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[Klick]

Hiya, I'm replacing Blurry.

I've caught up to the end of D2, and these are the main takeaways I've gotten so far:

- holy shit this game needs some help
- notscience came in and was immediately very towny and you all should have just listened to him yesterday. I've agreed with most of his takes up to this point.
- DGB is getting away with doing far too little for this game and is probably just scum. Her claim isn't great, and the main thing I'm left wondering looking at it is

@DGB: What made you choose to target the Blurry slot N1 with your Voyeur shot?

- Pickaxe Pete has also done very little to inspire me with confidence and should at the very least be looked at intensely today, if not just lynched. DGB/Pete/X is the solve my brain is shortcutting itself into atm.
- I spent most of D1 thinking votato was really obvious town, but I've grown cold on that read upon reading D2. I didn't like his 'If gibus flips town...' conditional he threw in with his gibus vote.
- I have a few townreads of varying strengths other than notscience: Fwesnid looks town, and eyestott and Paragon had pretty good D2s. I had a
- I think the slot I came into reads as pretty obvious newbtown who couldn't face coming into D3 after YOLOing into a second quicklynch on town.

I'm kinda thinking massclaim might be the play here? Two PRs have flipped and another is claimed, I can't see a massclaim hurting at this point and town might get something valuable out of it.

[Klick]

I’ve been thinking overnight and I don’t see a way dgbs claim comes from scum. She wasn’t under pressure or anything. So I’m pretty confident that she’s both town and that scum has a watcher as well.

What would a Mafia 1-shot Voyeur be thinking after that N1 flip? I think there's an argument to be made that she's a Mafia 1-shot Voyeur and thought a Rolecop could be out there somewhere.
I know she said it was because she was waiting for the mod to respond to her, but I'm still suspicious of how long it took her to out that she was a 1-shot Voyeur. Quoting from her own signature, 'Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.' As a Town 1-shot Voyeur after seeing that flip, I would have outted immediately, even if the mod hadn't sent me results yet.

[Klick]

The way eyestott went back and forth early D2 on how he thought gibus was playing read genuine. He seems like he was actually trying to understand gibus.
Paragon had a read that gibus was scum trolling in twilight. I can buy that he believed that. I'm more sold on eyestott than Paragon but I got decent impressions of both of them.

[Klick]

Like I said, the biggest reason would be if her role is truthful but she suspects there might be a Rolecop or something in the setup that would encourage her to come forward.
I don't really see the claim as a towntell the same way you do. I don't think there's sufficient reason to NOT claim as scum there.

Not really sure how to feel about DP. I liked/resonated with some of their early theory talk, but haven't felt strongly about them since. Which probably isn't a great sign. But DGB and Pete have stood out more as questionable in that archetype of player, if that makes sense.

[Klick]

Hello, the last couple of days have been busy for me, it'll be brief but I'll finish my catchup tonight.

Im a VT.

IMO Pickaxe Pete should be claiming much earlier than he is in that order

[Klick]

Hi, I'm here. Had to do a final last night that lasted way longer than expected.
Reading now, but odds are like 50-50 that my son won't let me finish.

[Klick]

Reading in context notscience really clearly was softing an inno on DGB in his first post today. That lends some credit to his claim there.

[Klick]

My questions open to everyone actually.

whos scum on the QQ wagon?

Situations like these have all town terrible wagons far more often than they should. I've seen it at least a couple of times in the ~8 games I've played recently, and considering the relatively low number of bad wagons there are per game...

Scum LOVE staying off the mislynch.

If I had to say one of the people on the QQ wagon was scum, it'd be votato. The other two are town.
I'm not totally sure why the frame here is just the QQ wagon and not the gibus wagon though.

[Klick]

None of this says that Blurry scum but also I can't find anything that points to Blurry being town.

VOTE: blurry

???

[Klick]

Waiting on Pete too, a bit nervous about of the amount of town power at this point however.

Why were you worried at this point? Lots of 1-shot roles, including yours, didn't seem particularly unbalanced when it was just the JK, the two 1-shot Voyeurs, Pete's soft and your role.

[Klick]

Waiting on Pete too, a bit nervous about of the amount of town power at this point however.

Why were you worried at this point? Lots of 1-shot roles, including yours, didn't seem particularly unbalanced when it was just the JK, the two 1-shot Voyeurs, Peter's soft and your role.

[Klick]

You are viewing it simply as “only kill people that explicitly suspect you” and in reality it’s not that simple

From this lens, votato looks rather bad actually

[Klick]

Paragon, where did you go last night?

Oh, interesting. I went nowhere.

Hey, eyestott! I reckon I'll repay the favour in this game if you catch my drift.

In 2125 eyestott did you a solid with a clear. I read this as saying that you should have two clears. We're in a position where we need them. So I'm either sheeping you today or voting you.

Lul, good job spotting that.

My intention with that entirely was to soft an investigative PR with that post, hope scum!eyestott or other scum catch on, and then nightkill me (a meh slot). So much for that though.

I actually rather liked this
It was a really heavy soft in context, fitting for trying to get NK'd

[Klick]

Actually, it's pretty obvious you're tracker at this point, Pete. Scum will know for a fact if they're not oblivious, so out with your claim. I have more thoughts to give after you claim.

You softed a PR that you didn't think anyone would pick up on. When called on it, you thought I might be running a gambit to get you to claim. Now you want me to claim.

I catch your drift

Did you miss this? I think you did and that you may be scum.

