Open 777: Switch (Town Wins)

[Black Ranger]

Sup

UNVOTE:

[Black Ranger]

gg, we lost.

If you’re Town, then keep your chin up!

However, if you are scum then feel free to wallow in the gutter of despair,

because I’m coming for you!

Can this slot stay in the game because it's hella self resolving lmao

[Black Ranger]

Raya what is your experience with Elmo and how do you feel about 13?

[Black Ranger]

gg, we lost.

If you’re Town, then keep your chin up!

However, if you are scum then feel free to wallow in the gutter of despair,

because I’m coming for you!

why is tanner adressed with a "hang in there bud" & i'm met with a vote for saying the same exact thing basically

do i hear PARTNERS¡

Another reason why I wish the slot was still in the game

[Black Ranger]

I forgot to close the window, sorry.

Do you agree Math is basically caught scum already?

Excuse me what?

Y'all got any of those opinions on this interaction?

[Black Ranger]

VOTE: tanner

NDMath opinions on this vote

[Black Ranger]

Tanner townread is gut/tone/I feel like it
no other way to explain it tbh

Hmmm

[Black Ranger]

1.

Why does town!Elmo -> scum!Solon, because Solon voted her?

2.

Even though you yourself have no reason to assume she's Town?

3.

Why would stating that always have scum motivation?

4.

Why so worried about appearances?

1. I sure hope you don't actually think that that's my reason. When I assume Elmo is town the push in 22 looks absurd and "manipulate the masses" is misrepping the situation greatly.
2. I said that based off the premise of Elmo being town, I don't understand your question here?
3. Declaring a T/S interaction as scum on two townies means you can hang either then try to get the other the next day.
4. I basically always am. I get mishung quite a bit and am still trying to fix that.[/quote]

Felt like calling something t/s on page 1 is more provocative than something concrete but mad respect for actually explaining it instead of giving tanner the finger (which is what i would have done)

[Black Ranger]

1.

Why does town!Elmo -> scum!Solon, because Solon voted her?

2.

Even though you yourself have no reason to assume she's Town?

3.

Why would stating that always have scum motivation?

4.

Why so worried about appearances?
1. I sure hope you don't actually think that that's my reason. When I assume Elmo is town the push in 22 looks absurd and "manipulate the masses" is misrepping the situation greatly.
2. I said that based off the premise of Elmo being town, I don't understand your question here?
3. Declaring a T/S interaction as scum on two townies means you can hang either then try to get the other the next day.
4. I basically always am. I get mishung quite a bit and am still trying to fix that.

Felt like calling something t/s on page 1 is more provocative than something concrete but mad respect for actually explaining it instead of giving tanner the finger (which is what i would have done)

fixed ebwop

[Black Ranger]

On a more serious note, so you're saying that you had no idea about the setup?

I skimmed it, but I was really just desperate to be in a game. No offense to the designer. I was just going to play it like a regular normal.

I voted because I get scumread for not voting.

Confirmed - MariaR and Dunnstral are scum.

---

• @MariaR: I promise not to pocket as long as you vote someone.

VOTE: Raya36 You're literally a wolf.

I feel like there's more interesting people in the game at this point than these three

[Black Ranger]

Dun and Tanner are town. That's all I got otherwise.

Spicy post. Dunnstral read would be helpful and seeing how you're getting Tanner town would make me happy inside.

[Black Ranger]

I don't even know what the hell is this interaction.

Is Mafiascum all the experience you have in mafia?

[Black Ranger]

81 that transparency looked fake af from my PoV
all you are doing now is OMGUSing for profit?
my vote isnt moving easily.

I feel like missing subtext and starting shit is scummy. Klick did you redeem this slot yet?

[Black Ranger]

I feel like Elmo's entrance was strange but just personality. I honestly don't see scum motivation.

You made a similar post in Micro 701 (also Switch) when you were playing with Elmo. What's your read on her here?

[Black Ranger]

Thought this comment was weird out of Elmo when I realized that they've played this before.

I saw switch I signed up. But hey I'm not allowed to mess up at all apparently?

They later admitted it though. Not sure what it means. Could be nothing but I'm a paranoid fucker so check back in with me.

