Mini 2156: Launch Mob [Game Over]

[midwaybear]

Oh no!
VOTE: CantLynchAPuppy because I can.

[midwaybear]

this is a good wagon

Are you serious? If so, why?

[midwaybear]

I'm always serious

I think this is a lie.

Town again

Wdym by town AGAIN? You were scum last time

Wtf, I wasn't actually expecting to roll mafia goon lmao
Maybe Umlaut has a sick sense of humour

Uh I don't see your name in the scum PT...

Anyways, I think Dunnstral is town for not letting the L-1 vote sit on me. Don't have anything solid on anyone else.

[midwaybear]

Anyways, I think Dunnstral is town for not letting the L-1 vote sit on me. Don't have anything solid on anyone else.

this is a solid read for you? id like to know more

Well it's not much, but it's the best idea I have for now. My gut tells me you're town, so I can work with that too.

In response to Mafiagoon...
1. Town
2. Launcher
3. Pretty excited
4. I like town better now because I realized I'm not that good at mafia.

[midwaybear]

My friends call me Mafi, midway. Don't you dare suggest we're not friends.

You used to enjoy playing as scum more?

ok goon Yes, I did.

@Blair maybe... I guess it could come from both town and scum, but I feel like scum has more incentive to leave the vote on.

[midwaybear]

I just realized that sometimes websites ask you for your mother's maiden name for confirmation of passwords and stuff. Mafia Goon is asking for a credit card info...
I advise you to skip over questions 3 and 5.

[midwaybear]

have you ever directly caught a mafia goon by using your Alignment Indicative Solving Questions, or is it more of a way to get people to talk?

[midwaybear]

i am a bit suspicious of you being a mafia goon.

Is this legit?

The puppy is cool

[midwaybear]

I tried to write something like Blair did, but I can't. Why do you scumread me?

[midwaybear]

People need to talk more. Here are a question.
How genuine do you think Blair's reaction to Dunnstral supposedly quickhammering me was?

[midwaybear]

(Is that what people thought I was reacting to?)

Y e s

[midwaybear]

Oh, you have GOT to be kidding me...

Dunnstral. Did you actually roll scum AGAIN?

so now you view putting someone at L-1 a scumtell?

erm presumably he's on about the vote by InnocentVillager after the L-1 vote, which immediately preceded your post, and to the untrained eye may have appeared to be a hammer.

Not that I agree or care, but just saying.

Meh don't like this from Battle Mage. Answers a question directed at someone else, and he is pretty self-aware of this which is scummy.

i’ll find midways scum partner when i’m home.

First mafia goon and now me? You really need to explain yourself.

i mean midway's iso does look like crap but

VOTE: Battle Mage

[midwaybear]

Spoiler:

erm presumably he's on about the vote by InnocentVillager after the L-1 vote, which immediately preceded your post, and to the untrained eye may have appeared to be a hammer.

Not that I agree or care, but just saying.

Meh don't like this from Battle Mage. Answers a question directed at someone else, and he is pretty self-aware of this which is scummy.

We're not in the newbie forum now, but I teach newbies this all the time - it's fine to answer questions directed at somebody else.

It's also not a remotely interesting question, so it doesn't matter who answers it - I think I made that point quite clearly in an effort to progress the discussion.

Do you stand by your read above? If so, please explain:

A. Why you think the L-1 "question" was particularly important?
B. Whether you think my "answer" was right or wrong?
C. What you think was lost in terms of sorting somebody's slot as a result of me answering this?
D. Based on responses A-C, why you think my action was scum-indicative, with reference to your assessment of me being "self-aware" of it?

i mean midway's iso does look like crap but

VOTE: Battle Mage

Is this a random vote, or would it be helpful if I set out some of my perspective on your ISO?

It's ok to admit if you don't really care.

A. It's not very important but not a lot of people were talking so I decided to ask it. blair's reaction was not normal though.
B. Your answer was wrong too because I wasn't really thinking about IV so it was more of my mistake.
C. Your answer was wrong so my answer would be the one lost.
D. I can see you answering that to try to look helpful as scum. There's not a lot of reason to answer it as town.

Yes, I would like you to tell me why my ISO sucks.

[midwaybear]

Oh, you have GOT to be kidding me...

Dunnstral. Did you actually roll scum AGAIN?

Can you explain how you derived Dunnstral being scum then?
Also, your tell doesn't work because I am town

[midwaybear]

Dunnstral put you at L-1, then a mere six minutes later, thought

"ehh, maybe not..."

then voted for Puppy instead, and made it look like an innocent opportunity to make a joke with Puppy username in the process. It felt a little too self conscious to me to be genuine.

Ok thanks. This is a fair point.
I was thinking your strong reaction was based on him quickhammering/almost quickhammering me because he does that a lot as scum.

[midwaybear]

I was thinking your strong reaction was based on him quickhammering/almost quickhammering me because he does that a lot as scum.

You acknowledging this makes your earlier arguing look weird

So what are you going to do about it? For the record, I am not scumreading you right now. I think you should address Blair's point though. What you did could be perceived as scummy self consciousness.

In any case, by your own admission, this wasn't an important topic anyway, so is your answer being lost a particularly bad thing?

I agree that me not answering is not very important, but I was just answering your question.

You've made it clear in your answer to C that me answering the question was constructive in enabling you to sort my slot

But I didn't...

