Mini Normal 2137 | Polandball | Over

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Hi.

Catching up.

I'm guessing eyestott is going to be replaced, which means another blow to town most likely because of the learning curve.

I'll try my best!

It's going to be important for town to look at the first 20-25 posts from today's day start.

Will do

I don't think it's indicative of anything. I don't agree. I know votato doesn't agree. Votato may be scum (I doubt it), but it's not with me.

I can't wait for you to suggest that we lynch votato today instead of the one fwesnid has claimed a guilty on.

It's going to be important tomorrow and the day after for town to look at the first 20-25 posts from today's day start.

Will do!!!

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Confirmed:
QuantumQuasar - Town Jailkeeper.
Drew-Sta - Town 1-Shot Voyeur.
gibus - VT
Atarashi Hajimari - VT
notsci 1X weak follower
Dolly Parton Mafia Goon

claimed:
Fwesnid - Watcher
votato - 1-shot Roleblocker
Paragon - VT
Pete - VT
Klick - VT
eyestott - 1X BP 1X Watcher
drippinggoofball 1X voyeur

I'm not a setup guy so I don't know what makes sense and what doesn't. I don't know why there would be both a full-time watcher and a 1X watcher. Did fwesnid claim before eyestott?

Skimming current day before going back and reading more. As its already been claimed, I confirm I am indeed a 1xBP 1xWatcher.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

I see Notscience claimed inno on DGB as a weak watcher. Any reason I should doubt this? DGB clear?

[KickAssAndGiggle]

EBWOP: Follower, not watcher.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Full disclosure: I'm not reading the whole thread. I will do some ISO combinations.

Skimmed a threeway ISO with Dolly and the Blurry/Klick slot. I doubt that's a team.

ISO'd DGB in full. Are you wavering on Klick being scum, DGB? You said he seemed townier today.

Pete:

I read this day twice. My main takeaway is its you vs Fwesnid: he is claiming a guilty on you. He's probably had enough time to retract if it was just a reaction test, so looks like there is scum in you/him. Is that what you expected me to get to? If there was something else major, treat me like a kid and quote it at me please.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

If what you were getting at is that I (or my predecessor) was supposed to post any results...I'm afraid I have nothing.

As far as I am aware, I still have both my watch and my BP status.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Basically, using the action last night in the way that votato did has no real town utility; his actions don't make sense if he's town. Meanwhile, they make a

ton

of sense as scum - claiming to have used it now instead of after his partner is lynched means he doesn't have to clear anyone as town. And he claimed he used the RB

after

Fwesnid claimed his guilty.

It's Pete/votato.

I've done the catching up I'm going to do. Read quite a bit, albeit skimmy and mainly as ISO. Not too many wall posts, made it easier.

That is also my current thoughts:

Pete/votato most likely.

Guess there's worth in further discussion, but can't see any point lynching outside Pete/Fwensid today, may as well be Pete.

This isn't just about the guilty claim: I found the interaction between Pete and Dolly after the "crumbing and definition of the word 'clear'" debacle to sound rather fake. Posts 1050 to 1060.

Dolly's neck was heading for the noose, and Pete found a comfortable middle-slot on the wagon. A thoroughly neccessary bus, is how I read it.

And makes zero sense that I can see for town!votato to RB Klick yesterday to

I used my rb in hopes of stopping the NK.

Hard to believe you actually thought Klick would be the NK.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

You believe Votato roleblocked Klick last night?

If yes, do you feel that was a town motivated action? Face value question.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

You believe Votato roleblocked Klick last night?

If yes, do you feel that was a town motivated action? Face value question.

I believe he may have, although I hope he saved it. If he did, it was a pro town move absolutely. Klick was scum suspicious for me and I believe for votato also, but I'm not sure about that off the top of my head.

When you say "I hope he saved it" and "If he did"...you realise he has posted that he used it on Klick, right? I was asking whether you believe him, not whether it happened.

I guess I'll take your answer as 'Yes' in any case, although it's a little odd that the man who insists that the replacement carefully reads the day seems not to have.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Fwesnid seems like town from his ISO. If DGB wasn't clear, he'd be my top town read based on days 1 and 2.

