Open 778: Nightless Vanilla [Game Over!]

[humaneatingmonkey]

Firebringer, what would change your mind about Isis? LYLO?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't think GC is scum. only time i would open up the 4 for reconsideration is if those are last 4 and game isn't over.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Fire, I can at least do Elements before Deimos.

[humaneatingmonkey]

But you need to reconsider Isis as soon as possible

[humaneatingmonkey]

Aight fine. I give up. Let's just get this over with. I'm just happy that I did my part.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Firebringer, let's lynch Elements first.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Ya'll will feel real stupid when I end up right.

[humaneatingmonkey]

They’ve hard buddied each other. I don’t see a same scum alignment there.

This is not what I've seen in my re-read.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Isis has consistently vouched for Elements as town.

Also not true. It seems as if you didn't even read my posts.

But whatever.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm not gonna be convincing anyone here. I get it. The game is lost.

I'm just going to continue my re-read until I catch up to 128, and collect as many information as I can.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hopefully one or two of you decides to actually listen to me and actually discuss the meat of my posts.

But if nothing else, I get a big I told you so at the end and that's also nice.

[humaneatingmonkey]

You cleared Isis through VCA but VCA aren't tell-alls. VCAs are a tool. If all game, you have the information that Isis has played the bus-distance game, the not being on any mislynch wagon is TOO convenient. And it's something that happens — I already proved this to Looker.

[humaneatingmonkey]

You expect me to believe that town won't normally find themselves on a mislynch wagon in a nightless? You know this is not the whole story.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Is that really a hard town stance? That's a wishy-washy stance. Later on in the post, she admits she doesn't understand how to townread Elements exactly. So why does she based on meta again?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't agree. Strategies change when PoEs change.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Also, I don't believe associations are as simplistic as that. Scum can afford to hide behind layers of WIFOM. I prefer to catch scum through POV and motivation.

[humaneatingmonkey]

It's not a huge risk if you keep on parroting that your scum game involves a lot of bus. There isn't one way to play a game with your partners. Scum here has 3 other partners. They can re-position as they like.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm willing to test my theory by lynching Elements, at least. But I think if we never lynch Isis here, we won't lynch her ever.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Claiming a fellow scum is town based on the magic voodoo of meta is a huuuuuge risk. Not impossible but just not likely.

I can see myself doing this. I 100% think players more skilled than I am can pull it off.

GC, I appreciate you for not dismissing me. You're not being difficult. We just don't agree, and you're starting a dialogue because you want to build consensus. I appreciate that. But can you still comment on my reads? I feel as though you have decided that Isis is an impossibility based on VCA and how she dealt with the Elements slot. I just think there's an equally plausible scum!planation for them.

[humaneatingmonkey]

obviously.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm a noob boy who's currently out of my league.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Like. Is there any way I can get you to opine about who might be an Isis-scum teammate other than Elements, or is that your final answer?

Sure — you? But I can't pin you as scum for D1, D2, D3, D4, D5. I have a vibe, but vibes are useless. The worst thing that you've done is lynch votato even though Norwee was still your top scumread and you had the majority to lynch her.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I even re-read with the bias that you'll be scum and Isis town but lo and behold you're town and Isis is scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Let's lynch Elements first.

[humaneatingmonkey]

And if Elements flip town, you can forever ignore my reads.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'll just play this as a +1 to Firebringer

[humaneatingmonkey]

i rectified that situation, and you can't say my reads are bad forever. also, i wont blame you because you're my scumread.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I just didn't like that you called me abrasive.

I just call it out as I see them. If you don't like people calling you abrasive, you need to be less condescending and mean-spirited.

Apology accepted.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Sometimes he fractures his scumrange and you can know he's town. Usually it won't happen. I will give him X days for that to happen and if it doesn't happen we kill him by default.

Contrast with Clemency which is just never going to spew in any direction ever.

Isis, has Elements fractured his scumrange?

