Open 780: Chromavalon - GAME OVER

[Hiraki]

ego

[Hiraki]

Me but I am also egoposting for myself. When you hit threads that you've posted in, the URL has the word ego in it. It is a common thing around here.

[Hiraki]

Really refers to the latin terminology of I in the form of ego, I presume.

[Hiraki]

We can give the real Merlins such as myself deep cover, and the mafia will never know who is the true Merlin!

This is townposting but it is also dumbposting.

Since Mafia wins if they figure out the Merlin’s colours out best bet here is to all give a Lock scum read.
As if your were or if you are Merlin.

And if everyone picks someone different, then the game is already over, no?

Ah, okay. My next PageTop will be an egopost then.

Well...no...you already posted in here.

[Hiraki]

The only reason I'm not hammering right now is that I want more reads FYI. TSE doesn't even seem to care about the votes on him.

[Hiraki]

kerset are we VIBIN this game?

[Hiraki]

similar feelings/reads

[Hiraki]

Tempted to lynch TSE just for that comment from Hiraki

for not rushing the day? okay

I like the anime guys for scum team

because i don't want to end d1 on page 5

okkkkkaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy

TSE doesn't even seem to care about the votes on him.

still true FYI

[Hiraki]

how is it paranoid?!? im saying that i think he's scummy and i have no problem hammering him right now but i would rather the day continue. TSE literally has no redeeming actions right now, my vote will be on him by the end of the day. what's the harm with trying to get reads? there's only

one

thing i can think of and i'd love to have that argument because i think it is wrong if not even 1000000% more helpful to town rather than scum for ending the day early

[Hiraki]

saying okayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy is being mad?

also if you don't say anything, then yes i am going to assume that you are following the logic of other people because you have nothing new to add to the conversation. why would i assume that you have some other reason to think im scum? i'm not a mindreader over here

[Hiraki]

It sounds like you're POed about it, yeah.

"okaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay" is now an expression of being pissed off and not confused?? these are some of the weirdest arguments i've had on this site lol

galron - why do you also keep voting me when your vote has been on me the entire time other than the brief stint with TSE?

[Hiraki]

It sounds like you're POed about it, yeah.

"okaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay" is now an expression of being pissed off and not confused?? these are some of the weirdest arguments i've had on this site lol

galron - why do you also keep voting me when your vote has been on me the entire time other than the brief stint with TSE?

How dare you accuse me of voting TSE!

i didn't check, you're correct - i just thought the wagon formed that way

how dare you not answer my question?

[Hiraki]

midari - give reads on TSE and myself ASAP, tyvm

[Hiraki]

SirCakez - do you need me to link 50+ youtube videos showing "okaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay" means literally anything but being pissed off? Or is that all you've got so far for a case?

[Hiraki]

and I also SR you for a lack of scumhunting other than TSE, who is the leading wagon

And you? What have you done? Lead on me for the okaaaaaaaaaay until now where it becomes "the response was bad"?

What have you really done in this thread? I've gotten to make sure that at least everyone is talking about what is going on. Don't try and insinuate that I've done nothing in this game when you have done nothing yourself.

Hiraki also had a

really

weird in-thread response to the TSE wagon that reads really weird either way

And guess what? By not hammering there, something that I think a relatively "old" Hiraki would have done, my scumpool would have been blank with a flip. However, we are still not nearly enough for a day 1 informed vote. Originally, when I was writing this, I was going to establish who I think is scummy but after I re-read the game

again

- I don't even have a solid TR anymore (EXCEPT KERSET we are still VIBIN and Manatee). Here's the game in a nutshell.

Galron

is playing psuedo-merlin over there on me all day until, which I called him out for doing, he switched to TSE - something that he said he would not do but then did anyway.

Five Candles

- I've spoken about this earlier and in this

10

page game that has dwindled for almost a week now comes into the thread for page tops. I will admit that the slot has improved from just talking about spec (unlike TSE) but I don't know how setup spec really helps with finding scum still.

