Mini Normal 2139: No Flavor Allowed - Game Over
- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
On their own, no.In post 62, Hoctac wrote:Defensiveness and frustration isn't an alignment-indicative trait.
Scum definitely hate being caught for the wrong reasons, though.- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
That sort of self-centered mindset comes more from scum than town in my experience.In post 68, farside22 wrote:
Town doesn't think a player is scummy for trying to paint them as scum for something they do as town?In post 67, Klick wrote:
On their own, no.In post 62, Hoctac wrote:Defensiveness and frustration isn't an alignment-indicative trait.
Scum definitely hate being caught for the wrong reasons, though.
Since when?
Is being wrong a scumtell?- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
It's not about being reactionary - it's about what Lucky is reacting against.
At this point it has been well-established that clidd's initial claim about Lucky's early play wasn't accurate. Lucky reacted against that.
The question now is, was that reaction from Lucky-town who knows clidd used bad reasoning to come to an incorrect conclusion, or was it from Lucky-scum who knows clidd used bad reasoning to come to acorrectconclusion?
I believe the evidence makes the latter likely. He's going 'what? this looks just like my town game!' That level of awareness of how you're playing like your town game would definitely come from scum. It wouldn't necessarily happen if one were town. Hence, I think leaves Lucky as >rand scum for the time being.- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
Do you think scum are more likely to switch their vote around early than town?In post 89, SirCakez wrote:not crazy about Klick's ISO. three "serious" vote hops already.- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
I'm like 98% sure Hoctac is just Hectic. New obvious alt player, same personality, similar name.In post 94, SirCakez wrote:hoctac related to Hectic?- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
This was the most awkward vote on your wagon imo.
Right now I can see that Umlaut is pressing on something he thinks is actually readable, but at the time it felt like he was derailing what could have been a pretty informative early wagon on you.In post 15, Umlaut wrote:VOTE: LuckyLuciano
I didn't like the way he hopped onto the wagon (though I couldn't really put my finger on why not), and I don't like this last post.In post 19, Umlaut wrote:
Damn you're good, game over folks.In post 16, Hoctac wrote:Umlaut already trying to derail the quickly growing wagon on his scum buddy.
Page 1 solve: Persivul + Umlaut
Weird deflection/downplaying in response to an early accusation - it read as not quite knowing how to handle the situation.In post 20, Umlaut wrote:The three scum are Persy, me, and me again
The three of those all looked pretty weird to me at the time.- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
Ragman Saul Rima wrote:
Why do you have a town lean on SirCakez?In post 150, Klick wrote:At this point I have some form of town lean on ... and SirCakez.
This read as genuine. I feel like scum are more likely to make something up there. He posted a lot of people he's not getting anything from, which reads like a real town mindset. Whereas scum in that position might have trouble posting that, knowing everyone's alignment.In post 99, SirCakez wrote:In post 19, Umlaut wrote:
Damn you're good, game over folks.In post 16, Hoctac wrote:Umlaut already trying to derail the quickly growing wagon on his scum buddy.
Page 1 solve: Persivul + Umlaut
It's page 4 I don't have too much yetIn post 97, farside22 wrote:
How about less vague stuff. Other scum reads? Why multi votes look scummy?In post 88, SirCakez wrote:talk to me farside
Persivul has not posted anything AI yet
Clidd's posts were difficult to read tbh so I need more.
Jury is out on Hoctac
Etc
Only things I have seem that pinged are what I have pointed out on Lucky and Klick
Why are you curious about the SirCakez read specifically?
PEdit: Ah. Nah, votes aren't that scary, especially early into D1.- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
My feelings on Ragman are meh at best and I wanted to see if there was anything behind farside's read there. I don't have a solid place for my vote right now and I'm hoping to fix that.
You could also sell me on Ragman.- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
I'm assuming you and farside both have some reason to find him suspicious, no?In post 177, Persivul wrote:
I don't like this response. I was hoping you'd say it was more about reading farside than rag. ragman has a 4-post ISO. There's no need for someone to piece bits together and sell it.In post 175, Klick wrote:My feelings on Ragman are meh at best and I wanted to see if there was anything behind farside's read there. I don't have a solid place for my vote right now and I'm hoping to fix that.
You could also sell me on Ragman.
I'm leaning town on farside at the moment - she's not a high-priority slot to sort for me.- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
But you said you were reading my ISO, implying you weren't using the context of the game to come to that read.In post 187, SirCakez wrote:
Depends on the player and game stateIn post 147, Klick wrote:
Do you think scum are more likely to switch their vote around early than town?In post 89, SirCakez wrote:not crazy about Klick's ISO. three "serious" vote hops already.
