Mini Normal 2153: Post-game

[UnaBombaH]

Wanna roll scum together one day una

I believe it could be fun.
Although, I'm not at all confident on my ability to play on this game anymore - let alone trying to "emulate playing this game" if you understand what I'm saying.

[UnaBombaH]

...surely wagononics suggest that the person we've wagoned twice and can't elim (bob) as a direct counter wagon to town, is scum?

This is what worries me.

[UnaBombaH]

And to not be mysterious about this^^

I do not think it's going to be as simple as that.
I know that I've been one of the more vocal opposers to a bob-wagon from D1, and I'm pretty much more or less locktown to myself (this was a cheeky version Isis ).
I think there's a tone to bob posting that reaches me in specific situations, and I've been getting that a lot this game.
I also think scum would say his slot is mislynchable, and therefore have been returning to the carcass for two days now.

[UnaBombaH]

So we auto-lynch Hoopla today then.
VOTE: Hoopla

[UnaBombaH]

I'm not stressing too much about this being an option, but in the alternate reality where Hoopla flips town, we are likely at LyLo already, right?
It's not like there's much reason to even consider other routes today (nor would I want to tbh), but what are the alternatives even?

Scum have a roleblock and knew to use it on Hoopla today?
Or bob is scum and lies about not receiving the visit?

If it's ever the above scenario, we'd be screwed anyway.

[UnaBombaH]

Eliming hoops and having her flip red in no way makes bob green for that revelation, actually.

Well, that was sort of my point actually.
Although, I was aiming at it from the theoretical "having Hoopla flip green doesn't make bob red either".

[UnaBombaH]

I'd almost say give her a...48 hour deadline? Then hammer. The game state just won't progress otherwise

I want everyone to have a chance to peek in though!!
In the off-chance we still have a role tucked away somewhere, and they have results to share.
Slim chances, but chances nontheless.
No need to NOT wait for that at least.

[UnaBombaH]

So we're back.
Any drastic changes to anyones thoughts?

I've been thinking about the game with scum!Hoopla in mind for some time now, and yet every other scumread I've had so far has apparently been off.

Isis has said that this game isn't as complicated as I make it out to be, so I'd really like to hear from her.
What is the solve at this point?

[UnaBombaH]

Sunday-lazy here as well.

I'm just thinking that I might want Bella flipped rather today than later, if any people agree with Isis.
People have been hounding that slot for so long, and I do think it's time to put their money where their votes have been.

Also I'm not sure I really like that nightkill.
After scum!Hoopla being flipped, I was quite certain Isis was going to be the kill last night.
Not to say Porkens wasn't obv.town to me, but Isis has been claiming their stance on Hoopla should leave no one with any doubts either.

@bob - now that Porkens is gone, I'm thinking I might have to lean on you.

Otherwise I'm just gonna be stuck because I don't think it's gonna be that obvious of a scumteam.

You also think it's gonna be Bella->RfS for the win?

[UnaBombaH]

@bella - you said this yesterday:

Not elim-ing one of hoops/bob today is just bad. We are running out of town.

Do you think it was literally "one of these two", or do you still think bob should be lynched?

Isis is suggesting a remaining scumteam of you/RfS.
What do you think about the Suji-slot?

[UnaBombaH]

Your approach to my slot is ridiculous - you keep aggressively town reading me to my face while being fine to flip me. Flipping me doesn't solve anything

I have explained this to you already.
I'm not going to vote you, pending a new discovery during a reread. Something that I have literally missed. You are not a scumread of mine.
But, you also have to realize that it's starting to seem very likely to me that one of you/bob is actually scum and managed to fool me.

And to make it even more clear, you probably misunderstood my post there. I said

I'm just thinking that I might want Bella flipped

rather today than later

,

if any people agree with Isis.

Isis has been on your case for some time now, and it seems like they are not going to give up on you as a target until you are indeed flipped. If they go somewhere else today and hit town, they are going to want you again tomorrow. And I'm not great with these but I think that might already be LyLo?
So yea, if they can't come around to townreading you I'd rather see you flipped today, and see them try and explain themselves later.

You reacting like this whenever I'm poking at my read on you is the only thing that makes me suspect you in the least.

[UnaBombaH]

So your saying when ns died, you though he was a town pr.

I'm not sure what you're saying here.
What I was saying there was that I thought notscience might've been a Doc.
If you go check my ISO, I was always VERY careful with how I put my townread on notscience to words.
Ever since D1. And when they mentioned a Doc in a context I didn't quite understand, I thought it was a cheeky crumb.

Didn't realize that ice cream thing was as prevalent and important to what they were actually crumbing, until they flipped obviously.

[UnaBombaH]

Bellaphant (4):

Isis, geraintm,

notscience

,

Porkens

Replacement for Sujimichi (4):

Galron

, bob3141,

Hoopla

, Not_Mafia

bob3141 (2):

Replacement for Sujimichi, Bellaphant

Just throwing in an observation while you are doing good work bob!

None of these three wagons has been flipped yet, AND all three of the ones being wagoned are voting on these wagons as well.

[UnaBombaH]

Ok I'm properly pocketed let's just take the safest shot

VOTE: Replacement for Sujimichi

This worries me.
Simply because you are willing to put Bella on hold

again

, but I'm sure you will definitely return there tomorrow (again).
And don't get me wrong, I'm fine with RfS being the lynch over Bella/bob, but I'm just struggling to find the logic behind your voting here.

