Open 785: Secrets of the Anuket Topaz [Game over!]

[Ydrasse]

i sure hope our trip to port elizabeth goes well!

VOTE: Homura

[Ydrasse]

i sure hope our trip to port elizabeth goes well!

VOTE: Homura

well everyone's currently voting to brutally murder people in cold blood so you may want to readjust your expectations

would you like to join Eva and i for the midnight buffet?

Eva's currently trying to microwave some pizza in our cabin but she hasn't realised yet that i switched it out for a safe

~Eve

yes, delightful truly as i shirk my duties to this boat for the next few days within my own cabin. i would hope there’s no olives on that pizza.

when the sea rocks me awake to an awful hangover i’ll pick back up on my tasks.

(i’m v/la until sunday 7/5 @ lovely mod)

[Ydrasse]

alas, locked up in my cabin with this bottle leaves me with little time for my fellow crewmen. also, my connection is spotty.

in a game like this, i think that a scum player would be more emboldened to be jokey and outwardly ~~ scummy. so long as their team is good and they don’t get back to back eliminated, i don’t think it’s impossible for a scum player to be silly and lighthearted and jester about, banking on the fact that it’ll be dismissed as someone being fun and generally NAI.

after all, if people are inclined to dismiss it and two days go by and things wrap around to where the town as a collective is going, “huh, what if all this stuff was just a bold scum player after all?”, it doesn’t matter if they’re already out on their merry way escaping.

dunno. i think that playing it up so much thus far has done anything but set off alarm bells within my head. a setup like this imo rewards wifomy play moreso than others by virtue of scum having the escape mechanic where so long as they can survive enough through some chaos they’re good.

VOTE: Craig Pelton

-

@RCEnigma: what exactly struck you to follow down that line of setup speculation? it seems fairly... illogical, i guess, fmpov to think that an endgame like that could occur with mafia killing mafia while the other escapes.

[Ydrasse]

hello i have finally decided to try and dig my claws into this game but it has in fact meant the claws ended up in my brain. it's late here but i'll be here before work tomorrow.

@rc: can you walk me through your read on eevee. there seems to be a Moment (238/239) where you're speculating that they're scum/on a specific team and then throw them into a no-elimination pile in 262. what caused that turnaround?

@eevee: is meta the sole reason that snowblaze gets a little scum ping for having reads so early on? (145) you liked when umlaut provided a reads list that had little to substantiate it. (101) so i guess i don't see how the situations distinguish themselves from one another save for the meta...?

@fredrick: what reasons do you think i would have for not posting here as much? (303)


p-edit: i was already trying to read through this game pls

[Ydrasse]

...
@fredrick: what reasons do you think i would have for not posting here as much? (303)
...

I am not going to give you the reasons I thought up so that you can use them. Give us your reasons.

honestly, hearing that makes it seem like there's not a whole lot of reason behind it.

i wasn't active here because it's my first non-newbie game and i find it daunting to tackle a new setup and concepts. it's way easier for me to offer content to games that i have been active in before i went v/la and that i am comfortable with the setups for. there's less i feel i have to go through and think about in those than here where save for a brief in the moment thoughts i haven't been able to get too deeply into reading through until last night when i was up to the task.

[Ydrasse]

that’s fair!

honestly i don’t blame you because i feel the inactive slots might have scum who don’t know how to integrate into the town; given that the wagons so far are all fragmented, it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s mainly town players voting and reaching for smaller scummy things to push upon with lack of actual content from the absent and theoretically scum spots.

[Ydrasse]

honestly, my vote's been here for lack of a better place to put it atm. i'm more at ease with menalque as of the past few pages and i agree with the sentiment to like, start consolidating a wagon in order to breathe some sort of life into this game. i honestly don't feel one way or another about the holden wagon.

like i was thinking the same thing: lot of people just died off after a spurt of activity at the start and being in this game feels like a purgatory where we can't get everything done. skimming through his iso, though, i'm not like... really sold by the idea that he vanished because he was happy to coast for now? dunno, he left on a dramatic note implying there were some greater reasons to keep his vote on the slot which would have been nice to know now but, /shrug.

@menalque: who else do u consider an acceptable wagon atm.

[Ydrasse]

i trust whatever fredrick is doing right now with his voting methods. they're all over the place but it inspires joy.

menalque's efforts to provide cpr to this sluggish game also inspire joy.

i don't like either of the main wagons right now. rce kind of feels like the inevitable "yeah we can all throw our votes here for the sake of a wagon" vote without anyone like... thinking too hard about it. also it feels at odds with the idea that there's a lot of lurking scum which has been tossed around quite a bit. i get not wanting to vote on slots that don't have a lot of content/none at all but meh. i feel that the votes on holden have the potential to be people trying to follow up with this idea of coasting/inactive/etc etc scum while trying to get rid of a fairly towny voice under this premise? idk.

VOTE: raya36

can you pls provide me with a general progression of ur read on holden raya ty.

[Ydrasse]

Ydrasse r u trying to pocket me by just asking the exact same questions as me?

Spoiler:

get in.

no though, it's just the product of me sitting down and making myself think through this game a bit. honestly it's a bit demoralizing of an experience but i think a lot of people share that sentiment atm? so, no better way to get rid of that by... actually participating, lmao.

[Ydrasse]

exploiting my fears, how cruel. don't you have a play to put on, eevees? eevi?

regardless. i don't know why you're doubling down on your vote based off of the intentions of one like... set of posts. i had similar qualms about the logic of rce posting about that sort of thing as it felt like a barebones "look at me, i am helpful for town look what i have considered!" and that the logic wasn't a path i'd go down. this just feels like stubbornness over one set of posts, though; you have other reasons that you've sr'd rce so why make this one the hill to die upon?

VOTE: snowblaze

baaaaa. yeah, posting reads as snowblaze is doing doesn't seem to be doing much to propel forward the gamestate and is the low-energy sort of "look at me i am here and helping" i think makes sense for this setup. lotta questions spread out to different places in an effort to integrate.

[Ydrasse]

i've seen them and i'm not particularly sold honestly, which in conjunction with the votes that were slowly trickling onto rcenigma for the sake of a wagon without tooooo much thought behind it makes me leery that it's easy to scapegoat onto him.

[Ydrasse]

snowblaze: if you're town, who do you think the scum on your wagon are right now? in the absence of scumreads as of 415, does anyone now stand out to you in particular?

i know you said you don't wanna feel bad about this wagon/game in general and i get it, but it feels like you're accepting it without offering much of anything where i feel this would be the place where you'd be like... most informed/able to offer scumreads.

[Ydrasse]

VOTE: mohab500

yeah, sure. the lack of promised content and general... confusion as a whole about things i could see coming from scum. my brain likes to not trust dumbtells anyways. i like that snowblaze offered perspective and if i offered her the chance to talk her way out of the elimination, oops. is refreshing to see that sort of analysis from the slot.

this vote feels a lot less like a “because we need to have a wagon” vote than others fmpov, too. even if it’s something pretty quickly arranged in the last day or so.

[Ydrasse]

i'm not convinced right now that snow is the better vote tbh? like, she gets flack for having these sort of wishywashy reads that aren't a particularly strong stance, and then under pressure she... keeps giving wishywashy reads? like, fmpov 617 is just throwing out names of "yeah, i tr this and that" and then when she goes down the few people that she doesn't throw out a townread on... she gets four nulls/sorta town/towny? at best she gets "pings in both directions" in 618.

i mean like, unless snowblaze is just being that blatant i don't see a world where a scum player gets that much pressure on them and goes "yep, self preserving. don't mind me, voting again for self preservation" with like... no true push on anyone or anything? no scumreads to come of it? like, i'd imagine there'd be at least something there for her to go after in an effort to appear revitalized towards the game, but... no, there's nothing there.

i'm happy to vote her tomorrow but right now with the lack of nothing at all from mohab i feel better having my vote here.

[Ydrasse]

@ydrasse I just don’t really get why those things make her not scummy. Like if pressure leads to content production but it’s a struggle for scum!snow to come up with realistic scumreads, why would that not manifest as coming up with more detailed but still very non-commital reads?

Also, the self-preserving thing is super null in a situation like this. If I’m town then I’m gonna vote for self-pres even if I think the three person is town because, hey, I might be wrong about them but I know what my role PM is. If I’m scum I’m gonna vote them cause I don’t wanna die. And do you really think snow has enough traction in this game to lead a wagon on anyone new here? Besides which, she doesn’t even have a scumresd to lead said wagon on

fmpov it's like... continuing to offer non-commital reads is a very overtly scummy thing to do? you're refusing to take a stance and if snowblaze were scum i'd imagine she'd try to scrounge up something of a solidified scumread on something. despite not being able to start a new wagon — which i think a snowblaze of either alignment recognizes would not pan out — i guess i just see it as a place where it would be of more benefit to vaguely scumread someone instead of saying "this person is towny, i lean towny on this person" over and over and push herself into a place where she votes

only

out of self preservation.

i recognize that self-preservation is relatively NAI, but it's the fact that she hasn't come up with that scumread yet that makes me townread her more than mohab whose content is well. yeah.

given that we're getting a replacement though for mohab, hopefully it'll be easier to parse that slot. right now though i'm mohab > snow tho.

[Ydrasse]

yeah... at this point i feel that i don't really have a lot i can say. i think that snowblaze isn't as likely to flip scum as maemuki. my vote's staying, blah blah. i just want this day to be over honestly so we can keep moving forward with some new information.

though i wasn't around when there were some votes on me a while ago, i don't understand why there were a few posts going hard to bat for me when i wasn't around.

