Mini Normal 2130: Mafia From Home [Game Over]

[UnaBombaH]

I think that last part there might be on a grey area ^^.

[UnaBombaH]

So this was a setup created by Boon..? All right then.

VOTE: profii for hustling me in the last game.

[UnaBombaH]

Already sorry for falling off for a moment here.
Will try to scavenge an inkling of a read soon.

Until that however, I will give you list of players that I feel like I can read correctly once I get enough actions to analyze:

profii
Luca Blight
Saudade

The rest of the list feels barely familiar, if at all.

I do not think anyone in this game actually knows what I'm capable of doing as town (or appreciates it?), but then again, I'm only starting to get back in to this thing.
profii has played with me the most out of the whole playerlist, I think, but based on the latest game they do not think much of me as a scumhunter..
And fair enough, they did win!

[UnaBombaH]

Oh, and if I remember correctly, Luca Blight is a terrifyingly good player.
So some second hand -paranoia will be directed there since Boon isn't playing..

[UnaBombaH]

I think my best guess for a scumpost would be 125.
If it's a townpost however, I'd love to hear a better version of it where Churros tried to pinpoint some of the posts they feel could be SvS.

[UnaBombaH]

VOTE: Churros

[UnaBombaH]

Oh, someone else asked for it already.
And they haven't clarified yet, so I guess my vote is still fine there.

We thinking scum!profii apparently?

[UnaBombaH]

For clarity, I'm happy with a Proffi lynch today, but no rush on that.

For now, all I'm willing to say is that profii shouldn't be the lynch D1. I'll get back to this D2, I think.

[UnaBombaH]

In post 99, you said you were particularly good at reading Profii, Saudade and Luca.

Out of all the players in this game. Not necessarily good at reading them per se.
I'll give my thoughts about Luca when I'm not phoneposting.
I'll also try to convey my thoughts about Saudade into words then.

[UnaBombaH]

72offsuit is more likely to flip scum.
They need to bluff to get anything out of that hand anyway, so likely scum.

VOTE: 72offsuit

[UnaBombaH]

NorwegianboyEE, Anotora, Egix96, Riabi

Also thinking 1-2 scum in this group, depending on what profii is.
Either a buddy bussing for towncred, or scum/2 aiming for a mislynch.

[UnaBombaH]

NorwegianboyEE, Anotora, Egix96, Riabi

Also thinking 1-2 scum in this group, depending on what profii is.
Either a buddy bussing for towncred, or scum/2 aiming for a mislynch.

There is no one in this player list who could talk me into getting bussed after I made all the calls in that game i just won.

Disagree completely with this one, but I guess it's a pointless discussion.
If you are scum, you saying this is always going to be 50/50 WIFOM, and if you are town, it doesn't matter one bit in this game, right?

[UnaBombaH]

Ok now, this page is so slow I'm pulling my hair out atm. Same with how profii and norwegian are twisting this.
Now, mind you, if I end up being lynched here it quite clearly fits profii + norwegian as scum too, just putting that out there.

Then, on to my actual message.

I do not want profii lynched today.

Take it however you want, but don't paint me scum for it before seeing what either of us flips. That's just silly.
Call it gut, call it insight on how the wagon formed, but I smell a rat on that wagon.

That is why I'm against the lynch - not because I'm absolutely certain profii flips town here - but because I believe more could be harvested from all of this if people just let me do my thing for a day or two more.
I'll be a lot more adamant about profii once I see how this day pans out IF WE LYNCH SOMEWHERE ELSE. And obviously not me, for it to make a difference.

I believe profii could offer a lot for this game in the coming days, one way or another.
Picking on me just because I'm blatantly against the wagon is just lazy.

[UnaBombaH]

Also consider this - if the majority still wants profii lynched, I don't have much I can do about it alone.

It's a complicated thing, but I'm a simple man myself.
And with all the things combined - to me - it seems like scum are currently eager to be on the forefront and push for their agendas out in the open.

My way too early theory is that 72offsuit+1/2 in the profii wagon make up for the team. Norwegian fits the bill for my current guesses the best ON the wagon.

[UnaBombaH]

If anything though, we can see Norgey boy being open minded so whe we go look at my wagon, I'd probably rule him out more easily now

Oh wow, then you go saying something like this.
I have the complete opposite PoV on this.

Norwegian fits the scum agenda PERFECTLY.
Eager to jump off from your wagon to chase someone who is acting suspiciously..in this case? Me.

So whether profii is scum or not, Norwegian fits the scum to a tee.
If profii is their scumbuddy, he would be getting an easier exit from the bus.
If profii is town, they get an easy exit from a mislynch - BUT THEY ARE STILL FREE TO PUSH FOR IT LATER.
They only jumped off because someone more suspicious turned up.

VOTE: Norwegian - and this is why I often like to go against the stream.

[UnaBombaH]

I do not want profii lynched today. Take it however you want, but don't paint me scum for it before seeing what either of us flips. That's just silly.
Call it gut, call it insight on how the wagon formed, but I smell a rat on that wagon.

I do not understand your mindset. Unless you can explain WHY you think this way in a sort of manner i find believable. I’m going to keep believing you’re just making up false logic to support your position.

You keep doing you then.

I'm not scum here, and just because I disagree with the theory of scum!profii, it doesn't mean I'm scum.
Especially since you won't be able to reason the whole with/without scum!profii side of the argument.
You'll say I'm scum if profii is scum here, because I'm trying to save a buddy?
You'll say I'm scum if profii is town here, because I was trying to get towncred by being vocal about opposing the wagon, right?
But you see, there is no association there. If he's town here, neither of us would be aware of each other yet.
If he's scum after all, I wouldn't know it yet.

This all just spinning the yarn based on personal reads and views, until we get a flip and have something to build upon.

[UnaBombaH]

So does this mean you were acting scummy on purpose?

No, I don't think I've been scummy at all.
I also addressed this in my latest game. It used to be my tactic to act scummy as town, to create discussion around myself, and then try and come up with reads based on that.
I've stopped doing that just because I don't think it's good for the team, because town won't be able to discern the "noise" from the rest.