VOTE: Paragon

The Paragon fake soft situation was starting to get me to townread Pete, but him pointing out beforehand that he saw Paragon's soft sort of takes that away.

[Klick]

Which sounds more plausiible? Softing a PR that one person, who may or may not be scum, would pick up on to draw a night kill or setting up a pocket on a townie?

The first, by miles...
Like the play actually makes a lot of sense? And it fits with how Paragon's personality seems

[Klick]

i dont see any upside for town!paragon to run this gambit. I also don't see any motivation for scum!paragon to do it.

Oh, I just had a look at the VCs and nightkills, and votato was both Drew-Sta and Atarashi's biggest scumread for most of the game.

A LOT points towards votato being scum:

VOTE: votato

Unless Paragon and votato were buddies, I don't see Paragon!scum voting votato!Town right after votato expresses a null take on Paragon's play. Paragon!scum just doesn't have the flexibility at this point in the Day to be that careless about potentially getting on votato's bad side.

I'm not going to be lynching Paragon today, as the narrative seems to be pushing that way recently.

[Klick]

i dont see any upside for town!paragon to run this gambit.

Getting nightkilled as a VT and kinda overall scumleaned slot?

You guys are silly.

Oh, I just had a look at the VCs and nightkills, and votato was both Drew-Sta and Atarashi's biggest scumread for most of the game.

A LOT points towards votato being scum:

VOTE: votato

Also these posts were like an hour apart, implying he was actually putting effort into reading through the game and decided to point this out.
I don't think that fits great with a Paragon!scum mindset.

[Klick]

Not worried about fwesnid right now. [paragon,blurry,drippinggoofball]

This is a bad list.
It's the three emptiest slots (besides I guess eyestott) and they're probably all town.

[Klick]

{Pete, votato, Dolly, eyestott} is where my PoE seems to be leading me so far.

[Klick]

Still catching up. I will not be voting paragon.
Though, to be honest para, I misinterpreted your softie, so even if I were scum, I wouldn’t have picked up on it and NKed you for it.

Though if I were scum, I definitely would’ve NKed you anyway.

Good stuff

[Klick]

@NotSci

Can you please vote someone else?

I would want to vote blurry first but I reckon we should wait on him to return or be replaced.

DGB
Fwes
Vot
are the other remaining from the VCA but with the speed wagon yesterday I don't feel it's reliable.

I still really don't like the frame of limiting your perspective just based on who was on one of the two quicklynches, and at this point it looks like Dolly could be doing it in lieu of actually being able to scumhunt.

[Klick]

@DGB: What made you choose to target the Blurry slot N1 with your Voyeur shot?

Not much, really. If I hadn't been so sure I'd be nightkilled N1, I would have held on to the Voyeur for another night when I could have made a more considered choice.

Why would you be worried about this? You were far from locktown in anyone's eyes D1. Just because of your reputation? Does anyone in this game know you?

[Klick]

- I think the slot I came into reads as pretty obvious newbtown who couldn't face coming into D3 after YOLOing into a second quicklynch on town.

That is scummy AF

Locking a town read on oneself based on speculation of what one's predecessor was thinking.

It's funny though.

This tell deserves its own name.

Why is it scummy? What makes scum more likely to do it than town?
I think anyone with a decent amount of recent experience genuinely trying to get a read on Blurry would at least be seeing some strong reasons to think she was newbtown.

[Klick]

im an x-shot roleblocker. no comment on blocks remaining. if needed i can reveal x.

Roleblocker stands out in this setup. It's primary purpose seems to be to block the myriad of mostly town roles. Combine that with a full JK and I think votato could just be scum.

[Klick]

Didn't crumb though you could consider 502 a soft.

Watcher
Night 1 I watched atarashi, no visits.
Night 2 I watched notsci, no result.
(Picked townreads that were also shared, obviously)

I supported mass claim because it was likely I die tonight with how this game's going, and I had assumed pete was tracker who would get roleblocked.

And if we mishang and I did catch a scum I question if I would be believed coming out with a cc in lylo with no other info.

Holy shit yeah, with this amount of investigative power scum almost certainly have a Ninja.

[Klick]

I’m a 1-shot watcher. I didn’t use it because I had no idea who the mafia would target with their night kill.
And hey, I’m 1-shot bulletproof too.
I didn’t really “crumb” this game, even though I’ve done so in the other games I’ve been in that are now finished
Other than me saying that the mod didn’t respond to my pms at the start of the game. I was asking him if
A) I can use my watcher ability to target myself
B) I’ll be informed if I lose my bulletproof ability
Dolly and Fwesnid should be able to confirm the answers to each of these are no.

This is a weiiiiird claim.

[Klick]

Like what even is the role name? 1-shot Bulletproof 1-shot Watcher?

[Klick]

I feel like that argument trails into WIFOM really easily. I'm not convinced.

[Klick]

I'm caught up now. Here's where I seem to be at:

TOWN
Paragon
DGB
notscience
Fwesnid

LEFT
Pete
Dolly
eyestott
votato

I'm not great at the setup spec game, but I'm inclined to believe the Watcher needs to be town for this to be balanced, especially considering my townread on Paragon.

I'd happily lynch any of the bottom four I think. This claim looks the worst to me at the moment:
VOTE: eyestott

[Klick]

Actually
UNVOTE:
VOTE: votato

It probably makes sense to leave eyestott alive for today and direct his action (it's probably best for him to watch Fwesnid tonight).

