Redneck Mafia GAME OVER PARTNER!

[Iecerint]

VOTE: Lavender

DD is town.

I'd appreciate it if someone could define "3p" for me.

[Iecerint]

VOTE: Lavender

DD is town.

I'd appreciate it if someone could define "3p" for me.

first post. did lavender even do anything? wasnt even aware a player called lave der was in this game.

I had a town read on DD from something earlier than that on page 1, but I wasn't confident. Then, Lavender made a post that felt off to me, and I wondered if it meant Lavender was scum. Then DD's immediately next post was "Lavender is scum" or "that was scummy" or something like that. And I was like "OK, that makes sense. Whatever I picked up on, DD also picked up on." Then Lavender's post after that was like "I am cross with you because you said that," and then they disengaged from the game. The subsequent disengagement strengthened the prior read I had, because the behavior appeared to be motivated by self-preservation, which skews scummy.

So, my read is based on first my impression, and then the subsequent posts by DD and Lavender.

[Iecerint]

Oh well this was fast

Oh well this was fast

Not voting Pooky, hard scum read on Lavender.

Oh well this was fast

Not voting Pooky, hard scum read on Lavender.

Oh no I'm scum I guess I die

I misinterpreted DD's post at the time, though, probably because of my state of mind when thinking about Lavender's. It is obvious as I read it now that DD meant "Lavender is not voting for my silly Pooky wagon, so they are scum [/joke]." But I had thought that the "observing stance" of "Oh well this was fast" WAS scummy, so I read it at the time as "I will instead shift my focus on Lavender due to Lavender being scum." And I was like "Oh, I guess he is reacting to whatever I noticed, and what I noticed was in fact scummy."

[Iecerint]

I feel like some of the people posting arent even in this game

Who?

[Iecerint]

Unvote

VOTE: Vecna

[Iecerint]

Anyways I didn't really do anything, I posted a bit in the first page but that's it.

You either neglected to notice or neglected to comment on my posts characterizing why I voted for you upon reading the game. Which was it?

[Iecerint]

Oh well this was fast

I read this and thought "Lavender is observing the game without playing it or trying to solve it. That is a thing that scum do more than town. It feels scummy."

Oh well this was fast

Not voting Pooky, hard scum read on Lavender.

Because I was already thinking the above, when I read this post, I read it as "[I'm] Not voting Pooky, [Because I have a] hard scum read on Lavender." But seeing more content from DD (and not being in the same state of mind) I now see that this was not the intent of the post -- the intent is "[For] Not voting Pooky, [I have a "joke"] hard scum read on Lavender."

Hope that is clear. The point is that my thought process when I read Lavender's post influenced how I read an ambiguous post by DD.

[Iecerint]

Unvote

Vote: Lavender

[Iecerint]

Whew, I had to take a couple water breaks trying figure out this post as well........maybe pump the brakes on excessive punctuation?

Let me know whether my secondary parse of it was correct

[Iecerint]

I waited to hear from the Mod to make sure talking about meta/completed games is reasonable, since the site has apparently shifted in a very conservative direction in terms of rules and roles. I have heard that this kind of rhetoric is still allowed.

I compared Lavender's play in this game to their play in the Baker's last game, which ended in late May. I did this because their behavior in this game looks scummy, but some players simply have a detached playstyle regardless of alignment. I think there is a meaningful difference between Lavender's play in that game and this game. In that game, where they were town, they do use language and syntax in a somewhat similar way such that a detached feeling results, but they do not coast and instead have an easy time quickly critically assessing posts.

This realization was related to my re-voting Lavender.

[Iecerint]

Conservative and Mafiascum in the same sentence? Ha.

Why did you make this post?

[Iecerint]

In that particular moment, you framed a post about alignment-finding as if it were a joke at no one's expense. This is a clever and fun way to direct the attention of the thread away from the content in the post. So, my inference is that you did that intentionally, because you read the post enough to make that post, but you still made

that

post. I think this behavior helps scum, so it makes me think that scum performed the behavior.

I have never played with you before, so it is possible that there is another explanation for your behavior other than that you are scum. So, I asked you why you posted that in order to learn other explanations for your behavior.

[Iecerint]

I made a joke because I was bored, and left the alignment stuff in your post for someone smarter to use later.

OK. Hmm.

When you read my post, what was the name of the emotion that you felt?

[Iecerint]

I made a joke because I was bored, and left the alignment stuff in your post for someone smarter to use later.

OK. Hmm.

When you read my post, what was the name of the emotion that you felt?

