously.

So, it all started when I was making my scumcase for Klick/Quick (sometimes referred to as Kluick).

I came across his first post:

VOTE: Umlaut

I dunno about the Persivul wagon, but this is scum regardless.

A "strong" entrance, but an unnatural level of overconfidence. Remember how he has no scumreads later in the day, and claims his bottom two reads are "neutral"? Exhibiting a strong scumread such as this one does NOT fit the playstyle of a player who apparently townhunts and doesn't have many scumreads. As explained by him in 421 for example.

Let's move on to the his second post:

Zulfy is making sense.
VOTE: LuckyLuciano

Clidd's content is good so far, leaning town there.

He has already moved on from his Umlaut scumread, and is now sheeping a player without explanation. Now, on its own, this isn't too bad, but what you need to understand is that this is NOT a natural progression from his previous post and expressed level on confidence to this one. Spotting inconsistencies in thought processes is one of the BEST ways of finding scum, and is the number 1 scumtell I use.

.
.
.

Okay, let's take a break here.
So, I could go through all his posts and continue explaining why he's scum. Sure, I could do that. It'd be very easy.
OR, I could skip ahead to the post that absolutely 100% incriminates Qlick as scum. This is gonna be great. I hope you're ready.

THIS IS IT:

VOTE: valoneast
Atarashi/Hoctac: tell me why I shouldn't vote here.

This beauty right here. I'd like to thank farside for asking me to make the scumcase, as I likely otherwise would have missed this.

In this post, Klick is asking Atarashi and Hoctac (that's me!!!) about our opinions on valoneast, and why we shouldn't vote there. On it's own this post is strange, why ask us out of everyone? I don't see any reason prior in thread that he would be asking us two specifically.
Well, here's the thing: Atarashi, valoneast, and I are in a

neighbourhood

together. Klick is NOT in this neighbourhood. He is asking us because he knows we may have an opinion of valoneast formed from discussion in the hood, but has NO reason to be aware of this fact. Zulfy is also in this hood.
What this means is that Qlick is scum with one of Zulfy, Atarashi, or valoneast, and subconsioulsy let slip that he was aware of this info. The only other explanation is that he's an Informed Townie, that was for some reason aware of the hood, but is that even Normal? Probably not.

EVERYONE vote for Kluick today. This will clear me as town, and confirm one of Atarashi/valoneast/Zulfy as scum. This game is basically over already.

[Hoctac]

ALSO, I just realised that Klick asking Atarashi and I specifically probably means either valoneast or Zulfy is the scum partner of the 3. I think it's less likely he makes that info-perspective slip while asking a scum buddy why he shouldn't vote for the others in his hood.

[Hoctac]

How has no one sheeped my case yet. What do you think, SirCakez?

[Hoctac]

How has no one sheeped my case yet. What do you think, SirCakez?

Quick/Klick is already my top SR and I'm voting them
What do you want from me lol

oh okay fine, i'll let you off this one time

[Hoctac]

Honestly, I wasn't expecting scum!Quick to go down this route either. I thought he'd try to brush it off as a coincidence. I still think he's scum though, there's reasons outside of the potential knowledge slip which make both him and Klick scummy.

Why have I "ruined the game", Quick? What have we lost?

[Hoctac]

What's your read on me now?

[Hoctac]

Quick!!!!!!!!!1 Do you townread or scumread me? Answer please.

[Hoctac]

@Hoctac: Who is in your neighborhood?

Atarashi, valonhost, zulfy.

[Hoctac]

I am an Informed Towie and now I am dead. Congrats for ruining the game.

INFORMED TOWNIE

Okay, is that clear enough for you?

Yeah, the thing I was going to wait on Quick's response for was that Informed Townie with knowledge of a neighborhood is as far as I can tell totally Normal.

If Quick were scum there is a possibility he would be unsure about that and not want to make that claim, which would make life harder for him. Since he did make that claim I suppose that didn't work, but I can see the post Hoctac calls out as more likely as a crumb than a slip.

Congrats, Hactoc is the smartest person to ruin a game................

So you think he's town now?

LOL.

What's with this then? You're talking about me like you know I'm town, saying I "ruined the game", but then suggest you're scumreading me in that last post. I think you forgot you were supposed to be scumreading me, didn't ya?

The mOmEnT oF bRiLlIaNcE award is still on the cards!!!£"24

[Hoctac]

@Hoctac: Who is in your neighborhood?

Atarashi, valonhost, zulfy.

zulfy needs to be here for an proper read on that group.

VOTE: brass

Who else do you scum read beside quick/klick?

Idk about scumreads but it's most likely Zulfy with Quick based on Klick voting valon while asking me/Atarashi, I think he's less likely to ask his own scum buddy while making the slip, and slightly less likely to vote his scum buddy at that stage.

Zulfy>valon>Atarashi would be my guess on that post alone.

[Hoctac]

VOTE: Hoctac

There's at least one of the scum in the neighborhood. I've been trying to engage and literally just pointed out don't out the neighborhood's existence, because we are neighbors, not masons. Talk to me, etc.