[Klick]

Night 1 I watched atarashi, no visits.
Night 2 I watched notsci, no result.

Wait, were you explicitly given no result? As in, you know you were blocked?

[Klick]

Because that contradicts what eyestott said earlier about things you'd know about the Watcher wction

[Klick]

Wait no, he said he wouldn't know if he lost the Bulletproof ability.

notscience how do you know that DGB was blocked last night

[Klick]

N1*

Damn I need more sleep.

[Klick]

Night 1 I watched atarashi, no visits.
Night 2 I watched notsci, no result.

Wait, were you explicitly given no result? As in, you know you were blocked?

I would definitely like to hear an answer to this though

[Klick]

VC 3.2

Pickaxe Pete (2) -

votato, Klick

Paragon (1) -

Pickaxe Pete

Dolly Parton (1) -

notscience

DrippingGoofball (1) -

Dolly Parton

votato (1) -

Paragon

Not Voting (3) -

DrippingGoofball, eyestott, Fwesnid

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to hammer.
Day 3 ends in

(expired on 2020-05-23 06:04:44)

Game Notes

-

- p.s. I'm sorry for doing the "drop vc then drop dead on the bed" routine yet again.

@Mod: My vote is on votato, not Pickaxe Pete.

[Klick]

Your question to dgb was her top 3 scum and she literally said you and klick last page?

And stop being a drama queen Jesus

Where is the 3rd pick then?

That's a lazy answer anyways. I just DON'T get why people are pushing me anyways.

is it

B

ecause I'm

P

retty?

This game is like walking with wet shoes and pants through a dry dry dry desert.

Dgb this is the post in question and like I said it was after we discussed massclaiming

@dolly everyone has claimed everything so who’s claims are fake? Why?

Do you have a nice and neat list of the claims and who claimed them?

But just going on gut, I think there is scum in the VT claims. I don't see all scum claiming a PR. Also, I believe the BP/Watcher claim for reasons.

Dolly/eyestott/votato, then?

[Klick]

But just going on gut, I think there is scum in the VT claims.

Probably ONE goon in that lot.

What is Paragon's claim? I might have missed it.

If we think theres scum in there and we think it isnt klick we are pretty safe to lynch both paragon and pete here. Theyre both in my lynchpool here anyway

I don't know why Klick isn't suspicious. Their Day 2 and Day 3 catch ups were, umm... interesting. And we can't forget that that's Blurry's slot.

This is a lot of shade without actually saying anything that you think makes me scummy. What is your actual read on this slot, and why?
What don't you like about my D2/3 catchup?

PEdit: Dolly's pushing the 'I think there's scum in the VTs' angle, which would be pretty convenient from a position of having a scumteam that all claimed PRs.

[Klick]

If the scumteam is you/eyestott/votato you have a very good reason to get town to lynch a VT claim.

Paragon is town. I could really easily see Pete-scum and I'm not opposed to voting there today, but I have a slight preference for sorting within the claimed PRs because I think it would give us more info overall regardless of whether we lynch town or scum today.

Talk about why you 'have reason' to believe eyestott. Now is not the time for hiding info.

[Klick]

If the scumteam is you/eyestott/votato you have a very good reason to get town to lynch a VT claim.

Paragon is town. I could really easily see Pete-scum and I'm not opposed to voting there today, but I have a slight preference for sorting within the claimed PRs because I think it would give us more info overall regardless of whether we lynch town or scum today.

Talk about why you 'have reason' to believe eyestott. Now is not the time for hiding info.

I'm not hiding anything. Its all there.

Make it really clear for me please, since I've clearly missed it.

[Klick]

Paragon had a read that gibus was scum trolling in twilight. I can buy that he believed that. I'm more sold on eyestott than Paragon but I got decent impressions of both of them.

Paragon, where did you go last night?

Oh, interesting. I went nowhere.

Hey, eyestott! I reckon I'll repay the favour in this game if you catch my drift.

In 2125 eyestott did you a solid with a clear. I read this as saying that you should have two clears. We're in a position where we need them. So I'm either sheeping you today or voting you.

Lul, good job spotting that.

My intention with that entirely was to soft an investigative PR with that post, hope scum!eyestott or other scum catch on, and then nightkill me (a meh slot). So much for that though.

I actually rather liked this
It was a really heavy soft in context, fitting for trying to get NK'd

i dont see any upside for town!paragon to run this gambit. I also don't see any motivation for scum!paragon to do it.

Oh, I just had a look at the VCs and nightkills, and votato was both Drew-Sta and Atarashi's biggest scumread for most of the game.

A LOT points towards votato being scum:

VOTE: votato

Unless Paragon and votato were buddies, I don't see Paragon!scum voting votato!Town right after votato expresses a null take on Paragon's play. Paragon!scum just doesn't have the flexibility at this point in the Day to be that careless about potentially getting on votato's bad side.

I'm not going to be lynching Paragon today, as the narrative seems to be pushing that way recently.

i dont see any upside for town!paragon to run this gambit.

Getting nightkilled as a VT and kinda overall scumleaned slot?

You guys are silly.

Oh, I just had a look at the VCs and nightkills, and votato was both Drew-Sta and Atarashi's biggest scumread for most of the game.

A LOT points towards votato being scum:

VOTE: votato

Also these posts were like an hour apart, implying he was actually putting effort into reading through the game and decided to point this out.
I don't think that fits great with a Paragon!scum mindset.

