Mini Theme 2412: Gacha Mafia

[shiki]

in hindsight i probably should not have /outed from the queue but i figured the demand was due to everyone else being at least as excited to play as i was.

[shiki]

Ah, so you've heard of my legendary neighborhood powers. You can now see my motivations.

what is your current read of georgebailey? i know you've said a few times you do not wish to lynch his slot today due to the neighbourhood, but you have not given a read either which is strange since your stated purpose for receiving that card-egg was to do so. i think it was pretty towny of you to ask for one of the neighbour eggs, as it is the same approach i would have taken with slight preference for the lucifer egg (which i would have reflavoured as monstrous cetacean of the clouds, moby dick both due to my fondness for the melville novel as well as how fitting it is if conflated with the white whale from re: zero which also flies, since that whale creates a mist of mental contamination [comparable to being in a neighbourhood with me] as well as a mist of elimination [the ability to lock the neighbourhood and not make it public] and one could easily mistake it for a god) because eliminating the neighbourhood has no benefit to town and mafia can be more easily pressured into releasing the pt to prevent being lynched than they can be stopped from locking the thread for mysterious reasons. i know you said you want to make the most use out of the neighbourhood, but if you think that you are both town the best time to lock and release the neighbourhood is the end of night one, as far as i can tell. i guess that last sentence is more useful if directed to georgebailey.

so Elena and Dunny are unaligned, and Titus and DocFanta are unaligned.

this was a joke post, but i do think there is a lot of information to be gained in terms of likely/unlikely to be aligned from the egg distribution. i think it is rather unlikely that elena fisher and georgebailey are scum together since there's very little strategic benefit to mafia sharing a neighbourhood. they are also the only two eggs that are guaranteed to be gods, but i don't think that's an angle mafia would mind cutting themselves off from. if we work from the list of throws georgebailey compiled:

Dunnstral threw to Elena Fisher

- elena fisher's proactivity in asking for this egg was pretty towny, so there's pretty obvious town motivation for the throw. scum would probably have the same evaluation of the situation and make the same throw, and since elena fisher did not reciprocate (for the kinda weird but probably nai reason of sharing a neighbourhood with dunnstral would be boring) and there is some utility to a neighbourhood for scum so it probably isn't enough to rule them out as partners.

Pigman threw to Dunnstral

- this one is highly desirable so it is always going to be plus partner equity but pigman's reasoning seemed pretty sound. if pigman is scum it is pretty likely that dunnstral is as well. if dunnstral is town then it's pretty likely pigman is as well. the inverses do not apply.

Titus threw to DoctorPepper

- titus's reasoning here (i want someone i am familiar with to have my card) only really makes sense to me if she was angling to be neighbourized, which feels very off to me. like scum would have more reason to want this.

Elena Fisher threw to clidd (GB)

- i do not think scum!elena fisher would throw to her partner here. why clidd though?

clidd (GB) threw to Hoctac

- eh. i think town wants this one in town's hands but i'm not sure the mafia would care.

DoctorPepper threw to Chemist

- this one feels inherently scummy to me since it was based on hoping to get lucky rather than a strong scumread but like doctorpepper said he was running out of options.

Hoctac aggressively threw to Elements

- hoctac stated a veiled townread of pigman so he threw to elements. checks out.

Elements threw to pigman

- it is hard to glean anything from this one as it was the only option left. it is only useful for town and that usefulness doesn't seem nearly enough for it to be something mafia would attempt to deny town, so elements not throwing it earlier also doesn't give us much information.

I replaced in right before I went to bed sorry lmao. Catching up now.

do you share clidd's read of elena fisher?

Based on other opinions to build my own, I can learn other angles that I was not able to observe, something that is different from a blind sheep, for example.

pigman's interaction with this and surrounding posts is pretty weird to me. simply having more information to base your reads in is good, especially since that additional information to base one's reads on also gives additional information on the person providing the information.

How am I a scapegoat?