In the context of this game I read Klick's movement as scummy
Hiya Reundo. I like your catchup. I know you said you haven't agreed with me much, but it seems like we basically agree on a few things that I have more conviction on at this point (clidd-town, I'm coming around on Umlaut-town, farside looks good).
If nothing stands out to me by the time I'm finished reading up I'll gladly join the Ragman wagon.- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
This reads genuine. It came without prompting and looks like something valoneast just... thought, instead of crafted. (farside is also one of the more obvious town so far so it has that going for it)In post 283, valoneast wrote:I find farside more and more towny as the game goes on. Decent questions, always asking for an explanation on why a certain decision was made. I guess scum can replicate this as well, but they mix in their opinions and really try to understand others and what they're saying.
Also, I approve of your avatar choice.- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
Try to explain it to me? I do think her tone was decidedly different from the Newbie game we played in from the onset, but didn't really know if that meant much.In post 307, LuckyLuciano wrote:
Pretty sure the Atarashi slot is town.In post 292, SirCakez wrote:
I'm disengaged :/In post 244, farside22 wrote:
Cakez makes more of an effort typically. The lack of follow through and really good reads or free following thoughts are missing from him.In post 238, Umlaut wrote:
Talk to me about this read because I'm not seeing Cakez scum at all. He could certainly be efforting more (hey Cakez, you really need to effort more) but he just seems like low-energy town. His tone is pretty free and his impressions of the game look natural and unforced, and he's transparent about being sort of lost.In post 235, farside22 wrote:I feel like i did when i created a game where everyone had 2 votes that they could use to either vote a player twice or split their votes between 2 scum reads. If i could do that I'd vote for cakez too right now.
IE: this game not the typical town cakez.
Trying to effort more now
brassherald is not improving my read on the Atarashi slot. Hate that entrance.
I like Lucky's recent posts better. I think it's plausible that he just had foot in mouth.
Klick has done nothing to improve my read there so
VOTE: Klick- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
Ah okay you go into it here.In post 318, LuckyLuciano wrote:
You don't know how heavily I was targeted on my old site. I still talk to Atari outside of mafia on a daily basis. He's my DM in D&D. Scum!Atari would see the easy lynch on me and join it to rub it in my face later. Especially because he knows how much I hate getting misrepped. I only see scum!Atari defending me under some crazy pretense that the players in this game, with how poorly they've handled my opening, would then buy an offsite meta driven push against him after I flip green. I also think that scum!Atari prefers town!Lucky dead rather than alive. I see him defending me as having massive opportunity cost from his perspective.In post 312, SirCakez wrote:
?In post 307, LuckyLuciano wrote:Pretty sure the Atarashi slot is town.
I'm not super convinced Atarashi would be that strongly inclined to never defend you in a SvT situation. A tell like that is begging to be broken.- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
It's not a scumread - it's more 'I have zero reason to think Hoctac is town'. Or I guess more accurately, Hoctac is giving bare minimum beyond trolling and is >rand scum simply because he hasn't done anything he isn't likely to do if he rolled red this game. That leaves him on the bottom rung because I can't really say the same about anyone above him.
Except Persivul, I guess. He's probably getting placed a bit higher than he should be because he seems generally reasonable and like a good presence to have in the game if he's town, which I'm fine with for now.- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
If you'd like me to talk with you about your scumread on me, you should say more than vague statements about how my posts seem useless and bad. I dropped the dialogue that I tried to start with you about your read on me because it was met with 'well in context it was scummy' with no further explanation.In post 372, SirCakez wrote:Klick remains the best wagon. Their (semi-useless) pop-in/pop-out while ignoring SRs on them was bad.