I also pointed out that despite his scummy behaviors his first post in the Neighborhood is saying he's got another PR. No prodding, he just comes in with it.

I was trying to work a little bit there to get information, but, at this point only one of them is even engaging me and the other reacted right after I pointed out we weren't confirmed town and should consider it but not lynch a claimed bigger PR day 1 by going ahead and ignoring me.

Also, the only reason he tells everyone in the neighborhood he is a PR in the first post are the old scum or dumb, and this is now scum, not allowed to be dumb.

Did you not see my theory? One you is scum with Qlick, why would I not out the neighbourhood at that point?

Is that a chainsaw I hear? Surely it can't be

that

easy.

[Hoctac]

I've been trying to engage and literally just pointed out don't out the neighborhood's existence, because we are neighbors, not masons.

I don't get this. You're saying you'd be fine with outing it if we were masons, but aren't fine with outing it because we're neighbours?

[Hoctac]

You're the only one dying today, m80.

[Hoctac]

How in the world is Quick only on 2 votes?

[Hoctac]

Assuming my theory is correct, I do currently think brass is mostly likely to be the partner in the hood because of 645 which was REALLY bad.

Why are you bussing, Quick?

[Hoctac]

Or maybe it's Zulfy + Quick pushing the counterwagon, and brass is being a duffer.

[Hoctac]

VOTE: brassherald

I shall sheep Ame who is sheeping farside.

:taps head:

[Hoctac]

If brass flips scum, it's probably still Quick, Umlaut.

[Hoctac]

"Why would Hoctac bring that possibility up for him at all?" and wished he hadn't

This is a good point. I should've feigned ignorance about it. I only thought of it literally as I typed that sentence in the post. wHoOpS

[Hoctac]

I'm going to refrain from feeling a little sick that persivul just followed my vote.
*deep breath*

You're really fucking full of yourself sometimes.

aggression with no rationale. faking anger to be townread

13. SirCakez - comes in and out of the conversation a couple of times, never posting anything relevant to the conversation.

I take offense to this

I thought it was pretty accurate.

shading Cakez without reasoning

L-1. This is where someone already on the wagon is supposed to fake hammer.

funny little comment about fake-hammers. still no game progressing content

Here's how the site has gone in the five years I've been here:

Reads lists suck. We don't need to make them.
Lynch All Liars is outdated. I like making fakeclaims as town because I'm oh so clever I'll out the scum that way.
Holy shit, town win rates are way down! We need to tilt the setups in favor of town!

complaining about site meta unprompted. still nothing useful

Pers, it's nice of you to join us again, care to put any info INTO the game's characters? And not how we should be playing?

Not right now, no. Plenty of content is going up and it's a two-week phase. I don't need to post at the moment. I'm admittedly prodging to an extent.

openwolfing. wants to get away with prodging with no content

Your posts are 1-2 sentences long and most of them are "on topic" in the loose sense that they're about the game but don't really do anything to solve it. And you came back from not having posted for a while to make another one-sentence inconsequential comment. Do more.

Fuck you. You don't know me very well. I don't take well to orders.

fake anger

Fuck you. You don't know me very well. I don't take well to orders.

See, that's three sentences! Already an improvement, now you just need the "being useful" part.

Er...FUCK YOU again.

Mod already warned me on language, so I'm going to be booted, but frankly I don't want to be in a game where sniveling little shits can make snide remarks like that, but I can't call them out for it with strong language.

I'm a novice PR so I didn't want to play TOO obvtown and take the N1 kill, and I got nervous when hoctac made that post showing how townie I had been and so I backed off.

Happy now dipshit?

really fake anger and a really fake claim. are we supposed to believe he was "worried" about being killed n1 due to my towncase, and then goes from that to claiming a PR unprompted? if he's town, he should be alright with being suspected a little, since it means he won't die night 1. instead, he takes the polar opposite route and claims PR, making him a lot more likely to be killed which is what he was trying to avoid (apparently)

this is not town and does not come from a town perspective

i rest my case

[Hoctac]

Would you look at who it is. Heads up for everyone else:

Ame relishes in playing scum, so she only replaces into slots she hard scumreads after ISOing them in the replacement queue. Just some food for thought.

I had a dream that you, in the form of your evil Mario avatar, and I had a battle to the death. It was quite gruesome...

Natural entrance into the game. Towny.

I'll vote wherever farside votes

[post=brass]brass[/post]

nothing to see here


VOTE: brass

Openly admitting she's sheeping someone, and clumsily messing up a vote tag - indicative of someone who doesn't care so much about their posts (town).

Paragraphs, Mr. Clidd. Paragraphs.

Means she's reading along, and is okay with admitting that. Scum would be worried about being accused of actively lurking, and probably wouldn't make that post.

My guy claimed a pr?

lol i c

Is this your main?

Cool.

Nice lax convo. Shows the mindset of someone that is free with the wind, and doesn't care about the presentation of one's posts. Really towny. Under an untrained eye, this set of posts might even look scummy, but the fact they could look kind of scummy is exactly why Ame doesn't make them here.

I rest my case.