TSE

- we've all spoken at length about this and I really really want to hammer here

but

I have zero confidence in many of the people on the wagon anymore (Five Candles and Manatee are the exceptions here). Should I listen to my head or to the outside voices? For the moment, I'm willing to stay where I am without voting.

SirCakez

- won't get over the fact that literally everyone in the world says "okaaaaay" as a phrase of "wtf are you doing" until now when he started to realize that no one was going for that but apparently no one is noticing that just slid by either. If there's anyone who

really

deserves pressure right now, it's that slot and I would

love

to hear anything to contrary, especially considering the below.

Pink Ball

- thinks I'm scummy but unvotes on an L-2? I haven't missed anything here.

enomis

- ????????????????????????????????????????????

Midari Ikishima

- Something literally

no one

has brought up -

With that, scum can’t win. At least not by our second wincon.

“Our second wincon?”

Only scum have two.

Yeah I read this as a scum claim.

TSE - Yeah I'm not interested in lynching. Not feeling Hiraki either and feel both of these wagons are quite not good I think.

which - guess who conveniently ignores this and then pins me for not scumhunting when he's done squat himself again - 7 posts later?

and I also SR you for a lack of scumhunting other than TSE, who is the leading wagon

oopsie

I generally find Manatee and Kerset townie. Kerset I have explained, Manatee I have not but it's not hard to at least see Manatee has from the very beginning been trying to engage the game. I think he's wrong but I at least can see where he's putting the cords together even though they don't make sense at the end (not something that I can argue against nor anything I want to pursue as a conversation). I am now officially annoyed (FYI SirCakez - I didn't need to use the word okaaaaaaay for you to understand that) at this game because it is a firm standstill with no one knowing what to do except TSE go flip flip burrrrrrrrrrr. I, again, have no problem hammering but I am not hammering right now when we do not have enough to follow-up on for Day 2 by a long stretch. It's Page 10 not Page 25.

[Hiraki]

Why are you so stuck up on the okay thing? I've already said I SR you for other things and you keep coming back to it.

Ah yes, the elusive "other things" that I have talked about because you have identified them

[Hiraki]

I want to do one more tango

[Hiraki]

Why are you so stuck up on the okay thing? I've already said I SR you for other things and you keep coming back to it.

Ah yes, the elusive "other things" that I have talked about because you have identified them

I have...

Feel free to quote it

[Hiraki]

Got it, so sircakez's reasoning is okaaaaaay and made up bullshit - good to know. Mobile posting otherwise I'd go into it but I really also don't think I need to

[Hiraki]

I don't see how saying the TSE wagon sucks construes a defense of him.

Let's look at the flip side - what sucked about the TSE wagon that didn't suck about the Hiraki wagon?

Currently, the TSE wagon is -

PenguinPower(49), enomis(9), Five Candles(43), Galron(12), ManateeDude(18) and TSE (if this is wrong, it's 12 here and I don't think the change will make a difference)

The Hiraki wagon was -

Hiraki(4) ~ Galron(8), Pink Ball(17), TrueSoulEnergy(18), ManateeDude(10)

So if we dive even deeper, the only two outliers on the TSE wagon are PP, enomis & Five Candles. So what was actually bad about the TSE wagon again? Enomis?

[Hiraki]

Spoiler: SirCakez quoting himself in 285

Tempted to lynch TSE just for that comment from Hiraki

for not rushing the day? okay

I like the anime guys for scum team

because i don't want to end d1 on page 5

okkkkkaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy

TSE doesn't even seem to care about the votes on him.

still true FYI

Why are you assuming that's what I want to lynch you for? This seems like scum mad for caught for the wrong reasons.

where was all the energy we had in signups smh why dont we discuss setup mechanics to move out of this limbo.

LAMIST

I like the anime guys for scum team

Reaching.

on page 5?

he's way too defensive about pushes on him

and I also SR you for a lack of scumhunting other than TSE, who is the leading wagon

I've responded to all of these points and even PP called you out on the defensiveness one. Giving vague reasons that no one can follow is not helping you figure out what my alignment is (something that I have been suspecting that you are not trying to do with your posts) and is certainly not convincing anyone else to join. Even though I agree with Manatee, as I am about to do so again, I at least understand where he's coming from.