[Iecerint]

Unvote

[Iecerint]

OK. So, something about my posts humiliates you and makes you angry and dissociated. As a result, you do not want to engage with the posts, and you behave in a more provocative way. Does that sound correct?

[Iecerint]

"Bemused" means confused. You mentioned that I made you feel that way, and then made a follow-up post about how I was very naive and emotionally vacant. Demonstration of feelings through actions occurs when people are angry or dissociated, so I inferred that you were angry or dissociated. (I infer from your follow-up description that perhaps you meant "amused.")

[Iecerint]

It is not my intention to humiliate you.

[Iecerint]

@EJ, not you

[Iecerint]

Venite loqui aliquid aliud. Et hoc subiectum sit molesta.

I think this has helped me to understand you a little bit better. But, my guess is that you do not feel very understood. I regret that.

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Is it really 'trying' to pocket you when I'm just being myself?

On that note, is this "you," or is this an alt with a style you are (now chronically) "trying on"? I saw in your GTKAS that this was originally an alt of another account.

I am asking because I am perfectly happy to read you via your emotional behavior, but how to go about it will depend upon how much is artificial regardless of alignment and how much is artificial due to your being scum.

[Iecerint]

Thanks~! (My name comes from 9th grade )

[Iecerint]

VOTE: Almost50

I read his iso after seeing the vote-count. His content seems focused on solving puzzles unrelated to player alignment.

I noticed that both players currently voting for him are mentioned by him in his first post. May reflect that the current votes aren't serious and reflect affection/friendliness. I have not yet checked. Would appreciate clarification.

[Iecerint]

|.o)
I'll just wait here...

What are you waiting for?

[Iecerint]

|.o)
I'll just wait here...

What are you waiting for?

Questions I suppose.

Who do you think is scum? Why do you think that?

[Iecerint]

Drew maybe, just a feeling I get.

Can you think about your feeling and then put it into words?

[Iecerint]

Although I verified each and every word you typed her is indeed an English word; I have no clue what you just said. Wanna try saying that in Japanese?

Your posts are town-hunting, PR-hunting, 3p-hunting, and/or general information about mafia. Scumhunting is missing in your posts. Scumhunting missing in posts is scummy until demonstrated otherwise. That is why I voted for you.

[Iecerint]

@A50, here's your iso and my sense of each post:

Fun fact: I am disappointed I didn't roll scum in this game in particular. Drew said he wanted to be scum with me in the sign-up thread and I though "I wish that happens and our third would be Jay!". Looks like I didn't cross my fingers or press my thumb hard enough (or whatever you guys do to get your wishes to come true".

Fluffy first post referring to friends. Includes a reference to Pooky in the deleted part. No scumhunting.

Wasn't that the case in the baker's wrestling game we just finished?

Shooting the shit. Not scumhunting.

It's only @3 votes I believe???

Game state "helpfulness." Not scumhunting.

You obviously haven't played with Firebringer or Not_Mafia before.

Shooting the shit. Not scumhutning.

Do as you wish. You'd probably get a kick out of my flip anyway (but not what you're implying for certain).

This kind of comment is PR-hunting.

@Drew: Wouldn't you like yo wait to see a confirmation that the scum team is indeed of 3 persons? I mean, how would you feel if did lynch me, and I flipped Town, and some Vig shot a Redneck, and they flipped with a Role PM that said "You are Scum with [redacted], [redacted] & [redacted]" or "Hello [redacted], [redacted], [redacted] & [redacted]. You are the Rednecks team.." or anything similar?

ATE. Comes from a mindset that did not at all mirror mine at this point in my readthrough. Could reflect your history with players in the game (i.e., my thought expressed before that your relationship with Pooky or Drew could be a variable I'm not accounting for -- but Pooky said no at least for his vote).

You nailed it. Some of us (myself included) would try to claim or hint a role on RVS for the lolz. It also serves to hide any potential serious crumbs made by other TPRs. (I wish I could explain more, but I can't without revealing a couple of things I don't wish to reveal at this time, so maybe sometime later)

I guess this contextualizes your behavior that bothered me above. But it is flawed in that it errs if other players are not rational actors and it is noisy.

Town/Scum/SK/Survivor/Moderator/Spectator crumb detected. Now tell me HOW am I going to be wrong this time.

Noisy. Not scumhunting.

Noisy. Not scumhunting.

How the hell did you end up receiving one to begin with? UNBELIEVABLE!

Noisy. Not scumhunting.