It was, from my perspective, a pointless line of questioning, and I wanted to nip it in the bud. To continue to pretend something is AI when it isn't, and wilfully waste time talking about inconsequentials, are more typical scum behaviours.

This is fair and may be an accurate representation of what I did.

Can you explain why that would be scum-indicative here when you know I have done it as town elsewhere?

I don't remember you doing it in our previous game, but I believe you because it's risky to lie about it.

A less generous intepretation would be that you are not appraising me in good faith, and perceive me as an easy target, against whom you can pursue a lazy ill-considered argument.

I do not think you are an easy target and it follows that I would need better arguments to launch you.

Why did you not ask, either originally, or subsequently when you realised your mistake, why Blair didn't respond to Innocentvillager's fake hammer? If you thought her reaction to Dunnstral was an over-reaction, did you not also think that her failure to acknowledge innocentvillager was an under-reaction? Surprised you didn't comment on this.

I'm not really sure about this. You have a good point here. I think I remembered Dunnstral more because he also thought Blair's reaction was "over the top". Maybe she didn't care because she knew it was fake.

Is your acknowledgement in blue above, paving the way for you to vote Dunnstral?

No.

This feels like an unusually serious line to take so early, although some players are just like this. This isn't consistent however...

Is this scummy or what?

"my gut tells me you're town" on page 2? sounds like an informed minority.

scummy answers to the 4 questions.

Not really, but whatever you say

Very jokey, and not taking the bait of being friendly - which I think is slightly scum-indicative, as town are often more liberal with their allegiances.

Wouldn't it be the opposite where scum would be more inclined to buddy up?

Inconceivable that anyone would have fallen for this, why even bother saying it? it was clearly a joke.

I like to take jokes seriously just for fun sometimes.

In the last game I played with Midway, this same approach was used, and the same conversation ensued about why it was done.

Last game I played with you I was town.

Non-serious question misleadingly framed as a serious one.

No, I was serious. I want to know why Ydrasse scumreads mafia goon(and me).

I've already covered the substance of this in some detail, but the vote for me here is really weak, and is likely driven by a perceived self-conciousness about posting frequently but not voting since an original random vote. Probably about the time scum might consider this at risk of looking conspicuous. Midway needs to make another vote and wants to make it sound serious so he looks like he is progressing the game. More marks for presentation than substance.

Regarding needing to make a serious vote, I feel like we were still in the early joking stage of the game. We weren't really transitioning to the more serious part, so I disagree that scum me would be inclined to do so at that time.


Not really sure what to make of Battle Mage yet. Seems quite serious which is different but NAI.

[midwaybear]

@Mafia Goon I'm apparently scummy as town and I believe that I am scummy as scum. I will be interested in how your meta dive works.

[midwaybear]

@midway: i guess it wasn't clear and that's on me but i don't actually sr you or mafia goon because i haven't taken this seriously yet.

Ok, it just didn't really sound like you were joking to me.

@IV I was thinking there would be 2 scum because 3 seems like a bit too much for a 10p game. I'm not sure though, and it's interesting that there are 10 players instead of 9.

[midwaybear]

do we know that there are exactly 3 scum? or is it merely probable

please don't read into this question from an alignment perspective I just want to know thanks

^i would ask this as town or scum.

Does anyone else think this is sorta awkward?
Sorry Umlaut, but happy birthday!

[midwaybear]

I just want to know what people's thoughts are on this, I don't have a good sense for closed game setup spec. But I've seen people ask this stuff multiple times in past games and it leads to some speculation about their alignment, so I wanted to acknowledge that I was conscious of this fact to make people read into it less. I hope me saying that doesn't make people read into it more -_-

Ok, that's fair. I'm a little interested why you thought there could be 3 scum because I am thinking there are 2.

I would say it stands out to me more that you didn't make this observation when you first responded to the post, and instead answered the question at face value, and then returned 20 minutes later to throw that shade.

Meh, I think that is NAI. Both town and scum me would do it.

[midwaybear]

@Ydrasse: don't worry. It might look like a lot, but I'm still posting those one liners
I'll reply to BM later, but @BM what made you change your vote? Was it something I did or something Nosferatu did?

[midwaybear]

I’m not really sure how much BM actually believes in his Nosferatu push. It feels like a dumb push to make.

[midwaybear]

Aight time to reply to Battle Mage.

Translation: If you dare fking scumread me, I'm going to OMGUS the living shit out of you. Now don't look at me!

Not really sure where you got this from? Dunnstral is null scum to me because him not voting me isn't as townie as I thought and he's not posting.

I'm not sure how this stacks up against your original attack on me for answering the question for you, where you suggested you were very worried about your answer being lost. Please can you remind me again why you're voting for me?

I was voting for you because I thought you were trying to me unnecessarily helpful, and your read on me seemed to me a vague

scum, but could be town

. I think you deserve this UNVOTE: Battle Mage, but I'm still having trouble reading you right now.

Why are you lying about this?

I did not mention it in part C, but I did overall. I guess it is semantics.

Isn't this you doing exactly what you accused me of? Answering a question for Blair. Only in this case, it's a relevant question, and rather than even seek to ask her, you simply give a justification for her.

You're right.

Is it? Are you asking for a town view before you commit your own? Good to have an explanation on this.

No, that was a question at you. I wanted to know whether you thought me being serious was scummy.

As you know, I have a bit of form using this approach - you don't care for my opinion though? Even though you were quick to ask Mafia Goon for his view on the same earlier?

