Open 785: Secrets of the Anuket Topaz [Game over!]

[Raya36]

VOTE: Holden

[Raya36]

I find it interesting how Holden places an omgus vote on Votato. Then when two votes are placed (one for Holden, one for Votato) he engages with the player who voted for Votato

[Raya36]

I get that conclusion from votato stating that there can be only one majestic equine then voting you. You're wording suggests intent to get a wagon on votato and the only reason for choosing votato seems to be him voting for you. Omgus is still omgus even if it's in rvs and banter. Then you engage with the player who votes votato as well and I also sense a light attempt at buddying this player.

[Raya36]

I get that conclusion from votato stating that there can be only one majestic equine then voting you. You're wording suggests intent to get a wagon on votato and the only reason for choosing votato seems to be him voting for you. Omgus is still omgus even if it's in rvs and banter.

Quoting this half as I'm fine with the analysis of first mate porky, even if it's wrong.

I find your claim to be a stretch however. If you concede that the dreaded "Big horn" Votato called me out to duel from your point of view, then why must I not vote there? I'm don't see how you are reaching your conclusion if that's the context you are providing.

If ye wish t' join me crew, we must destroy th' pathetic trivial cap'n known as "big horn" votato. He has breached priate law far too many times 'n be woefully dishonest, even fer a pirate!

Furthermore, 'tis th' reasonin' ye seem t' be citin' fer me votin' votato. Where does it reference votato's vote on me directly?

It is reasonable to vote votato back but I find it odd that you're pushing for a wagon.

Yes, that is what I'm referring to. It does not reference his vote directly but that is not needed if you read the game. It's very clear you're going against him for voting you and generally when scum omgus votes they don't state that.

[Raya36]

It is reasonable to vote votato back but I find it odd that you're

pushing for a wagon

.

Belay that, be th' underline part o'er me focusin' on porky vote on 'im?

I can actually see now if that's th' case how ye got t' that conclusion. I thought yer were claimin' that me intial vote on votato was a hard commitment t' wagonnin' votato which didnt make sense.

It was actually mainly this but you are still correct about the Porky part as well

If ye wish t' join me crew, we must destroy th' pathetic trivial cap'n known as "big horn" votato. He has breached priate law far too many times 'n be woefully dishonest, even fer a pirate!

[Raya36]

VOTE: holden

Why?

[Raya36]

I don't think so Homura. He said that he could stop translating it to pirate speech for someone to read better.

[Raya36]

Right. It's open so no bastard mechanics like that anyway

[Raya36]

Now then, I shall be extendin'

toes o' friendship

(ToF) t' both ray 'n votato. Votato fer th' mindmeld o'er porky. Ray I currently am enjoyin' them diggin' at stuff on me, mohonk, 'n Craig.

Thar also th' point that scum!ray could o' rebuttal chemist read on me based on meta yet decided nah t'. If they were scum, I kinda expected them t' undermine t' keep th' wee push on me goin'.

Maybe I will accept your offer

[Raya36]

sorry 'm late i was just training first aid and sailing in the lower decks

I find it interesting how Holden places an omgus vote on Votato. Then when two votes are placed (one for Holden, one for Votato) he engages with the player who voted for Votato

I get that conclusion from votato stating that there can be only one majestic equine then voting you. You're wording suggests intent to get a wagon on votato and the only reason for choosing votato seems to be him voting for you. Omgus is still omgus even if it's in rvs and banter. Then you engage with the player who votes votato as well and I also sense a light attempt at buddying this player.

crew mate Raya! i get if you're trying to move us out of RVS but this is

very

reachy - you're talking about the 3rd and 5th posts in the game
i thought it was clear Holden's vote doesn't mean anything alignment indicative so him choosing to engage with someone that isn't where his vote is placed means nothing

i will assign 1 WtP (Walk the Plank) to Raya

~Eve

Reachy yes, but did we not get out of rvs?