Man. he's not saying he can confirm "1-shots". He is saying he gains a 1-shot of whatever ability he's targeted with, so can confirm the ability exists. (Ex: A Cop is on Alch. The Cop fails to get a result, but Alch gains a 1-shot Cop ability and that proves a Cop is in the game)

Being "helpful" while avoiding the more important point, which is whether Alchemist is scum and what to do if he is 3p.

It really isn't though. For instance; Janie's not a member of NRA, yet..

Noisy, not scumhunting.

This is a new one. He fake claims backup mod. Not even EJ could've thought of that.

Noisy, not scumhunting

A50: Mine comes from post-school era
JJD: Thanks for sharing
A50: Don't mention it. I'm always glad to give back to the community

Noisy, not scumhunting. You matched EJ/my behavior, apparently inferring that it was merely playful. But, it was actually tied into what EJ had indicated was the best mechanism for reading him (i.e., to do it in a schizoid way). But you did not observe our interaction as a way to collect information about alignments, despite this, fitting the pattern of engaging with the game in superficial ways that do not indicate a desire to find scum.

So, overall, you have posts that distract from the important town tasks, which is parsimoniously explained by a scum identity. There may be a way to explain it away that I do not know (e.g., some stuff I allude to above at times, maybe other things that I will not know unless you tell me).

[Iecerint]

4- What scum-hunting do you expect me to do in the opening 10 pages or so? Mod dodn't even provide me with my "truth extraction" tools yet. He said the shipment got delayed due to covid-19 and when it finally arrived it was detained by the costumes because they found out some of it was Chinese made.

I expect you to approach the game as if the game is an object that can help you find the scum. I think this is generally how players who are town approach mafia games, because that is how town win mafia games.

[Iecerint]

Serial Killer would be anti-Town because its wincon is in direct conflict with Town’s. I’m just plain neutral.

Please clarify how serious you are about this idea.

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I doubt the presence of jesters, especially in large games. If jesters are everywhere on the site nowadays, please correct me. I think imagi-Jester should not prevent executing Alchemist.

I'll confess that I have a fondness for 3p that makes me not want to execute them. Even rationally, I think some 3ps should be executed and some should not. I don't think it's all-or-nothing. In the ancient times it was all-or-nothing because 3p mostly meant SK, which should definitely be executed because it reduces the number of executions for town.

In Alchemist's case, I think the vagueness of his claim does skew scummy (meaning, opens the possibility of scum fakeclaiming vs anti-town 3p). His "confirmation" plan doesn't really confirm anything important and takes at minimum 2 days.

[Iecerint]

(I get that you posting a comedian doesn't really communicate unambiguously that you're serious, but.)

[Iecerint]

@Vecna, why do you think Elsa is scum?

[Iecerint]

TOWNIES

DrippingGoofball
username
vecna
Elsa Jay
Doctor Drew
aLMOST50

SUBURBANITES

pisskop
Lavender
TemporalLich

FARMERS

Logicalicaltist
gobbledygook

???PASTURE???

Pooky
Pine
Alchemist21

DGB I am hurt

[Iecerint]

Would like to see why she has the scumreads that she has. AFAICT she has never commented on either of them. She has commented a lot more on her self-labeled ("???PASTURE???") policy executions (at least Pooky and Alch).

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When did I vote for DGB. I don't even remember.

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Yeah, that's mistaken. I'm voting for A50.

Mod, is there a VC error?

[Iecerint]

I didn't mention them before because I had not iso'd everyone.

What about now?

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I came out of my exchange with Elsa thinking he is probably town, but I have also never played with Elsa before as I infer many of you have.

Mentioning because I think both Vecna and DGB have listed a scumread on Elsa, and I am inferring that their scumread is related to how he engaged with me. I may be mistaken in my inference.

[Iecerint]

What elsa did I miss?

There's either a mod error or someone stole my vote.

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Tbh DGB doesn't seem particularly town to me, but I signed up for this game because I recognized ABR and DGB, and ABR skipped out. So I get a guilty feeling when I think about how I think she's not town, which leads me to think less about voting her. I mention this because I don't understand Pooky townreading her -- whether it's based on DGB being fun and wanting to play with DGB, or whether it's based on DGB's likely alignment.

I've never played with A50. They perked up after I interacted with them. I still like their elimination. Open to relevant meta (e.g., whatever TL alludes to, would like to hear something more specific from him).

[Iecerint]

So, that applies to Pooky for DGB and TL for A50.

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Glancing at his iso (I read the first 50% of it and read nothing in context), I think he seems a lot more laid back in that game. He also tries to eliminate noisiness in that game; I noticed he specifically defendeded you when people apparently criticized you for doing the same. Contrast to this game where he is affectively brittle and became defensive specifically when I said that his posts were noisy, with the character of his defensiveness saying that he was playing "to have fun" (i.e., rather than disputing that he was noisy).