Not sure what you're trying to get at here. My comment was sarcastic and an attempt to discredit your argument against me.

Town on the other hand, often try and form townblocs, and when successful these can be very effective.

Ok, but wouldn't scum be incentivized to buddy so that they can get into townblocks?

Can you set out your assessment of me, maybe using 2 lists "town" and "scum" and listing points under each?

My read on you isn't really like this because I think you've been doing things that are generally townie this game, but I feel like scum you could fake easily. I guess if I had to say it: you are slight lean town.

[midwaybear]

Meh the reasoning for voting BM was ok, but I do agree that the jab at Nosferatu was pretty scummy.
I'm liking puppy for puppy last few posts, but idk why.

[midwaybear]

Inen is probably town for this. It takes some real perspective shifting to fabricate this line of thought. I'm disappointed, Inen; we would make good scum partners.

Can you explain what you mean by perspective shift? I do townlean IV, but I don't understand how you derived it from the posts you quoted.

i missed you too buddy! have you solved the game yet? oh god please say yes

Why do you expect mafia goon to solve the game? I can't really tell if you're serious about this, but you have asked mafia goon this at least once before too.

my question is: are dumb pushes more prone to come from town or scum though.

They come from both alignments.

i am willing to accept the L

???

My take on what Nosferatu means about Blair/Dunn is that Blair's push on Dunn didn't make sense and thus might have been too informed. However, I think Blair raised a fair point. Also, do you still scumread me blair?

[midwaybear]

Wait...
Is mafia goon just a mafia traitor open wolfing?

[midwaybear]

Can you explain what you mean by perspective shift? I do townlean IV, but I don't understand how you derived it from the posts you quoted.

Getting so hung up over how a question like the one he asked looks means he's self-conscious about slips and how they can be read. I've made a very similar string of posts like that as town before, and I think it's weird and a hard thing to fabricate as scum, since the paranoia won't exist if you're scum since your aim with the question is to look towny for not knowing the answer in the first place, not to try and discount any way it can be read alignment-wise.

Yeah, but as scum you would also be paranoid that people think you are scum trying to dumb tell.

[midwaybear]

Meh the reasoning for voting BM was ok, but I do agree that the jab at Nosferatu was pretty scummy.

Okay... where's the vote then?

I don't like the reasoning for voting BM. How did you feel when he backed off you? You were the one who was interacting with the most (tbf I didn't really through the whole wall wars, too many nested quotes and I got confused) so you should have the best sense of this. There's no reason that it's necessarily scummy to back off after grilling someone for a bit, which is BM's style anyway, and it seems more likely that lurkerscum!rock just needed some easy content to pass off as analysis. Like tell me genuinely why what he described specifically could be reasonably interpreted as scum motivated with some amount of thought and confidence.

That and the Nosferatu vote seems like an incredibly superficial analysis which he seems unnaturally confident in and I don't believe that he's read your wall wars in their entirety. Neither of these feel much like a real town process.

Pedit: oops looks like you are catching up

In general I hate these kinds of lurking catchup posts that just cast shade on people for superficial reasons without mentioning any townreads. As scum I get upset when townies get into a wall war with each other and subsequently unvote each other. I get upset when town forms townblocs. It's natural for scum!me to want to cast doubt on these. The fact that this is the material he decided to include in his catchup post is particularly incriminating for me.

@blair he did elaborate here.
@IV to answer your question. I voted BM for his whole thing about me being scummy but maybe town, so that’s why I said r2r’s reason on that front was ok. You can interpret what BM did there as a sort of hedge where he refuses to really commit to a stance about me which is generally scummy. After interacting with him, I feel a little better.
I hope I can post more tomorrow. I think I will VOTE: Ydrasse. I see merit in the Nosferatu wagon, but I think this is fine too.

[midwaybear]

i sheep this

VOTE: ready2rock

i don't think that ready2rock's statement about nosferatu is really that confident though, tbf. "very combatitive" is strong wording ig but given that it's pinned on as an afterthought i'd argue that there isn't a lot of heart in it.

yeah this is sorta a hedge. I feel better about my vote.

To clarify a bit, my case is that in his read of midway, especially his ISO analysis post, he presents every post and basically waves his arms and says "see? this is clearly scum!" There's almost no "this isn't too bad" or "I could see this coming from misled town, but..." and this is what I meant by uncharitable.

I actually felt differently about his early read on me. He was leaving room to townread me and that was the reason for my initial vote.

I kinda want to say that this is too careless to come from scum. Been wrong on that before, but I'll go with that for now

With Dunnstral, being lazy as scum is definitely something he would do. I don't think you should let someone free from suspicion just because they seem to be too scummy to be scum.

I think I can see r2r's point based on the quoted portions in 221 about how BM was being uncharitable towards me.

279 ok then...

I do agree with IV's most recent post about how BM's early interactions with me aren't necessarily scum motivated. I'm also not realla fan of Blair calling out people but not really explaining why she thinks that way.

[midwaybear]

Blair has Schrodinger's Case, where she’s presented this incredible genius read for the last page or two, but we haven't opened the box so you’ll never know if her case was ever actually there or not

hmm this is what I was thinking too. I'm not really feeling the r2r wagon so much.

[midwaybear]

I think he's playing like he would as scum

This is very helpful. I understand why you scumread me now.

[midwaybear]

I think he's playing like he would as scum

This is very helpful. I understand why you scumread me now.