[Raya36]

i like the donkey sheriff but i may just be charmed by his pirate speak

Mohab's questions about the setup in 9 look more for show and i don't get why she unvoted in 51 - why did you? also i'd argue early wagons aren't pointless but that's not an alignment-indicative discussion to have

1 High Seas goes to Holden
1 Walk the Plank goes to Mohab
VOTE: Mohab

~Eve

I think I TR Eevee

[Raya36]

Reachy yes, but did we not get out of rvs?

sure but are you now claiming that was your original intention rather than actually thinking it was suspicious from Holden?

~Eve

Yes. It stood out to me most in the rvs phase though

[Raya36]

Welcome to the game Umlaut!

First impressions based on basically nothing:

• Holden town
  
• Eevee town
  
• Raya town
  
• Chemist kinda town
  
• Porkens not so great
  
• Mohab either
  
• everyone else needs to do more

Why isnt porkens great?

Pedit: is that a good point pirate donkey sherrif? Raya bringing that point up doesn't mean she's scum since it sounds valid and means - wait do you mean suboptimal or optimal plan? if you propose optimal plans as scum then she's right to point out it's NAI and that does the same thing of getting us out of RVS
i suppose her route was one that requires more substance than a meta read which would be easy to make for scum but it wouldn't be a scummy one to make

Arg let me dumb down the pirate talk fer clarity sake.

The plan I purposed there was worded to sound pro-town even though it was advocating what is normally suboptimal play in lovers mafia (I was voicing to delay claiming the pairs until halfway through the phase to get "more info out of reactions to the pair claims").

My stance on the matter is that she's townish, or at the very least telling the truth about wanting to force the game pass rvs. While it's true scum!ray could of pointed it out in a NAI way, I think scum ray could of very easily turned it into an opportunity to actually push me/actively discredit me. The total lack of mentioning it sticks out, and I'm struggling to see why scum!ray would ignore it knowing what she knows.

Spoiler: rambling over NAI call out

I think you could say that scum!ray pointing it out as NAI is pro-scum as well since it actively is disrupting town from forming town reads, but if I remember correctly ray admitted their scum play is very underwhelming so I'm not sure if they would see that more advance move as scum (no offense). I rather not accept that yet since I never actually read their scum game during lovers lol. It's also hard to separate that theory from if town!ray had answer (hence why it is a better move for scum to make over shading me but I digress)

Idk if I can help clear anything up because ya know, wifom. My initial rvs vote on you was just for voting votato back. Not a big deal in rvs. But then when you supported porkens for voting votato as well and then invited others to join in the wagon I saw it as a good opportunity to call you out and get the game going


Slight townlean on snowblaze. I find scum tend not to open with a pile of reads.

[Raya36]

Idk if I can help clear anything up because ya know, wifom. My initial rvs vote on you was just for voting votato back. Not a big deal in rvs. But then when you supported porkens for voting votato as well and then invited others to join in the wagon I saw it as a good opportunity to call you out and get the game going


Slight townlean on snowblaze. I find scum tend not to open with a pile of reads.

I mean not really since it's over what you havent done.

I also disagree on snowblaze and actually

FoS

the readlist. I found most of the reads (pork, Ulmant, mohab, craig) non-committal or providing reasons to not fully trust in it (ulmant on chem for example). The only 3 committed reads there are a townlean on me and eevee and a town ping on you.

That's a good point

Snowblaze, do you think you could explain some of your reads?

[Raya36]

Craig is too scummy to be scum

[Raya36]

Craig is too scummy to be scum

Even though I know this is a discredited concept I'm having trouble disagreeing.

Yeah, 100%, but he is TOOOOOO scummy to be scum

[Raya36]

I'm actually very confused about Craig right now. If they are town it almost feels like they're gamethrowing. It's quite important to get a scum lynch D1 or D2. So I don't understand as town why they're playing like this and drawing votes.

But a similar thing can be said for scum. It's important they don't get lynched D1 or D2 so as scum why would you want to draw this attention to yourself.

It's all wifom but I don't see this being pro-any alignment.

[Raya36]

It's just different this game since if we lynch a wolf we get 5 conftown. There's more at stake

[Raya36]

Question for everyone: if I’m town, what do you think scum is doing right now?

Probably at least 1 is pushing you and probably the rest are ignoring or null on you. Maybe a light townread

[Raya36]

Why snowblaze and ydrasse?

