Mini 2136 | City That Never Sleeps [Game over!]

[GuiltyLion]

Auro what would you think if Titus flips town

[GuiltyLion]

also Titus if you

actually read

D1 and GL/Auro interactions you'd also see that we're pretty transparently not partners, I'm not capable as scum of faking the level of frustration I felt with him and the degree to which we engaged about the game on a wide variety of fronts

Shoot this pings.

pings in what sense? That you disagree with it, or that scum is more likely to say it?

Our ISO combined has 570+ posts, of which I'd guess conservatively at least 80-100 (if not more) are us directly talking to each other, often walling, and constantly pushing for further explanation or pressuring on thoughts.

Again, look at the last scum game I played with Atari, we sent maybe 5-6 total questions towards each other and they were all pretty tame one-liners. I'm an engineer, not a drama student, I'm straight up not capable of the degree of theatre required to have the combined ISO I have with Auro this game. Like this would easily be my greatest scumgame ever played if I'm scum with Auro here.

[GuiltyLion]

Auro what would you think if Titus flips town

It's useful to sort this out anyway because I could very well be conf-biased. Why would Eve be scum if Titus is town? I don't see it.

on this -

the only thing Titus has said that I've liked so far is when she acknowledged that if she was wrong on both of us, that Eve was probscum for "sucking up and leaving". I do think Eve's interactions with her don't strike me as likely to be T-T, and I also think Eve fits a good POE candidate if I've been off so far on both scum!Karnage and scum!Titus

[GuiltyLion]

I don't like proactively offering up reasons for why you would or wouldn't do something as scum

Why do you say it's 'proactive'? Titus was saying Auro/GL are distancing partners based on our behavior in response to her.

in response to that

, I pointed out that I believe the entirety of our D1 play is outside of my scumrange. That's not proactive, it's a direct rejoinder to a claim that she made

[GuiltyLion]

Acryon what happened to your Eve scumread? You spent most of D1 voting Eve and still seemed suspicious of her D2, but have barely interacted with her or pushed her today

[GuiltyLion]

6 hours, I am here, reading up

[GuiltyLion]

Controversial opinion, I actually think skitter looks way worse on a Titus townflip than on a Titus scumflip. If she's scum with Titus she's basically betting the game on being able to deflect the vote away from Titus, but her reasoning is vague and she isn't pushing a counterwagon. That is much more of a whiteknighting archetype than a partner defending one.

Actually the more I think about the more I feel like skitter/Titus isn't a viable team. I'll have to talk to lilith about this because I think that's her solve atm.

yeah this is what I was trying to say earlier as well, I think scum!skitter paired with scum!Rex is a little more cautious/careful about defending him when the thread starts looking in his direction

[GuiltyLion]

Votecount 2.8

Target	Wagon
acryon (3)	Atarashi Hajimari (1660), Auro (1929), Eve (1956)
Titus (2)	The Limit Does Not Exist (1635), BBmolla (1903)
Eve (2)	acryon (1978), Titus (1979)
Not Voting (2)	GuiltyLion (1780), skitter30 (1877)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. The Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2020-05-14 17:47:59).

This is a crucial VC that I feel will help with some flips after today

I spent some time trying to figure out how I currently feel about it but I think there's a bit too many assumptions for me to get a solve from it

but I do think both acryon/Titus voting Eve as their counterwagon makes Eve the wrong lynch today even if one of those slots is town

and in terms of "where are my townreads voting", it makes Titus feel like the best lynch here.

my current reads are like

super town - {Limit, Molla, Atari}
prob town, enough to not want today but reconsider at LYLO tier - {Skit, Auro}
meh - {Eve, Acryon, Titus}

which is both convenient and horribly inconvenient that this VC is the way that it is with me feeling ambivalent about all three wagons

[GuiltyLion]

acryon is probably town.

why is acryon probably town on a Titus scum flip?

I'm not trying to disagree with you I just don't have a clear idea why off the top of my head

[GuiltyLion]

He doesn't have any solid reads, but his posting before that seemed to indicate confidence in certain reasoning. I disagree with his evaluations on various slots including myself, Eve, Molla (I townread Molla for other reasons, but I have a problem with his evaluation of things). The whole "Auro/GL isn't TvT, I don't know where, I guess Auro" seems fake. I've had MUCH more to my play yesterday than the copbloc thing: that play doesn't purely revolve around mechanics, it means I actually have to identify town and scum candidates before I dictate it, which I was actively doing - so dismissing all of that play because the cop's dead feels disingenuous. When I made a U-Turn on Titus, suddenly Eve got voted by both Skitter and Acryon, and their reasoning for Eve!scum would apply earlier too: where was that when Titus was being pushed? I feel like Titus is town, and Skitter/Crayon were both just lulling around thinking that lynch would go through; when I disbanded that, suddenly both of them think I'm second likeliest scum, and both Eve. A little fishy, no?

I like this post a lot

Acryon also tried to discredit my "Auro-GL cannot be a team" logic by invalidating the entire concept of self-meta, rather than looking critically at my point that if we are the team we engaged in the most labored, obnoxious, thread spammy theater for hundreds of posts on D1 which I simply basically never do as scum

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: acryon

I think this is the best lynch.

I have a work meeting in a few min so I'll be back in a little bit, but when it comes down to it I feel Acryon's posts are a really good emulation/performance of what reasoning and solving is supposed to look like, rather than a holistic attempt to actually solve. The way his Eve scum read disappeared for most of D2 when thread attention was elsewhere and then came back at deadline in time to counter to Titus/his own wagon feels more convenient than a genuine belief in scum!Eve he's had.

[GuiltyLion]

I'm sorry but I've seen thread spammy theater before. I'm glad you supposedly don't engage in that as scum, but even then there's a first time for everything isn't there? That's why I had a problem with that kind of defense--it just doesn't mean anything.

On this, this is one of those Bayesian things where I think town should be looking at what is

likely

not what is

possible

is it

possible

that Auro and I are a team and we decided to play D1 by arguing with each other in circles over whether and why I townread Eve, why I scumread Allo, why I townread Skitter, etc etc etc ad nauseum? Is it

possible

that I decided to fake getting progressively more and more frustrated at his endless series of "but why" questions, questions about reads that ultimately don't matter at all in securing a D1 mislynch on anyone but us? Sure, anything's possible.

But is it

likely

? Given that the odds of Auro/GL being the exact solve in a vacuum, is already very low? Given that my meta and history as a player consistently shows a lack of ability/willingness/effort to wall and tryhard so much on D1 when it's not needed? Given that neither of us were especially suspected slots on D1 in danger of lynch, and there was a wealth of slots (Karnage, Eve, Molla, Allo, Rex) barely posting half as much content combined?