[Ydrasse]

[Ydrasse]

Maemuki (7):

Eevee

, Raya36,

Snowblaze

, Ydrasse, Something_Smart,

Titus

,

Umlaut

Snowblaze (6): RCEnigma, Montosh, Almost50,

Fredrick A Campbell

, Menalque, Maemuki

[Ydrasse]

reading through almost50's iso:

i think that if all three scum were on snowblaze, rcenigma/almost50 would make sense? throughout his iso, almost50 makes it clear that he Really Wants To Vote The Mohabslot (659, 794, 811 though it's the mildest imo of these three instances) but never does. 821, too, wherein almost asks someone to consider scum!mohab but... never like, makes any meaningful efforts to push anything there?

that, and almost actively tried to dismantle the scumreads/points against rcenigma and commited to a hard tr on rc. 513, 514, 542, 545, 559, 566, 569, to name a few. a lot of his iso is spent in an effort of defending his tr who admittedly doesn't look too good now, having been a vote on someone who is now confirmed town.

just seems... performative, in the way they avoid voting mohab and instead vote snow every single time it's brought into question what he should think/do. so yeah.

VOTE: almost50

will read through the other non-confirmed people right now but i started here and i don't see a reason not to put my vote here atm.

[Ydrasse]

hi, sorry, you'll get more for me tomorrow. :< but i'm content with where my vote is right now. a50 feels defeated and opting to assume everyone will twist his words the right way just seems like a way to pre-emptively disarm any criticism that comes his way. in general i sort of think that the unconfirmed players going "oh, i can't do anything/it's up to the townies" (of which a50 has only said the former) is an easy way to lay low and not say anything that beckons scrutiny. /shrug

that being said, i'll bite @a50: regarding your questions in 1020, it could've been more beneficial to your partner to confirm him, could've been meant to sow doubt on the snow wagon, etc etc. given that it's a team game i don't think the confirmations focus on the scope of your gameplay alone?

also i'm gonna be real maybe it's because i'm tired but looking at the talk about what your ~best plan is just feels like a bunch of words i'm supposed to look at and take at face value that you'd do as scum which i'm not doing right now. you can say what you think is the best plan and then just... not do it, lmao.

[Ydrasse]

honestly i am too tired to think Too Hard about this right now but a50's posts made me feel like i was reading snowblaze's d1 posts when all the pressure was on her just with... less oomph to my heart.

looking through it briefly i don't find montosh's catchup/reread upon joining really impressive wrt mohab/mae. a lot of saying that mohab/mae doesn't look great, etc, that could be leaving room to vote/push there if need be. however, i can see a pretty natural progression on snowblaze from it? goes from agreeing with some things such as reads, etc, to scumreading and settling the vote there. it doesn't really seem forced despite also thinking mae wasn't great throughout and i think i'd be least likely to want to place my vote here today from the options of the snowblaze wagon. :>

721 729 779 782 for the catchup.

other than that, i like montosh's posts from today i think. entirely Unbothered by the fact that they're in a bad place (voting snowblaze d1) and not even acknowledging it makes me a tiny bit ?? but i think that's more because i expect anyone, regardless of alignment, to go "oops lol" to some degree. not a big deal though that's just me being a weirdo, wearing my stupid hat.

[Ydrasse]

My VCA says no on Menalque A50.

Why? I know you said in a previous post that:

basically in 1.7 the wagon on Menalque is yucky.

What didn't you like? Or does Menalque just not fit into a scum grouping?

Melanque is not scum. That becomes clear at EoD. The wagon in 1.7 has three people voting Melanque. A50 slot Montosh slot and Ydrasse. None of those are conftown. So yeah a yuck wagon.

Ydrasse is particularly telling, and possibly a better vote. He moves from voting Homura to joining a wagon with him. The other option was Mohab, who is the dead scum.

A50, want to vote Ydrasse with me?

...i don't follow how you're analyzing my votes. my vote on homura/a50 was an rvs vote from the beginning of the game, and the time that we shared a wagon i did not join the wagon when he was on it. a50's vote on snowblaze came after mine, and then i moved it to mohab/mae.

[Ydrasse]

A50, want to vote Ydrasse with me?

VOTE: ydrasse

As a side not (that is totally UNrelated): @Ydrasse: How do you pronounce that name of yours?

id-rass, though i will also accept ee-drass. (phonetic spelling eludes me.)

[Ydrasse]

fmpov, a50, it feels kind of like the entire... demotivation is an act? you get your pep back in your step briefly when someone offers you support/an alternative to the pressure on you and then fall back into being like "well, i can't do anything" mentality again until another option perks up.

[Ydrasse]

@a50: i can see you’re getting frustrated by people wanting to see more from you, and i think the issue isn’t that you’re not making an effort in general, it’s moreso (for me) that the efforts you’re actively making aren’t ones that are meaningful towards finding scum. you’re on the defensive for obvious reasons but the bulk of your d2 has been focused on self-defense and the two votes you’ve placed haven’t come with a lot of reasoning? (unless i’m missing something on mobile and if that’s the case i’m the clown).

so, that being said:

- why did you change your vote from mena to me?
- can you give like, idk. even just a general quick rundown of the other nonconfirmed players so we can see where your head is at a bit more clearly beyond the defensive?

[Ydrasse]

My VCA says no on Menalque A50.

Why? I know you said in a previous post that:

basically in 1.7 the wagon on Menalque is yucky.

What didn't you like? Or does Menalque just not fit into a scum grouping?

Melanque is not scum. That becomes clear at EoD. The wagon in 1.7 has three people voting Melanque. A50 slot Montosh slot and Ydrasse. None of those are conftown. So yeah a yuck wagon.

Ydrasse is particularly telling, and possibly a better vote. He moves from voting Homura to joining a wagon with him. The other option was Mohab, who is the dead scum.

A50, want to vote Ydrasse with me?

...i don't follow how you're analyzing my votes. my vote on homura/a50 was an rvs vote from the beginning of the game, and the time that we shared a wagon i did not join the wagon when he was on it. a50's vote on snowblaze came after mine, and then i moved it to mohab/mae.

titus please explain ur vca on me again.

[Ydrasse]

i'll reread mena + respond to a50 in like ~2-3 hours. :>

[Ydrasse]

- why did you change your vote from mena to me?
- can you give like, idk. even just a general quick rundown of the other nonconfirmed players so we can see where your head is at a bit more clearly beyond the defensive?

Ok, let me restate my stance for one last time: I -personally- believe the elimination pool should be between you, me and Menalque. Now let's disregard my "TMI" of my slot's alignment for a minute. ANY

spectator

of the game would put me and Menalque as the only two options today. BUT, Titus says Menalque is Town and it's you & me (and regardless of your alignment you know that ism't the case, so -at least- we can agree on that). So, me/Menalque from my own PoV (as a spectator with no spoilers) or you (based on Titus VCA, which I ignored the last game and managed to lose her that game)

As for the rest: RCE is TOWN. Raya is 95% Town. Montosh & S_S have a few things going in their favour and other things that could point to them being scum. In other words, neither of them is outside their scumrange, but neither is actually scummy enough.

Out in another format:

TOWN
RCE
Raya
Montosh/S_S
Ydrasse
Menalque
SCUM

(and I've taken the liberty of removing my own name because this is MY read list, so I should factor in my own knowledge, but feel free to replace me with you from your PoV)

The thing is we only need ONE MORE SCUM ELIMINATION to win. So, I have 3 options:

1- Eliminate in you/Menalque and actually hit scum = Game Over! I don't need to look for the third scum
2- Eliminate in you/Menalque and they flip green = I'd still want to eliminate the other of you two
3- Eat rope myself = I am no longer in the game and I do not need to find scum anymore

Now assuming both you and Menalque are town I guess I eat rope next in the second scenario, so I won't have the time to find out who's scum because the game would be over.

I cannot reconsider my reads without another flip now. All we're going to do is run in circles, pointing fingers at each other, and end up where we started.

I will admit this though: Your approach towards me and being willing to engage me didn't strike me as something scum would do at this point, but then I looked back and remembered you are already voting me, so it felt a bit odd.

i think it would be dumb not to engage you honestly. my reads are not infalliable and i'd rather talk out stuff and see where your head is at regarding the gamestate if i am wrong. you're still my preferred elimination today regardless.

like, there's just this certain thing reading through your iso that gets to me and it's the attempts to reinforce that you are a Town Player, Too that stick out to me to the point that it feels unnatural. 1097 and 1104 namely stuck out to me upon reading them; i guess it's a tonal thing moreso than content but it feels like a concerted effort on your part to speak in a way that implicitly conveys your ~towniness.

and, that being said, i find your most recent post to contrast your reads? 1197 you convey fmpov a certain amount of confidence in your reads? there's something to be said for the strength of your townreads and you don't seem to waver in them/the progression you'd eliminate through despite saying in 1266 you were having trouble finding any scum confidently.