[humaneatingmonkey]

#659 - Elements - E - Voted Clemency for their 'atrocious entrance'. Note that this wasn't the general suspicion about Clemency around this part of the gamestate.
#674, 675 - Elements - S - Flailing
#787 - Norwee on GC - E - I think this is Norwee framing GC, which likely makes GC town. He didn't do this with Deimos, Elements, Firebringer. Just GC.
#792 to 807 - GC vs Norwee - TvS - Not a puppet show. Each posts attempts to expose the other further, and it's happening outside the scum agenda to bus Cycle Men.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Elements has probably exited his scumrange but not in a way that makes me feel confident and bold. Especially when I have too many townreads.

When?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Well I guess that really only applies to your flailing characterization.

How is 659 AI?

The "E"s are supporting evidence and I want you to do what you're doing with this post with my Isis posts.

What looks like I've already decided the alignment? Is that not objectively flailing?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Looker has real reads.
Deimos has real reads.
GC has real reads.
Firebringer has real reads.

Who doesn't have real reads?
You know it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Yeah, the guy who thinks it's Isis + Elements and have been hardpushing it is the person with no real reads.

[humaneatingmonkey]

who's scum team Elements and why?

[humaneatingmonkey]

time to define a position, team

[humaneatingmonkey]

why is hem and deimos scum, Elements?

[humaneatingmonkey]

explain your thought process from here:

Isis
Human/Fire
Looker
Demios
GC

to here:

hem and demios

[humaneatingmonkey]

I even re-read with the bias that you'll be scum and Isis town but lo and behold you're town and Isis is scum.

stop buddying gc

gc is the towniest player in the game at this point

[humaneatingmonkey]

come on guys. i dont know what the fuck i should do to knock in your coconuts that it's Isis + Elements. the text, context, subtext is all there you just need to pay attention.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Don't hide behind VCA and answer my questions.

[humaneatingmonkey]

There's a HUGE possibility that all scum were voting Cycle Men during #725 because Cycle Men was NOT worried about getting lynched.

[humaneatingmonkey]

oh no im simply not worried about getting lynched

[humaneatingmonkey]

Go here and Ctrl+F to #1155 to #1171

This tells you the story of how it's possible that scum was all in on that wagon.

[humaneatingmonkey]

So what happened with the GC and the Looker read?
"You can't see how unbelievably wrong you are?" Are you that overconfident that Isis is town?
Is Isis the best at reading you if she fails to articulate why you're town/scum based on meta and if she admitted she didn't remember how to?

[humaneatingmonkey]

so why isn't Elements D1 ML'd here, according to you?
and how can you be confident in something that you can't even describe, if you're town and you don't know the alignments of people?
and why does Elements, if town, believe that you're town?
and how confident can you really be in Elements' meta if he's self-aware of it?

Y'all are drawing big confidence conclusions from information that does not exist in this game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm town. Isis' alignment doesn't matter for that statement to be true.

So is Isis scum?

So am I wrong about Isis?

They changed. I'm much more fluid with my reads than anyone else I've encountered which people seem to view as scummy but I think it's the opposite. Scum know stuff and know what they want. Town know nothing and have to react to what happens. My town meta is very very much the latter.

Oh I don't doubt that you're fluid. I just want to you to describe the process of change.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Keep scum-spewing, team.

[humaneatingmonkey]

That's not remotely what I said

Okay so why am I not wrong about you and Isis being town. You had to emphasize that Isis' alignment had nothing to do with it. If in your POV she's town, why would you still need to say that?

and how confident can you really be in Elements' meta if he's self-aware of it?

Meta exists because of the intrinsic difference int one's mindset when play town or scum. There's also the face that I get lynched day 1 so much as town. Why would I want to emulate that as scum?

Well in this game you were never mislynched as D1. I don't think that matters though. You don't believe scum can emulate their town meta, especially if self-aware?

To the audience who's watching: The points Elements and Isis are fighting here are just hangnails to the body of points that I've made about them.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Gut and how I feel at the time. People attacking me makes me think they're more scum. People defending me makes me think they're more town. I do very little analysis.

Did GC, Looker, and Deimos ever push you?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Why didn't you scumread Firebringer?

[humaneatingmonkey]

You don't have real reads.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Fine I'll try to make my case more concise

Give me time.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Really weird, but not impossible.