I see Pete/Klick as at least plausible. I doubted it from the Dolly/Klick interaction on D2 but it could be scum theatre.

Klick, if this is coming from scum!Pete, what should I make of it?

So the 3-man is probably going to be KA, klick and votato, and I choose klick all day long.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

It's hard to believe Fwesnid, who I TR very strongly, has faked his report before he knew what my predecessor did last night. Therefore I suspect it's genuine. If I'm wrong and you do flip town Pete, I will re-read every word you wrote, as you suggest, with that fact in mind.

Love to hear now from the others. DGB in particular, as she seemed to scum read Klick on D2. And is clear.

Nobody has doubts on Paragon?

[KickAssAndGiggle]

It's hard to believe Fwesnid, who I TR very strongly, has faked his report before he knew what my predecessor did last night. Therefore I suspect it's genuine. If I'm wrong and you do flip town Pete, I will re-read every word you wrote, as you suggest, with that fact in mind.

Love to hear now from the others. DGB in particular, as she seemed to scum read Klick on D2. And is clear.

Nobody has doubts on Paragon?

I'm not sure what bearing fwesnid's reporting before knowing what eyestott was going to say has.

What I was thinking: if my predecessor had watched too and seen something different, scum!Fwesnid is in a 1v1 vs a PR. I doubt he risks that as scum, especially as I think he has been near-universally town-read.

Now I think though, he probably knew due to the prod announcement that came with the day opening that my predecessor hadn't submitted. So, accepted. I'll have to fall back on my TR of him then.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Also, I'm not going to hammer this at this speed. Three players haven't posted once since my replace in. I'd like to hear from all three before I vote.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Just to confirm Fwesnid, your reads are Pete and then either myself or votato as the third, as from post 1085?

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Klick is plausibly scum. However, the first thing I did after replacing was read a Blurry/Klick + Dolly ISO and their interactions on D3 didn't make me think theatre. Although, I've been fooled by theatre before.

votato: reaction to D1 hammer feels fake, his role claim worries me (what's with saying "x-shot...i'll reveal x if asked"?), his usage of his role with no discussion worries me, his lack of reasons why he used it on Klick worries me. A lot of things have to happen for RB'ing Klick last night to be a good idea, including winning a coin flip about which scum submits the NK. He's been on-site since then but not discussing it with us.

I saw you say he sounds newbie. I think you're right, but that doesn't make him town.

Paragon can be town today, maybe not tomorrow. Fwesnid will be obvious once Pete flips. I know I'm voting Pete today, so may as well at this point.

VOTE: Pickaxe Pete

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Agreed, for my night actions.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

VOTE: Fwesnid

I was convinced you were town, so well played.

Pretty sure I know who your partner is now though, so I'm hopeful your ploy will backfire.

Let's see if they have the cajones to try something today.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

I didn't watch last night. And yes, I won't be discussing my choice for tonight.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Nice try.

If anyone with a green PM believes that nonsense, I've got a bridge to sell them.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Of course he should lol.

The audacity of faking a guilty, having played well, and then trying to blame it on misreading mod communication.

There's no move scum won't try, eh?

[KickAssAndGiggle]

That won't be why your scum team loses.

To the two townies:

I'm done for the day. I think I know his partner, but discussing it just makes my watch even less useful.

I only replaced in a few pages back, so I'm not as invested as you guys presumably are.

He faked a guilty. We lynched on it. Is there more you need to consider?

[KickAssAndGiggle]

I think I'd like a check-in from everyone at least once before we lynch.

Fair.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Oh 'dis gonna be gud!



Remember there's a dead thread right? Remember Pete and DGB are in there.

If you feel even a whisper of voting for anyone but Fwesnid, and you're town, have a word with yourself!

[KickAssAndGiggle]

votato, are you ready to explain why you roleblocked Klick, and what your idea from yesterday was?

This is a totally reasonable conversation to have. I'd like the answer too!

But at the end, no matter what, vote Fwesnid.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

I used my rb in hopes of stopping the NK.

Explain.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

@Mod, minor thing: thread title hasn't been changed from Night 4.

