Let’s talk about blacklists

[Nahdia]

ego

[Nahdia]

i have noticed more issues with this more recently. in Newbie 2016, which i just ran to completion, I had someone replace in only to find out they knew they were on another player in the game's blacklist. That second player ended up replacing out.

Ultimately I don't think it makes sense to force replace people in order to enforce blacklists. That said, I do wonder if it might be a positive change if it was made standard for moderators to ask their players to submit blacklists when a game starts, that way you can avoid the problem of one player replacing in causing another to dip out feeling cheated.

[Nahdia]

I just... eh, I don't know. Maybe my logic isn't consistent here. But my impulse was to ask the player "can you tough it out?", since it seemed like the other person was willing to do so.

Like, if you could PROVE that the person replacing in is doing it specifically to harass the player with the blacklist, yes, absolutely force replace them. But that kind of intent seems hard to prove short of them outright saying it.

[Nahdia]

I just... eh, I don't know. Maybe my logic isn't consistent here. But my impulse was to ask the player "can you tough it out?", since it seemed like the other person was willing to do so.

I guess I disagree that the “tougher” should be catered for > the “weaker”. I also think these are not particularly useful terms to use in talking about it as I think it’s less about “can I tough this out?” and more “is this person inevitably going to provoke me into the point where I cross a line?”

i mean, i agree. i guess im sort of just erring more towards the passive "allow conditions that make someone need to replace out" as opposed to the active "force replace someone". trolly problem logic. but it does feel bad to have to tell a player that just replaced in, something i consider a gracious act, that im actually going to be kicking them out, especially if theyve already begun reading through the game. like, there's always the possibility that they just didn't realize a player who had them blacklisted was in the game. i dont always read the full playerlist of games i offer to replace into (tho tbf, im not blacklisted by anyone as far as im aware).

but to ircher's point, if accepting one player as a replacement is just going to result in another player tapping out, it's really no more burdensome to not take the first player and keep seeking a different replacement. in fact if anything it's preferable from the perspective that replacing fewer slots is better for game health.

[Nahdia]

The problem comes that if someone has no respect for another player or for site norms surrounding blacklists, then the official moderation policy means that there is not a sufficiently strong site rule basis for enforcement, which is exactly what is needed in cases where blacklists are being violated.

i think that mods should be willing to enforce players' blacklists, in a first come first serve sort of fashion

suppose we have player A and player B, who always get in a thing if they're in the same game, and A blacklists B

if A signs up for a game first, and then B signs up, A should be able to tell the mod to keep B out of the game.

many mods do this, it's called WotC or Wot1 based on how many people they need to hear from to reject an /in. I don't usually advertise that I offer it but if my game were in sign-ups and someone were to tell me that someone who signed up after them is a person they have blacklisted and it seems they have good reason for it, I'm not above rejecting the later in.

[Nahdia]

i dont always read the full playerlist of games i offer to replace into

honestly, if you're considering replacing in, you should rly do yourself a favor and read the full playerlist to make sure there isn't anyone you know you're going to get into a conflict in. If you replaced in without knowing who is in that playerlist, and you find out that someone who you will start conflict in is in that playerlist, then thats your fault

tbf, i cant think of any players that would make me refuse to join a playerlist. i guess there are a couple i conflict with a bit more often than average, but none that i just outright wouldnt play with that i can think of.