(also wrt 1266, while i appreciate saying 'yeah we should read through d1 to scumhunt' here it feels like an effort to deflect from your play d2 which is to me, at least, as i've said so many times now i feel self-defensive without much progression in the way of scumhunting save for agreeing with the TownBloc and throwing votes those ways/structuring your reads around it, if that makes sense lmao)

in general i feel that i haven't seen a lot of progression from you as a whole this game? at best fmpov i suppose the "i could vote mohab or i could vote snow" post in 794 suggests some amount of consideration, as the bottom of this post could, but in the end it feels like it mirrors the same opinions that you've put out the entirety of this game.

honestly at this point it's one of you or menalque fmpov. i feel that the latter's push on snow throughout a majority of d1 and defence of things like mohab's ~~townslips is just too... overt? like, i had a theory that he was just straight-up scumclaiming at the very beginning of the game but like, unless i am in fact the fool i feel that he's banking on everyone dismissing how upfront a lot of his play was (wouldn't lead snow wagon, wouldn't defend mohab, etc etc) it feels more likely that the sort of wishy-washy defence of voting either snow/mohab from you is scum. also, i tr the immediate defensiveness/awareness of how bad he looks because... yeah. i think it's dumb to hope no one is gonna bring it up honestly/not be thinking about it. lmao. in the position of a town!mena who led on snow for a lot of d1 i too would be like, "yeah uhhhh i messed up here" without having someone shimmy their way into pushing onto me.

my winning elimination chain as it is is you > mena > s_s (because while i thought raya might've been scum at some point on d1, i feel that scum simply wouldn't put all their eggs in one basket because of the very situation of town eliminating thru the snow wagon) > rce > montosh. i'm sorry if you're town but i cannot get past like... everything you've posted at this point and i feel like i am trapped in a hell where i try to go through things and end up at the same conclusions.

[Ydrasse]

my rate of posting this game has been abysmal and i'm sorry about that.

i think that if people are unwilling to vote mena as an option to a50, i'd be fine with voting rce if only because... i can't really recall anything that they've posted today of note, and eliminating on the snowblaze wagon improves the odds. they were low in my list of people to eliminate for that because i couldn't recall anything overtly scummy today. i guess i still find the hard tr on rce from a50 odd ??? but tbqh i don't know if that implicates rce in anything fmpov moreso than a50? i guess that being quiet when there are multiple unconfirmed being pushed on/suspected ~~louder in comparison is beneficial for obvious reasons?

[Ydrasse]

montosh, why do you townread rce and then have a50 so low? looking through your like... progression/analysis of a50, there's some stuff that you think indicates a50 as town and it correlates to their hard tr on rce. in general it feels like quite a bit of the stuff you've said about a50 marks them as being townier to you (i'm referencing 1271/1272 here, but you in general Like a50 in 729 and 779 too) so i don't follow where they fell so low. is it a poe thing?

also, given how strongly you feel about mena being scum today, is there any reason that you haven't done a readthrough of their posts yet to analyze like you have a50?

[Ydrasse]

not making any sort of effort to interact or analyze me save for my votes and not the reasons i did feels like the laziest form of gamesolving and it's frustrating as hell that the votes on me stem from it or from uncomfirmeds who are like "oh, it was right last game, i am going to sheep it this game!" like, can someone actually give an explanation as to

why

my votes make me the scummiest? this is @titus who has at this point refused to offer explanation about it despite me asking because i literally don't get how the interpretation of me moving from the snowblaze wagon to maemuki wagon is scum-indicative at this point.

like, in what world do people not look at this and think "huh, that's a really lame reason" wrt the latter. like yeah, sure, i am here yelling into the void with my heels dug in on a50 but how do you look at posts like 1201 and 1273 and not consider that maybe, just maybe, that is scummier than the reasons for me which are...? my votes?

i have literally not seen anyone actually make a sincere case on me and it's just going to let scum be able to hop on my wagon and eliminate me and then say "oh, we were just sheeping the confirmeds!" when they were sheeping the bare minimum reasons for me to be eliminated today.

[Ydrasse]

VOTE: S_S

Spoiler:

i’ll be around after work.

[Ydrasse]

sorry for getting cranky last night. the push on me just feels... nyeh.

it feels kind of... reachy, i guess, for menalque to have a, presumably, ~tell on me given that i've played one scum game on here so far. and again the defaulting to "well titus's vca says it's her so it's her" again feels bad faith.

that combined with 1402 gives me the same feelings again that a50 did where it feels like... a bunch of words about how mena would approach this game for the best results if he were scum and then saying "but my actions and thoughts and posts don't show that, so don't worry, it's not me doing that."

[Ydrasse]

I don't want to pour more oil on the fire, bu ydrasse is now looking to join any wagon not-on-her. I want her to state clearly her reads on all other 6 unconfirmed players.

it's more the fact that i think 1) since being pushed more and more you seem more genuine fmpov than you did and 2) you didn't hear this from me, but i miiiiight have had tunnel goggles on that i am trying to remove.

i think that my reads haven't fluxuated much since i posted them in 1270 but:

raya, montosh
rce, s_s
a50, menalque

in which i am most confident that the two up top are town. i switched my vote to s_s because i wasn't so sure of you anymore and i really don't think that scum would go 3/3 on a wagon because that feels like a losing strategy fmpov. so, s_s felt like a safer vote while i reconsidered.

[Ydrasse]

join us on Menalque Ydrasse

also is it bad that i pronounce your name as E-drah-say?

~Eve

VOTE: menalque

no, all pronunciations are the truth!

[Ydrasse]

｡･:*:･ﾟ★,｡･:*:･ﾟ☆

~Eve

[Ydrasse]

this why i think it's just Menalque:

• hard pushed snow day 1
  
• defended Mohab as oblivious town
  
• started a Titus counterwagon against Mohab
  
• is pushing the narrative that there were 1 or 2 bussers on Maemuki

VOTE: Menalque

~Eve

Okay, but listen to me and titus tomorrow once I’ve flipped town and kill ydrasse

why though other than My Votes And Your Game Theory

[Ydrasse]

i'm actually curious of what you think the tell is now but i'll have to learn later

i dunno, i keep saying that i want more than a vca because it feels like a method that doesn't (or, in this game i guess hasn't?) taken into account anything beyond the when and where of vote placement. i get it's a vital thing to use but when people put their entire faith into it, it feels like there's not much that i can do to get them to look at everything else regarding the game.

[Ydrasse]

maybe that's more of a playstyle thing though at the end of the day. or i am just a baby still when it comes to those sort of methods of finding scum.

[Ydrasse]

i'm actually curious of what you think the tell is now but i'll have to learn later

I mean if you flip scum I’m definitely not telling you

If you flip town then I’m seeing if it’s broadly reliable for you over a few more games or not, and if it keeps being inconsistent (instead of this being a false positive) then I’ll tell you

i will simply never roll scum.

and regarding the vca stuff, honestly i'd be indignant as either alignment but it's worse this game because like... IF you are town and get mis-elimmed here, i am going to get rolled next for reasons that are objectively wrong and rigid. it just feels like there's nothing i can do either way except try to push where i think scum is and if i'm wrong, well, that effort is wasted despite my alignment because i voted at the wrong time or something.

[Ydrasse]

i thought i was supposed to be pocketing you too. i only have so much room here to hold all of you

@s_s: what's your reads list looking like?

[Ydrasse]

i thought i was supposed to be pocketing you too. i only have so much room here to hold all of you

Let it be said, I really do like you regardless of your alignment:)

[Ydrasse]

the way s_s ignored me asking for some reads just to turn around and vote me...

[Ydrasse]

ugh

[Ydrasse]

i don’t see a place where anyone is willing to flip off of me at this point.

my scum game was simply TOO STRONG sin that last one to ignore

[Ydrasse]

it’s more of a feeling that one of you OR a50 is mafia fmpov because i don’t see montosh or raya as scum. leaving rce and s_s i think id vote s_s everytime but at this point it isn’t happening

[Ydrasse]

yeah sure, give me a bit when i’m not on mobile

[Ydrasse]

Okay but can you flesh that out for me

Why do you feel that I’m scum for instance or if I’m not that A50 is?

okay so.

part of it is poe; raya and montosh aren't an active part of mine atm, and leaving you/a50/s_s/rce. of which, i feel that... s_s is most likely scum, if only because like i've said a) i refuse to think mafia is 3/3 on a wagon and b) i don't think raya is scum. (though to be fair i've not reread her in a while but i haven't had any reason to do that fmpov). by default that means it's one of you/a50/rce.

i think i've already explained enough why i sred a50 earlier on. rereading over rce going through this, while a lot of this slot doesn't stick out to me i find myself liking posts like 994, 997 1007 and... that's about it honestly looking through d2. there's nothing that really sticks about rce that makes me want to eliminate them except:

a) the weird setup speculation that they did at the first beginning of the game wherein they were talking about if scum could escape (176 and 178)

b) 1353. i think that the eventual way rce accepted a50's hard tr could be a way to make a rce/a50 team look more natural and not just them going hard to bat for one another the entirety of the day. but even then i think the half-hearted effort before just saying "yeah i don't remember pairings" is more towny than anything else.

so that leaves you. who i feel is like... running through a list of things that just pile on the list of things that scum does blatantly in the hopes of it being townread because it is Too Blatant. the hard push on snowblaze d1 (where, i know you said you weren't pushing the case super hard but i feel you were invested enough to ask for people's votes and also ask them to change it back which fmpov seems to imply you were pushing it fairly hard), the self-vote in an effort to ~help town resolve you which is entirely counterproductive to actually helping town if you're town and you know that. i dunno. your lategame to me just has this feeling wherein you're trying to get the votes shuffled off of you. 1441 + 1461+ 1471 being some examples of that.

idk. you're just weirdly dissonant in the sort of defeatist tones of "yeah if i'm wrong vote me out tomorrow, or you can just resolve my slot today (as you did earlier), i'm not even really sure in my reads" and still providing a lot of theory and determination in your views on where scum might've voted (1402). sidenote on 1402 i don't know where the

(also, if you are scum i can take full credit for you jestering about at the very beginning of the game).

but really at this point i'm not sure but i really don't have a choice where the wagons go. i think i'd honestly prefer s_s because of my personal theories (which i recognize is hypocritical to call you out for you using your own LMFAO) but i get that it makes way more sense to vote on the snow wagon.

this is meandering but at this point i don't really have anything else i can say/do. i'm not 100% sold on my vote here but it's my only option and it has enough of a chance to flip scum that i'm not upset that it's here.