[GuiltyLion]

if you flip town then Eve will have been a counterwagon to two town slots and will likely not make it through F5

[GuiltyLion]

oooh that feels like a promising twilight post

give us the scumflip NSG pls

[GuiltyLion]

I haven't gotten around to rereading this game yet, I will do so today, I need to hard reset

Auro over Limit is a weird shot there IMO

Molla who do you think was scum on the wagon

[GuiltyLion]

is it really just skitter/titus

[GuiltyLion]

sorry I still haven't reread the game and had time to effort yet and I've been putting that off

my gut is telling me Titus is town here, or at least more town than Skitter, but I do actually want to reread

Titus - regarding your latest post, yes, I thought Eve was town, and did not want to vote there. That doesn't make me scum.

[GuiltyLion]

BBmolla > GL > AH > Eve > Titus > skitter.

-Smart

this is basically where my head is at right now, but I want to do my homework cause I'm not quite sure either Skitter/Titus or Skitter/Eve teams feel like they make perfect sense to me

I just feel that strongly I am not wrong. The Skitter in team mafia was competent and carried. This skitter is not a carry at all.

we've only had mislynches and the TA was shot n1, this game is going pretty well for scum rn lmao

[GuiltyLion]

notable early game skit/eve interactions

That awkward moment when to want to vote and unvote someone at the same time.
Blergh
VOTE: Eve let's see what happens here

what are you thinking about their entrance?

I feel it's less likely skit indirectly defends a buddy this way

this would be a whole lotta theater, especially the end:

Spoiler:

gl's post is pinging me the wrong way

and eve is ... confusing me rn

thanks it's a new look i'm going for actually

are you usually this like ... flippant?

what do you mean

some of my remarks are sarcastic i'm not actually calling you guys tryhards if that wasn't apparent

the traffic analyst claim is ... kinda weird
and so is your like overall tone

like i'm having trouble seeing why the real traffic analyst would claim that
scum would want to be on wagon to avoid being checked

and idk why a vt would be doing what you're doing

so like i have no idea why you'd want to be doing that as town
but like i can see some benefits to doing that as scum

pedit that's the flippant part

how about for fun

meh even though it theoretically would/could benefit scum to post those things (and to follow through on things like lolhammers), i don't really see scum like actually making these posts unless they were super like cocky in their own scumgame, if that makes sense

bold of you to assume i'm not cocky in my scumgame

i am a scum god

can you link your most recent scumgame?

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=81667

also worth noting the question about Eve's recent scum game never really went anywhere

i was thinking of voting allo but i was kinda getting the vibe that if did l-1 eve might lolhammer and don't think we're quite ready for that yet

^this is sneaky sly if this is S talking about S

[GuiltyLion]

I don't think Rex and Skitter are scum together

oh this is an interesting take, why is that?

also bold... but feels more likely IMO than some of the skit/eve interactions being theater

[GuiltyLion]

I don’t think we should follow through with the allomancer lynch. Whilst his ISO isn’t

good

, it’s not terrible either. I think the best course of action is to scumhunt a little more first, to see if anyone else seems more scummy. We have a deadline, and we may as well use all that time. If allomancer still seems the scummiest after that time, then we can lynch him. But my point is that we shouldn’t lynch him yet.

this all at once sounds: svs, wishy-washy, and throwing in platitudes to try to prevent an allo lynch (which isn't imminently happening anyways ...)

Whilst I feel that TheLimitDoesNotExist is clearly mafia

Really? You don't think they could be reading things wrongly, Rex?
You're 100% sure they're being disingenuous and not that there's a miscommunication somewhere?

i think they're being disingenuous, yeah
sauce is fine, i think
i think he seems to be a 'slow and steady' sort of player who wants to utilize the full time as much as possible, which is why he told us to slow our horses on allo and even now he's saying that he isn't advocating a limit lynch right now

his allo push was bad but he exhibited the same mindset in ... all three of his stated lynch/scum options (eve, allo, and limit), so i think that this is just how he approaches the game and how he feels about the best way to use our time

smart is shading your townbloc strategy, and smarter is misrepping people to push them
and smart is also a lot more passive than i'd expect him to be

man I forgot how weird this progression was

[GuiltyLion]

I generally feel like Auro died for two reasons

1) he was hard pushing Skit
2) so Titus could make the VCA argument above

there's really no reason not to shoot Limit over Auro here unless Auro specifically was pushing scum

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: skitter

[GuiltyLion]

where is Atari

I want Atari

[GuiltyLion]

I haven't felt an especially strong need to respond to Skitter/Titus recent posts, I've been waiting for Atari to do something today

Molla what are your thoughts on Titus maybe being town here? I still think she's being super stubborn in a way that mayyyy be town indicative and I kinda agree with Eve that replacing a newbie friend into a hydra at this point as mafia is kind of wild

[GuiltyLion]

gl can you answer this: who exactly is my partner here?

I'm thinking Titus or Atari would make the most sense. I don't at all think it's Eve fwiw.

skitter when were you trying to lynch Karnage again? I was pushing him for most of day 1 and day 2 and the wagon never took off or felt like it had much support behind it.

[GuiltyLion]

Honestly? I think your most likely partner is Eve.

Certainly I don't think your implication that your partner wouldn't be okay with lynching you holds any water.

-Smart

If you think Skitter's partner is Eve, why not vote Eve and test the theory?
What did you think of my Eve case?

because he's voting someone else he thinks is scummy? this post is bleh

I'm gonna have to talk to lilith about this.

My original thought was that Titus was scummy, and if Titus flipped town then skitter was scummy. Titus wagon didn't take off, skitter wagon did, skitter is also scummy but if she flips scum Titus is probably town.

However, Titus and skitter are both probably pushing Eve and you are right that it would be weird to bus that consistently since day 2. So if I think that it isn't skitter/Titus then that makes AH!slot scum? But it's bad to lynch an empty slot. I don't really want to do anything until that replacement is found.

-Smart

This is kinda where I'm at. Atari seems to have pure site flaked so I don't think him disappearing is AI, but I was really hoping to get some firm direction from where he wanted to go today and try to rule out any paranoia about AH/Titus or AH/Skitter teams. Titus/Skitter feels possible but not like super especially good as an explanation for this game.

[GuiltyLion]

oh wait Smart's not even voting lol

regardless I still gut dislike that Titus post

[GuiltyLion]

so like ... who am i even scum with?
what has scum!me been doing all game
scum!me does not explain how this phase and the last one have played out really

what has town!you been doing all game?

[GuiltyLion]

gl's acryon progression is actually kinda icky ngl

wasn't I your strongest townread just one page ago

I think the acryon lynch was town paranoia off of a fairly convincing case from Atari and some questionable responses from acryon. I think it's easy to say in hindsight 'oh he was obvtown bad lynch' - and I'm sure scum want to say that here - but at the time I was talking myself into town!Titus, I was still town reading Skitter and Eve, and so that felt like a good shot for where I was most likely to be misreading the game. I agree Titus would have been a better lynch now, but idk, at twilight I was feeling pretty good about it being a flash wagon onto scum.

