Mini Theme 2412: Gacha Mafia

[Dunnstral]

I and all members of my faction that are known to me and I to them,

VOTE: Elena Fisher

and win the game.

[Dunnstral]

Here are my thoughts right now:

1. I don't see a downside to claiming card-eggs right now - we need to distribute them to other players
2. We shouldn't distribute the card-eggs right away, I want to get a feel for people first, some card-eggs would be a shame to be lost
3. DoctorPepper didn't read the setup

[Dunnstral]

My card egg is extremely powerful and I kinda want to keep it for myself.

I don't think you can do that, it does mention throwing it to another player

[Dunnstral]

For the first six meatworld days of dayplay, they can Throw: their card-egg to another player with no card

[Dunnstral]

Since knowing which eggs certain players have may make us treat each other different (buddying people who have good stuff).

My card egg is extremely powerful

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Unvote

I didn't think my vote would count

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Unvote

I didn't think my vote would count

UNVOTE:

[Dunnstral]

Throw: Elena Fisher

[Dunnstral]

No, give the card to whoever you want to be in a neighborhood with later in the phase

[Dunnstral]

What is your reasoning for throwing your card-egg to me?

[Dunnstral]

Clidd hasn't talked yet though

[Dunnstral]

Hoctac, what do you think of Pigman throwing Amberjack to me?

[Dunnstral]

I can get behind their reasoning a little. Why were you feeling so selfless, Dunny?

Pigman, why throw it out so early rather than wait a little?

I wouldn't say I was being selfless.

Who has the date masamune capsule?

[Dunnstral]

But the disable daytalk one is bad

[Dunnstral]

It is compulsive. Data Masamune is bad as in it's bad for the person who receives it - 152 was in response to you responding to hoctac saying that you shouldn't get that one

[Dunnstral]

how come i get the boring ability :c

Interesting question. Doctor Pepper, what motivated your throw?

[Dunnstral]

Who is left? Does Pigman have to throw to himself?

It is not possible to throw to yourself

[Dunnstral]

Looks like we're playing mountainous

[Dunnstral]

Well no, Elements hasn't thrown either

So we're missing something

[Dunnstral]

^ Pigman threw to me already, Elements needs to throw to pigman.

False alarm, though something I never considered with the setup

[Dunnstral]

How am I a scapegoat?

Second this, as in what are people actually talking about? Scapegoat for what? Who called him scum?

[Dunnstral]

Let's see, I don't scumread pig, I'm not into the clidd wagon and get that Elena wants to talk to them.

Not sure we should lynch our bodyguard here, either - it's a useful role if town, more useful than one might expect because it can change the bonus town gets. My read on Elements himself is null.... he hasn't really done anything

213 is a suspicious post, IMO. That reminds me, why was your reason for not wanting Pigman to have the bodyguard?

[Dunnstral]

Oh yeah and Titus is a bit suspicious for me

My reads aren't very strong

[Dunnstral]

Elements is

[Dunnstral]

Pigman seems like the easy lynch, don't know if I'd consider him the correct lynch though. Dunnstrals excuse for not voting Elements is noteworthy if Elements flips scum.

There isn't much reason to vote Elements to begin with; they haven't done anything. I'm just listing out the mechanical benefits, which is... something I tend to talk about as town, as you'd know

[Dunnstral]

I believe bringing up the bodyguard point to begin with instead of simply calling him weak would've been better.

I did bring up the bodyguard point to begin with, though

[Dunnstral]

It's nai but it's a reason not to lynch him

[Dunnstral]

Sure -- and there isn't significant reason to believe otherwise, so that's good enough for me for now

[Dunnstral]

I'm simply responding to your points

[Dunnstral]

If the cards do not share a type: they'll never share a color, instead receive this bonus: all cards with the same color as those two cards are public cop'd.