[Iecerint]

(Thanks for the more concrete example.)

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I didn't get mad at the "noisy" part. I got mad at the nonsense of accusing me of PR hunting (and you have yet to explain how that post was in anyway PR hunting).

1. Alluding to having an interesting role invites other people to make similar comments based on social reciprocity. That's PR hunting.
2.1. You said something like "I'll would play however you want, because I play to have fun!" Nothing else in my post could be construed as a playstyle criticism. Your framing of it as a playstyle criticism distracted from my broader point, which is signal-to-noise. You do not have this problem in at least one town game (cf., what TemporalLich posted).
2.2. Unless you're saying that you meant "I'll PR hunt as much as I want, cuz I wanna have fun!" Which. I guess that's possible (because you allude to a "strategic" reason for doing this in another post), but it's bizarre that you'd both deny doing it, and then defiantly say that you'll do it as much as you damn well please.

You also said I was AtE'ing in another post of mine and I fail to see that

The post in question includes a variant of "just wait til I flip town."

scum never need to townhunt as they already know who is on their team and who is not).

Yes, wrong language on my part,

townhunt

buddying. This is part of why I allude to not knowing your previous history with players (as an alternate explanation for your behavior + soliciting POVs). Your weirdly obsessive (and that's coming from

me

) theoretical digression about townhunting is irrelevant to your alignment or the alignment of anyone in this game and fits the signal/noise pattern.

Now let me figure out what all you wrote after that post.

[Iecerint]

I am not going to talk about this any further (the last time I did I slipped my role inadvertently while engaging in a setup spec conversation.

This is a good example of why the behavior is PR hunting. (It is also possible to have false beliefs about whether it is PR hunting as town.)

[Iecerint]

I mean, how would you feel if did lynch me [sic], and I flipped Town[...]

[Iecerint]

(To be clear, the post is not in the context of pressure.)

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OK. Better you than someone else.

*elsa

Yup.

?

[Iecerint]

50 is town.

Which content is this based on?

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That makes sense. His style does match the game TemporalLich posted more closely starting about exactly at that moment (dunno if your meta comes from that, or something else). The style change was so abrupt that at the time I thought he was giving up and just admitting he was scum, and that that was the cause of him feeling more relaxed, but I couldn't tell why he would do that so quickly. It turned out that he was spewing set-up info/speculation, which...made him more relaxed? I don't really understand it regardless of his alignment.

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If I were to change my vote, it would be to Alchemist. I need to read the last 10 pages though.

[Iecerint]

Jesus make that 20?

[Iecerint]

ermaguhd

The

Third Party

Seems

Helpful


to
Town

lol

[Iecerint]

Literally claimed it way earlier and no one batted an eyelash or complained but by all means tell me how to play mafia

To be honest I am actually reading and I don't know what your role is at this point in my read for some reason.

[Iecerint]

That brings up a good point A50, I am a bit sad that I believe you are scum.

This is interesting because I don't think I thought that DD though A50 was scum.

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Now, with Alch's claimed win-con (assuming it is true).

Did he actually claim a win-con? I only remember him saying he gets *goodness* by being targeted at night.

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Besides I've claimed VT enough on day one to know that scum expects me to do that whether I'm a VT or a PR flying under the radar

Hey, EJ.. here's another member of the club of "Don't believe anything they claim"

What is your goal in engaging in this way?

[Iecerint]

Why do you assume he's a liar as a 3p? I lie more as a townie then I ever did as a 3p.

Somehow this brought me some joy.

[Iecerint]

65 and 626

These could have been written off as D1 memes, but the defensiveness and psychological projection means these are 95% actual scumslips

(if not, we still might be better off misliminating drew than correctly eliminating Alch)

pedit: I'm saying you're anti-town

DD is just the tip of the iceberg for anti-town posting in this game. I do not understand how these posts differentiate DD from >50% of the playerbase. Why do you think that they do?

[Iecerint]

Why do you assume he's a liar as a 3p? I lie more as a townie then I ever did as a 3p.

I lie much more as town than I ever do as SCUM!

^ Case in point for generalized anti-town posting this game.

Pedit: OK. Uh. Why do you think that disinhibition is scummy? That's the opposite of what I would generally expect someone to infer, but it sounds like it is what you think.

PPedit: Yes, I actually think he is town, too. But, I have suddenly found some of his thinking bizarre 5 pages ago (but not before really AFAIR).