[Raya36]

Ok. I townread Craig now

[Raya36]

I don't really like the Pork replace out, mostly he said he was really excited about playing earlier. I also have intel that Porkens might not like scum very much.

~Eva

Why would scum!Porken say he's really excited if he doesnt like his role though.

[Raya36]

It made it clear that it was all a reaction test and I really don't think scum would start the game by trying to pull that off when the stakes are high

[Raya36]

It made it clear that it was all a reaction test and I really don't think scum would start the game by trying to pull that off when the stakes are high

Eh, not exactly a reaction test but sure

Could you explain what it was then?

[Raya36]

I think Fredrick is ok. No slip there. Unless he backpedaled hard and successfully

[Raya36]

I think Fredrick is ok. No slip there. Unless he backpedaled hard and successfully

What is "backpedaled"?

Going back on what you said

[Raya36]

Just referring to the potential "scumslip" of knowing about daytalk

[Raya36]

Sorry guys, was really not engaged with this game yet and discouraged when I came in and couldn't find anything to comment on.

VOTE: Fredrick
Going to start off again with this

[Raya36]

What's scummy about RCE

[Raya36]

I want a wagon so I guess I'll move like asked

VOTE: RCE

[Raya36]

I'm 100% sheeping for a wagon rn. I was asked to join last page. Still waiting for an explanation

[Raya36]

I'm 100% sheeping for a wagon rn. I was asked to join last page. Still waiting for an explanation

Why are you committing to sheeping a wagon without knowing the reason it exists?

Catching up after shower. Just saw this when skimming for context.

Because nothing happening is catching my interest and a wagon is a good way to make something happen

[Raya36]

What's the point of that vote Fredrick? am I missing something? going to explain?

I'll give it some time to ferment.

Ok I'll help.
Why are you voting me?

[Raya36]

What's the point of that vote Fredrick? am I missing something? going to explain?

I'll give it some time to ferment.

Ok I'll help.
Why are you voting me?

I'm not.

Oh ok. Why are you voting SS then

[Raya36]

We only have 3 days and a bit until deadline

[Raya36]

I think Holden is trying to cruise through the last few days

VOTE: Holden

[Raya36]

I think Fredrick is ok. No slip there. Unless he backpedaled hard and successfully

Sorry guys, was really not engaged with this game yet and discouraged when I came in and couldn't find anything to comment on.

VOTE: Fredrick
Going to start off again with this

What was going on here, raya?

Me trying to re-engage myself

[Raya36]

Sorry about the short catch up. Hurt my hand, sucks to type.

I think Fredrick is ok. No slip there. Unless he backpedaled hard and successfully

Sorry guys, was really not engaged with this game yet and discouraged when I came in and couldn't find anything to comment on.

VOTE: Fredrick
Going to start off again with this

What was going on here, raya?

Me trying to re-engage myself

Okay but like why did you vote fredrick to do so?

Thought it might go somewhere. It did not.

I think Fredrick is ok. No slip there. Unless he backpedaled hard and successfully

Sorry guys, was really not engaged with this game yet and discouraged when I came in and couldn't find anything to comment on.

VOTE: Fredrick
Going to start off again with this

What was going on here, raya?

Me trying to re-engage myself

What do you think of my snow vote.

Engage with me

I agree with your reasoning and I can definitely see that. On a reread of her iso I'm not getting a strong solvey feel.

That said I think this reasoning is true:

VOTE: Snowblaze

Is this because of Holden’s post, or because I haven’t posted in a while?

@Holden, if you must try and get me killed, you could at least spell my name right. Anyway: my original vote on Fredrick was more a gut ping than anything else. It’s kind of hard to put it into words, especially a few days later, but I thought he was just opportunistically hopping on wagons.

I unvoted because I thought his remark on scum not having daytalk was a townslip after finding out that scum did have daytalk. Probably should have made that slightly clearer.

As for my post with the RCE vote, that’s probably because I didn’t really have any scumreads (still don’t, I guess). And it wasn’t “why everyone else can’t be scum” it was more “why I don’t want to vote for other people”.

Snow, why can't scum fake that townslip. I see that all the time or scum asking the mod if there's daytalk for example

[Raya36]

Yeah. I’m trying. I was just going to point out that RCE’s vote on me is ringing all kinds of alarm bells.