[Dunnstral]

Town lynch and scum lynch:
The game is not in lylo and a card effect activates:

2 Attackers : The living mafia become lovers.
Does nothing.

We can avoid this if we lynch an attacker today

Uriel - Attacker/Healer - Night One neighborizer

Phantom Ninja, Jiraiya - Attacker/Devil - Can make a bah post before daystart+<prodtimer> consisting of an image of any other card

Date Masamune - Attacker/God - Disables daytalk in all his PTs.

Venus - Attacker/Healer, one-shot ability to become Devil/God

Haku - Healer/God, one-shot ability become Devil/Attacker

Amberjack - Attacker/Devil/Healer/God, N1 Bulletproof, N2 chooses three types to lose.

Specifically, one of the top 3 cards that cannot switch their types. If it results in a mafia lynch, Venus transforms - if mafia kill an attacker that night, we can lynch the last attacker to force another card effect

Thoughts?

[Dunnstral]

1. The mafia nightkill will be treated as compulsive this game.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Doctor Pepper

Well he's an attacker, and I'm not seeing any reason not to vote here

[Dunnstral]

Look at my role

[Dunnstral]

I don't get how you can say I'm a good kill strategy wise if you haven't looked at my role, to be honest

[Dunnstral]

Work week over, allow me to catch up this weekend and try to explain why I shouldn't be wagonned.

When even you need time to figure out why you shouldn't be voted, that's not a great look

[Dunnstral]

His pr is that he forms a neighborhood... Most other players have something better

[Dunnstral]

Pigman doesn't look like scum to me

[Dunnstral]

Do you town read pigman, or scumread Pepper?

Both

[Dunnstral]

I'm here.

[Dunnstral]

I'd prefer not to lynch pigman. What's wrong with lynching dr pepper?

[Dunnstral]

nice

[Dunnstral]

Dang, Elena died and I was townreading her :?

Note: I'm not the mafia

[Dunnstral]

Hi, I don't want to lynch Pigman, Shiki, or GeorgeBailey

[Dunnstral]

I thought the neighbor stuff looked good.

I don't think Elena dies there if GB is scum

[Dunnstral]

Why not shiki? And who'd you want to lynch then?

They don't look like scum to me and IDK

[Dunnstral]

So. Let me think about this. Can somebody explain to me what thepigman wagon was based off of in the first place?

[Dunnstral]

Lately it feels like if I'm not driving the game nobody does anything

Imperial decree says lynch Titus because she looks scummy

VOTE: Titus

[Dunnstral]

You guys obviously don't understand my role

[Dunnstral]

You have Night 1 Bulletproof. Night two, you may PM me to become only a God, only a Devil, only an Attacker, or only a Healer for the rest of the game.

[Dunnstral]

Tonight I will either ascend as a God, or throw it all away and Become a Devil, all according to my whims

[Dunnstral]

There's not going to be "a lot of resistance" in a game with only 2 scum

How were you interpreting Dunny's role here, Titus? Why did you think shooting him would mean no information?

Titus, can you answer this

[Dunnstral]

Dunny, why is Titus scummy?

Dunny, can you answer this?

Imperial decree

I'll unvote her based on the recent revelation of her not understanding my role

UNVOTE: Titus

I'll be here for deadline

[Dunnstral]

Lately it feels like if I'm not driving the game nobody does anything

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Elements

[Dunnstral]

2. Lynching will also be compulsive but that's an "Isis is modding so town suffers" thing, not specific to this setup, I use mafia lynch not plurality lynch.

You may need to self vote George.

[Dunnstral]

2. Lynching will also be compulsive but that's an "Isis is modding so town suffers" thing, not specific to this setup, I use mafia lynch not plurality lynch.

You may need to self vote George.

[Dunnstral]

"I want to focus on my godlike qualities!"
Dunnstral announced it to the world, not caring who knows it.
Visions run through his head of joining forces with other powerful gods for a god based team.

Spoiler:

Well, first things first.

Why would you ever pick God over Devil there, Dunny?

Because it provides 2 clears over 1? Mafia have to ch oose to clear 2 people over Town choosing to clear 1 person. Makes sense to me.