That being said, I've tried to be a controversian here, because I have a gut-townread on profii.
I've promised to revisit that read D2 with the flips and all in mind.
And I truly believe there's a high chance for scum in their wagon.
I also have this tingle that 72offsuit positioning themselves on a solo-wagon fits scum spreading out at least one member off the likely lynch.

Currently, I believe profii was the dedicated lynch-target for scum D1 ever since Luca started their push there.
Hence, for now I'll keep thinking profii is town, and work the rest of my reads from there until I get some actual data to work with.

[UnaBombaH]

Oh wow.
That's rude.

[UnaBombaH]

I'll take a nap and do something productive at home afterwards, so guess I'll be reading this game next time tomorrow.
In short: my requests for D1.

Don't lynch profii.

Don't lynch me.

If you are willing to give me the above, do NOT vig me N1, no matter who flips and what.

[UnaBombaH]

If there’s a vig you’re the ideal target anyway given your claim.

I’m actually wondering if Profii/Una is s/s after all. Such weird interactions.

If you had a strong gutread of someone being town, but didn't know how to articulate it well enough to everyone else..That's where I'm at right now.

Give me my pound of meat today, and lynch anywhere other than profii or me. If need be, I can be your sheep for the rest of the game, but I don't think it'll even come to that.
And I'll make sure I'm dead well before LyLo too, so there's absolutely no risk with me here.

And if you can't compromise with profii today, then go for it, and I'll try to do my best explaining afterwards.

[UnaBombaH]

If proffi is scum, would una-scum not just bus him?

YES. YES I WOULD HAVE.

If Profii and I were to be scumbuddies here, I would've bussed in a heartbeat. Zero hesitation, especially since they haven't made any big moves to save themself.

If they are scum, it's a shame my gutread is off.
If they are town, I think they can do a lot more once the game gets rolling.
Same applies to me - I've had something like zero good D1's as town.

[UnaBombaH]

surely you have more confidence in your own win condition than Proffi's, so why are you allowing him to get you lynched?

I'm not allowing him to get me lynched?!?
If it ever came down to it, me vs profii, I'd obviously hope everyone voted him over me.

It has nothing to do with the fact that I don't want them lynched D1.

[UnaBombaH]

It may bother you that the Una wagon didn't gain more steam after you hopped over, but I'm not sure that's Proffi's fault? Co-ordination issues here perhaps.

...What?
I never claimed it was Profii's fault.
And what are you insinuating with your "co-ordination issues" remark?

It would be funny if this was later revealed to be a poorly coordinated interaction between to scum..

Oh and i found a potential connection between scum!Una and scum!Battle Mage. They both use those annoying laughing smileys at the end of almost every sentence of theirs.

I do not know what I've done to deserve all the hate, but all I can say to you, is "get over it".
I'm not gonna stop it just because, and it shouldn't bother you as much as it apparently does, so..

[UnaBombaH]

People are so fking touchy around here, getting their jumbles in a bunch over scumreads and smileys.

[UnaBombaH]

I find it very hard to believe there isn't at least one scum in Zantetsu/Norwegian/BattleMage, but I don't mind it fow now. As long as we can come to an agreement that we lynch someone from the profii-wagon at it's peak.
And that someone isn't profii.

I know, I ask for a lot...

[UnaBombaH]

And why is Zantetsu scum? Because as far as i can tell the only reason you’re including him now is because i expressed an townread on him. Which is stupid.

You keep making wrong assumptions. I believe there's a chance they are scum who see an opportunity to save me for later as an easy mislynch. While the actual content matter in their posts has been good, I feel like the tone gave a hint of pocketing.

[UnaBombaH]

Which is part of the reason your posts annoy me together with Battle Mage. Because they are so reachy. Using moon logic to confirm your reads proves one of two things. Either you two are just bad, or you’re scum. And i sincerely hope for all our sakes it is the latter.

Another nasty, bad mannered post. I thought you were a nice fellow. And more accurate in your hunches.
I'm neither scum nor bad. I'm a man on a mission. And my D1 mission is to make sure me and profii both make it out of this day.

On another note, I was really looking forward to my trip to Italy later this year. It seems the best I got out of this all, is that I get to work all summer, and I barely got my money back that I had already commited. So money+money in a way?

[UnaBombaH]

Bah, that was an inconsiderate post to make, I'm sorry.
I would've been fighting Covid in Naples with my luck anyway..

[UnaBombaH]

I'm on board for Battle Mage too, I guess?
I still think Norwegian is flying all funny.

[UnaBombaH]

Hey, 72 was my go-to hunch! Let's all go there!

[UnaBombaH]

I think there might've been mistakes in the votecount..
And in case there wasn't: VOTE: Norwegian

[UnaBombaH]

I absolutely love all the content we're finally getting now that people are coming out in the open with their reads and assumptions.
It's gonna be a lot more healthy for us moving forward.
But I do feel like there are a couple of things I need to point out specifically. Mainly about how people are dancing around a subject on DAY 1, when no one should be dancing around any potential claims of PRs.

Zantetsu first:

UnaBombaH I have a theory about. Maybe my theory is wrong.

But he has said things. I can point them out but really they are there for anyone re-reading his ISO to see.

If this comes from town, it's a very bad show when scum decide to kill me/profii for shits and giggles, and in the version where I am a town-PR, it never helps town to talk about it until it's time for claims and results. I mean, this could've been anything else too, until..

I think we need to talk about UnaBombaH because we have polar opposite reads there. The problem is that if I give you my explanation it's possibly going to put some bullseye's on some people ...

This is just as bad as outright saying it though.
You are not being vague here, AT ALL.
You talk about painting bullseyes on people's back, but essentially that's what you've done here already.

I believe there's a chance they are scum who see an opportunity to save me for later as an easy mislynch.

I'm working on the theory that you soon won't be mislynchable. But what you said here is starting to shake the foundation of my theory. And I'm not OMGUSing here, I'm talking not about the fact that you think I would save you for an easy mislynch, it's that you think an easy mislynch of you will be possible.