Who did you use it on last night, then?

On you.

Votato: why did you say you used it on Klick specifically?

[KickAssAndGiggle]

You haven't really engaged him once since that post.

Did you learn/read something from your test? Odd that I have to ask you to elaborate, most people would just have put this in the last reply.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Tired of checking in every hour to find nothing.

Fwesnid is conf!scum from my POV, my vote has been on him long enough for a double scum vote to have occurred if he (shockingly) wasn't.

I appreciate I'm not clear to you guys, but one of us has faked a guilty in thread.

I have nothing to contribute futher today, discussing my suspicions on his partner or who I might watch just helps them choose night actions.

Vote fwesnid and let's get this moving.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Are you proposing we all just keep prodging?

Can't say I'm enthusiastic about it.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

I'd be very happy with a quick night.

Mod? Where you at?

[KickAssAndGiggle]

I have contacted the list mod.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

No. I'd rather you told us.

I think we should sort this out now in MyLo. I don't think letting scum choose who isn't there in the finale helps us.

I watched last night.

I want to hear from votato before I reveal and we'll see if it tallies before proceeding.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Probably KAAG

Asking implosion what happens if we get stuck in a no-lynch-no-kill loop. Regardless, best play should probably be no-lynching here.

I firmly disagree.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

It is completely offset by scum choosing who leaves. Town has no power left, which would be the only argument for it, IMHO.

I will not be voting No Lynch today.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

I got No visitors on Paragon.

I was not roleblocked. I did NOT get No result.

VOTE: votato

[KickAssAndGiggle]

We will have to agree to disagree.

Its now between votato and myself. I was not roleblocked.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

I waited for this exact reason. To see if you would claim something that would prove to me you were scum.

I made it clear I had watched before you put your foot in it.

I thought you were scum within 10 posts of replacing in. Not with Pete, but it was independent of Pete.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Yeah, shoot?

[KickAssAndGiggle]

I don't know. BPs don't get told they've lost it.

I suspect it was removed last night. No lose for scum.

There's been an NK every night, so i suspect I had it going into last night.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

I thought today would be difficult.

I can't stop you and Paragon doubting yourselves but I feel all three of us thought it was votato yesterday.

I was sad when i got my PM, I thought I had wasted the watch. Now I'm stoked.

PEdit: I had to message the mod to find out I had my watch left. He did not tell me until I prodded him.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

EBWOP: and it took a while to get a reply.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Like Pete said, you kinda feel helpless in this situation, 1 vs 1 when you're town. You've put more work in than anyone Klick, so don't overthink this.

To believe votato is town, you have to believe that his faked RB usage (which he claimed was on Klick, D4) was town motivated in some way, and that his refusal to post about it yesterday when he was appearing elsewhere on site is pure.

I think votato's play has been very questionable if town, but not totally outside of conceivable town range.

That's a very generous assessment.

I can't do much, all the evidence is in the past. I'll be blameless if we lose, but I really don't want us to. I'll check in every few hours if you have questions.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

VOTE: Fwesnid

I was convinced you were town, so well played.

Pretty sure I know who your partner is now though

, so I'm hopeful your ploy will backfire.

Let's see if they have the cajones to try something today.

Who were you referring to here?

votato.

I waited for this exact reason. To see if you would claim something that would prove to me you were scum.

I made it clear I had watched before you put your foot in it.

I thought you were scum within 10 posts of replacing in. Not with Pete, but it was independent of Pete.

Basically, using the action last night in the way that votato did has no real town utility; his actions don't make sense if he's town. Meanwhile, they make a

ton

of sense as scum - claiming to have used it now instead of after his partner is lynched means he doesn't have to clear anyone as town. And he claimed he used the RB

after

Fwesnid claimed his guilty.

It's Pete/votato.

I've done the catching up I'm going to do. Read quite a bit, albeit skimmy and mainly as ISO. Not too many wall posts, made it easier.

That is also my current thoughts:

Pete/votato most likely.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Like Pete said, you kinda feel helpless in this situation, 1 vs 1 when you're town. You've put more work in than anyone Klick, so don't overthink this.