With that said, I'm not sure why nobody is revealed right now. I too must be missing something, I reread the god bonus too

[Dunnstral]

The optimal strategy for scum last night would be to night kill Pigman, because then it's the two colors don't match bonus, and it only ends up revealing Titus' alignment because the other fire card is dead

But that didn't happen

[Dunnstral]

2 Gods : If there are two living mafia, the mafia immediately strongkills one mafia and one townie. If there is one living mafia, that player public cops two other players.

This is what I'm reading for the power... I don't understand the IC talk, right now it doesn't seem like anything happened?

[Dunnstral]

You never checked the NK cheat sheet in any of the VCs?

Uh... no.

[Dunnstral]

The Innocent Child ability granted last night is an immediate reveal variant, that generates a moderator announcement at the first moment the player has the Innocent Child ability and is town-aligned simultaneously. There is no delay.

This is mod talk for "the mafia gave themselves the innocent child so it does nothing"

[Dunnstral]

I've been reading posts 1 and 5-13 for all my mechanical thinking

[Dunnstral]

My face when the mafia is allowed to give themselves the IC with no downside:

Spoiler:

[Dunnstral]

Also, I do find it kind of hard to believe you never opened up the NK cheat sheet and noticed the difference, Dunny.

Can you point me to where somebody acknowledges that the god role is described as giving a different bonus than what it was first described as?

[Dunnstral]

This game is going slowly let's do some fun setup analysis.
All same coloured cards share a type.
Two night kills for a card effect, that makes 4 deaths and 5 players remaining.

Let's start with only town lynches.
The game is in lylo and a card effect activates:

2 Attackers : The living mafia become lovers.
The game becomes one lynch and the game ends. Scum will have to push their buddy as town much more heavily and won't be able to bus for distancing reasons.

2 Healers : The town HEAL: s two players in a vote. If both those players are town, the town wins, otherwise, the mafia wins.
From random guesses there's a 3/10 chance of town winning just from random guessing, which aren't great odds. Everyone presumably starts by voting for themselves?

2 Devils : The town chooses a player, that player is public cop'ed.
2/5 chance of hitting scum. If we do then we can have a free day of association analysis from the previous two days and another night kill to look at. If we don't we have a 1 day IC who will get killed off the next night.

2 Gods : If there are two living mafia, the mafia immediately strongkills one mafia and one townie. If there is one living mafia, that player public cops two other players.
5 player lylo to 3 player lylo. A whole gallon of WIFOM over why scum chose which one of them they did more so than night kill WIFOM.

Colour Reveals
A better version of 2 Devils.



Town lynch and scum lynch:
The game is not in lylo and a card effect activates:

2 Attackers : The living mafia become lovers.
Does nothing.

2 Healers : The town HEAL: s two players in a vote. If both those players are town, the town wins, otherwise, the mafia wins.
From random guesses there's a 3/5 chance of winning which is great. The remaining scum has to be the most town read player. Some WIFOM but I don't think scum picks this option if they aren't the most town read.

2 Devils : The town chooses a player, that player is public cop'ed.
1/5 chance of hitting the last scum. If we do, we win. If we don't we have a one day IC and 4 players to sort.

2 Gods : If there are two living mafia, the mafia immediately strongkills one mafia and one townie. If there is one living mafia, that player public cops two other players.
Basically 2 devils.

Colour Reveals
A better version of 2 Devils.

maybe god and devil are the best with the public coping and literal killing of mafia.
no scum lynches, 2 healers is the worst by quite a way.
devil > god at that point?

1 scum lynch
healer becomes viable
God >> everything else
devil is good but not great

Hoctac, why didn't you point out that Elements analysis of the God role was wrong if you knew what it did?

[Dunnstral]

You guys are forgetting that I showed up at deadline and voted for Elements

[Dunnstral]

The last is very scummy. If George was willing to self-vote, he would be town, right?

