Mini Normal 2149 | Philosophers | Over


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Post Post #2000 (isolation #200) » Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:55 am

Post by Blair »

In post 1999, Truth wrote:Blair, if you look at the wiki pages for Miller and Mason, you will see what I mean under Play Advice:

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Miller
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mason

It does not look like you are supposed to claim mason straight away so I thought it would look suspicious, which is why I tried combining it with miller which it recommends to claim straight away in your opening post.
Two problems with that:

1. You'd have to already know Miller was a viable option in the first place to even CHECK the wiki page for Miller (I bring this up because you are playing the "Ignorant Newbie" card.

2. The VERY NEXT sentence on the wiki states that claiming Miller makes you more likely to be voted out or shot by a Vigilante.

You claimed that the entire reason you lied about being a Miller was to get yourself nightkilled, but then tacked a Miller claim onto it that made the nightkill extremely unlikely.

It makes more sense to me that you claimed Miller so you wouldn't be investigated, and tacked Mason onto it so you wouldn't be lynched.
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Post Post #2001 (isolation #201) » Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:56 am

Post by Blair »

*lied about being a Mason
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Post Post #2002 (isolation #202) » Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:01 am

Post by Blair »

In post 1997, Glitch wrote:
In post 1988, Glitch wrote:His VT claim makes sense to me because I can't imagine Truth having played the way he has all game and be scum that pulled this crazy mason fake claim just to last to the end. I'm open to cases on it but Idk. That + his relationship with popo just rule out a lot of my willingness to consider him scum.
Blair what are your thoughts on this? Truth is ridiculous but have a hard time seeing him as scum because of his relationship with popo. Do you bekievenhis miller mason claim or his relationship with po are AI?
"His relationship with Popo"? He was scumreading Popo but didn't help lynch him. How is that town indicative?

The Miller fake claim (we now know it was fake, that is an important data point) is objectively alignment indicative, yes. The only discernible motivation to lie about being a Miller is to avoid being investigated - something a Vanilla Townie would not be afraid of.

Also, I'm sorry, but I 100% do not buy that he signed up for this game, received a Vanilla Townie role, and then decided he was out of his depth and immediately (in his very first post!) lied about his role
to try to get himself nightkilled
. Way more likely that he just didn't want to get investigated.
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Post Post #2004 (isolation #203) » Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:35 am

Post by Blair »

Your story makes no sense.

"I joined this game, then got a VT role pm and decided I wanted to get nightkilled immediately, so I claimed Miller."

Either you're lying about your internal logic as town for... some reason... still... or you're lying about your internal logic as scum.
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Post Post #2015 (isolation #204) » Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:53 pm

Post by Blair »

Both Nauci and I have voted for you and then unvoted to avoid a quickhammer, and Glitch stated intent, so you should probably claim whether I want you to or not.

Personally, I'd prefer you only claim if you think it will change someone's reads or our understanding of the game state.
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Post Post #2019 (isolation #205) » Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:22 pm

Post by Blair »

Dunnstral, can you link me to NDMath "making things happen" in a town game? Big if true, because he's been under the radar in this game.
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Post Post #2023 (isolation #206) » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:22 pm

Post by Blair »

Nauci, can you serve up some spicy town reads?

I'm pretty much null or scumreading everyone, and that can't be right.
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Post Post #2033 (isolation #207) » Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:15 am

Post by Blair »

"Get nightkilled" and "Don't get lynched" are not mutually exclusive.

"Get nightkilled by fake claiming" and "Fake claim something that gets lynched or vig'd often" are actual contradictions, however.
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Post Post #2034 (isolation #208) » Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:17 am

Post by Blair »

In post 2031, Glitch wrote:
In post 45, Truth wrote:I never claimed to never lie, but I haven't lied this game yet regardless.
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Post Post #2035 (isolation #209) » Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:26 am

Post by Blair »

In post 2032, Glitch wrote:Which was it? Did you want to make this supposed noble sacrifice? Or were you making a wild move out of self-preservation?
This is a really problematic paragraph here.

Why?

Because, as I pointed out in , there wasn't actually a contradiction between "I want to be nightkilled" and "I don't want to be lynched."