Basically the vibes I'm getting here say that is RfS and Bella are town, then Isis is scum.
And the partner is either Bella (and you've been putting a lot of distance between each other), or it's one of gera/N_M.

[UnaBombaH]

I think it's like Hoopla/RfS/Bella GG

I mean, I guess your vote makes sense if you think this is the full solve.

[UnaBombaH]

RfS and Bella

are

town, then Isis is scum

The "and" here should obviously be "or".

[UnaBombaH]

And now I put the italics on "are" instead of "and"...
Fck me sideways.

But yea, for Isis to be town I'm thinking both of RfS and Bella almost have to be scum.

[UnaBombaH]

N_M and gera are the "wildcards".
I don't think I've seen scum!N_M ever? I'm not even sure what it would look like.

I hope gera can give his perspective soon as well.
I think they were the only one to out any major suspicions towards Isis yesterday?
Not sure if that was scummy (guess that'd make me scummy too for having these lurking suspicions), or the complete opposite.
I'd argue it's almost towny to doubt universal townreads at this point? Dunno.

[UnaBombaH]

I am like
not very fazed by that requirement even though with 7 players alive trying to make 2 perfect reads I should be

It's those two at least half the time.

Especially RfS

OK, so you want to go RfS today?
And if they flip scum, we move onto Bella?

[UnaBombaH]

I am starting to think Isis is just town.

OK now, what is going on in here?
You've suddenly "woken up" to this scumread on me, and almost simultaneously Isis is just town?
You know what vibes this give to me?
You're suddenly seeing an Isis-wagon as a potential reality, and somehow this has prompted a reaction from you.

Now I would like to hear how/why that is a thing.

[UnaBombaH]

Hoopla (6): Isis, Klick, Bellaphant, notscience, UnaBombaH, Dunnstral

This is hoops wagon.

From my pov

- I think it's really odd if this wagon is all town.

So unknown, town town town, unknown, town.

Exactly, your PoV.
And like I said earlier, from my PoV one/both of you/Isis almost has to be scum with the way things have been rolling.

But instead of you going for Isis today, you have suddenly realized that they are town and I'm more likely to be scum?
Even if i said I'm not voting you today, and have been working on what Isis wants all day?
I'm honestly not following your train of thought here at all.

[UnaBombaH]

Una what is your preferred exile order?

RfS-> Bella/Isis depending on what RfS flips.
If anymore exiles are necessary at that point, it's a crazy coin toss between N_M and gera I guess?
Like if RfS is green, I really think you are the only reasonable lynch Isis. Going to be honest with that.
If RfS flips red, it's definitely bella next and I'll worry about tomorrows after that if necessary.

If RfS flips red, then I guess I'll admit to a Bella-flip next, and we potentially just win. Or we at least should have one more day because only one more scum should remain, and we should be able to talk it out somehow.
If RfS flips green, I'm probably dead tonight and it's just Isis+someone I'm not suspecting. Basically bob/Bella I guess.
The way bella has been posting today kind of creeps me out, because it smells HEAVILY like Bella+Isis.
Are you able to see that?
Makes me wonder if it's really scum!bella planting seeds for *something* or town!bella getting paranoid, but the narrative they are laying out is weird to me.

[UnaBombaH]

My point is, all game hoops made these weird three way connections between me and Una. Either

she's : scum and all three of us are scum and hoops is really bad at scum

:

scum and both of us are town and hoops is really good at pocketing

or

scum and only one of us is town and the other is the tactic of hard town reading your scum buddy

.

Like, for example this makes no sense to me.
I'm not sure if bella is forcing these connections out of nothing, or she KNOWS THEY ARE THERE.
All I've ever read into posts like these from Hoopla, was that she was playing the "townbloc-builder"-game.
Whether I thought she was going to flip scum or town (at that point), all these posts ever meant for me, was that she was building and "playing at" a bloc.
Nothing more. And I've even said it before (in this game or the last) - Hooplas MO is playing a tightly knit group.
As scum, and as town. But it's not the same thing as mentioning her scumbuddy in a townbloc and making "3-way connections".

And I colorcoded the post just to make sure I understood it correctly, but yea..bella just mentioned all the variations.
Even the one where she and I are both scum.

[UnaBombaH]

Find scum, stop lining up lynches, and then we'll think about my read on you..

This is just mean-spirited. I am trying to find scum, and I am NOT lining up lynches.
Do you know how these games are often solved, or how they often end up when scum win the game in LyLo?
There's a thin line there, especially with NO RESULTS to speak of, whatsoever.
Me discussing THEORETICAL LYNCHES with Isis is more about me forming an opinion on what she wants, than it is about me lining up any lynches.

[UnaBombaH]

If I'm scum with Isis we just vote RFs here, why would I be bothering to dive in hoops' iso or do wagon analysis?

Because that gets one or both of you lynched tomorrow, and from there the game falls apart.
For the theoretical scum!bella+Isis that is.
So what you need, is to keep your distance for one more day, but start to soften your other reads to justify the winning lynch tomorrow.
Which is also why I pointed it out - you reacting this strongly when N_M (one of the "wildcards") has voted for Isis and gera has just mentioned their soft scumread on Isis again makes me reach for my tinfoil.