The only reason I'm not hammering right now is that I want more reads FYI. TSE doesn't even seem to care about the votes on him.

does this not look really weird in the context of scum!TSE

Why do you keep bringing this up? I already said why I said it. I thought he was scum then and I wanted to hammer but I also wanted to let the game breathe a little. What if he flips town (unlikely now but in the context of that post)? What are we supposed to do D2 with a 4 page D1? I've experienced it before - it's not pretty. Can you explain how that is unreasonable or are you going to continue to label it as

weird

and pop it up every once in awhile?

I generally agree with 300 to 302. I need to think about that more. It conflicts with my current read of the game but hopefully that is the missing piece of the puzzle that I'm ignoring.

At the end, yes. But, it was the only major counterwagon prior. And, TSE had strong defenders in you and Midari, with Midari contradicting themselves and you not have a good defense.

I'd also like to add that SirCakez's post is

completely

absurd when you piece together that SirCakez didn't even realize he was voting someone else other than me at the time.

Cakez any particular reason you're still voting midari

I thought I was on Hiraki
VOTE: Hiraki

Mobile posting otherwise I'd go into it but I really also don't think I need to

I got my mojo(jojo) back in this game baby

[Hiraki]

for hiraki I think their avoidance of the TSE wagon and stating he wanted more time to develop reads as his excuse for not hammering,, only to then argue with the scumreads on him without posting very much else in terms of substantial content.. all of it accumulates in a way that reads really scummy to me

FYI you currently have not, at this point in the game, talked about FiveCandles, Kerset, or enomis. thanks for bringing this up

again

i want credit for 331 PLEASE

huh. that is certainly a weird progression

slightly annoying how

I

also brought this up but noooooooo hiraki did not hammer the same person i thought was scum earlier

My point still stands that he was avoiding the TSE wagon.

Though on retrospection, you did the same as her sans calling out the scum claim.

yeah hence why I still think SirCakez pushing Midari is questionable

ding ding ding

SirCakez is town from tone, despite him pushing the counterwagon.

weird

Stop implying that merlins wants or not.

why?

[Hiraki]

okay - let's start here

Vote: SirCakez

[Hiraki]

Sheeping Hiraki.

VOTE: cakez

Look - I'm not complaining but ???????

this game is so weird

[Hiraki]

It would be less boring if people would start discussing things. Midari being absent and not really responding to the suspicions on her is not helping. I'm more than fine lynching there but Galron is being scummy rn and I'd like him to explain.

Explain what, cake man? That I've been sending signals to Hiraki to vote?

You've been voting me...to get me to vote?

[Hiraki]

Other than Hiraki's rant. If you look at that, he pretty much nailed the game dynamic at the time.

If I do it again, I will unvote and not be voting for quite awhile again. I only trust Kerset at this point.

[Hiraki]

I also want to add that I prefer Cakez over Midari because Cakezscum confirms Midari while Midariscum doesn't confirm Cakescum. That really only plays a factor in the order of lynches of which I think the game ends - something that I'm not entirely sure of either but getting closer and closer to doing so.

I also still do not understand how you vote someone for not voting to L-2 even though you "mind meld" with them but at least it makes sense given the late day TSE vote.

[Hiraki]

Looking at the VCs,

VOTE: Hiraki

#quicklynchMidari is very briefly delayed to wait and see if Titus managed to townspew her slot.

If not, #quicklynchTitus will resume at full force.

Interesting and just how would I do that considering you look like a busser on TSE's wagon.

Who do you think was the busser otherwise? TSE self-hammered meaning a busser was likely present.

you couldn't go two posts before contradicting yourself

my problem with joining on galron atm is that sircakez is on the wagon

Wouldn't that be funny, if it would turn out that scum just bused together after they failed to counter on hiraki?

Why does Manatee start the Galron wagon then? Nice coincidence but I don't think it's real.