Well if it makes you feel better I almost called myself Panda, and spoke in the third person. Really it was more for me then anything else and wasn't going to delete my post though I could have taken notes for the setup or opened the page but I chose not to do any of that because well I've played this setup before.

[Black Ranger]

What do you mean about a penalty?

I don't see the risk of scum taking a leading role in a town that's demotivated. I don't see why someone taking a "leading role" is enough to disqualify them from being scum. That's what I was saying.

sup looker we've played before, hope you like the hyper posting

[Black Ranger]

btw klick have you ever rolled scum

[Black Ranger]

Solon/Elmo is likely T/S (in some order) says you, yet you proceed to place a seemingly random vote on Tanner?

Explain yourself at once!

When I assume Elmo is town, you look really bad. I have no reason to assume Elmo is town yet though.
Phrasing-wise I was struggling since stating an interaction looks T/S always has scum motivation.
I voted because I get scumread for not voting. I wasn't a fan of the emperor rvs wagon.

You're casting a shadow upon me in a most disingenuous way. You apparently have no reason to assume Elmo is Town, and yet I am scummy for not jumping to the same assumption? What exactly did I say to provoke this opinion?

Why weren't you a fan of the Emperor wagon, that you preferred an entirely random vote instead?

And I still don't understand why you'd go for a random vote over someone who has a 50% chance of being scum in your mind?

NDMath looks like supreme lynchbait here.

This is my first good lead of the game right here VOTE: Solon

[Black Ranger]

VOTE: Maria

She is approaching the game exactly as I'd expect scum to do early doors; complacently easing herself back into her armchair, slippers on, by the fire with her cup of cocoa. Reclining back with a satisfied air, waiting for the entertainment to begin.

Well, not on my watch!

Yeah fuck Maria in particular

[Black Ranger]

0verki11, Looker, and Maria are >rand scum, but again I need to see more.

Was this just PoE at the time?

[Black Ranger]

3/4) Do you realize that in a N0 setup the scum team 100% meta dived?

Did I have a stroke while reading this because it's my impression that what you said had nothing to do with what Solon said?

[Black Ranger]

I disagree with both of the main wagons at the moment. Here's something I'll start up just to see where it takes me
VOTE: Nips

Why do you disagree with the ND wagon?

Why do you disagree with the Nips wagon?

[Black Ranger]

While it's not bad in isolation, it is pretty scummy when you consider other things. He's more focused on not being "scum read".

If you don't like this interaction I don't see how you could necessarily dislike the nips vote.

[Black Ranger]

*insert town-slip here*

Maria opinions on this post ty

[Black Ranger]

Also, asking for townreads at this point is like asking for a gamesolve. How am I supposed to determine alignments if no one is doing anything? What I'm foreseeing is apathy until deadline, and there are no plurality lynches. I think we'd be better off discussing now instead of letting people lurk until last minute.

What are your townreads?

[Black Ranger]

Where I'm out now is
Emperor Dunnstral
Elmo MariaR
Tanner Raya36
Looker Alban Overki11
Knightmare Solon

Which I realize now is very influenced by people's read on me so I'm gonna have to rethink.

Putting this in my iso

[Black Ranger]

Klick you're really tryhard here did you get a red pm?

[Black Ranger]

Dunnstral
MariaR, Knightmare491

VOTE: MariaR
I'd happily have my vote on any of the bottom three, but this feels like the best bet atm.

I feel like Maria and Dunnstral would go for more theatre/have more fun here. Knightmare is the more interesting read here. Why are they scum?

[Black Ranger]

Don't like Maria's reads. I'll get into it more later. I do agree with the null onto Dunnstral. Raya's tr on him is premature. He's had ~~maybe~~ one good post in 172.

[Black Ranger]

Are you SK reading NDMath, Maria?

[Black Ranger]

@Klick, in that post I linked, you said I wasn't saying anything alignment-indicative and that I was just messing around and not playing.

@Elmo, you're not voting anybody

Is Elmo not committing to someone strange to you?

[Black Ranger]

I've heard of one previous run of this setup where two Townies died Night 0. Town lynched scum back-to-back 3 Days. Then mislynched single time and lost. And we're arguably worse off because both the Cop and Doc are dead. So.