Here are the reasons I townread Paragon.

[Klick]

Her style of asking questions she doesn't follow up on kinda bugs.

MAYBE BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE YOU JUST IGNORE THEM!

This is extremely hypocritical considering you've ignored my question about why you have reason to believe eyestott twice.

VOTE: Dolly Parton

[Klick]

An answer that vague is only going to keep my vote on you all day. You're going to be clear, or you're going to be lynched.

[Klick]

'clear' as in 'lucid' or 'not cryptic'.

[Klick]

Is the answer that she's also a 1-shot Watcher

[Klick]

Oh Dolly Parton is Frozen Angel isn't she

[Klick]

But just going on gut, I think there is scum in the VT claims.

Probably ONE goon in that lot.

What is Paragon's claim? I might have missed it.

If we think theres scum in there and we think it isnt klick we are pretty safe to lynch both paragon and pete here. Theyre both in my lynchpool here anyway

I don't know why Klick isn't suspicious. Their Day 2 and Day 3 catch ups were, umm... interesting. And we can't forget that that's Blurry's slot.

This is a lot of shade without actually saying anything that you think makes me scummy. What is your actual read on this slot, and why?
What don't you like about my D2/3 catchup?

Pete

I would appreciate a response to this.

[Klick]

That's fine, there's still a decent chunk of Day left.

[Klick]

An answer that

vague

is only going to keep my vote on you all day. You're going to be

clear

, or you're going to be lynched.

The bolded words are antonyms

[Klick]

I thought I was pretty clear tbh

[Klick]

I think it's not genuine at all, but sadly also probably NAI.

[Klick]

I thought I was pretty clear tbh

I think Dolly's misunderstanding is probably genuine and NAI.

I think it's not genuine at all, but sadly also probably NAI.

It was genuine. iirc, we were talking about my "clear" on eyes during our back and forth. Maybe that was on my mind and why I connected the the mafiascum version of clear.

But I really don't want to talk about the semantics of that post anymore. It has nothing to do with my reads on eyes, klick or anyone else that commented about it.

You're the one who made them relevant in the first place; you can't remove the post from its context. 'Oh shit I've been caught BSing, we can't talk about that anymore' doesn't cut it.

If you wanted this part of the conversation to end, there's a pretty easy way to do that (by saying why you have reason to believe eyestott is town).

[Klick]

If you're going to stubbornly refuse to clarify what you meant about eyestott, I'm going to stubbornly leave my vote here until you're lynched.

[Klick]

Dolly, do you really believe you've caught Klick and that he meant the alignment-related "clear"?

?

Yes

I thought I was pretty clear tbh

I think Dolly's misunderstanding is probably genuine and NAI.

I think it's not genuine at all, but sadly also probably NAI.

It was genuine. iirc, we were talking about my "clear" on eyes during our back and forth. Maybe that was on my mind and why I connected the the mafiascum version of clear.

But I really don't want to talk about the semantics of that post anymore. It has nothing to do with my reads on eyes, klick or anyone else that commented about it.

Your scumread on me blatantly does come in part from the semantics of that post. You're backtracking.

[Klick]

What makes you think dolly town dgb? Help me see the light?

She said Klick is 100% scum.

Actually I'm reconsidering this

Maybe Klick is her scumpal.

She's reacting heavy-handedly; judging by how her personality seems (the whole 'diva' persona thing) she would probably be doing it as either alignment right now. What's readable in that content is her motives. Her actions currently:

- protect eyestott
- set up a push on me
- imply extra role information without explicitly claiming it

The first implies she's scum with eyestott, unless she can provide a valid town reason to protect him. The second means she'd like me to be the lynch today; without knowing I'm town it's not impossible that this is a bus, but it would be sloppy and the simpler explanation is that she's trying to mislynch me, especially in this gamestate where things have been relatively stalled for most of the game. The third gives her the opportunity to spice up her claim at will without consequence; scum has MUCH more motivation to have this at their disposal than town.

[Klick]

Also, since you are a VT, would you like to explain how you visited Atar last night?

Thank you for making my job much easier.

We're now lynching between me and Dolly today. I think my slot is significantly townier than Dolly, both today and from Blurry.

[Klick]

And if you'd like to know exactly what I've been doing for the last half hour, I've been helping Bellaphant with the final level of one of the routes in Fire Emblem: Three Houses.

[Klick]

(To be perfectly clear, I did not visit Atarashi last night.)

[Klick]

I also used the word 'clear' on purpose tbf XD

[Klick]

I'm trying to post a Thunderdome meme but I can't make it work on my phone

I'm gonna leave so that we don't shit up the thread too much

Good talk, scum

[Klick]

Also, since you are a VT, would you like to explain how you visited Atar last night?

I never said I had a clear or guilty on anyone.

[Klick]

She tried to fake a guilty on me and backpeddled when she realized it probably doesn't end well for her scumteam.

Where's the Doc crumb?

[Klick]

Eyestott and Fwesnid need to claim their results tonight as their first posts of the day.

[Klick]

Awesome. Really fortunate that you both targeted notscience and got a result - I thought notsci was the obvious NK choice but also that if scum were going to do it, they would have some way to work around you.

I'd prefer to see eyestott's result and at least make sure we don't have anything to coordinate before we lynch.

[Klick]

TOWN
Paragon
DGB
notscience
Fwesnid

LEFT
Pete
Dolly
eyestott
votato

2/3 so far.