Second this, as in what are people actually talking about? Scapegoat for what? Who called him scum?

clidd is working his way up to a scumread on me but he's trying to figure out if there will be support for it first.

titus was the first to describe you as a scapegoat, in response to clidd asking what her read of you was. clidd then asked elements if he agreed with titus's read.

I mentioned this earlier but I was thinking taking daytslk away from mafia would be good because then they'd have to figure out a way to communicate with each other in front of us which would make it easier to connect them later.

this doesn't really make sense to me (as why wouldn't scum just not do this? while it is beneficial for them to be able to communicate it isn't necessary as there isn't anything they need to coordinate during the day.) but it also doesn't feel scummy to me. like why would scum think they would need to communicate with eachother in the thread if they lost their daytalk. it's possible this is a complicated ploy but not making sense isn't really a tried and true way to be townread.

Forgive my ignorance but Hoctac, isn't the color coding just the color of the Card Egg thrown to you?

I mean Chemist is green because my card egg was green

^is Hoctac also Hectic?

If so I called him scum for this

very strong sense of dejavu here, so much so that it feels calculated to me. like doctorpepper rerecorded the sequence that culminated with this post:

VOTE: doctorpepper

The scum being in those positions thing was obviously a joke. Also don't rolefish kids.

Yeah I'll choose to take it seriously.

from chain of command in which hectic was making a similarly obvious joke about the mod putting scum in certain positions (while impersonating me) and doctorpepper took it at face value. in that game hectic was scum and doctorpepper was town and it feels like doctorpepper is trying to reuse that same dynamic to indicate that the alignments are the same because it does not seem reasonable to me that someone familiar with hoctac (as indicated by 268) would think this was a necessary clarification. it is possible that this was simply the result of doctorpepper applying the same thought process he had previously to this situation, or that doctorpepper believes this is something hoctac only does as scum, but neither or those make as much sense to me.

This game is going slowly let's do some fun setup analysis.

i don't see the purpose of this other than to help the mafia make an optimal nightkill. all of the role information is public and mafia chooses which town benefit to apply if multiple conditions are met.

titus is town

VOTE: titus because i can't remember anything you've said so far and you're at the bottom

what did you find towny between these?

Anyways, i'm compiling this because i'm pretty sure scum wants to throw to their teammate to make sure they get some sort of confirmable role. Scum is obviously not going to throw to each other, but look back at the patterns might help later.

all of the roles are confirmed and no two people threw to eachother, but i do think scum would be somewhat likely to try to secure beneficial roles and i agree that analyzing this information is worthwhile. thankyou for compiling it.

my reads at this time look something like:

elena fisher, hoctac
dunnstral, elements, georgebailey, pigman
doctorpepper, titus

but i'm not sure how much sense a potential {doctorpepper, titus} team makes because of titus's egg throw.

[shiki]

Pigman threw to Dunnstral

-

this one is highly desirable so it is always going to be plus partner equity but pigman's reasoning seemed pretty sound. if pigman is scum it is pretty likely that dunnstral is as well. if dunnstral is town then it's pretty likely pigman is as well. the inverses do not apply.

You sure about this one? It's just for night 1 and I'm sure scum are aware that passing to each other will look really sus upon one of them flipping. I actually think Dunny is slightly more likely to be town if Pigman is scum, due to scum probably being very cautious about passing this strong egg to a partner and then potentially being examined down the line.

is this because of the specific players involved or in general? the desirability of that egg isn't solely due to the night one bulletproof. i really do not think the mafia team would be particularly concerned with looking bad upon one of them flipping at the beginning of the game, especially given the setup. i did not consider that dunnstral might view it similarly to the way i have because of his knowledge of the setup and thus might be more likely to discourage this however. even then i think this knowledge probably sways it further in the other direction.

I still think Pig is better than Pepper, since he's at least done something scummy.

like doctorpepper, you have also taken hoctac jokes at face value in the past. do you think that past experience makes it more or less likely you would do so here? what effect would your alignment have on that likelihood?