Man, I don't know what to tell you here.
I'm not going to claim Cop, if that's what you had in mind? I can definitely be mislynched this game if scum play their cards right, but what you are driving here is making me one of the more likely N1 kill-targets.
Which, I might add, wouldn't be the worst thing for town this game.
Apparently people get way too paranoid and confused when someone has a solid gut-townread on a player people are wagoning. So scum shooting me N1 might just help us get a more cohesive D2.

I think that UnaBombaH is Informed that profii has a role.

For the sake of the argument, consider that I am informed profii

DOESN'T

have a role, and it would make more sense for me to not want him lynched D1.

Right?!? Because the man has claimed VanillaTownie.
So assume I was informed profii has a role -

I would've wanted him dead the moment he claimed VT and said he was ready to die.

So no, your theory is wrong.
I do not KNOW profii's role or alignment yet, but I do believe he can be useful to town if we do not rush a lynch there today.

[UnaBombaH]

Anyway, townies - please don't discuss other peoples assumed roles or hints during the early days.
You achieve NOTHING good for town by doing that.
Really stop, and think - what good could come from bringing those observations to the front?
If they are really a townPR, you have just pointed those things out for scum.
And if they are not, you have just weaved a massive WIFOM-nest for scum to abuse.
NOTHING. GOOD. COMES. FROM. DISCUSSING. ROLES. BEFORE. ACTUAL. CLAIMS.
While this site has a wide variety of views on how the game actually should be played - varying from player to player - I do not think anyone can argue why it's a good thing for town to talk about roles.


In this particular game, it's only myself or profii who might get shot for what Zantetsu has just said here, and

I don't think neither of us

is the biggest loss here.

[UnaBombaH]

Time to point out the other half of that same bad coin.
Coming to you live, straight from the player who calls others bad - Asking about assumed PR's and hinted game-mechanics Day 1 - Mr...... Nooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeegiaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!

That is a very pretty list Norwegian.

I think we need to talk about UnaBombaH because we have polar opposite reads there. The problem is that if I give you my explanation it's possibly going to put some bullseye's on some people ...

So i take it you have a good reason to not see UnaBombaH as scummy? Something to do with game mechanics? Is that what you're hinting at?

If you really didn't understand that from what Zantetsu said, I do not know what you thought it could've been.
Why would you ever ask this? If you have a townie-mindset, you do not want him explaining it anyway..

Don't say what it is though.

Oh yeah, 'cause that's gonna totally salvage it at this point.

Another nasty, bad mannered post. I thought you were a nice fellow. And more accurate in your hunches.
I'm neither scum nor bad. I'm a man on a mission. And my D1 mission is to make sure me and profii both make it out of this day.

I'm not nice. I believe you've gotten the wrong impression from my scum!play back in that mini we had recently. When i was pretending to be a soft fluffball.

Btw, not being nice is not something I'd consider brag-worthy. Here, have a

This is an awful interaction.

Yeah i actually agree that was a really stupid thing of me to say in hindsight, i was just curious why he would defend Una to this extent.

Well, consider that I've now made a sweeping declaration that his assessment of my role was wrong.
So now that there's no role-related reason to townbin me, want to revisit the subject?

Zantetsu can you just say why you don't believe Una shouldn't be the lynch? Because i feel like this is going nowhere.

Oh, you DID return to the cheese.
Why would you ever do this as town? He was still clearly hinting at an assumed role, and you just had to take that last push for it?
I do not see how you can goof around here and call others bad players when you do stuff like this.
Unless you are scum here, so think of my vote on you as the benefit of the doubt - you might actually be a good townplayer. Just not this game

Alright.
Regarding Zantetsu. It is true that i initially questioned his claim about Unau because i found his defense weird and couldn’t understand the reasoning behind his claim. His response indicated mechanics related answers so i didn’t think i should dig any deeper. But considering further query might be important after all.

Because i don’t see what could convince him so strongly about Una town unless for some reason they were masons.

(Which seems unlikely.) so assuming Zantetsu can’t explain his reasoning it might be something to follow up on.

You had put Zantetsu up there as your top2 townread.
That wasn't reason enough to give him the benefit of the doubt, eh?
Especially since he was clearly hinting at a role or a mechanic within the setup.
And then the bolded... You would've thought it "OK" to get a Mason-claim squeezed out of him/us D1 then?
You are all over the place with this stuff, and therefore I think you are a completely reasonable lynch for D1.

It seems likely that scum are in people not posting considering this gamestate.

Based on what?
The gamestate might seem like it has devolved into something weird, but the matter of fact is that we've actually gotten a decent amount of posts in the last day or so.
We also got some interactions and reads out in the open.
Those will be useful when the game moves forward.

I’m basing it on me and Battle Mage being town. If i was scum in this situation and witnessed Norwegianboy/Battle Mage arguing i would probably stay back and do very little to disturb the current gamestate. Therefore i believe that most scum are staying back right now.

You two arguing hasn't brought anything push-worthy to the table though.
Other than you.
So your narrative now is to call me scum (again), and OMGUS me with the might of Odin.

It is also the fact that nobody is really supporting Battle Mage. Showing that he is alone and not group!scum.

OK, I'll make a one-quote-post next where I support BattleMage, so that you can call us a team, OK?

[UnaBombaH]

i think the reason you hate norwegian is because you're from Finland and that's all there is to it

The correct

stereotype

would be that Finns hate swedish people, actually.
I had absolutely nothing personal against Norwegian coming into this game, I even had some positive vibes based on the one game we shared a little while back, but I dislike people calling other people bad players.
Especially since they don't have any info themselves yet, and will probably end up being wrong most of the time.

Same applies to you too Saudade - I see you going around saying "stay positive", and then you come into a game and be all nasty to others.. Not cool man.

[UnaBombaH]

why do you vote norwee and then go on a quote spree quoting zantetsu

..because you are too hasty.
I was working on my post about Norwegian while you made that.

