Micc's micro normal review, May 2020

[implosion]

Primary: schadd_
Secondary: Ircher

[schadd_]

de

[Micc]

Finally graduating to designing my own normal setups isn’t this cool?

I’ll copy the setup over when I get to my laptop.

[Micc]

Town Loyal Fruit Vendor
Town Tracker
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Mafia Multitasking Roleblocker
Mafia Goon

Started with a Loyal Fruit Vendor as a pseudo cop role that I hope will be both interesting and challenging to play optimally. The Tracker is a powerful investigative role in its own right, but it can also compliment the Loyal Fruit Vendor by verifying if a visit occurred or was interfered with. Mafia are given a Roleblocker as a flexible check against both town power roles.

[Micc]

Setup Information

• This game will use a Closed Normal setup, which has 9 total players.
  
• All private threads in this game are open for Daytalk.
  
• Here is a sample Vanilla Townie Role PM:

Vanilla Townie

Welcome to Micro XXX!

The game thread is here.

You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

Abilities:

During the Day, you may vote for someone to get them lynched.

Win Condition:

You win when all Mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one Town-aligned player alive.

[Micc]

Vanilla Townie

Welcome to Micro XXX!

The game thread is here.

You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

Abilities:

During the Day, you may vote for someone to get them lynched.

Win Condition:

You win when all Mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one Town-aligned player alive.

Town Loyal Fruit Vendor

Welcome to Micro XXX!

The game thread is here.

You are a

Town Loyal Fruit Vendor

.

Abilities:

During the Day, you may vote for someone to get them lynched.
During the Night, you may target another player. That player will be told that they received Fruit during the Night Phase. Your action will fail as if it were Roleblocked if you target a player with a different alignment than yours.

Win Condition:

You win when all Mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one Town-aligned player alive.

Town Tracker

Welcome to Micro XXX!

The game thread is here.

You are a

Town Tracker

.

Abilities:

During the Day, you may vote for someone to get them lynched.
During the Night, you may target another player. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed what player or players they targeted with their action, if any. If your action fails, you will receive

NO RESULT

.

Win Condition:

You win when all Mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one Town-aligned player alive.

Mafia Goon

Welcome to Micro Normal XXX!

The game thread is here.

You are a

Mafia Goon

, and your partner is

PLAYER NAME

, a

Mafia Multitasking Roleblocker

.

Abilities:

During the Day, you may vote for someone to get them lynched.
You may talk to your Mafia partner in the Mafia PT at any time.
During the Night, one member of the Mafia may perform the factional nightkill.

Win Condition:

You win when all Town-aligned players are dead, or nothing can prevent this.

Mafia Multitasking Roleblocker

Welcome to Micro Normal XXX!

The game thread is here.

You are a

Mafia Roleblocker

, and your partner is

PLAYER NAME

, a

Mafia Goon

.

Abilities:

During the Day, you may vote for someone to get them lynched.
During the Night, you may target one player with a Roleblock. This player will be prevented from performing their own action, if any.
You may talk to your Mafia partner in the Mafia PT at any time.
During the Night, one member of the Mafia may perform the factional nightkill.
You may use multiple abilities during the same Night Phase.

Win Condition:

You win when all Town-aligned players are dead, or nothing can prevent this.

[schadd_]

i would call that pretty scumsided. i think that cop + tracker vs roleblocker was understood to be a little too hard for town in the newbie setup discussion, and loyal fruit vendor is pretty harshly affected by the roleblocker (no result vs. a compelling fake guilty is pretty vast)

the same setup with a 1-shot roleblocker or e.g. a novice rolestopper would probably be fine

[schadd_]

both of the scum roles in my proposition can be multitasking

[Micc]

I don’t think I agree with respect to Cop+Tracker vs RB being scumsided. When was that played or discussed? Cop+Doc vs RB comes in at slightly townsided in the Matrix6 data and that’s less town power than Cop+Tracker vs RB.

I can buy that I’m leaning scumsided here with the inherent uncertainty of a loyal fruit vendor result, but I’m not following your comparison.

Tracker+JK vs RB from NewD3 is probably the best comparison, and yeah my Fruit Vendor is probably weaker than a jail keeper, but I’m not sure it’s by a lot, and I think that setup probably runs slightly Townsided anyway?

[Ircher]

I think one of the things when it comes to setup balance is that you have to consider interactions as well as base power of roles. Cops get absolute results (town, scum, or no result) that clearly indicate to them what happens. Sure, there might be millers, but most millers claim immediately nowadays, so it doesn't really adversely affect the power of the cop. On the other hand, as schadd_ mentions, there's a lot more uncertainty with the Loyal Fruit Vendor with regards to no fruit being sent. Unlike the case of millers with cops, there's no easy way for a town player to convince the loyal fruit vendor they are town if they did not receive fruit unless the mafia roleblocker had already flipped.