Should I do more cases? I feel this is enough for now.

[Hoctac]

Reads Right Now:

farside
Ame

clidd
Looker


SirCakez

TOWN LINE - Above this:

Protect at all costs

MAYBE SCUM LINE - Below this:

Give a Stern Talking To

Umlaut
Ruendo


SCUM LINE - Below this:

Quarantine or Exterminate

Lucky
Zulfy

valoneast

brassherald
Persivul


Quick

[Hoctac]

Glad we agree, Umlaut!!!!!!!1

Anyone, I gotta go now. Shame you arrived at such an inopportune time.

[Hoctac]

VOTE: Quick

We're back in business.

[Hoctac]

Lucky or Persivul was my best guess for third scum - other 2 being Quick + someone in the hood. But Lucky's push on Quick gives me pause.

Lucky still hasn't explained his intial reasons for "replicating/copying his town meta" - you ready to reveal those now, Lucky?

Persivul is maybe probably just scum irrespective of other scums though; see my scumcase if you're not convinced.

[Hoctac]

brass + Quick is definitely a possibility, Looker. The fact they're the main two wagons with no alternatives is an eh, but brass' chainsaw on me to defend Quick was so bad that I struggle to see that being town.

I'll just vig brass tonight so we don't have to worry about it tomorrow.

[Hoctac]

Persivul is maybe probably just scum irrespective of other scums though; see my scumcase if you're not convinced.

I couldn't tell if you were serious or not because you immediately followed it with your towncase on Ame. But at any rate it wasn't much of a case IMO.

How is that relevant?

[Hoctac]

...Ah

I thought Ame replaced someone else, please ignore me

wait, what is my read on that slot then???

[Hoctac]

I find your paranoia hilarious, Umalaut lol

I'm actually quite confused on the slot now. It simultaneously has a lot of scum and town equity, and I'm not sure what to make of that.

The way I make reads is to look for a couple of really towny or scummy things a player has done to determine my read of them. Taking a holistic approach and reading a player on all of their actions as a whole often leads to disaster, and failing or formulate any real read on them, due to too many moving parts.

Just look for the really towny/scummy posts, and ignore the rest.

[Hoctac]

Okay, what if Brass is Town? Then it looks like you are building wagons on 2 Town. Do you understand that or naw?

Why are you asking Looker this while simultaneously thinking brass is scum?

[Hoctac]

You are probably Town this game because I read this post with an extra helping of authentic written all over it.

Also, this feels like buddying when he switches his vote from you to brass.

[Hoctac]

#quicklynchquick!!!!!!!

[Hoctac]

lololol

valon, are you suggesting Quick could be scum who was informed of 4 townies in a hood??

it's one of you as scum with Quick, that's why he knew about the hood, he's not informed townie, or an informed scummie who was told about 4 townies

and no, we can't prove whether or not he's telling the truth without lynching him

[Hoctac]

valon m8 you're not even voting Quick

hop on board

[Hoctac]

BUT I made my CASE on why you're SCUM, and a lot of people SEEM to agree. So unfortunately I think you're GETTING lynched today.

[Hoctac]

farside, why are you voting brass over Quick? Or do you think they're both scum?

[Hoctac]

V/LA until Friday.

I'll still be able to meet deadlines.

Have you read my case, Ame?

Vote Quick before you go pls

[Hoctac]

VOTE: Quick

There's a neighborhood, right? Who is in it?

Me, brass, valoneast, Zulfy.

One of us is scum with Quick.

[Hoctac]

Thanks btw

[Hoctac]

Are you trying to fake townslip lol?

I just counted and you're on L-1

[Hoctac]

Can you explain what votes you think are on you?

[Hoctac]

Oi Zulfy why aren't you posting in the hood m8

[Hoctac]

Quick, you're on L-1 and I don't think you actually believe you were hammered.

Explain how you miscounted please.

[Hoctac]

That was pretty funny tbh lol

[Hoctac]

^That was to Zulfy

Quick, you're on L-1 and I don't think you actually believe you were hammered.

Explain how you miscounted please.

I've had a number of good laughs this day but this was a good one, thanks.

By the way, I am also a fruit vender.

So, is this you claiming scum?

[Hoctac]

...

Why do you think that was "L-1 or something"? Did you count from the previous VC or just assume that for whatever reason?

[Hoctac]

(I'm the tiger btw)

All this aside, I've enjoyed playing with you regardless of what you flip, Quick, though I'm pretty confident you're scum lul

Just want you to know that though.

[Hoctac]

This is a Ame power play where she unvotes so she can be the hammer. I've seen it done in the movies.

[Hoctac]

Thanks for taking my play into consideration. Really great of you to do that, I appreciate it.

Sorry, not my fault you share the same slot <3

You should've taken Ame's slot. She's playing it optimally so far.

[Hoctac]

TMCSGOAL? That's a classic. Done a few of those in my time actually.

[Hoctac]

TMCSGOAL?

I forgot the L is silent in Ltime

lol yeah lesser known fact actually

thanks, Zulfy, my cases are soul reads and are only wrong 5% of the time, half of the time.