[shiki]

Something about this whole "I'm trying to manufacture my meta" is a really flimsy and to top it off it paints me as scummy without being on my wagon?

i am on your wagon. your reaction to hoctac did not seem reasonable to me based on your prior experience. i am not inclined to take hoctac jokes seriously in the first place though so i asked georgebailey. your egg throw was also scummy to me as well as your saying you would catch up over the weekend and then not doing so.

[shiki]

How was my egg throw scummy? When I literally had 2 options left

DoctorPepper threw to Chemist

- this one feels inherently scummy to me since it was based on hoping to get lucky rather than a strong scumread but like doctorpepper said he was running out of options.

when you threw your egg you had 3 options: chemist, elements and pigman. you also could have thrown it at any point prior to this. the mission for your egg was, with very little wiggle room,

throw: scummiest player

. instead you ended up hoping to get lucky.

Also, you're using something non Alignment indicative to paint me as scum? Really?

i think not following through on promises of future content comes from scum more often than random. that said, i have a mixed track record of applying this to games, as i was wrong about bugspray in mystery box.

My mistake, the person you replaced voted for me and you kept it there?

It's a worse look because it looks like you're justifying the slot's vote

? the malicious intent you assigned to my vote being on you is a worse look for me than the malicious intent you assigned to my vote not being on you before i corrected you?

VOTE: shiki

you and doctorpepper hoping to sneak my lynch in before elena fisher moved her vote in fear of her moving it to him?

[shiki]

who's him?

doctorpepper

[shiki]

why am i scared about elana voting dp?

elena fisher's vote was on me and she said she would be moving it to doctorpepper or pigman. you and doctorpepper then both voted for me. this feels like it may have been an attempt to get me quicklynched before she voted. the 'why' would be because you are potentially partners, though i am tempted to simply ask 'why are you?'.

[shiki]

My problem now is that inactivity has been used against me to paint me as scum for two separate arguments now. Because I didn't throw my egg properly and because I wasn't able to commit to catching up. Both are NAI and are not indicative of this game state but rather external reasons.

you are reducing my argument to 'inactivity' in order to say it is not alignment indicative. it was not alignment indicative that you did not catch up over the weekend. however, it was scum indicative that you said you were going to catch up over the weekend and then did not. it was not necessarily alignment indicative that you waited to throw your egg, but then doing so at random instead of throwing at a scumread is scum indicative.

With 5 hours on the clock, and the wagons all broken up, its compromise time. Please join me, or atleast tell me who else you're willing to vote.

less than 3.5 hours now and no wagons with more than 2 votes. i would prefer to lynch doctorpepper or titus. if neither of those is possible, i'd prefer to compromise to elements over pigman. if needed, i will hammer pigman.

Pig is a good lynch, but with no one around we might have to swap.

i will be around on and off until deadline.

[shiki]

Dunn barely towncased pig and had almost

no reason to stay where he did

.

hypothetically, had doctorpepper and pigman been equally scummy to you, who would you have preferred to lynch?

Shiki's attempt to paint Pepper's throw as scummy seemed like reaching to me, which I should have mentioned but didnt since I panicked.

It felt like an attempt to bring Pepper's read out of null PoE.

i felt doctorpepper was scummy, though i did push harder for his lynch than i normally would have with the same amount of evidence due to the setup. i thought the resistance to it was either due to his partner opposing it or mafia opposing it in order to nightkill him.

Why's it scummy to want to be neighbourised? I see it as pretty NAI, since it's fun and good for info if you're town. I was also gunning pretty hard to try and get a hood, you didn't think that was scummy?

i would have also tried pretty hard to get either elena fisher's or georgebailey's role, as i said before. doctorpepper's role probably would have been my fallback option. i agree that neighbourhoods are fun and useful for both sorting those within and solving outside of. i don't think this is what angling to be neighbourized by the player you threw the neighbourizer to implies though. that feels more like a townread for townread situation, the sort of thing that would benefit mafia significantly more than town.

[shiki]

edit by way of post

Dunn barely towncased pig and had almost

no reason to stay where he did

.

hypothetically, had doctorpepper and pigman been equally scummy to you, who would you have preferred to lynch?