I feel like there's lots of utility of the doc being out of the game here

[Black Ranger]

Maria feels very calm tonally, is that normal for her as any alignment?
@Anyone who's played with her before

It means she drew SK. We need three kills on Maria tonight just to be sure.

[Black Ranger]

100% endorse Solon's vote for exactly why it's there. Skipped last page because I'm not reading a fucking self circle-jerk fest that literally should've been resolved in one post like I'm doing here. I'll read it later if and when I need to resolve that slot.

[Black Ranger]

She'd said she was confident in her vote, but she wasn't voting at the time. (Or at least I thought - The Wiz's rules says he doesn't count anything unless it's in vote tags)

How does Elmo match up to how she played in Purgatory?

[Black Ranger]

The vote itself is fine. Re-reading I'm getting doubts about his interaction with tanner right before that though.

The vote was terrible because Tanner was trying to start something with regards to the switch mechanic and basing it as a reason to vote is only scum intentioned (because if you weren't thinking critically about the game you wouldn't care). Tanner was doing a something there to provoke TMI.

Didn't see much right or wrong with that slot, don't know what to make of their "slip" which later on and ND is scum so that.

I don't expect scum to tell me that they're scum. I expect them to act in ways only scum could. Focusing on slips is pointless.

Knight looks good. He's in a tunnel and his tone comes off like he really believes the read.

So do you think me v ND is t v t? Cause if not, you should be voting ND.

The content in 134 doesn't have anything to do with the alignments of NDMath/Tanner. It only shows that Tanner gave a fuck and gives me not!SK vibes as a result. Nips voting him was independently bad.

VOTE: Nips

[Black Ranger]

I'm not team hunting though, plus sk wouldn't have a partner anyway. To me you look like not town, figuring out teams isn't something I do before anti town flips

I don't think I'm using buzzwords or "saying stuff to look better".

Does scum Maria leave NDMath in this color in 204 and refuse to acknowledge it? See my 252.

[Black Ranger]

A lot of Knightmare's content feels empty and like he's looking for stances to take instead of pushing what he believes. His NDMath vote is an example of what I mean there. Things like NDMath answering a question posed to him while saying he wants to drop the conversation just... aren't that scummy? And it doesn't feel like something that he'd believe actually makes NDMath scum.
And I played with Knightmare briefly in a recent Newbie game and didn't notice anything like this.

A quick dive on this game shows me they're really abrasive when they tunnel. How fakeable is his tunnel on NDMath here?

[Black Ranger]

I'm having a hard time finding the game you're referring to.

Meant to say Open 704.

[Black Ranger]

VOTE: Knight I still believe Looker is scum but there isn't much traction there.

Is Looker the sort of player to miss a vote like Nips'?

Thoughts on Knight pushing NDMath in response to Maria voting Nips?

[Black Ranger]

choo choo

VOTE: Knightmare

[Black Ranger]

My vote is provocative because I agree with Raya's 357 but I don't actually care enough about NKA to base a case on Knightmare over it.

It's a better move to make a vote here and see what happens.

Didn't like the vote:
-NDMath
-Chkflip
-Elmo

I guess by numbers alone it means it isn't exactly pro-mafia to shade me over it :shrug:

[Black Ranger]

VOTE: Knight I still believe Looker is scum but there isn't much traction there.

Is Looker the sort of player to miss a vote like Nips'?

Thoughts on Knight pushing NDMath in response to Maria voting Nips?

VOTE: tanner

How is this vote illegitimate?

That was an RVS vote.

Yeah, no, the problem was that Tanner was doing Good Stuff™ and NDMath either didn't get it or was playing dumb, and Nips came right in and voted Tanner for it. It was a anti-town stinker vote. Then when Maria came on board for Nips Knight countered with NDMath.

VOTE: tanner

NDMath opinions on this vote

The vote itself is fine. Re-reading I'm getting doubts about his interaction with tanner right before that though.

I really feel like by 70 you should have understood what Tanner was trying to do. How many heads did this fly over?

[Black Ranger]

Are you claiming vigilante?

Im making an educated guess based off the information known in the game.

A vig taking a shot would be very reckless none the less and for once at least this game I am trying not to do that.

What information in the game makes you think Maria was shot by the sk?

