Mini Normal 2139: No Flavor Allowed - Game Over


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Post Post #250 (ISO) » Thu May 07, 2020 5:24 am

Post by Umlaut »

In post 244, farside22 wrote:Cakez makes more of an effort typically. The lack of follow through and really good reads or free following thoughts are missing from him.
IE: this game not the typical town cakez.
Okay, and this game is the typical scum Cakez?

I don't have any experience with scum Cakez (and I barely remember my experience with town Cakez) but my general impression is that players who make an effort do so as either alignment. Do you disagree and think it's common for effort to be a tell?

("Scum Cakez" sounds like the worst Little Debbie product ever)
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and the other kind,
’ and those who
don’t
say. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs
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Post Post #251 (ISO) » Thu May 07, 2020 5:26 am

Post by Ircher »

Day 1 VC #8

Umlaut (1): valoneast ()
clidd (1): LuckyLuciano ()
Hoctac (0):
Persivul (0):
Ragman Saul Rima (5) (L-2): farside22 (), Persivul (), Reundo (), Klick (), clidd ()

valoneast (0):
brassherald (0):
LuckyLuciano (5) (L-2): Zulfy (), SirCakez (), Umlaut (), Ragman Saul Rima (), brassherald ()

farside22 (0):
Klick (1): Hoctac ()
SirCakez (0):
Not Voting (0):

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch a player.

This phase will end on May 19, 2020 1:00 PM EDT (GMT-4:00) or in (expired on 2020-05-19 13:00:00).

Moderator Notes1. If you have regular weekend V/LA, you must either notify me each time or set V/LA tags each time.
2. This game will use a combination of manual and automated votecounts. (The automated ones are made using MathBlade's Vote Scrubber.) I will mainly start by posting an automated votecount and then edit in a manual one later. This allows me to spot errors in the automated votecount as well as build the voting history for the game.
3.
Please note the prod timers. You will be prodded after 32 hours on Tuesday-Friday.

4. brassherald replaces Atarashi Hajimari.
5. Prodded Zulfy (1d 16h). He has (expired on 2020-05-08 19:00:00) to respond.
Last edited by Ircher on Thu May 07, 2020 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #252 (ISO) » Thu May 07, 2020 5:29 am

Post by farside22 »

In post 250, Umlaut wrote:
In post 244, farside22 wrote:Cakez makes more of an effort typically. The lack of follow through and really good reads or free following thoughts are missing from him.
IE: this game not the typical town cakez.
Okay, and this game is the typical scum Cakez?

I don't have any experience with scum Cakez (and I barely remember my experience with town Cakez) but my general impression is that players who make an effort do so as either alignment. Do you disagree and think it's common for effort to be a tell?

("Scum Cakez" sounds like the worst Little Debbie product ever)
Idk scum cakez. It's been some time since I played with cakez where he waas scum.
I just see him not really scum hunting. Yes I get he admitted it, but he can't lurk and say nothing.
He didn't even have a set of opinions about anyone but klick. Thats pretty bland at this stage.
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
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Post Post #253 (ISO) » Thu May 07, 2020 5:34 am

Post by brassherald »

In post 250, Umlaut wrote:("Scum Cakez" sounds like the worst Little Debbie product ever)
Luciano is probably enjoying the Scum Cakez with his XTreme Kough-e.
I've only made one good post, and don't you dare accuse me of doing it again.
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Post Post #254 (ISO) » Thu May 07, 2020 5:35 am

Post by Ragman Saul Rima »

In post 227, Reundo wrote:
In post 221, Ragman Saul Rima wrote:
clidd wrote: Note²: Ragman, describe your reads on the playerlist.
It's too early for me to townread anyone atm, I don't know anybody's metagames.