Shiki's attempt to paint Pepper's throw as scummy seemed like reaching to me, which I should have mentioned but didnt since I panicked.

It felt like an attempt to bring Pepper's read out of null PoE.

i felt doctorpepper was scummy, though i did push harder for his lynch than i normally would have with the same amount of evidence due to the setup. i thought the resistance to it was either due to his partner opposing it or mafia opposing it in order to nightkill him.

Why's it scummy to want to be neighbourised? I see it as pretty NAI, since it's fun and good for info if you're town. I was also gunning pretty hard to try and get a hood, you didn't think that was scummy?

i would have also tried pretty hard to get either elena fisher's or georgebailey's role, as i said before. doctorpepper's role probably would have been my fallback option. i agree that neighbourhoods are fun and useful for both sorting those within and solving outside of. i don't think this is what angling to be neighbourized by the player you threw the neighbourizer to implies though. that feels more like a townread for townread situation, the sort of thing that would benefit mafia significantly more than town.

[shiki]

Could you elaborate why Titus' angle was a "townread for townread" one? I don't think she even explicitely asked to be neighbourised in return.

throwing to someone because you are familiar with them implies that that familiarity is relevant to their application of the neighbourizer. it also implies that you are townreading them. for doctorpepper to apply that familiarity, he would have to neighbourize titus, which would imply he was townreading her. or at least i believe that to be the best use of the neighbourizer, which titus seems to agree with based on her description of the power of the role.

[shiki]

If so, why is it scummy for Titus to want to get into a neighbourhood with someone she's familiar with? The familiarity should mean they're better at reading each other, so it's beneficial to her as town. I don't think Titus is trying to ask for a townread in return by hinting she wants to be neighbourised.

what i meant by 'i believe that to be the best use of the neighbourizer' was to target a strong townread, i was explaining why that would imply he was townreading her. it's scummy for titus to try to be artificially townread simply due to her familiarity with another player. especially when that artificial townread would put her in a good position to manipulate them.

[shiki]

Titus is probably my strongest townread at the moment

followed by elements,

I think.

This is so lazy. You’ve done nothing at all to sort me. How on earth can you have me as your strongest read when you’ve hardly interacted with me nor questioned me about anything? Not to mention the fact that there’s so much more content from other slots that are far more suspicious than the few I’ve managed to get out considering I’ve been lost and struggling to keep up with this game in the first place.

is this what you're townreading?

The person with the largest wagon. Why do you ask?

i was trying to determine how much if any the setup would factor into your decisions.

[shiki]

I'll liberate you from having to play scum, shiki.

eh, this isn't entirely unfair based on what you know of me. it would be pretty easy for you to say 'shiki isn't as excited to play this wonderfully moderated game as she should be therefore she is scum' as scum though. what we need, quite clearly, is a churros but it isn't as though you are assuming that role either.

Oh, then Pepper. Pigman's ability seems useful if he's town, because I'm guessing he gets to talk to the dead?

i was thinking more along the lines of the typings and the correlated town bonuses. the short version is, i don't really think dunnstral makes sense as scum outside of as your partner or possibly pigman's.

[shiki]

Yeah, this feels a lot more like you scumplay, shiki. You say it'd be easy for me to say this as scum, but is there a reason you're more passive and less proactive this game then?

yes but you are aware of a post i somewhat recently made as scum also in response to 'you're being passive' more or less so it doesn't seem particularly useful for me to explain in order for you to then say i am drawing water from a familiar well. i did not enter the game in an attempt to be churros-lite because i have never done so before and immediately getting lynched for hugely deviating from the playstyle associated with me seemed likely.

[shiki]

Oh, I didn't remember the fact you'd be asked that while scum, but still, shouldn't your response differ if you're town? Since your response in that game must've been fabricated because you were scum.