[Hiraki]

you couldn't go two posts before contradicting yourself

my problem with joining on galron atm is that sircakez is on the wagon

Not a contradiction. There are multiple scum alive. Are you curious as to my thought processes at all?

no, not really

I also want to add that I prefer Cakez over Midari because Cakezscum confirms Midari while Midariscum doesn't confirm Cakescum.

Can you elaborate here? Does either town confirm the other as town?

no but it changes my order of lynch preference

[Hiraki]

I had trouble joining Galron due to Cakez's inclusion. I can do this one.

VOTE: Titus

Mod Note: I changed this to a vote tag for the Vote Counter bot; please use vote tags.

[Hiraki]

No distractions today. This is 2/3.

Vote: Galron

[Hiraki]

VOTE: Battle Mage

I don’t buy the hammer explanation or your claim. If that’s part of your town game it needs to not be. You denied a lot of conversation yesterday.

I'd like to add onto this that it is absolutely detrimental to a town win to claim Merlin if you are town because now scum have one of the Merlins. It just feels like a bait to get someone to CC and have all of the cards on the table which is the absolute opposite of the point of this game.

P.S. I remembered to use vote tags this time!

SirCakez tomorrow. As per usual, D1 Hiraki was on point.

I also want to add that I prefer Cakez over Midari because Cakezscum confirms Midari while Midariscum doesn't confirm Cakescum. That really only plays a factor in the order of lynches of which I think the game ends - something that I'm not entirely sure of either but getting closer and closer to doing so.

In hindsight, kicking myself super hard for not going farther here.

[Hiraki]

I'd like to add onto this that it is absolutely detrimental to a town win to claim Merlin if you are town because now scum have one of the Merlins. It just feels like a bait to get someone to CC and have all of the cards on the table which is the absolute opposite of the point of this game.

One more thought - it is almost optimal to end the game here on a Merlin claim if you are a Merlin because you've just made the odds smaller for scum to get it right. It reeks of a shitty bait out for someone to "CC" you which will never ever happen.

[Hiraki]

For me to vote Five Candles, I have to think really hard past SirCakez's atrocious D1 gameplay which I do not really want to do.

[Hiraki]

you're not a merlin LOL

[Hiraki]

VOTE: Sir Cakez

[Hiraki]

where you also call Galron out??

[Hiraki]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA but saying "yeah this is bad" without saying anything is "mixing" it in?

My REACTION seals it for you? BRUH, i'm CCing you

[Hiraki]

you're CCing as the enomis/BM merlin?

SIR CAKEZ DIDN'T EVEN READ THE MERLIN PMS HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Hiraki]

Cakez, you should just hammer this. The above is an admittance that he didn't understand the setup LOL

[Hiraki]

Sorry

5C

you should just hammer this. I'm a little giddy at how easy this W is after that many town lynches in a row.

[Hiraki]

I'm talking about how he thought CC meant that I am CCing his fabricated Merlin claim rather than me saying that I am a Merlin and he is not part of the Merlin group - which then led to him admitting that he didn't know Merlins knew who each other were.

[Hiraki]

Hiraki, point out why you think Cakez is lying here.

This game has been going on for almost 4 weeks, you had to read the rules to find a special code to confirm, and now Cakez realizes that he has Merlin buddies that are in his role PM? It is literally the second line in the rules. It is a classic scumclaim mess up.

I'm almost tempted not to talk about the game at this point because I would be feeding Cakez and the scumteam information. If you need more, I can give it but I'd rather not. I already think you've said enough with the Galron/BM stuff.

[Hiraki]

I think he's scumclaiming without actually saying it and wants to try his luck on the guessing game rather than wait for you to figure it out. I really don't see how you interpret it otherwise.

[Hiraki]

I have no want to talk about it but I'm glad that you're openly admitting that you want me to do that?

[Hiraki]

Then why'd you even claim Merlin in the first place? If you aren't gonna use it to defend yourself then you just gave scum free info.