Scumread: Klick, Luciano
Why is it too early for you to town read people but not to scum-read them? By your logic, how would you know that say Luciano copying his town game wouldn't be something he usually does as town if you don't know his metagame?
I'm okay with Luciano copying his town game regardless of whether it's his metagame or not. I found #48 scummy.
A good scum player can pass off as town, so that makes any of my townreads this early meaningless. If I knew about how people would respond as town in other matches, I can back my townreads with better reason. Even without knowledge of anyone's metagames, it is possible to find AI posts, so scumreading can be backed with more reason early on.
clidd wrote:Ragman, I need you to describe your impressions on players in addition to your scumreads. I can't Infer anything from your post .
zulfy's and clidds' openings seem to me like genuine curiosity to find scum. I find Hoctac's ISO pro town. Persivul, farside and sircakez look neutral to me.
people die if they are killed
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Post Post #255 (ISO) » Thu May 07, 2020 5:45 am

Post by brassherald »

In post 254, Ragman Saul Rima wrote:
In post 227, Reundo wrote:
In post 221, Ragman Saul Rima wrote:
clidd wrote: Note²: Ragman, describe your reads on the playerlist.
It's too early for me to townread anyone atm, I don't know anybody's metagames.

Scumread: Klick, Luciano
Why is it too early for you to town read people but not to scum-read them? By your logic, how would you know that say Luciano copying his town game wouldn't be something he usually does as town if you don't know his metagame?
I'm okay with Luciano copying his town game regardless of whether it's his metagame or not. I found #48 scummy.
A good scum player can pass off as town, so that makes any of my townreads this early meaningless. If I knew about how people would respond as town in other matches, I can back my townreads with better reason. Even without knowledge of anyone's metagames, it is possible to find AI posts, so scumreading can be backed with more reason early on.
clidd wrote:Ragman, I need you to describe your impressions on players in addition to your scumreads. I can't Infer anything from your post .
zulfy's and clidds' openings seem to me like genuine curiosity to find scum. I find Hoctac's ISO pro town. Persivul, farside and sircakez look neutral to me.
UNVOTE:

I don't like being on this wagon anymore.
I've only made one good post, and don't you dare accuse me of doing it again.
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Post Post #256 (ISO) » Thu May 07, 2020 6:07 am

Post by clidd »

In post 247, brassherald wrote:
In post 246, clidd wrote:Hum, eh.. Are you ok with a BoP on your slot ?
Are you saying I'm good and if I don't find the scum, I must be scum?

If so, absolutely! I'm a God who's plan has already started... Just waiting for those hands to raise...
I had fun watching you in our past game because of the tone of your playstyle, but I think I'm going to interact more seriously with you here until I'm more sure of your alignment.
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Post Post #257 (ISO) » Thu May 07, 2020 6:08 am

Post by brassherald »

Sounds good!
I've only made one good post, and don't you dare accuse me of doing it again.
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Post Post #258 (ISO) » Thu May 07, 2020 6:11 am

Post by clidd »

The *BoP* is basically a
"you have space to play, so I hope to count on your help"
.
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Post Post #259 (ISO) » Thu May 07, 2020 6:16 am

Post by LuckyLuciano »

In post 233, Umlaut wrote:
In post 166, LuckyLuciano wrote:I'm making some fresh coffee. I'll catch up after.
Are you done making that coffee yet?
It was a really big pot of coffee...

I actually just realized that it was best if I took a day off from mafia as a whole. I'm partway through a big catch-up post now, I just saw this and figured I'd let you guys know I'm still around.
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Post Post #260 (ISO) » Thu May 07, 2020 6:20 am

Post by clidd »

I'll take a better look at post when I arrive at home. (2~3 hours)

Pedit: I already imagine what your post will be like.
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Post Post #261 (ISO) » Thu May 07, 2020 6:53 am

Post by Hoctac »

If it's a wall, would you mind splitting it up into rows of bricks please?
not yet sentient
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Post Post #262 (ISO) » Thu May 07, 2020 6:55 am

Post by brassherald »

In post 261, Hoctac wrote:If it's a wall, would you mind splitting it up into rows of bricks please?
How do you know it's going to be a brick wall. Walls can also be made of wood.
I've only made one good post, and don't you dare accuse me of doing it again.
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Post Post #263 (ISO) » Thu May 07, 2020 7:02 am

Post by LuckyLuciano »

Spoiler: Lucky-Clidd-Zulfy Interaction
In post 30, clidd wrote:
In post 14, LuckyLuciano wrote:This is the second opportunity since I've joined the site for a D1 lynch. Make it happen people! (I will not be posting for the rest of page one, in order to support the cause.)
In post 26, LuckyLuciano wrote:Yet another page 1 hammer opportunity wasted.
This is strange coming from you, Luciano. In the games in which we participated together, your instance at the beginning of D1 was always more logical and pragmatic. This sudden change with comic content is not something that the profile of your playstyle suggests, at least as far as I can see.