[Hoctac]

Ame, is your Cakez read a meta one or are you doing [REDACTED] for [REDACTED]?

[Hoctac]

Because Klick slipped, Ame. Quick is getting lynched no matter what happens here, I don't need to butter you up to hammer lul

Why do you scumread those two?

[Hoctac]

Lynching in the hood is 1/4 - assuming 1 scum. Lynching outside of the hood is 2/8 (from a town PoV).

Kuick has been scummy outside of the slip.

If this is [REDACTED] though, I respect it.

[Hoctac]

Bold of you to assume that, Zulfy. You haven't seen my role yet.

[Hoctac]

What do you think is the scum-motivation in that, Ame?

[Hoctac]

Lynching in the hood is 1/4 - assuming 1 scum. Lynching outside of the hood is 2/8 (from a town PoV).

Come to think of it, you're in the 'hood, so from your own town PoV shouldn't these be 1/3 and 2/9 respectively?

Yeah, I was listing what Ame should be seeing from a town PoV, which makes her reasoning of wanting to lynch inside the hood incorrect.

[Hoctac]

That sounds pretty smart actually, but I suspect you should know the one main reason I'd do something like that. And it has nothing to do with my alignment.

[Hoctac]

No, I actually wrote it in the 4 min between the posts lol

I was actually quite impressed with that

[Hoctac]

Ame is obvscum. I'll vig her tonight.

[Hoctac]

If you hammer Quick, I'll give you a dollar in the night.

[Hoctac]

What do YOU have to offer, farside?? I doubt you can top that.

[Hoctac]

My Finger of Suspicion is stronger than a dayvig; I'd be more than happy to utilise it during the night. That said, I don't actually have the role.

[Hoctac]

I never said I wasn't a

night

vig though

[Hoctac]

%_%

VOTE: brass

[Hoctac]

Brass is so scummy in the hood. Overnight, he stated I was 100% scum if I was still alive today, due to my WIFOM claim of doctor at the start of the game (I did that in the thread and hood).

[Hoctac]

VOTE: Hoctac

There's at least one of the scum in the neighborhood. I've been trying to engage and literally just pointed out don't out the neighborhood's existence, because we are neighbors, not masons. Talk to me, etc.

I also pointed out that despite his scummy behaviors his first post in the Neighborhood is saying he's got another PR. No prodding, he just comes in with it.

I was trying to work a little bit there to get information, but, at this point only one of them is even engaging me and the other reacted right after I pointed out we weren't confirmed town and should consider it but not lynch a claimed bigger PR day 1 by going ahead and ignoring me.

Also, the only reason he tells everyone in the neighborhood he is a PR in the first post are the old scum or dumb, and this is now scum, not allowed to be dumb.

You didn't explain this, brass. Why should we want to out if we're masons, and not if it's a hood?

[Hoctac]

I shall give valoneast the privilege of summarising the overnight discussion. The stage is yours.

[Hoctac]

Permission to read granted.

[Hoctac]

I've been trying to engage and literally just pointed out don't out the neighborhood's existence, because we are neighbors, not masons.

"Don't out the neighborhood's existence, because we are

neighbors

, not

masons

."

How can you believe that?

Also, address my #45 from the hood.

Look, brass, we can haggle if you'd like. Tell us how many scum are on prime numbers in the playerlist, and we'll save you for lylo.

[Hoctac]

pinky promise

[Hoctac]

You have a guilty on Cakez?

[Hoctac]

Well, this is fun. I vigged Ame last night but I left the safety on by mistake. I'll try again this night.

Think about what you do/don't need to out, Ame.

[Hoctac]

VOTE: Ame

QUICK, while she's asleep!!!21

[Hoctac]

UNVOTE: Ame

[Hoctac]

Zulfy still hasn't answered my very important question in the hood actually.

[Hoctac]

Why? What did you realise in the reread?

[Hoctac]

SirCakez, how did you forget the whole reason I (being in the hood) was pushing Quick 2 days ago? I even prompted you for what you thought of my case.

[Hoctac]

Ame, what do you think of clidd now?

[Hoctac]

Nice.

[Hoctac]

@clidd, have you ever joked about yourself being scum before?

[Hoctac]

Vanity wagon. Brass and Ame voteparked you for safety.

What does this mean? Are you scumreading me by assuming Ame is scum?

[Hoctac]

SirCakez, how did you forget the whole reason I (being in the hood) was pushing Quick 2 days ago? I even prompted you for what you thought of my case.

I did notice that; I wasn't totally unaware of the hood. Just of the constituents.

I mean, I made the case because I was in the hood. Did you realise I was in the hood while reading the case or surrounding discussion about it?

[Hoctac]

I still don't know who the neighbors are other than the dead brass. I'm sure it's been said somewhere now and I missed some posts

What what what?

[Hoctac]

I'm waiting on Ame to present her clidd!scum case.

[Hoctac]

What was the basis for your scumread on me, or was that faked?

[Hoctac]

Oh yeah lul, that was fun. Why did you find that manipulative given Quick was the only large wagon at the time, and would most likely be the end of day lynch whatever happened? What was to gain?

