[Setup] 9 and 2 [Edited]

[Blair]

Quick, few people understand the MU meta and where it comes from better than I do, and 90% of the reason setup balance is different there boils down to shorter phases and plurality lynches, not some vast skill-gap between MU and MS.

[Blair]

Whatever evidence you're using to support that statement can just easily support "Scum are worse there. Fact."

[Blair]

(MU players do not come to MS and outperform MS players, nor does the inverse occur on MU)

[Blair]

If it isn't clear enough, I disagree with your claim that the skill disparity between the two sites is a "fact" and look forward to hearing what your sample size and conclusive evidence is to support this.

The

perception

of MU players for the past couple of years has largely been that MS has strong scum and MU has strong town. It's impossible to gather conclusive data to support this conclusion, however, because even identical setups are run differently on the two sites - MU considers plurality lynches and shorter phases to be standard, and MS considers majority lynches and longer phases standard.

Phase length and plurality/majority lynches are major factors that influence game balance - that's why setups that produce balanced win rates on one sites often have to be tweaked to produce the same on the other. Not a "factual" skill disparity.

[Blair]

crossgame ms vs mu when

We ran a series alternating between the two sites shortly after launching MU.

The results did not support Quick's conclusion, but I'm sure he's basing his opinion off of more recent experiences.

[Blair]

"Town win rates" is your answer? To that post? The one where I explained why they are too different to be compatible?

[Blair]

Ok, so more recent than I was referring to.

[Blair]

"Cherry Pepsi outsells Original Pepsi, while Original Coca-Cola outsells Cherry Coca-Cola. Therefore, Cherry Pepsi is better than Cherry Coca-Cola."

[Blair]

"Cherry Pepsi outsells Original Pepsi, while Original Coca-Cola outsells Cherry Coca-Cola. Therefore, Cherry Pepsi is better than Cherry Coca-Cola."

That looks illogical to me...

Very good, Quick!

Now substitute:

Cherry > Town
Original > Scum
Pepsi > on MU
Coca-Cola > on MS
Outsells > Outperforms

[Blair]

I humbly accept your surrender.

[Blair]

Or you could try and see what I was trying to get at with Ircher for what it is. Your choice!

"Town win rate is slightly higher under MU rulesets" would have been fine. That's measurable.

That isn't what you said, though, and when it was clear that I was responding to what you actually said, rather than the above, you could have corrected yourself. Instead you doubled down and suggested that the town win rates were not what you meant, but instead were actually evidence for what you said.

Otherwise identical setups become more townsided when you run them with 48 hour day phases and plurality lynches. If that was your point, then I agree, and we're done here.

If that wasn't your point, then everything else I said earlier still applies.

[Blair]

Hi, Thingy!

Now I have to do some digging, because it's going to drive me crazy trying to figure out what series I was referring to.

[Blair]

Hi, Thingy!

Now I have to do some digging, because it's going to drive me crazy trying to figure out what series I was referring to.

There was like a Hydra event where I think maybe a couple of people from here might've joined up and played in that?

There is a high likelihood that I am thinking of that.

If I participated in a hydra on MU, it will have likely been with Phoenicks.

(This is an alt, don't you dare expose me)

[Blair]

Does no one else enjoy Mountainous?

[Blair]

Yeah, I almost wonder if the name "Mountainous" is a self-fulfilling prophecy (climbing mountains is very hard, reportedly).

Perhaps a less intimidating topographical name would yield more optimistic town win-rates? I suggest "Featureless Plain."