To believe votato is town, you have to believe that his faked RB usage (which he claimed was on Klick, D4) was town motivated in some way, and that his refusal to post about it yesterday when he was appearing elsewhere on site is pure.

I think votato's play has been very questionable if town, but not totally outside of conceivable town range.

That's a very generous assessment.

I can't do much, all the evidence is in the past. I'll be blameless if we lose, but I really don't want us to. I'll check in every few hours if you have questions.

AtE after there's a guilty on you in mylo... is there a clearer scum tell?

Yes, as that isnt. Its a "wants to win but is now unavoidably helpless" tell.

Your lie about RB'ing Klick. Your refusal to meaningfully post in the 2 day twilight we had. Clearer.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

These sorts of things shouldn't require a long explanation that can be fabricated with a large amount of time. If you're town, you had a thought process, and it doesn't take long to give it.

VOTE: votato

^This though

I just don't get what this "effort post" will show, it's why I want to see it so much.

KAAG, you shouldn't stop posting just because it looks like we're lynching votato.

I'm happy to answer questions but I haven't been asked any. I checked in repeatedly. I didn't think cluttering up the thread while you guys were doing good analysis on the past days was helpful.

I am happy to do the "he said this, well you said that" thing if it will help you, but I tend to find come D6 that all the evidence is in the past.

Tonally speaking, votato is a lot more towny than KAAG. Content and action-wise (before these last few posts)... it's a different story.

I don't find votato's tone to be even remotely towny, but I have the advantage of reading it knowing he is scum. My tone is as ever. I have no alts: every post I have ever made on this site is under this account so you can check it.

the effort post will show why i think i solved the game. it woulda been nicer yesterday, but for some reason we decided to put fwesnid at L-1 despite knowing that he'd likely self-hammer

Paragon, how long were we in twilight? How long did he have? It was over 48 hours. He was posting elsewhere.

You haven't aked me about it, but regarding votato's posts on me:

1) When I joined the game, fwesnid vs Pete was established, before my first post. votato hasn't quoted me probing Pete about his thoughts on votato's RB claim (because that's scum hunting and would hardly help his cause)

2) After fwesnid was outed, I asked as many questions and tried to get content as much as anyone else that day.

3) My result from last night coupled with votato's lie meant I caught the scum today. No more hunting to do.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

I dont have my rb shot no

On you.

I used my rb in hopes of stopping the NK.

hmm sorry for disappearing. I do have an explanation, but now is not the time for me to give it. ask me again tomorrow. i need to go back and reread. i think i have an idea. UNVOTE: for now.

i still have my shot.

I used my rb in hopes of stopping the NK.

Explain.

1173 was a lie to deter scum from shooting me, which at the start of the day seemed pretty plausible. as the day progressed it became less likely, so i softed the lie with the "i have some info" post. thats why i didnt want to reveal it yesterday before deadline tho. now i safely have my shot to use going into lylo.

@Mod, minor thing: thread title hasn't been changed from Night 4.

Who did you use it on last night, then?

On you.

Votato: why did you say you used it on Klick specifically?

Ebwop: reaction test. Put that in the quote by accident

It doesn't have to require a lot of effort if you're town. The question is not a hard one.

the answer is a long one.

tl;dr: i think based on claims i have some idea about who scum is. i didnt learn much from the reaction test, no.

i blocked KAAG

His posts today, after we cross voted, should not, I think, be swaying you.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Holy commas batman! Sorry for my grammar.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Nobody is faling victim to confirmation bias. You looked like scum on D1. And on D2. And on D3. And then on D4 you lied about your role usage because "I thought I'd be the NK":

Why did you think you were a good kill for scum, votato?

Weren't you working on the basis Goofball was confirmed, and Fwensid was likely town and a high priority - being a watcher?

Also, I just realised I haven't apologised to Alore yet. Sorry for not having more faith in you, I just didn't understand why someone who's townread would fake a guilty on someone who's not. But maybe it's because he thought he could get away with this mod communication thing he's entered today with. You will be avenged.

(Bold and colour added by me)

I have stood off to allow Klick and Paragon space to analyse without my adding clutter to the thread. They don't need me going "Oh good point, I agree" every time I do.