[UnaBombaH]

This is for Norwegian - why BattleMage currently feels more like town than you do:

That is a very pretty list Norwegian.

I think we need to talk about UnaBombaH because we have polar opposite reads there. The problem is that if I give you my explanation it's possibly going to put some bullseye's on some people ...

So i take it you have a good reason to not see UnaBombaH as scummy? Something to do with game mechanics? Is that what you're hinting at?

Yes.

This is an awful interaction.

10/10, would agree with BattleMage again.

[UnaBombaH]

i take out all my frustrations on people on the internet

I wish you didn't need to do that, but I guess it's not within my reach.
You working with a lot of stress/frustration then?

I personally had to take distance from this site while I was going through my "darkest times".
Had a divorce, lost one of my oldest and best friends in the process (although that's up for debate since she was my wife as well), lost my job, got addicted to gambling, lost my money, lost my will to achieve...well, anything.
Things aren't much better now either, but I've somehow managed to find a way to not be paralyzed by depression.
And it's not because I've somehow found a magical way of "staying positive", but simply because I've come to terms with feeling like this for the rest of my life.

Maybe my smileys are just me overcompensating?

[UnaBombaH]

Did Una say anything important? I didn’t really read most of it.

You've got to be kidding me.

[UnaBombaH]

I don't trust you enough as player to not fuck this up by delaying a important lynch D1 for silly reasons Una.

Should I trust you enough as a player and hard scum read you if you come D2 with some idiotic reason to have delayed it?

If this is the stance majority of people here have, then I guess it's better if you just push the profii lynch through today. I tried to give my pov on it, and I believe we have already avoided a useless D1 considering the amount of discussion generated after I put my agenda out there.
I have a GUTREAD on them, and believe I can accurately assess them as the game moves forward.
Can't guarantee a 80% success rate, or whatever your example was.

[UnaBombaH]

The reason you're asking us to hold on this, is it that trustworthy. Because if there's any "maybe" on that, we should ignore you and treat Profi as a slot we can lynch today.

You can treat profii as a lynchable slot today. But I will not vote there today myself, and believe more can be gained from lynching almost anywhere else today.

[UnaBombaH]

Obviously if Profii refuses to play or fails to build their normal process as town, well..why would it ever matter what I think?

[UnaBombaH]

I like Churros for town.

[UnaBombaH]

I'll give you all two points to reconsider and then I'm done trying.

1) profii being inactive here is very much different from their very recent game where they won as scum. They were more active, and they were able to force and forge reads and associations well enough.

2) they were very transparently happy about their scum-performance, and fought for their townstatus throughout the game. This is the polar opposite of that. The VT claim. The giving up.

I know most of you will disagree on this as well, but to me, that VT-claim was very meaningful as well.

That all being said, if you really don't think any other viable pushes or scumreads have risen from the last 10 or so pages, at least profii HAS claimed VT and they haven't shown much fighting spirit here so far. So lynching them might not be the worst thing if you don't think anyone has been more inconsistent or scummy with their posts.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm just curious to know what good you thought could come from inviting those observations by dropping numerous role hints. I mean you want to beat other players up for referencing them but you give yourself a free pass for making them.

Except you haven't seen me actually do any so far here.
Whenever I'm a role and I crumb it, I make it so that I'm not leaving wiggle room. I live to do that as a townPR, and many people might think it unwise or even stupid, but had I done that with profii here, it would've sucked for people to spotlight it for everyone.

[UnaBombaH]

I really hope Luca is townie enough, assuming Profii is the lynch for today.

[UnaBombaH]

Still not voting for profii, although he is making it seem not as bad for anyone else right now..

[UnaBombaH]

Yea, Looker is the designated mislynch for scum today apparently.
Think of him as profii 2.0.

Norwegian might say whatever he wants about it, but my gutread on profii was accurate, and I wish enough of you guys could've trusted me just a bit more.

[UnaBombaH]

Battle Mage, join me on the only real wagon today.
I've made up my mind, and I really want to VOTE: Luca Blight today.

[UnaBombaH]

We ended the day this quickly? Foolish and premature.

Oh please. This day needed to end. Nothing productive was happening outside of that Profii wagon.

Also this is 75% surely scum.

[UnaBombaH]

Luca Blight is scum.
Won't vote anyone else for now.

[UnaBombaH]

I have a guilty on him?
Barring a mod-error, he is scum.

[UnaBombaH]

Until that however, I will give you list of players that I feel like I can read correctly

once I get enough actions to analyze

:

profii

Luca Blight

Saudade

Normally I'd try to drag out my claim to try and get more guilties/inno's out of it, but I recognize his position in this town to be high enough to never get lynched unless I act now.
So yea, I checked Luca last night, since you wouldn't let me confirm profii N1.
Saudade is dead too, so glad I decided to follow my own order.

[UnaBombaH]

Not claiming a Cop.
But it's a 100% accurate guilty.
Will fullclaim the guilty-result once mod clarifies a potential wording-error, but as the result currently stands I have a guilty on Luca.

[UnaBombaH]

I am a town neighbor, my neighbor is 72.

What is your result?

Can confirm, so unless Luca is a scum neighbour, Una is lying.

VOTE: Una

Then just hold the phone.
I am simple. Per the wiki:

Simple is a role modifier that modifies the way in which an active action is used; it causes the action to fail, as though it were roleblocked, when used against a player who is not vanilla. In other words, only Vanilla Townies and Goons of the various anti-town factions will be affected by a Simple action; other players are too complex to be vulnerable.

Meaning that I should've gotten a "no result" from Luca if this is true?
I didn't, I got a result.
I already sent the mod a PM because I had a hunch there might've been a mistake in the result, but if this was really a mod-mistake, I'm done with this game.

[UnaBombaH]

It's a complicated thing, but I'm a

simple

man myself.

+

Bah, that was an inconsiderate post to make, I'm sorry.
I would've been fighting Covid in

Naples

with my luck anyway..

Simple + Neapolitan (= "a native or inhabitant of Naples").