VOTE: LuckyLuciano
This immediately threw me off because my first few posts were all a deliberate attempt to replicate one of my town openings. As I've mentioned before, I will explain
why
I chose this approach to the game when it becomes relevant. Just note for now that I wasn't looking to play
similar
to that game in my opening, but intentionally wanted to
replicate it post-by-post
. That's about as much of an explanation of my actions as is necessary at this point. Anywho, Clidd's reaction to my opening wasn't one that I expected from him, precisely because he has seen me do the exact things he's questioning. It's immediately obvious that he's faking an attack on me and I find that suspect, hence,

In post 32, LuckyLuciano wrote:That's funny considering you were in Newbie 1995 and yet you noted my "comedic content" in RVS.

UNVOTE: Persi. VOTE: Clidd.
This post from Clidd indicated to me, at first, that I haven't reacted in a way that I normally would as town,
In post 33, clidd wrote:I'm waiting for your towntell.
Upon rereading, I can see it also could be interpreted to mean that he's performing a reaction test and hasn't gotten sufficient data from my response. I'm not sure how I feel about this interpretation, however, as I don't remember Clidd being a reaction-test sort of player in my previous encounters with him. I think my initial interpretation of his post goes more in line with his next post,
In post 35, clidd wrote:Another observation: the purpose of your post did not seem to clarify a misunderstanding, but to reverse the positions to make an attack. This is a classic scum mentality and you probably know that.
The presumption that I'm coming from a scum mindset doesn't cohere to the neutral starting point of a reaction test performed in good faith. It's also a misrep of what I did, hence my hyperbolic response,
In post 36, LuckyLuciano wrote:I have literally mirrored my opening to a game we both played in, where I was town, nearly post-by-post. You are scumreading me for doing literally the same thing you have seen me do before, as town. I was going to label this move, "calling out a player making up a reason to attack me that they know to be false". I supposed I will take you input into consideration, as "Advanced OMGUS" rolls off the tongue slightly better.
I wasn't attacking Clidd for attacking me. I was attacking Clidd for attacking me on pretenses he knows to be false.

Zulfy comes in at this point and takes the worst stance possible, in that it misses every important nuance of my interaction with Clidd,
In post 37, Zulfy wrote:You're copying your town game so scum-reading you is scum?
This three-way interaction ends with me taking a break from the game, Zulfy disappearing after illustrating that all he really cared about was irritating me, and Clidd retracting and claiming he was intentionally misrepping me to analyze my reaction. This is pretty much where I'm at and everything else is going to be me catching up.


Spoiler: Klick's #59
In post 59, Klick wrote:Zulfy is making sense.
VOTE: LuckyLuciano

Clidd's content is good so far, leaning town there.
Initially, I agreed with some of the other posts that this appears opportunistic / scummy,
In post 65, farside22 wrote:scum reads on valoneast for the trying to play newb card, klick following zulfy reads as scum too.
I don't know whether to take hotoc seriously or not.

I'm undecided about clidd

vote: klick
In post 79, Atarashi Hajimari wrote:Coming from the perspective of knowing Lucky for years outside of Mafia, his frustration reads to me as null-leaning town. He doesn't reach to insulting people unless theres something outside of the game that's bothering him.

Klick's push seems pretty opportunistic though.

VOTE: klick
In post 161, Persivul wrote:
In post 59, Klick wrote:Zulfy is making sense.
VOTE: LuckyLuciano

Clidd's content is good so far, leaning town there.
Yucky post.
However, I think that Klick's post makes a lost more sense when put into context through some of his later posts. In particular,
In post 67, Klick wrote:
In post 62, Hoctac wrote:Defensiveness and frustration isn't an alignment-indicative trait.
On their own, no.
Scum definitely hate being caught for the wrong reasons, though.
In post 73, Klick wrote:It's not about being reactionary - it's about what Lucky is reacting against.