What do you think was the flaw in your VCA defense for Norwee?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Okay but I have to sleep though so no lynches until I complete this case.

[humaneatingmonkey]

waiting for the weekend so i can do the Isis case consider me half V/LA

[humaneatingmonkey]

Deimos, aren't you a bit suspicious that Isis or I have pocketed you?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hi, I'm here. I'm casually reading the thread and I haven't started the Isis case. I've been really busy.

I'm just here to say that Elements didn't always have this "I'm OMGUS-ing and this is what I do as town" mentality in this game. I've covered some of these behavior in my re-read. Elements feels like he has always received coaching, and he flails often.

See:

Spoiler: The Back & Forth

VOTE: Elements

VOTE: Elements

took you long enough, why so hesitant?

What?

Oh, I thought I was voting you before voting Cycle Men.

You've been voting votata most of the game with me, that's the first time you've voted me. why you not keeping track of your vote?

This interests you why?

so I can discredit your case against me

why are the merits of my case contingent on whether or not i keep track of my votes? walk me through here.

It's not your not keeping track of your vote, it's that you were voting the same as me despite thinking I'm scum and not changing your vote until I did

did you vote cycle men as a reaction test?

I'm 100% sure Elements is scum

did you vote cycle men as a reaction test?

no, but it acted as one because you changed your vote

did you vote cycle men as a reaction test?

no, but it acted as one because you changed your vote

scrap that
no it was not a reaction test

I'm 100% sure Elements is scum

what do you think about votata?

So where did it bring you?

Votata was my scumread going in the day then after I reconciled that his POV could make sense, I dropped it. I have not if he is scum or he is town, and I don't think he's my day 1 lynch.

What's your read on me right now?

Mislead town

but it's a lean not a strong read

You said it was a reaction test, and then not a reaction test, so my understanding is your vote makes you think you got an alignment indicative read on me.

What is it?

Also, who do you think is misleading me?

Also, who do you think is misleading me?

Maybe blinded is a better way of putting it. I think you're misleading yourself

You said it was a reaction test, and then not a reaction test, so my understanding is your vote makes you think you got an alignment indicative read on me.

What is it?

I don't think you 100% think I'm scum. Did my change of vote increase how scummy you think I am?

I don't think you 100% think I'm scum. Did my change of vote increase how scummy you think I am?

Yes, especially since your vote reason was his entrance which was super non-AI. If Cycle Men is town here, you're definitely just wanting to hop on that wagon. But since you don't understand the town reasons to join the wagon, you just make up your own.

if you do that it's just going to be an inevitable cycle men lynch. Everyone wants a lynch and cycle men has the most so the people on it are most likely just gonna leave their votes there adn wait for everyone to panic move onto him.
I'm happy for a cycle or human lynch but i'd prefer the latter
VOTE: human

scrap that, human is pretty locktown for me now
VOTE: cycle

scrap that, human is pretty locktown for me now

this swing happened because i've just looked through the votecounts and human has been the only one to vote me so far this game. If he were scum I'd have expected him to get his buddies to at least push me as I've so lynchable. that hasn't happened even slightly so human = town

scrap that, human is pretty locktown for me now

this swing happened because i've just looked through the votecounts and human has been the only one to vote me so far this game. If he were scum I'd have expected him to get his buddies to at least push me as I've so lynchable. that hasn't happened even slightly so human = town

what
you've been considered a scumread by multiple people for a long time this game

but no one has voted me or rlly pushed for my lynch except human.

[humaneatingmonkey]

#997 - #1010 shows discernment for who is scum or town based on his own reads, and not just who votes for him. this is not the Elements that we are seeing here. Either he abruptly changed his personality overnight, or he has been receiving coaching. This level of inconsistency is just another evidence of scum!Elements for me.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Maybe if he flips scum, y'all can give me a solid and lynch Isis. If she flips town, you can lynch me. I don't expect you to agree, but I'm gonna come back with a case anyway.

[humaneatingmonkey]

town disillusioned with my read on him

he doesn't have real reads.

[humaneatingmonkey]

if elements flips scum we can revisit isis.