[Iecerint]

Why not a PGO?? I mean, THAT would be the first idea to hit my mind when I see someone asking to be targeted.

Yes, that too. He could be PGO.

Or aesthetic reflexive cult recruiter

He could literally be any number of things and I find it bizarre that people are taking his claim at face value

I thought about cult too! I know that is not the point of your post but I feel special to have wondered the same thing (even if you criticized the thought and rejected it)!

I think his role is probably likely to be related to his claim in some way, because it is an awfully bullshit claim (or role). But I think I have tried to resist posting my private theories until you enabled me! (Maybe it's all social contagion?)

[Iecerint]

not really holding a real SR of their own.

Frankly most of the people in this game are guilty of that.

Something about you is so charming.

[Iecerint]

Let the 3P prove themselves please, instead of getting rid of them without giving them a chance first.

The 3P isn't in a position to prove anything interesting about themselves, and it would take until D3 at the earliest, and scum will obviously interfere with this at this point and keep it from working, so it will take longer vs be easy to feign it taking longer.

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OK, well, I read it.

A50 continues his style change since after I made him angry. I'm not sure what to make of it, but he does seem less scummy now.

Alchemist would be a fine lynch. It's hard to get excited but it's silly to be upset about it. I used to be offput by DGB's ZEAL, but it's less spooky than outrage about it.

DD has seemed non-specifically more scummy as the thread continues, but the rate of people saying that he is scummy as town as gone up proportional to the increase in the scummy behavior. So I don't know what to make of that.

[Iecerint]

But what am I arguing? You guys want to go down the least optimal route on D1 and the idea is gaining momentum!

Set ups are on average balanced so that claiming on day 1 is unwise. While it is possible that this does not apply to this game, it is reasonable to infer that scum have a way of messing with open plans to break the game at night. And, if he is lying, regardless of his alignment (other3p vs scum), then none of that matters.

Scum are never going to kill the 3rd party at night. That is a bizarre fantasy. For one, he is an easy "non-scum" elimination during the day. For two, 3ps have a higher rate of night kill protection than other roles. And he won't be killed if he's scum.

[Iecerint]

I don't see A50 happening today given his new perkiness, and I don't know what to make of his new perkiness.

VOTE: Alchemist

[Iecerint]

a50's perkiness is his 'oh crap dont lynch me' perkiness.

OK, well, more importantly, do you think that has anything to do with his alignment?

[Iecerint]

Is it just me or can I undersyand Lecerint better?

I almost lampshaded my emotionally dysregulated posting last night. I didn't because I decided it would be noisy. If your comment is based on my posting from yesterday, my guess is that that is what you are reacting to.

[Iecerint]

Almost50 is scum.

I'm happy to vote him with you~!

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I think scum are letting this play out with that goal on their minds. Waste the day time on non-productive arguments and end up eliminating Alch on the last minute anyway.

Who do you think is scum?

[Iecerint]

I've just said I suspect scum are those who are OK with voting Alch but not pushing it wildly.

Wanna be more specific?

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I've voted for you since the last VC.

If you think Logicalicaltist is scum, why not vote for him?

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I mean, this is really

unfair

. You TR says she's worried about a 3P voting, so said 3P complies and revokes his vote. Now you accuse him of not wanting to scum hunt because he isn't voting? It looks like the definition of "damned if you do damned if you don't" to me.

If DGB tells you not to scumhunt, it's reasonable to find it weird when someone complies. Saying "but I'm 3p anyway" is only valid if you're actually an anti-town 3p.

I think you are smart enough to know this, so I think the main purpose of this post is to ingratiate Alch to you by appealing to your fantasy of his hurt feelings.

[Iecerint]

I had a long post that got eaten, so I will do a shorter version.

Alch's reads make sense to me. Salient absences I notice are me and A50. I think he would still be a reasonable elimination today if need be in the same boring way that this is true of any 3p player. That said:

Unvote

Vote: A50

His posts either did not engage with the game (first half) or they focused on solving puzzles

other than

the alignment of players (second half). His meta suggests he is capable of working to solve the game as town, which means that this can't be explained away as playstyle. (He IS still obsessional about mechanics in other games, but it's germane to simplifying the game and narrowing alignment possibilities in those games -- here, the same behavior does not serve the same function.) Therefore, I think that scum alignment best accounts for his posting.

Examples of the above:
1. Refer to my previous iso for a summary of his first half of the game (i.e., period of superficial engagement).
2. Engagement around username->Alch around "fairness" is irrelevant to username's alignment and ignores that Alch is not town. (Or, if he had a belief that the behavior WAS related to username's alignment, he did not say as much)
3. Engagement around DD scumreading A50 similarly seems designed mainly to build alliance with DD, rather than to interrogate how DD scumreading A50 is related to DD's alignment.