At this point it has been well-established that clidd's initial claim about Lucky's early play wasn't accurate. Lucky reacted against that.
The question now is, was that reaction from Lucky-town who knows clidd used bad reasoning to come to an incorrect conclusion, or was it from Lucky-scum who knows clidd used bad reasoning to come to a
correct
conclusion?
I believe the evidence makes the latter likely. He's going 'what? this looks just like my town game!' That level of awareness of how you're playing like your town game would definitely come from scum. It wouldn't necessarily happen if one were town. Hence, I think leaves Lucky as >rand scum for the time being.
I think that the conclusions Klick arrives at are reasonable when I take into account that Klick's starting point is wrong. Most importantly, (1) I get defensive whenever I think a push against me is utter bullshit, as both alignments. (2) He's not wrong in that the level of awareness I've shown of my town game would be present if I'm scum. What he's missing is that there's town motive for that level of awareness, and I think that deliberately copying my own game post-by-post should show that I'm not looking to mimic a town mindset, but that there's something intentional going on behind the scenes. Klick's only experience with me was a brief replacing in at the end of D1 of one of my first game's onsite, and he quickly died N1. I'm not sure that Klick is aware that I have played mafia for nearly a decade offsite and how intentional most of what I do is. I understand how he reaches his conclusions not knowing that.

I think the way Klick left my wagon supports the idea that he knows he is making a lot of assumptions about my play, and that they could be wrong,
In post 81, Klick wrote:'Opportunistic' is a fun buzzword, especially early-game. I appreciate the insight on Lucky, though.
VOTE: Umlaut
I also really like that Umlaut essentially sees Klick's post the same way that I did, especially with how the path of least resistance is to paint Klick as scummy for their entrance to my wagon. Keep in mind that at the time of the following post, Cakez is trying to get Farside to help sort Klick,
In post 92, Umlaut wrote:Er, was going to say: I'm not sure I buy this case but I buy it as coming from town.
The problem I'm having is trying to cohere with his later scumreads on me. So he doesn't buy Klick's case, but believes I'm scum for different reasons, which he doesn't think are worth introducing to the discussion (, , ,


Spoiler: SirCakez' #82
In post 82, SirCakez wrote:VOTE: lucky
Hate his page 2

Clidd is trying way too hard
I'm starting a spoiler here because I feel that people should be suspicious of this post for the same reason they were suspicious of Klick's.

I don't like Clidd's response,
In post 84, clidd wrote:Actually, I haven't even come close to trying yet lol.
It feels to me like Clidd tried really hard to force a read through his reaction test, and then backed off when it failed. I agree with Cakez here and don't like (1) Clidd acting like he wasn't tryharding, and (2) Clidd saying "lol" which is immensely out of character.
In post 85, farside22 wrote:
In post 82, SirCakez wrote:VOTE: lucky
Hate his page 2

Clidd is trying way too hard
VOTE: cakez
I like this post, as it shows consistency with how Farside reacted to Klick doing the same thing earlier that Cakez is here.


Spoiler: We're back to talking about my opening
In post 127, Ragman Saul Rima wrote:I don't know Luciano's metagame, so I'm not convinced by clidd's argument.
I don't have a problem with #36, but #48 seems off.

Luciano, you are copying a comical approach to RVS for a reason that will be revealed later, and will show clear town motivation?
The fact that you were willingly repeating town posts and then covering up by saying you have reasons which will later be revealed looks like scumtell to me.

Maybe I'll change my mind when I see your reasons, but for now I'm voting for you. Do tell me if I misunderstood your posts.

VOTE: LuckyLuciano
This is really off-base with what I'm doing. It's not that I was
willingly
copying my town game. It's that I was
deliberately
and
obviously
copying my town game. I have said that there are town-motivated reasons to do this. You can take my word for it and keep it in mind later in the game when it's more relevant for me to explain myself, or you can push for my reasoning immediately. I think that town is more willing to take people at their word when they bind themselves to doing something like I have, whereas scum is more likely to feel uncomfortable not knowing what town is planning and that discomfort, in my experience, tends to materialize in information-driven pushes.