[GuiltyLion]

pushing who i think is scum ...

not really? Like I can't genuinely recall why you personally think Eve is scum?

[GuiltyLion]

I think I feel most certain that Skitter/Eve has a scum in it

and then Titus/AH are a mystery, Titus scummier than AH but honestly both slots are a mixed bag and both bad

the thing is Titus/Eve team doesn't feel like it makes much sense in the same way Skitter/Eve team doesn't make much sense

[GuiltyLion]

Skitter put yourself in my shoes and assume I'm town

who is Eve's partner? Like I'd just make all the same arguments you're making to clear yourself to clear Eve. Realistically she's only partners with me and I'm town

[GuiltyLion]

Lynch Eve, and if she's town, lynch skitter and Titus, and if she's scum, lynch GL and AH.

also I'm still thinking about this and what teams we'd lose to but it doesn't feel like the worst action we could take

[GuiltyLion]

lemme see if Eve/AH holds up

I gave AH a lot of credit for playing outside the scum range I just saw but in Saw mafia that just recently burned me on GeorgeBailey

[GuiltyLion]

yeah actually the Karnage/Eve interactions are pretty bad lol

[GuiltyLion]

why is this a sigh I'm literally trying to consider your PoV here

[GuiltyLion]

alright well

I think I can be convinced to vote Eve, especially if Limit is a go for it

clearly I am wrong in townreads somewhere and lynching the slot that's been CW to town twice now is not a bad idea

[GuiltyLion]

it's mostly that the team solves with skitter don't make a lot of sense whereas you/Karnage is suddenly making a ton of sense

also I so desperately just wanna be right about my vanity Karnage scumread

[GuiltyLion]

like I'm bad at mafia but I'm not normally

this

bad at mafia

[GuiltyLion]

I'm thinkin' bout that Auro night kill again

I don't think it clears you Eve, like if anything, you're kinda playing how I play as scum when I make a WIFOM NK and I don't bring it up to defend myself but just hope that the townies pick it up themselves and run with it without me having to argue it myself.

It does seem really weird that Limit wasn't killed when Limit is UTR and nigh unlynchable, but Limit hasn't really been steering towards Eve or Atari either. Maybe scum wanted other townies to pick up the Skitter torch in place of Auro to make them dirtier for a 5p LYLO of Eve/Atari/Titus/GL/Molla, feels like almost anyone is lynchable there

[GuiltyLion]

and if GL v Titus is TvT and persists there then scum kinda have it in the bag

[GuiltyLion]

if you're scum you don't have to pretend to read just claim it and we can save you the trouble

[GuiltyLion]

also I'ma UNVOTE:

[GuiltyLion]

i feel like town!GL and town!skitts should have done something to switch the lynch off of nomnom towards the end there. Eve or Karnage would have been better. GL sort of tried with Karnage I suppose, not really though

This feels like a pretty significant misrep. I was hard pushing Karnage at EOD yesterday, and if you think "town!GL should have done something", then you should see me as town for these posts.

i'm kinda most skeptical of where she accused me of slipping because i really don't think there's any universe where she actually believes that

I agree with this, the slip accusation was really lazy/bad. So bad that I actually do kinda find myself questioning whether scum!nom would even post that, but in any case I really don't believe that she felt any conviction towards it being a real scum slip and that's absolutely worth pushing on.

i'm kinda most skeptical of where she accused me of slipping because i really don't think there's any universe where she actually believes that

I read it as being a joke

this is possibly worse still though, how could you see it as a joke? Like best case "totally checked out and disengaged town taking a potshot" maybe, but there's no 'joke' there?

I'm trying not to confbias myself in my Karnage/nom tunnel but
a) all these Karnage defenses of nom and
b) nom reverting from the really thoughtful/observant player of earlier this game

just seem to fit it so well from my POV? why are we entertaining the idea of lynching Allo/Eve at this point still? I'm fine with Allo in the copbloc, I don't feel Skit really needs to be in there anymore.

I think my dream rn is a Karnage lynch with nom/Allo/Molla/Saus off wagon, tho most importantly nom/Allo, happy to defer the Molla/Saus/other slots to whoever other people want to put there.

All of this is happening because I ain't 100% sure about Allo anymore and I was sure about him, and I'm having second doubts and I just can't see the fucking scum in this game.
It must be in skitt/eve/molla honestly, I just don't see it anywhere... I can't just see who the hell is scum here according to this gamestate.

K A R N A G E

I don't know why you TR him in the face of Skit/I bringing up good points against him?? His 'early posts' were so good you can't possibly imagine them being scum?

sarcasm can be a joke.

this still doesn't make sense also lmao

Skitter says people are 'townposting' instead of 'wallposting' and nom says "hmmm did you just SLIP?"

let's say this was sarcasm and a joke. that means nom is still town reading skitter, by definition. Let's set aside that nom's subsequent posting makes it abundantly clear that this wasn't actually the case.

now forgive me for being a joke-killer by needed it explained, but what exactly is supposed to be funny here? Like, what humor is there in suggesting someone might be scum when you don't actually think they are, when the game we're playing is precisely about figuring out who is being genuine in accusing people of being scum vs who is lying? The only only way there could be a joke there is if it's like an in-joke or reference to some similar accusation that skitter made before in their history together, but like, ... that just doesn't apply here.

Please explain to me what the joke

is

and why it is funny in this situation, because I don't get it!

can you explain why you'd rather reverse on your lynchbait townread of Eve instead of considering at all the possibility that Karnage might be scum here? What do you think of him defending you by saying you were joking when you accused skit of slipping?

Possibly yes, at least eve!scum makes more sense than karnage!scum.

in one corner, we have Eve:
- pushed by many slots all day
- claimed TA and shitposts a lot
- in your own words, mislynch bait

and in another, we have Karnage:
- makes an effort to sound town in early game
- repeatedly "needs to catch up" in mid game, doesn't push any real scumreads or make an effort to advance game
- says Allo is null, then says Allo is likely town, then is fine with lynching Allo
- rushed to your defense when you awkwardly/questionably accused skitter of slipping, saying it was a joke longer than even you did (if you are legit town, this is good chance of WKing IMO)

not seeing why you think former is higher odds of scum than the latter

nom why is Karnage town?!?

I don't really care about compromising on Eve I care about Karnage being scummy scum scum and you starting stupid 1v1s with Skitter and deciding Eve is the best lynch and similar shit instead of joining me on Karnage

Lynch Karnage and cop nom

I'll be flabbergasted if there's not scum in either of those two slots

You guys are voting me because I think someone you think is scum is town, which is pretty stupid.
Vote your scumreads.

also this isn't stupid, Skit and I both repeatedly tried to engage you on why Karnage is town and your response was to pick ridiculous fights (accusing skit of slipping) and look for distractions elsewhere that you hadn't otherwise pushed all day (Molla). That could just as easily be WKing as S-S, I think it reads S-S in this instance but faked townreads are just as scummy as fake scumreads.