I don't believe much in the "he said/you said" approach to a MyLo/LyLo. They can read the thread and get the evidence just as well as either of us can.

The quote wall in post 1406 is all the hunting required, IMHO.

Your refusal to post your "effort post" in the 48 hour twilight is just the cherry on top of your scum icing.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

I dont understand this "tone" stuff. I post how my mood is at the time, as both alignments. Half my posts are 5 minute windows when I'm supposed to be working. Like this one.

Like I said to Paragon, I have no alts. I have roughly 1,000 posts on site, split across alignments. Feel free to check.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Another 7 hour gap between my posts. I don't see what progress you guys are going to make with content produced today. Can you just read 1406 again?

There's being cautious and then there's taking too long and sowing doubt in your own heads. I thought all three of us realised yesterday that votato was scum. I am genuinely a little frustrated now, considering my first post with reads had votato as scum.

When I read you say votato sounds tonally town...it makes me wonder what on earth you are reading. He doesn't sound remotely town at any point. If anything, D1 and D2 are worse than the lies and reticence of D4/D5!

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Oh boy it looks like I'll be asleep during the times that most people are awake. How lovely.

I like eyestott and goofball for town so far. Not a fan of quasar so UNVOTE: whoever I was on and VOTE: quasar

thats a lot of reads for being so early in the game. quasar doesn't seem super duper serious about his, but atarashi seems a lot more serious. Also, seeing someone else post reads and then posting your own reads reads a bit like scum thinking that they need to do something to look like they're gamesolving. at the same time its page 4, so

I'm gonna give everyone a pass for now.

consider it noted.

...4 posts later:

a quick list of scummy things atarashi has done so far (other than completely spamming the thread with posts):

VOTE: votato

I rolled a 13-sided dice.

using the plural of "die" while clearly talking about only one.

Oooh add blurry onto the list of people to eventually pressure.

@mod: can you turn on my multiple votes superpower now? I wanna vote for two people at the same time.

wanting to pressure people but not stating a case, and having such a long scum list. There's been virtually 0 meaningful content to get reads from.

Add fwesnid to the list of potential scumboats too.

see above. credit for trying to get the game moving, but negative credit for the way youre going about doing it.

Oh boy it looks like I'll be asleep during the times that most people are awake. How lovely.

I like eyestott and goofball for town so far. Not a fan of quasar so UNVOTE: whoever I was on and VOTE: quasar

thats a lot of reads for being so early in the game. quasar doesn't seem super duper serious about his, but atarashi seems a lot more serious. Also, seeing someone else post reads and then posting your own reads reads a bit like scum thinking that they need to do something to look like they're gamesolving. at the same time its page 4, so I'm gonna give everyone a pass for now. consider it noted.

Dang you really don't want to be put in a townpile, do you? Fine, if you insist I'll take you back out of it.

I don't really care how you read me at this point. Unless you're reading me as a potential mate/romantic partner, and then color me interested (that goes for everyone btw). I'm still curious though why you're being so aggressive, and why you chose to post a read list immediately after quasar.

Actually, VOTE: Votato

I'm trying real hard to see how that post comes from a town-mindset and I'm drawing a blank.

How is it scummy to point out scummy behavior? You want pressure on people and have weak reasoning. It seems scummy to be so confident in your reads at this stage. And then there's your vote on me that seems pretty OMGUSsy. UNVOTE: . VOTE: atarashi

What a sensational reason to switch votes this one is:

fair enough, I'll join team blurry against the evil baddies of team gibus. UNVOTE: atarashi, since apparently that wasnt gonna go anywhere for now. VOTE: gibus

VOTE: QuantumQuasar

Iso is pathetic.

worse than any of the wagons so far. agreed.