[Hoctac]

Unfortunately, people tend to take open wolfing as a town tell but I think it's apparent Hoc is scum.

Umlaut, you noticed earlier when Hoc lied about not knowing I was the Persi slot, yes? What do you think to be the town motivation for this? (Partially rhetorical)

Mr. Clidd, where are you on Hoctac? Care to join me?

What do you think is the scum-motivation in that, Ame?

General chaos. Your play is centered around masking your scum motive by making contradiction the norm. By having two reads on my slot, you can read me without reading me, and it puts you in a position where you can flexibly alter the read.

What changed your mind from this?

[Hoctac]

But ending the day 10 days in advance after a bunch of slots just replaced in and hadn't had a chance to voice themselves is advantageous to scum. I think that is pretty straightforward.

This is fair btw. I was really excited at the time to see Quick flip scum though; I was convinced I actually caught a slip lul

[Hoctac]

Okay, but do you still scumread me for those reasons? And if not, what changed?

[Hoctac]

I'm talking about what changed your opinion from what you said in 1363 (the openwolfing and chaos and confusion stuff). Persi was pretty towny in his outrage, and I found it hilarious that he got paranoid and scared of being nightkilled after I "towncased" him.

I don't know what to make of your cop claim yet. I'm assuming you have good reason to not out it, but you just revealed I wasn't the player you cleared with it.

[Hoctac]

I'm talking about what changed your opinion from what you said in 1363 (the openwolfing and chaos and confusion stuff).

I don't mean this with regards to the cop check, I'm talking about how you're treating me as town today with how you were saying to clidd he'd have to get me on his side to lynch you

[Hoctac]

My point is that some of your reasons for scumreading me seemed to be outside of the Quick case, which is what I quoted in 1363. I'm saying why you don't still dislike me for those reasons in particular.

[Hoctac]

Like, has your interpretation of that changed, or do you still think what I did there was scummy?

[Hoctac]

Unfortunately, people tend to take open wolfing as a town tell but I think it's apparent Hoc is scum.

Umlaut, you noticed earlier when Hoc lied about not knowing I was the Persi slot, yes? What do you think to be the town motivation for this? (Partially rhetorical)

Mr. Clidd, where are you on Hoctac? Care to join me?

What do you think is the scum-motivation in that, Ame?

General chaos. Your play is centered around masking your scum motive by making contradiction the norm. By having two reads on my slot, you can read me without reading me, and it puts you in a position where you can flexibly alter the read.

Because I'm trying to get your opinion on these two posts specifically.

[Hoctac]

I think you're confusing 1363 with 1365 lol

[Hoctac]

Lul, I see. This is has truly been a high level discussion. I must depart now.

[Hoctac]

What to do, what to do.

[Hoctac]

Snarky Looker is indicative of town!Looker.

Ame, why not claim your inno? If you die, the information dies with you.

[Hoctac]

clidd, I don't think posting in the scum PT would influence the majority of mods' decisions for replacements, for exactly for the reasons that you're using to draw that Reundo is scum (would be unfair).

[Hoctac]

I like the theory though.

[Hoctac]

I still have no idea what to think of Ame lol. I agree with what clidd was saying that this feels so sloppy and scummy and therefore looks nothing like Ame's scum game.

[Hoctac]

You investigated Brass, got a guilty, and immediately voted Cakez?

Then outed as one-shot cop but didn't out your one result?

Which, again, was a guilty. On a person you weren't voting

Why did you do this, Ame?

[Hoctac]

I never said I was down to lynch Ame in the hood, where did you get that from, Zulfy?

I'm not confident on her though. I'll summarise my thoughts from the hood

[Hoctac]

> Mention wanting to see Ame's scumcase on clidd, think it'll help me sort her
> Wonder if Ame's intentionally playing off her scum meta as scum
> Mention her play here is very different to her other 2 scum games (lower effort, less consistent/towny sounding)

[Hoctac]

If anything, please don't hammer before we get the replacements in pls

[Hoctac]

Ame, I will believe you unconditionally but only if you tell me what you thought of those two songs.

[Hoctac]

Why did you do this, Ame?

didn't want to quick lynch or spend the day on a person I already knew was scum. had we utilized the day we possibly could have gotten some spew based on who brass tried to push

This is her explanation, Cakez. What do you think?

[Hoctac]

Top tier replacements btw. I have towntell on Bla which I will use promptly.

[Hoctac]

There's a towntell you do, Bla. Can you guess what it is?

[Hoctac]

I'm not sure yet where I want to vote. I'm just not getting any ~strong~ scum feelings from anyone yet. I could see Ame being scum still but want to give her some time/space to explain her scumcase on you when she's more free.

[Hoctac]

Cakez forgetting I was in the hood is sus, but idk if he fakes that as scum to try and make it look like a lack of knowledge townslip.

[Hoctac]

There's a towntell you do, Bla. Can you guess what it is?

Breaking almost every grammar rule

English has

english have?

No... that's your scumslip !_!