Why do you keep bringing Churros up? You mean he's someone who would rejuvenate the life of the game?

here is the post in question:

i think perhaps what you are picking up on here is my frustration with myself and with mafia in general. i only played this game to honor my pre-in and because it was a blitz game. at the time of the first blitz game i hadn't yet been notably wrong so many times. i don't have any idea how to get anyone to listen to me here and i'm not even sure if they should. this games feels identical to hungarian 2 to me, in which i was sure eve was scum on day 1 someone else was lynched and i was sure eve was scum on day 2 and i was ignored and then i was nightkilled. the only difference seems to be that i am alive for day 3. a very large part of me wants to simply vote for umlaut. i can bear the weight of being wrong again and that feels preferable to being ignored if i am right.

much of this response isn't fabricated. there are notable differences between that game and this one, here i /outed from the queue because i thought others would be more excited to play than i was, but i replaced in when i became frustrated with players replacing out when isis was putting the amount of effort into the game that she was.

i keep bringing churros up because he replaced into two games i am aware of that were stalled similarly to this game and he broke those stalls.

[shiki]

Hmm, I can give you a word to show why I think your play is relatively scum-indicative in this particular game regardless:

elituni

which is fair and i assumed from the first post but that is the solution to this:

i did not enter the game in an attempt to be churros-lite because i have never done so before and immediately getting lynched for hugely deviating from the playstyle associated with me seemed likely.

like it is A -> B

which i also outlined in blitz ii.

[shiki]

Do you think so? Being more active and trying to solve is never gonna be seen as scummy simply because it differs from how you play as both alignments. I don't like how you're concerned about not entering with that playstyle because you're worried about "immediately getting lynched for hugely deviating from the playstyle..."

It doesn't sound like you have your priorities straight if you're thinking from a town mindset.

in reservoir dogs i, as town, was tunneled by ame, who was also town, from page 3 for deviating far less from my usual approach than that would have been.

[shiki]

I have a feeling it's Elements currently, but I think voting outside of the Pepper wagon is too risky. By PoE 1 of Shiki/Dunn is scum to me.

i think scum would have been resistant to lynching doctorpepper and those off the wagon (elements, pigman, titus) are most suspicious. i really don't think scum!dunnstral would cut himself off from beneficial options by staying on doctorpepper when he could have moved to pigman at end of day. it only really makes sense to me if you or pigman were his partner, like i said before. you seem quite towny to me. the pigman associative is strengthened by the egg throw so it lingers in my mind. however, he landed on doctorpepper after going over the setup before there was a pigman wagon so it seems more likely he is town to me.

VOTE: elements

[shiki]

What makes you believe scum would've been resistant to lynching the good old Doctor?

his typing (heart, sword) would give the mafia access to the most beneficial options to nightkill.

How have your reads changed from this?

an updated readslist:

georgebailey, hoctic
dunnstral, pigman
elements, titus

[shiki]

That's true, but it depends on the team and their priorities. They can't get an

OOPs

now.

I was thinking if both Elena and I decided to activate night 1, they would have a clean path into getting an

OOPs

by night killing us consecutively. They'd of course need to lynch one of Titus or GeorgeBailey though and the other would also need to be town for that to be good (since solo colours get alignment revealed)... there's a lot of factors involved.

do you disagree that dunnstral would prioritize that?

working out what you meant here is proving difficult. i assume elena should be titus, but even then i don't think i'm following.

What made Ele drop a tier?

his vote on me seemed like it was to get me lynched instead of doctorpepper.

[shiki]

Are you saying you value the healer and physical abilities less? I think they're all potentially the best/worst depending on situations. Like, if we have 1 obvtown, it makes the healers a lot better. If we have 1 obvscum, it makes the physicals a lot better.

? i am saying that i think mafia, or at least dunnstral as mafia, would have wanted to kill the heart/sword if available to them. it would have given them the option to choose between killing another heart the next night if they were both still alive or killing a sword if one of them were lynched.

[shiki]

UNVOTE:

[shiki]

UNVOTE:

[shiki]

unvote without explanation

i think the reasons for my unvote are pretty apparent; i did not explain them as i was waiting to see if pigman would respond to your reply. i also think it is kinda scummy you didn't unvote. i don't see how this:

Hoc can you summarize your doctorpeeper read? I haven’t paid him much attention yet

happens unintentionally. it is not as though pigman has not already posted today. it feels like he is leaning hard into what i said earlier about him.

not making sense isn't really a tried and true way to be townread.