Reread the post I quoted

[Dunnstral]

Dunn, who is scum?

Probably Pigman

Shiki- I was thinking that killing the other person with the god thing wouldn’t make sense if they truly understood what it meant.

It only makes sense if they understand what it meant

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Pigman

L-1

They weren't voting or around when Elements was voted out so this makes sense to me

[Dunnstral]

Also if elements misunderstood the god thing then it stands to reason their partner didn’t correct them, so their partner also didn’t understand it making a bus less town-worthy

If I didn't know the god thing was different from the setup info int he first posts, why would I kill into it?

[Dunnstral]

Titus you should vote Pigman instead of me

Look back at the end of day yesterday, I voted for Elements over George with 45 minutes to deadline

Me telling George he 'may' have to self vote is not scummy - I didn't move my vote off of Elements, I was willing to hammer George if there was no other option in the last few minutes (I did show back up right after the thread lock but before the deadline). The reason I told him that is because otherwise it lets scum choose anyone they want to kill, plus it serves as a reaction test. George lynching himself is a better outcome than nolynching, because then scum can choose to lynch him or anyone they want, it's not like a standard game, while scum him obviously wouldn't self vote

[Dunnstral]

What's up fellas

[Dunnstral]

Dang, Elena died and I was townreading her :?

Note: I'm not the mafia

What were you implying here? Do usually townread Elena and then nightkill her as scum?

No, as scum I usually scumread her

[Dunnstral]

What's the icky angle you speak of?

Hmm, I can give you a word to show why I think your play is relatively scum-indicative in this particular game regardless:

elituni

i think you would have simply stuck to meta here instead of spelling it out if you were mafia. maybe i'm wrong but i thought that at the time and i think it now. it also felt like there was an element of won't get fooled again to it.

This is lame reasoning

could you each please walk me through the beginning of day three from your perspectives? i have spent the last hour and a half or so looking over the game and the more i stare at that the more both of your reactions feel like they come from scum.

I'm afraid I still don't completely understand. Are you saying it's an ability that the IC can choose to activate at any time to reveal themselves as town?

As far as I can understand, what you've said indicates the IC should've triggered a moderator announcement immediately, since the IC will always simultaneously have the ability and be town-aligned.

like here it seems like hoctic understands what isis said but is willfully ignoring it in order to continue to oversell his confusion.

Because it provides 2 clears over 1? Mafia have to ch oose to clear 2 people over Town choosing to clear 1 person. Makes sense to me.

With that said, I'm not sure why nobody is revealed right now. I too must be missing something, I reread the god bonus too

and dunnstral's entire line feels like it was constructed in advance to cover his knowledge of what happened. like he noticed the discrepancy and used it as part of his plan. one problem with this might be that dunnstral would have possibly asked isis about it and then this:

NK cheat sheet wasn't meant to to have force-of-rules, but I forgot that at some point somehow, so the effect given was that from the cheat sheet, instead of

2

1 public cop.

probably would have been prevented?

outside of this i think it is most likely hoctic-town dunnstral-mafia. i really don't think scum!hoctic takes such an icky angle on me when he could have used meta to make a similar point. it's probably icky of me to townread an icky angle but i have seen something similar in a handful of games and each time it has come from town.

Are you sure you don't need to attack our posts preemptively because you had no such reaction?

[Dunnstral]

This sequence of posts looked scummy from Misty, but it doesn't read like theatre to me. These were Misty's last posts before he replaced out, even.

Does your opinion change if you know that if Shiki is scum, mafia can't talk in their pt during the day?

[Dunnstral]

I think not having the pt open, meaning they wouldn't be able to talk to each other, would lead to more genuine interactions in thread

I think it could easily be theatre, especially since that vote wasn't high value

[Dunnstral]

If the cards do not share a type: they'll never share a color, instead receive this bonus: all cards with the same color as those two cards are public cop'd.

I quoted post 1, and not the nk cheat sheet at the top of the page, to point this out.