[Ydrasse]

...it was in fact unfinished. lmao.

i'll reread raya; there was a brief moment on d1 where i was ??? at her general presence but it sort of fell away into everything else and i haven't seen anything she's posted thus far really make me question her again, so i haven't — if i don't try to sort some people as town among the options i'd go crazy trying to figure everything out. for montosh, fmpov the way he's approaching this game feels more like someone trying to genuinely sort through people and their alignments where he's unsure rather than pushing for anything in a way that feels scummy to me. his response to me in 1385 feels about what i could expect from him and out of all the uncomfirmed slots i feel best labeling this one as town for right now.

[Ydrasse]

wrt where i was going to that 1402 thing, it was just to do with i have no idea where that interpretation of the game suddenly sprang from and it just gives me the "how the game would've played out if i were scum, but i am not" sort of feeling that i generally get when i see people talk about how they would play something.

[Ydrasse]

i'm gonna be real, at this point i'm kind of accepting that i'm going to be the elimination for the day and there's not much i can do about it.

i still don't know how the vca implicates me most of all when my vote on snowblaze came after talking to her and getting her to give more content and talk more. it wasn't without reason that my reads changed on her and moved onto mohab/mae. i'm biased because it's my own posting but i feel that those efforts should actually be taken into consideration instead of... timing? that it was somehow more misplaced compared to raya/s_s?

if i'm not hammered tomorrow i'll type up More than just this but at this point it's coming up on eod and i don't see things shifting. i genuinely think that people should revisit a50/mena tomorrow and vote in those two. i skimmed over raya and the way that she goes about everything is either just a) scum being lowkey and coasting on a general sense of being townread today by virtue of people thinking her opening this game was good or b) town who isn't interesting in pushing hard on anything in particular and more of a go with the flow mentality, though not for lack of content and reads. just not as loud about them, i suppose. i still think she's more of a paranoia option fmpov.

[Ydrasse]

VOTE: almost50

ultimately i could have just been ate'd down by a50 and i want my vote here for posterity.

[Ydrasse]

VOTE: almost50

ultimately i could have just been ate'd down by a50 and i want my vote here for posterity.

i also feel like i shot myself in the foot with the way i went about going hard for a50 for a while there. sorry town.

[Ydrasse]

i’m not home for a few more hours but then i’ll be around before deadline to reread some stuff. throw posts my way if wanted.

[Ydrasse]

honestly i think that admitting that you're wrong is like, the bare minimum you can do when you're on a town wagon that went toe to toe with the scum one for a good amount of the day. lmao.

[Ydrasse]

the song has restored my strength.

[Ydrasse]

I’m not townreading A50 on play

But I don’t see why my theory is wrong? On scum wanting to bus there

could i offer you the explanation of: the theory is your theory for how you would think it best approached by mafia, but mafia might not have agreed?

[Ydrasse]

it's me getting down on one knee and offering you a ring pop if you vote a50.

[Ydrasse]

Spoiler:

pick a flavor, everyone.

[Ydrasse]

i townread montosh but after that case i don’t think i’d be heartbroken if he were eliminated. i’ll keep my vote on a50 for now but i’ll be around.

[Ydrasse]

mostly pointing out the reasons why montosh would want to eliminate mena + the emphasis on a50/mena’s positioning wrt each other on montosh’s reads list.

also ngl as scum i did the same sort of iso thing in an effort to seem busy while avoiding certain people/not finishing everyone.

[Ydrasse]

i’d be lying though if i didn’t admit that this coming so close to eod doesn’t make me paranoid that it’s actually mena/a50 together and that’s why my votes still on a50.

[Ydrasse]

also montosh’s relative indifference if he was mafia of being put into a losing position this close to eod would be odd.

[Ydrasse]

it wouldn’t even have to be that extreme but just anything other than “really guys?”

it could be that he doesn’t have time at this point to defend himself but it struck me as weird for maf. like literally any effort at all.

[Ydrasse]

Spoiler:

me after the stress of this d2

[Ydrasse]

>:|

VOTE: almost50

[Ydrasse]

*nodding sagely*

VOTE: menalque

[Ydrasse]

...my vote was on a50 the entire time.

[Ydrasse]

i said i wouldn’t be heartbroken if montosh was voted out but i also made it clear i still preferred a50 and thus made the choice to keep my vote on a50

[Ydrasse]

can we like actually vote in a50/mena today though

the two people who have been on one attempted and one successful town elimination?

[Ydrasse]

like unless you wanna vote in me/raya for being on the a50 wagon with an also townie montosh idk

[Ydrasse]

ftr i don’t think i ever will vote raya at this point

rce either for some good postin

p-edit: eva is just trying to give me the least charitable reason and it HURTS my heart... eva we can get along

p-edit again: i’m shading both of u don’t take it personally

[Ydrasse]

when i’m around i’ll have fisticuffs and pokepuffs at the ready

[Ydrasse]

i’d be lying though if i didn’t admit that this coming so close to eod doesn’t make me paranoid that it’s actually mena/a50 together and that’s why my votes still on a50.

hmm.

[Ydrasse]

yeah. fmpov i still think it's a possibility that the case on montosh came eod to stop the a50 wagon from going through.

[Ydrasse]

Spoiler:

[Ydrasse]

in what situation does s_s just... not... vote on either of the main wagons. like. i feel like that sort of thing reads townier to me personally bc it sticks out like a sore thumb that one of the unconfirmeds isn't going along with w/e else town is doing?

(i know the same thing could be asked about rce but i've sorted rce into town pretty solidly rn so i'm trying to parse s_s. i guess it could be to avoid scrutiny if one of the wagons went through in the case of maf!s_s which would imply a town!a50 fmpov?)

[Ydrasse]

i think there are a few posts within raya's iso that, with the context of d2 going down how it did, read a bit more ? than they did yesterday. i am however too tired to go through them right now in depth

i don't find myself like, convinced that she is Completely Mafia, no doubt, but i feel like i townread s_s a bit more than i did before and townread raya a little less.

rce
raya, s_s
a50, mena

my head is around here right now. i don't think any thing right now that i've read through has really been enough for me to reconsider where i'd wanna vote atm.

good night lovely townies.

[Ydrasse]

ergh. not feeling up to mafia much today.

@snowblaze: why can't menalque/a50 be the scumteam? if i read it i am blanking right now.

[Ydrasse]

but... doesn't me/raya go against what you said about a double bus?

[Ydrasse]

also how is there no way that raya would get executed today? like, i feel you should be making a case for the person you think is actually scum versus the person who you think is poe'd down as their partner despite... thinking that that exact combination of people would have to have done something very stupid.

maybe i'm biased here because the vote is on me but i don't see the like... coherency in pushing on me here except that i am in the preferred poe for the day and it fits this scenario which doesn't like... work. :v

[Ydrasse]

...

*squints*

[Ydrasse]

i did mean have a few posts in mind the other night that i thought were a bit weird in retrospect from raya, lemme go see if i can find what past me saw.

[Ydrasse]

also, given that i don't fit into your scenario, who DO you read with raya now if she's maf?

p-edit: eeeeh *hand wiggle* fmpov you're Okay right now with a little bit of suspicious zest thrown in.

[Ydrasse]

but then again i am not a confirmed townie so my recipes may not be looked upon favorably. flavorably, even.

[Ydrasse]

ngl i only looked for a little bit but couldn’t find what i thought was vaguely questionable from raya so i’m just gonna sleep

[Ydrasse]

@a50: could you post a link to the game you all played together?

[Ydrasse]

this is a lot

[Ydrasse]

[Ydrasse]

damn.

well, gg everyone! was fun despite the roller coaster of replacements and extensions and second-doubting!

[Ydrasse]

I REALLY THOUGHT THIS GAME WAS OVER ............

[Ydrasse]

Also we only have 4 people to hunt within.

What are you takes on what I mentioned about Ydrasse and their reaction to Menalque saying they were scum? I think it was genuine? And if I'm right then it's either RCE or A50 and I'm leaving A50.

I still need to check interactions though

Ydrasse asked me to link the scum game of S_S I was talking about. I did. Ahe ignored the link and never said anything about the subject anymore.

this is super dumb.

i asked for it at night and then didn't revisit the game until the next day where i thought the game was over? so of course i'm not gonna say anything or read it then.

[Ydrasse]

I kinda can't see past ydrasse here. The reason I linked her to S_S yesterday was her 1780, and precisely the bolded:

i think there are a few posts within raya's iso that, with the context of d2 going down how it did, read a bit more ? than they did yesterday. i am however too tired to go through them right now in depth

i don't find myself like, convinced that she is Completely Mafia, no doubt, but i feel like i townread s_s a bit more than i did before and townread raya a little less.

rce
raya, s_s
a50, mena

my head is around here right now. i don't think any thing right now that i've read through has really been enough for me to reconsider where i'd wanna vote atm.

good night lovely townies.