At first I thought this was just one of many accidentally bad-faith arguments, but
the quoted paragraph here is actually evidence of you carefully, wilfully, deliberately stitching this misrepresentation together.


You went out of your way here to conflate "get nightkilled" > "noble sacrifice" and "not lynched" > "self preservation." It isn't difficult at all to understand how he wanted the Mafia to waste a night phase on him but did not want the town to waste a day phase on him. Whether or not we believe him is a separate matter, but you are deliberately gaslighting his position into a contradiction between "I want to live / I want to die" that doesn't actually exist in his post.

I think you know exactly what you did there and how misleading it would be.

VOTE: Glitch
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Post Post #2037 (isolation #210) » Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:45 am

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In post 2036, Glitch wrote:I honestly had not put 2&2 together on the non-contradiction there and was thinking of it more on a surface level.
Lies and blasphemy.

You intentionally suspended critical faculties to stitch this together:
In post 2032, Glitch wrote:The first two statements that I highlighted seem to indicate that your goal was to use get killed by Mafia because the town would be better of if you were one of the early NK's since you are a weaker player. However, the last statement I highlighted seems to indicate that your goal by making the claim was actually to keep yourself alive longer.

Which was it? Did you want to make this supposed noble sacrifice? Or were you making a wild move out of self-preservation?
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Post Post #2040 (isolation #211) » Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:56 am

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I don't know if I'm ready to go down that rabbit hole of psychoanalysis just yet.
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Post Post #2041 (isolation #212) » Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:58 am

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Like, yeah, you definitely have a point, and I really WANT to believe he was using masonry as a foil for real interactions with his scum buddies.

But I can totally see him just talking into a mirror on some Smeagol/Gollum stuff, too.
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Post Post #2047 (isolation #213) » Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:16 pm

Post by Blair »

I decided to take a trip back through Truth's ISO now that he claims he lied about being a Miller Mason because he wanted to avoid being lynched and attract a night kill, and I'm really struggling with this post in particular:
In post 325, Truth wrote:
In post 299, Glitch wrote:What's with the backpedaling? It seems like you claimed right off the bat and then realized it wasn't the greatest idea so you're going to leave it a little more open ended and open some other possibilities up. Why?
I was actually okay with being lynched so that I could be confirmed, and it would confirm my buddies as masons. But they suggested against this idea.
He was okay with being lynched? This doesn't line up with his later explanation.

Initially I thought this post would never come from scum:
In post 502, Truth wrote:Should we quickly lynch popopopopopopopopo and go into night? I don't we'll get a better suspect than this and it may be good to go to the night without giving mafia any more information.
Until I realized there were only three votes on Popo at the time (one being Truth's) - this was not a credible threat. (Contrast this with later in the day, when Truth asked the same question about Osuka, who was at six votes).

This question to Popopo is conceivable to me as SvS as well:
In post 110, Truth wrote:I may have 1 buddy, I may have 2, I may have 3. Either way, I am going to use the plural form.

popo, why is it a bad idea to out if I'm just in a neighbourhood?
And let's not forget this post, where Truth speculates that I could be the Vigilante
long before my counterclaim.
In post 1743, Truth wrote:Because I am town, Blair! Please don't shoot me if you're the vigilante. Does my buddy really need to prove this to be the case?

Dunnstral's plan where we let the vigilante shoot po if he's lying seems like a good idea.

But who else should be lynch today instead? osuka and po were my main suspects.
I think Truth v Popo was a weak SvS bus all along.

VOTE: Truth

My vote has been all over the place, but I think I'm set now. :lol:
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Post Post #2048 (isolation #214) » Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:21 pm

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In post 2026, Looker wrote:Does anyone have any backstory on Truth? Is he a child (as in underage)?
I also noticed during my ISO dive that Truth was asked about his home site, and replied that he couldn't say because it was linked to his university - so no, he is not a child.
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Post Post #2064 (isolation #215) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:12 am

Post by Blair »

In post 2063, Glitch wrote:Personally, I've been eliminated many times in past games for playing like a noob, instead of being eliminated for playing like scum, and I feel like that's what's happening with this Truth Train.
This is a blatant misrepresentation of the Truth wagon. If he were being eliminated for playing like a noob, it would have happened on Day 1.