UNVOTE: gibus or whatever my vote is being counted as being on... and VOTE: quantumquasar

Could this be a more opportunistic switch?

as it happens, i did pressure you. this whole saga is me asking you to explain yourself. but instead of explaining yourself you went ahead and started saying im scum. im not sure how you should get the game moving. but i dont think that saying you find x. y, z, and w scummy without reason is all that helpful. I feel like me pushing back against you did get us moving. and not just from RVS to RQS, but to actual content. Again though, I'll give you some of the credit, you were right there with me holding my hand. Why dont you take me out to dinner instead? Since you're calling me honey ill take it youre at least somewhat interested. I think posting reads is normally NAI, but i think when it happens on page 3/4, if one person posts reads and then another immediately starts following, it pings. I'm not expecting a confident read. thats why im surprised that you seem to be so confident. Maybe once you explain your initial reads itll all make sense.

You want to talk about fluff posting votato?

[KickAssAndGiggle]

i mean i agree that its really frustrating that we arent getting anything to work with from the people who have to make a decision. but at the same time, they need to carefully consider. it would be way more frustrating if they let you win just because they went with a scumread that came largely from me procrastinating and being disengaged. this isnt my scum meta. I now have two completed scumgames I can link. One was my very first scumgame, and I was kinda lost and then my entire team hardbussed me. In the second i was far more confident and led the town around by being very active. those two games are animals upick and micro 938: butterfly mafia. lately ive been getting a bit bored by towngames, so i've been far less active. if you really honestly think im scum, please come ask me questions and find out. its really frustrating to sit here helplessly while the clock winds down on us and apathy looks like its going to let us slowly drift to a scum win. engage with me!

"Letting" me win let's them win. It's win/win/win!

if you really honestly think im scum, please come ask me questions and find out.

It felt as if this post was directed at me! I *know* you're scum. Your claim to have RB'd me is contradicted entirely by my result.

As far as I'm concerned, nothing that happens today should make the slightest difference. D4 (your BS about your role) and D5 (your refusal to engage over your reasons for "roleblocking" (lol) Klick) are as damning as they should require.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

On the flipside, watching Paragon last night just makes sense from KAAG's point of view. Votato wasn't getting killed, and neither was I.

If I had done anything else BUT watch Paragon, I'd need my head examining.

I'm very self-critical, but in this game, I think I've done everything right. That has (slightly annoyingly) left me in this situation of only having to react and wait for you two.

votato is scum. He hasn't even done a good job of hiding it. Every post of his oozes that scummy "hey guy's let's talk about this" vibe to draw out the game. I've been on that side. I've won games using it (see Newbie 1684).

But town toned? I don't think so...

so you wait until day 6 to attempt any scumhunting, and then your "case" rests on my noobish attempts at getting the game out of RVS? I mean to be fair this was the third game i started i think, so i was super new at the time of those posts and I'll concede that it was not great play, but i do think my posting was consistent there... i talked about how people were overconfident and then made up bullshit cases arguing that people had bad grammar and were hitting on me. i was pretty clearly mostly kidding with 83. my votes after 83 werent great, but at the time i also didnt even fully understand the purpose of early day 1 wagons, so...

how about we compare my read progressions from those posts to now with your lack of any attempts at reads or progressions.

Are you continuing to miss the point that I *know* you are scum? Your read progressions are all fake, what possible point is there to this?

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Obvtown
Me

Town
Blurry
Eyestott
Haruhi

Fwesnid

Null
Pete
Paragon

Scum
Dolly (based on flip)
Votato

DGB

I will admit I think one of the scum is wrong because I doubt they’re all on both wagons but idk which

This guy knew.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

EBWOP: to be clear, all colouring/bolding in my post added by me to draw attention. Not trying to misrep.

PEdit: ninja'd by mod!!!

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Posting this again so its near a page top rather than right at the bottom:

Obvtown
Me

Town
Blurry
Eyestott
Haruhi

Fwesnid

Null
Pete
Paragon

Scum
Dolly (based on flip)
Votato

DGB

I will admit I think one of the scum is wrong because I doubt they’re all on both wagons but idk which

This guy knew.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

1420: Why is that vote switch opportunistic, KAAG? He moved from town to town. Quentin wasn't scumreading him.

Scum love to move votes based on a strong townies read. Did he elaborate? Demonstrate? Or just purely sheep DGB?

KAAG: Did you go back and reread all of Pete's posts?

I read that entire set of pages (most of D4)...4 times? Maybe 5? Is there a follow up?