This is where she starts adjusting her reads just in case. I mean, she was adamant it was me/Menalque (Menalque already flipped green, and I know I am town too), but she's moving S_S up and Raya down to be able to push Raya if for some reason she failed to continue her push on me/Menalque.

Also, the Titus NK is weird. Titus was not exactly throwing her weight into the game. My only explanation is that Titus was the main advocate of the Ydrasse elimination. I thought Eevee would be the NK because they are more active, invested and also more volatile.

P-edit: S_S was SCUM. Hello. That reaction could totally be faked with much ease.

do you... want me to keep static reads this entire game? like, do you WANT me to double-down on you today with no considerations at all? you were already irritated (?) to some degree it seemed like in 1824 for that sort of back and forth where there wasn't a lot of re-evaluation save for you + mena.

also, what motivation do i have in that quote to townread s_s? like, how does that pan out in the exact scumteam where it is me and s_s; it'd be super weird for me to either a) townread my partner and escape during the night leaving that last minute change of opinion on him or b) townread my partner who is escaping during the night, begging the question of why i wouldn't just stick to my guns about "oh i think s_s is probably the scum on the mae wagon out of him and raya". it just puts way too much attention on either of us in that situation.

doubly so given that the person who was killed was the person who was most adamant about me being scum. fmpov it's just a way to put more attention on me today and hope that there can be a miselim pushed through off of it so that the last scum can escape tonight. you can think that it's wifom and that i Would Do That As Scum but like, /shrug.

p-edit: i'm between a50 and raya; i have a fairly strong tr on rce right now.

for a50 i have... like, all the stuff i have said before and this sort of weird post i'm replying to now where it's like "well, i can't really look past them..." which feels to me like gently suggesting the idea to everyone for the hopes that people will go for it.

raya, though, is because s_s and raya interacted a lot iirc? posts like 1832 and 1835 stick out to me where s_s was bringing up raya as someone to be potentially suspect but ultimately just didn't go anywhere with. also the fact that s_s forgot somehow that raya didn't really fit into the solve that he'd been going with (1 on/1 off from d1) feels like it could've been a forced effort to keep some sort of scrutiny on his partner.

though idk if s_s would go through all of that and just... actually push on a town!raya or not. so yeah s:

i haven't reread through everything yet, admittedly, but that's just what's at the forefront of the old brain.

[Ydrasse]

i'll respond either later tonight or tomorrow to everything!

(will it be eight hours? well, find out.)

[Ydrasse]

sorry that i haven't replied yet! have been a bit busy and will tn.

[Ydrasse]

@Ydrasse: Fair enough. Now explain why your read started to shift after I had made my case on S_S and voted him (my vote was second to Snow's at the time). Why did you then start defending him (1779) and then moving him simultaneously with Raya down (1780) after you had literally said:

ftr i don’t think i ever will vote raya at this point

just two hours before I made my case on S_S.

Let me put it all in a better "time schedule" for all to see:

1- Ydrasse states she won't be voting Raya EVER

2- 2 hours later I make a case on S_S and vote him (bringing his wagon to 2 votes with plenty of time left on the day)

3- 6 hours later 9and 8 from her "I'm not voting Raya" she starts by defending S_S and then moving him up and Raya down.

That was all within an 8 hours frame.

So, excuse me when I "press X for doubt" when I think you may have been deliberately away from the thread to make sure a mis-elimination occurred and that you didn't have to address the S_S case

i wasn't deliberately away; i asked for the game from you, and then didn't revisit it like i said. if you think i manufacture that block of time i really don't know what to tell you except i like getting my sleep. i wouldn't have asked for the case as scum just because like... what's the point? i ask for it and then i have to make up something about my scum partner from it? i'm talking from my pov obviously but it would've been easier to not say anything at all about s_s to begin with.

my solve has involved you for a good stretch of this game and that has been pretty obvious. however, the longer it's went on the more inclined i've felt to go over things again and re-organize my thoughts a bit. s_s and raya were formerly filling up the same sort of space where they were in the middle of the pack and i thought it was one of them and one of you/mena.

right now though i'm like. 90% sure this is the correct move.

VOTE: raya36

[Ydrasse]

do you... want me to keep static reads this entire game? like, do you WANT me to double-down on you today with no considerations at all? you were already irritated (?) to some degree it seemed like in 1824 for that sort of back and forth where there wasn't a lot of re-evaluation save for you + mena.

Your reevaluation sucked, especially since you ALSO posted the following DURING THE SAME 8 HOURS:

yeah. fmpov i still think it's a possibility that the case on montosh came eod to stop the a50 wagon from going through.

So it looks to me you refused to reevaluate on Menalque (Town), and me (Town), but you did reevaluate on S_S (Scum) and moved him up, and on Raya (leaning Town to me) and moved her down.

i mean, yeah, i wasn't reevaluating you two because i felt a certain amount of sureness in the reads i had then to where it didn't seem as important to me. i hadn't given s_s and raya as much attention so they were the people in that moment i was reading for.

[Ydrasse]

okay i am just going to quote a ton of these at once sorry if it gets messy.

also, what motivation do i have in that quote to townread s_s? like, how does that pan out in the exact scumteam where it is me and s_s; it'd be super weird for me to either a) townread my partner and escape during the night leaving that last minute change of opinion on him or b) townread my partner who is escaping during the night, begging the question of why i wouldn't just stick to my guns about "oh i think s_s is probably the scum on the mae wagon out of him and raya". it just puts way too much attention on either of us in that situation.

You weren't even supporting the theory of scum bussing. You wanted to eliminate off the Snow wagon all the way.

On fact, the only time you voted S_S on 1413 and it lasted for 8 full hours (what's with you and the 8 hours time frames?)

i wasn't, no. it didn't make sense to me frankly and felt too risky.

(i show up when the mood strikes me and when i have the time. eight hours apparently keep me sustained.)

and yes i voted s_s at some point to switch it but as i said in that post it was a safety thing that fit into my perception of how the scum were probably playing; it was not my preferred vote by the end of things though, but something i was Okay with. not my favorite but i wasn't balking at the idea of it. my vote changed to someone i thought could also be scum when asked.

doubly so given that the person who was killed was the person who was most adamant about me being scum. fmpov it's just a way to put more attention on me today and hope that there can be a miselim pushed through off of it so that the last scum can escape tonight. you can think that it's wifom and that i Would Do That As Scum but like, /shrug.

Of course I think it's WIFOM. Titus is the type of player that is stubborn about her VCA. You probably thought it would be easier to change everyone else's minds, and ESPECIALLY with S_S escaping, so "double bus isn't an option" would be your argument (and believe you me; some will buy into it still).

If I/RCE were scum the right move was for that person to escape last night, because we are heavily linked together. I know some will still think "they wouldn't have escaped if X was their partner" but: (a) It's the same kind of WIFOM you're using to say it ain't you, and (b) if it was me AND RCE we wouldn't have had a choice really. One of us would have had to escape, and the other would use that WIFOM from A to try and survive.

i mean, everyone seems to put a decent amount of weight into titus' vca so i doubt anyone's minds would change regarding her viewpoint on that. like, again this is fmpov but as scum her impact on me is there and it wouldn't matter if she was here or not to keep pushing it. everyone is going to go look at her being dead and remember what she posted about me, or she is going to be alive if i don't kill her as hypothetical scum and keep pushing. you can think that i would bother with it as scum or not because it's just speculation for you if you're town.

To elaborate on (b): It is now a KNOWN FACT that the team is NOT A50/RCE. So, only ONE AT MAX of the pair can be scum. If they escape they open the door wide open for the other (the townie of them) to be mis-eliminated on the basis that "they had no choice, and one had to escape anyway".

this is also part of why my focus is off of you, because there just... isn't a world where i see you partnered with s_s after trying to start a push on him like you did. i could have believed you/mena or you/rce, but given that neither of those are the teams you just don't make sense to me anymore as being scum.

[Ydrasse]

And it would have been the town player on the Snow wagon vs the 3 unconfirmed on the Mae wagon still. Do you think I (or RCE) would have had a chance against S_S (assuming you are town here).

Like, let's do a hypothetical proposition here: Let's say I am scum with S_S. Let's say I escaped last night instead of him. Who would YOU have pushed today between RCE, S_S & Raya?

i think that i would have turned more of my attention onto rce because of the townreads that formed between you two. there would be that sort of connection there that would baffle me, and the way that rce's townread on you was sort of "won over" (1102).

however, to be frank it'd be a harder place for me to read because a) rce otherwise i really like, content-wise and b) i think that, from that place, i'd be more inclined to view s_s and raya as potentials. probably more likely raya than s_s because i've finally gotten it through my head that bussing isn't a thing that can be really Done here and your push on s_s would seem a bit too risky (i do not like risks as a player and i sort of push that onto others).

in that timeline, i would be having a worse time is basically what i am saying.

[Ydrasse]

also, what motivation do i have in that quote to townread s_s? like, how does that pan out in the exact scumteam where it is me and s_s; it'd be super weird for me to either a) townread my partner and escape during the night leaving that last minute change of opinion on him or b) townread my partner who is escaping during the night, begging the question of why i wouldn't just stick to my guns about "oh i think s_s is probably the scum on the mae wagon out of him and raya". it just puts way too much attention on either of us in that situation.

Scum can't bus, so I'm not sure what your argument is here with the "what would my motivation be as scum?" Is the counterargument it being too obvious? I already said in the Menalque case, but I don't think that's a good reason since it's still scum motivation + you can always try to explain it with WIFOM.