So the question is... how far in advance did I plan for this?

[Dunnstral]

UNVOTE:

Why did you unvote here?

[Dunnstral]

and I don't remember you giving a stance on me.

Much of your posting has been nai in my eyes, while you were messing around with nicknames you failed to notice that Elements was talking about Public cops twice, and then sheeped a vote on Doctor Pepsi that was made using the same analysis you supposedly didn't read

[Dunnstral]

No... that doesn't make sense, the mafia gave the IC to themself, and Elements thought the god power was a double public cop

[Dunnstral]

Also let's clear something up; I didn't misinterpret anything. Everyone else collectively misinterpreted it, together, and I'm the one who is correct.

[Dunnstral]

Why didn't you comment on this if you disagreed with me?

I already knew what to do with my power, so I wasn't paying attention to your posts telling me how to use it

It can be either of you. i think you're being manipulative today and shiki isn't taking hard stances

[Dunnstral]

I thought it was shiki today until she posted 750

[Dunnstral]

If I had noticed that pigman had 'slipped' and was talking about doctor pepper after the lynch, I would have hesitated to lynch there a bit more

[Dunnstral]

It will probably be easier to read me by forgetting about the ic thing and looking at what I did do this game: I showed up at deadline and voted for the mafia to be lynched, and day 1 I talked about mechanics and voted based on a plan

[Dunnstral]

Really shiki, how likely do you think it is that I planned that vs I didn't know

[Dunnstral]

there had to have been a plan in place for anything to make sense,

why?

[Dunnstral]

why would elena fisher have been nightkilled otherwise?

There's plenty of reasons, implying it can only be because of ic shenanigans is silly. Killing two different colors was always a viable option as well

[Dunnstral]

The first is something everyone but Pigman did.

Not true. Shiki only showed up after a hammer had already been achieved. Sure, she said she was here-ish

[Dunnstral]

The simple answer is if I were scum, I wouldn't bus if It didn't result in me being townread for it

[Dunnstral]

Probably because you made so many doctor________ nicknames that I stopped associating it with him

[Dunnstral]

it doesn't make any sense for two mafia to intentionally misinterpret the same thing, especially since it links them.

Think about that some more

[Dunnstral]

so the plan for scum!me would have been what? to say i would be here-ish through the deadline and then not be and hope noone noticed?

Admittedly this seems weak. It's more likely for bussing to have been taking place

[Dunnstral]

There's plenty of reasons, implying it can only be because of ic shenanigans is silly. Killing two different colors was always a viable option as well

it isn't only because of ic shenanigans but it leaves that option open, and in retrospect it seems the most likely reason to me. at the time i thought mafia would want access to the lovers one as a backup plan in case one of them was lynched. the god one working as it did accomplishes the same thing.

I voted an attacker day 1 so mafia wouldn't have the lovers open as an option, though it was Elements who originally pointed that out

[Dunnstral]

Titus was scumreading George over Elements. If I voted for George, we would have lynched George.

[Dunnstral]

The point is she said earlier that she would be here-ish which tells scum!you that a lynch can probably be achieved without your help.

That's @this

[Dunnstral]

Pedit: How? I set two nicknames for DoctorPepper that started with "Doctor". How does Pigman asking about "DoctorPepper" have anything to do with those nicknames?

I have a proposal:

We can cover the whole list of nicknames if we ration it out between the whole playerlist - almost if this was planned all along. I have utmost confidence that we can pull this off if we work together on this.
Your allocations are listed below. I have included my own assignement, but please ignore that one; it is simply for my own reference and benefit. Similarly, you may ignore the sections for any names that are not yours. Once you have found your own name, and the two

Doctar

names below them, please proceed to the bottom of this post for further instructions.