Yes thank you oh my god

[humaneatingmonkey]

But also this feels like a trap if it's Isis+Firebringer. Firebringer is the weakest townread I had when I was re-reading.

but whatever

[humaneatingmonkey]

you know what

[humaneatingmonkey]

[youtube]https://youtu.be/yw-PFWJDObI?t=101[/youtube]

[humaneatingmonkey]

I know what I have to do but I don't know if I have the strength to do it

[humaneatingmonkey]

Okay then I don't have to do what I know I have to do

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Elements oh the vote has reset

[humaneatingmonkey]

i dont follow as well firebringer... i've townread you all game

[humaneatingmonkey]

Isis is pushing FB because she thinks it would lead to a lynch. Looker, Deimos, Elements + her.

She doesn't have real reads and she is openwolfing.

I also don't believe that she is "demotivated" by my scumreading of her. Nobody else wants to lynch her. Why would that bother her?

Wise up, town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Looker is town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I mostly feel like HEM is town who is gamethrowing by scumreading me and it's a bit dispiriting.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Lynch Isis omggggggggggggggggg

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Isis

[humaneatingmonkey]

the answer is they've planned the bus streets ahead. Isis dragged Norwegian along up until Day 4 (or Day 5?) despite scumreading her.

[humaneatingmonkey]

why would Isis-scum switch from Cycle to Norwegian as part of HEM/Isis/Ali push?

She is also self-proclaimed Queen of bus so I don't know why you would read into her associations, and not

literally everything else

[humaneatingmonkey]

and bussing doesn't undermine that information at all?

[humaneatingmonkey]

you guys don't get it. i'm cool with being lynched only if it will confirm my slot as town, and my reads will be bussed.

[humaneatingmonkey]

can you buy that Isis' personal philosophy on bussing is "just bus everyone"

[humaneatingmonkey]

RC's wiki says "bussing is good mmkay". scum is all about bussing nowadays.

[humaneatingmonkey]

true but you've kept yourself open to lynch just about anyone that your associations are useless

[humaneatingmonkey]

the answer, Isis, is that you're the deepwolf

[humaneatingmonkey]

and my reads will be bussed

lol

sheeped* i just woke up dont @ me

[humaneatingmonkey]

im not dumb

[humaneatingmonkey]

Alright, I just finished the other game in which I'm mafia. I think I can focus here now.

[humaneatingmonkey]

what the fuck are you talking about

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm gonna stand by that it's Isis/Elements. Anything else will never get my vote.

p-edit: Okay. So?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I was mafia in the other game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Why am I even talking to you?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Looker, I'll be talking to you. You're gonna be today's lynch if things don't change fast. Me, I think you're town based on my re-read. I don't want your lynch.

Break it down for me why Elements is town. If it's not a strong reason, or if it's something I can prove wrong, you need to join me in lynching Elements (with Firebringer and Deimos27).

[humaneatingmonkey]

Isis, help me read you. You seem different here than in your recent town games in ways that I can't articulate yet. Did you change your playstyle here?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I saw. I've been watching your games.

Describe what you're doing here right now?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I need another flip. Not Looker. Elements or Deimos. Both will confirm or disprove me.

[humaneatingmonkey]

discredit the points and ideas of people who are off kilter

you've only done this to me, so far. and how would you know if ideas are off kilter?

I think you're probably

misreading me

because my voting record is only one phase off of being a clone of what I'd have for a scum voting record

This, but I think I'm reading you properly.

there is surely someone in this game presenting an accurate paradigm for the game that you could follow and that should be a good idea if things haven't gone well for you on the same playing feel.

You say all the but you've never really made a visible effort to sieve through what paradigm it could be.

Whether GC is scum is pretty irrelevant if the ideas are developed well.

You admit I may be right that your scum voting pattern is similar here, and yet you say that GC ignoring the bussing part is an "idea developed well."

But anyway what I was saying with the post, is it was an accurate idea. Forget about whether I killed Norwee the same dayphase I presented it or did it later or the wifom of saying he's scum and I'll kill him later. The idea is correct. Ideas matter, and they're worth paying attention to.Forget about whether I killed Norwee the same dayphase I presented it or did it later or the wifom of saying he's scum and I'll kill him later. The idea is correct. Ideas matter, and they're worth paying attention to.