Can you explain your RCE read?

~Eva

i just don't see like... motivation behind a scum!rce this game. i will admit that i have a bit of bias towards being defended, lmfao, but in reality... i can believe the push on snowblaze and on menalque as being backed by townie thoughts. there's a consistency behind everything and i've not felt that any of the posts as we've gone later into the game are trying to push miselims through on shady reasons?

there's an active effort to gamesolve which feels natural, basically. 1353, 1621, 1884 are all examples of this. there's not really anything that i can sit here and think to myself as scummy.

[Ydrasse]

raya, regarding s_s (of note):

1065: a non-committal townread leaning slightly towards town, with the most room to be scum out of (raya, ydrasse, s_s).
1126: also suggesting the possibility of s_s as scum again; skeptical of voting in this pool.
1179: s_s is town. entire mae wagon is town.
1256: does not believe the team is s_s/ydrasse.
1261: raya/ydrasse/s_s does not makes sense at all as scum.
1276: defends s_s as not bussing without a partner.
1408: warming up to the idea of scum!s_s. votes s_s.
1436: when asked about voting s_s, refers to 1276.
1496: attempts to push a s_s wagon.
1499: responding to s_s; refers back to scum being on 1 of each wagon again.
1501: "I now think it's wrong to say scum couldn't have bussed in this set-up unless both bus together."
1505: to s_s: "... Why are you so against there being scum on each wagon?"
1515: reasons why she is voting s_s; "Snowblaze vote seemed uncaring". earlier onward, uncaring was a reason that raya was tring s_s, albeit to a small degree.
1517: poe points to s_s.
1522: "Or you switched your vote because you realized Mae was going down and you decided to bus to get town-cred."
1524: willing to disengage from the s_s wagon onto ydrasse despite thinking that she shares an alignment with ydrasse.
1802: s_s most likely scum between rce/s_s.
1854: s_s is town.
1901: reasons as to why s_s is town.

honestly i just wanted to document this (and please feel free to read for yourself and draw your own conclusions because i'm biased at this point). i also might have missed some things but it is super late here.

[Ydrasse]

things of note to me:

- the entire exchange that s_s and raya had during the early 1500s, postwise, feels in retrospect to me like a half-hearted svs fight that doesn't really go anywhere and it doesn't get traction. to her part, raya sticks to it for a little bit after going back and forth on whether or not scum would bus. she's for it for a little bit, then against it, and then the vote on s_s comes down. i think that the reasons aren't really that strong, and raya seemed okay to disengage from the s_s push despite not being a fan of the ongoing wagons at the time. now it seems like a weird theater thing going on especially given that s_s was willing to throw down the vote onto her as well in 1519.

in general, i think that the "pushes" they did on one another are pretty half-hearted and there was never a real drive to get a lot of momentum onto either of them. there was some efforts to get people to consider the two of them respectively but not a great wagon. s_s made posts like 1539 where he sort of piggybacked off of montosh asking about raya, but in general he never made an effort for people to wagon onto her. this plays into 1835 and 1836 respectively, where he brings back his raya sr which feels super performative to me ("Probably a moot point since there doesn't seem to be nearly enough support to kill her.") i even asked about why raya wasn't an option to him and it was just "no one was voting her and no one was interested". which... i guess is probably what a scum!s_s wants for his partner, lmao. it feels like distancing though.

- the fact that he was happy to throw out a raya/me scumteam in 1835 despite it going against his philosophy this entire game of 1 off/1 on feels like a slip-up to me, where he forgot that he was supposed to be pushing for the game to be read a certain way.

- 1554 from s_s, 1557 from raya. this is from the perspective of where i am now, but i feel like this might have been a way for s_s to allow raya a way to ease out of her townread on me later down the road in order to push on me when and if it was convenient. it seems weird that s_s, still voting raya, still happy to place that fos on her, would bring up this odd point. like yeah it could be to discredit her logic in that moment but here i am now.

- 1973 feels at odds with the analysis she provided on me and my interactions with s_s. "better choice interaction-wise" doesn't really... feel coherent when it's compared to the times that s_s has said it's crazy that we would be paired. also to be frank i don't see how i am better off here not escaping between me/s_s but that's the Bias.

- raya in general has done this sort of back and forth with clearing me for odd reasons, i feel. the first being that she thought that she and i were aligned and that she walked it back after talking to s_s, and the second being her thinking that i was genuine for my reaction to the game "ending". yes, it is easy to fake, everyone knows this, but the moment where she was believing me feels more like her trying to hedge towards a former tr on me before walking it back (1977) when all of the scrutiny is on me.

so yeah. wee. i think that raya is the big bad wolf, like subscribe and comment. i might do the reverse (s_s regarding raya) tomorrow.

[Ydrasse]

hello and welcome.

my case on raya is basically:

- there was some s_s/raya mutual ~scumreading going on between them and i don't think that it's genuine. there wasn't a lot of push from either of them, fmpov, to get a true wagon going. this is moreso true for s_s who had some point was like "raya won't be voted out, no one is interested in voting raya" despite there being a few sentiments where people were questioning why raya was being townread as thoroughly as she was. neither of them made a very strong effort to go for each other.

- raya, for a long part of the game, had a tr on me and believed we shared alignments. there is a small exchange in 1554 and 1557 where i feel that, despite the weird scumreading they were doing towards one another, s_s asked about me and i feel that (given the position i am in now especially) it was a place where s_s was publically offering raya a chance to disengage from their tr on me for later down the line.

- i feel that s_s slipped up at a certain point. he was pushing for a majority of the game that there was 1 remaining mafia on the snowblaze wagon, and 1 off on the mae wagon. 1832 and 1835 are the lapses in this that i feel now were just him... forgetting his narrative lol.

my wallpost says More but i feel these are the core things that i feel the strongest about right now.

[Ydrasse]

- there was some s_s/raya mutual ~scumreading going on between them and i don't think that it's genuine. there wasn't a lot of push from either of them, fmpov, to get a true wagon going. this is moreso true for s_s who had some point was like "raya won't be voted out, no one is interested in voting raya" despite there being a few sentiments where people were questioning why raya was being townread as thoroughly as she was. neither of them made a very strong effort to go for each other.

first impression here is that it's very realistic for townies to nullread each other as well. it's doubly realistic for a townie to nullread a scum player who plays as .... delicately? carefully? as ss does. at what point did it strike you that Raya was interacting with a scumbuddy in the interactions which you've referenced?

I also think misreading the way the plist is treating a player is more likely a sign of Raya and ss not being aligned aorn? usually in anti bus gamestates, a scumread on your partner feels disproportionately heavy. the clawback ss & his partner had to do from losing their first member wasn't a small task. I'd have actually expected his perspective on how people were reading his partner to be more bleak than negligent (or just sassily blatantly incorrect)? Maybe that's just me. :p

i mean... they weren't really nullreading each other? they were voting one another, they had an exchange at a certain point in the thread going back and forth.

for the most part my reads were set on a50/menalque for the game with raya/s_s inhabiting the ~middle of my reads, with rce being my strongest. when s_s managed to escape was when i went back and read through all of these things. really all of my stuff today has been influenced a lot by s_s escaping and i find that a50 trying to go on s_s more convincing now with that knowledge than i do raya's interactions.

a lot of what i'm posting today is from the perspective as the Person who is being mostly suspected. also i think that s_s made it a point to say that me/him was a Crazy idea, omg, lol it makes no sense before he escaped which is like... to me just seems like he was tying himself to me to get me eliminated today ultimately. idk!

[Ydrasse]

i wasn't deliberately away; i asked for the game from you, and then didn't revisit it like i said. if you think i manufacture that block of time i really don't know what to tell you except i like getting my sleep. i wouldn't have asked for the case as scum just because like... what's the point? i ask for it and then i have to make up something about my scum partner from it? i'm talking from my pov obviously but it would've been easier to not say anything at all about s_s to begin with.

my solve has involved you for a good stretch of this game and that has been pretty obvious. however, the longer it's went on the more inclined i've felt to go over things again and re-organize my thoughts a bit. s_s and raya were formerly filling up the same sort of space where they were in the middle of the pack and i thought it was one of them and one of you/mena.

right now though i'm like. 90% sure this is the correct move.

VOTE: raya36

This pings me as weird because isn't the first paragraph responding to a point A50 already said "fair enough" to? And it doesn't address the issues, which are:
- your progression on Raya from saying you'll never voting her, to being suspicious of her
- why you started townreading S_S

~Eva

maybe, but tbh trying to posit that i was or wasn't away when (to me) it seems simpler that i... actually just was away is an annoying sort of thing for me as a person, alignment aside. i don't like feeling like i have to defend the need that i actually just wasn't online though i get the why behind it?

and there was a point where i apparently found Some Things suspect about raya and i was like "oh, i'll get back to them when i am more awake!" and frankly couldn't remember what they were, LMAO. i think i posted about it because i didn't wanna like. leave people hanging on that one. (also i hope that you can recognize that scum!me has literally no initiative at all to out this sudden change and then go "nah lol nvm dunno why".)

also that i have no reason to suddenly out a townread on my scum partner if it's me/s_s. the reason that i did was that he wasn't voting with either of the wagons the day that montosh was eliminated, it stuck out to me and i couldn't think of a reason why scum would be doing their own thing voting elsewhere.

[Ydrasse]

okay. so why do i, compared to everyone else currently non-confirmed, choose to stay versus s_s?