The only time I've seen you as anti-town is when you thought you were anti-town in lunacy, for the first day only. I'm comparing your play here to that

I don’t think so, but how do you think they are similar?

[midwaybear]

Was your reaction to Dunnstral "rolling scum" a genuine one or were you overreacting?

I think I already asked this question to her.

This is not very helpful. I don't understand anything!

I like this. I don't know why I like this.

We should probably hang Ydrasse if nothing new comes up.

[midwaybear]

also i've been meaning to ask this for like five games now but what in the world does partner equity actually mean.

It means that two people have an above random chance of being wolves together maybe because of a specific interaction(or lack thereof).
I'm lazy so I am going to call Battle Mage's wall town and desperately pray that he isn't scum taking advantage of heavy apathy. Dunnstral legit always plays in a pretty scummy way, but I guess that's no reason not to vote him. I need to hear from him more.

[midwaybear]

Alright, we going Dunnstral today?

[midwaybear]

Alright, we going Dunnstral today?

So you have nothing else to say?

effort is hard. I don't agree that Dunnstral looks townier now.

[midwaybear]

Dunnstral is caught!scum, stop resisting. You can only delay our glorious town victory!

how?

I'm fine with ydrasse, but I don't get the Dunnstral townreads.

[midwaybear]

Yeah, I agree with r2r here. Dunnstral is not doing much that makes me think town or showing any potential to contrib further own.
I think what he did at L-1 isn't hard for him to fake.

[midwaybear]

We should probably stick with Dunnstrall because I don’t want to narrow down the PR pool any more.

[midwaybear]

VOTE: Dunnstral

[midwaybear]

i hope im doing the right thing

i am an investigative role

This is low key scummy because you aren’t specifying what role. I still will vote ydrasse though
VOTE: Ydrasse

[midwaybear]

You should just full claim.

[midwaybear]

I think he should full claim so he doesn’t have the excuse of “well I thought it was enough: and we can discuss.

[midwaybear]

Yeah, that should be good!

[midwaybear]

Ydrasse will be the first scum I caught and successfully wagoned. I hope at least.

[midwaybear]

Reads like scum positioning to join the wagon (whether ydrasse is scum or not)

I literally started her wagon and only unvoted/revoted to vote Dunn and revote her...

[midwaybear]

bruh I started the ydrasse wagon
gimme my towncred

[midwaybear]

VOTE: Ydrasse

Gimme my towncred now.

[midwaybear]

i scumread her first, and I don't bus.
I'm not scum here

[midwaybear]

do you think scum was on the ydrasse wagon or off it

weakest vote was r2r probably. So either him or off wagon.

[midwaybear]

Yes

[midwaybear]

yeah, why is Blair scummy?

[midwaybear]

Your argument is, "Blair couldn't possibly misread me like this."

Is this invalid?

[midwaybear]

Idk I thought Dunnstral was trying to suggest that you should be better at reading him and that you were being unfair in a scummy way.

[midwaybear]

My eye is also starting to be on the people who are kind of fading into the background during this day

This seems like a convenient way to get out of arguing with Blair.

[midwaybear]

@r2r
The last scum is probably in {r2r, Blair, Dunn}
nosferatu, BM, Puppy, and goon all seem townie. If my poe is correct, then we should win every time(unless there's 3 scum).

[midwaybear]

Ok, I should have more time on this game now.
@Nosferatu is BM scum just because of how he voted Ydrasse? I know he pressured you for some bad reasons early in the game, but is there anything more to it?
I'm leaning away from Dunnstral, but he probably has to go at some point in this game because he isn't doing much right now.
r2r and Blair I need to look at more...
Still not sure who to vote yet, but we have time.

[midwaybear]

then why does basically everyone else have me as town?

[midwaybear]

hmm
maybe it's because I was the first person to show suspicion towards ydrasse and the first person to actually vote her. Bussing exists which is a fair point, but it doesn't make sense for me to start that early because
a. town apathy makes any wagon a threat to hang someone
b. I don't bus in general

[midwaybear]

nosferatu's tone has been pretty good this game, but I guess it's fakeable. Let's get r2r/Blair tomorrow if this flips green.
VOTE: nosferatu

[midwaybear]

UNVOTE: /unvote]
VOTE: ready2rock
nosferatu doesn't feel like a good hang. Why is he scummy?

[midwaybear]

What's the case on Blair? Just that you didn't like the way she pushed you? That sorta seems like OMGUS...

[midwaybear]

well we got scum D1
maybe we should no hang today because there's not a lot of consensus.

[midwaybear]

I'm way too low, but I will also VOTE: Dunnstral
The main argument that he's town is that he was Ydrasse's counterwagon, but he hasn't done much townie stuff IMO.

[midwaybear]

But I mean let's not forget his airtight defense:

Well... it's not me

oh shoot you right!

Anyone who is opposed to Dunn today: Please explain in what way he has helped the town

The last statement is sorta scummy to me for some reason. It seems like you are viewing Dunn as a policy lynch and then will shrug your shoulders and say "oh well" when he flips town. Granted, he has been pretty useless.
My vote is probably on you tomorrow if he does flip town though.

[midwaybear]

I think puppy townread dunnstral for acting like town when he was about to be hanged. But I don't think that's a good reason which is why I'm fine with Dunnstral.

[midwaybear]

do we out vig today?

[midwaybear]

ok, I guess puppy has to be town...

[midwaybear]

ok, so then the vig should claim and we win assuming one remaining scum!