[Hoctac]

I'm not sure why you expect me to townread you, Ame. I know you're very capable of adapting your meta, so the paranoia will probably never completely go away. Why were you calling clidd obvscum?

[Hoctac]

Tbh, looking scummy might be a towntell though.

Leaning towards voting Cakez right now.

[Hoctac]

Hate to break it to you, but the towncase was 100% a meme. I'm glad I was convincing though.

[Hoctac]

Lul, don't expect a free townread, I saw your work first hand in partition. I'd say you're a townlean all in all right now.

[Hoctac]

Funny, you ask that, I just retook the MBTI literally a couple of hours ago. Let's hear your predictions.

[Hoctac]

How often, if ever, do you get exhausted from playing mafia? And if/when you do, what do you do about it (continue playing in your games but with less effort, replace out and spend time doing X activities, etc)?

I've burnt out on forum mafia before, and took a month or 2 break. However, that was filled in with plenty of real life mafia, sooo. If we're talking shorter lulls, I usually keep playing but post with reduced effort. Occasionally, I replace out if I feel I'm not doing my slot justice. I had a period of time playing as the broomstick account where it was stressing me out. So, I alternated between my only two games each day, spending an hour in the evening on each, and not reading the game outside of that time slot.

[Hoctac]

Also, do you believe in God?

Agnostic.

[Hoctac]

I'm not confident enough to make a convincing case, Auro. I'd probably end up looking for reasons to scumread him to fit my narrative. I'll probably put some effort in to finding scum tomorrow though.

[Hoctac]

I like your cape.

[Hoctac]

I'll answer questions straight away if I feel I can answer them correctly from memory. If they require some rereading or I think I'd be making up the answers more than being honest, I'll put them aside for when I have time and feel motivated to read back to answer them well.
No, I used this one. The one you sent her looks pretty interesting though! I'll probably do it later.

[Hoctac]

I'll give you a clue: The EI, SN, and TF are all at most 8% apart (as in 54/46 splits). I don't know if that helps lul

[Hoctac]

I would guess ENTJ for you btw

[Hoctac]

Actually, maybe I. Not sure.

[Hoctac]

You're right!! I'm ENFP. I'm actually kind of the same where I'll get very drained after too much social interaction, but I love people and usually force myself to anyway even while exhausted, which probably tips the scale to E slightly.

[Hoctac]

The personal biggest flaw in MBTI, in my opinion, is that the four "dichotomies" they test for aren't bimodal in reality, but are normally distributed; i.e. there are a lot more people centered around the middle point than towards the extremes. When you're ~50, the test buckets you depending on the whether you're slightly above or below 50. Someone with 52 would be called an E, and someone with 48 an I, but two my eyes both would be more or less similar in reality.

So especially in your case, Hoctac, I doubt you fall into any particular "type" strongly - you appear to be a well balanced person

I think you might be right. Maybe if I take the test again in a month and depending on my mood, I could get a completely different result.

shrug

[Hoctac]

So your Michael Scott account is just a massive lie??

[Hoctac]

I think it's very likely 1 or even both scum were bussing brass, the lynch happened way to quickly and brass was happy to end the day to prevent further discussion.

[Hoctac]

Day 2 VC #4 (FINAL)

Hoctac (0):

brassherald (6) (HAMMER @ 1251): SirCakez (1190), Hoctac (1192), valoneast (1195), Zulfy (1209), Looker (1250), brassherald (1251)

SirCakez (2): Ame (1189), farside22 (1191)
Not Voting (3): clidd, Reundo, Umlaut

With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch a player.

This phase will end on May 23, 2020 11:00 AM EDT (GMT-4:00) or in (expired on 2020-05-23 11:00:00).

Moderator Notes

1. If you have regular weekend V/LA, you must either notify me each time or set V/LA tags each time.
2. This game will use a combination of manual and automated votecounts. (The automated ones are made using MathBlade's Vote Scrubber.) I will mainly start by posting an automated votecount and then edit in a manual one later. This allows me to spot errors in the automated votecount as well as build the voting history for the game.
3.

Please note the prod timers. You will be prodded after 32 hours on Tuesday-Friday.

4. Ame is V/LA until Friday, May 15, 2020.

Actually, it's either:

• Brass was bussed, 1 or both scum hopped on and pushed him. brass self-hammered to cut discussion short.
  
• Town were correct in scumreading brass, so brass had very little to no chance of getting out of the lynch and wanted to cut discussion short, so hammered.

[Hoctac]

So my toilet broke yesterday and today's mother's day where I'm trying to somehow with social distancing figure out how we are spending time with two moms. Back tomorrow.

This is a prodge.

VOTE: Hoctac

There's at least one of the scum in the neighborhood. I've been trying to engage and literally just pointed out don't out the neighborhood's existence, because we are neighbors, not masons. Talk to me, etc.

I also pointed out that despite his scummy behaviors his first post in the Neighborhood is saying he's got another PR. No prodding, he just comes in with it.

I was trying to work a little bit there to get information, but, at this point only one of them is even engaging me and the other reacted right after I pointed out we weren't confirmed town and should consider it but not lynch a claimed bigger PR day 1 by going ahead and ignoring me.