You can't see all my quotes and say I'm making up connections. Try and find them for other people.

You also have to KNOW that most of those connections, and ESPECIALLY Hooplas

VERY

soft push on you..they all came out after they had claimed their bullshit.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again.
Anything and everything she said after that claim has been WIFOM.
She KNEW she wasn't getting away with that claim, and she made it as a gambit, obviously.
To buy some time, to lay down some chips.
You should know this.

You seem quite cross about me re-assesing the game state one day before potential lylo

No, I'm trying to understand your thought process here.

[UnaBombaH]

'if RFA flips green, lynch Isis, if red, lynch Bella' - Una
'im not lining up lynches' - also Una

Gee, I wonder why I'd say that.

Una what is your preferred exile order? I'm trying to think about something

Bella also

Preferred order. Theoretical.
If you think we can discuss this game out without considering the future days at this point, then I suggest we just pick a number and vote.

Now you are just trying to misrep me, and I hate it.

[UnaBombaH]

You also pulled shit out of context in your wall, and I'm again here wondering whether you did it on purpose, or by accident.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm really not trying to misrep you. I just don't understand why me having second thoughts is this much of an issue for you.

But you are misrepping me. Or how do you want to present that lates one where I literally quoted and answered Isis?
And you having second thoughts wouldn't be an issue to me, but there are two factors here.
1) the timing an manner of how you started to turn your read on me
2) the fact that you are actually voting me - as in - UnaB should be the lynch today over everyone else who are currently still alive.

Everything about your play D4 so far feels very unnatural to me.

[UnaBombaH]

..which is why I'm not laying down a vote.
It's not that I'm afraid of scum quickly piling on and throwing the game.
It's because I don't currently trust the rest of the town enough to NOT pile on.

[UnaBombaH]

Tbf, Una, if I was scum I'd be sitting back here..I think just writing the 'wild cards' as town also isn't optimal play.

You also know this is always WIFOM. If I was scum here, I would've had days and days to "prepare" for this.
I'd know Hoopla is going to go down, and I'd know all the nightkills that are going to happen.

Instead I'm out here freaking out because I don't feel like I can trust Isis, and now I can't trust your judgement, so..

And I'm not writing both of the "wild cards" off as town.
I'm just not sure if it's realistic that Hoopla has been creating this game-state for N_M and gera, and now they are just sitting back?
Una/Isis/Bella/bob/RfS all town?
Hard for me to believe.
Max one scum in gera/N_M, or alternatively Hoopla is a mastermind who managed to put us into a situation where both of her buddies are off the radar and the rest of us are at each others throats.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm off to bed now.
I need to reread the latest pages with a fresh pair of eyes.
I guess my own annoyance is affecting my read on bella currently.

[UnaBombaH]

Well, at least gera has provided a "fresh" angle.

But as far as I interpreted that post correctly - even gera thinks one scum has to be withing bella/Isis/Una.

[UnaBombaH]

I kind of don't get seeing bob as scum this game.

And this is something we should all agree on.
I tried to make that distinction earlier - out of my two remaining townreads of bob/Bella, bob has been and remains the stronger one.

[UnaBombaH]

I kind of want to see what happens if I do this now:

VOTE: Not_Mafia <---- L-1

[UnaBombaH]

Alternatively I could have joined the RfS-wagon and put that to L-1, but I have openly and consciously made this decision instead.

[UnaBombaH]

Good claim - in the top 2% I'd say.

[UnaBombaH]

Is that an OMGUS-vote, or do you actually have a scumread on me?

[UnaBombaH]

Id rather rfs here.

Vote him then

My thoughts exactly.

Want to give some not-sarcastic reads N_M?

Also - this vote from me was a reaction-test towards anyone potentially hammering with wonky reasoning, or RfS/gera unvoting the same way "in fear of a quickhammer"

UNVOTE:

I think N_M is on the townier side of my reads still, but bella just keeps getting worse.

[UnaBombaH]

I thought RfS or gera might have unvoted with a scared "omg don't want a fast lynch" but I guess it was a childish gimmick from me.

[UnaBombaH]

The only thing about N_M that worries me is the fact that they went for an OMGUS-vote on me rather than stick with the one they had.
Not because I interpret that as scummy, but because I'm worried what they will do in case we ever get into LyLo.
I really thought I have seen N_M do good things in the later parts of a game but when I tried to check some of the games we've had together I couldn't find a good example.

[UnaBombaH]

Bella, if you really can't see the logic behind those posts, INCLUDING that first one, then I can't tell you what my vote was all about.
Plus the vote was on N_M who I think would probably be the likeliest to "lolhammer", so unless they'd selfvote (which I don't think even N_M would do as town there) that was a pretty safe play IMO.

And the real point of it was to see whether gera or RfS would've unvoted in their next post and reacted like a posing scum might do if they are currently on a mislynch or on their scumbuddy.
Neither did that, so I'm back to planning my next move.

[UnaBombaH]

The test seems silly and it seems like something scum!una would be doing

Based on unlimited research and/or experience of playing with me?

The "test" was only a slightly optimistic in nature, even if also quite silly.
I felt certain one of the two would've unvoted, yet neither did.
Gera admitting to "almost doing so" means nothing - there's a huge difference between thinking about doing something and then actually doing it.
Huge.