How your behavior matches the ideas you say you do have actually matters more too. Sometimes scum just gives the right answers.

Lots of people discredit townies as scum to try to win because it's easier. I don't really do that as scum because it's a pretty consistent zero-wine-swaps thing to interpret as scummy.I don't really do that as scum because it's a pretty consistent zero-wine-swaps thing to interpret as scummy.

You may have not discredited me by saying I'm scum, but you're discrediting me through AtE and it's just the same.

My ideas aren't being followed or considered fairly because I'm either doing a bad job selling it and/or I've lost the trust of the town. That doesn't really reflect on validity.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Listen up. You guys are all demotivated because you have been influenced to stay open-ended and uncertain. This is science.

Let's move on from this phase of the game.

I want all of you to double down to a lynch order that you prefer. And tell us what it means for you when the player you want to lynch flips in either alignment. This is how we will build consensus and compromises.

I will start.

I think this is it: Isis > Elements (That ends the game.) But the consensus may be Looker and Deimos right now, and I'm not delusional that I may be outnumbered right now.

If we lynch Elements, and he's scum — I'm going for Isis.
If we lynch Elements, and he's town — I'm going to sheep GC. I don't think scum!GC will defend town!Elements here, and it means that he had good reads.
If we lynch Deimos, and he's scum — I will turn into a hammer. No more input from me.
If we lynch Deimos, and he's town — I'm going for Elements and Isis.
If we lynch Looker, and he's scum — I learned nothing. I will continue going for Elements and Isis.
If we lynch Looker, and he's town — I learned nothing. I will continue going for Elements and Isis.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm an entire phase off from my actual scum voting pattern, norwee push never gets delayed to the phase it was if I'm scum

Because of ABR's quicklynch and Alisae's lynch. You haven't pushed Norwee in this period, and nor would you say that you had the opportunity to. And why push Norwee when a mislynch is offered, right?

Give me your lynch order.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Deimos FB looker gc

Tell me what happens to your reads when Deimos flips scum/town. And the other people too.

[humaneatingmonkey]

we haven't seen a lynch in what? 2 weeks? I don't think i am being unreasonable here.

you are not

[humaneatingmonkey]

Firebringer, you too. I need your full double down on your reads right now.

[humaneatingmonkey]

If you think he's scum why give up?

[humaneatingmonkey]

God you're so scummy.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Deimos FB looker gc is my lynch order atm. But I will say that you sound like you're describing a lot of people being, like "I think x is a little scummiest than Y but I want to keep sifting" whereas I am more so at "I think x y and z are dead ties so that's why I don't want to lynch."

Notice the fact that these are all dead ties, but she has never really made any effort to sift through this lynch order who is scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Why is Deimos the prime lynch candidate if everyone are dead ties?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Tone, and you were out of my radar.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I hope people are seeing you the way I'm seeing you.

[humaneatingmonkey]

prime according to popularity, not according to me. You're correct that it doesn't matter that he's prime, if anyone in the tie was inactive I'd want more play before lynching.

what are you looking for to sort Deimos?
what are you looking for to sort GC?
what are you looking for to sort Firebringer?
what are you looking for to sort Looker?

[humaneatingmonkey]

It's a rhetorical question. You were never looking for anything. Otherwise, there would be evidence of searching.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Elements, what happens when Deimos, Firebringer, Looker, and Isis flips town? Describe how your reads will change for each outcomes.
Elements, what happens when GC and Monkey flips scum? Describe how your reads will change for each outcomes.

[humaneatingmonkey]

You will never ever change your mind about this even if your PoE all ends up being town?

[humaneatingmonkey]

human are my two strongest town reads

what happened to your scumread of me?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Firebringer, you too. I need your full double down on your reads right now.

my lynch order is

Deimos > GC > Elements > Looker > Isis > You

What would happen to your reads if Deimos flips town? Or scum? Do this for GC, Elements, Looker, and Isis.