Also, the only reason he tells everyone in the neighborhood he is a PR in the first post are the old scum or dumb, and this is now scum, not allowed to be dumb.

You didn't explain this, brass. Why should we want to out if we're masons, and not if it's a hood?

I think you just can't read, I was saying that masons are assured to be aligned, hood is not.

VOTE: hoctac

I've been trying to engage and literally just pointed out don't out the neighborhood's existence, because we are neighbors, not masons.

"Don't out the neighborhood's existence, because we are

neighbors

, not

masons

."

How can you believe that?

Also, address my #45 from the hood.

Look, brass, we can haggle if you'd like. Tell us how many scum are on prime numbers in the playerlist, and we'll save you for lylo.

Is 1 a prime number? Also is 4?

VOTE: brassherald

Take me, you sexy hammerman!

These were brass' only 4 posts yesterday lol. That's not very helpful.

[Hoctac]

I feel like i did when i created a game where everyone had 2 votes that they could use to either vote a player twice or split their votes between 2 scum reads. If i could do that I'd vote for cakez too right now.

Talk to me about this read because I'm not seeing Cakez scum at all. He could certainly be efforting more (hey Cakez, you really need to effort more) but he just seems like low-energy town. His tone is pretty free and his impressions of the game look natural and unforced, and he's transparent about being sort of lost.

Cakez makes more of an effort typically. The lack of follow through and really good reads or free following thoughts are missing from him.
IE: this game not the typical town cakez.

I'm disengaged :/
Trying to effort more now

brassherald is not improving my read on the Atarashi slot. Hate that entrance.
I like Lucky's recent posts better. I think it's plausible that he just had foot in mouth.
Klick has done nothing to improve my read there so
VOTE: Klick

TRs on Valon, Lucky, farside (she doesn't push me here as scum I think), Hoctac (I think his lack of caring about people's reads on his playstyle is town), Ame/Persivul
Nullish on Looker/Ragman, Reundo (these people don't have enough content or I'm unable to read what they have)
Scumlean on Zulfy, Umlaut
SRs on Quick/Klick, maybe brassherald/Atarashi dependent on meta

Don't like Umlaut's Persivul push. He's attacking Pers for things that are NAI.
I hate the composition of the Ragman wagon.
Quick's entrance not helping my read on the slot.
Persivul is rude but probably a town slot from his final reactions before getting the boot.
My Zulfy read is sinking the longer he goes without posting.
Will definitely be keeping a close eye on Ame after Hungarian 2

I think brass is a good candidate for scum in this apparent hood

VOTE: brass
Should go after the hood now that we know Quick was telling the truth

Cakez, you voiced suspicion on brass multiple times beforehand but never gave a reason. Why did you scumread him?

[Hoctac]

VOTE: Cakez

[Hoctac]

Lul what

You two are in a hood together?

[Hoctac]

I told her to do it.

Spiritually, of course.

Interesting

I'll vig Ame tonight. She's not getting away with this one.

[Hoctac]

Lul, well I did say I was gonna vig Ame...

[Hoctac]

Hey guys can we maybe wagon some scum today?

Out-of-the-neighborhood players: {Looker, Umlaut, clidd, Blatant Scum}

Honestly I would lynch any of these except myself, but I still want to start with Looker. I don't understand at all the pass he's gotten this game.

VOTE: Looker

Hoc can you put Cakez at L-1 for claim?

VOTE: Cakez

Hoctac, why did you go along with this?

Hey guys can we maybe wagon some scum today?

Out-of-the-neighborhood players: {Looker, Umlaut, clidd, Blatant Scum}

Honestly I would lynch any of these except myself, but I still want to start with Looker. I don't understand at all the pass he's gotten this game.

VOTE: Looker

Hoc can you put Cakez at L-1 for claim?

VOTE: Cakez

Hoctac, why did you go along with this?

Cakez was my preffered lynch and I didn't know Ame was gonna quickhammer.

[Hoctac]

With Looker, BS and me being town, you are the only possible scum outside the neighbor> {

Looker

, Umlaut,

clidd

,

Blatant Scum

}

Woah, that is huge.

[Hoctac]

I think clidd is telling the truth. First instinct is that it's Umlaut + Auro over Zulfy probably.

At the bottom of page 71, will be back later.

[Hoctac]

Traitor seems too schticksy for Ircher.
Both of my neighbors would be cruel.

What do you mean by too "schticksy"?

[Hoctac]

Especially Hoctac that looks like a ghost in his infinite VLA.

I'm here for a bit!

[Hoctac]

Neighbours are gonna claim between ourselves in the hood. Once we're done, Looker should go ahead and claim and then we can out what we claimed from the hood.

[Hoctac]

If Umlaut is town, traitor is a lot more likely than 3 scum being in the hood, I don't see how that would pass review for a "normal" game.

I feel like my old friend Umlaut probably flips scum here though lul. You couldn't find it within yourself to betray me in the Blitz, but you have no qualms now, eh? Why did you popcorn me over Auro/Zulfy, as in why am I more suspect?