I still don't understand this, or rather I don't think it makes sense from a town perspective

It makes sense in the vein that what Tanner did was bait. If allowing people to freely speculate on it increases the odds of a cross kill, we should tolerate it even if it isn't optimal discussion.

[Black Ranger]

I don't think there was a good reason for sk to be off wagon yesterday?
So I think sk is probably just between Elmo, Raya, and Dunn.

Though none of those are in my top scumreads and I don't particularly care to sk hunt with all mafia still alive.

based

[Black Ranger]

Dunn was quite quiet on day 1, today he seems diff. I can't really put my finger on what exactly, but it gives me odd vibes.

Dunnstral lurks more than this as scum.

[Black Ranger]

He was scum reading Maria too hmm, maybe they thought she's the SK?

VOTE: Dunn

So are you calling Dunnstral the vig?

Based and not!vigpilled.

[Black Ranger]

VOTE: Dunnstral I don't know why you and Raya have been given passes. I get it, I wasn't around, but I feel we could've secured a lynch with the players that were around during deadline.

VOTE: Raya36

What is Raya getting a pass for?

[Black Ranger]

I'll do this or fitz today, holla @ me.

[Black Ranger]

When you say "I'll do this" who are you referring to? If it's where your vote currently stands (Knightmare) why vote someone who is supporting the same wagon? If "this" isn't Knightmare...why is your vote still on him?

Trying to clue in that I don't like the associatives between your slots is hella gross. There's no positive points I can attribute after I reveal a tell. This is manipulative shit.

[Black Ranger]

Well I was gonna come in and vote for Knightmare again but seeing as he's at L-1 I'll just say that's where I want my vote to be. Based off of NKA the only thing that has been said to make me think he could be town is that scum are setting him up to look bad (and it was him who said that). But that only makes sense if klick was the scum kill which we don't even know for sure. I think as someone mentioned, if he was town he probably would've been lynched more easily. Also I don't agree with his Dunn vote and it looks bad since Dunn was making a case on him.

I'm going to come back to this and say "what if Maria was the SK kill for sure"?

I care a lot about the NKA, but only because Maria never answered me when I asked her what this post meant. I've been holding back because it isn't ~~productive~~ so somebody else could do the work, but I might as well air it out if I'm the only one letting on.

MariaR (4):

Solon, Dunnstral, Klick,

Tanner

NDMath (3):

Black Ranger,

Knightmare491, Looker

Elmo TeH AzN (1):

Raya36

Solon (1):

NDMath

Looker (1):

Elmo TeH AzN

Emperor flippyNips (1): MariaR

Not Voting (1):

Emperor flippyNips

There's no way all scum are on my wagon that's legit stupid. So, where am I wrong in my reads? Meh, I'll think this over tomorrow I'm tired

Are you SK reading NDMath, Maria?

NDMath is WAY too invested in finding this SK. I'm happy if we all fight over who is actually scummy and lynch somebody from my list of preferred scummy. These elaborate plans are just plain wrong.

[Black Ranger]

I'm playing through as everyone being scum. When I look through Raya's ISO, I'm not seeing her receive heat for anything and her votes are moreso convenient. Up until chkflip's and Knightmare's votes, I felt the same thing about you. I feel Knightmare voted out of survivalism, but I don't know why chkflip voted.

It's really disrespectful of the dead to forget about what they had to say.

How is Dunnstral d1 vs d2 and which one is worse?

[Black Ranger]

So anyway, lurkers. Is Knightmare not considered this here?

He's been intented for over a day and can't claim vig here so he's either flaking or defeated scum.

[Black Ranger]

What a start to the game! I checked Battle Mage's post history and he was completely active during the time he had to confirm his role.

VOTE: havingfitz

This read is irl scummy

[Black Ranger]

Welp This was a fun game. So what PR we got left? Tracker? Oh Na we got the vig. Yes I'm reading this setup as I move down the list.

I'm assuming you were reading the list of roles here https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ch_(Setup)
Why would you guess tracker, or anything else for that matter? Cop, Doc and Vig are mentioned consecutively below each other in that order.

He was scum reading Maria too hmm, maybe they thought she's the SK?

VOTE: Dunn

So are you calling Dunnstral the vig?