So if Luca is a neighbour, I should've gotten a "no result". (same for any PR + alignment for that matter)
If Luca were a Vanilla Townie, I would've gotten a "Vanilla Townie" for result.
Instead my result was "not Vanilla". Meaning that with my role-combination the only way I would get that, is if Luca were to be a Vanilla Goon.

I did realize after I had already opened my mouth, that the result I was given doesn't exactly say "not Vanilla

Townie

"

as it should

, which is why I already asked the mod for clarification.
But barring a total mistake in the result I received, Luca is scum. AND considering how 72 already "confirmed" them as neighbours, so would he.

[UnaBombaH]

Townies should hold either lynch until I get a confirmation from the mod.
Afterwards it doesn't matter to me whether you lynch me or Luca if the result was correct, and just missed one word.

[UnaBombaH]

But then the simple modifier would prevent this and give "No Result", since that's what the simple modifier does -- give the same result as a roleblocked action if the target is not vanilla town.

Combine this...

On the other hand ... why would Una claim a guilty on Luca just because he got the result "Luca is not vanilla town" when there is the obvious other possibility that Luca is town with a role?

..with this.
Aren't these contradictory?
IF Luca is a town-PR, I assumed I would've gotten a "no result" there too?
So the only situation where I get this "not Vanilla (townie)", should mean "is Vanilla Goon", because everything else yields a "no result" or "is Vanilla Town".
RIGHT?!?

[UnaBombaH]

But then it doesn't seem possible that town!Una actually is simple neopolitan who got a

+

Whoops ignore the last sentence of my last post, it was some garbage that I accidentally left in when writing my post.

Seems like a potential PT-slip from scum.

[UnaBombaH]

He has a hunch there was an error, but rushes forward to reveal his result anyway?

No, I thought I had a guilty on you, and went for the play.
Then went to re-reread my result-PM, because I wanted to make sure there's no wiggle room.
Realized there WAS a small chance for error, and wanted to check it out.
I do not assume it would be my responsibility to double-check my results with the mod.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm also wondering why Una, as Town, would have targeted me anyway? Was he scumreading me D1?

I got a VT/goon -vibe from you, thought you'd definitely not be a PR.
So I assumed I'd get a clear/guilty on you as soon as possible, AND would've protected you in the process.
Yea, my role just gets weirder, and I'll fullclaim once I've caught up and read what the mod has answered.

[UnaBombaH]

Oh wow.
I'm going to give you my full role now, and I do not feel bad about the way I acted.
I just think this is a bullshit role to have, compared to the way it works.
I've lost all interest in this game now, because my honest opinion is that my role doesn't work like it "should".
I've consulted the wiki almost ten times after I got my Role-PM, and thought my role works in quite a clear way.
I even made a clear implication to the mod before the game started, about how I assumed my role would work, and he didn't feel like correcting me.

My actual role, and full claim is

Simple Combined Neapolitan Doctor.

My actual result after mod doublechecking is "not Vanilla Townie".
Now, I checked multiple times from the wiki, and it explicitly says

Simple is a role modifier that modifies the way in which an active action is used; it causes the action to fail, as though it were roleblocked, when used against a player who is not vanilla. In other words, only Vanilla Townies and Goons of the various anti-town factions will be affected by a Simple action; other players are too complex to be vulnerable.

MEANING THAT I SHOULD ONLY GET THIS RESULT FROM A VANILLA-MAFIA, RIGHT?!?

Well, now mod has returned to me, and given me an answer.
Since I can't directly quote our PM's, I'm going to paraphrase it next:
My doctor action only works on vanilla town. Sure, makes sense.
But I'm then told that I will still get a "Not Vanilla Town" -result, on anyone that doesn't have a "Vanilla Town" role pm.
WHY?
Why doesn't the Simple-modifier affect on the FIRST ROLE MENTIONED, BUT AFFECTS THE SECOND?

[UnaBombaH]

Oh, and the mod also says I will only get "no result" if I'm being roleblocked or the target is ascetic.
But the part I quoted from the wiki in my latest post clearly says that simple would cause my actions to fail if I target someone who is not Vanilla. (alignments aside)

[UnaBombaH]

If anyone still thinks I'm somehow bullshitting with a situation and claim this bold, go ahead.
I really am not.
So based on the result alone, I apparently do not have a guilty on Luca after all.
I guess.

[UnaBombaH]

I crumbed combined in the same post as I crumbed simple, or at least within 1 post from each other I think.
Something like "all things combined to me".
Doctor was crumbed very lightly for obvious reasons, but I mentioned fighting the flu in Naples or something like that.
A doctor would be fighting the disease there around this time, I think.
I also started this game by saying something about how this game-setup was designed by Boon, and I think my role merits that exclamation.
I also also said something like "I hope Luca is town

enough

" before the day ended.
Meaning literally that if he was to be Vanilla Town, I would've gotten a confirmed townie AND potentially protected him from the NK.

[UnaBombaH]

Screw the guilty. Just forget about your role. Can't you see that Zantetsu!scum implicates Luca!scum? No power needed for that.

Oh, I know this.
I'm just pissed off by the fact that my role apparently isn't anything like what the definition implies it should be.

[UnaBombaH]

So you're saying Luca might not be scum after all? As he has claimed a non-vanilla townie role!

All we know for a fact is that he is in a PT, and he is not a Vanilla

TOWNIE

.
He could still be a Mafia Goon (and I do think he is because my action went through on him anyway), but the way the mod answered my question to him, makes it seem like it's not a 100% guilty after all.
And that pisses me off like hell.

[UnaBombaH]

^^ bold was supposed to be on "Vanilla" obviously.
I'm just tired and annoyed so I can't focus.
Zantetsu should definitely be the lynch today, and assuming a scum-flip, you lynch Luca tomorrow no matter what he comes up with.
If Zantetsu flips town, tomorrow is reserved for a BattleMage-lynch obviously.

[UnaBombaH]

If Zantetsu and Luca Blight are scums then the most likely teammate is Egix96.