Re: Lavender: Their behavior certainly seems affected and one-dimensional. I understand thinking it could be an alt as a result. They are less one-dimensional in the other Baker game, I think, where they were town. So I think they could be scum (cf., similar logic as for A50 above, with this accounting for the contrast). I think it was DD and A50 who said that they didn't notice a difference between this game and the other Baker game re: Lavender, so I kinda gave Lavender the benefit of the doubt. The emotional reaction to engaging with them also makes me (irrationally) stop pushing them (e.g., emphasizing that they are being persecuted [without stipulating directly that you are persecuting them, so as to preserve alliance], that they are trying their best, etc). I think that Lavender would be my 2nd choice.

Gobble could be scum but A50 voting them makes me want to lynch someone else tbf.

[Iecerint]

OK, how do you read these two [Alch/DD] and why? I don't eliminate players I know could be strong Town assets on D1. I won't vote either of username/DD today is all I'm going to say. Make of this what you wish.

I have stated clear opinions on both of these players in the thread itself. I have said that I think that Alchemist is 3rd party or scum and should be eliminated. This belief was reflected in my saying as much and voting for Alchemist. I think that DD's play is scummy, but multiple people have said that he has a scummy playstyle. I think I remember DD having some kind of acknowledging/gleeful post after I said as much. I have not independently read his play in other games to vet this idea, but am OK trusting the POV for now based on how pervasive the idea is.

Saying that you will not lynch someone

claimed not-town

due to their being a possible "strong Town asset" does not make sense. He will not be a Town asset this game because he is not Town.

[Iecerint]

Gee! I thought YOU accused me if "Town hunting" on that first half. I guess that didn't work and you are changing the narrative now?

I have already discussed this with you. You and I both know that this statement from you is rhetorical and disingenuous.

[Iecerint]

His meta suggests he is capable of working to solve the game as town

When? On the first half of D1?? Does my meta NOT point you to the FACT I ALWAYS enter the game with fluffy posting and memes? You should be glad I'm not posting more GIFs and Music Videos.

1. I read your posts in your previous game with Lavender. I noticed that you were in the thread when I read her iso when I thought she was scum early this game. We discussed this.

So...uh, to be honest, I didn't read the meta game I thought I did. I thought I remembered reading a game that had you and DD and Lavender in it, and that you seemed really obvTown in that game. Then I remember you making some comment in this thread about having been 3p in that game, and my double checking that you were town in the game I read (you were, so I reasoned you were talking about a 3rd game). But whatever game I read clearly wasn't the other Baker game with Lavender as I had thought. But, I read the game in question around the same time that I posted about your iso in this game.

2. It's perfectly possible to post GIFs in the service of solving the game. I am criticizing the function of your behavior rather than its form. I make this explicitly clear in parts of my post that you did not quote.

[Iecerint]

Re: Lavender: Their behavior certainly seems affected and one-dimensional [...such as...] emphasizing that they are being persecuted [without stipulating directly that you are persecuting them, so as to preserve alliance], that they are trying their best, etc)

Call me dead-weight go for it, at least I'm participating the best I can.

E.G.

[Iecerint]

I am voting for Almost50

[Iecerint]

OK, how do you read these two [Alch/DD] and why? I don't eliminate players I know could be strong Town assets on D1. I won't vote either of username/DD today is all I'm going to say. Make of this what you wish.

I have stated clear opinions on both of these players in the thread itself. I have said that I think that Alchemist is 3rd party or scum and should be eliminated. This belief was reflected in my saying as much and voting for Alchemist. I think that DD's play is scummy, but multiple people have said that he has a scummy playstyle. I think I remember DD having some kind of acknowledging/gleeful post after I said as much. I have not independently read his play in other games to vet this idea, but am OK trusting the POV for now based on how pervasive the idea is.

Saying that you will not lynch someone

claimed not-town

due to their being a possible "strong Town asset" does not make sense. He will not be a Town asset this game because he is not Town.

Where the hell did you get I was asking you about the CLAIMED 3P?? I was asking about USERNAME.. the slot you said my engagement had nothing to do with their alignment.

And your read on DD is "I dunno, but I will make it look like a convoluted big I DON'T KNOW with as many words as possible"??

I read most of the game thinking that Username was saying he was ABR, at least after he said BUT I'M HERE awhile ago I have thought that Username was ABR in the setting of thinking he was ABR. I have come to realize that probably he meant to intimate being kuribo. I'm not sure how that changes my thinking really, but I would say that it makes me trust my initial feelings less, because they were based on a false premise of Username being ABR.