“I vaguely remember not liking this wagon, and I think other people have done scummy stuff, but I’m fine with eliminating this anyway, we can worry about other stuff tomorrow”.

That just screams “scum trying to push a miselimination through while simultaneously distancing from it” to me.

Other than that, in general I feel like scum are on the latter half of my wagon rather than the early part. I’ll see if I can find what I particularly don’t like.

This is actually suspicious. "Who on your wagon is scum?" then she says the counterwagon lol

[Raya36]

Almo what do you think of my reasoning here and why does town!RCE make that post?

Because he didn't receive a red PM and didn't even read the rules thoroughly?? I mean, the rules explicitly state:

The Mafia win when all living members escape.

There is no mention of "majority" here, so RCE didn't read that (and I'm sure the win con in the role PM is identical because it would be a mod discrepancy if they gave us something in public and something else to scum in private).

Now let's discuss the possibilities: 2 Scum Eliminations on D1/D2 = Scum instant loss
1 Scum Elimination on D1/D2 and they canNOT have a "majority" escaping because NO ONE will escape by the end of D2.
No Scum Elimination on D1/D2 = still can't win by the "start" of D3 because only one scum would escape by the end of D2 and they need to make it through D3 for a second one to escape (and that's EVEN if we assume -somehow- "majority" which I already said was a misconception)

So, RCE was wrong. Plain and simple.

Now let me ask you this: What is the SCUM motive behind this post, given scum daychat is also announced in the rules. If RCE had doubts or was unclear about the rule (which -again- is not possible from my PoV given it's an explicit win con statement) why wouldn't he have asked in the scum PT?

This is a really good post.

UNVOTE: RCE
There isn't any scum motivation for that post unless they were doing it for us to think they're town for that reason. But if so it clearly backfired on them.

no Almo you don't follow me

RCEngima tried to give the impression he didn't want scum to realise they could kill each other if they hadn't already, and asked a question privately to the mod
but if that's the case, he shouldn't be making that post in the first place since it could possibly alert scum that they can kill each other

the scuminess of that post has nothing to do with the act of misunderstanding the rules - it has everything to do with the intent of the post and the disconnect betweent the thought process behind it and the actual act of making and posting it
you ask for scum motivation? there doesn't need to be a

specific

motivation for that post - the scum motivation for any post like that is to give out content and get yourself not scumread
you and RCE aren't invited to perform for the play - you can still have tickets to view it though

VOTE: RCEnigma

~Eve

VOTE: Eeveee
Seems they're just trying to find a reason to push RCE now (says we need to look at the intent but the only intent that makes sense is town intent), and then they say A50 looks bad too for disagreeing.

[Raya36]

This is actually suspicious. "Who on your wagon is scum?" then she says the counterwagon lol

But she has actual reasoning for it, so it's not a cop-out. And like I pointed out before, she's right that RCE's vote did look bad.

Yeah I saw that giant wallpost about RCE from her after. You're right that it's not a cop-out.
I don't want a snow lynch. I'd be ok with RCE since my only reason for townreading is that whole scum killing scum thing that I don't think scum would talk about in thread.
I'd like Eevee but I don't think that would be popular.
I'm not against Mohab.

VOTE: Mohab
I don't think Eevee is gonna happen and if Mohab does flip scum that would be very telling in that regard

[Raya36]

That's E-3 for Mohab and 15 hours until deadline

[Raya36]

Why don’t you want a snow lynch Raya? Or more to the point, why do you think snow isn’t scum?

I believe Snowblaze's post that I quoted and she stepped it up with that read list and the new burst of effort. I also believe that she will participate much more now based on the reads and the effort shown there and the lack of participation and solving was my main problem originally.