[midwaybear]

ya p much

[midwaybear]

I think that one of the mafia members is midway. He lacks of commitment to his own leads. Technically he picked Ydrasse to be his target but his whole agenda was only about pursuing dunn at the time and lynching him. Ydr is only mentioned in terms of receiving credit for his eventual flip.

No, I was the first person to be suspicious of her.
Also, VT.

[midwaybear]

Last scum is Blair or puppy...
Seems risky for kerset to gambit like that

[midwaybear]

Are you talking about kerset? I didn’t crumb VT at all.
FMPOV, the game is p much solved but not completely sure. Do traitors know their scum buddies?

[midwaybear]

if there was a mafia traitor, then why did someone die tonight? Didn't someone say traitors don't have guns?
BM was sorta townie, but this claim is now strange...

[midwaybear]

Well... it's not me

I don't get the thing about the traitor btw.

[midwaybear]

VOTE: Blair
I find puppy townier, and I found battle mage and kerset townie. I'm still not sure how the claim fully works though.

[midwaybear]

UNVOTE:
well i didn't know that...

[midwaybear]

wait, if you are town and so is r2r and there are two scum, I should feel confident right

[midwaybear]

hmm, I do think it would be weird for both puppy and blair to be scum. 7 vs 3 seems hard for town idk though
I think blair is scummier than puppy though, and I also thought BM was pretty townie? I'll check again.

[midwaybear]

Is it important that blair wasn't quickhammered after I voted her for over 12 hours?

[midwaybear]

so do you think it's more likely that kerset's lying or that there is a bulletproof mafia?

[midwaybear]

VOTE: Blair
yeah, this is probably the way to go. Kerset sounds townie and puppy has been putting in lots of effort.

[midwaybear]

Hello!
We have not really figured why 10 instead of 9 yet, but I'm 50% sure you are scum

[midwaybear]

why would a traitor mean even numbers?

[midwaybear]

You sound like you would suspect people for having different opinion then you.

What does this even mean?
I want to town read Fidget now...

[midwaybear]

well since puppy and kerset have both popped in and fidget has not been quickhammered: there's either no traitor or she is just scum.
@Kerset They actually were serious. I was suspicious of Ydrasse initially because she said she scumread me and MG, but then said it was a joke. I did not think that was townie, so that's why I said "it didn't sound like a joke".

[midwaybear]

wow now I'm townreading Fidget...
I think Kerset is just town at this point though, and since Fidget wasn't quickhammered this should be an auto win?

[midwaybear]

Hmm. I just need to convince myself Kerset is town, and this game is ezpz.
You don’t need to effort so much!

[midwaybear]

Mid voted ydra right after he got counterclaimed. With CC, it was quite obvious that ydra will be executed regardless, so mid was securing his place on the wagon and wanted to be convincing.

This argument assumes that I'm scum, so it doesn't work.

[midwaybear]

yeah, let's just hang fidget today

[midwaybear]

thanks? I feel bad for Fidget because she has put in a lot of effort, but BM didn't look like scum with Ydrasse. At least the interactions seemed natural.

[midwaybear]

well i townread everyone to some extent
i did not townread blair though. My second pick is puppy, but I'll need to think hard in LYLO

[midwaybear]

Why is it game losing if you vote puppy and he's town?

[midwaybear]

well maybe i can make the right choice in lylo...
it will be my first one though so no guarantees. I'll still listen to your case though.

[midwaybear]

blair was moving to a new house, so while I would normally agree that she would be better, it might not have been the case this time.

[midwaybear]

tough game I agree. I guess I can look into some isos.

[midwaybear]

idk lol
ydrasse interacted pretty naturally with her scumbuddy in newbie 2012, so I guess my TR on BM due to interactions has a little less validity...

[midwaybear]

maybe scum is just trying to look townie instead of making other people look scummy

[midwaybear]

I think 483 and 484 is a townie sequence for BM. He unvotes Ydrasse to check on whether there could exist two investigative roles, and he immediately revotes when he finds that to be unlikely. I don't think that is really necessary to do as scum.

[midwaybear]

eh kerset probably claimed because she genuinely thought it was lylo

[midwaybear]

If midway is scum and he wins then i am going to call all of you bad rather then him good. For 2 recent days he haven't even been pretending to scumhunt or solve. He keeps nodding to other people and follows common agreements.

Yea yea

[midwaybear]

Midway what is your puppy read? You never spoke about it.

I thought he was townie early on, but I would vote him in LYLO most likely if it was me/you/him.

[midwaybear]

this is still such a weird post to me. I do not get it. if he thinks IV is scummy, why is he voting Ydrasse?

Probably because I wanted Ydrasse to flip scum more than IV. I actually thought Ydrasse was scummy(somewhat) and not really for IV beforehand.
I guess I didn't really push Ydrasse that much. That is true. She wasn't even that scummy compared to Dunn, so forgive me for that.

[midwaybear]

this game stresses me out

Why? You said that we got one mislynch left and you don't receive major suspicion. As replacement you didn't invest that much in to this game, so you don't have much to lose. The only disaster that could happen for you would be elimination of bulletproof traitor.

She has put in effort though. And you last sentence is just super bad faith.

[midwaybear]

why not? I was happy because she was the first scum I voted and helped hang.

[midwaybear]

if not you, then I agree that puppy is scum.

[midwaybear]

midway come explain why u're positioning urself to launch me after fidg flips as town.