[Klick]

Pete submitting the NK implies the other scum is better-positioned than him. Which I guess doesn't mean all that much? But it's worth considering.

[Klick]

Oh wait it sort of implies eyestott-town that Fwesnid didn't die. Scum could have avoided this guilty if they just killed Fwesnid, but they didn't. Which means they were afraid to. And the only reason they'd be afraid to is if they believed eyestott would catch them.

[Klick]

unused. There wasnt much to go on, but i thought i'd probably be alive long enough to use it later with more info.

Do you still have your RB shot?

[Klick]

Assuming Fwesnid is choosing to fake a guilty on you, who is his partner and why?

[Klick]

eyestott logged into the site before Night ended.

[Klick]

eyestott logged into the site before Night ended.

He may have, but according to the VCs, he was inactive in this game.

The VCs have not been particularly reliable in this game.

@Mod: Did you mean to include that you were prodding eyestott at the start of today?

Awesome. Really fortunate that you both targeted notscience and got a result - I thought notsci was the obvious NK choice but also that if scum were going to do it, they would have some way to work around you.

I'd prefer to see eyestott's result and at least make sure we don't have anything to coordinate before we lynch.

What do you mean that "you both targeted notscience?"

he both:

1. targeted notscience
and
2. got a result

as opposed to either of those things not happening.

[Klick]

No more votes on Pickaxe yet, please. He could hammer if he hits L-1 and we have more to do today.

[Klick]

I really don't see the motivation for faking a guilty on a vt.

This is the main reason I'm confident he's just scum fwiw. Especially since Fwesnid!scum would be in a fine spot going into today and Pete would be a likely lynch without a guilty on him.

@votato

Do you still have your RB shot?

PEdit: If you're scum you're fairly likely to self-hammer the moment you hit L-1.

[Klick]

Who did you use it on last night, then?

[Klick]

Why did you use it last night?

[Klick]

I think it's Pickaxe/votato.

[Klick]

A Klick/Dolly scumteam is able to pull off a lynch yesterday that isn't in Klick/Dolly/{Fwesnid, Pickaxe}. Dolly imploded after I amped up the pressure on her slot. You can claim WIFOM to that, but I have no reason to bus Dolly yesterday when I claimed several other players were equally likely to be scum.

[Klick]

Why did you use [the RB shot] last night?

@votato

[Klick]

I remember the last time someone used conjecture to suggest my rather normal actions were scummy:

conversing in the scum thread I assume.

DGB, talk to me about votato!town. I want to believe it, but I'm not convinced and I'm running out of options. Scum clearly have a gated Roleblocker and I'm struggling to find town motivation in votato using their shot last night. Meanwhile, I can think of a pretty strong reason to claim to have used up the shot last night as scum.

[Klick]

That's an odd take. Most of the replacements have been super net positive for this game's mojo.

[Klick]

Tbf I didn't check how many replacements there had been, I only remembered myself and notscience and since your predecessor didn't do much I forgot you replaced in. Now that I've checked, I'll give you that. All*.

[Klick]

If anything, Fwesnid claiming first is a point in his favor - we already know this setup doesn't shy away from doubling up

[Klick]

You'd be much more likely to stop the NK if you used your RB shot as late as possible. I don't think that would pass you by.

[Klick]

Especially since you went through that thought process yourself here:

unused. There wasnt much to go on, but i thought i'd probably be alive long enough to use it later with more info.

[Klick]

Scanning your ISO, you also don't seem to suspect me going into last night, and you acknowledge that I don't appear to be scum in the public eye:

If we think theres scum in there

and we think it isnt klick

we are pretty safe to lynch both paragon and pete here. Theyre both in my lynchpool here anyway

Why would you go into last night thinking that I was not only scum, but also the scum member who would submit a NK in a game with at least one Watcher for scum!Klick to dodge?

Enough things don't add up about that action that I'm finding it really difficult to swallow.

[Klick]

Basically, using the action last night in the way that votato did has no real town utility; his actions don't make sense if he's town. Meanwhile, they make a

ton

of sense as scum - claiming to have used it now instead of after his partner is lynched means he doesn't have to clear anyone as town. And he claimed he used the RB

after

Fwesnid claimed his guilty.

It's Pete/votato.

[Klick]

Also note how long it took votato to respond to each of my questions about his role.

unused. There wasnt much to go on, but i thought i'd probably be alive long enough to use it later with more info.

Do you still have your RB shot?

I ask here the first time, and he ignores it.

I then ask again in 1108, and he takes 13 minutes to answer.
I ask him who he used it on three minutes later, and it takes him ten minutes to respond to that.
I then ask him why he did it and he disappears.
Note that Pete is very likely to still be around, considering he posted 1107 three minutes before my 1108.

Conclusion: I think they were working out how to answer my questions in the scum PT.

[Klick]

I suggested eyestott use the Watcher shot on Fwesnid yesterday - obviously we don't know whether he actually did so yet.

PEdit: both Voyeurs are 1-shot.

[Klick]

I'm assuming the absolute silence all day means you all agree with my case on the Pickaxe/votato team.

[Klick]

I enjoy how you're abandoning the concept of Klick!town and heavily implying a Fwesnid/Klick scumteam while also insisting we consider you as town today.

If you're town, this game currently needs a miracle for us to win. You're wasting your efforts tunneling on me when you went into the start of the day thinking I was an unlikely partner to Dolly.