I'm not saying either of them "passed" the "test", but I am thinking it's quite unlikely that a theoretical scum!N_M was being bussed there.
I'm also thinking that neither of gera/RfS felt a need to do any posturing, or to try and join the push on me with ~reasoning~ provided by my vote.

Therefore, my over-analysis suggests that if N_M is scum neither of RfS/gera is.
And also, if one of RfS/gera is scum, they felt comfortable enough being on a lynch towards N_M potentially going down this early, and didn't see the need to spin my actions against me.
I think those are going to be accurate deductions until the end - whether it helps anyone solve anything is a different thing.

[UnaBombaH]

Bella and N_M are still voting for me btw.
N_M without any reasoning - most likely just trolololol-OMGUS
Bella with the reasoning of "having second thoughts"(??) about my slot, and then whatever Hoopla-based crap they came up with.

I'd say bob and N_M are the two slots I'm never voting today. (not anymore at least )
Meaning that RfS/gera would have the scum out of that aforementioned "trio" - most likely RfS.
Then the remaining scum would most likely be in Isis/Bella.

Isis+bella seems like paranoia and nothing else, the more I think about it.
RfS+gera would be insanely bold for both of them stacking on N_M, but I guess it's not completely impossible.

[UnaBombaH]

See, I really want to read some of your more recent posting as town. But then, instead of talking to me properly about the hoops thing, you just throw shade.

I am not throwing shade.
You. Are. Still. Voting. Me.
50% of the votes on me currently come from you. I'm two votes away from being lynched, in a situation where I can't still fully trust almost any of the remaining people to just not vote me for ~reasons~ to throw the game into LyLo.
I'm still very aware and "scared" of scum!Isis for example. And it hasn't been 24h since they said something about scum!Una.
And IF Isis is scum, they win after I'm gone.
None of you will push their lynch all the way through if it ever comes to that.

Plus I still dislike your reasoning for voting me.
And I'm not shading you at all today - I just think your posting has been way worse. And I'm not the only one.

Guess mine has been scummier too since you changed your stance on me today? No wait, you voted me early and haven't unvoted despite saying you'd "rather go RfS today" and how you "want to read my posts as town".
If you want to keep your vote on me, then you should.
But I'm never giving you townpoints for doing it.

[UnaBombaH]

Why would scum!Bella have done the iso dig? To frame you? Why would scum!Bella go after the loudest voice in the group for an elim that people aren't biting on? Surely if you are town, there's the possibility we can solve together.

Scum!Bella would've actually done the "ISO-dig" because they would've known that it was there. Hoopla would've absolutely told her teammates if she had intentionally dropped such associations to find later.
As for why you're voting me. I honestly don't know why if you're town. Scum!Bella would be in a situation where they have to be careful about how many "townreads" they have this late into the game. Makes LyLo difficult otherwise.
I guess you felt like Isis is going to be an universal townread after the Hoopla-flip. And they were always more likely to vote you than I was. So trying to make peace and pocket there, and turn your read on me makes a lot of sense moving into lategame.
You are trying to make that single ISO-work look like the towniest thing ever. Maybe I should return to my past habits of making 3+ of those per player in lategame.
I used to not be lazy.

[UnaBombaH]

You really think you are making it to lylo, Una?

Well I guess it'll obviously depend a lot on who we flip today, and what they will end up flipping, don't you think?
If we mislynch today, scum might be able to use that to their advantage tomorrow etc etc.

[UnaBombaH]

So apparently RfS then.

I guess I'll give intent to hammer first?

Considering how it's gonna be a weekend now, and they are at prod-range, I think it's fair to do it like this.
I'll be helping my mom painting her house exterior over the weekend, so I'll be around to hammer on sunday.

I'd prefer people didn't hammer before I get back, but I guess it wouldn't affect things much either.

[UnaBombaH]

Ok? Gimme some of that ~24h to post, I'll spam a lot then.
We painted that old ass house for 12 hours yesterday, and now it seems we still have almost the same amount left for today.
I'm afraid I won't be able to come clean until that has been done+some sleep..

All I can say for now, is that no way everyone who's on me is town. If after I've said my piece you still think I'm scum, at least you'll have the pool of people for tomorrows lynch.
Especially Bella has been acting very poorly with their posting today, and not only because their surprising twist of a scumread towards me.
Isis and Bella suddenly finding common ground on my wagon is also weird as fuck. No idea why Isis now considers me a better lynch than Bella/RfS, but apparently I was trying to solve the game in a stupid way.
N_M is still less likely to be the scum on me, because I think RfS is the scum not on me, and I do not think that pairing makes a lot of sense.

[UnaBombaH]

Oh, and because I know these few people will be pushing for me pig-headedly, and possibly trying to pressure others to hurry with a vote/actions while I'm not around -

I do not want us to massclaim today.

And I might as well claim VT the way this game has gone.

And since there's suddenly no one on RfS (funny isn't it) I'll put my vote to where my strongest townread is, and she can now call it OMGUS or any of the other possible things.
VOTE: Bellaphant - you should've honestly waited for me to come back, and we would've gotten a red flip from your buddy RfS. LyLo is gonna be a pain for you.

<--- off to do some more painting.