Not really. I just townread battle mage so logically, I would be voting you in Lylo.

[midwaybear]

Can you not with your ATE? My vote is still on fidget...

[midwaybear]

Midway, you said you were gonna potentially do iso's, did that happen? If so, anything useful that you found?

I read through BM's ISO and I found it to be pretty townie. I pointed out a quote where he unvoted and then instantly revoted, and it didn't seem necessary for scum to do.
Basically, I think we hang puppy, fidget in either order and win.

[midwaybear]

Then puppy is going to do more ATE and I’ll feel bad...

[midwaybear]

I also can't believe that the cute puppy is being accused of emotional manipulation

bad dog

[midwaybear]

well there was a gunsmith

[midwaybear]

why does it matter if scum suspected vig or not?

[midwaybear]

midway hasn't done a towny thing

I don't remember a single game where I was ever a big townread.

I think I'm still leaning towards Fidget, but I am ready to vote whoever ready2rock decides on.

[midwaybear]

AYYYYYYY
GG

[midwaybear]

I wasn't even sure because you were really townie. You were swaying me towards puppy, but he did a good job holding one.
The only thing that I found scummy about blair was that she revoked intent to hammer on Ydrasse, and I felt her explanation was a bit WIFOMy. I think scum played well and we got sorta lucky heehee.

[midwaybear]

First LYLO!
i had a dream where BM was scum
yikes

[midwaybear]

I think it's you. You think it's Kerset. Kerset thinks it's me.
Wonderful. I think we should take our time. Why would we "lightning"?
Oh yeah fidget. That was pretty cruel. Sorry though.

[midwaybear]

Maybe you should have fought harder for the kerset hang. You weren't even voting at the end of the day.

[midwaybear]

I am here. We can have a productive discussion...
I am quite doubtful now. I could go either way.

[midwaybear]

Its cool that you have no interest in argumentation your own reads.

bruh stop roasting me

[midwaybear]

puppy, you didn't even really defend fidget in the end...

[midwaybear]

I would not consider 964, 966, 970, 971 to be defending fidget. Those were your last 4 posts.

[midwaybear]

If you're going to go down that road, I really don't think 3 scum vs 7 town was ever going to be a viable setup in the first place? If I really thought that MG was our traitor, then I probably would have just known when he claimed to be a mafia goon.
I'm not really going to bother with you about the Fidget stuff. I'll be looking at D1 and D2, and then maybe D3. I can see a townie being genuinely unsure.

[midwaybear]

If I was bussing Ydrasse, I would not really be despaired...
I would be more jovial.

[midwaybear]

Also, I'm not really the type of person to do wallposts in general. If I was, my title probably wouldn't be Mafia Scum.
I'm not sure why I was doing it in the beginning, but maybe I'll try to do them more.

[midwaybear]

which avoid argues and negative emotions

i keep trying to say more and nobody engages with me! it's hard being this obvtown when the rest of the town is having meaningless discussions that don't go anywhere and nobody cares about my opinion

you can scumread me if you want, i'm tired of this game and not sure how much im going to fight it

spent the whole game posting against a lurkbase, talking to blank walls, then having to compromise because nobody's around to work things out. think i played a bad day 1 but that was over a month ago now. not going to hash it all out again at the finish. w/e

i really regret launching dunn now. why am i even posting if all my reads get ignored until lurkers and subs come in at the last minute? u guys have been too much work this game, it's like trying to stand on jello. graveyard, here i come, sorry i wasn't as obvtown as i thought!

[midwaybear]

he even said sorry in 909

i even said sorry in 909

mindmeld real or fake

[midwaybear]

one of you is scum, and I am no closer to finding out who...

[midwaybear]

The problem is that you are trying to find evidence to prove your conclusion of mid being town, rather then looking for evidence to determine this conclusion.

Hm that was also my gameplan. I wanted to convince myself that BM/Kerset was town, so I could have confidence in voting puppy. I think I'm going to take a more holistic approach though and maybe go through some isos later.
It's just words rn.

[midwaybear]

Mid if I was scum I'd vote with kerset against you and win. Game would be over

not that simple. Kerset would probably get suspicious if you tried to get her to vote me...

[midwaybear]

What do you mean by that?

[midwaybear]

probably going to vote you puppy
any last words?

[midwaybear]

Fine. I'm just going to skim thru both of your isos to see if there is anything that screams town. Whoever has less gets my vote.

[midwaybear]

Mod

can we please get a 12 hour extension or something?

this is townie because scum BM probably tries to get dunnstral hangs or ydrasse risks cc?

[midwaybear]

this could be a quick win!

[midwaybear]

still not sure why scum BM just chooses to unvote and then revote a few minutes after.

[midwaybear]

"Yeah ur town Fidget but ummm I'm gonna have to kill ya"

oops sorry

[midwaybear]

ugh why did we ever launch fidget?