[Raya36]

That's E-3 for Mohab and 15 hours until deadline

This is vaguely disingenuous given that Snow is also at G-3

Snow is viable as well but I don't want her lynched because I think she is town

[Raya36]

That's E-3 for Mohab and 15 hours until deadline

This is vaguely disingenuous given that Snow is also at G-3

Snow is viable as well but I don't want her lynched because I think she is town

Yes but by presenting only mohab it makes her seem like she’s the only person viable to anyone coming into the thread late, when that’s not the situation. Despite your reads you should present the information honestly so that we can see what people chose to do between the two of them on later days with all the information in front of them

I really wish we weren’t deadline guillotining

That's true but I was just pointing out that I brought Mohab to E-3 but you're right, I should've pointed out snow too

[Raya36]

Why don’t you want a snow lynch Raya? Or more to the point, why do you think snow isn’t scum?

I believe Snowblaze's post that I quoted and she stepped it up with that read list and the new burst of effort. I also believe that she will participate much more now based on the reads and the effort shown there and the lack of participation and solving was my main problem originally.

Which post, you quoted two?

And why does snow making an effort at threat of being lynched make her townie vs her lack of solving earlier?

Also why is effort townie? Snow made walls and tried in her scumgames on site and meta is basically the only reason to TR someone or SR someone for effort

530
I think that's genuine and I think she's actually trying to get into the game. Maybe I'm being a bit too forgiving for lack of effort since I'm struggling to get into the game myself. The effort could be trying to get off the chopping block but with the time left before a lynch has to be made and being the most likely to get lynched all that effort wouldn't be likely to save her and would only be info for town if she flips scum.

[Raya36]

I know we've beaten this particular horse a lot already but I think there may still be some life in it.

I am gonna ask a really dumb question but, can there be power roles in this game?

This is a

very

weird question for a townie to be asking, because it's effectively a VT claim on page 5. (Yes everyone is a VT, but if town!Mohab is genuinely asking this question it means she doesn't know that, so she's making a substantial claim.) A townie who is actually confused on this point ought to, if not read the setup (because who does that?), then PM the mod. That's another reason to think the question isn't genuine.

This is a good point about Mohab as well. Could be an attempt at a fake townslip?

I think you're confusing what town "should" do with what town "do" do. Because a lot of the time if I'm unsure of something I'll just sling it in the thread for clarification. I understand the paranoia around mohab seeming to have intentionally townslipped, but I just don't think scum actually very often decide to fake townships, and also it hasn't worked at all because people are so sceptical given the nature of the townslip? Like if you're focusing on townslips being faked, I think fredrick's is more likely because that's so much more plausible as a thing to not be sure of. Like mohab fake slipping a lack of knowledge about whether there are PRs just isn't even an effective way to fake townslip.

It is an I direct way to claim VT though which could make it possible from scum.


I really don't think the Snowblaze wagon is the right one. I'm just not feeling her buckle under pressure or act differently than I'd expect. The wagon almost feels forced? This is based on playing with her in the past and also what Eve said about her scum meta. Doesn't feel like what she described. My only concern is the frustration for some reason feels forced and fake. But the rest still stands more string pointing towards town!snow


I don't think I understand where the titus wagon is coming from?


Not sure how I feel about Montosh yet. I get they're catching up but the posting isn't anything I'd ever read through so to me I assume busywork. I need to see more.


I definitely still want the mohab slot lynched. Mae makes this really long post and says they have a problem with the Snow wagon yet then says that Snow is scum and votes there. Really seems like Mae forcing a scumread on the counter wagon. Stating her scum meta indirectly while being sure to not do that and instead use it against snow. All looks bad

[Raya36]

Mae is at E-1 just so everyone knows
Snow is E-2

[Raya36]

Mae is at E-1 just so everyone knows
Snow is E-2

Actually it looks like they’re both at -1 assuming the last VC was correct. And I’m holding the hammer, fun.

Probably still going to just go with Maemuki here but I disliked Titus’ earlier vote enough that it gives me pause in joining back in on that wagon.

Oh you're right. I missed the snow vote


I feel like there's a good chance of Mae flipping scum? That post voting Snow was just not a town post and when I was reading it all I could see was scum motivation

[Raya36]

Mae is at E-1 just so everyone knows
Snow is E-2

Raya in there with the VC misinformation again I see

The tone of this is yuck.

I don't quite get what you meant about the tone now that I've seen that it was misinformation.

It's the word again. It implies repeated malfeasance rather than innocent error. It's very side angle at Raya being scum aka shading Raya.