I'd honestly need to re-read the game I think to give a 100% accurate opinion on that, but to me it felt like Smart/you were just having a lot of posts together (which is what I was referring to when I said walls) and scums were just waiting patiently. Makes sense still, methinks.

yeah, like Karnage?

I'll give you infinite towncred if you powerlynch scum!Karnage here with me

Skit is going to be back for a brief bit at some point, right?

We really need to consolidate on a lynch here. I'll vote almost anyone at this point. I actually think Karnage may be the way to go if we think nom's last bit of posting is genuine. His defense of her by saying she was joking when accusing Skit of scum slipping is wildly off the mark and hard for me to fathom as a genuine interpretation of that post/interaction without any agenda.

VOTE: Karnage

I'll hammer it if nothing happens in the next 8 hours but I still maintain Karnage a better lynch here. It's literally deadline and where is the guy?

Like I honestly don't know what

more

I could have done? Keeping in mind that Auro was demanding that I not be on whatever lynch wagon happens by EOD?

[GuiltyLion]

sorry EOD of D1, not "yesterday"

[GuiltyLion]

Eve/Karnage team also kinda explains why this town wasn't able to bloc cohesively on D1... half of us pushing one scum and half pushing the other, and we flailingly compromised at deadline on a town slot who saw one but not the other.

[GuiltyLion]

i feel like town!GL and town!skitts should have done something to switch the lynch off of nomnom towards the end there. Eve or Karnage would have been better. GL sort of tried with Karnage I suppose, not really though

also, how do you figure your slot would have been a better lynch than a slot that was awkwardly and implausibly defending your slot?

that kinda smells like scum intention to shade people for their bad votes on a D1 lynch than genuinely trying to understand why the nom lynch happened the way it did.

[GuiltyLion]

sorry I'm prob being a lil harsh if you're town MT, but I'm really struggling to find town/scum in {Skit/Eve/Titus} and it feels like the game kinda depends on it here if I'm being shaded as possible scum. Like if Eve flips scum then it's alright cause that'll buy us a mislynch that we can use on me if we absolutely must, but if Eve is town and somehow one of skit/Titus is town then we in big trouble

[GuiltyLion]

I mean your arguments are alright and. if you're town they make sense, but they're what I'd expect scum!you to say in that situation and rereading some of D1 I got reminded of why I was originally townreading Skitter so strongly

do you have any compelling reasons to think you're town over Skitter other than the Auro NK?

[GuiltyLion]

Eve is saying I can bus skitter and then lynch you in LYLO.

Also yes of course it is me and Eve that's why I'm going through all this effort of reevaliating on Eve and literally volunteering myself to be a possible mislynch if she flips scum

Titus no thoughts on MT's catchup?

[GuiltyLion]

you're pretty smart Titus you can work it out on your own

Skitter can't mislynch himself if he's scum. You can't keep your mindset straight.

It's Guilty and Eve.

I just hate that I have to consider that this might actually be town!Titus completely misinterpreting posts and making baseless accusations off of that

[GuiltyLion]

Man

I just don't understand why Skitter and Titus townread eachother

so hard

It's really making this hard

[GuiltyLion]

Eve what would you say your confidence is in skit scum

Cause if we lynch her and she flips town I feel like we have to lynch you does that not worry you at all

[GuiltyLion]

Eve is saying I can bus skitter and then lynch you in LYLO.

Also yes of course it is me and Eve that's why I'm going through all this effort of reevaliating on Eve and literally volunteering myself to be a possible mislynch if she flips scum

Titus no thoughts on MT's catchup?

But it wouldn't be lylo if you bussed Skitter

if you are town, can you please try to think for like 3 seconds before you post these takes

Skitter + Guilty Team
-mislynch Eve today
-5p tomorrow

Guilty can either:

-Bus skitter in 5p
-Lynch you in 3p for the win

OR

-Lynch you in 5p for the win

It should not be hard to understand Eve's point from those posts.

[GuiltyLion]

Eve is saying I can bus skitter and then lynch you in LYLO.

Also yes of course it is me and Eve that's why I'm going through all this effort of reevaliating on Eve and literally volunteering myself to be a possible mislynch if she flips scum

Titus no thoughts on MT's catchup?

MT is pretty obvtown from that catchup but I already had them as obvtown. As for interacting with their reads, I want to wait for their full catchup.

MT, do you think your slot was obvtown?

[GuiltyLion]

i feel like town!GL and town!skitts should have done something to switch the lynch off of nomnom towards the end there. Eve or Karnage would have been better. GL sort of tried with Karnage I suppose, not really though

This feels like a pretty significant misrep. I was hard pushing Karnage at EOD yesterday, and if you think "town!GL should have done something", then you should see me as town for these posts.

You think that's an intentional misrep to make you look scummy? Or just a misinterpretation (either alignment). Your wording suggests I'm misrepping you intentionally to make my reads stronger

sorry I'm prob being a lil harsh if you're town MT, but I'm really struggling to find town/scum in {Skit/Eve/Titus} and it feels like the game kinda depends on it here if I'm being shaded as possible scum. Like if Eve flips scum then it's alright cause that'll buy us a mislynch that we can use on me if we absolutely must, but if Eve is town and somehow one of skit/Titus is town then we in big trouble

Hmm okay. I can understand being worried you're being shaded for one of the mislynches.

What I mean with nom is I feel there was a certain moment where nomnom's AtE felt borderline impossible to come from scum. Around 1117/1118/1119 in my notes I wrote "I think at this point I would fall for Nom being town definitely". I'd have refused to vote her past here and definitely just went for a different PoE like Karnage. In my recollection you helped out lynch nom although I suppose a lot of that was before the AtE and when she was just being scummy, which is fair. @your quotes, I missed 1292 while reading. I appreciate u giving me these

at first I thought you were intentionally misrepping, but then I took a sec to chill and consider the town PoV and decided it might just be the effect of reading the lynch straight through in hindsight instead of being there over the last day or so in real time.

Eve is saying I can bus skitter and then lynch you in LYLO.

Also yes of course it is me and Eve that's why I'm going through all this effort of reevaliating on Eve and literally volunteering myself to be a possible mislynch if she flips scum

Titus no thoughts on MT's catchup?

MT is pretty obvtown from that catchup but I already had them as obvtown. As for interacting with their reads, I want to wait for their full catchup.

MT, do you think your slot was obvtown?

As of Karnage on D1 -- no

What happened between the end of D1 thru before I got replaced, don't know yet.