This is my main-gripe here.
If my role worked like it should, Luca should always be

VANILLA

-scum here.
Meaning that he is not a neighbor, meaning that his claimed neighbor is scum as well.

My gut-instinct was that scum might've been informed about a PT-cop?
Would explain why my then-assumed guilty on Luca was immediately responded to by a hood-claim and confirmation.

[UnaBombaH]

I don't even fully understand it - you are a doctor for vanilla townies only, and for any non-vanilla townies you get a "not vanilla" result? So it's sort of a half-cop/half-doc?

But see here, my role only gets accurate results on Vanilla Townies.
It's working more like a scum-role with the way that it works here - not the town-version I'm obviously supposed to have.
The only reasonable way "simple" should work here, is to gate my Doc'ing ability.
So that I could never protect our PR's, and only protect the Vanilla Townies AND Vanilla-Goons I'm confirming that night.
I'd be able to detect Mafia Goons because I'd get a result - "not Vanilla Town", and I wouldn't be able to differentiate Town- and Mafia-PRs from each other.

Made sense to me in a way after I pondered upon it for a while.
Makes no sense to me after last night.

[UnaBombaH]

Why are you both so convinced Zant-scum means Luca-scum??

It makes sense to me as well.
Reminds me of how a certain scumteam worked together in one of my older games, and almost no one else saw the connection there either.

[UnaBombaH]

Oh, I can come up with a LOT.
But I've made it a point here that whenever I'm a town-PR, I crumb early, make my claim later with the necessary quotes, and stick to it.
So no, I would never goof around with this as town, and scum!Una can play a lot better than you seem to think I could.

[UnaBombaH]

I also hope that the rest can now see why I played around the profii-slot the way I did.
I had my gut-hunch, and a solid way of making SURE N1.
I'm just a bit sad he apparently wasn't "feeling" this game.
He has a solid towngame when he's working for it.

I only acted the way I did, because I really thought we'd get the best D2/D3 with a confirmed townie/scum in profii, and their full wagons in their peak to analyze with the info as well.

I also do not act the way I did D1 as scum, EVER, to try and "get towncred".
I do not believe in "towncred".

[UnaBombaH]

If either of Zantetsu/Luca flip town btw, you need to reconsider Norwegian D4.
For now, I'd consider him townbinned.

I'm going to check (and protect) Norwegian tonight anyway - can't protect our PT-cop with my simple mind.

[UnaBombaH]

You nasty.

[UnaBombaH]

Might be yea.
Would be interesting to see whether Zantetsu thinks Luca is a viable lynch, right?

[UnaBombaH]

If either of Zantetsu/Luca flip town btw, you need to reconsider Norwegian D4.
For now, I'd consider him townbinned.

I'm going to check (and protect) Norwegian tonight anyway - can't protect our PT-cop with my simple mind.

umm, might be better not to say who you're targeting? Although I'm probably getting killed tonight anyway...

Well, if scum have a roleblocker, we are screwed for our next actions anyway.
So getting it out in the open shouldn't change much.
They ought to kill one of the two of us next night anyway. 10/10 times.
Since I can't protect you, they might just as well kill you, since you might be able to reveal one more scum tonight.
Hence, I'm going to claim my target because the way things are, I'm going to be able to protect Norwegian tonight AND get us one more conf.town for the next days.
I do not see a downside in this.

[UnaBombaH]

Yea, they have to kill one of us, or we would get two conf.townies tonight.
They HAVE TO kill/roleblock you/me. Meaning that unless they have a roleblock, you are likely going to die, since you have a chance of getting a hard-ish guilty, while I can apparently only get innos in this game.

Do not tell who you are going to target so that the scum can't WIFOM us, but I think you ought to have a reasonable target more or less pointed out for you..
Checking Luca/72 makes no sense obv. because they have both claimed the hood anyway.

I'll townlock Norwegian tonight, and will keep protecting him afterwards until they kill me -> we should still have two conf.townies D3 -> one conf. townie D4.
It's a good spot for us no matter what.

[UnaBombaH]

We lynch Zantetsu.

Una target me.
Battle Mage target Egix96.

That’s my suggested actions.

This would've been my suggestion as well.
The only reason I don't want BattleMage to "lock" this as their action yet, is because it gives the scum the option to simply kill Egix if they are town.
Meaning that we don't get a usable result from BM, and there's still the WIFOM of whether he is really a town!PT-Cop or not.
So Battle Mage should consider checking someone else completely, and we might a get an inno instead.
Meaning that scum HAVE to kill either BM or me.

[UnaBombaH]

I want hard facts and a mechanical clear at this point.
Nothing already claimed should be debatable after the next two flips.

VOTE: Zantetsu

[UnaBombaH]

Both Una and mage target Norwegian, then.

This was my initial idea too, but I think it would be better if we targeted two completely different players.
If the last scum is egix, scum!Luca would definitely want us to do it like this.
Likewise, if Norwegian is scum, he would want us to split our focus and then kill me so that we can't guilty him.

Guess it's better to really focus one slot and lock it down as something.

[UnaBombaH]

Probably two scum in these five. Right now my gut is pulling me towards 72.

This is the only thing that gives some pause to my thoughts on scum!Luca.
I'd argue it's reasonable for the claimed hood to start suspecting each other around this time.

PTCop would get a "false" guilty on the scum who's in a neighborhood, and therefore not make it a 100% guilty on one town + give one scum a cover to work with.
My gut tells me that one of Luca/72 is likely scum.

And like said - for now I'd consider Norwegian town if/when Zantetsu flips scum.
The next move IMO is to lynch one of 72/Luca, unless there's a reads-based solve that actually makes sense to the majority.
Can't really plan further than that obviously.

[UnaBombaH]

Egix can target me.

Una and Mage target Looker.

Nope, this is where I disagree heavily.
There's still this weird world where you and Norwegian are scum together and we are not simply looking past that now that we are already down to the deep end with claims and roles, I want one of you three resolved.

I also dislike the fact that egix has to lock down a target.
We give him a free reign to choose a target, because his action and alignment are confirmed from the other end and have nothing to do with the targets alignment.