I'm just bad at reading when I'm tired. Sorry

[Raya36]

I definitely agree at least 1 scum was on the counter wagon. I'm also in the same point of view where there are 6 possible people to be scum. So that means fmpov there's [RCEnigma, Montosh, Almost50, Menalque]

[Raya36]

I guess if there’s anything that’s town indicative that I think should be looked at it’s that I really didn’t push the snow wagon that hard compared to what I could have done, and scum!me tends towards extremes. So if I was trying to defend a buddy from the lynch I probably would have doubled down harder on the push against snow

Aware that this isn’t helpful as it’s self-meta but I wonder if eevee or Titus who are more aware of me as a player might know that about me

Why are you already pre-defending yourself?

[Raya36]

I think it is also likely at least 1 scum was on the Mae wagon. What do you guys think if this? I doubt all 3 scum were on the counter and I feel like at least 1 would be distancing by being on the wagon. If so that makes Ydrasse and S-S candidates fmpov.

[Raya36]

I guess if there’s anything that’s town indicative that I think should be looked at it’s that I really didn’t push the snow wagon that hard compared to what I could have done, and scum!me tends towards extremes. So if I was trying to defend a buddy from the lynch I probably would have doubled down harder on the push against snow

Aware that this isn’t helpful as it’s self-meta but I wonder if eevee or Titus who are more aware of me as a player might know that about me

Why are you already pre-defending yourself?

...because I’m aware of how awful I look based on D1 because I’m not an idiot?

But wouldn't it make more sense to let someone find that for themselves instead of jumping in with a self defense?

[Raya36]

Also if you're scum I think you're playing the smart move by jumping in and taking a leading role in D2 hunting. Scum have a lot to lose today and have to do everything they can to not get eliminated

[Raya36]

I guess if there’s anything that’s town indicative that I think should be looked at it’s that I really didn’t push the snow wagon that hard compared to what I could have done, and scum!me tends towards extremes. So if I was trying to defend a buddy from the lynch I probably would have doubled down harder on the push against snow

Aware that this isn’t helpful as it’s self-meta but I wonder if eevee or Titus who are more aware of me as a player might know that about me

Why are you already pre-defending yourself?

...because I’m aware of how awful I look based on D1 because I’m not an idiot?

But wouldn't it make more sense to let someone find that for themselves instead of jumping in with a self defense?

What’s the advantage in doing that regardless of my alignment? If I’m town, then I know that the thing I would have done differently is I would have probably tried harder to save my scumbuddy (given the importance of not losing to a double guillo on D1 followed by D2) and counted on the WIFOM of “would mena really tried this hard to save their scumbuddy???” to try and save myself on D2, ad given that I know this is what’s different about how I’d approach this as scum I might as well share that. If I’m scum, then obviously I chose to play it that way but I’d have come up with an explanation overnight for why I acted that way that I might as well share.

In either case there’s also a strong motivation to not be guillo’d today in that if I’m town it means we can’t insta-win, whereas if I’m scum it’s an insta-loss.

The stakes are much much higher for scum right now. You even said something about not being all that upset about being mis-eliminated I believe? It doesnt make sense to me to jump in with a self-defence. It's much more advantageous to give people a chance to come to that conclusion without your help because by being the one stating it about yourself causes it to lose credit. Then there's extra added wifom about you being the one saying it. It's also overdefensive in my opinion.

[Raya36]

Fmpov, the issue is this: if snow is town, why are scum so committed to seeing her go through? Because I don’t think anyone else has been advocating that much for a snow!guillo other than me, and I know that I’m town and this is a town push on her. Whereas mohab very much only came up after the RCE wagon attempt had fallen apart

So if snow is town and mohab is scum, why aren’t the actual scum doing anything to resist mohab!flip or to back my snow push? Unless they’re entirely counting on my snow push as a defence of mohab, but that seems unlikely given that I can always change my mind and that putting all your eggs into the “letting a townie defend our scumbuddy” feels like a scumteam ceding far to much ground to be plausible

Yeah, this one

So with this knowledge, I now think this is exactly what was happening on D1 and I think I dismissed it too quickly

If you are town I would agree that this is probably correct

[Raya36]

My main concern is if you're scum (and I'm not convinced at all yet that you're not) then that "thought" could just be a set-up if a miselim were to occur and it's what you want us to think.