Another thing to consider is that normal setups tend to be predominantly closed setups whereas all the newbie setups are either open or semi-open. This gives scum a lot more flexibility in claiming, and town PRs that claim aren't immediately cleared. Also, personal experience as a moderator and as a player suggests that players are not really good at setup-speccing. Thus, one can expect the winrate in a closed setup to be lower than that in an open setup.

[schadd_]

thinking about it cop + tracker vs rb in the newbie setup is probably close to balanced yeah, though i'd still suppose it's slightly towards scumsided, and even more so conceptually when you don't have the setup spec openness (e.g., when you track someone that isn't a cop in the newbie setup, they are a scum PR).

tracker + jk vs rb being townsided doesnt sit right with me but i believe you if thats the result youre seeing

in any case it just comes down to roleblocker really nailing the fruit vendor here

[Micc]

purpose of the roleblocker is really to check an early mass claim. moving the roleblocker to one-shot still accomplishes that goal so I think its the best solution. mafia can freely shoot any individual PR claim. they don't necessarily know that, but I think it can be worked out based on a lack of overall power in the scum team.

there's not any normalcy issues with a double modifier right?
is Mafia Multitasking One-Shot Roleblocker the way to go with respect to naming convention?

[Micc]

updated role pms

Spoiler:

Vanilla Townie

Welcome to Micro XXX!

The game thread is here.

You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

Abilities:

During the Day, you may vote for someone to get them lynched.

Win Condition:

You win when all Mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one Town-aligned player alive.

Town Loyal Fruit Vendor

Welcome to Micro XXX!

The game thread is here.

You are a

Town Loyal Fruit Vendor

.

Abilities:

During the Day, you may vote for someone to get them lynched.
During the Night, you may target another player. That player will be told that they received Fruit during the Night Phase. Your action will fail as if it were Roleblocked if you target a player with a different alignment than yours.

Win Condition:

You win when all Mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one Town-aligned player alive.

Town Tracker

Welcome to Micro XXX!

The game thread is here.

You are a

Town Tracker

.

Abilities:

During the Day, you may vote for someone to get them lynched.
During the Night, you may target another player. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed what player or players they targeted with their action, if any. If your action fails, you will receive

NO RESULT

.

Win Condition:

You win when all Mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one Town-aligned player alive.

Mafia Goon

Welcome to Micro Normal XXX!

The game thread is here.

You are a

Mafia Goon

, and your partner is

PLAYER NAME

, a

Mafia Multitasking One-Shot Roleblocker

.

Abilities:

During the Day, you may vote for someone to get them lynched.
You may talk to your Mafia partner in the Mafia PT at any time.
During the Night, one member of the Mafia may perform the factional nightkill.

Win Condition:

You win when all Town-aligned players are dead, or nothing can prevent this.

Mafia Multitasking One-Shot Roleblocker

Welcome to Micro Normal XXX!

The game thread is here.

You are a

Mafia Multitasking One-Shot Roleblocker

, and your partner is

PLAYER NAME

, a

Mafia Goon

.

Abilities:

During the Day, you may vote for someone to get them lynched.
Once per game, during the Night, you may target one player with a Roleblock. This player will be prevented from performing their own action, if any.
You may talk to your Mafia partner in the Mafia PT at any time.
During the Night, one member of the Mafia may perform the factional nightkill.
You may use multiple abilities during the same Night Phase.

Win Condition:

You win when all Town-aligned players are dead, or nothing can prevent this.

[schadd_]

purpose of the roleblocker is really to check an early mass claim. moving the roleblocker to one-shot still accomplishes that goal so I think its the best solution. mafia can freely shoot any individual PR claim. they don't necessarily know that, but I think it can be worked out based on a lack of overall power in the scum team.

there's not any normalcy issues with a double modifier right?
is Mafia Multitasking One-Shot Roleblocker the way to go with respect to naming convention?

fine with me, though i'd say a massclaim isn't a huge concern here (loyal fruit vendor gets slightly weaker if it's claimed but not shot as, if they are clever about it, there's potential for wolves to fakeclaim having received fruit)

PMs good

/pass

[schadd_]

purpose of the roleblocker is really to check an early mass claim. moving the roleblocker to one-shot still accomplishes that goal so I think its the best solution. mafia can freely shoot any individual PR claim. they don't necessarily know that, but I think it can be worked out based on a lack of overall power in the scum team.

there's not any normalcy issues with a double modifier right?
is Mafia Multitasking One-Shot Roleblocker the way to go with respect to naming convention?

fine with me, though i'd say a massclaim isn't a huge concern here (loyal fruit vendor gets slightly weaker if it's claimed but not shot as, if they are clever about it, there's potential for wolves to fakeclaim having received fruit)

PMs good

/pass

[Micc]

Ircher, you cool with this as is? Looking to have this ready to go to signups in the next 24 hours.

Town Loyal Fruit Vendor
Town Tracker
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Mafia Multitasking One-Shot Roleblocker
Mafia Goon

[Ircher]

Yeah, everything looks fine to me.

[Micc]

Thanks guys!

[Micc]

Micro 944 has ended. This thread can be released.