Spoiler: Persivul's #144
In post 144, Persivul wrote:
In post 14, LuckyLuciano wrote:This is the second opportunity since I've joined the site for a D1 lynch. Make it happen people! (I will not be posting for the rest of page one, in order to support the cause.)
Why do you want a page 1 lynch?
Why does anyone ever want a day one lynch? For the memes. As you have a long history of hating fake claims, I have a long history of not giving a flying fuck about day 1. On my old site I played for an extended period of time without even opening my role pm until N1.


Spoiler: Klick's 149
In post 149, Klick wrote:Lucky, is it normal for Atarashi to take people messing around at face value like they are here?
I think it's normal for him, as town, to try to move the game forward into a more serious state where we can properly solve.


Spoiler: Persivul
In post 153, Persivul wrote:
In post 35, clidd wrote:Another observation: the purpose of your post did not seem to clarify a misunderstanding, but to reverse the positions to make an attack. This is a classic scum mentality and you probably know that.
Didn't clarify a misunderstanding? He linked to a game you were both in, in which he was goofing around early, thus refuting your point. He ALSO made an attack, but there's nothing wrong with attacking someone who just made a false charge.

Not liking clidd.
Accurate.
In post 154, Persivul wrote:
In post 36, LuckyLuciano wrote:I have literally mirrored my opening to a game we both played in, where I was town, nearly post-by-post. You are scumreading me for doing literally the same thing you have seen me do before, as town. I was going to label this move, "calling out a player making up a reason to attack me that they know to be false". I supposed I will take you input into consideration, as "Advanced OMGUS" rolls off the tongue slightly better.
In post 37, Zulfy wrote:You're copying your town game so scum-reading you is scum?
That's a misrep. Mirrored doesn't necessarily imply conscious intent.
In post 155, Persivul wrote:
In post 41, Zulfy wrote:Post 36 has you frustrated that copying your town game still has someone see you as scummy. What that Town Game is doesn't matter to me. Post 36 does, though.
Doubling down on the misrep.
In post 159, Persivul wrote:
In post 39, LuckyLuciano wrote:That's unequivocally the worst interpretation of my interaction with Clidd possible. Scum-reading me for being comic in my opening, when he's seen me be comic in my opening before, is scummy.
In post 48, LuckyLuciano wrote:@Clidd, Why did you unvote me?

@Zulfy, it's not frustration.
I copied my town game for a reason.
That reason will be revealed later in the game. At that point you will see clear town motivation for it. If you want to argue that it's scum motivated at that point, go for it. The only thing I'm frustrated about is your clear inability to think critically.
Forget the last couple of posts, apparently zulfy's interpretation was right.

Lucky, if you're town, why did you need to copy your town game for a reason? Wouldn't your normal play necessarily be your town game?
So first, relating the third post to the first two: I agree with the feeling on Zulfy, but disagree with the finer mechanics of what Persivul is saying. I
did
consciously intend to copy
a specific
town game. Persi realizes that Zulfy was right on this. That's not the misrep that Zulfy is making though. The misrep is that I'm claiming being scum-read for copying my town game is scummy. What I argued is that scum-reading me for pretenses that Clidd knows to be false is scummy.

As for the third post, yes, my normal play would necessarily be my town play. There's a benefit, however, to copying
that specific instance
of my town play. It'll make more sense later. Can we all just accept that, hold me to it, and move on?


Spoiler: Lucky's Opening: The Trilogy
In post 169, farside22 wrote:
In post 127, Ragman Saul Rima wrote:I don't know Luciano's metagame, so I'm not convinced by clidd's argument.
I don't have a problem with #36, but #48 seems off.

Luciano, you are copying a comical approach to RVS for a reason that will be revealed later, and will show clear town motivation?
The fact that you were willingly repeating town posts and then covering up by saying you have reasons which will later be revealed looks like scumtell to me.

Maybe I'll change my mind when I see your reasons, but for now I'm voting for you. Do tell me if I misunderstood your posts.