No - I gave you as little information as necessary. You decided to claim your "target" in order to defend yourself. This is probably due to what you actually thought was important for a Merlin claim but you gave out waaay too much information if you were the real one. I then said, you're not a Merlin, which I know because you are not in my role PM, and that's all I need to say. You then fumbled your fakeclaim by insinuating that I was CCing your Merlin claim because you did not read the role PMs properly.

I'm not using my claim to defend myself, correct, I am using it to show how utterly obvious it is that you are scum.

Here's a fun fact - when did I vote BM? The guy who has been cautious with his vote for the entire game voted BM right

after

he claimed Merlin and then dove straight into Merlin-claiming theory. It is not a coincidence. That's about as much as I'd like to go into my role before the post-game.

[Hiraki]

That doesn't make any sense. As soon as 5C didn't hammer me from your POV I should be confirmed scum so your CC was pointless.

Are you really saying that in a LYLO situation, I should not call you out on your claim - even though it is 100% false - knowing at the same time that 5C is not a Merlin and therefore cannot assess the veracity of your claim unless I step in? That makes no sense.

And 5C hasn't talked about it at all either so it didn't do anything to help convince them.

Really?????

[Hiraki]

5C wouldn't need the other Merlin identities if he was scum.

[Hiraki]

If scum!Cakez realises his grave CC error, does he really come up with the "I didn't realise I was supposed to know my other Merlins" in like 30 seconds? I'm actually reconsidering.

After reading the role PM on page 1? Yes?

[Hiraki]

I will be pretty annoyed if you vote for me considering that SirCakez scumclaimed. I don't need nor want to ask questions - I'm still not sure why this is a debate in your head.

[Hiraki]

My primary question to Hiraki is why has he spent the entirety of today trying to rush a hammer on me and shut down discussion rather than allow 5C to actually think things through

I haven't rushed anything? You're the one who started the day asking for it to be done before you need to replace out? I just said I'd be annoyed - that's not rushing.

Another question I have is why do I kill PP instead of 5C here?

PP suspected both of us. I don't know why you keep reading his post as if it clears you for some reason.

And the last thing is why did he claim Merlin? Because all of his explanations for it have been nonsensical.

Already explained this but okay, sure, let's just throw in a "you don't make sense!"

Consider that Hiraki opened day 3 voting for Galron instead of BM.

And?

The only reason I'm not hammering right now is that I want more reads FYI. TSE doesn't even seem to care about the votes on him.

This also looks bad in light of TSE scumflip. Why even make this post? Seems like delaying in hopes of a wagon shift.
And I could also get into his ridiculous overreaction to my push on him d1.

Been over this 100 times.

Sheeping Hiraki.

VOTE: cakez

ehhhh…

alright plan B it is:

UNVOTE: VOTE: Midari

And whatever the hell this was

Saying "whatever the hell this was" is not only not informative, it just shows that you're throwing darts on the board hoping that they'll stick.

[Hiraki]

Consider that Hiraki opened day 3 voting for Galron instead of BM.

In fact, reading this more and more makes me think that this is SirCakez trying to dig deeper to figure out which Merlin I am. This is why I do not want to answer any questions. Not because I don't want to pin down SirCakez but that there's still a second layer of the game once SirCakez gets lynched.

[Hiraki]

hey buddy, what did you do two posts later?

[Hiraki]

answer -

VOTE: battle mage
adios!

[Hiraki]

Like i've stated multiple times, what was the last post that BM made before i voted BM

answer

As we lose if I die today anyway, and I figure scum will have worked it out anyway, I'm a Merlin and had Thesoulenergy as confirmed scum (who was lynched before I even got here). I've been trying to avoid saying too much to give away who the other Merlins (or indeed myself) were, and likewise, they haven't given much away either which is why we are in a pretty shitty spot in terms of actually lynching scum.

BONUS - who does BM vote before he dies

I'm gonna go with VOTE: SirCakez as I'm more confident on that one.

also for avoiding questions, i've answered a lot of them but you had a problem with

one

answer that just shows how your throwing those darts. the one question that i had a serious problem with to write two posts about it? let's push that under the rug???