Where does your Paragon townread come from? You seemed to pull it out of nowhere the moment the guilty was claimed on you, when before that he was in your PoE pool.

[Klick]

If what you were getting at is that I (or my predecessor) was supposed to post any results...I'm afraid I have nothing.

As far as I am aware, I still have both my watch and my BP status.

That's perfect.

If Pete is scum:
KAAG watches Fwesnid
Fwesnid watches who he thinks the NK will be

If Pete is town:
KAAG watches who he thinks the NK will be

Does anyone have objections to this?

[Klick]

I see Notscience claimed inno on DGB as a weak watcher. Any reason I should doubt this? DGB clear?

DGB is clear, yes.

KAAG's catchup looks towny to me.

[Klick]

I enjoy how you're abandoning the concept of Klick!town and heavily implying a Fwesnid/Klick scumteam while also insisting we consider you as town today.

If you're town, this game currently needs a miracle for us to win. You're wasting your efforts tunneling on me when you went into the start of the day thinking I was an unlikely partner to Dolly.

Where does your Paragon townread come from? You seemed to pull it out of nowhere the moment the guilty was claimed on you, when before that he was in your PoE pool.

I appreciate how you didn't engage with this at all Pete.

I'm ready for a lynch when everyone else is.

[Klick]

I'm currently reading his actions as trying to keep open as many potential partners to him as possible. I wanted to see if he'd entertain the possibility of me being town, but he seems more interested in pushing a narrative for after he dies than trying to get out of a lynch today.

Keeping in mind that scum have daytalk, I don't think my actions with either Dolly or Pete synchronize the way they would if I were scum with them. Dolly and Pete have both had agendas in the last two days that I have not really lined up with.

In other words - what is a Dolly/Pete/Klick scumteam trying to accomplish in the last two days? A double-suicide leading to me surviving both lynches, with both of them trying to bus me as they go down? That's the sort of thing that looks fun in theory but just isn't effective in practice. When I replaced in this game was super dead and the odds of a town win looked slim. There just isn't motive to both liven up the game and implode the scumteam upon coming in. It would be bad play.

[Klick]

'm currently reading his actions as trying to keep open as many potential partners to him as possible. I

You say this, and you also say I'm tunnelling you, which I am.

I'm really only considering you and maybe votato as the third scum. The paragon TR, just like the KA TR, is a matter of process of elimination.

This doesn't match with the reads you posted

right before

that PoE. Your PoE before that was Paragon, eyestott, and maybe me. What changed?

[Klick]

'disingenuous' and 'insincere' are fun buzzwords in place of actual reasons for thinking I'm scum.

You put Paragon in your townpool randomly before he posted anything about the Watcher thing today. Your flip in read there happens without basis.

VOTE: Pickaxe Pete
At this point I don't think there's much more to be gained from today.

[Klick]

That's a fair point actually.

If Pete is scum,
KAAG watches Fwesnid
Fwesnid watches who he thinks will be the NK.

If Pete is town,
KAAG holsters.

[Klick]

I have a vote for you, but now is not the time for me to give it either.

[Klick]

That works for me - it'll fulfill my Lyncher wincon as well.

[Klick]

Oh, it looks like that was a hammer.

[Klick]

I think some games let you do fast night if every living player tells the mod they want it during the night. I wonder if we could manage that?

[Klick]

If Pete is scum,
KAAG watches Fwesnid
Fwesnid watches who he thinks will be the NK.

If Pete is town,
KAAG holsters.

[Klick]

I wish Pete had engaged with me at all yesterday. Something felt odd about him putting in a lot of effort vs Fwesnid doing fuck all.

We lynch Fwesnid today. I don't know what much else there is to discuss. I think the partner is likely to be votato, but I'm not certain.

KAAG should probably not disclose what he's doing tonight, considering we don't really have a clear?

[Klick]

I think I'd like a check-in from everyone at least once before we lynch.

[Klick]

Unvote - Fwesnid can self-hammer.

[Klick]

Are you sure your result started with a P after all instead of a K

[Klick]

To clarify, 1277 was me taking the piss

[Klick]

There is one other person in this game who was so fucking vague with their claim

You know what alignment they flipped?

[Klick]

It also seems like you only opened up the possibility of not having used the RB shot in response to everyone suspecting you for it.

[Klick]

I've been waiting for votato to do anything resembling town play, but I suppose he's had plenty of time.

VOTE: Fwesnid

[Klick]

I mean if it's Paragon/KAAG then this town has just played terribly at so many different moments and I don't feel any personal shame in losing at that point.
The odds are very slim that you're actually town here.

[Klick]

Oh, it looks like that was a hammer.

Sorry to crush your dreams scum, but I suspect Night might come sooner if I do this.

[Klick]

Maybe Night 5 could be only 24 hours, since over 24 hours have already passed since hammer?

[Klick]

You haven't really engaged him once since that post.

Did you learn/read something from your test? Odd that I have to ask you to elaborate, most people would just have put this in the last reply.

votato has had a very long time to reply to this.

[Klick]

Same, I've been in contact with him for a couple of rounds. He said if Saladman wasn't back by this morning American time then he'd step in.

[Klick]

It doesn't have to require a lot of effort if you're town. The question is not a hard one.

[Klick]

You'd have given it a while ago if it existed
Surely you have a tl;dr of your thoughts?