I have done everything I can to win this for us. When I read this:

True. Strangely, I'm leaning KAAG now.

My motivation for trying to help you get this right plummets.

It was obviously votato before the cross vote. It is obviously him now. The reasons you are giving for being swayed are wrong. You are also wrong about his tone. And about them having no plan.

THIS WAS THEIR PLAN

. Take advantage of Eyestott's nonsense (utterly nonsense, I agree) way of claiming this stupid role.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Why are you ignoring notscience? By a mile the best player in this game.

Neither of you have even mentioned his analysis.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

What favours should I be doing? I am barely being asked direct questions. You and Paragon are basically chatting amongst yourselves, for some odd reason. It's one of the least effective approaches. Especially as you have now talked yourselves into thinking I'm more likely scum than him, for unfathomable reasons:

Who did you use it on last night, then?

Why did you use it last night?

I think it's Pickaxe/votato.

Is it weird that I think this is towny though? If votato is scum, he's gonna formulate a fakeclaim of who he roleblocked and why in his head. He's gonna have the reasons ready and isn't just gonna make it up as he goes along. Klick asks him who he roleblocked and it takes him 10min to reply. Klick asks him why, and he completely disappears. That's actually completely illogical from a scum perspective.

While as town, I can see the cogs turning in his head there as he comes up with this dumb fakeclaim because he wants to survive with his shot going into LyLo, and he's not as worried about explaining himself to the follow-up question, and disappears as a result.

You get what I mean, Klicks?

He is more likely to have disappeared and not answered...as town?

Nothing hold this guy (votato) back from posting. All over the site.

What do you want me to do? Sit back silently while you get it wrong? One thing's for sure, we aren't losing this due to me just waiting it out. I don't get what you see in my tone or whatever that makes you think I'm scum. All I see is a lot of WIFOM about votato's play "could" be town. Sure, a newbie can post like scum when they are town. They can take actions that look scummy when they are town. Absolutely. But is that the most likely thing?

[KickAssAndGiggle]

When you say bias...I do know he is scum. However, I fully agree with that: nothing that happens today after the cross vote is relevant.

I am pointing out that I think the conclusions you are drawing are wrong. I owe it the rest of town to do so.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

It's worth noting that the last scum is likely to be a PR. Meaning eyestott could have legitimately had a question about his role.

I think I'm leaning KAAG at the moment

Could you explain why to me?

You had it spot on here:

These sorts of things shouldn't require a long explanation that can be fabricated with a large amount of time. If you're town, you had a thought process, and it doesn't take long to give it.

VOTE: votato

What have you seen in my predecessor or my actions that is worse? I do understand Eyestott's claim "style" was nonsense. I don't know what else is making you think this though.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

KAAG do you have any town games where you made it to LyLo? I've gone looking and can't find any

I'm afraid I have been scum here more often than averages dictate I should have been.

I have only been in LyLo/MyLo as scum on site, before this game.

I could go digging for old games on other forums, I might do that this evening if I have time. I can't promise, work has been a shitstorm today. But these games will be years old, when I was younger and probably more full of piss-and-vinegar.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

tin foil hat time: what if KAAG really is 1-shot BP, and thats why scum thought that would be a good claim. that would even explain the exact question asked of the mod. i havent thought about it enough to really know if it makes sense.

No tin-foil hat required. KAAG is a town 1xBP 1xWatcher.

That's a pretty strange post.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

OK, thanks for clarifying.

Your conclusion though, is wrong. When evidence (his questionable things) does not fit the early hypothesis (he is town), you really should change the hypothesis.

I don't mean to be patronising, I expect you fully understand that at face value. I imagine you are saying is "in my opinion, his questionable actions weren't questionable enough to shake my read". No apology neccessary there, but that opinion will lose the game.

It gets harder for scum as the game goes on, in my experience. Which explains why the questionable stuff came later. I mean...it was *bound* to come after the claims, and not before, right?

Having said that, I read votato as scum straight after replacing in, and that was based on a catch-up. So I don't even agree with the initial assessment. I know, I'd say that as either alignment.