[UnaBombaH]

This doesn't fit what you were saying earlier. You went from "Replacement to Sujimichi is my preferred destruction" to acting reluctant and saying "I guess we're doing Replacement for Sujimichi today" to "Funny how no one's voting Replacement for Sujimichi anymore". You shade when the route is closed, and act hesitant when the route is nearer. Get off the rocky path and onto the highway.

Not true.
My vote on you would've been the hammer then.
Do not try and twist my words the way your teammate already has throughout the game.

Me giving intent because I knew I would be swamped this weekend doesn't mean I wasn't going to vote and hammer you in an instant once I got back.
But when I took that break to see what was going on, I found the wagon on you empty, and 3 votes on me instead.

So your attempt at twisting my words and/or agenda lacks the context of what the voting-situation was at the time.

[UnaBombaH]

Una will lynch basically anyone. He only town reads bob. Like...can we just get this done? I will elim myself tomorrow if I'm wrong.

Fking not true!

I wanted RfS lynched #1.
And since I've been agreeing to 1/2 scum in RfS/Bella for some time already, and have Isis listed mainly as a paranoia-read - my lynchpool is rather small.
I tried to give enough context for my vote towards N_M

BEFOREHAND

and you still make it sound like I was really looking for a lynch there.
I do not want them lynched today.
Bob is my townread. Do not want them lynched.
gera is what remains if I'm wrong about RfS/Bella (because then Isis would need a teammate), but at that point I guess we'd already have lost the game so it doesn't matter.

What is this obsession to shade and misinterpret you have, really about?

[UnaBombaH]

And just to be frank - I am not going to get any friendly visits from anyone this game.
Even trying would be a waste.
I keep my door closed tight.

.

Interesting.

Can we lynch this? I'll say pretty please to anyone.

Once more - context and the use of words matter here.

And I

might as well

claim VT

the way this game has gone

.

And just in case you have no idea what you are dealing with here, I have said something regarding my role way earlier in the game including my hesitance to claim it.
I'm not going to bring any results from earlier nights to the table, and like said "the way this game has gone" suggests that my role was a red herring/"waste of power" after all.
But since I assume you are scum anyway, I don't feel any need to humor you here.
Consider me a VT for all intents and purposes, or consider me scum - doesn't matter much to me.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm off to bed now.
Haven't slept much at all during the whole weekend and every part of my body is sore.

After a good night sleep, I'll be around if someone wants to interact with a quicker pace.

[UnaBombaH]

At this point RFs and Gera either need to elim me, or Una.
Una will lynch basically anyone. He only town reads bob. Like...can we just get this done? I will elim myself tomorrow if I'm wrong.

You'd elim yourself in LyLo?

This is actually a good fking point.

[UnaBombaH]

I don't know what you're saying, Una. My point was that as soon as it looked like I was actually going to be elommed, you changed your tune as if you were reluctant or unsure about flipping me, like you were prepping for the townflip.

No, my tone was apparently misread by more than just one player.
I guess you might've just decided to misunderstand me, but then there had to be at least two townies on me who really misunderstood my stance.
I just wasn't ready to end the day, and I wanted to offer you the same courtesy that Bob is currently trying to extend towards Bella (time to claim etc).

[UnaBombaH]

Una, that's a lovely explanation of how I've mis-reppes your post. It would be better if your soft reflected that in any way.

I honestly think my soft can only be interpreted in two possible ways, and I'll leave it to you to decide which way you want it to swing.
If you are indeed scum, it's better for us that you don't know exactly what I am, or what roles we potentially still have alive.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm willing to compromise/hammer 2 different people and if the stasis gets bad enough I guess I could look at a third. I just really don't want bob mostly.

The "stasis" towards Bella likely just means that their partner won't bus, or they are already on.
Not that complex.

If we are by some shenanigans on town right now, the stasis would be more concerning I guess.
I think scum might've just given up.
What hurts us more is bob/gera/N_M not being around to discuss reads more in-depth.
Voting their favored lynch is the 1st step, but it will not move the game onwards anymore.

[UnaBombaH]

He claimed something shiny that didn't work.

Where the hell did I claim that?
All I was aiming for was to be a universal townread worthy of a nightkill in the early game.

There are some anti-town

looking

roles circulating the games now as well.
Roles I'd never claim as town because I know how they'd be perceived by other townies.
I'm not entirely sure how such roles add into the whole balancing thing, but more than rarely those have been the kind of setups that have been the most swingy too.

And now we should stop talking about my role, or we should massclaim.
And if we do, I'm worried scum come out on top of it all.
That's my opinion on it.

[UnaBombaH]

And in case someone wants to twist my words while I'm sleeping - I do not think we have any more investigatives out there for results.
But I think the best case scenario here is scum missing a nightkill.

Bella is just looking for any last ditch effort before being flipped.

[UnaBombaH]

why don't you join me? as I have said I think the wagons are either on scum or voted by scum, I do not want to join anyone. I am very reluctant in this game state to do so.

You really seem to think a flip on N_M would really be better than a flip on RfS/Bella.
I do not see this being an agenda since they both can't be scum

with you

, and joining either one for a mislynch would be easy for scum!gera.
So I guess you are town for sure.

I mean, it doesn't change the fact that RfS and Bella are likely both scum.

[UnaBombaH]

as the bella and una wagons both have 2 of the 4 people I dislike on them, I ain't joining them despite me thinking Bella and Una are bad.