Hoctac:

• DoctarMiranda
  
• DoctarPepsi

Dunnstral:

• DoctarCoke
  
• DoctarFanta

Elements:

• Doctar7up
  
• DoctarVimto

Elena:

• DoctarManjoJuice
  
• DoctarTango

Pigman:

• DoctarRio
  
• DoctarRubicon

clidd:

• DoctarDew
  
• DoctarLilt

Misty:

• DoctarFrijj
  
• DoctarYazoo

Titus:

• DoctarCocio
  
• DoctarDoctar

---

Hi! You made it. Okay, so please copy the template below and insert your Doctar names into the two [INSERT NAME HERE] sections, then feel free to post to the thread. I have faith in this town to pull this off.

Code: Select all

[b]I would like to assign [INSERT NAME HERE] and [INSERT NAME HERE] as nicknames for DoctarPepper.[/b]

[Dunnstral]

I wouldn't need anybody to switch. Just Titus. Read her iso, looking at her read on George

[Dunnstral]

Let me lay this out:

If I'm mafia, I can get georgebailey lynched, and then nightkill Hoctac, and that always results beneficially

It either gets the wrong color situation, where only titus is cleared, or mafia get to choose between devil or god, and we know how that turns out.

[Dunnstral]

You'd look real bad if you voted George suddenly with no progression.

I had no progression on Elements; false dilemna

[Dunnstral]

If I'm scum and was planning this stuff in advance, I wouldn't have even made that post about townreading george

[Dunnstral]

I was doing other non-mafia things, and popped in before the deadline

[Dunnstral]

Also, I didn't know what I wanted. I compromised on Elements because I thought George was town

[Dunnstral]

2. Lynching will also be compulsive but that's an "Isis is modding so town suffers" thing, not specific to this setup, I use mafia lynch not plurality lynch.

You may need to self vote George.

You guys understand why this is not a scummy post, right?

[Dunnstral]

Let me lay this out:

If I'm mafia, I can get georgebailey lynched, and then nightkill Hoctac, and that always results beneficially

It either gets the wrong color situation, where only titus is cleared, or mafia get to choose between devil or god, and we know how that turns out.

This applies for shiki as well

[Dunnstral]

so titus had not been around before her hammer and i said i would be around and was but was appearing not to be so if you get georgebailey to selfvote and say it was necessary because mafia lynch then hammer and set up a push on me the next day it doesn't necessarily seem like 'not a scummy post' to me.

I said he may need to self vote because it was questionable whether there would be a lynch otherwise.

If there wasn't a lynch otherwise, then mafia choose who to lynch, and they can choose to lynch Georgebailey if they want to, or whoever else they want to lynch to set up the perfect nightkill with powers

[Dunnstral]

makes any sense to me. at what point would they have noticed in this version of events?

I always clarify unclear mechanics with the mod as soon as I pick up on it when I'm scum. Want some links?

[Dunnstral]

How familiar are you with me as scum? You think I could be performing a gambit because it's me, or because it makes sense in this game?

[Dunnstral]

756 sounds like you're accusing me of tricking the mod

[Dunnstral]

Well I can't shake the feeling that Hoctac is playing in a manipulative way, it's most noticeable to me in posts that are addressed to me. In comparison, I liked your posts from 750 & beyond.

Sorry Pigman, Elena.

VOTE: Hoctac

[Dunnstral]

Well, I don't think I was going to be able to convince Hoctac otherwise even if I arrived at the correct decision

The IC vs public cop thing wasn't a big deal

if

the nerfed version with 1 public cop had went through instead, it was probably going to confirm Titus who would then die the next day. If it remained as the 2-shot version things could have been different, I'd guess it would be used on Hoctac

Setup wise: Near the start of the setup I discovered (?) that town can mess up with the card throws and make it so one person both needs a card-egg and has the card-egg, I don't like that being in the game as a (gotcha) as it's really punishing if it happens and I don't think that was the intent

[Dunnstral]

Well it's fine Isis - I also don't think an ic on mafia should be a valid target though, my understanding is that ic can only exist on town. The ic/1 public cop wasn't an issue because I believe Titus would have been cleared then killed regardless

[Dunnstral]

Enhance