Based and not!vigpilled.

Are you even reading? I said he's prob maf who killed Maria.

Yeah but here's the rub- somehow I doubt the SK chose town immunity over mafia. And I feel like you should know that.

[Black Ranger]

Welcome, Paragon

I feel like we're going into MYLO

---

• @Ranger: I don't understand what you're telling me. Are you saying that a dead player criticized either Dunnstral or Raya? Because I'm not seeing it.

Maria doubted Dunnstral. Seems serious to me if they had scumread each other given their history. It's not a read made lightly.

Is Raya even a lynch today? The worst thing she did was immediate NKA after the start of day, but these weren't exactly low information kills, either, so I'm not incredibly bothered by it.

[Black Ranger]

Gonna prodge on ndmath 487 i dont even know what i'm saying rn

[Black Ranger]

I've played with Battle Mage before and he was maybe in a game of mine during that period. Viewing your role PMing and ignoring it seems like a very scum-indicative thing to do. If it was town and I'd joined too many games, I would let the mod know I'd want to sub out, not just let the clock run down while I posted elsewhere. That sounds more like he was putting it off.

You really need to have another read. It doesn't even seem like you care about developing a read on the nip/fitz slot tbh. Have you read the game yet?

[Black Ranger]

Checkin in to say I'm good with the lynch

There's been zero chance of anything worthwhile being said since Knightmare slipped not-vig without hard claiming vanilla.

[Black Ranger]

Knightmare did claim VT?

Yeah, but way too late.

He was scum reading Maria too hmm, maybe they thought she's the SK?

VOTE: Dunn

So are you calling Dunnstral the vig?

Based and not!vigpilled.

Oh somebody claimed intent, I'm VT.

See 493. Knightmare knew the setup from the beginning, so either he forgot about the SK's powers or didn't realize that he was claiming not-vig. These cases aren't mutually exclusive, but in the case of

2

, do you think his two-day delayed VT claim is town?

[Black Ranger]

VOTE: brassherald

Every inhabitant of this slot has shit it up so I look forward to the trend continuing

[Black Ranger]

The plan is sound, but it's overlooking the edge cases:

Mafia shoots with the singular purpose of hitting the SK (no drawback besides hitting town and reaching the "cross kill endgame")

The increased power of the vigilante with a mafia lynch today. @ 4:1:1 the vigilante only needs to find one townie to become a weighted coin flip to hit scum.

The only scenario in our control is 2. The "probable case" of a mafia lynch means the vig could holster and we could lynch mafia in place of the no lynch on day 4, but it's also likely that the SK will vighunt in this world, because a 2:1 with the vig alive is a very likely town win. Removing discussion from day 4 has utility here.

[Black Ranger]

I feel like there's clear reasons to lynch brassherald and calling them ~~reasons~~ is just antispew or ick voting. Whatever.

[Black Ranger]

UNVOTE:

I'm sure it's just the weather but I do feel grossed out. Thanks.

[Black Ranger]

I feel like this game is an easy read considering I did it in an evening while doing other stuff?

Just follow along my ISO while you read because I responded to everything worthwhile when I replaced in.

[Black Ranger]

Also the mod has more posts than most of the players in this game. WTF?

[Black Ranger]

Sk hunting is mostly pointless. Let the mafia waste a shot on them tonight and we'll find out anyway.

[Black Ranger]

Now that Dunnstral responded:

Personally I'm leaning lynch Paragon, I'm still pretty sure he's mafia based on knightmare interactions, and his reads seem weak

Looker is weirding me out by still voting me

Are we lynching the SK or not?

Do you think that Dunnstral is SK hunting and is Paragon town or not?

[Black Ranger]

What math are you doing to get to brassherald as SK?

[Black Ranger]

Does anyone think Raya/Looker?

They both tried to get discussion about kills- 357, 543.

I thought the kills last night were straightforward.

[Black Ranger]

I mean, maybe. Dunnstral and I did go over that it was more likely that the SK chose mafia immunity to town immunity, let's check what brass claimed to have read at that point.

[Black Ranger]

I brought it up d2, but when Dunnstral brought it up today brassherald was the next post. I think it's rational to assume mafia immunity over town immunity (surely the SK would only take town immunity as a bluff).