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Deimos

What's your lynch order? And how would Deimos flipping scum influence your reads on all the other players? How would Deimos flipping town influence your reads on all the other players?

Please do this to the other people in your lynch order as well.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Am I allowed to unvote yet, firebringer?

FB IS ONE OF YOUR "EQUAL SCUMREADS". WHY DID YOU UNVOTE AT L-1?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Monkey's tone perpetually confuses me. It's like I can see the waves of condescension.

Looker, how would FB flipping town or scum affect your reads of the other players? Do this for Deimos, Monkey, GC, Elements, and Isis as well.

[humaneatingmonkey]

He was acting towny. That breaks the equality

Acting townie how? What have you found in Firebringer that you were looking for? Explain it now because you've made a big game decision, and we would like to townread Firebringer as well.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Monkey's tone perpetually confuses me. It's like I can see the waves of condescension.

Looker, how would FB flipping town or scum affect your reads of the other players? Do this for Deimos, Monkey, GC, Elements, and Isis as well.

Also I'm not being condescending. If you missed it, about 3-4 people have declared wanting to lynch you.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Don't say that it'd be town indicative for you

VOTE: firebringer don't be a firerunt about it this time

You voted him even after you declared him town for it. You don't have real reads.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Bro, if you're town, please don't be lazy I'm trying to make this game not die and default to defeat by apathy. Try and chacha with me.

[humaneatingmonkey]

There is. Aren't you seeing how scummy Isis is right now?

Intent to hammer Deimos

[humaneatingmonkey]

Also do my question

You want me to write up how my view of other players would change based on BOTH a scum AND town flip for EVERY SINGLE PLAYER.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Please GC, please.

[humaneatingmonkey]

At this point, I just want to graduate to dead thread and get spoilers.

[humaneatingmonkey]

adequately performing Norwegian-scum

You ignore how Isis really treats Norwee's wagon. She said it was scum, but she wanted her to live out until the later days. I have no doubt she was voting Norwee to throw off people and I have no doubt Isis wouldn't have continued voting for Norwee if ever it gets traction. Have you considered that this may just be an anomaly? It's not like it's a lynch wagon — maybe it wouldn't have materialized.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Isis performance, and even recent performance, is indicative of a scummy perspective and scummy intentions. Furthermore, I think all associative reads on Isis should be taken with a heavy grain of salt. I would also like to add that she has

absent

, not unparticipative, during ABR and Alisae's lynch.

[humaneatingmonkey]

So did FB

I don't think this is true. This is not what I saw in my re-read.

[humaneatingmonkey]

but Firebringer's actions have always been consistent with wanting to lynch Norwee.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Bro, maybe the strategy is bus on Day 1. At the point of Isis switching to Norwee, Cycle Men's wagon was no longer.

[humaneatingmonkey]

You really want me to do my own VCA, don't you? Is that the only way you're going to consider my Isis case? Because I'll fucking do it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Likes as in personally, but thinks he's scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

Isis changed her votes at MACH 20 speeds for nothing. If you think it's a serious vote, you're wrong. If you think that town!Isis thinking scum!Norwee is scum there and then moving to Cycle Men who in her head was "hard to read" you're reading that interaction badly.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Here's my rebuttal, GC. Review those votes carefully and really see if that's coming from town. Context is important.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Which is what Isis said too.

Then maybe they're both scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

GC, let's buddy. Do you accept this friend request?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Deimos. I'm waiting on Deimos. If I can actually delay everything to hammer my townread and instead sell my Isis case, I will do it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

GC, let's buddy. Do you accept this friend request?

Sure.

I'm not reading any more mafia tonight though.

okay but please come back and reply to me when you can kthanksbye

[humaneatingmonkey]

GC I did a rebuttal on your Isis town argument. Please see it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Don't quit on me Firebringer. You just need a flip.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't want a draw when I think I've solved the game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Elements or Deimos. Preferably Isis. Deimos is prodded, and we're still waiting.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Deimos

Let's get this over with.

