Mini Normal 2152 | JDM | Endgame

[maxwell]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: beeboy

Yeah you know what I'm not gonna let that bullshit misrepresentation slide (for reference, less than 24 hours had passed since that post where he accuses me of "not following up") and I've tried to address people.

[Nash]

Hey, I'll catch up soon. No Eliminate is a solid alternative if scum wins at parity.

[Elsa Jay]

Not to agree with Spider-Man but if there's a no exe it becomes a 5-2 with the knowledge scum used to kill someone night one.

It also garuntees the PRs get 2 nights to act instead of just 1 which puts is in instant MyLo

[maxwell]

I don't think there's any guarantee of an investigative role in the setup, I'd prefer to play day 1 as normal and sentence someone. Setups on this site aren't designed around the idea of no elimination on day 1 and wouldf imagine this was designed around preserving that meta.

[Elsa Jay]

So your saying follow meta, kill me, watch PR get NKed, then exe the second wrong person and lose?

[Nash]

I don't think there's any guarantee of an investigative role in the setup, I'd prefer to play day 1 as normal and sentence someone. Setups on this site aren't designed around the idea of no elimination on day 1 and wouldf imagine this was designed around preserving that meta.

It's beneficial even if there are no investigative roles (unlikely).

[Nash]

So your saying follow meta, kill me, watch PR get NKed, then exe the second wrong person and lose?

Do we have a PR claim?

[Nash]

Forgot to UNVOTE:

[maxwell]

So your saying follow meta, kill me, watch PR get NKed, then exe the second wrong person and lose?

I am not in favor of eliminating you, and never have been.

I don't think there's any guarantee of an investigative role in the setup, I'd prefer to play day 1 as normal and sentence someone. Setups on this site aren't designed around the idea of no elimination on day 1 and wouldf imagine this was designed around preserving that meta.

It's beneficial even if there are no investigative roles (unlikely).

What gives you that confidence? You've been registered on this site for a month. I am telling you, point blank, it's entirely possible there's no investigative role and there's a power role that can either be an extra kill or prevent a kill. I've seen plenty of Normal queue games and I know that's likely the case.

[Battle Mage]

I found your issue, you didn't read it.

Every single read is non committal to some degree, the only town degree is on Raya so he is leaving himself open to push every other player.
The questions at the bottom of the post aren't followed up on.
The question at the bottom aren't related to the blurb about the player a large portion of the time.

It's the definition of a high effort easy to make scum post. Idk I think it's impossible to read that post and think its a town post with some kind of purpose. Town would be aware they scum read everyone but one player and make some note on it, town would follow up on questions, town questions would line up with their thoughts. None of that is happening.

Scum team is Maxwell and Elsa, easy game.

Counterpoint: Perhaps your issue is you read it in a vacuum. It's certainly possible he could do it as scum, but generally in my (decade plus of) mafia experience, I see this from town more than scum (regardless of the quality which you question). It looks a bit like you're picking on him because he has opened himself up - after all, it's not as if you've done those good pro-town things you yourself cite. I'm not suggesting you're doing so intentionally - you could be understandably trying to read something into a big post to get the game moving, as either alignment.

However, trying to derail the Elsa-elimination whilst also shading him as scum....is not a good look. I wouldn't be shocked to see a Beeboy-Elsa scumteam.

To be clear, I'm not remotely interested in exiling maxwell, given we are eliminating Elsa-scum today. I will read up and re-evaluate in full on Day 2 unless I get NKed.

[Battle Mage]

It's ok when Maxwell flips scum we can solve the game through mechanics like all good mafia games B)

in other words, mislynch maxwell today, and then find some mechanical excuse not to lynch your second suspect Elsa tomorrow?

[Battle Mage]

Hey, I'll catch up soon. No Eliminate is a solid alternative if scum wins at parity.

Not to agree with Spider-Man but if there's a no exe it becomes a 5-2 with the knowledge scum used to kill someone night one.

It also garuntees the PRs get 2 nights to act instead of just 1 which puts is in instant MyLo

We are not No-eliminating today, gimme a break!

[dsjstr]

VOTE: Raya

Very passive and middle of the road, also has disappeared.

I'm against not hammering D1

[dsjstr]

Before you answer I'm going to let you know this is a reaction test.

[Nash]

I don't think there's any guarantee of an investigative role in the setup, I'd prefer to play day 1 as normal and sentence someone. Setups on this site aren't designed around the idea of no elimination on day 1 and wouldf imagine this was designed around preserving that meta.

It's beneficial even if there are no investigative roles (unlikely).