[Ydrasse]

also, given that i don't fit into your scenario, who DO you read with raya now if she's maf?

p-edit: eeeeh *hand wiggle* fmpov you're Okay right now with a little bit of suspicious zest thrown in.

also i want to point out that s_s never answered me on this.

[Ydrasse]

like, as ever this is from my pov but i don't see any reason why people look at my slot and think that

a) i choose to stay with versus s_s.
b) that i would choose to suddenly start townreading my partner knowing that, between one of us escaping, it's going to stick out like a sore thumb.

it just doesn't make sense to me. i have the luxury of knowing my alignment, blah blah, but both the kill and s_s escaping (after making it a point to push how he and i were never the scumteam, etc) both single me out as the person who scum are trying to push an elim on through today.

[Ydrasse]

also, what motivation do i have in that quote to townread s_s? like, how does that pan out in the exact scumteam where it is me and s_s; it'd be super weird for me to either a) townread my partner and escape during the night leaving that last minute change of opinion on him or b) townread my partner who is escaping during the night, begging the question of why i wouldn't just stick to my guns about "oh i think s_s is probably the scum on the mae wagon out of him and raya". it just puts way too much attention on either of us in that situation.

Scum can't bus, so I'm not sure what your argument is here with the "what would my motivation be as scum?" Is the counterargument it being too obvious? I already said in the Menalque case, but I don't think that's a good reason since it's still scum motivation + you can always try to explain it with WIFOM.

Can you explain your RCE read?

~Eva

i just don't see like... motivation behind a scum!rce this game. i will admit that i have a bit of bias towards being defended, lmfao, but in reality... i can believe the push on snowblaze and on menalque as being backed by townie thoughts. there's a consistency behind everything and i've not felt that any of the posts as we've gone later into the game are trying to push miselims through on shady reasons?

there's an active effort to gamesolve which feels natural, basically. 1353, 1621, 1884 are all examples of this. there's not really anything that i can sit here and think to myself as scummy.

here’s why i’ve been townleading rce.

for a50, i pushed him for a good portion of this game but the s_s flip made me reconsider given that a50 made a serious case and vote against s_s and i don’t think that it was insincere.

[Ydrasse]

... i said why for a50 ;;

[Ydrasse]

i mean i guess? at this point i’ve said what i think the titus kill was for and i really can’t offer you an interpretation other than like... i think it was supposed to but me in a position where i’m focused upon, and since i’m being scumread ofc it’s gonna wrap around to people assuming i’m wifoming.

[Ydrasse]

i feel bad that i most likely lost town the game by being a bit all over the place + it spawned the titus vca and subsequently the kill which at this point i don’t think anyone is going to read as anything other than me as scum trying to sidon it out so i’m gonna sleep, reset and come back tomorrow with a better mindset for reading and replying.

night guys!

[Ydrasse]

*wifom. dumb phone.

[Ydrasse]

sorry for not getting to this today, life decided it wanted to Life.

tomorrow though, and hopefully with more content, i'll throw more things in here.

[Ydrasse]

...yes i should be.

i will be around for a little bit if anyone wants to talk about Stuff.

[Ydrasse]

i think it’s unfair to say that me feeling like i have to eliminate raya is a scumpoint and it isn’t the same in reverse. like... yeah? everyone here has basically made up their minds i feel like and i’m working against the tide of everyone. no one can say raya needs to feel like she has to get me out today because 1) she’s been allowed this entire game to go under the radar it feels like and everyone’s kind of given her a townread for most of the game and 2) she isn’t in a position where she’s the person who is gonna get voted out currently so she doesn’t have any reason to push harder until that pressure’s on her.

[Ydrasse]

also saying that i ~have my options open in case i need to move off of her is untrue at this point from raya. i’ve made it abundantly clear that i’m not moving my vote at this point and that this is where i’m saying.

if i’m scum for having to consider between two people for a bit before voting then whatever i guess. sorry for not knowing the second i come into a new day. but i’m clearly not going to pivot off onto anyone else.

[Ydrasse]

sorry, my room for jokes when i woke up to reply wasn’t really there.

watermelon if it’s not seedless and the knife.

[Ydrasse]

also saying that i ~have my options open in case i need to move off of her is untrue at this point from raya. i’ve made it abundantly clear that i’m not moving my vote at this point and that this is where i’m saying.

if i’m scum for having to consider between two people for a bit before voting then whatever i guess. sorry for not knowing the second i come into a new day. but i’m clearly not going to pivot off onto anyone else.

It's clear you're not going to switch to A50 but that's only because there's a much higher chance to get my killed over A50. If A50 was receiving more heat than you would be switching over there as scum. That's not the case

????

how is there a much higher case on you than me if the general consensus is that you’re townier than me?? i’m the only person who’s like... really cased you right now. you can’t compare the amount of pressure that we’re under when people have votes on me ~in spirit and have generally stated they think it’s me over you??

also at this point you’re literally just trying to paint me as scum on the presumption of what i might do and hoping that everyone will nod and say “ah yes, ydrasse WOULD be on a50, you’re so right.”

[Ydrasse]

sorry if that sounds mean but at this point raya’s just sitting here trying to claim we’re in the same position and it’s super frustrating that this entire time and gets asked like one or two questions, can just say “oh she’s scum by poe” after like, more or less claiming we are the same alignment only UNTIL the mafia gave her a way to recant it and everyone is like yeah... she’s town i believe her.

p-edit: aren’t we on basically the same wagons though??

[Ydrasse]

i’m a mess typing because i’m at work and i’m really sorry if i sound like, Personally mad or anything too because that’s not the case but gamewise i wanna throw down!!!

[Ydrasse]

i’m not going to tell you anyone other than you??? i’ve already said why i townread a50 in this situation and i’m not going to go back on that.

why do you keep framing this like i am inevitably going to switch? because i had two people in mind at the start of the day? you seem to keep emphasizing that i am only on you out of convenience.

[Ydrasse]

i don’t know who it is if not raya. that’s all i’ve got to offer and if i’m gonna get elimmed at this point then so be it i guess

[Ydrasse]

hi. i feel damned no matter what i do; focus on one person or “keep my options open”.

my case on raya spawned only after the s_s escape.

[Ydrasse]

if you want me to be honest i feel obliged to get someone other than me elimmed so that the town loss isn’t on me, i guess?

also i feel i’m in a corner where if i even try to consider other things people will just use that to say i’m going back on myself which like. yeah. but it feels there’s no room for me to ever reconsider if someone posts something new and spicy for fear of some using it as the reason to vote me out.

[Ydrasse]

i wanna find mafia, yes? i didnt think that i needed to make that sentiment clear.

however, to some degree /anyone/ other than me works because it’s not me, and therefore it has a chance to be one of the other three.

it’s survivialistic and i’m aware but at least there’s a chance of a town win that way even if we vote out someone i townread. but at this point i’m hyper aware of how everyone is going to interpret me and my posts. you can call it me being conscious as scum but it’s more of just wanting to do the things that will get people to listen to me when i say it makes no sense for me to be scum after s_s escapes.

[Ydrasse]

i mean, i guess if you think it's a scum mindset i can't really... change that. lmao. but i hope it explains why i feel like i've been pushed into a corner and why i feel like when i get elimmed i'll feel bad about letting everyone down. i've never really... been in this situation i guess as any sort of non-pr!town play, where there was a lot of pressure on me, so it's hard for me to parse what to do in a way that won't get everyone to jump on me and confbias themselves. i definitely feel like i'm just flailing at this point trying and hoping to somehow hit scum so we can win despite having like, zero sway lmao.

i feel that, at this point, at least 2/3 people in the pool that can be scum (raya/a50) could and probably would point to me changing my opinions as me keeping my options open (and raya has already said as much). that is why i'm reluctant to talk about anyone else, which... i guess makes sense if i think about it. it's a super easy thing for scum to jump on for me not having any footing right now and scrambling to come up with something.

the raya case was genuine, though it wasn't anything i was thinking about until today. i still think that the way s_s pushed for 1 on/1 off on the wagon was... strange. but if he played a game where he was trying to lie only by omission rather than making up a ton of stuff it is possible that that is the case.

which, between a50 and rce, i lean towards a50. disregarding the vote and push onto s_s (which is why i stopped thinking it could be a50 today) i've already pushed there, and it nearly went through before it pivoted away. i think that he's been absent through a large part of this day and i don't really know what to make about his sureness on voting me and also saying that because no one has towncased me he's content with it?

i also don't really know what was the point of asking me the hypothetical of who i would push on today if he escaped. i guess to show that like... i would have been open to anything? he never made any comment about it again.

[Ydrasse]

it's one of those things that like. i feel if you're going to analyze like that you're going to see it as inherently scummy so i can't do much there.

[Ydrasse]

that's why i just gotta... try to focus on everything else if possible.

[Ydrasse]

that is fair. i think we probably just disagree on it or, something? i dunno.

[Ydrasse]

at this point i don't think i really have a lot more to say.

i'll be around if anyone has any questions for me i suppose.

[Ydrasse]

...it's going to stay a zero. am sorry.

[Ydrasse]

i know that's like, the least helpful thing i could say here but i am just. /shrug

i don't really have it in me to like. go at this anymore when i think everyone's made up their mind.

[Ydrasse]

/nods solemnly

i will reserve the right for one gentle "i told you so" when i flip though.

[Ydrasse]

i mean. if it's not me, and you don't think it's raya, then in that pool it's rce?

[Ydrasse]

don't give me hope and make me go read rce again... don't do this to me.