[Iecerint]

I am voting Almost50, not Alchemist. Your vote count is in error.

I would switch to Lavender.

[Iecerint]

I read most of the game thinking that Username was saying he was ABR, at least after he said BUT I'M HERE awhile ago I have thought that Username was ABR in the setting of thinking he was ABR. I have come to realize that probably he meant to intimate being kuribo. I'm not sure how that changes my thinking really, but I would say that it makes me trust my initial feelings less, because they were based on a false premise of Username being ABR.

Another "I don't know" in even more words?? WTF?? You didn't even say what the read was when you thought he was ABR! Y'know.. the ine that you're no longer sure of??

When I thought he was ABR I thought Username was town. I still think he's probably town.

[Iecerint]

Here are my reads in order:

TOWN

Iecerint
Elsa
Username
DGB
Pooky
Pisskop
TemporalLich

Pineslot
gobbledygook
DD

chkflip
Vecna
Lavender
Alch (claimed 3p)
Logicalicaltist
A50

SCUM

[Iecerint]

so instead of engaging me on my earlier posta youre just gon a passively shuffle me into the red pile eh?

What post are you imagining I would engage with you around?

[Iecerint]

id like to point out that iecerint hasnt as much mentioned or u teracted with me or chkflip, yet is apparently scumreading us.

Im calling you out iecerint. explain the reads, the process of getting there, and why you have not tried to steer a single vote there.

The reads list is exactly in order. So, even though you and chkflp are toward the scumside, you are not in my top 4 scum. I think that I have only commented on my strongest scum reads in-thread (and a handful of town ones).

I am surprised that you focused on yourself and chkflp rather than Logicalicalist, since he is ranked more toward the extreme side, and he is someone I do not remember mentioning at all.

[Iecerint]

yeah I still don't get Iecerint's later posts, especially the lead rist

What specifically are you talking about?

[Iecerint]

id like to point out that iecerint hasnt as much mentioned or u teracted with me or chkflip, yet is apparently scumreading us.

Im calling you out iecerint. explain the reads, the process of getting there, and why you have not tried to steer a single vote there.

The reads list is exactly in order. So, even though you and chkflp are toward the scumside, you are not in my top 4 scum. I think that I have only commented on my strongest scum reads in-thread (and a handful of town ones).

I am surprised that you focused on yourself and chkflp rather than Logicalicalist, since he is ranked more toward the extreme side, and he is someone I do not remember mentioning at all.

In terms of why you seem vaguely scummy to me -- I remember getting a kind of negative feeling from chkflp's posts sometime in maybe the 30s. I think I remember someone else commenting that maybe they are getting a negative vibe from the posts because of the scowling avatar he had at the time. I noticed that because I had the same sense. I don't remember who made that comment. Chkflp has since changed his avatar.

In terms of Vecna, your posts have given me the impression that you do not really care to solve the game. That is the main thing that I generally ask when trying to ascertain alignment. But there's a lot of apathetic players in this game, so it's not something that's been as useful for differentiating players this game.

[Iecerint]

yeah I still don't get Iecerint's later posts, especially the lead rist

What specifically are you talking about?

your posts with a 4 digit number

I can get that you might have vague feelings that are hard to articulate. I have a harder time understanding that you would specifically say that the read list bothered you without being able to elaborate.

[Iecerint]

I mostly agree with your townreads in the lead rist (Elsa is not towny though!), I'm not sure why you didn't think Galron was null-townie or why your read on Vecna changed. Also you putting logical, the town spearhead, as scummy is pretty much a scumclaim.

Galron is a slot in the game that has done nothing all game. (That's Pine, right?) So, I do not have a read on a slot that has done nothing.

My read on Vecna has not particularly changed during the game. (I actually just noticed that I voted Vecna really early in the game, which I had forgotten completely about, in an effort to try to understand what made you think this. Which. I guess Vecna had forgotten about it, too?) Why do you think my read changed?

Logical is doing something very similar to A50. He posts a lot of theoretical content that is "helpful" but not tailored to finding scum in the game we are playing. This is the type of play that scum players who normally contribute via outguessing the mod, wagon analysis, and the like end up engaging with the game when they are scum -- they do the same kind of thing, but the same behavior is isolated from the task of finding scum.

[Iecerint]

Galron's content that does exist seems fine, reading it in iso. He doesn't say a lot.

I can understand a person being puzzled by my Alchemist vote, because I was personally conflicted about it.