What gives you that confidence? You've been registered on this site for a month. I am telling you, point blank, it's entirely possible there's no investigative role and there's a power role that can either be an extra kill or prevent a kill. I've seen plenty of Normal queue games and I know that's likely the case.

That I didn't consider,..
Absolutely agree with your point on preserving said meta...
It does NOT make sense for a setup to benefit NEing D1.,.,

@beeboy, if Elsa's absence is justified, why put him in your solve?
@Elsa, what did you mean by 179?
@BM, do you have any reads that aren't scum!Elsa?

124 puzzles me. Four out of the seven reads look like setting up mislynches to pursue in case one of them gained traction, and you know this.
VOTE: Raya36 while I try to understand 175, because beeboy had a valid read. Nothing against you.

[Nash]

Hello. Are we eliminating today?

Why must you have that cursed icon... Spider-Man has traumatized me.

Spoiler:

But seriously, why?

[Raya36]

Can you explain why because I don't find it as scummy as you do and her recent posts come across as genuine to me.

Genuineness can come from both sides though. Why do you think it comes here rather from town? I assume your change of opinion is based on 125 going by your 124?

Yes that's correct. I found her list of reasons to be valid and while it maybe be weak I get a sort of tonal gut read on her being town due to the genuinueity. The last point doesn't really come off as something scum would admit.

Hello. Are we eliminating today?

I'm just gonna put it out there that I'm not for eliminating elsa today. Not just for her not participating yet. Let her talk about AI stuff so we can determine if her excuses are likely true and she's town or if she's scum we can get a better read on her than just "not participating, must be scum". That said: I want participation Elsa!

[Raya36]

I'll come back and do more after work

[maxwell]

124 puzzles me. Four out of the seven reads look like setting up mislynches to pursue in case one of them gained traction, and you know this.

I already explained this, I didn't have solid reads because it was early and found more than a few people could plausibly be scum. I don't write people off as town until I feel I have good reason to. Am I going to have to repeat this over and over? God, this is annoying. At any rate, why do I need to set up 4 mislynches in an 8 player game?

[Nash]

124 puzzles me. Four out of the seven reads look like setting up mislynches to pursue in case one of them gained traction, and you know this.

I already explained this, I didn't have solid reads because it was early and found more than a few people could plausibly be scum. I don't write people off as town until I feel I have good reason to. Am I going to have to repeat this over and over? God, this is annoying. At any rate, why do I need to set up 4 mislynches in an 8 player game?

But that's not my point. Raya (as town) pushed a player for a similar reason in one of his most recent completed games, so I wonder how this is any different.

[Nash]

Hello. Are we eliminating today?

Why must you have that cursed icon... Spider-Man has traumatized me.

Spoiler:

But seriously, why?

Spoiler:

Sorry, I meant this in good faith and did not mean any offence, in case you really are traumatised by that pfp.

[Elsa Jay]

I mean it as in all the Spider-Man x Elsa shit on the internet.

I'm traumatized in the meme way not the serious way. Keep your icon bro.

[Battle Mage]

I don't think there's any guarantee of an investigative role in the setup, I'd prefer to play day 1 as normal and sentence someone. Setups on this site aren't designed around the idea of no elimination on day 1 and wouldf imagine this was designed around preserving that meta.

It's beneficial even if there are no investigative roles (unlikely).

What gives you that confidence? You've been registered on this site for a month. I am telling you, point blank, it's entirely possible there's no investigative role and there's a power role that can either be an extra kill or prevent a kill. I've seen plenty of Normal queue games and I know that's likely the case.

That I didn't consider,..
Absolutely agree with your point on preserving said meta...
It does NOT make sense for a setup to benefit NEing D1.,.,

@beeboy, if Elsa's absence is justified, why put him in your solve?
@Elsa, what did you mean by 179?
@BM, do you have any reads that aren't scum!Elsa?

124 puzzles me. Four out of the seven reads look like setting up mislynches to pursue in case one of them gained traction, and you know this.
VOTE: Raya36 while I try to understand 175, because beeboy had a valid read. Nothing against you.

There's probably like 2 scum. why would i bother trying to find the partner today when we havent even lynched the easy one?

[Battle Mage]

Can you explain why because I don't find it as scummy as you do and her recent posts come across as genuine to me.

Genuineness can come from both sides though. Why do you think it comes here rather from town? I assume your change of opinion is based on 125 going by your 124?

Yes that's correct. I found her list of reasons to be valid and while it maybe be weak I get a sort of tonal gut read on her being town due to the genuinueity. The last point doesn't really come off as something scum would admit.