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Deimos

[humaneatingmonkey]

Aight guys enjoy your hammer VOTE: Firebringer

[humaneatingmonkey]

Okay boss

[humaneatingmonkey]

In hindsight I should have given intent.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Just so you guys know, I will actively fight against my lynch because I will flip green. I'm not gonna self-hammer or anything.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Looker, why do you townread Elements more than Isis? I thought everyone just trusted Isis' vague metaread on him?

[humaneatingmonkey]

putting HEM or GC as the fourth means interpreting the game with three more endangered players and a fourth with a lot more tenacity

are you saying I have good charisma?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Nobody took HEM up on his resigning himself to a hammer.

[humaneatingmonkey]

My play has been a disaster and I need to learn how to play town better. I'm currently at 4|6|0.

[humaneatingmonkey]

If Isis flips scum, maybe I'm not as dumb as I think I am.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Firebringer, you too. I need your full double down on your reads right now.

my lynch order is

Deimos > GC > Elements > Looker > Isis > You

[humaneatingmonkey]

By the way, this guy delivered us 2 scum ^^

[humaneatingmonkey]

i kind of still bet this game on a elements/deimos team tbh

confident firebringer

[humaneatingmonkey]

I know I'm not allowed preferences anymore, but I'm happy to lynch here ---> {GC, Elements, Isis}

[humaneatingmonkey]

But forget about my Isis read. I did that all by myself.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I realized if we don't lynch scum within these two mislynches, we're gonna lose in LYLO with Looker voting for me.

[humaneatingmonkey]

We have to get it right in these next two mislynches. Both Isis and GC can't be scum. And so one can be safely trusted. I don't know why people townread Elements, as historically we've only been trusting Isis' metaread on him, and this is why I want everyone to say why.

I believe GC townreads Elements based on his VCA. That's why Looker > Isis is consistent with his POV.
I believe Firebringer townreads Elements based on Isis' metareads. So in his mind, it could be both Isis and Elements — and yet there's only one scum left. Firebringer will lynch GC here.
I don't get why Looker townreads Elements, honestly. If it's because of Isis' metareads, I don't get why he townreads Elements more than Isis. Maybe that Elements would be town or scum regardless of Isis alignment? If so I don't get what stops Elements from being the scum.
Isis doing work to affirm her Elements' metaread will be interesting to me.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Kudos to human and Deimos, who are also conftown

I want to know where did this come from GC?

[humaneatingmonkey]

My reads are:
Isis
Alisae
GC

That's who I think is scum.

VOTE: Norwee
I'M GOLDEN ROBSTER NOW

Norwe is town.

Scum bussed.

Looker, alisae, GC

ABR's reads are either entirely wrong, or hit at least one.

[humaneatingmonkey]

You townread Deimos? But you just wanted to kill him?

I STRONGLY townread him but also I suspect he's pocketed me and I think he has a lot of equity as Norwee's partner. And also Firebringer, the person whose reads I'm trying to trust, scumreads him.

Kill your darlings

.

I wish I didn't re-read the thread.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Both are my townreads, so they're probably scum.

This refers to GC and Deimos27.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Votecount 3.Final

Target	Wagon
Alisae (6)	humaneatingmonkey (1559), votato (1560), NorwegianboyEE (1583), Looker (1732), Deimos27 (1919), Elements (1958)
NorwegianboyEE (2)	Alisae (1720), Firebringer (1721)
Not Voting (2)	Green Crayons, Isis

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Alisae was lynched. E was a

Vanilla Townie

.

According to the Charismatic Model of Mafia, scum will try to lynch the most charismatic town players. Alisae was a charismatic player, no doubt. I know I'm town, and let's assume I'm town. Does that mean that scum is within this wagon?

Compare to ABR's lynch. Is ABR a charismatic player?

Votecount 2.Final

Target	Wagon
Albert B. Rampage (6)	humaneatingmonkey (1359), Elements (1366), Deimos27 (1373), Firebringer (1395), Green Crayons (1397), Alisae (1467)
Looker (1)	Albert B. Rampage (1345)
Alisae (1)	NorwegianboyEE (1387)
Firebringer (1)	Looker (1392)
Not Voting (2)	votato , Isis

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Albert B. Rampage was lynched. He was a

Vanilla Townie

.

Compare to votato's lynch, who is uncharismatic as hell.