People have presented complex, carefully thought out, nuanced arguments for why they believe Truth is scum - why are you reducing the debate to this?
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Post Post #2065 (isolation #216) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:15 am

Post by Blair »

In post 2050, Dunnstral wrote:Blair I take it you were not impressed with the meta?
NDMath is still a top suspect for me, and the meta observation was valid.

I'm also not persuaded that NDMath has adequately addressed why he is playing differently here from his town game.

Truth just looks worse to me. Glitch is also looking pretty scummy to me at this point. It's like a race to the bottom of my town reads.
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Post Post #2069 (isolation #217) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:23 am

Post by Blair »

In post 2066, Glitch wrote:
In post 2064, Blair wrote:
In post 2063, Glitch wrote:Personally, I've been eliminated many times in past games for playing like a noob, instead of being eliminated for playing like scum, and I feel like that's what's happening with this Truth Train.
This is a blatant misrepresentation of the Truth wagon. If he were being eliminated for playing like a noob, it would have happened on Day 1.

People have presented complex, carefully thought out, nuanced arguments for why they believe Truth is scum - why are you reducing the debate to this?
I think you're over-buffing the arguments presented against him. I've had a lot of questions, and there have been a lot of things that don't make sense that have come up -- and most times I bring them up or someone else does, Truth comes back with an answer that is consistent with the playstyle of a noob townie that has played the same game all along. Truth is either playing noob!scum or noob!town and when you read these excerpts, noob!town makes a lot more sense than noob!scum:

Spoiler: Truth's posts that can't be noob scum
In post 184, Truth wrote:Goddammit, I suck. All this discussion about me is a waste of time because I am not mafia. I'm sorry for leading town down this route because it just helps mafia hide behind this. I regret claiming.
In post 502, Truth wrote:Should we quickly lynch popopopopopopopopo and go into night? I don't we'll get a better suspect than this and it may be good to go to the night without giving mafia any more information.
In post 619, Truth wrote:I am personally happy with my vote on po
In post 865, Truth wrote:My suspects are po
In post 1171, Truth wrote:popopopopopopo (1): Truth ... Mafia!
In post 1582, Truth wrote:VOTE: po

For yesterday, I think he could be the mafia we are looking for.
In post 1593, Truth wrote:Are people doubting my mason claim because I didn't die? I think maybe mafia didn't target me because they were scared of doctors being on me. Which is great!
In post 1753, Truth wrote:I think po is most likely mafia but he may be town. If he is town, then it would be really bad if he shot me with his vigilante. That is why I asked the vigilante whoever they are not to shoot me.
In post 1923, Truth wrote:I only went off the po wagon because I thought the vigilante could kill him instead without giving themselves away. I still thought he was mafia from day 1 to day 2.
In post 1947, Truth wrote:I claimed the miller part because I saw on the wiki that people who get miller claim it in day 1, so I thought it would make me more believable.
In post 1973, Truth wrote:NDMath, why should a doctor speak up instead of just secretly protecting Blair and making mafia waste a kill?
In post 1999, Truth wrote:Blair, if you look at the wiki pages for Miller and Mason, you will see what I mean under Play Advice:

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Miller
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mason

It does not look like you are supposed to claim mason straight away so I thought it would look suspicious, which is why I tried combining it with miller which it recommends to claim straight away in your opening post.
In post 2059, Truth wrote:The first post you showed in that post you voted me, I was lying and was not okay with being lynched. I was just trying to prove to mafia that I actually was a mason and had no fear of proving my buddies as innocent if I died.
In post 2060, Truth wrote:I have always suspected po and tried to lynch him and I do not understand why you would think I could be partners with him. And now NDMath is saying the mafia are Truth and Dunnstral which would mean I as mafia have only been voting or trying to get my mafia partners lynched. I do not understand this at all.

Truth says he claimed mason to stay alive and miller so he could claim right off the bat. That makes sense for a noob town to make that play.
That's all well and good, but you didn't just characterize Truth as a newbie - you characterized the case(s) against him as him being scumread for being a newbie. This was false.