Hello. Are we eliminating today?

I'm just gonna put it out there that I'm not for eliminating elsa today. Not just for her not participating yet. Let her talk about AI stuff so we can determine if her excuses are likely true and she's town or if she's scum we can get a better read on her than just "not participating, must be scum". That said: I want participation Elsa!

This is a disgusting misrepresentation of the fledgling Elsa-wagon. And, unrelated but it gives me the creeps when people limply imply lack of participation will eventually be alignment indicative as some sort of threat to get them engaged.

I don't care much for trying to solve the entire game on Day 1, and think that any change of focus away from eliminating Elsa would cause the town to unravel further. I won't be the catalyst for that.

[Battle Mage]

Sorry I'm a little late here folks.

Took a mental break from the site for 2 days.

Hope I'm still in this game, which I assume I am since in being voted.

Black: Apology for being late - not really necessary, but not meaningful in itself.
Red: Excuse for being late, referenced "from the site" to imply NAI here - more unnecessary explanation for absence, and a bit overdefensive (as if pre-occupied with the prospect of getting shade for this).
Green: "Hope I'm still in this game" - obvious he is still in the game, otherwise he wouldnt be posting. why say this? not real talk, just a 'tail between legs' performance.

I'm trying to find a place in this game

tbh

. I feel like this group doesn't need a comic relief so I'm not doing that, but...

Honestly

I'm looking at this 8p and realize 2 mis-word pendings and we lose.

So I'm thinking hard RN, but mainly I feel like following another's lead. So.

If you vote me for being an open follower be my guest,

but

I just think I'll get better results not mucking up this game with my usual style.

Micros are Weird.

Despite previous apology for not being here and relief(?) at not being cut, when you might expect next posts to be catching up and contributing, instead it's just excuses for struggling to engage. It's a short game, moving slowly - I don't buy for a second that Elsa-town would be incapable of making something happen here, or at least keeping up with the limited content on offer. With only 8 players, game may not go long - even a novice who frequently sheeps in larger games would conclude sheeping is a poor strategy here, especially with no good reason. 2 "honestly" scumtells, in bold above. It doesn't feel like Elsa wants to play here, and that his main objective is quite clearly survival, rather than trying to contribute to lynching scum. Classic lazy-scum. Other highlights:

Red: Over-defensive again. Why is Elsa-town so obsessively pre-occupied with trying to avoid getting votes? Quite clear from the way this is worded that Elsa feels like that being an "open" follower should buy him some towncred - as if being shameless about it makes it more excusable.

Blue: Definitely uncomfortable with the game, but why? Why would Elsa, who is an experienced and competent player, be so completely unable to engage with a game this straightforward? I could understand simply lurking, but by being honest, it seems like Elsa has played himself out of the hand. Being honest about being scummy isn't town indicative, especially when it's being used as an attempt to garner pity - it's scum indicative. This feels entirely like scum who isn't quite sure how to approach the game. Town-Elsa wouldn't be so inhibited and frankly, nervous.

Green: the very principle of following someone else, despite clearly having put some thought into the game, doesn't sit right. At best, it's anti-town behaviour, and not something I'd expect from Elsa-town. Looks to just be an excuse to ride someone's coattails and not pretend to scumhunt (which is undue effort for scum, and paramount MO for town).

Italics: Implies Elsa expects to reap benefits at some point later in the game. But how does Elsa know he will be alive later in the game?

Do you have any reads or thoughts Elsa?

Eh.

I think Beeboy jumped on the gone slot too soon, particularly as someone who didn't see my VLA message or status, and probably also knows I really like playing scum.

Might've been VLA but... Still feels weird to pick me out of the crowd.

"eh"?? - was Elsa really not expecting to answer any questions? This from Raya isn't particularly taxing, which is perhaps telling in itself. Only thought is OMGUS against Beeboy. Not a good justification - it's always good practice for town to pressure quiet people early in smaller games, because scum can feasibly see a route to victory through lurking. Again, the thrust of his post above is giving excuses for himself, rather than talking about Beeboy or anyone else. He prematurely asserts here, in his own defense, that he isn't scum because he would be more engaged as scum. Self-meta never great, especially when unprovoked, and I know this self-meta to be inaccurate, as I've played with Elsa-town and seen him much more engaged than this. And Elsa-town is a more sophisticated scumhunter than this lame effort. Also throws up the VLA defence again - even more unnecessary than last time - nobody would be lynching Elsa today because he was VLA for 2 days. Way too defensive.

