Open 86 - Lovers Multiball (Game Over)

[Erratus Apathos]

@ charter and cere - out of curiousity, why farside instead of EA?

Vote: icemanE

[Erratus Apathos]

DO NOT LIKE OP WAGON (NOTE: I UNDERSTAND WHY IT HAS FORMED). GUARANTEE THERE IS SCUJM ON IT.

THAT IS ALL.

That is most definitely not all. Elaborate or die.

Unvote, Vote: Alabaska J

I severely doubt Adel is scum. That would mean this whole "secret scumtell" is bull

False dilemma. Adel knowing about the tell and Adel being scum are not exclusive scenarios.

scum's inclined to look thouroughly into everything said about a secret tell.

Even mentioning thinking as scum would think in a game comes off scummy to me. It's been a proven scumtell a couple of times.

Links?

[Erratus Apathos]

I can't explain that without revealing what the tell is, and it's better for the town if I get lynched rather than I say what it is.

(How many PMs from the mod do you have in your inbox?)

Don't answer that now.

Don't talk the talk if you can't walk the walk.

Unvote, Vote: Crazy

I still expect Alabaska to answer my previous post.

[Erratus Apathos]

speaking of votes, people are being way conservative with their votes so far. This isn't a mini.

The first person to place the 9th vote on someone gets a brownie.
Go! Go! Go! Go! Go! Go! Go!

[Erratus Apathos]

All crazy voters -

Do you believe, like OF, that Crazy knew his "daytalk tell" wasn't valid all along, and just made it up when pressured in order for to look like he made a honest mistake? If not, why are you voting him?

It's not that I think he knew it wasn't valid; I don't see anything pointing one way or the other in that regard. It's that I think he was more concerned with using the tell to clear himself than to catch scum. I believe this because of:

1: His insistence that scum couldn't come up with the tell
2: His "it's better that I get lynched as town than reveal the tell" post, followed by revealing the tell once people started doubting him.

[Erratus Apathos]

speaking of votes, people are being way conservative with their votes so far. This isn't a mini.

The first person to place the 9th vote on someone gets a brownie.
Go! Go! Go! Go! Go! Go! Go!

13 minus 9 is 4, not 2.

The point Adel was emphasizing was "people are being way conservative with their votes", not "place the 9th vote on someone", and certainly not "place no more than the 9th vote on someone". And in a large game, arguing over the difference between L-4 and L-2 is splitting hairs. "L-2 is closer to lynch than L-4" is not a satisfactory explanation for a 180 jump like that.

[Erratus Apathos]

It's not that I think he knew it wasn't valid; I don't see anything pointing one way or the other in that regard. It's that I think he was more concerned with using the tell to clear himself than to catch scum. I believe this because of:

1: His insistence that scum couldn't come up with the tell
2: His "it's better that I get lynched as town than reveal the tell" post, followed by revealing the tell once people started doubting him.

1 isn't scummy if he truely believed the daytalk tell, but I agree with 2 and find Crazy scummy for numerous other things. The reason I'm not voting for him is that it really seems to me that he earnestly believed the daytalk tell, and if he did he has to be town. This for me is stronger then all my suspicions of him, and I encourage Crazy wagoners to take this into acount. If you also think he honestly believed the tell, I can't see why you're voting him.

Like I said, I don't see anything pointing either towards him believing or not believing it. Yes he sounded earnest, but I don't expect scum to be more half-hearted than town.

these posts constitute part the reason why I voted for you

Additionally,

crazy, unless you received some kind of special message after your role PM, the generic townie PM is available for all to see on the first page of this thread. It's the PM is received, so unless you got something extra, you're full of crap.

Please vote and eliminate crazy-scum, it's clear now he's full of shite.

The role PMs on the first page say everyone gets a daytalk forum.

Ah, but reading over them again, it seems the scum each get a forum where they're allowed to talk to their entire team at once instead of just their lover. This changes things. I'm going to review with that in mind.

Crazy's tell may not have been as crazy as some people (like icemanE) would like for the rest of the town to believe.

these posts constitute part the reason why I voted for you

OK, so what's the rest of the reason?

Additionally, can you elaborate, as I don't see anything wrong with either of those posts.

you got a pm giving your scumteam a place to talk, but you didn't know that townies also got a pm giving them a daytalk PM! It is freaking obvious!

Adel 1, IcemanE 0.

Unvote, Vote: IcemanE

[Erratus Apathos]

I asked Crazy if he got some sort of SPECIAL INFORMATION after his role PM, not the link to his daytalk forum. The link to the daytalk forum isn't SPECIAL INFORMATION because EVERYONE GOT IT.

What kind of SPECIAL INFORMATION were you expecting him to possibly claim?

[Erratus Apathos]

Dybeck: Why weren't you vocal against the Crazy wagon, when it was as close to a lynch as the Orange/Ice wagon now is?

[Erratus Apathos]

Regardless of how today's lynch turns out, I think Alabaska is the best player to look deeply into tomorrow. I can see the arguments against the other active lurkers, but Alabaska's posts go so far beyond active lurking that it needs a name all to itself, like "active utter worthlessness". Except for his posts about Iceman, all he does is say "that guy is scum/town" as if that defeats all argument to the contrary:

DO NOT LIKE OP WAGON (NOTE: I UNDERSTAND WHY IT HAS FORMED). GUARANTEE THERE IS SCUJM ON IT.

THAT IS ALL.

Why are so many people still voting Crazy?

Also, crazy (and OP by default) and dybeck are town; stop being stupid guys.

These three are the best of all:

FoS: Firestarter

for his vote on RR out of nowhere…especially because his reasons were wrong…

Hmm.... dybeck coming out of absolutely nowhere to throw down a vote on someone who isn't on either of the wagons, and who hasn't even been discussed as scummy yet... that's scummy.