[Hiraki]

yes, just quote the post and then call it bad...that sounds like something to me...can't put my finger on it though

[Hiraki]

BM was tunneled on me the whole time he was here because I was pushing him. Who else would he have voted?:

Didn't know you had to vote the person who was pushing you? This just sounds more planned when you phrase it this way.

I'd consider all of these handwaving except for the PP answer

And the PP answer just flat out ignored PP's last post

No? How did I flat out ignore it? He is saying that the logic behind it being me is that I would have bussed BM over you because I voted him. What did you do two posts later? You hammered him. His entire point is that scum is bussing. Flat out ignoring it would be doing literally anything other than what I did.

[Hiraki]

No, I am not ignoring it. I'm explaining why he said that and how you did exactly what he accused me of doing.

[Hiraki]

He's also lying for most of the last two pages but I guess the AtE is drawing you in??? Have you been reading??

[Hiraki]

Consider that Hiraki opened day 3 voting for Galron instead of BM.

In fact, reading this more and more makes me think that this is SirCakez trying to dig deeper to figure out which Merlin I am. This is why I do not want to answer any questions. Not because I don't want to pin down SirCakez but that there's still a second layer of the game once SirCakez gets lynched.

He also casually dodged this without ever expanding on his question but yeah, I guess that's

handwaving

or I guess as you're now calling it

AtE

i do not get how this is a struggle at the moment, he didn't even know that Merlins knew who each other were. that is not something that a Merlin - who has to read his role PM to find out that they confirm by reading the rules which say that information already BEFORE they can confirm into the game - forgets

p-edit, thank you

I actually have been

incorrect

in my explanations. The fact that Merlins know each other is AFTER the confirmation code (see post 1) so missing it is actually MORE probable for scum that didn't care to read the rules.

[Hiraki]

I would really love to quote the above to make it pinpoint obvious how he just missed it when trying to formulate his fakeclaim here but that is against site rules, AFAIK (moderator communication rule). If it's not, I would be more than willing to go into the nitty gritty details but I will do it below in text.

In order for Cakez to

forget

that he has Merlin buddies he has to -

1) Read his role PM, skip the line that says "here are your Merlin buddies" but read the lines before AND after because he knows that BM is scum and that he has to confirm using something other than "/confirm" - again this is public knowledge on the role PMs, please take a look for yourself.
2) In order to get the confirmation code, Cakez is supposed to read the rules and get to confirm. He reads in these rules at the very minimum the first four rules - none of which confirm that Merlins know who each other are. This is AFTER the confirmation code but again, why read the rules if you're not a Merlin? Scum just needs to make sure they need to win and figure out who the Merlins are.
3) In order for Cakez to confirm, he then has to go back into that same role PM, not read it and write down the confirmation word to confirm. I can answer your question for you 5C that I did not need to write down my Merlin buddies, just the confirmation word. Sorry if that was going to be important somehow.

BONUS: Upon review of the SCUM PMs, these have zero indication that the Merlins know each other. In fact, the wording

almost

makes it sound like they don't know each other (read the line Avalon line) and only know who their matching target is (which is EXACTLY what SirCakez claimed).

[Hiraki]

And is that so illogical? To be annoyed after forgetting something so crucial?

[Hiraki]

I get how you could forget all of this as mafia. I do not even see a sliver of an argument that you forget any of this as a Merlin. The answer is that Merlin doesn't forget that because it's in his role PM. Mafia doesn't need to read the role PM to fakeclaim. This is why he's frustrated.

[Hiraki]

Because you're trying to figure out who I have as my Merlin target?

[Hiraki]

This is why I don't want to speak anymore in this game. I am giving out information that I shouldn't need to. I also don't like how SirCakez drops arguments just because I answered them correctly. He had a whole list of items and then when I answer them, they just disappear because the darts didn't stick to the board.

[Hiraki]

If you're trying to insinuate I'm scummy for voting Galron, do you remember who you voted D3? The literal next post?

[Hiraki]

Ok - so what does that have to do with me?

[Hiraki]

If anything, you're validating that my SR was in-line with yours...which is why it's scummy?

[Hiraki]

Just curious, who was shocking Merlin?