VOTE: LuckyLuciano
In post 81, Klick wrote:'Opportunistic' is a fun buzzword, especially early-game. I appreciate the insight on Lucky, though.
VOTE: Umlaut
Klick, I may have missed your reason to vote Umlaut. Can you explain why?
I'm going to call this scum
Farside, are you town? I really want you to be town.
In post 184, farside22 wrote:This post was what pinged my vote. The long and the short is that the post read wishy washy.
There is no stance on it as a reason to vote Luciano and frankly it reads awkward as hell given the game state.
I usually see that from awkward scum.
Yup, either Farside is town or I think like mafia.


Spoiler: valoneast
In post 174, valoneast wrote:Heard my name.

You guys are absolutely going at breakneck speeds here. I know the newb card will get me more flak, but I've been reading every post so far, trying to follow along. I mean, about 50% of the argument is linked to your prior game(s), which once again, I CAN'T CONTRIBUTE IN.

Not sure how you guys play your games, but when I've got something to contribute. I will.
Once again? Where did you say this the first time, in your mafia PT? Something about active lurking screams scum to me.
In post 178, valoneast wrote:Must've missed the link then. But kudos for the heads up.

Just spitballing:

4. Hoctac - I absolutely hate this personality, claiming random shit. Making light of every situation. Generally, just shit disturbing the entire game.
6. Persivul - +1 for being friendly and slightly helpful? Though I'm not sure if this is out of frustration for my lack of game or not.
10. LuckyLuciano - Less scummy the more the game goes on. We'll see.
11. farside22 - One massive post, painting a picture of town to me, but still too early to tell.
12. Klick - Actually, the biggest scumread in my books. He's been bouncing around votes all day here. Seeing what sticks. Just bounces around in what I perceive as a random manner.
13. SirCakez - comes in and out of the conversation a couple of times, never posting anything relevant to the conversation.
How am I less scummy the more the game goes on if I literally stopped playing for two days? I also don't like the "I don't really know what to say in order to townread the guy calling me out, so I'll just give him a facebook like" townread on Persi.


Spoiler: Reundo
In post 190, Reundo wrote:Aight, I'm here now. My thoughts on the game so far:

Clidd to me reads pretty obvious town. I didn't really jive with his early accusation of Lucky since it seemed pretty far-fetched, but it did spark a lot of conversation and he didn't let it drag on longer than he needed to, plus he seems thoroughly engaged with the game and has pretty solid reads so far. Umlaut similarly seems like he's actively game-solving with his questioning and commentary here and there, plus I thought his flip-flopping on Hoctac was pretty natural, although he's not as strong as a town-read. Klick I haven't agreed with a lot of his assessments, particularly his stance on Lucky and early SRing of Umlaut, but I do find it easy to see where he's coming from when he lays out his reasoning and reads a lot like an open book. I wasn't a huge fan of Pers early game but I think his catch-up looked towny albeit excessive, and I've agreed with most of farside's takes so far. valoneast is coming off more like newb!town than newb!scum to me so far, and I think his "spitballing" read pretty genuine, although it's not a strong TR atm. Hoctac's tone is pretty hard to read and I'm not quite sure when he's serious and when he's joking, I'm leaning towards him being lynchbaity town for the moment but I'm not putting much stock in that either.

I had early town pings from Zulfy through his interactions through Lucky/clidd thought looking back it wasn't as meaningful as I'd thought and I'd need more from him before I make up my mind. I thought from Cakez was kind of towny but otherwise I don't have a strong impression of him yet. Lucky's aggression to me did feel pretty towny at first and looked more like it came from town who was pissed at being misrepresented, but the first sentence of does ping me the wrong way. Most of the towny things I saw from Atarashi was their prodding of Hoctac, although I'm not putting a lot of stock in that rn because he's easy to criticize. Their content is OK but seems pretty fakeable by scum. I'm finding Ragman's content pretty underwhelming, and I'm not a huge fan of him prodding other's for their reads whilst not really giving out any himself. I thought felt almost like a repeat of (in terms of "I can't read y'all b/c you keep referring to other games", which I don't think is true anyways), and I'm not getting great vibes off of that either. I'm fine voting him for the moment.