I want egix to target a more obscure slot at random, someone outside of 72, Luca, Norwegian and me.
Essentially Churros/Looker would make for good picks.
That way we eliminate the chance for scum!egix + scum!Luca, because someone else will confirm egix as town.

[UnaBombaH]

So basically, someone else than Luca will confirm egix as town, meaning that they are at least not scum together.

[UnaBombaH]

So with a red flip on Zantetsu today, we should still get someone confirming egix as town.
If that someone is outside of Norwegian/Luca/72 I would feel more comfortable with the claim.
Me and BM are not valid targets because one of us surely dies. If scum have a roleblocker, one of us dies and the other is blocked.
But then it would be ridiculous for egix to claim a roleblock, so we should absolutely get a confirmation from their target.

Meaning that we enter tomorrow with at least one more conf.town or scum, even if scum have a roleblocker.

[UnaBombaH]

Sorry to disappoint, but by the end of this Day I'm gonna have to pick one and stick with it.

Why though?
If no one claims you visited them, it's a 1v1 between you two then.
And if they do confirm your role, and it's anyone outside of the "current discussion", at least I'd feel better about it.
Because if it's someone like Luca who confirms you, I'd just feel paranoid about you two being the scumteam.

[UnaBombaH]

Neopolitan on town neighbor would give result "Luca is not a vanilla townie", since that's what neopolitan does -- gives positives on vanilla town and negatives on everything else.

Can someone confirm if this is how mechanically the role should work?

Lol, there's no need for anyone to confirm it to you.
Just check the official wiki, and see for yourself if you really think I would fake a quote from the wiki.

The only thing about my variation of the role, is that I'm "simple".
Meaning that while normally Neapolitan should get "not Vanilla Townie" for ALL OTHER ROLES, except for VT exactly, "simple Neapolitan" SHOULD get a "no result" for ALL PR's for both alignments.
Meaning that I'd get 100% guilties on MafiaGoons and 100% innos on VanillaTownies only.

But based on the wording FireBringer used, it seems like this game isn't working that way.
I'm seriously considering whether I should just not play any more games here if this is how reliable the wiki and normal guidelines really are.
I play normal games simply because I do not enjoy excessive roles, and want to have clear guidelines on how to interpret actions and results.
Wacky roles like mine are fine by themselves, but when it gets unclear "how modifiers affect the roles separately in a combined role"...it's just too much for me.

[UnaBombaH]

This makes sense now. Scum lynching town, then blaming the town lynch on mod error to avoid being lynched with a townie flip due to his 'report'

Una = scum
Luca = town

VOTE: Una

What are you doing?

[UnaBombaH]

Like, I still THINK my result SHOULD mean a guilty on Luca, but apparently the interpretation here is that my result ended up being NAI after all.
IF Luca were to be a town-neighbour here, I should've gotten a "no result".
Meaning that I think he still might be scum and my role-modifier doesn't work as intended, or you are both scum and just hastily came up with the story of a hood.

[UnaBombaH]

How have you come to the conclusion that Zantetsu is unlikely to be a neighbour/mason?

Oh my..72, if you are town here, please stop to read and think before posting more.
Check how Zantetsu reacted to BM saying he is in a PT.
He made it rather clear he was contesting the claim altogether.

[UnaBombaH]

Zantetsu-72-Luca might just be the team.
If that is really the case, I feel sorry for Luca.
If 72 is town here, I really hope they don't feel bad about this afterwards.
Because they are completely lost here.

[UnaBombaH]

Oh, I can come up with a LOT.
But I've made it a point here that whenever I'm a town-PR, I crumb early, make my claim later with the necessary quotes, and stick to it.
So no, I would never goof around with this as town, and scum!Una can play a lot better than you seem to think I could.

Do you mean, in this game, or on this site?

Are you saying you would never do that as scum? If not, why not? Why construct your meta to disadvantage your scum game?

It's not a disadvantage to my scumgame, it's an advantage to my towngame.
Anyone who goes through the trouble of meta'ing me, will find out that I do this consistently as town -> they are more likely to believe my claims.
I do not do it as scum.
I once crumbed Doc as scum, and guess what. I was scum!Doc.
I don't think it's a disadvantage to my scumgame. I'll just play scum from the VT-perspective to my best ability.

[UnaBombaH]

I need to take a ~24h break from this game now, but I'm confused about that Zantetsu-post as well.
All I can think of, is that they decided against me being a Cop after all and therefore didn't kill me.
What gives me hope though, is that I wasn't roleblocked either.

We still need to consider BMs claim as a guilty though, so we

will

lynch Zantetsu today.
No way around it.
Zantetsu today, and in the scenario where he flips town, BM is next.

[UnaBombaH]

scum!BM might actually make that gambit IF he felt like Luca was going to definitely be the lynch today, and Luca is their roleblocker.
That would fit with Zantetsu realizing my potential role (although it was wrong ) and me still not being roleblocked/killed.

[UnaBombaH]

Oooooh!
Our Jailkeeper might've JK'd Luca! O_O

[UnaBombaH]

From the wiki:

A Jailkeeper that simultaneously blocks and protects their target is considered Normal on mafiascum.net, provided that any mutual blocking scenarios are planned for during review.

Saudade thought he should protect Luca for the same reason I wanted to check/protect there.
And since Luca is their roleblocker, BM leaped into action to make sure we don't get two actions tonight.
#WorkingTheoryForWhenZantetsuFlipsTownAfterAll

[UnaBombaH]

It also fits the way they acted when I outed my result!!!
They felt 100% confident I had been blocked, and was talking out of my ass!

In this scenario, the team is Luca-BattleMage-72, or barring a mod mistake, Luca + BattleMage + ??

[UnaBombaH]

But hey, that's just a theory....a BattleMageMightBeScumAfterAll-theory.

[UnaBombaH]

The fact still remains that we kill the claimed guilty first, and the claimed investigator later if the result isn't correct.
I was just warming the other side of the coin prematurely - IF Zantetsu flips town, BM is scum.