GL if you did townread Karnage, who would the team be? Apologies if that's already abundantly clear from reading today I'll be getting to that in a sec

pedit: hi Eve (･ω<)

This is kind of the problem, there's a knot in Skitter/Titus/Eve that I can't work out. It feels abundantly clear that there's at least one scum in there, but every time I start trying to talk myself into a scumread on one slot it doesn't really make sense when hunting for a partner.

[GuiltyLion]

maybe it's skitter+Guilty

he mislynches me today and then just has to lynch skitter and Titus doesn't matter which order to give him the win

tbf i do think that gl's posting in the last day or so including his progression on you is a bit Not Great

why do I fake such sloppy 180s and constant backtracks/changes as scum

like if I'm scum I just death tunnel and people don't get paranoid or suspect me cause I'm ~consistent~.

this is town confusion and angst about what feels like a really difficult solve

[GuiltyLion]

also every time I start to suspect anyone they start shading me which doesn't help at all with the paranoia

like Skitter keeps trying to say I'm a townread but then giving me grief for acryon vote or voting her

Eve randomly starts calling me out when I reconsider whether she could be scum

Titus is on me all game yet finding ways to not vote me

I'm definitely being used for false associatives but I can't find a way to distinguish between that and genuine worry about me being scum

MT I kinda think the way you've treated my slot with a mix of suspicion/mindmeld is the most natural

[GuiltyLion]

i would never ever kill auro as scum just fyi

how have you let scum!skitter convince you guilty? you know what she's capable of

the nightkill points simultaneously towards skitter scum and me town

like come on seriously

like these three posts from Eve felt panicky and should clearly put to rest ideas of a GL/Eve team, if she's scum this isn't theater this is her trying to buddy me and spare herself from my vote

[GuiltyLion]

I dunno I really want to see where Limit's head is at again

I'm not gonna just sheep but the past day has just been back and forth with Eve/Skit which hasn't felt especially productive, and Limit/Molla feel like the only slots I can truly trust

Titus is such a difficult slot to read, there are those moments where she does feel pure but she also posts these terrible pushes or convenient jump-ins and the game state feels like it makes the most sense when she's scum, since nobody is trying to lynch her all that hard right now.

[GuiltyLion]

i don't actually understand why you voted me today

it's mostly me clearly being wrong on my townreads somewhere given how the game was playing out and the Auro NK, which I did call out at one point

[GuiltyLion]

I really don't know who Eve's partner is

given how MT and Skit and Limit are talking, it's clear I'm to be the next lynch if Eve flips scum

which is fine and I actually would insist on being lynched first in that case but godspeed to whoever gets into 3p LYLO

[GuiltyLion]

Ah. GL/Eve would be cornered right now. If GL can't get skitts lynched today and Eve is lynched, he has no path to winning. At best he can mislynch Atara then he loses in 3p LYLO. Literally the only way they can claw their way back in is getting a skitts mislynch -> Atara mislynch.

why would I back down on skitter at this point though

I'm pretty sure I did that before you even replaced in

[GuiltyLion]

also every time I start to suspect anyone they start shading me which doesn't help at all with the paranoia

like Skitter keeps trying to say I'm a townread but then giving me grief for acryon vote or voting her

Eve randomly starts calling me out when I reconsider whether she could be scum

Titus is on me all game yet finding ways to not vote me

I'm definitely being used for false associatives but I can't find a way to distinguish between that and genuine worry about me being scum

MT I kinda think the way you've treated my slot with a mix of suspicion/mindmeld is the most natural

what do you think of my reasons for why you could be scum with skitter?

lemme me know why they're bad/random

on this - I don't think any of the skitter/me distancing needed to happen at all today, as Skitter herself said

like if I'm scum with skitter I just hard tunnel Titus or you and I think our team wins that

I don't think skit and I are in a bad position in 5p at that point either

no need at all to dally around with getting Skitter to L-1

I also think I should be pretty individually townread, the only reason I'm scumread here is because I make a lot of sense as your partner

[GuiltyLion]

I wanna say Eve/Titus, why are we ruling out that team again?

I think a lot of Titus' play feels very centered around Eve flipping scum and I think she makes a lot of sense as a busser

[GuiltyLion]

It makes a lot of sense, I think

because you (MT), Skit, and myself all feel genuinely confused in a way I think is hard for scum to fake

whereas Titus just has these convictions that she's pushing regardless of when the evidence does or doesn't suit

and I think Auro was right with the Saus slip and that would be a good explanation for him being killed too

[GuiltyLion]

Given the game state though, from my POV if Eve is scum then her partner is either Molla or definitely bussing hard

also I don't think Titus actually pushed Eve all that hard? She was always pushing me first and foremost, then compromised on Acryon last minute. At what point was she 'lolbussing' at the point where Eve was in danger of lynch? I'ma check the VCs again maybe I'm not remembering

[GuiltyLion]

actually these VCs are pretty interesting - Eve seems to hop from Titus to Acryon whenever the Titus lynch is looking most viable

it's true that Titus is pretty consistently on Eve but I think it may have been clear there was enough resistance to Eve from my slot and other that it wasn't going through, especially once Atari was hard pushing the acryon case

Votecount 2.4

Target	Wagon
Karnage (2)	skitter30 (1312), GuiltyLion (1313)
Titus (2)	acryon (1427), BBmolla (1447)
skitter30 (1)	Eve (1317)
Not Voting (4)	Titus, The Limit Does Not Exist, Karnage, Auro

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. The Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2020-05-14 17:47:59).

Votecount 2.5

Target	Wagon
Karnage (2)	skitter30 (1312), GuiltyLion (1313)
Titus (2)	acryon (1427), BBmolla (1447)
skitter30 (1)	Eve (1317)
GuiltyLion (1)	Titus (1514)
Not Voting (3)	The Limit Does Not Exist, Karnage, Auro

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. The Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2020-05-14 17:47:59).

Votecount 2.6

Target	Wagon
Atarashi Hajimari (2)	skitter30 (1312), GuiltyLion (1313)
Titus (2)	acryon (1427), BBmolla (1447)
skitter30 (1)	Eve (1317)
GuiltyLion (1)	Titus (1514)
Not Voting (3)	The Limit Does Not Exist, Atarashi Hajimari, Auro

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. The Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2020-05-14 17:47:59).

Votecount 2.7

Target	Wagon
Titus (3)	The Limit Does Not Exist (1635), Eve (1847), BBmolla (1903)
acryon (2)	Atarashi Hajimari (1660), Auro (1929)
GuiltyLion (1)	Titus (1514)
Not Voting (3)	GuiltyLion (1780), acryon (1820), skitter30 (1877)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. The Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2020-05-14 17:47:59).