FoS: dybeck

Very

happy with my vote.

Also, anyone read RR's post saying todsay was really informative like scum trying to keep a lynch from stalling? Almost makes me want to get off the wagon.

FoS: RR

.

So if we're to believe Alabaska here:
Firestarter voting RR out of nowhere is

scummy

Dybeck voting SSF out of nowhere is

not scummy

, but anyone who finds it scummy is

scummy

Alabaska almost voting RR out of nowhere is

pro-town

I would look forward to seeing Alabaska try to explain that, except he'll probably just FoS me for being wrong rather than actually contribute to discussion.

[Erratus Apathos]

Vote: Alabaska J

massclaim

yay

[Erratus Apathos]

What exactly is all this lover speculation supposed to accomplish?

[Erratus Apathos]

Are there any reasons for massclaiming? Just people being lazy or what?

I'd rather have twice as much information per team now, rather than find out after someone gets run up.

[Erratus Apathos]

SSF

[Erratus Apathos]

Play-style distancing - pwnz has been unhelpful, slightly lurking, bandwagoned, etc.
Adel has generally started wagons rather than joined them, been vocal and visibly helpful.

Are you saying that town lovers with differing playstyles would copy their partner's playstyle? Because I for one will be damned if I'm gonna emulate SSF's play this game.

[Erratus Apathos]

Having finished a reread of Alabaska, dybeck, and kloud knowing they're lovers, I'm definitely happy with their lynch. I've already given my thoughts on Alabaska basically just posting "You're all wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong WRONG" a lot, but here's what else I've noticed since:

I'd be against any lover claim. I might not even participate in it if it came to it.

Oh, yeah. And you have reasoning, or no? Or are you just going to bandwagon on the more popular option?

Sure... I just don't see why giving away information is a good thing.

Way to try and make me look scummy for it, btw.

Dybeck came against the D1 massclaim without giving support for it, and Crazy correctly pointed this out and accused dybeck of a scummy action. Dybeck's second sentence effectively says "How dare you accuse me of being scum?" as if the notion of accusing another player of being scum in a game of Mafia is unheard of - I know I've been caught doing that as scum.

"I think he's scum" doesn't

mean

anything. It should be obvious. It's not really a reason because it should apply to everyone you want to lynch. But by having it as an entirely separate reason, you've drawn attention to that obvious fact, something which I think is the behavior of scum attacking a scum non-buddy.

This is REALLY desperate and contrived.

unvote, vote: somestrangeflea

In light of Ice/Orange being werewolves, this post comes off as chainsaw defending a scumbuddy. It looks like he's more interested in forcing SSF off of Iceman than finding scum.

This lynch has all the hallmarks of a lazy lynch by a town that has closed its mind to other options.

As with Alabaska, this post has that naggy "you're all wrong" tone without actually contributing anything to anything. And with Ice/Orange being werewolves, I can easily see him trying to get attention off of them without having a trail of actively opposing the wagon.

This lynch has all the hallmarks of a lazy lynch by a town that has closed its mind to other options.

This post has all the hallmarks of scum knowing a townie will be lynched so he can say "told you so" tomorrow.

Almost makes me want to get off the wagon.

Don't just talk about it, do it. If you think he's a townie, stop voting for him. All it needs is a few people to jump off and we can really go scumhunting.

This is a very opportunistic encouragement for getting a player off the Ice wagon.

Unvote, vote: kloud1516

to consolidate the votes on Alabaska and kloud.

[Erratus Apathos]

I apologize my case is so long, and hope everyone will still take the time to read into it. I really think I'm on to something here.

I somewhat agree with AE about Kloud/Ala as well, but to a much lesser extent. Dybeck defended Ice so strongly it actually makes me doubt they're partners, I believe he'd have gone more for distancing if that was the case. Alabaska is just acting really odd. I have them pegged as possibly mafia, but my case on Harvey and cere is much stronger imo.

Dybeck didn't really defend Ice so much as condemn his attackers. The difference is subtle but big - I've seen townies strongly defend scums often enough to know that it's a very weak scumtell if it's even a scumtell at all, but scum are much more likely to "attack the attacker" than townies.

[Erratus Apathos]

Just over half the town voting with less than three days to deadline? Unless you replaced in recently, you've had way more than enough time to decide who you want to see lynched.

FoS: sekinj, DarlaBlueEyes, Cephrir, WaltWishbone

Double FoS: Harvey Pew/cerebus3, kloud1516/Alabaska J

[Erratus Apathos]

So cerebus's "flip flopping" consists of finding Crazy scummy until deciding his scumtell isn't one scum would have come up with, and finding Iceman slightly townish until cases against him were presented. From where I sit those are reasonable changes of mind. How are the rest of you concluding that he's scum from this?

[Erratus Apathos]

So cerebus's "flip flopping" consists of finding Crazy scummy until deciding his scumtell isn't one scum would have come up with, and finding Iceman slightly townish until cases against him were presented. From where I sit those are reasonable changes of mind. How are the rest of you concluding that he's scum from this?

I still want everyone who got on the cerebus wagon late yesterday to answer this.

[Erratus Apathos]

So cerebus's "flip flopping" consists of finding Crazy scummy until deciding his scumtell isn't one scum would have come up with, and finding Iceman slightly townish until cases against him were presented. From where I sit those are reasonable changes of mind. How are the rest of you concluding that he's scum from this?

I still want everyone who got on the cerebus wagon late yesterday to answer this.

That's odd, I could've sworn I signed up to play Mafia, not dodgeball.

Vote: charter

FoS: sekinj, KoC

[Erratus Apathos]

I'm going to need to be replaced in this game. Sorry.