VOTE: Glitch

These posts read like scum who knows we're about to flip a Townie.

Stop making me change my vote.
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Post Post #2071 (isolation #218) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:59 am

Post by Blair »

Albert B. Rampage's tactics are not widely accepted, despite being on the wiki.

(Faux aggression is great, though, if you have the chutzpah to pull it off)
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Post Post #2074 (isolation #219) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:46 am

Post by Blair »

In post 2072, Glitch wrote:I'm more inclined to believe that the scum are pushing this truth train because it's the easiest place to push and get support on.
Name them?
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Post Post #2077 (isolation #220) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:32 am

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In post 2075, Truth wrote:A few pages ago, she said people were racing to be at the bottom of her "townreads". I find this suspcious - why didn't she say "mafiareads" or "scumreads"? I think this might be her slipping in knowing that the two people she was talking about were both town.
"Race to the bottom of my scum reads" wouldn't make much sense in this context.
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Post Post #2078 (isolation #221) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:34 am

Post by Blair »

But by all means, vote for the confirmed Vigilante. :roll:
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Post Post #2079 (isolation #222) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:44 am

Post by Blair »

I don't use the term "confirmed" lightly:

1. I claimed on Day 2

2. There were two kills on Night 2
  • The fact there were two kills proves there is a Vigilante (there are no Serial Killers in mini normals)
  • The fact neither of the kills were directed at me proves there is no "real" vig avoiding counter claiming me (there are no redirecting roles in Normals)


3. No one has counter claimed.
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Post Post #2081 (isolation #223) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:43 am

Post by Blair »

Your solve is:

{NDMath | Nauci / Dunnstral}

Aren't Nauci and Dunnstral both pushing NDMath? How confident are you that one of them is bussing? Which one is more likely to be a bus and why?
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Post Post #2083 (isolation #224) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:08 am

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I wouldn't have asked you to link them together if you hadn't indicated you believed the scum team was conspiring to lynch Truth.
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Post Post #2089 (isolation #225) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:21 pm

Post by Blair »

Nauci, who are we canceling today?

Best answer is Glitch, but we can also play "Wrong answers only" if you prefer.
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Post Post #2091 (isolation #226) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:20 pm

Post by Blair »

In post 2090, Nauci wrote:What did you think about my comments on the early Glitch push to lynch popo?
Your comments on his post ?

At the time of that post, Popo was at L-4 and Glitch's vote moved him to L-3. The basic premise of his case was "stop being a vote slave," which was an early shtick of Popo's from RVS. If Popo was going to be lynched Day 1, it wasn't going to be for that - especially since it's a very easy behavior for Popo to fix (which he did).

I can see it coming from scum who A.) wanted to slide into a wagon on his partner in the "Goldilocks Zone" (dead center of the wagon), or even B.) coaching his partner to sober up and clean up his play.

It doesn't look like a town-exclusive push to me.
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Post Post #2093 (isolation #227) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:52 pm

Post by Blair »

I also find NDMath scummy.

And Looker, a little. Honestly Looker is frustrating because he never interacts with anyone, he only passively interacts with the thread, reacting to events long after they've transpired. Every Looker post feels like a "catch up" post. I can't really draw any conclusions from that, though, because he always plays that way, as far as I can tell.

Glitch, I've already explained my thoughts.

Dunnstral, I've already explained why he could be scum.

Truth, I don't think I need to revisit why he could be scum AGAIN.

Nauci, I'm struggling to read because I feel like I'm getting a lot less content from than I'm accustomed to. Which could also be scummy, because it's a lot easier to be aloof scum.

I'm scumreading the entire playerlist. I have no real town reads to speak of.

But Glitch I've caught arguing in bad faith more than once, and at least once it looked down right intentional, so he's my preference at the moment.
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Post Post #2095 (isolation #228) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:56 pm

Post by Blair »

I agree that it was 1,000% obvious who you were scumreading.

Upon reflection, I concluded he was probably just being obtuse because he wanted you to go on the record with a precise list of scum reads.