[Klick]

You should elaborate. For example, who is scum? What are the basic claim reasons for why? What in this description can I tell isn't made up on the spot?

[Klick]

Probably KAAG

Asking implosion what happens if we get stuck in a no-lynch-no-kill loop. Regardless, best play should probably be no-lynching here.

[Klick]

why do you say KAAG?

I was making a coy jab at you being scum who shot KAAG last night

KAAG, LyLo is strictly better for town than MyLo is by numbers. Three town all have to correctly identify scum from 3 possible options in MyLo, while in LyLo only two have to get it right from 2 options. Unless you basically already have caught scum, I strongly advise letting this go to LyLo.

[Klick]

Scum having a choice in how they make our lives easier doesn't change the fact that they'd be making our lives easier by narrowing the possibilities.

[Klick]

It's a moot point now, yeah. It's a solid theory argument that I'd strongly defend if it were still relevant to this game.

It should be obvious which way I'm leaning, but I'm not certain I'm right. I'll reread soon.

[Klick]

You still around KAAG?

[Klick]

Do you still have your BP?

[Klick]

A quick answer would be ideal.

[Klick]

As far as I am aware, I still have both my watch and my BP status.

This pings me a bit then, though I could still plausibly see it coming from town.

[Klick]

I still haven't come to terms with the fact that Fwesnid was scum. I should go look at his interactions.

I'm curious what Paragon will think. This result hasn't told me a ton - Paragon has been obvtown for a while - but yeah I do think it's likely to just be votato. Just want to make sure I'm not missing anything.

[Klick]

The same thing had me pause. There are little crumbs of things in both KAAG's and eyestott's play that I could see from a scum PoV, but the main difference is that I can also see them coming from town. Whereas a lot of votato stuff is just a head-scratcher if he's town.

[Klick]

Reading into the KAAG/eyestott slot is difficult due to the lack of content until D4. I tried for a bit overnight but didn't really get anywhere.
One of the things that stands out about the slot is that it claimed 1xBP and 1xWatcher after both Dolly and Fwesnid individually fakeclaimed. This post by eyestott is odd:

I’m a 1-shot watcher. I didn’t use it because I had no idea who the mafia would target with their night kill.
And hey, I’m 1-shot bulletproof too.
I didn’t really “crumb” this game, even though I’ve done so in the other games I’ve been in that are now finished
Other than me saying that the mod didn’t respond to my pms at the start of the game. I was asking him if
A) I can use my watcher ability to target myself
B) I’ll be informed if I lose my bulletproof ability

Dolly and Fwesnid should be able to confirm the answers to each of these are no.

In context, I'm wondering if he was trying to individually add credit to both of their claims. Otherwise, how do they wind up fake-claiming both individual parts of eyestott's role?

[Klick]

That's... A bit sketcher than it looked when I was writing it up, actually.
Hmm.

[Klick]

I think votato's play has been very questionable if town, but not totally outside of conceivable town range.

[Klick]

I haven't looked at votato town games yet, but he isn't wrong that his scum game looks significantly different than this. I'd love a second opinion on that Paragon.

[Klick]

• QuantumQuasar was lynched day 1. They were a
  Town Jailkeeper
  .
  
• Drew-Sta
  was killed night 1. He was a
  Town 1-Shot Voyeur
  .
  
• gibus
  was lynched day 2. He was a
  Vanilla Townie
  .
  
• Atarashi Hajimari
  was killed night 2. He was a
  Vanilla Townie
  .
  
• Dolly Parton
  was lynched day 3. She was a
  Mafia Goon.
  .
  
• notscience
  was killed night 3. He was a
  Town 1-Shot Weak Follower
  .
  
• Pickaxe Pete
  was lynched day 4. He was a
  Vanilla Townie
  .
  
• DrippingGoofball
  was killed night 4. She was a
  Town 1-Shot Voyeur
  .
  
• Fwesnid
  was lynched day 5. He was a
  Mafia Goon.

What fills out the role list? Town 1-Shot Bulletproof 1-Shot Watcher, or Town 1-Shot Roleblocker?
I currently lean towards the latter.

[Klick]

Lastly, I'm not really sure why Fwesnid would make the Watcher fake guilty play to set up votato for endgame. With votato as a partner, that play looks game-losing. With KAAG as a partner it makes marginally more sense - that slot has had little attention on it all game.
Also worth noting that I think DGB would be far more likely to still be alive if votato were scum. I was convinced before Pete died that 3p LyLo would wind up being me/DGB/votato.

[Klick]

I'm Hoctac

Neat! I was pressed by your play in the Neighbor game.

[Klick]

impressed*

[Klick]

I'm now wondering why eyestott claims both parts of his role the way he did if he's scum and is somewhat expecting his buddies to die before LyLo.

[Klick]

Fwiw Paragon I don't think I'll need this to drag on. Maybe another 2-3 days, but beyond that I don't feel like I'll get much worthwhile out of overanalysing. But if you want to take extra time to feel confident and then we compare thoughts, that's fine.

[Klick]

It's worth noting that votato wasn't under heavy suspicion until AFTER Fwesnid faked the guilty. So he made that move in the gamestate before votato was being scrutinised, meaning he probably thought votato was at least neutrally likely to survive LyLo.
I'm also wondering how likely he is to make that move while his partner is totally absent from the slot.

[Klick]

Ordered readlist is this right now.
Atarashi
notsci
Goofball
Dolly
eyestott
Paragon
Blurry
Pete
Votato

This is a fun reads list with the information we have now.