Jester you still haven't found an icon for yourself? The white box makes me eanna glance over you.

non-game-related junk

If I was that easy I wouldn't have my title now would I?

But continue and realize after I die, not only do you not get associations, but you only get one mislynch here. Make it count.

this is Elsa's response to my original vote. Interesting that he again confidently asserts that there's only 1 mislynch, although this is not open setup - implies he has knowledge of number of scum.

I've split response into 2 parts, red and blue again:

Red: Claims he wouldn't be scum because it would be too easy, as if that is meant to convince me - presumably because he knows he's been very scummy here, or else is paranoid about his own scumminess. Either way, it's vindication of my suspicion, and makes me question why others haven't jumped on this.

Blue: Is that a threat? or a guilt-trip? No value in it either way, as there's no actual reason here to make me think he's town. Odd claim that with his lynch I'd get no associations - that's something I can't imagine town saying, because as town, do you really worry about associations!? It seems like quite a candid take that Elsa is intentionally not interacting properly here to avoid implicating their scumbuddy. The appeal to emotion here is an escalation of the previous over-defensive behaviour, Elsa has 1 or 2 votes at this point, with near unanimity (5/7) required to lynch - the defeatist vibe still seems like overkill to me.

To Raya: I'm not being vocal for multiple reasons I guess.

1 is that I

legit

forgot I signed up for this game and came in with my dress off, so to say. So I came in at a disadvantage.

2 is that I'm not 100% in my mind RN so I'm taking it slow to get back into things. I do wanna help, just... I'm working on it.

3 is... More I guess I don't have someone to bounce off of yet.

More excuses for not posting. Let's break them down!

1. The game is like 8 pages or something? Not sure what it was at this point. But it's hardly an insurmountable amount of content to get to grips with and catch up, especially given PRETTY MUCH NOTHING HAPPENED! The attempt to garner sympathy here is pretty transparent, and I'm surprised anyone bought it. Also, this reason is different to the earlier excuses for not posting (taking a 2 day break from the site). Use of word "legit" here, is in similar camp to the "honestly" tells as an old-school classic scumslip. Why would we assume you didn't "legit" forget you signed up to the game? Again, overly defensive.

2. I don't have much to say on this, but I would observe that Elsa has been perfectly able to post with reasonable frequency, and has responded when he is under pressure.

3. I'm not sure how Elsa expects to ever get anyone to "bounce off" with his attitude, particularly in the preceding post, of not liking it when people ask him easy questions. Nobody is buying this one - assume it's just here because 3 is a good number of points to have, and there weren't any more "legit" excuses.

I'm baffled at anyone suggesting Elsa looks town here. Baffled!

My vote ain't moving.

Well your attitude of only having 1 lynch target isn't very townie either now is it?

OMGUS against me now. Implies my suspicion of him is scum-indicative; unsubstantiated and untrue. It's tetchy, and obviously affected, but still not enough to wake Elsa from his slumber.

I was telling you an out of game opinion. I like it when people pick nice avis. Let's me see their personalities.

The first in a series of non-game-related junk, to boost the post count.

Well I made sure to use my previous nickname of you to show I recognized you.

Battle Mage not having an icon is a statement in itself. You having a white box? What's the symbolism?

non-game-related junk

That I'm still mad at you for that one time you abandoned a game Bambi signed up for when she was excited for it.

non-game-related junk

Hello. Are we eliminating today?

Why must you have that cursed icon... Spider-Man has traumatized me.

non-game-related junk

Considering you have me as the scum team beebee it's wrong sadly.

Quite clear that all Elsa cares about here is not being suspected himself. No attempt to engage beyond the "I'm not scum doe".

Not to agree with Spider-Man but if there's a no exe it becomes a 5-2 with the knowledge scum used to kill someone night one.

It also garuntees the PRs get 2 nights to act instead of just 1 which puts is in instant MyLo

Supporting (note, not leading) an anti-town push for a no-execution on Day 1. It's closed setup, day start. Very rare that No-execution is going to benefit town more than scum here. Given town may have protective role(s), this is not the right play, and Elsa is bright enough to know that.

So your saying follow meta, kill me, watch PR get NKed, then exe the second wrong person and lose?

as above, pushing pro-scum strategy, piggybacking off somebody else.

I mean it as in all the Spider-Man x Elsa shit on the internet.

I'm traumatized in the meme way not the serious way. Keep your icon bro.

Are you seriously suggesting you want to do naughty things with Spidey?

More non-game-related junk.

And that is literally all of Elsa's posts.