[midwaybear]

I would vote for kerset, but I just don't get the backup bulletproof claim. Setup of gunsmith, 1-shot vig, backup bulletproof vs goon, 1-S BP scum seems somewhat townsided. This is because after vig claims shot and nobody claims bulletproof, scum is basically outed. In the case that scum claims bulletproof, then backup BP claims and it sets up a 1v1 situation which is always townsided. Add on to that, the fact that town gains a bulletproof as a result of scum dying? Doesn't seem right to me.
So I would be HIGHLY surprised if there was a scum bulletproof combine with backup town bulletproof.
Now if there is a red herring of backup BP, that just makes a weird setup with 3 pseudo confirmed townies with potential to clear more against 2 scum. That is quite townsided IMO.
The first of these potential setups just has super weird interactions between town power and scum power because it renders the 1-S BP scum useless because their only hope in survival is to claim town BP.
The second setup is just quite townsided IMO. When one designs a setup, they probably don't account for PR doubt? 3 PRs vs. PRless scum doesn't seem very fun.
So Umlaut, if you really put a backup BP as a red herring, it really made an impact on the game. Good job, but ugh then.
Puppy, you've probably changed my mind.
Intent to vote kerset. I'll give her 12 hours to reply.

[midwaybear]

Yeah you should vote her.

[midwaybear]

bruh puppy where you at?

[midwaybear]

just hope puppy isn't scum and then ill cross

[midwaybear]

kerset, I'm just trying to make the best choice in lylo
if you're town please unvote.

[midwaybear]

The best part of this is that scum even doesn't know my role, so alignment doesn't change the way you look at setup spec.

I don't understand this at all.

[midwaybear]

I wanted to see if puppy was going to be opportunistic lol
it's bad play to not let you respond. Work with me here.

[midwaybear]

I gave you 5 days with presumption of innocence, it was enough. You just make up lies as you go.

ok then we lost if you are town.

[midwaybear]

The best part of this is that scum even doesn't know my role, so alignment doesn't change the way you look at setup spec.

I don't understand this at all.

still waiting for an answer to this.

[midwaybear]

Both scum and town don't know entire setup. If you ask scum to speculate what kind of power is in person X ownership they are going to give you similar answer as town, because they both simply don't know such things.

i mean you either are truly a backup bulletproof town or just some mafia role that I don't really care about. I don't see how that invalidates my setup spec?
If you are town, you NEED to unvote. I get how that might dissuade you, but it is facts.

[midwaybear]

VOTE: Kerset
hooray!

[midwaybear]

I actually played a good game because I was scumreading BM D1!
time to convince puppy

[midwaybear]

puppy, your gut is correct here, but feel free to take as much time as you need!

[midwaybear]

I'm pretty sure kerset's plan would just to let me vote you because I had verbally expressed desire to do so before.

[midwaybear]

oh i guess I sorta see what you mean by that. Well I don't think she's been trying to convince anyone this LYLO, mostly lurking.
Just sheep my setup spec and we win. I know you are hesitant here, so I will try to control my impatience lol

[midwaybear]

If you look at my setup spec quote, I am actually hesitant about voting you for your claim at first, but then I realize it's probably scummy. You have never refuted it.

[midwaybear]

Though maybe still not what scum would do when there's even a chance midway would vote me still?

probably was feeling the pressure and got overdefensive
Also, look at my reaction to Fidget's fake scum outing. Does that really look fake?

[midwaybear]

AYYYYYYY
GG

I wasn't even sure because you were really townie. You were swaying me towards puppy, but he did a good job holding one.
The only thing that I found scummy about blair was that she revoked intent to hammer on Ydrasse, and I felt her explanation was a bit WIFOMy. I think scum played well and we got sorta lucky heehee.

What do you want me to do right now? Towncase myself or try to scumcase Kerset/BM?

[midwaybear]

oops didn't mean to quote those, but I feel like it would be a little hard to fake the second thing.

[midwaybear]

Because I recognized that I may have been slightly lucky in a scenario with scum Fidget. I wasn't bragging because I truly thought she played a good game as scum and wanted to respect that.
Not with scum you. I correctly scumread BM early D1 too!

I actually played a good game because I was scumreading BM D1!

[midwaybear]

Sure, gotta go soon though. I think one reason to call me town is for my votepark on Ydrasse for the majority of D1. This is because
a) I don't really like to bus as scum, so I probably wouldn't even consider voting her in the first place that early(recall that I was the first vote on her)
Newbie 1998 and Newbie 2018 are my only two scumgames here, and I did not bus really.
b) I feel like I would be more self conscious as scum and not keep my vote on her for the whole day. I probably would have moved my vote around a couple of times to make it look like I was doing stuff. I think I unvoted because she claimed cop and revoted after IV cced.
c) This is sort of a stretch, but as you know, the game was quite inactive. Maybe this is hindsight bias, but the Ydrasse wagon built up really quickly without much great reasons. This is probably because she wasn't that scummy, but also because the gamestate allowed such wagons to form. I honestly don't know if I would have known this at the time, but it's something to consider.

[midwaybear]

Meantime each time midway says ANYTHING. You just greet him with open hands and discuss with attentiveness.

Lies.

Now you ask me to waste my time and make a case? You will just ignore it like everything else.

It's LYLO. He would be a bad puppy to just ignore you (still should vote you though ). So another exaggerated lie.

Kerset, you thinking me asking for towncred is scummy is very shallow thinking. If I was scum, I would not open the day blatantly begging for towncreds. I would probably just let people do their own thing, and maybe help interpret the wagons.
I was suspecting Ydrasse in quotes 66 and 124, but as people have said, I don't always explain my line of thought. As I said before, I found her scummy for randomly scumreading Mafia Goon and me.
D1 midway also made short posts. I gave up on wallposting. That is cherrypicking.
Also, me not scumhunting is not scummy. No one else was really doing it, and I was in a large theme game at the time that sapped my will to play this game. Now, I am locked in and will do whatever it takes to make YOU the launch today.
Honestly, you really haven't been scumhunting at all. You've just been calling me scum for the same reasons you called Dunnstral scum D2.
Still haven't refuted anything I've said about the setup spec and in 1104.