[Raya36]

The stakes are much much higher for scum right now. You even said something about not being all that upset about being mis-eliminated I believe? It doesnt make sense to me to jump in with a self-defence. It's much more advantageous to give people a chance to come to that conclusion without your help because by being the one stating it about yourself causes it to lose credit. Then there's extra added wifom about you being the one saying it. It's also overdefensive in my opinion.

Yes, they are, and it’s why I’m not going to fight my mis-guillotine if it comes, although obviously I’m still going to try to avoid it by making it as clear as possible that I’m town who was just ass-backward on D1.

I think we just disagree here Raya tbh. I don’t think that because something is self-meta it’s inherently less valid if people know that it’s true, and I think it’s fairly obvious I’d be trying to avoid being the guillotine today as either alignment, I’d just fight it harder as scum.

Ok I'm willing to agree to disagree and try to work out who is scum then if you really are town

[Raya36]

Ignore this:

Spoiler: orientation

So from my point of view this is who scum could be:

Something_Smart
Menalque
RCEnigma
Montosh
Ydrasse
Almost50

This is who was on the Snow wagon (counter wagon):
RCEnigma
Montosh
Almost50
Menalque

This is who was on the scum wagon:
Ydrasse
Something_Smart

Nobody was on any other wagons

[Raya36]

What do you think of RCE voting mohab fairly early on?

There wasn't much pressure to the vote at all. Just a vote and some questions. Could have been an attempt at distancing. I never actually saw any reasons for the vote or any mention of him until much later. I never even saw a response to his answers to the questions asked in the same vote as the post.

[Raya36]

gut is saying menalque is town but brain is saying we'd be stupid not to throw him overboard

I agree with this statement.

Part of me is wondering if Menalque would have been so obvious knowing there was a good chance of Mae getting eliminated. I half wanna say Menalque is town and scum are laying low in terms of their reads and pushes

[Raya36]

btw how do you pronounce your own name? there's actually a lot of ways when you really think about it

The dictionary way, which is "

oom

-lout"

Well I was not pronouncing that right hahahhahaha

[Raya36]

Raya why do you think you're not a performer for the play? you still have front row seats don't get me wrong so treat this as a fun question

Sorry completely missed this.

My guess is one of you don't like me or you don't know what my avatar is from to get a cool performance picture

[Raya36]

Raya why do you think you're not a performer for the play? you still have front row seats don't get me wrong so treat this as a fun question

Sorry completely missed this.

My guess is one of you don't like me or you don't know what my avatar is from to get a cool performance picture

the performers = people confirmed as town lol

~Eve

Ah I got ya now. I'd say because a few people were scumreading me and I was playing quite low-effort this game. Maybe easy to frame as sheeping/bussing because of that? And I'm not as obvtown as I normally am when I actually try. I'm a solid mis-elim target right now unfortunately

[Raya36]

I feel like Montosh is town

[Raya36]

So the thing is

We shouldn't just lynch someone today "because we're going to do it anyway" unless we actually believe they're the most likely scum, because we stand to win the game today if we guess correctly. And as long as

both

buddies weren't busing we have a decent chance of guessing correctly just by choosing the scummiest from the Snowblaze wagon.

I am a bit paranoid on further reflection that it would actually be a really cute scum strat to double-bus here because we have no other way of getting investigation results, so if town could be convinced that was "impossible" then scum have just won the game even with five clears as we lynch one Snowblaze voter after another. Seeing one of our clears is off the Mohab wagon does not make me feel any less paranoid in that regard, and I want to keep that in mind as at least a possibility, but I'm still willing to operate today on the more likely scenario that that's not what happened.

I'm happiest with whatever the town block votes as the most likely wagon to have scum the selecting the scumiest within that, that way there is the least scum influence as possible in that decision

[Raya36]

<Raya>
<Ydrasse, S_S>
<RCE>
<Montosh, Menalque, A50>

is where I'm at, pending a read of the games Menalque linked. Also want to point out, it's good if we get the unconfirmed to provide reads/make pushes, but let the final decision go with us. Yes? Yes?