Votecount 2.8

Target	Wagon
acryon (3)	Atarashi Hajimari (1660), Auro (1929), Eve (1956)
Titus (2)	The Limit Does Not Exist (1635), BBmolla (1903)
Eve (2)	acryon (1978), Titus (1979)
Not Voting (2)	GuiltyLion (1780), skitter30 (1877)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. The Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2020-05-14 17:47:59).

Votecount 2.9

Target	Wagon
acryon (3)	Atarashi Hajimari (1660), Auro (1929), Eve (1956)
Eve (3)	acryon (1978), Titus (1979), skitter30 (2014)
Titus (2)	The Limit Does Not Exist (1635), BBmolla (1903)
Not Voting (1)	GuiltyLion (1780)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. The Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2020-05-14 17:47:59).

Votecount 2.10

Target	Wagon
Eve (3)	acryon (1978), Titus (1979), skitter30 (2014)
Titus (3)	The Limit Does Not Exist (1635), BBmolla (1903), Auro (2034)
acryon (2)	Atarashi Hajimari (1660), Eve (1956)
Not Voting (1)	GuiltyLion (1780)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. The Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2020-05-14 17:47:59).

Votecount 2.11

Target	Wagon
Eve (3)	acryon (1978), Titus (1979), skitter30 (2014)
acryon (3)	Atarashi Hajimari (1660), Eve (1956), GuiltyLion (2094)
Titus (2)	The Limit Does Not Exist (1635), BBmolla (1903)
Not Voting (1)	Auro (2051)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. The Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2020-05-14 17:47:59).

Votecount 2.12

Target	Wagon
acryon (4)	Atarashi Hajimari (1660), Eve (1956), GuiltyLion (2094), Auro (2104)
Eve (3)	acryon (1978), Titus (1979), skitter30 (2014)
Titus (2)	The Limit Does Not Exist (1635), BBmolla (1903)
Not Voting (0)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. The Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2020-05-14 17:47:59).

Votecount 2.Final

Target	Wagon
acryon (5)	Atarashi Hajimari (1660), Eve (1956), GuiltyLion (2094), Auro (2104), Titus (2129)
Eve (2)	acryon (1978), skitter30 (2014)
Titus (2)	The Limit Does Not Exist (1635), BBmolla (1903)
Not Voting (0)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. acryon has been lynched.

[GuiltyLion]

maybe the reason i don't make sense with anyone is because i'm town

did you ever think of that?

yeah I did and that's why I was pushing Skitter for a lot of the day as well

like come on

[GuiltyLion]

MT what do you think of Auro's argument about Rex's inconsistency between his reasons for backing off of Allo?

[GuiltyLion]

if he's arguing the fact he doesn't want to risk mislynching town and then being the game losing mislynch in 3p lylo - that logic doesn't check out either since you still have 1 lynch that could hit scum + 1 that is probably you but you can still have a chance of convincing the others

no I'd really rather die and have people look at all my thoughts and engagements with knowledge that I'm town, I think that'd give us a higher chance of winning at this point assuming you are scum

[GuiltyLion]

idk it doesn't feel likely that town is going to allow me to lynch both Titus and Skitter (which is what it would take to be auto FMPOV rn) and if they have to choose correctly between Titus/Skitter then I wanna be dead first so they can look through all my interactions with both slots

[GuiltyLion]

and the same thing goes for MT as well, but I'm kinda wanting to go back to calling MT town again because a lot of their solving here has felt very genuine and unnecessary if they're scum AND I do still think Atari's play was way beyond his scum range and rereading his ISO the other day reminded me of that

[GuiltyLion]

and the same thing goes for MT as well, but I'm kinda wanting to go back to calling MT town again because a lot of their solving here has felt very genuine and unnecessary if they're scum AND I do still think Atari's play was way beyond his scum range and rereading his ISO the other day reminded me of that

Are you down to Titus/Skitts and Eve/Titus now then? Are there any other significant possibilities you're considering?

My reads kinda want you to be town too, so if i were to assume you're town, then those would be my last options as well

yeah I think those two solves make the most sense to me

I think Eve/Skitter is definitely 1T1S in some fashion

and I think I find Eve individually a liiiittle bit scummier than Skitter (though I have been waffling on this constantly) and her lynch is more supported by the Townreads so I'm good with it at this point

the only possibility that really scares me is scum!Molla but I'm in the same boat of like, there's not really any good reason to think he's scum and there have been a few moments where he's felt super genuine

did you respond to my question about Auro's case on Rex regarding him suggesting he saw the soft then later denying that he saw the soft?

[GuiltyLion]

I also think the longer this day has gone on the less it's felt like Titus is really here trying to solve with the rest of the homies

like she just pops in and makes these one off comments with little to no re-evaluation or acknowledging of new content, her last push on Eve was super disingenuous and she didn't acknowledge how she misread the post, Skit at least does feel like she's been engaged throughout

[GuiltyLion]

given both of your solves/team combinations Morning + Guilty you should always be lynching Titus before me so why aren't you?

I'd be fine with a Titus lynch here I think, my only concern is I feel like if she does flip green then I easily might get lynched in 5p for the loss. And the whole day I've been feeling like there's exactly one scum in Skit/Eve so resolving that ASAP helps with the rest of the solve.

Why aren't you as worried about Skit/Guilty as you seemed a few pages ago? Doesn't lynching a green!Titus into green!Eve lose the game for you there?

[GuiltyLion]

can the people who are strongly townrading bbmolla kinda explain why that's a thing because i never really got it and i think he's the most likely eve partner

This is fair, I gotta hop out again for a bit but I'll try to get to this either tonight or tomorrow. Off the top of my head it's mostly the D1 laissez-faire attitude of like trusting the townies in Limit/Skit/Myself to solve, and the indignance at the acryon wagon feeling genuine. But I can go back and try to do a more rigorous re-analysis there

[GuiltyLion]

I'm good, hammer away. I do still owe skitter a BBMolla revisit but I figure that can wait until tomorrow

[GuiltyLion]

i'm never scum with GuiltyLion here you can see my frustration with him was genuine so please don't lynch him tomorrow - he doesn't deserve that

[GuiltyLion]

is this theater hmmMMM

I still think Titus being so dead-set on scum!Eve loosely fits a bussing play tho I'm not certain

Skit is basically locktown now I think

[GuiltyLion]

Titus why did you open today by voting Eve instead of pushing me when you've consistently said I'm your top scumread

[GuiltyLion]

also you all have fun in the PT we didn't really use ours N2

[GuiltyLion]

oh wait there's no PT on a scum lynch is there

[GuiltyLion]

So FMPOV this wagon was either all town or Titus is scum:

Votecount 2.Final

Target	Wagon
acryon (5)	Atarashi Hajimari (1660), Eve (1956), GuiltyLion (2094), Auro (2104), Titus (2129)
Eve (2)	acryon (1978), skitter30 (2014)
Titus (2)	The Limit Does Not Exist (1635), BBmolla (1903)
Not Voting (0)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. acryon has been lynched.