[Hoctac]

VOTE: Umlaut

clidd, it doesn't make sense to lynch anyone in the hood today. Most likely, this just flips scum, and then I need to figure out if it's Auro or Zulfy or even consider the traitor possibility. That should be fun.

[Hoctac]

I'm afraid all your reasons are utterly NAI, Umaut.

[Hoctac]

OH, there was a reason for the vig thing. I thought there was a possibility that Ame was odd-night cop or lying about being 1-shot, so I claimed I'd vig her to maybe deter a nightkill. It's the same reason I claimed I'd vig her two days prior because Persivul had claimed a PR. She lived through N2 but I don't think scum believed me for N3 lul. I would've bought it.

[Hoctac]

That said, I am not retracting my vig claim.

[Hoctac]

UNVOTE: Umlaut

[Hoctac]

Thing is, if clidd is scum, that's a sizable hole in town PR power.

Follower + 1-shot Cop is just not enough I don't think.

[Hoctac]

Zulfy, do you townread Umlaut or like him by virtue of scumreading clidd?

[Hoctac]

This reads so much as Umlaut + Zulfy right now. The only thing which concerns me about that would be that is how it's almost too obvious with how they're defending each other.

If scum!Umlaut is lynched today:
Scum!Zulfy would be put in 5p tomorrow. Would have to be the last neigbour standing if we lynch 2/3 neighbours and trust clidd wasn't bussing, and discount the traitor, actually there's a lot if possibilities here.

[Hoctac]

Okay, let's talk about clidd!scum scenario. He would get a mislynch on Umlaut today, and then rely on us trusting him in 5p LyLo, in order to get a game winning mislynch in the hood probably. clidd + Looker/Bla would make most sense if he's going for an all out win. Zulfy + clidd are probably disaligned with how clidd is okay with a Zulfy lynch and Zulfy is currently gunning for a clidd lynch, it seems too risky if there ends up being any takers for either.

Scum would have to be very weak in PRs for this to make sense though. Am I forgetting a town PR? It's only Follower + 1-shot Cop otherwise, right?

[Hoctac]

I'm not ignoring the Bla thing, Umlaut. Bla claiming scum is NAI so I didn't think too much of him crumbing, or in this case loaving traitor.

But the theory that he's a traitor that can get away with soft claiming it to scum in the hood is interesting. Blaaaa, come back to us.

[Hoctac]

Damn, Umlaut, this is more effort than I've seen from you in any of the other games. Shame that includes a town and a scum game. Remind me which alignment you enjoy more? I'm sure you've told me before but I've forgotten over the years

[Hoctac]

Here is my suggestion:
1) no lynch today
2) Hoctac shoots someone from the neighboardhood. If we have only two dead tommorow, he is confirmed.
3) clidd checks out Umlaut tonight.

Alright, so we can't do this. Who do you want to lynch today?

[Hoctac]

Lynching in the hood is baaaad. Mechanically speaking, Umlaut can be scum with anyone in the game. In a similar vein, Bla can be traitor with anyone in the game. But I can't see Zulfy and Auro both being scum, because 3 in a hood never happens mechanically.

One of the hoodies probably gets NKed tonight and then we'll have to figure out if it was 1 or 2 in the hood.

[Hoctac]

Bla can never be scum with Looker either actually.

[Hoctac]

Looker, can you confirm you're a VT when you get back? Everyone else in the game has claimed.

[Hoctac]

Trying to solve one game while trying not to get scumread by the same people in another has been an endeavor I don't look forward to repeating (and, though I couldn't say so at the time, was part of the reason I killed you over Planes in Micro 938, because I felt you were much more likely to see through my scum game given that you were watching my town game at the same time).

Interesting! I want to believe this thought process and it'd be really town-indicative if I wasn't playing with town!you in Blitz simulatenously - that was running at the same time, right?

I forgive you for brutally murdering me btw.

[Hoctac]

Bla didn't claim his results, we should definitely wait for a rep first.

And dw, Umlaut, I take being killed as a badge of honour. It hurts less to be killed over being decieved anyway.

[Hoctac]

Hey, Morning Twe- oh

[Hoctac]

Maybe clidd's PM holds so much power that even Morning Tweet cannot handle it.

VOTE: Blatant Scum

Let's purge him.

[Hoctac]

Replacements!!1

To answer you earlier question, Micc: If I don't believe the scumteam is exactly brass + Auro + Zulfy, and I'm some kind of undercover cop who hasn't been told they're an undercover cop (which is way too cruel), one of the 3 is likely:

Umlaut scum.
Bla is a traitor - weakness of traitor is balanced by "godfatherness" against a town traffic analyst.
Clidd fakeclaimed.

Did you look back at Bla talking about traitors? Does that look like a soft/loaf to you?

[Hoctac]

Umlaut's "WIM" today is what changed my mind from going him to Bla instead.

[Hoctac]

@FB

If you think I'm town, how do you feel about just lynching everyone in the neighborhood until town wins?

This is a big uhhhh though

[Hoctac]

Hey, Forebringer. Why do you assume/write off Umlaut as town?

[Hoctac]

Huh