[shiki]

unvote without explanation

i think the reasons for my unvote are pretty apparent; i did not explain them as i was waiting to see if pigman would respond to your reply. i also think it is kinda scummy you didn't unvote. i don't see how this:

Hoc can you summarize your doctorpeeper read? I haven’t paid him much attention yet

happens unintentionally. it is not as though pigman has not already posted today. it feels like he is leaning hard into what i said earlier about him.

not making sense isn't really a tried and true way to be townread.

[shiki]

Ok wait was that a joke. I think 551 was a joke lmao.

this is possible and it being directed to hoctic makes it slightly more likely perhaps. i don't see any similar jokes in his iso but one game sample size isn't much to go off of.

[shiki]

@mod please don’t prod - I’m limited access for the next 3 days. I’ll be back on Sunday.

Lynching deadline:(expired on 2020-06-13 21:59:59)

[shiki]

You guys obviously don't understand my role

do you think this is alignment indicative? seems like scum would be aware of it. from titus at least it is consistent with what she said earlier:

From a strategic perspective alone, a Dunn lynch isn't bad but I think Dunn is town. I would explain how scum could rig color reveal to get nothing via lynch and kill coordination but that would be anti-town.

maybe planned but in that case it would be weird to repeat it.

[shiki]

Who do you prefer to lynch today, shiki?

pigman > elements/dunnstral

I do recall asking shiki a question what her preferred lynch was a while ago, which she didn't get back to me on.

Hum

.

does this seem like a question i would find particularly difficult to answer as mafia? i don't really understand what your conclusion is here.

I'll be here for deadline

i will be here(ish) through the deadline.

[shiki]

VOTE: Elements

look i found a town

[shiki]

Agree. This is towny for shiki as well if she was intentionally waiting around deadline to see if anyone would hammer last minute.

i will be here(ish) through the deadline.

Okay, I'm gonna someone has the IC role and can choose to reveal themselves whenever they want.

i think from the way these are worded:

Lone scum picks someone to become an IC

This is the bonus that was granted. A living player has the Innocent Child role.

The Innocent Child ability granted last night is an immediate reveal variant, that generates a moderator announcement at the first moment the player has the Innocent Child ability and is town-aligned simultaneously. There is no delay.

no announcement = the innocent child is not town-aligned?

pedit: yeah

[shiki]

Who do you guys think for last scum?

(question to everyone)

i think i agree with this:

Pigman/Dunny

titus is very likely town and hoctic is likely town.

I have a feeling this wasn't the original intention and scum managed to bargain for it upon finding a loophole lol. I certainly wouldn't think of giving myself the IC if I was scum, so unless Isis preemptively told the scum this was an option (which she probably didn't), it means the scum must've thought of it on their own.

if mafia knew about it i think it might partially explain this:

Although one weird thing is, I'm not seeing a lot of resistance on Element's wagon, or anyone vouching they're town.

Either their scumbuddy is playing it cool and doing nothing, or this lynch is a no bueno.

both hoctic and dunnstral townread elena fisher and georgebailey and seemed okay with an elements lynch, which all could have been angling to keep this option open, but you can't both be mafia and i also townread elena fisher and georgebailey and was okay with an elements lynch.

Also if elements misunderstood the god thing then it stands to reason their partner didn’t correct them, so their partner also didn’t understand it making a bus less town-worthy

this feels like you have insider information. like how would it make sense for neither elements nor their partner to understand the god thing?

[shiki]

Pigman's also townslipped a couple of times which I'm leaning on being genuine.

(the genuineness of that)

i found it unlikely that pigman was being genuine before they were outed by the ban and now i find the likelihood to be nearing 0%.