[midwaybear]

On D2,D3 right after your partner got launched you gave up and barely posted.

what about BM who basically lurked out D2? All he did was weakly push Nosferatu in two posts lol

I already said why me not pushing Ydrasse was townie in 1104. You also have not addressed my pro setup spec that pratically outs you as scum. Also, quite suspicious how you hadn't posted for over 2 days and then when I start to suspect you you're back. I think you were just lurking waiting for me to self destruct tbh
Address.
my.
posts.

pedit: oh finally

[midwaybear]

Now if there is a red herring of backup BP, that just makes a weird setup with 3 pseudo confirmed townies with potential to clear more against 2 scum. That is quite townsided IMO.

So backup BP has to be false, because it a pseudo confirmed town role? How am i confirmed? Where is my potential clear? If my role is a red herring then there is no way for me to confirm it.
Your theory is that on N2 i decided to claim unconfirmable role, so this setup could look weirder? What is the advantage in that? Entertainment of audience?

Yes, I already explained how backup BP to scum bulletproof makes NO sense which means either your role is red herring or you are lying.
If your role is red herring, then setup is 3 TPR vs 2 goon which is not fun at all for mafia.
My theory is that you just decided to fakeclaim for some random reason, and it backfired.

[midwaybear]

You just take my every post and say: No this is not true.

I mean you are scum, so of course what you say has anti-town intent.

[midwaybear]

so you are just a named townie?
don't believe it for a second

[midwaybear]

Sure, gotta go soon though. I think one reason to call me town is for my votepark on Ydrasse for the majority of D1. This is because
a) I don't really like to bus as scum, so I probably wouldn't even consider voting her in the first place that early(recall that I was the first vote on her)
Newbie 1998 and Newbie 2018 are my only two scumgames here, and I did not bus really.
b) I feel like I would be more self conscious as scum and not keep my vote on her for the whole day. I probably would have moved my vote around a couple of times to make it look like I was doing stuff. I think I unvoted because she claimed cop and revoted after IV cced.
c) This is sort of a stretch, but as you know, the game was quite inactive. Maybe this is hindsight bias, but the Ydrasse wagon built up really quickly without much great reasons. This is probably because she wasn't that scummy, but also because the gamestate allowed such wagons to form. I honestly don't know if I would have known this at the time, but it's something to consider.

You don't address any of this.
You just say I never hard push Ydrasse and I explained why here.

[midwaybear]

and switch to other wagon once your partner got actual votes....

your scumbuddy chose to fakeclaim 2-shot cop

[midwaybear]

Puppy, Kerset is frozen.
I have dismantled her main argument regarding my behavior around Ydrasse in 1104. Additionally, her only response to my setup spec is a named townie should not be considered town power which is sorta false and isn’t even a complete refutation.
You know what to do here. Let’s end this one and win it for the town!

[midwaybear]

1-shot Vig + Gunsmith + Protective + Powerless trap role. 4 PTR with your math. We even got the same number of players
Your argument is that 1-shot Vig + Gunsmith + Named is overly Townsided? You insist that this game has to be just 1-shot Vig + Gunsmith?

Scum had good power roles in that game. Scum has a 1 shot BP this game(weaker). I know you are a 1 shot Bulletproof scum Kerset.
Umlaut doesn't put named townies in his setups. You gave up pushing me as scum with Ydrasse(lol I unvote because she claim cop), so you choose to attack my setup spec.
Puppy, if I'm scum, why do I react to Kerset's vote like that. Why don't I immediately cross vote and only vote when you show up? Kerset is also scum because of her LYLO play. She has literally lurked and done nothing until I start suspecting her. That's textbook scum. Compare that to me. I'm actually showing nervousness about voting, and I'm also trying to solve. She didn't.
If you are going to vote me, at least let me do some ATE.

[midwaybear]

VOTE: kerset

do we win

BIG TOWN ENERGY
WE WON PUPPY
I AM TOWN

[midwaybear]

I'm town lol. I wouldn't troll like this if I was scum. Also, if I was scum, it would probably be really obvious.
WE WON

[midwaybear]

yaaayyyyy
what a game!

[midwaybear]

bro I'm town. I promise
we did it!
I think he'll log on later because he's normally around at this time. idk though

[midwaybear]

i mean midway's iso does look like crap but

VOTE: Battle Mage

I hope I can post more tomorrow. I think I will VOTE: Ydrasse.

when ur first two serious votes hit the scumteam

[midwaybear]

yeah I only thought it was Kerset after thinking about her claim
as I said before, scum were quite townie this game. Well played lol
puppy, why did you end up voting Kerset?

[midwaybear]

good job to your gut then! I see that you will grow up to be a healthy dog

[midwaybear]

epic win!!!!!!!!

oops kerset was just a goon
whatever LOL
GG

[midwaybear]

great effort kerset!
did I catch kerset for the wrong reasons or did the claim actually not fit?

[midwaybear]

sorry im not very good at scum yet

same

[midwaybear]

we're even now >:)

true true

[midwaybear]

great effort kerset!
did I catch kerset for the wrong reasons or did the claim actually not fit?

I wonder what would northy say about it. She is friendly, so i will try to summon her.

That would be helpful.

[midwaybear]

I can't replicate my town game as scum(yet).