There's just a few problems I have with this.
1. If you are able to tier us like this, and put Bella in a higher "scumtier" than me, you should be able to vote them over me.
No matter if I'm voting them or not. If anything, I could be bussing here, but you would still want a scumflip today just like the rest of us.

2. BOTH of your 1&2 tier scumreads are on me.
I can see why you wouldn't want that lynch, but to be unable to "compromise" on Bella is weird to me.

[UnaBombaH]

And to be honest, I'd argue that your townread on RfS might be the biggest flaw in your reads right now.
It's likely the reason why we can't agree to a lynch currently, considering how most of your top scumreads want them flipped and consider them a highly likely red flip.

[UnaBombaH]

I will deadsheep you and suspect Una and stuff

You think Una is sus right?

Now this seems like scum making the bed for tomorrow!
Isis - are you seriously now doubting that Bella doesn't flip scum? Or did you intend to "deadsheep" scum?

[UnaBombaH]

...even I could see that there's an 'if' in Isis's. But Una definitely isn't ready to jump to call anyone scum. Oh nope.

Funny how you can read other peoples intents well enough, but not mine?
You even saw that "if" that wasn't there.
But when I literally post words that are quotable, you somehow manage to not see them..

[UnaBombaH]

Just woke up, ready to post soonish.

[UnaBombaH]

itt una takes over an hour to eat brayk fast

No, it takes hours to get my head straight, eat SOMETHING and drink something else.

[UnaBombaH]

Yea, so guess I'll just claim too.
I'm quite certain the remaining scum are bound to claim VT anyway.

I'm a 2-shot Compulsive Commuter.
Yea.
Guess my role was meant to be a negativish utility/red herring in a scenario like this - filled with investigatives?

[UnaBombaH]

I guess my initial gameplan should make way more sense with this information out in the open now too.
I was fine being "universally" townread in the early game, and keeping up an environment where I might've been a low-information/townread kill for scum in the first 2 nights.
I was also doing my best not to draw in potential investigations after D2 - hence my comment towards Hoopla possibly using their action towards me.
(in the off-chance they were town, they'd waste their shot and no one - me included - would believe the "no result"-type of response)

One of the reasons why I thought notscience as doc would've made sense, was if the setup had a Vig/SK kind of a thing and/or the scumteam would have something like a strongman.

Obviously seeing all these investigative-flips and no extra-deaths per night made me realize that whenever I was gonna have to fully claim, I would produce some raised eyebrows.

[UnaBombaH]

This is the biggest load of shite I've ever read and I follow Trump on twitter

Well, didn't think you'd believe me anyway so..

[UnaBombaH]

What part?

[UnaBombaH]

Yea, absolutely.

[UnaBombaH]

Well you tell me.
I was just in a game with two town Millers and one town Ascetic Encryptor - with no PTs in the game.

[UnaBombaH]

I guess we didn't have a protective, so I was supposed to be drawing fire from scum?
I don't fking know.

Guess we'll be more informed once Isis claims.

[UnaBombaH]

Backup Moderator: Micc
Setup Designer: Fredrick A Campbell
Primary Setup Reviewer: mastina
Secondary Setup Reviewer: northsidegal

Not that hard Isis..

[UnaBombaH]

OK, I'm going back to bed then if it's just you two and this is the conversation we are having..

I'll come back and catchup though. I want to learn more about paper-theatres since I was unable to build that Eeveelution one properly anyway.
Just not in the mood of watching this unfold live.

[UnaBombaH]

Well you tell me.
I was just in a game with two town Millers and one town Ascetic Encryptor - with no PTs in the game.

Impotent PRs as named townies and double roles are a thing, "lol just commute N1 and N2" is not

Well, I'm not sure what is or isn't a thing around here anymore.
I feel like there many mods and setup-designers who absolutely just want to destroy any signs of "meta" within the Normal games.

[UnaBombaH]

Impotent PRs as named townies and double roles are a thing

Also, you should realize that the example I gave you is so much more than just "what roles are a thing and what not".
My whole point there was to say that I've seen setups where weird, wonky, borderline unfun-to-play roles are used as a way to break expectations and balance the setups.
My role is the kind I'm not supposed to claim for it to have any function (ie. bait a kill from scum), but obv. as town I'd like to put information out there.
But it's also the kind of role where claiming it AFTER makes no difference!
Scum wouldn't still find a need to kill me, and I'd only give them ammo to use against me.

[UnaBombaH]

Like, go check my attitude once we had three investigatives flipped already.
I even made a post talking about roles that seem scummy. Roles that I would never want to claim.

And consider this - if you want to call me scum FOR claiming my role.
I could've planned something way different beforehand. Way in advance.
I was by no means forced to (very softly) crumb or claim this.
It is my truthful role, and I absolutely hated playing something like this.
That's all I have to say about my claim.

[UnaBombaH]

I don't think I should claim my night actions until other players have claimed. If someone else claims tracker or watcher and it's circular where each of us should claim first to verify the other I guess I don't mind going first, but I should wait until the rest of the claims come through to claim what I saw or didn't see I think.

So in essence - what you are claiming is a Tracker?
No modifiers etc?

And you really assume we would have any other Trackers/Watchers remaining after you've seen a Neapolitan/Psychologist/Follower?

[UnaBombaH]

Yea.
Welcome aboard.