At least, I hope that's what he was doing.
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Post Post #2096 (isolation #229) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:01 pm

Post by Blair »

The trouble is, Truth is either scum or flashing-neon-light-wagon-bait. I really don't want him in LyLo (or whatever we're calling it now) for that reason. So it's really important that we either eliminate Truth today, or eliminate scum today so I can eliminate Truth tonight without rolling the dice on the entire game in the process.
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Post Post #2107 (isolation #230) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:31 pm

Post by Blair »

So, I reread Day 2 (side note: Day 2 was pretty short, everyone should do this) and it might just be:

{Glitch | Looker}

There's room in there for NDMath to sub for Glitch or Truth to sub for Looker, but I feel strongest about Glitch/Looker right now.

Dunnstral may actually be town
for once.


Here's a summary of the relevant events of Day 2, in order:
  • Norwe naked votes Popo right out the gate
  • Truth votes Popo
  • Norwe claims an unspecified investigation
  • Blair votes Popo
  • Popo claims VT
  • Norwe claims Gunsmith with guilty on Popo
  • Glitch votes Popo <--- Post , must-read!
  • NDMath "spiritually" (but not actually) votes Popo
  • Popo claims 2-shot Vigilante
  • Blair unvotes and begins interrogating Popo
  • Blair suggests no counterclaim, real vig can shoot Popo if he's lying
  • Blair votes NDMath, proposes Popo shoot Truth
  • Popo votes NDMath
  • Looker votes Popo <--- Post , must-read!
  • Nauci votes NDMath
  • NDMath opposes plan to vig Truth
  • Nauci agrees with logic on vig'ing Truth
  • Popo refuses to shoot Truth
  • Popo shares his PoE: {Looker / Dunnstral / NDMath} <--- 7th Circle of WIFOM Hell
  • Dunnstral supports vig not counterclaiming, opposes choosing Popo's shot
  • Truth agrees with Dunnstral, asks Blair (!) not to shoot him
  • Truth votes no lynch
  • Glitch questions Truth about his Popo read <--- Post
  • Glitch confirms scumread on Popo
  • Dunnstral affirms he is opposed to lynching Popo, as real vig will shoot if he's lying
  • Glitch moves vote to Truth
  • Looker opposes Blair's plan, doesn't trust her or Popo <--- Post
  • Dunnstral disagrees with Norwe, says real vig should not claim
  • Blair counterclaims, votes Popo
  • Dunnstral votes Popo
  • Popo votes Blair
  • Looker posts just to say he doesn't understand why Dunnstral asked him for self-meta, no comment on counterclaim
  • Dunnstral compares Looker's play to his scum meta
  • Popo self-hammers
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Post Post #2108 (isolation #231) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:35 pm

Post by Blair »

In post 2107, Blair wrote:Glitch confirms scumread on Popo
*Truth confirms scumread on Popo
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Post Post #2109 (isolation #232) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:36 pm

Post by Blair »

It's worth noting that after doing all that:

A.) NDMath also looks pretty bad

B.) It's pretty much impossible to draw conclusions about Nauci from Day 2.
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Post Post #2145 (isolation #233) » Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:21 am

Post by Blair »

In post 2144, Looker wrote:I just wanted to make sure there'd be no backpedaling with a counterclaim.
Please counterclaim. It would make today so much easier.

Dunnstral and Nauci: Truth was referring to the post Nauci quoted, he wasn't saying he JUST realized 10 minutes ago I was the Vigilante.
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Post Post #2148 (isolation #234) » Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:42 am

Post by Blair »

Looker is clearly not actually reading the game and I'm not sure if he's more likely to do that as town or scum.
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Post Post #2151 (isolation #235) » Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:34 am

Post by Blair »

We should never give up on our dreams, Nauci!

VOTE: Looker

Team work makes the dream work!
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Post Post #2152 (isolation #236) » Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:44 am

Post by Blair »

In post 2150, Nauci wrote:Anyway, I really think we need to flip Truth today and I really do think he's scum
Ok, maybe, but hear me out:

Spoiler:
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Post Post #2153 (isolation #237) » Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:58 am

Post by Blair »

If Truth
is
mafia, his partner is probably Looker anyway - given that Looker was the only person we were still waiting to hear confirmation from (everyone else had said they weren't Masons with Truth) when Truth changed his tune and admitted he wasn't a Mason.