Alternatively, you could engage more in detail with some of the things I'm saying, like some others have done.- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
Like I've already said, Hoctac isn't necessarily scumtelling but is simply >rand scum, due to me getting town vibes from everyone above him to some degree. That should put the rest of the places on the lists in perspective.In post 379, SirCakez wrote:In post 211, Klick wrote:{farside22, clidd}
{Umlaut, Reundo, SirCakez, Zulfy}
{Persivul, LuckyLuciano}
{Atarashi Hajimari, Hoctac, valoneast, Ragman Saul Rima}
VOTE: Ragman Saul Rima
Why do you say you have too many townreads when these lists look like too many scumreads?In post 355, Klick wrote:I have too many townreads for the amount of content there's been so far. After sitting on them for a while, I'd probably make a list that looks more like this:
{farside22, valoneast, Reundo}
{SirCakez, LuckyLuciano, Umlaut}
{clidd, Persivul, Zulfy, Atarashi Hajimari}
{Hoctac, Ragman Saul Rima}
You're not cleared, but I do pretty solidly think you're town.In post 384, valoneast wrote:In post 211, Klick wrote:{farside22, clidd}
{Umlaut, Reundo, SirCakez, Zulfy}
{Persivul, LuckyLuciano}
{Atarashi Hajimari, Hoctac, valoneast, Ragman Saul Rima}
VOTE: Ragman Saul Rima
In post 331, Klick wrote:
This reads genuine. It came without prompting and looks like something valoneast just... thought, instead of crafted. (farside is also one of the more obvious town so far so it has that going for it)In post 283, valoneast wrote:I find farside more and more towny as the game goes on. Decent questions, always asking for an explanation on why a certain decision was made. I guess scum can replicate this as well, but they mix in their opinions and really try to understand others and what they're saying.
Also, I approve of your avatar choice.
Btw, just rereading some posts here So just wondering, what made me flip from bottom of your "town-dar" to "clearing" me?
You've quoted the main reason yourself in that second post. In general, you look like you're genuinely trying to solve this game. It doesn't look the same as everyone else's solving, and I think as scum you might consider trying to mirror what others are doing to get townread (and I think Umlaut's big post about you started with scumreading you for a lot of things that you're simply doing as someone not accustomed to the site's meta). I'd be fairly surprised if you were scum at this point.- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
His play has been consistent and strong so far, and earlier on that felt better than what I was getting from most others. I went through my townreads later and sorted which ones I felt good about and which ones felt relatively weak. And like, if I'm wrong about someone I could see it being clidd a lot more easily than most. I'd like to look at clidd's scum game later to see what he's capable of/whether strong early game is typical for him. I see myself getting a better read on him later on.In post 407, Reundo wrote:@Klick I can mostly jive with your reads list but why did clidd drop down in your reads? His posting has been pretty consistent to me so far.- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
Would it help if I added little reference points for what exactly my read on everyone is? That isn't very helpful for me thinking about it that way, but enough people seem confused by my reads that I guess it's necessary.
- TOWN -
{farside22, valoneast, Reundo}
{SirCakez, LuckyLuciano, Umlaut}
{clidd, Persivul, Zulfy, Atarashi Hajimari}
- NEUTRAL -
{Hoctac, Ragman Saul Rima}
- SCUM -- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
I've been fairly open about the fact that my read on HoctacIn post 410, farside22 wrote:Klick: what is your thoughts on hotac and ragman? All i see is list and your reason for your scum read on hotoc read hollow.ishollow. I don't think I can go into much more detail on Hoctac than I already did in 370 (where I explicitly state that Hoctac isn't a scumread). His posts aren't helping me sort him either way.
The biggest reason I joined the Ragman wagon was because I liked my reads on almost everyone who was on it. He asked a lot of questions early on that didn't lead anywhere. I thought his 'it's too early to townread anyone' thing was pretty weird and a convenient take if he's scum. I don't see any reason he couldn't be scum. But I'm not sold he's scum with any sort of conviction.- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
Oh damn, did I just give away the entire scumteam? What a fail, sorry dude.In post 413, brassherald wrote:
This a Scum slip?In post 355, Klick wrote:I have too many townreads for the amount of content there's been so far. After sitting on them for a while, I'd probably make a list that looks more like this:
{farside22, valoneast, Reundo}
{SirCakez, LuckyLuciano, Umlaut}
{clidd, Persivul, Zulfy, Hoctac}
{brassherald, Ragman Saul Rima, Klick}
VOTE: Klick- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
I find reads lists useful. They help me organize my thoughts and present them in an easy-to-process way. Since some players are town and others are scum, it's useful for me to rank or organize my read on players relative to each other. Ask me about any of my reads and I can tell you why they are where they are on the list.
farside, you've said that I have a scumread on Hoctac right under a quote that says I don't have a scumread on Hoctac.
I always find it easier to townhunt than scumhunt. You can read any game I've played in the past year and find that to be a strong component of my play.- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
- Klick
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Klick
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12848
- Joined: September 1, 2012
IMO this is not a good thingIn post 2756, Ircher wrote:Furthermore, towns (and players in general) tend to be pretty bad at setup-speccing, so it isn't unreasonable for most people to nonchalantly assume all scum in a neighborhood isn't possible. - Klick
Copyright © MafiaScum. All rights reserved.
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick
- Klick