[UnaBombaH]

Funnily enough, I'm more inclined to actually believe that claim.
After seeing Bella flipped, I was like 90% sure it was going to be Isis/RfS.

[UnaBombaH]

Actually true.
Follower is more of a distraction, and even Neapolitans aren't that strong N1.

[UnaBombaH]

Well, I wouldn't want RfS to be allowed to be the last one to claim, but I guess it doesn't change much at this point?

[UnaBombaH]

I'm town

Considering this was your own claim...

Can I claim on RfS's behalf?

..I'd guess you would claim "I am scum" here then?

[UnaBombaH]

Yea, I'm still thinking RfS today.
I'm just wondering whether that's what I'm "supposed" to think, or what I'm actually thinking.
If that makes any sense.

[UnaBombaH]

Why didn't we get the necessary fuel to a RfS-wagon yesterday btw?
Was it all because I did that poke towards N_M to fish for reactions? That was enough to make me an interesting enough lynch to keep RfS from being a realistic option?

I mean, I still think Bella was acting like scum, but RfS got off relatively easy yesterday now that I think about it.

[UnaBombaH]

Huh.
So an actual guilty claimed on RfS?
I need to not over think this I guess, and just be happy that Isis has a guilty on the one slot I would've liked to vote for anyway?
I'm off to do my coaching stuff today, and will be back tomorrow. Before I lay down my vote, I'd like to see geras take on this.
Because we can't just test a flip anymore, and if gera buys what Isis is selling, it would almost certainly imply scum!Una to gera. (which I'm obviously not)
I'm more concerned of the possibility of a Ninja.

[UnaBombaH]

So realistically..?
RfS+gera/Una
Isis+N_M
RfS+N_M (Ninja?)

I mean.. With Isis results, it's basically narrowed down to these options, right? I think everything else would be a stretch.

[UnaBombaH]

Before I go, the only negative thing about Isis here is that I do not like those crumbs. I don't think they are clear enough, but that isn't AI unless they are straight up lying anyway, so..

[UnaBombaH]

if you are like "the role crumb is brief and clippy enough there could be 10 others like it" that is fine that's my philosophy on role crumbing.

Guess it's that yeah.
But I'm also sort of annoyed by the fact that you didn't push WAY HARDER for the RfS-lynch yesterday vs Bella.
I guess you should understand that?

[UnaBombaH]

Una do you think this game has a 2-shot compulsive Commuter?

??

And just to be frank - I am not going to get any friendly visits from anyone this game.
Even trying would be a waste.
I keep my door closed tight.

Yea? What are you going for with this?

Una either is a commuter or contemplated a commuter fakeclaim throughout the game

Well yea. I am a commuter..? What kind of scum would contemplate such a fakeclaim?
I literally had to say that for the 5% chance of me being the target of an actual investigative/friendly neighbor in Hoopla.
All in all I just didn't buy the claim, but I also didn't want to be the reason for that result to potentially go to waste.

[UnaBombaH]

Could Una be a scum full commuter who I failed to investigate last night? In this quote he said he's not receiving any friendly visits this game

Well yea, that was obviously considering the source of the claim. That being Hoopla.
I wouldn't get one N2 because I was commuting, and later wouldn't happen because Hoopla would be dead either as a conf.town or conf.town
Nothing more complicated than that.

[UnaBombaH]

So, yeah, basically I do agree: from the original setup, drop one of the scum PRS, and add a town one, and we're looking good.

I'm gonna guess Una full commuter theory is less likely than normal if this is this is the mutations mastina usually pushes for in reviews
UNVOTE:
cause maybe we just vote gera here and end it

I'm not honestly sure I like this.
RfS should be the lynch today, and we will see what 3-way we end up with tomorrow.

[UnaBombaH]

Oh, and I'm never voting N_M because of lol!Ninja.
I'm just worried that is the one thing that fools us, and scum get a lucky win.

[UnaBombaH]

I pushed pretty hard but RfS still has a partner so it doesn't hurt to eliminate people who could be that partner. Bella seemed like a viable RfS partner to me.

And hey, I'm not saying you are scum for it. We all messed up there, and I'd still argue scum!Bella for the way they turned their reads yesterday.
I just think you should've potentially pushed for RfS over Bella more, and take Bella only as a compromise if it really came to that.
Dunno.

[UnaBombaH]

On a scale from Fissure to Surf to Ice Beam to Swift how much do you believe my claim Una, it's more sortable for me to lock you into stances earlier

Gera has locked in "swift"

I think the order of your moves is flawed.
Fissure is an OHKO, but it misses more than it hits.
I'd name your claim OHKO if I thought it was a scum-fakeclaim.

[UnaBombaH]

Accuracy percent was supposed to be how much you belief me

Surf and Ice Beam are both 100% accuracy.
Sure, Swift never misses though.

[UnaBombaH]

Eh.
If Isis is talking shit, it's obviously Isis+N_M.
Simple as that.
I've had creeping suspicions towards Isis throughout the game, but I've admitted there has always been a high level of paranoia there.

Now, everything I dislike/suspect about your claim.
1. The timing of a guilty is bad, considering how RfS would've been lynched yesterday with a guilty.
Sure, you would've died last night, but we wouldn't be at LyLo right now. So there's that.
2. The fact that you claim a blocked result on me N4(?) gives me pause as well.
Because it fits so well with N_M being town, and still leaves a ~slight~ potential for shade towards me.
Which you already threw in there with that scum!full_commuter-talk.