And this wagon is two scum:

Votecount 3.Final

Target	Wagon
Eve (4)	Tiger Shark (2145), skitter30 (2147), BBmolla (2413), The Limit Does Not Exist (2524)
Not Voting (3)	Morning Tweet, GuiltyLion (2286), Eve (2514)

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Eve has been lynched.

[GuiltyLion]

Titus I wanna know why you said earlier that scum!skitter was competent and carried a game, and why that isn't what she might be doing here

and also I wanna know who your VCA says my partner is now, if you're still going to push this

[GuiltyLion]

Molla idk

Titus/Skitter
Titus/Molla

feel like my two potential solves right now

[GuiltyLion]

also i think gl may have scumslipped in twilight

what, because I forgot that there's no PT on a scum flip?

This is a really shitty push lol

if I'm scum and I know Eve is flipping town,

I would have bee aware that there will be a PT and this knowledge would be something only scum have

, and I don't comment about it at all

[GuiltyLion]

also if I'm scum and skitter/Eve are both town, why do I even bother to play D3 the way I did

like that's just pointless effort and way beyond my scum range for a situation where scum is ahead no matter who gets lynched

[GuiltyLion]

one thing I'm wondering whether it may be a problem with the Titus/Skitter solve is I would have expected Titus to accuse me of possibly being scum with skitter, but she's all in on town!skitter even now

surely if we flip scum!skitter today she would be thinking about how to handle that f3?

[GuiltyLion]

I prefer Skitter over Titus today I think

skitter being cw to Eve and the way the wagon flipped over to Eve is indicative of skit scum

also the paranoia about Limit reads kinda fake

[GuiltyLion]

also I think the post-Allo NKs in this game should exonerate me unless you want to say it's all WIFOM specifically so I can make this argument now in LYLO

Auro was townreading me and pushing Skit
MT was coming around to townreading me, we just closely worked together in a prior game, and was the only other person off wagon yesterday
I've been strongly townreading Limit all game

if I'm scum I'm giving myself a much harder F5 than a hypothetical one of like, Auro, Molla, MT, myself, Titus

[GuiltyLion]

Titus yesterday you were saying you felt your own slot had to vote first, what changed between then and now?

[GuiltyLion]

GL, I am trying to reset on you. Please don't get all defensive.

I'm more defensive about Skitter than you rn but fair

[GuiltyLion]

GL is very hard for me to read I think I’m doing a GL iso today

I'll be here if you wanna talk too

[GuiltyLion]

Votecount 2.Final

Target	Wagon
acryon (5)	Atarashi Hajimari (1660), Eve (1956), GuiltyLion (2094), Auro (2104), Titus (2129)
Eve (2)	acryon (1978), skitter30 (2014)
Titus (2)	The Limit Does Not Exist (1635), BBmolla (1903)
Not Voting (0)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. acryon has been lynched.

Titus can you envision a universe where Acryon was lynched and it was all town?

cause if not, we're destined for a 1v1 at some point this game

[GuiltyLion]

the Titus/Molla world scares me cause I think we lose there given Skit's intro here today

[GuiltyLion]

I prefer Skitter over Titus today I think

skitter being cw to Eve and the way the wagon flipped over to Eve is indicative of skit scum

also the paranoia about Limit reads kinda fake

yeah disregard this post

I think if it's Titus/Molla we're currently losing and playing right into what scum wanted

and there's no way Acryon was all town

[GuiltyLion]

Skitter - question for you though, if you're town and I'm scum, why don't I just push for your lynch significantly harder yesterday

-you're a harder lynch and a bigger threat
-if you're lynched it's very easy to chain that into Eve mislynch for the win in 5p
-if Eve is lynched instead of you anyway, gives me a convenient trajectory into LYLO, instead of whatever this mess here is

[GuiltyLion]

why wouldn't Skitter consider Titus/Molla on opening today, if she's going so far as to consider Limit scum

why is Skitter still effectively convinced Titus is town

[GuiltyLion]

like the entire foundation for Skitter's Titus townread was she didn't think Eve/Titus were lolbussing eachother

Eve flips town

where's the re-evaluation on Titus

[GuiltyLion]

hey Smart - what's the latest from Smarter? She hasn't really posted much at all in the past game day or two, can we get her back in the thread

[GuiltyLion]

I was saying Titus has to be scum for there to be scum on that wagon

I still think Titus/Skit is a possibility too

[GuiltyLion]

Smart - why do you think it's unlikely? Strictly looking at the VCs, I don't see anything ruling it out

[GuiltyLion]

I think Titus/Skitter is probably more likely, but it means Titus/Skitter just all in committed to hardtownreading eachother and that still feels a little strange given the gamestate and the likelihood one of them gets lynched, I don't usually see that from scum

[GuiltyLion]

yeah fair enough I proooobably shouldn't indulge in paranoia there especially given what I realized/said about Skitter bizarrely not re-evaluating on Titus at all

[GuiltyLion]

sorry 4 prod, felt like the whole game was on V/LA

I think I'd rather lynch Titus first for the following reasons:
- I think there must be scum on Acryon wagon
- Misrepresented me as I described in 1874, as we're down to 5p I have to think this is strongly indicative
- Saus slip (suggested he saw the soft, then later denied that he saw the soft) caught by Auro

[GuiltyLion]

also i think gl may have scumslipped in twilight

what, because I forgot that there's no PT on a scum flip?

This is a really shitty push lol

if I'm scum and I know Eve is flipping town,

I would have bee aware that there will be a PT and this knowledge would be something only scum have

, and I don't comment about it at all

i mean, scum mess up sometimes too ...

my point though is that if I were scum I'd be aware that this is a potential way I could mess up, because I'd be much more aware of the fact that I know Eve's alignment and I also know that there

is

going to be a neighborhood created. I wouldn't be firing off reckless takes about a neighborhood because I'd be aware that this could give away knowledge of Eve's alignment.

The alternate explanation where I'm town is I believed Eve was scum and simply forgot how the neighborhoods work, which in my mind makes a lot more sense as to why I'd post anything the way I did. If I am scum I don't even twilight post, I'm pretty sure I can back this with meta if needed.