VOTE: Ragman Saul Rima
I like this opening, especially calling out that Zulfy's interactions with me and Clidd were largely meaningless and only appear to look valuable. I feel the same way and am glad somebody called it out.
In post 201, Reundo wrote:
In post 198, valoneast wrote:
In post 190, Reundo wrote:Lucky's aggression to me did feel pretty towny at first and looked more like it came from town who was pissed at being misrepresented, but the first sentence of does ping me the wrong way.

Just wondering why? That first sentence just seems like he's trying to use their logic and he's exasperated that people can't follow it.
Admitting to copying his past town game down to the exact post is pretty strange. The only reason it doesn't bother me more is because he claimed he'd reveal the town motivation for that later on, so I'm not too concerned about it atm.
Fucking finally.
In post 227, Reundo wrote:
In post 221, Ragman Saul Rima wrote:
clidd wrote: Note²: Ragman, describe your reads on the playerlist.
It's too early for me to townread anyone atm, I don't know anybody's metagames.

Scumread: Klick, Luciano
Why is it too early for you to town read people but not to scum-read them?
By your logic, how would you know that say Luciano copying his town game wouldn't be something he usually does as town if you don't know his metagame?


Also, is there more to your Klick SR than him trying to dissuade SirCakez from voting him (ie how are you viewing his other posts)?
As quoted this, I was thinking it was a really good point. As I bolded it I kinda realized that it's sadly likely that a player concludes that copying town meta is scummy and is simultaneously too lazy to check if this is a consistent theme in my play. In other words, for me to find this in particular as a reason to scumread Ragman, I would expect Ragman to exhibit far more effort than he has so far. Do note, I don't think Reundo is scumreading Ragman in his attempt to seek clarification, and I like that from Reundo. It looks like he's sorting before making reads.


Spoiler: Page 11
In post 254, Ragman Saul Rima wrote:
In post 227, Reundo wrote:
In post 221, Ragman Saul Rima wrote:
clidd wrote: Note²: Ragman, describe your reads on the playerlist.
It's too early for me to townread anyone atm, I don't know anybody's metagames.

Scumread: Klick, Luciano
Why is it too early for you to town read people but not to scum-read them? By your logic, how would you know that say Luciano copying his town game wouldn't be something he usually does as town if you don't know his metagame?
I'm okay with Luciano copying his town game regardless of whether it's his metagame or not. I found #48 scummy.
A good scum player can pass off as town, so that makes any of my townreads this early meaningless. If I knew about how people would respond as town in other matches, I can back my townreads with better reason. Even without knowledge of anyone's metagames, it is possible to find AI posts, so scumreading can be backed with more reason early on.
clidd wrote:Ragman, I need you to describe your impressions on players in addition to your scumreads. I can't Infer anything from your post .
zulfy's and clidds' openings seem to me like genuine curiosity to find scum. I find Hoctac's ISO pro town. Persivul, farside and sircakez look neutral to me.
This feels odd to me. If good scum can look town, and therefore your townreads are useless, how are your scumreads valuable? In other words, if scum looks town, and town looks town, then how do you even have scumreads?

Also, I expected far more content when I made this spoiler so it's changing to "Miscellaneous" so that I have a place to put the following post that I've been saving,
In post 66, clidd wrote:Evidently, I am speculating according to my personal interpretation of him, so it is very likely that you will disagree with me. But I don't think it's so healthy to press his slot right now, because I feel it will be more beneficial if he has space to work with us in building reads, at least until we can evaluate him better, assuming he will live the transition from D1~D2 .
@Clidd, why are you assuming that I will die N1?


I'm most confident on Ragman/Clidd right now. I need to check the votecount real quick.
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Post Post #264 (ISO) » Thu May 07, 2020 7:06 am

Post by LuckyLuciano »

I'm going to keep my vote where it's at for now, but I support the Ragman wagon.
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Post Post #265 (ISO) » Thu May 07, 2020 7:07 am

Post by LuckyLuciano »

On that note, I'm going to go make some more coffee.
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Post Post #266 (ISO) » Thu May 07, 2020 7:08 am

Post by brassherald »

In post 265, LuckyLuciano wrote:On that note, I'm going to go make some more coffee.
See you Saturday.
I've only made one good post, and don't you dare accuse me of doing it again.
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Post Post #267 (ISO) » Thu May 07, 2020 7:10 am