What I mean here is:
Because you were blocked N4(?) scum have a roleblocker -> N_M didn't move N3 -> N_M didn't commit a kill or a block -> N_M is town.
Plus it lends room for the idea that I'm a scum!Commuter, or gera/RfS has a scum!Roleblocker included.
It's a neat package, and that obviously pokes at my fear of losing to a fakeclaim.

[UnaBombaH]

But then there's this.

I realized later you were probably spending lots of headspace in the universe where we just kill Hoopla

You know, I think I'm rather good at pointing out fakeclaims.
I didn't believe Hooplas claim for a second, and was only willing to admit I was wrong if I was proved wrong.

[UnaBombaH]

If Isis can just address those ^^ two numbered parts in any way and/or length, I guess I could be at Swift.

[UnaBombaH]

Yea, Isis is a Tracker.
Meaning N_M is town.
Meaning RfS is scum.
Meaning that gera is scum.

[UnaBombaH]

If N_M and Isis feel like they are willing to "risk" it by voting gera, I'll join.
I don't want to lose this because of my pride and fear of losing to Isis here.
I always say I'm not a prideful person, but honestly it's just more about managing the feeling and not letting it overpower logic.

[UnaBombaH]

I think I'm coming round to Gera scum and just dismissing Una's role as "wtf are normals these days"

"wtf are normals these days"

"wtf are normals these days"

Well, from my latest games.

The setup would've been 1xIC, 1xMiller and a "red herring"-role to screw with peoples heads on flip?
Doesn't seem any less weird than an additional Miller and a Rolecop on top.

I do not EXPECT to run into a setup like this ever again, but that wasn't the first time on site with two Millers in the game.

What the actual fuck.
It was really just a 11:2?

So I just avoid any and all setup-spec nowadays.
Trying to enjoy the game no matter what bs-role I end up having, has become a metagame of its own.

[UnaBombaH]

Not hammering.

[UnaBombaH]

No wait, I AM hammering.
VOTE: gera

[UnaBombaH]

..and I missed the vote on the final pagetop.

GG guys.
Thanks for calling me masterclass Isis.
I really want to talk to you guys more after the game, and definitely play with you all again.
And the modding was overwhelmingly good. Never seen a votecount-level like this before.

Thanks to my scummates - it was a good team effort and our kills were on point IMO.

And in case anyone felt like I was rude, obnoxious or unfair - I apologize and obviously didn't mean any of it. That was just me being scum.

But now I have to go do my coaching stuff for real.

[UnaBombaH]

Are we gonna get access to the Dead thread.

[UnaBombaH]

That was a question?

[UnaBombaH]

So they'll open up in about 1 day and 4 hours from now..? Yikes.
My attention-span and memory will both have failed me by then.

[UnaBombaH]

I feel like the sheer amount of power roles potentially makes the setup very swingy, and a real struggle for scum anyway. Had we not landed the lynches and NKs that we did, just one more hard guilty would've ended us. Don't understand balance well enough to argue it further, and we won anyway so..? Eh.

[UnaBombaH]

Reading that Dead Thread makes me think we did the exact right kills..
Because everyone in there says it was very obvious that I was scum and should've been roped for days!

[UnaBombaH]

I liked our team very much.
Lots of talk in there, and we were mainly on the same page with basically everything.
It's not as much of a chore to be scum when you are playing with teammates who are willing to put in the effort and share their opinions and tactics.

[UnaBombaH]

There was this one game where we continued posting in the thread for some time after the game had concluded. I believe this will delay the thread being locked.

[UnaBombaH]

The paper theatre was Isis' post from what I remember, not UnaBombaH's.

I also had the Eeveelution one.
And at least I didn't finish mine.

[UnaBombaH]

I have been dreaming about this one model though, that I would love to....finish with?

[UnaBombaH]

This game was an entertaining read through. I found Hoopla and RfS scum without any problems. I really had no idea about Una all the way up until the reveal. If Isis (or anyone else who can spot Una without hindsight bias) happens to read my post I'd appreciate an explanation of what tipped you off about Una in this game.

I'm not one to try and start any drama, but they most likely cheated. I'm such a top tier scummer, that no way they played fair here.....

I haven't been active on this site in years, but seeing this thread still open warms my heart a little.

[UnaBombaH]

This game was an entertaining read through. I found Hoopla and RfS scum without any problems. I really had no idea about Una all the way up until the reveal. If Isis (or anyone else who can spot Una without hindsight bias) happens to read my post I'd appreciate an explanation of what tipped you off about Una in this game.

I'm not one to try and start any drama, but they most likely cheated. I'm such a top tier scummer, that no way they played fair here.....

I haven't been active on this site in years, but seeing this thread still open warms my heart a little.

Cheating insinuations are not something that should be brought to the list moderators attention without mentioning it in game. Simultaneously, the only way they could have cheated is from somehow gaining access to something that contained the information that you were mafia. I took care to only send the least amount of information to the least amount of people that would still make it possible for me to run the game to reduce the number of ways players can cheat.

Being away from this site for years has clearly deteriorated my ability to convey humor/sarcasm through text!
I was obviously joking here - I'm far from being a top tier scummer.