[shiki]

VOTE: pigman

[shiki]

How sure of this were you, shiki? I agree it ends the game 70%+ of the time, but what if Pigman came back with an astounding explanation and townspew? You can't rule these things out ya know.

more than 70% sure; pigman has been mia for three days and i can't think of what an astounding explanation from pigman would be.

[shiki]

Haggle for 75% sure? What's your final offer?

probably somewhere in the 75-80% range.

[shiki]

could you each please walk me through the beginning of day three from your perspectives? i have spent the last hour and a half or so looking over the game and the more i stare at that the more both of your reactions feel like they come from scum.

I'm afraid I still don't completely understand. Are you saying it's an ability that the IC can choose to activate at any time to reveal themselves as town?

As far as I can understand, what you've said indicates the IC should've triggered a moderator announcement immediately, since the IC will always simultaneously have the ability and be town-aligned.

like here it seems like hoctic understands what isis said but is willfully ignoring it in order to continue to oversell his confusion.

Because it provides 2 clears over 1? Mafia have to ch oose to clear 2 people over Town choosing to clear 1 person. Makes sense to me.

With that said, I'm not sure why nobody is revealed right now. I too must be missing something, I reread the god bonus too

and dunnstral's entire line feels like it was constructed in advance to cover his knowledge of what happened. like he noticed the discrepancy and used it as part of his plan. one problem with this might be that dunnstral would have possibly asked isis about it and then this:

NK cheat sheet wasn't meant to to have force-of-rules, but I forgot that at some point somehow, so the effect given was that from the cheat sheet, instead of

2

1 public cop.

probably would have been prevented?

outside of this i think it is most likely hoctic-town dunnstral-mafia. i really don't think scum!hoctic takes such an icky angle on me when he could have used meta to make a similar point. it's probably icky of me to townread an icky angle but i have seen something similar in a handful of games and each time it has come from town.

[shiki]

What's the icky angle you speak of?

Hmm, I can give you a word to show why I think your play is relatively scum-indicative in this particular game regardless:

elituni

i think you would have simply stuck to meta here instead of spelling it out if you were mafia. maybe i'm wrong but i thought that at the time and i think it now. it also felt like there was an element of won't get fooled again to it.

[shiki]

Are you sure you don't need to attack our posts preemptively because you had no such reaction?

i checked the game quick when i received the daystart email and the thread was still locked so i assumed an announcement was still to come. when i was able to sit down to the game i read the day so far and made post 675.

[shiki]

I quoted post 1, and not the nk cheat sheet at the top of the page, to point this out.

So the question is... how far in advance did I plan for this?

it would have had to have been planned after egg distribution since post 183 appears to be the first instance of the nk cheat sheet, and it would have likely been planned before or during night one based on the nightkill leaving open the possibility. that post falls within the likely range.

Why did you unvote here?

i unvoted because pigman said something along the lines of 'i'm going to hammer as soon as i find a reason and also what do you think about a player who was previously lynched?'. it seemed very unlikely to me that that was unintentional.

[shiki]

Dunny, why is you not knowing about the correct interpretation of the Gods ability a townslip? We know that Ele was confused about it too, and he was scum. So if you are both scum, it'd actually make sense that both of you misinterpreted it and didn't correct each other in the scumchat.

shiki, do you think it's planned or a genuine misinterpretation?

i don't think the mafia both misinterpreted it because like dunnstral said the mafia gave the IC to themself. it seems planned from much earlier because of the first nightkill and the lack of resistance to the elements lynch, including from elements himself more or less.

Elements thought the god power was a double public cop

it seems more likely to me that elements was misrepresenting his view of what the ability did.

i guess i don't really know how to ask the questions i would like answered here. like if elements/one of you asked isis 'so mafia gets to pick someone to become an IC if there's one of us alive?' after having read this:

Lone scum picks someone to become an IC

and isis said 'yes' would she then be committed to that regardless? or if dunnstral made post 263 and elements made post 287 with the intention of misrepresenting their view of what the abilities did after having discussed the nk cheat sheet would isis be committed to it working how it did in the nk cheat sheet?