Post by brassherald »

In post 264, LuckyLuciano wrote:I'm going to keep my vote where it's at for now, but I support the Ragman wagon.
Don't like this, either.
I've only made one good post, and don't you dare accuse me of doing it again.
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Post Post #268 (ISO) » Thu May 07, 2020 7:28 am

Post by LuckyLuciano »

I don't like your lack of content, but here we are.
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Post Post #269 (ISO) » Thu May 07, 2020 7:34 am

Post by brassherald »

In post 268, LuckyLuciano wrote:I don't like your lack of content, but here we are.
I've been in this game for like 3 hours.
I've only made one good post, and don't you dare accuse me of doing it again.
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Post Post #270 (ISO) » Thu May 07, 2020 7:40 am

Post by LuckyLuciano »

Okay? Have you started reading what occured
before
you replaced in? If so, what are your thoughts? If not, how about you go do that?
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Post Post #271 (ISO) » Thu May 07, 2020 7:55 am

Post by brassherald »

I read them.

My thoughts are as follows:
1. they were boring.
2. I replaced an anime.
3. Read lists still suck
4. I need to observe things in real time to solidify reads.
5. Read lists suck
6. Emma Stone's pretty hot.
7. Clidd seems okay here.
8. Is that how you spell Umlaut, for real?
9. He's pretty innocuous
10. Have I played with him before?
11. Who knows?
12. One guy randomly gave some BS excuse and then didn't post for a day
13. the guy in front of me on that wagon is kind of scummy, do I want to be on this smelly wagon.
14. Is there a movie with Emma Stone that I could watch during work?

And now we're here.
I've only made one good post, and don't you dare accuse me of doing it again.
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Post Post #272 (ISO) » Thu May 07, 2020 8:45 am

Post by Zulfy »

I'm here HELL. Time just melts away in this quarantine, folks.
no investigation no right to speak
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Post Post #273 (ISO) » Thu May 07, 2020 8:47 am

Post by valoneast »

In post 263, LuckyLuciano wrote:Once again? Where did you say this the first time, in your mafia PT? Something about active lurking screams scum to me.

In post 178, valoneast wrote:
Must've missed the link then. But kudos for the heads up.

Just spitballing:

4. Hoctac - I absolutely hate this personality, claiming random shit. Making light of every situation. Generally, just shit disturbing the entire game.
6. Persivul - +1 for being friendly and slightly helpful? Though I'm not sure if this is out of frustration for my lack of game or not.
10. LuckyLuciano - Less scummy the more the game goes on. We'll see.
11. farside22 - One massive post, painting a picture of town to me, but still too early to tell.
12. Klick - Actually, the biggest scumread in my books. He's been bouncing around votes all day here. Seeing what sticks. Just bounces around in what I perceive as a random manner.
13. SirCakez - comes in and out of the conversation a couple of times, never posting anything relevant to the conversation.

I remember playing here around 7/8 years ago, but the terminolgies and concepts have all left me so most of the time, your posts don't actually make sense. So I've been trying to follow along using the wiki and such

How am I less scummy the more the game goes on if I literally stopped playing for two days? I also don't like the "I don't really know what to say in order to townread the guy calling me out, so I'll just give him a facebook like" townread on Persi.
Im not really sure on the theory of mafia, but a quick D1 lynch isn't really town beneficial. I assume that you want to read people, see how wagon forms and such. You mentioned that you wanted a quick D1 lynch on post #14 and #26, so that causes for concern.

As the game's rolled on, it just sounds more and more like you took a shot in #36, where you mentioned that you've copied your town game, asking for an explanation how someone's thought process led you to believe that you were scum like. However this completely backfire as that argument itself made it scumesque. At this point I had a bit of scumread on you.

However, as I thought about it more and more, I realized that you were merely frustrated, and commenting on someone's argument of your "ploy" is actually quite logical, maybe executed poorly.
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Post Post #274 (ISO) » Thu May 07, 2020 8:48 am

Post by valoneast »

Oh shoot, I don't think I'm doing much with this anyways UNVOTE:
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