I'd like to win, but more importantly, I want to make sure I keep the promise I made to Pete to try. I think I've done that to the best of my ability.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Based on a *completed* game of his I have perused, I don't think votato is that newbie. I think he is newish to the game of Mafia, but I think despite his writing style, he is a very smart guy. If you're giving him a pass on some things due to "clueless newbieness", that is a mistake.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

No disrespect intended.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Newbie 2004 is the game to which I was referring. I wasn't commenting on your play, more your posts in the dead thread, which certainly did not come across as "bumbling newbie".

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Newbie 2004 is the game to which I was referring. I wasn't commenting on your play, more your posts in the dead thread, which certainly did not come across as "bumbling newbie".

i was town in that game, but my talk in that dead thread was mostly mechanics-related, which comes purely from the wiki and my own experience playing town on the site. that was also posted less than a week ago, while this game began a long time ago, when i was a bumbling newbie. some would say that im still a bumbling newbie now. comparing my play when i was new to my recent posting in a dead thread is rather disingenuous of you. Like i said, a better comparison would be this game (which began on Apr 25) to animals upick (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=82907, began april 30th). In animals upick i bumbled about and was almost instantly caught as scum. My scum mates were able to save me by giving me a convincing fake-claim, but i still was the day 2 lynch. Compare that to this game where my play far more closely resembles my town game.

So you learnt from your mistakes. Wise indeed. Nobody will call you a bumbling newbie after this game. Whether they eventually see through it or not.

With nothing more than tone, you've given them a terrible time in this MyLo! It's impressive. I watched the only person I sensibly could, waited for your scum move which made it a 1v1, and reminded them of your fake claim. And your neck isn't in a noose!

So no...newbie no more. I wouldn't play scum the way you have but it's working for you, so kudos!

PEdit: do newbies do sensible setup discussion? Do they have the experiece? Just asking...

I don't think my role is that odd, or unheard of. You are probably a mafia rolecop, or an x-shot RB. That's my best guess. Respect my authoritah in the aftermath if I'm bang on there! Long time ago but we had a JK on D1 so you must have some power.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

newbies dont really do setup spec, newbie games are semi-open. also, that game started after this one, so theres no way i could have possibly learned from that game and brought it here. my early game here should be as obviously scum as that one, maybe more. youre right that since there's a JK you probably have something stronger than just BP. maybe you're ascetic or something? did anyone claim an action that resolved on you with confirmation?

The point I'm making, and really its aimed at Klick, is that you should not be read as a newbie, but as a decent player who is capable of making plays as scum, and engaging in role discussion.

Because I think you read fairly clearly as scum, unless you give newbieness a weighting. I'm basically asking Klick to stop giving you a "newbie's leeway" and read again.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Oh well. I tried.

Can't really see what more I could have done. I've given you zero reason to vote me, and you have provded none.

WP votato.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

At least I only replaced in and hadn't been here since the start. I'd be fuming to lose like this in that case!

Now I'm just slightly disappointed, but I'll get over it.

I am a town 1xBP 1xWatcher, and we've lost. GGs all.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

I know I'm not hammered, just resigned to losing. I refuse to take any blame for it so I will continue beating the point home.

I don't know for absolute certain Klick won't have an epiphany and realise what a dreadful loss this is going to be. I'm still hopeful!

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Doing alright, Paragon?
I'm feeling confident, but if you're feeling particularly confident in the other direction, we might want to hash out pros and cons again.

You shouldn't be, all you've said is this boils down to "is votato town", and then proceeded to dismiss all the evidence that he isn't.

I don't get the impression you are listening any more though. Some mistakes can only be learnt through making them.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

That's me hammered.

I won't keep you in suspense. I'm town...and would you believe it, a 1xBP 1xWatcher.

WP votato. This is a town disaster but you were tenacious and, I suppose, made it hard for them. Kudos to you.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

GG scum.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Fwesnid, I'm literally a little scared at how hard I was town-reading you until Pete flipped!

[KickAssAndGiggle]

When you look at the setup, it looks townsided. But then again, it made my role look unlikely come the end: would town have that much power when the two scum who had flipped were goons?

I imagine this didn't help Klick and Paragon with the decision.