MEANING that they had a weird need to fakeclaim and push for a specific lynch to happen today.

And that made me ask

"why?"

And to that, my only gut-hunch is that "Luca was under pressure for the first time and in risk of being the lynch today."
And and and.......

So if Zan flips town, we need to lynch BM tomorrow, but there's no risk in making preflip association reads here since there are only two outcomes, and they both sure have a "motivation->result" to think about.
I might have a building conf.bias going, sure.
But I'm also the most likely target for a NK tonight, so whatever conf.bias is building within me, it won't be a burden for the team for long.
People SHOULD feel good about potentially lynching Luca tomorrow, because he will fight his lynch to the end, and he is going to be good at it.
It's not going to be an easy task to get you hanged, alignments aside.

[UnaBombaH]

And remember, I REALLY hope Luca is town, because he can definitely be a powerhouse.

[UnaBombaH]

If/when Zant flip scum, we need more info and reads on 72/Luca.
I still think at least one of them is scum. I know it's not a MUST BE -thing, but I deem it likely if we really have a PT-cop.
That + how 72 acted.

And no one should forget the fact that

my result still SHOULD be a guilty on Luca.

When I flip my role, you can assess the combination yourselves.

The exact result was "not Vanilla Townie".

And being simple, I still say it should've been a "no result" if Luca is really a neighbor.

Meaning that Luca+72 is also still potentially a thing.

Luca saying he would never claim neighbors with their scumbuddy is still just WIFOM until we see flips.

[UnaBombaH]

With that being said, I'm ready to make my exit now.

Here's to hoping Norwegian and Luca are both just town, Churros & Co. will be more active in the coming days, and there's at least a dead thread for discussion.

VOTE: Zantetsu

[UnaBombaH]

We are still on the same dayphase?
I'm normally the one who wants too see things out patiently, but in this specific situation I do not see any need for it..

[UnaBombaH]

Not blaming the mod since I do not know what the full process/setup for modding a premade setup is, but I still hate this game.
Had my role worked as it ABSOLUTELY should have, I wouldn't have said anything about Luca D2.
From there on forwards, we would've had a completely different game in our hands assuming BattleMage would've done their selfish gambit anyway.

I normally despise "what if"ing when facing a loss, but when it's about rules and mechanics screwing you over, it makes me feel like I simply do not want to play the game.
That's all I have to say about that.

[UnaBombaH]

Churros seems like a cool dude, hope to see you more in the future.
Norwegian is solid as well, but I think you either need to tone down the sass, or just be nicer with your output. (not talking about this postgame-situation, but more about your D1/D2)
profii is always lovely, even if he was a bit apathetic this time around..?

Thanks to the mod for modding!

[UnaBombaH]

that actually had far less impact on the game then the force replacements. so much less I would say its pretty irrelevant.

You honestly can't say this since it absolutely affected the order of NK's from D2 onwards significantly.
It would've highlighted the fact that BattleMage can't die even with no other PR's claimed.
It would've potentially allowed for me to get actual innocents or guilties before outing my role. ( )

Denying the effect it had on the game doesn't lessen the screwup, no matter who's fault it was or wasn't.

[UnaBombaH]

I don't want to shit on u by saying this but ur role/ability had little influence on game events than a minor flux on day 2 in beginning of day between u and Luca. It dropped immediately off when Battle Mage claimed his guilty on his buddy.

Exactly.

If battle mage didn't claim his guilty then ur role/actions would probably have had more influence on day 2 events, but really reading through it. It was a minor speed bump in the game. And I can't say immediately that Battle Mage was influenced to fake a guilty on his ally based on u/Luca activity.

Exactly.
So if I had gotten a "no result", I wouldn't have outed myself/Luca, and Zantetsu would've still been lynched.

So again when I say "minor speedbump" its to mean that even if u stayed quiet about ur role with me giving u a "no result" action. I think Day ends the exact same way.

Exactly, we agree on this.

I think in night the scum had u pegged alredy as a PR too.

Sure, Zantetsu already said as much.
But he was the one who was advocating for my death, and yet I wasn't shot.
AND he was the one who would've been lynched D2.
So tell me why the scumteam would've shot me N2 then, since I wouldn't have outed any results and there was no more need for crumbing?
AND considering they obviously thought I had mislynch-value.

I am again saying as mod, I saw replacements of 2 players who were really active and strong town read on Day 4. Had more impact on the game, especially since one had an Innocent on the person town eventually lynched.

I'm not arguing this wasn't MORE impactful, but it's like saying that "because the second mistake was worse, the first one doesn't matter".
Especially since you can't say that the 2nd mistake would've ever taken place if the first hadn't.

[UnaBombaH]

^^Zantetsu clearly sees it the same way as I do.

[UnaBombaH]

Obv. you can be sassy, just work on that tone maybe?
Or, like said, tone it down a notch.
It's not only harder to cipher the tone and meaning from your posts, but also makes you come across rather hostile at times.

But hey, that's just my opinion. You do you

[UnaBombaH]

I know it's a bit late, but I was on hiatus when this game was being run. I guess I'll clear things up in regards to Una's role, in case anyone sees this in the future.

The Simple Combined Neapolitan Doctor was created to only be able to target Vanilla roles, and protect Vanilla Towns. Neapolitan receives Vanilla Town or Not Vanilla town, and since they were combined, any action that was successful would be protected. Simple, however, makes it so targeting any PR, would give a "No Result", since the action would fail. The Mafia Goon is able to be targeted because of the Simple modifier, and thus, the Mafia Goon would give the result "Not Vanilla Town", effectively making this role a Goon Cop/Vanilla Town Doctor combination.

THANK YOU, and this is all I ever wanted to hear.
Not excuses about how it didn't affect the game as much as I think it did.
OF COURSE IT AFFECTED THE GAME.
I could've potentially gotten way more reliable results that were actually worthy of outing, instead of falsely "guiltying" a townslot.

Now I don't feel as bad about this game or queue - knowing that this was simply a one-time slipup.