[GuiltyLion]

sorry 4 prod, felt like the whole game was on V/LA

I think I'd rather lynch Titus first for the following reasons:
- I think there must be scum on Acryon wagon
- Misrepresented me as I described in 1874, as we're down to 5p I have to think this is strongly indicative
- Saus slip (suggested he saw the soft, then later denied that he saw the soft) caught by Auro

who is Titus's partner

I prefer Skitter over Titus today I think

skitter being cw to Eve and the way the wagon flipped over to Eve is indicative of skit scum

also the paranoia about Limit reads kinda fake

- elaborate on why the wagon is indicative of scum!me
- and you're not questioning why mt dies over town!limit here? why auro dies over town!limit here? like one of the two i can understand, both it's starting to become weird

you were the counterwagon to Eve. Did you address my post about why I don't just lynch you if I'm scum, and I think that logic applies to literally any scumteam where both you and Eve are town

I am sorta questioning it but I don't think it makes Limit more likely scum. IMO it either indicates that
-scum think Limit will vote the desired mislynch today or
-scum is Skit/Titus feeling cornered and hoping a weird NK as a Hail Mary play may help steer 5p elsewhere

[GuiltyLion]

whoops, accidentally quoted the Molla post. I'll get to that shortly

[GuiltyLion]

Skitter - question for you though, if you're town and I'm scum, why don't I just push for your lynch significantly harder yesterday

-you're a harder lynch and a bigger threat
-if you're lynched it's very easy to chain that into Eve mislynch for the win in 5p
-if Eve is lynched instead of you anyway, gives me a convenient trajectory into LYLO, instead of whatever this mess here is

this might be a weird question but do you think you can mislynch me?

I think if I were scum I could easily mislynch you here yeah, especially with Molla. GL/Titus maybe it'd be dicier but I think we all agree GL/Titus isn't a plausible pairing

[GuiltyLion]

No prod pls

We should lynch whichever of the two of them is more likely scum, just in case something changes, even though it probably won't matter.

-Smart

does this not scare anyone that me/titus might be tvt ??? ^

I'm far more scared of TvS tbh, it seems impossible to me to think that both of you would be town given how the game has played out

I think the only reason I'd reconsider on Limit is the fact that Lilith hasn't posted in forever. I don't wanna push on that too hard because I do agree with Smart that RL is important, but I think she has a harder time keeping up appearances as scum. She did feel hella town early game though, so idk, I just haven't revisited it and don't feel it's likely enough to revisit atm

[GuiltyLion]

is that not a red flag that we're both town and that scum don't care who get lynched ?

I really don't agree with this! I think if you are both town it's easier for scum to pick one of you and fake conviction! I'm usually more assertive/pushy as scum because that's so much easier to fake than genuine uncertainty.

Why be wishy-washy when to scum it literally does not matter? Why not just tunnel one and call it good?

[GuiltyLion]

This last post by GuiltyLion has me thinking he might be town, which poses a huge problem for me.

If GL was scum and Skitter town, which is my current thinking, there's little reason for GL to push for a Titus lynch today. He could merely join Limit and BBMolla on a Skitter lynch today.

The only way that push benefits GL scum is if GL is scum with Skitter. My lynch would accelerate the victory or he could bus and claim victory tomorrow. However, GL's posting only makes sense if he's scum with Skitter.

If GL is scum with Skitter, then that poses a different sort of problem. That means both Limit and Molla are town and both have me as a higher partner than GL.

Of course, this doesn't factor in GL town. If GL is town and Skitter is town, then by PoE the team must be Limit/Molla. I haven't liked that team for a few reasons. Namely that none of them actually encouraged my GL push earlier in the game.

So that leads me to Skitter being scum, but I hate that conclusion too.

Basically, I feel like we're fucked but I refuse to accept that either.

Why do you hate the conclusion of Skitter scum?

What are your thoughts on Skit/Molla, is that a viable team via VCA? I think assuming you're town then that's the solve, and may then explain why Skit has started vaguely shading Molla w/out actually pushing there and possibly why Limit is alive.

Which brings me to Molla's question towards me, it's... actually pretty weird? Molla literally just said he thinks it's Skit/Titus, why does he then ask me who I think is Titus' partner when:

- it is clear throughout my play over the past few days that I would say Skit
- he claims to share that solve?

[GuiltyLion]

Limit - who would you rather lynch in Skitter/Titus? Are there any fears in your mind of a Skit/Molla or Titus/Molla team? I know you just said their posting has been "very towny", but can you actually detail on that for me? Which posts do you see as impossible to come from scum?

[GuiltyLion]

The Skit/Titus mutual townread is the knot that makes this whole game a mess

It has steered us away from lynching either slot for several days I think and cornered us into thinking they must be aligned bc otherwise their mutual reads on each other really

do not make sense

in a neutral view of the game.

Titus last post reconsidering me is kinda hitting my paranoia buttons of whether it really is Skit/Molla

[GuiltyLion]

one thing I'm not really getting, after sleeping on it, is why my post yesterday apparently caused Titus to completely 180 and see me as town

[GuiltyLion]

If GL was scum and Skitter town, which is my current thinking, there's little reason for GL to push for a Titus lynch today. He could merely join Limit and BBMolla on a Skitter lynch today.

The only way that push benefits GL scum is if GL is scum with Skitter. My lynch would accelerate the victory or he could bus and claim victory tomorrow. However, GL's posting only makes sense if he's scum with Skitter.

If GL is scum with Skitter, then that poses a different sort of problem. That means both Limit and Molla are town and both have me as a higher partner than GL.

this just doesn't make sense because if I'm scum and Titus is town I just push her and win here, regardless of who my partner is? Does Titus think she's a harder lynch than skitter here?

[GuiltyLion]

damn, gg everyone! Very well played by Limit/Skitter!! The theater between you two on D1 was perfectly pulled off, I independently lock-towned Lilith from it and a pairing between you two basically never once crossed my mind after that. I think we coulda got skitter eventually today maybe but hard to see us winning in 3p, the whole town was p much suckered. this is definitely a game for me to learn from for sure

[GuiltyLion]

funny story, about halfway through this game I realized that the basis of my townread on GL was based on literally nothing - I went to go look for games we had played together so I could "meta" him and show why I felt that he sounded town, and there were like 2 games max that we had played together. luckily GL didn't realize

I feel like I remember playing more games with you than that too! Maybe I just read games of yours though

I didn't start to seriously consider it (clearly) but the last day phase of this game I was remembering the Halos & Horns Hydra that you were scum in for Word Sneak mafia with RC, where I felt similarly you kinda stopped posting after a certain point

[GuiltyLion]

also scum thread is a great read

there was a newbie game I played a year or two ago where my partner and I had such a difficult time coordinating a quick hammer that a T-T 5p LYLO vote lasted like over an RL day before we finally pulled it off

[GuiltyLion]

also the postcount thing is real

I feel no hard feelings about this loss, town just got straight up beat by two excellent scum performances

[GuiltyLion]

we gotta play a game sometime where you're not scum! this is 4 straight games now!

[GuiltyLion]

oh my thoughts on the neighborhoods - in addition to some other reasons people gave for not using them too heavily, I also just usually kinda treat night phases (as town) as mental breaks from the game. it's hard/demoralizing after surprise townflips to then go into a neighborhood and keep playing super hard, and usually I enjoy being able to kinda reset and not think about that particular game for a day or two