[Iecerint]

VOTE: Lavender

[Iecerint]

I am working all during the day, but will check in at noon to claim if need be.

Lavender is not my first or second choice for the day, but I think there is a reasonable chance they flip scum. I think they have different play in their completed town game that supports this. For example, in the last Baker game, instead of complaining that people are asking them to play the game, they still do say they do not know how to play and ask questions about what is happening, and the questions are germane to understanding the motivations for people's behavior.

Pedit: The 11.5th hour wagon on me is truly bizarre. Lavender's wagon being the specific "other" wagon is also a little bit weird tbh for this logic. I do think they might be scum, but I think it was A50/Alch/Gobbledy for the last week or so, right? So I would not expect a shift totally away from 3 non-scum (in the event of Alch!3p) and then to me and Lavender. I guess it's possible if they over-panicked. (I have not reviewed the chronology to confirm this, but that's my recollection.)

[Iecerint]

Noon = 3 hours from now (PST)

[Iecerint]

I admit to not being familiar with Lavender. I asked her for a scum game because I wanted to know if this is par for the course, but she claims not to have had any. This should reassure me about her being town if this is just her style, but it doesn't: we have no body of work to compare her scum game to.

I read for her meta at the start of the day when I thought she was scum and wanted to rule-out playstyle.

Here's her iso in a previous Baker game. You can see that she has a similar style, but her stance is much more confident, less paranoid, more curious about the game, asking questions wanting to understand what is going on. For example, in this game, she accuses everyone of persecuting her for being a newb player, and in that game, she asks players what various words mean and asks why they said various things.

Here's her iso in yet another other Baker game. You can see the same pattern in this game.

I would not expert her to become more paranoid in her third Baker game for no reason. If there IS an extraneous circumstance for town!Lavender to change in this way, I would expect the player in the other two games to bring it directly into the thread (e.g., it might be something like, "Why do you persecute me when it's just that I am so busy! You must be scum!").

[Iecerint]

Lavender is definitely scum. More votes.

[Iecerint]

I am working all the rest of the evening, so seeing that people are taking Lavender seriously, I will claim now. I will try to peak into the thread, but it is unlikely I will be able to check the thread until 5 PM PST.

CLAIM: My role is called "Kung Fu Hillbilly." Mechanics-wise, I am a Ninja Cop. I target a player and learn if they are Hillbilly vs Redneck, and my action can't be tracked. My flavor is that I am "Diemon Dave" and it talks about my time on Jerry Springer.

I infer from my role that town probably has a tracker. Town does not have a ninja cop, a tracker, and a jailkeeper. Lavender is the scum jailkeeper. Eliminate Lavender.

[Iecerint]

I'm just messing with you, I'm more annoyed Iecrint thought I was ABR

You said "I'm still here <3" after I noted that ABR had replaced out, which made me think you were saying that you-ABR were playing on an alt and intentionally using a different playstyle.

I didn't remember seeing you-as-kuribo in the sign-out thread, so I did not have context for anyone else "still" being around.

[Iecerint]

I am pretty puzzled at people being conflicted about eliminating me vs Lavender. I feel like I'm playing my standard game, and people usually read me as obvTown. I know the site meta has probably drifted in the past few years, but.

FWIW, I remember feeling like I had PR-slipped when I got upset with A50 for his vague statements about PRs. I realized that I was probably unduly sensitive to it because of being a PR. I didn't explain my feelings at the time because I didn't want to add insult to injury.

Pedit k

[Iecerint]

I like "behead" but could be because I'm French.

That's gr8.

[Iecerint]

If you get the chance, who would you expect to read you better specifically?

I think I'm pretty easy to read? Usually I am townread by most people, especially on D1-D2. Which kinda happened most of this game, too, until the last 36 hours or so.

Of the players here I've played with DGB a lot. I've also played some games with kuribo and chkflp.

Having thought about it a little, I think Fate stands out as someone who usually townreads me accurately and reliably. Dunno why it occurs to me right now.

[Iecerint]

Iec I want your reads before the day ends or the hammer drops

The only change in my reads relative to my readlist post is that TemporalLich has been really dissonant at the end of the day. The rationale for his thoughts are unclear.

I agree that Lavender's response to DGB's thing lowers the probability that she is scum. But. It's higher than 0%. So. <_<

I encourage players who think I am scum to read my iso.

[Iecerint]

I'm not convinced Iec is scum, but I'm not willing to end the day on no lynch either

So behead Lavender.

[Iecerint]

I'm not convinced Iec is scum, but I'm not willing to end the day on no lynch either

I was, FWIW.

You were which?