[Klick]

Eyes/dolly/para/klick
Should have all scum maybe ?

This is neat too

[Klick]

Lastly, I'm not really sure why Fwesnid would make the Watcher fake guilty play to set up votato for endgame. With votato as a partner, that play looks game-losing. With KAAG as a partner it makes marginally more sense - that slot has had little attention on it all game.
Also worth noting that I think DGB would be far more likely to still be alive if votato were scum. I was convinced before Pete died that 3p LyLo would wind up being me/DGB/votato.

That's a good point. Why does Fwensid claim that guilty? Maybe because he's a goon so would eventually be caught out by continuously "missing" the kills and not dying for whatever reason?

I find it interesting that he doesn't go for either PR. He goes for Pete, a fairly scummy VT. Which means they aren't significantly threatened by the leftover PR.

[Klick]

What made you want to roleblock KAAG last night, votato?

[Klick]

I've been talked out of my argument against votato.

This is his only mention of his votato suspicion arou nd that time

PEdit: oh shit that's a pretty decent theory. Especially since they both were in a rush to die after claiming.

[Klick]

I think it makes a lot of sense, yeah. It's low-power considering the low power of most of the roles.

[Klick]

These sorts of things shouldn't require a long explanation that can be fabricated with a large amount of time. If you're town, you had a thought process, and it doesn't take long to give it.

VOTE: votato

[Klick]

UNVOTE:

Tonally speaking, votato is a lot more towny than KAAG. Content and action-wise (before these last few posts)... it's a different story.

This is where I'm at

[Klick]

I'm getting the same sort of feeling that I felt during D4, when the Pete vote just didn't feel quite right but I wouldn't let myself back down from it because all the evidence suggested that Pete had to be scum and Fwesnid wouldn't be lying.

[Klick]

A lot of the anti-town stuff that I have a problem with in votato's play are things that I genuinely think he could do as town. I'm not happy to admit that, but it's where I'm at.

[Klick]

When we pressured votato to post his case or otherwise do shit, he... proceeded to not do shit. He didn't scramble to do shit and try to save face. And when Fwesnid was faking a guilty and was caught scum on D5, votato decides to claim he still has his roleblock. Ignoring whether that's a valid town play... Is it a valid

scum

play? Because it both looks awful and forces him to pretend to have a night action.

[Klick]

Ughhhhhh but then why did votato target KAAG last night. If he targets me or Paragon he has a 50/50 shot of getting confirmed by KAAG (from votato!town's PoV where KAAG could easily be town last night). This was the one town action that had no chance of clearing votato and could also disrupt KAAG's action.

[Klick]

On the flipside, watching Paragon last night just makes sense from KAAG's point of view. Votato wasn't getting killed, and neither was I.

[Klick]

Deadline is 3:00 PM PST on the 19th, in 10 days, 22 hours, 10 minutes.

This is plenty of time to make the right decision, and we're probably not even going to use all of it. Since I don't have the burden of having to try to look town, I'm going to take this at my own pace (and also not put this over real life duties).

[Klick]

Yeah, I get that. It doesn't add up with Fwesnid's actions either. Fwesnid clearly HAD a plan going into D4. Votato didn't.

[Klick]

I'm happy to answer questions but I haven't been asked any. I checked in repeatedly. I didn't think cluttering up the thread while you guys were doing good analysis on the past days was helpful.

I am happy to do the "he said this, well you said that" thing if it will help you, but I tend to find come D6 that all the evidence is in the past.

You were right when you said this - I did feel a bit shamed out of considering you as scum at first today, but at this point it's grown old and you're not doing yourself any favors if you're town.

[Klick]

I get very little from players in LyLo who have confbias. Town and scum act exactly the same when their objective is just to get the other person lynched.

[Klick]

KAAG do you have any town games where you made it to LyLo? I've gone looking and can't find any

[Klick]

I think they're both completely plausible scum, and that's largely a result of eyestott's inactivity + votato's inexperience.

[Klick]

It's worth noting that the last scum is likely to be a PR. Meaning eyestott could have legitimately had a question about his role.

I think I'm leaning KAAG at the moment

[Klick]

Scum 1-shot BP wouldn't make much sense in this setup.

[Klick]

It's worth noting that the last scum is likely to be a PR. Meaning eyestott could have legitimately had a question about his role.

I think I'm leaning KAAG at the moment

Could you explain why to me?

You had it spot on here:

These sorts of things shouldn't require a long explanation that can be fabricated with a large amount of time. If you're town, you had a thought process, and it doesn't take long to give it.

VOTE: votato

What have you seen in my predecessor or my actions that is worse? I do understand Eyestott's claim "style" was nonsense. I don't know what else is making you think this though.

Frankly - and I apologise for this - this game is going to mostly come down to 'is votato town?' for me. I've looked over your slot several times at this point and come back with minimal conclusions either way. Votato is the far more telling slot.
My initial impression of votato upon coming into this game was 'obvious town', and although he's done some really questionable things in the later parts of the game, I do think there's a reason I came to that conclusion early on.

[Klick]

VOTE: KAAG

I'm feeling more confident on this now.

[Klick]

Doing alright, Paragon?
I'm feeling confident, but if you're feeling particularly confident in the other direction, we might want to hash out pros and cons again.

[Klick]

GG friends. Sorry for coming to the right answer and then throwing