Looker was pretty pointedly avoiding answering that question.

It makes sense to me that, if Truth is scum, they were debating whether or not to claim masons together (Truth's plan), Looker was stalling, and finally put his foot down and said Truth was on his own to dig out of this hole - then Truth revealed his lie.

So either way, I think Looker is a good choice today.
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Post Post #2159 (isolation #238) » Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:38 pm

Post by Blair »

In post 2157, Nauci wrote:It could be just as easy to believe that Truth came "clean" about his gambit because he knew Looker wasn't in a mason or scum channel with him and therefore obviously wouldn't claim with him
But Truth continued talking about his "buddies" for a while after it became clear Looker was the only option left.

Do you think Truth's (non-Looker) partner came in to the thread and said "I'm not masons with Truth" and he still stuck with it for a while afterwards, knowing he would be strung up once Looker answered?

Those posts right before Truth came clean, where everyone but Looker had denied being Masons and Truth still tried to claim he was one, only make sense to me if Truth is scum with Looker or Truth isn't scum at all.
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Post Post #2161 (isolation #239) » Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:08 pm

Post by Blair »

Hint: I suggested you weren't reading the game because you suggested I could be scum.

This could have been inferred by reading the post I linked when I said it.
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Post Post #2162 (isolation #240) » Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:10 pm

Post by Blair »

Also: I never once claimed I was a superior player to you. You are the one calling me "catastrophic" and calling my out-of-game experience in to question - I don't think I'm the one measuring e-peens here.
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Post Post #2163 (isolation #241) » Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:15 pm

Post by Blair »

You also keep fixating on how I'm supposedly shading you for "not babysitting the thread" - another thing I have never said.

I'll grant you the benefit of the doubt on that one, though. Maybe you misunderstood what I meant by you never interacting directly with anyone.

What I meant by that was that, even when someone replies to your post a mere minute or two after you've posted, you don't reply until 18-24 hours later.

I'm not asking you to babysit the thread - it just feels like you post once, then as soon as you click submit you immediately close the browser, shut off the computer, and run into another room until tomorrow.

You don't need to be around all the time, or even most of the time, but when you ARE around - be around.

I can't make you do that, of course, and I don't expect to. I'm just explaining why it's hard to get a good read on someone who posts a 24-hour recap once a day.
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Post Post #2164 (isolation #242) » Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:22 pm

Post by Blair »

In post 2160, Looker wrote:She says I avoided commenting on Truth's claim, but I posted that it was self-resolving. "Pointedly" is her own subjective exaggeration, btw.
We asked everyone to answer if they were masons with Truth. Everyone answered but you. You pointedly ignored that question, even as we were openly discussing that you were the only person left to answer it.

This is what I mean by "not reading." Am I to believe you just missed that entire conversation at the time?
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Post Post #2168 (isolation #243) » Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:10 pm

Post by Blair »

Popo was pretty much caught-scum lolposting by that point () so I wouldn't read too much into it.

It was a direct response to my post immediately above it, where I told Looker Popo was caught-scum, so context makes it NAI in my view.
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Post Post #2170 (isolation #244) » Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:28 pm

Post by Blair »

Where did Dunnstral go?
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Post Post #2177 (isolation #245) » Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:39 pm

Post by Blair »

and are both troubling to me.
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Post Post #2178 (isolation #246) » Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:41 pm

Post by Blair »

Yeah, is scummy. Good call.

VOTE: NDMath
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Post Post #2182 (isolation #247) » Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:03 pm

Post by Blair »

The thing that bothered me about was specifically his analysis of the Popo/Looker interaction near the end of Day 2.

My thought process:

1. He dismisses it out of hand as unlikely to be SvS.

2. This only makes sense as exclusively TvS (rather than NAI) if you ignore context (it was a direct, one-off response to my post directly above his).