[shiki]

Really shiki, how likely do you think it is that I planned that vs I didn't know

it seems likely to me because there had to have been a plan in place for anything to make sense, and it is consistent with how elements presented himself at approximately the same time while discussing mechanics.

[shiki]

why?

why would elena fisher have been nightkilled otherwise?

Why did you make this post given mafia are more likely to realise that townspewed Titus and maybe NK her after you point it out?

i was excited. i didn't really think about what it would mean in terms of a nightkill.

[shiki]

There's plenty of reasons, implying it can only be because of ic shenanigans is silly. Killing two different colors was always a viable option as well

it isn't only because of ic shenanigans but it leaves that option open, and in retrospect it seems the most likely reason to me. at the time i thought mafia would want access to the lovers one as a backup plan in case one of them was lynched. the god one working as it did accomplishes the same thing.

Not true. Shiki only showed up after a hammer had already been achieved. Sure, she said she was here-ish

so the plan for scum!me would have been what? to say i would be here-ish through the deadline and then not be and hope noone noticed?

[shiki]

I voted an attacker day 1 so mafia wouldn't have the lovers open as an option, though it was Elements who originally pointed that out

yes, and at the time i townread you for it as discussed here among others:

? i am saying that i think mafia, or at least dunnstral as mafia, would have wanted to kill the heart/sword if available to them. it would have given them the option to choose between killing another heart the next night if they were both still alive or killing a sword if one of them were lynched.

but there being another plan that accomplished the same thing cancels that out.

[shiki]

If I'm mafia, I can get georgebailey lynched,

why did you wait until 45 minutes before the deadline to vote?

[shiki]

2. Lynching will also be compulsive but that's an "Isis is modding so town suffers" thing, not specific to this setup, I use mafia lynch not plurality lynch.

You may need to self vote George.

You guys understand why this is not a scummy post, right?

so titus had not been around before her hammer and i said i would be around and was but was appearing not to be so if you get georgebailey to selfvote and say it was necessary because mafia lynch then hammer and set up a push on me the next day it doesn't necessarily seem like 'not a scummy post' to me.

shiki, how have these recent interactions affected your read on the two of us?

i think i am in about the same place in general. i am still trying to determine if this:

I don't think they planned it from the start. I think they really misinterpreted it - at least at the beginning. it doesn't make any sense for two mafia to intentionally misinterpret the same thing, especially since it links them.

makes any sense to me. at what point would they have noticed in this version of events?

dunnstral's reasoning for why the deadline vote stuff makes him town doesn't seem very strong to me.

[shiki]

I always clarify unclear mechanics with the mod as soon as I pick up on it when I'm scum. Want some links?

i am aware of this and have factored it into these:

one problem with this might be that dunnstral would have possibly asked isis about it

like if elements/one of you asked isis 'so mafia gets to pick someone to become an IC if there's one of us alive?' after having read this:

Lone scum picks someone to become an IC

and isis said 'yes' would she then be committed to that regardless?

[shiki]

VOTE: hoctic

[shiki]

thankyou for moderating.

Scum PT is released once Elements and Shiki confirm.

/confirm

This game was somewhat indulgent using a flavor I'm familiar with that others aren't.

i really liked this about the game; the flavour seemed to be something you are passionate about and being introduced to things by those who are passionate about them is always enjoyable. if i were to pick a character as an idealized version of myself, i would choose master librarian goddess, kali. my main regret is not remaining in queue from the beginning in order to have received a personalized character. i attempted to play puzzle and dragons after looking through all of the characters but this mostly consisted of me rerolling the tutorial until i got a goddess of secrets, kali from the egg machine and then kinda burning the algorithm for maximizing her passive ability into my brain through repetition. i saved all of the eggs for the godfest but then i didn't roll a goddess of power, kali despite 2% so i decided it was time to retire.

Poor curation of the setup information led to a situation where absolutely everyone was disappointed,

sorry for messing up the game; hopefully this does not preclude me from joining your games in the future.

[shiki]

Shiki had a million questions about immortality, truancy, mythology and family, but she was provided no answers.

is it okay with you if i use this for my signature as seen below?