[Ydrasse]

*deep breath*

i'll go over everything in a little bit, even if it's just compiling eod votes and the final reads of the people who we flipped and stuff. i don't know how in-depth i'm gonna get since, tbh, my motivation here is at a solid like 30%.

[Ydrasse]

and even if you don't feel confident about me still, or anyone else, hopefully it'll give you a little more information to work with regarding me and my perspective.

[Ydrasse]

reading-plans were interrupted by irl plans.

Content Soon (?)

[Ydrasse]

*peeks head in*

i don't really think rce is scum, but what is the case? because we have more time than i thought before deadline i am not rushing to read through everyone and everything until tonight.

(i am also happy someone seems to be mulling over more the circumstances in which scum!me over s_s get left behind when... yeah. you know my thoughts on this.)

[Ydrasse]

more of just... trying to understand where you're coming from since we disagree. you're right to say that my townread is more of a general feeling about what he's been up to/sounded like all game than anything else.

i'll give you my thoughts tonight for real this time, though. i was a little too tipsy yesterday to try and give any sort of helpful analysis, lmao, so expect it from me in a few hours when i can sit down and write.

[Ydrasse]

rce:

- has consistently had a50 at the top of his townreads and reaffirmed that as of 2089. this has been consistent and i think that repeatedly defending him would make it pretty weird coming into today if rce had to suddenly somehow pivot away from raya. he's made it a point to defend a50 well before we got to this point in places like 1353
- has defended me when i have had scrutiny over me for a large portion of this game, and i am certainly the path of least resistance at this point. granted that there has been some reconsideration of me in 2169 but... i think it's reasonable given past posts made by this slot. like, he actively went out of his way in places like 1681, 1702, 1707, 1896 when it would have been very easy to push me through when there were a lot of votes on me.
- has stuck to raya as being one of the most likely people to be scum, and tied her explicitly to s_s (1353, 1622, 1682, 1892, etc). i feel that this is definitely the path of most resistance today and it doesn't make sense to take this stance personally? there's been pushback as to anyone scumreading raya / re-evaluating her throughout the game and i don't think that scum!rce wants to come into today having made it clear where his stance is regarding her knowing that detaching from that is going to look weird.

his takes on the three people who are in the poe to him just... seem to be at odds with how everyone else is viewing the game? in general rce has sort of been going against the grain when it comes to the opinions of the confirmed.

i think the only case that i could make for rce being potential scum rests in 2248 which is... he's doing exactly that. doing things that seem counter-intuitive for scum (at least, for me) in the effort to be townread. it would explain the pushback against voting out me or a50, going for raya, being resistant to the montosh wagon at its prime (1642).

that and s_s seems to not talk a lot about/to rce. it makes sense if his townread was that strong to not want to question him but in general there's a lack of interaction between the two of them. i guess that though is like... if you scumread someone, you probably don't care if they townread you or not (because ss townread rce)? it doesn't make sense to engage them on why.

however, i think that his explanations in 2272 make sense with regards to why s_s escaping in this situation wouldn't make as much sense between rce/s_s? in general i think that s_s escaping signals that his partner is set up nicely to get someone elimmed without too much scrutiny on how and where they want to vote and rce doesn't seem like that person given his preference of voting.

so between all of that and a general sort of disregard for the confirms/unbothered attitude towards a lot of things i'm townreading rce in this situation.

[Ydrasse]

i mean, her being the path of most resistance isn’t based off of her content so much as the fact that she has been surrounded by a not-much-examined townread that has managed to build over time and hasn’t been Really mulled over until today.

the fact that there are confirmed townplayers with strong trs on her does make her an uphill battle compared to others.

[Ydrasse]

what do you think abt the lack of interaction between s_s and rce? they had opposing reads on each other (s_s tr rce, rce sr s_s) but they never really... spoke to one another at all.

[Ydrasse]

also i didn’t post abt it with regards to rce in that readthru but i was wondering if s_s was trying to play with as little fabrication as possible/lying by omission instead of making up things? that playstyle implicates a50/rce since s_s would be the one off-wagon.

[Ydrasse]

it feels too late at night for the little gears in my brain to be working.

[Ydrasse]

do they actually like /talk/ to each other though?

[Ydrasse]

i’m on my phone so looking through all the abbreviations of names is a hassle but i can’t find anywhere where they have any sort of conversation.

[Ydrasse]

i think it’s possible too because... sometimes you just don’t feel inclined to directly ask someone about stuff. but it could also be indicative too? idk how much s_s talked to a50 but it’s Weird if he did because it singles out rce.

[Ydrasse]

wahhhhh.

rce makes sense as scum but my heart of hearts i still think raya has a good chance of being scum too.

[Ydrasse]

at this point i do not make ANYONE feel good but i have accepted that.

i'm simply going to activate my d4 pr ability where i can vote for everyone who isn't me and also who isn't confirmed so i can be right and wrong all at once.

[Ydrasse]

at this point my posting is just me being me (read: dumbass) as things get closer to deadline where i feel like i've done my part and there is nothing left for me to contribute without being asked because i've said My Pieces.

[Ydrasse]

live footage of me at endgame.

Spoiler:

[Ydrasse]

uh, no... i don't have a lot of confidence in playing scum at all and would probably just want to do the easiest thing/most lowkey in a hope i could work with what towncred i had in the days prior?

[Ydrasse]

...well okay then? lmao

[Ydrasse]

yes i'm sure? in this situation i'm already self-conscious, and playing scum i'd be doubly so.

i've only had one completed scum game on here and even then it was a newbie one which... this setup is infintely different than what i'm used to. trying to break the mold/do things that i think have a chance to backfire seems a lot more stressful than just trying to remain under the radar/towny Enough.

[Ydrasse]

in this game, probably just keep pushing on a50? i've already done that for a long time, and it would align with my reads still. townies tunnel all the time so i'd probably just end up putting my energy there unless my partner told me to do something else for some reason; i'd trust their input more than mine in this game.

[Ydrasse]

...gonna be real i wouldn't wanna be here at all as scum.

i think i would probably try to resist it for the most part? unless there was a very good case presented to Me, specifically, or an effort to talk Me specifically out of the read. a lot of it would depend on how much faith people had in me as well? like, a lot of it would also depend too on the strength with which people believed another person was scum. i think i'd probably be too afraid of stepping on toes though with how i went about it. this one is kind of hard to answer because there are a lot of factors but in general i would probably do whatever would be most expected of me in that moment in the hopes of sliding by.

[Ydrasse]

i feel like i'm taking a multiple choice test rn.

[Ydrasse]

....c?

Spoiler:

[Ydrasse]

............................................

just vote me out i'm sick of your shenanigans.

[Ydrasse]

i'm already being emotional distressed by not being confirmed, and now this? cruel.

[Ydrasse]

you hurt mine first.

[Ydrasse]

lying and trickery. that is how!

[Ydrasse]

so... what's up.

[Ydrasse]

there's nothing but malice in those eyes.

[Ydrasse]

around if it matters if anyone wants to ask me stuff, otherwise i am just kinda... /shrug. here!

[Ydrasse]

honestly i get it? this eod has been super frustrating with a perpetual back and forth and while i know why i'm kind of in the same boat where it's just like... i'm looking forward to people picking between us so we can end this LMAO.

it probably feels cheap if rce is scum to be voted out that way though. like, in the event that one of us is scum and one of us is town... it's just playing to a coinflip fmpov.

[Ydrasse]

i feel like you're just going to do a merry-go-round with all of the other non-confirmeds and then still vote me anyways

[Ydrasse]

yes LOL

i have never been in lategame like this and as scum i would be like... i'm gonna say something stupid please let me out. carry me.

[Ydrasse]

lategame being Down To The Wire Like This.

[Ydrasse]

as we really are just making the rounds on unconfirmeds

also no i wouldn’t! i wasn’t even awake to do so.

[Ydrasse]

in defense of a50... this stance has been his all day. i think that... it probably is pretty irritating to be asked to go over the Same Things over and over again. (including when i was asking him abt stuff). i don't think that it's a surprise that at this point he would wanna check out of the game some?

again, going around on the unconfirmed merry-go-round.

[Ydrasse]

i don't think a50 is gonna come back to reply from his last post...

[Ydrasse]

VOTE: a50

that's hammer i think and i am so sorry if this is the wrong wagon town.

[Ydrasse]

why is no one here why am i alone i need emotional support rn

[Ydrasse]

oh thank god someone is here please hold me.

[Ydrasse]

i was not scum ;_;

[Ydrasse]

i just could not risk the merry-go-round falling back onto me and... i think at this point anyone can be scum and i am just wanting my freedom.

[Ydrasse]

it is okay i genuinely just had never been in that sort of situation gamewise so i kept shooting myself in the foot

also why do you think i was lying about the towncred thing i cannot think of what makes you believe that.

[Ydrasse]

my memory is just... really bad if i actually did do that.

[Ydrasse]

i'll accept a high-five :>

and please do explain because i am blanking on it. i really am town though, pinky-promise!

[Ydrasse]

Spoiler:

[Ydrasse]

that's just how i feel waiting for the flip

[Ydrasse]

PLEASE don't put me through the emotional pain of having people doubt my alignment more... i'm town i PROMISE

AHHH

[Ydrasse]

Spoiler:

[Ydrasse]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

[Ydrasse]

thank you so much for hosting + modding this nsg! this was super fun despite me needing therapy after that final day!!!

to the scum: i WILL be seeing you in court for that night kill and the distress.

really though, super close game and super fun!! gg!