3. Therefore, he must have just been crawling through an ISO of Popo, rather than reading the thread in context.

4. Nothing wrong with #3 on its own, but the specific post Glitch is addressing here is OBVIOUSLY a direct reply to something even when you view it in ISO.

5. When it pinged him as indicative of something, why didn't he check what it was a response to?

6. Conclusion: Doing an ISO crawl without demonstrating the genuine curiosity that comes with scumhunting to do basic things like check for context before posting long, expository posts suggests... going through the motions?

Just trying to get my thoughts on the table before someone hammers, since I'm basically a guaranteed kill tonight.
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Post Post #2208 (isolation #248) » Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:13 pm

Post by Blair »

Nauci whyyyy :(

GG scum!

Truth, please never do that again. :lol:
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Post Post #2211 (isolation #249) » Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:20 pm

Post by Blair »

I was so frustrated with myself, I kept letting myself get talked out of pushing you lol
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Post Post #2213 (isolation #250) » Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:21 pm

Post by Blair »

I've only seen town-Dunnstral once, big sad.
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Post Post #2220 (isolation #251) » Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:00 pm

Post by Blair »

The one time I played with town!Dunnstral he was not a replacement.
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Post Post #2231 (isolation #252) » Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:27 pm

Post by Blair »

In post 2222, Truth wrote:
In post 2208, Blair wrote:Nauci whyyyy :(

GG scum!

Truth, please never do that again. :lol:
Do what?
Don't lie about your role, as a vanilla townie, on Day 1, when any role claim at all was completely uncalled for.
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Post Post #2234 (isolation #253) » Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:39 pm

Post by Blair »

Just lie about your record like everyone else does. It's easy! Here, watch:

"I never roll scum." - Blair, June 2020, while scum
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Post Post #2241 (isolation #254) » Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:48 pm

Post by Blair »

In post 2235, Glitch wrote:I have a question, particularly for Blair. You said multiple times that I was arguing in bad faith and maybe this is just me being uneducated but could you elaborate on what you mean by that and explain how I did so?

I'm asking genuinely to find out, not to say I didn't do it. Just trying to figure out how I argued "in bad faith."
Arguing in bad faith, in this context, meant you were predicating an argument on a logical foundation that you did not genuinely believe, or that you had intentionally neglected to carefully examine before putting it forward to the thread.

tl;dr - "I'm not actually trying to understand what you meant in that post, I'm going to quote it and misinterpret it because I know the argument will sound persuasive."
I ask because I am wondering if if is something that is scummy but acceptable, or if it is actually like unethical playing regardless of alignment?
It's actually neither. It's not inherently scummy, because it's very difficult to tell the difference between a bad-faith scum argument, and townie confirmation bias. When I called you on it, it was a judgment call on my part - I interpreted it to be a bad-faith argument rather than confirmation bias. (I was right - you can't have confirmation bias about a Townie as scum, because you know they're innocent - but I couldn't have really been 100% sure at the time)

It's definitely not unethical play, either. It's pretty good scum play - you almost have to engage in this to some degree as scum if you ever want to convincingly push a mislynch. The art of perfecting it boils down to either A) being so subtle and persuasive that no one notices it's bad faith, or B) making it look like confirmation bias.

I believe the first time I accused you of it I singled out a single sentence that tipped me off - you might refer back to that if you want to develop this skill more. There was something in that post that tipped me off that you were fully aware that your case was stretching the facts.

You played well, and while some will say you didn't because *they* suspected you, the truth is you maintained about the perfect ratio of suspicion - you were far enough down the scum pile to avoid being lynched, while still suspected by enough people that no one was surprised you survived to endgame.
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Post Post #2243 (isolation #255) » Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:28 pm

Post by Blair »

Town usually succumbs to paranoia.

I think you may have benefitted a degree from the Gambler's Fallacy with Nauci and I, Dunnstral. :lol:
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Post Post #2255 (isolation #256) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:57 am

Post by Blair »

Dunnstral wrote:If I quickhammer here I get shot at immediately by Blair, but I can do it if you'd like
Truer words have ne'er been spoken.
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Post Post #2257 (isolation #257) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:54 pm

Post by Blair »

Apologies for gunning you down in the prime of your life, CSF.
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