Votecount 4.Final

Target	Wagon
votato (5)	Deimos27 (2055), humaneatingmonkey (2154), Looker (2163), NorwegianboyEE (2186), Green Crayons (2249)
NorwegianboyEE (2)	votato (2082), Firebringer (2100)
Not Voting (5)	Elements (2059), Isis (2177)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

votato was lynched. He was a

Vanilla Townie

.

Isis, I need your take on this.

[humaneatingmonkey]

We have two mislynches, don't we?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Part of my incentive with the Firebringer quicklynch is that if town!Firebringer sees drawing as a reasonable way to play in 3p LyLo and cooperates with scum that expects to be the LyLo's solve then I don't get my win condition.

I don't mind getting mislynched and losing for because of that and would much likely experience that than very frustrating bizarre crap that comes up from the play to a draw stuff.

What's the other parts of your incentive?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Isis can you like, whatever you alignment is, can you teach me how to be a better town? I don't want to be another Looker on this site. What should I be doing right now?

[humaneatingmonkey]

That request goes to you as well, GC.

[humaneatingmonkey]

You don't have to.

[humaneatingmonkey]

You don't have to.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Okay so re-read the game 4 times and try and see which scum story fits the most?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Good thing I'm going to confbias 4 different people this time, right?

[humaneatingmonkey]

If I re-read the game with the idea that each 4 people can be scum!true, I think it's a good methodology.

[humaneatingmonkey]

You never did send me that friend request, HEM

[humaneatingmonkey]

I see you Deimos, you filthy scum!

[humaneatingmonkey]

what do i have to do so you're reassured?

[humaneatingmonkey]

also im serious about being taught how to be town, coming from you too

[humaneatingmonkey]

But his play both holistically and in nuances screams a loud pervasive desire to not die, to not be killed.

what

[humaneatingmonkey]

And when I say holistically that includes the lynches pursued, with HEM shelter in Ali and Isis tunnels and making promises to get lynched for being wrong that he's confident will be townread.

what

[humaneatingmonkey]

you would be admitting to a strong desire not to die and convincing me it's not that AI for you

what

[humaneatingmonkey]

Elements you like me right remember that time we played fusion, I didn't mislynch you, it was all the great times.

That's the Survivor tell, and maybe nightless brings it out in people somehow or other because this characterization reminds me heavily of both my nightless scumgames.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't want to lead the town anymore and say that we should definitely lynch Isis, but we should definitely lynch Isis.

[humaneatingmonkey]

When I die, will you lynch Isis?

[humaneatingmonkey]

that's too bad. i don't think i can change your mind here, and I still think you might be scum. so talking to you is pointless.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i don't think you have the power to lynch Isis at LYLO.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm having trouble lynching her now. Do you think you'll stand a better chance?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Another problem I have in your lynch order is that I really don't think Looker is scum here. I'd be happy to be wrong, though.

[humaneatingmonkey]

There will still be 2 days of this. You don't know who flips and who flops.

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Isis

Just so it's clear who I think it is before someone quickhammers.

I think Isis > Green Crayons wins the game. One of the other wins the game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

This is your hard counterproof.

[humaneatingmonkey]

no locktowns? no attempt at sorting elements above the flimsy meta you have? no attempt in looking towards looker more? just a "looks pretty bad for monkey" when it really doesn't?

[humaneatingmonkey]

What you do and where you say your head is doesn't really match

[humaneatingmonkey]

Thank you Elements

[humaneatingmonkey]

I can see colors now

[humaneatingmonkey]

Isis is still scum lmao

[humaneatingmonkey]

I have all sorts of theory opinions about this topic I'd want to say postgame but I'm not sure whether they serve my wincon right now.

can you explain this now?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Happy birthday GC!

[humaneatingmonkey]

Isis is scuuuuuum let's just lynch her

VOTE: Isis

[humaneatingmonkey]

GC, flip Isis. I know you want to.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Make it the first thing you do when you wake up.

[humaneatingmonkey]

GC, do me a solid and just lynch Isis.

[humaneatingmonkey]

at least flip her then move on to looker or elements