~Eva

I agree. Everyone needs to participate but the final decision is with the townblock

[Raya36]

Thoughts on Mae wagon people:

Raya and Ydrasse both commited to townreading me and eliminating Mohab/Maemuki. Neither changed their mind despite being given plenty of opportunities to do so. If either of them is scum they were committing to the bus there.

It's pretty bad strategy for only one scum to bus their partner in this setup: they're sacrificing a member and confirming five town in exchange for towncred for one of them which is irrelevant if the other is eliminated. So I'm willing to say that Raya and Ydrasse are the same alignment, and that alignment is

probably

town.

I strongly agree that for this reason Ydrasse is very likely to share alignment with me which makes them town.


Something_Smart was also on the Mae wagon. I don't like him that much mainly because there's basically just empty questions and NAI statements up until his posts in the 600s. His vote onto the snowblaze wagon honestly felt like just not caring or being invested in the game and voting whoever he was asked to. That was actually the first time he had placed a vote. He unvotes Snow and then states that he's not against Mohab dying but doesn't want to kill an empty slot. So it's non-committal. Overall I do think S_S is more likely uncaring town than scum although if there is scum on the Mohab wagon it would be him.

[Raya36]

I've decided I would rather hunt within those on the Snow wagon since that seems much more likely to have scum

[Raya36]

I've decided I would rather hunt within those on the Snow wagon since that seems much more likely to have scum

This is probably fine. I’m pretty sceptical that both scum would have been on mohab which means that even if I’m mis-guillo’d there’s a 66% chance of winning, and if I’m not there’s a 100% chance in 3 flips unless both scum got onto mohab

Also if I’m wrong about S_S then even if I am mis-guillo’d then it’s just a guaranteed win to work through the entire snow wagon

I think actually the priority today should maybe be trying to clear people on mohab!wagon (so S_S, ydrasse, raya) becaus if we get to a point where we’re reasonably confident that none of them are scum (or that /at most/ one is scum) then it is basically winning to just go through snow!wagon

I'm suspicious about how concerned you are about getting miseliminated. I've been thinking you're town mainly based on not thinking scum would be as obvious as you were about defending their partner. But you do seem overly concerned about being killed

[Raya36]

I get that but you just seem overly concerned. I don't expect you as town to bring up your potential miselimination constantly. It feels like you're trying to drive it into our heads that if you get eliminated it'll be a miselimination

[Raya36]

Yes that could be helpful

[Raya36]

I think you're town. The first one is kinda similar to how you're playing this game now.

I want to lynch between these 3 based on thinking scum were on Snow's wagon and Menalque being a town read

RCEnigma
Montosh
Almost50

[Raya36]

I'll join that

VOTE: A50

[Raya36]

I remember there being some discussion about a possible townslip early game but I couldn't find it. Do you remember if that's what it was?

[Raya36]

Oh that's right. And you're conftown now anyway. Thank!

[Raya36]

Thanks*

[Raya36]

I'll join that

VOTE: A50

You -of all- know that I don't do "poor me" (as Umlaut referred to it) as scum.

You do look town enough here, but you also did look town in "the game we were scum together" and I think if you hadn't replaced out we would have won it. This is probably the one and only reason I am not 100% on you being town here, but I have no "in-game" case.

OK.. so eliminate me, but please treat my read on RCE as you would a "cop result in a Normal game" after my flip. fair enough?

You know of all people that I'm not a strong scum player. I won't let the flattery pocket me.

[Raya36]

i think all 3 scum were on your wagon and the only reason they didn't manage to lynch you was thanks to your high effort and solving so good job!

If this is true then we autowin just by lynching everyone but Frederick on the Snowblaze wagon, since we only need to get one more scum by Day 4 to win. Do we think that’s right?

Maybe it just is right, but there’s a whole lot of WIFOM to work through there.

I really want to say this is right since it makes the most logical sense to me. If scum was on the Mae wagon I would say S_S but I'm not convinced.

The thing making me squint is that you'd think scum would think of this and I'm sure they put some thought into who they confirmed.

In the end though I think the snow wagon has the most scum equity and we should be lynching there.

[Raya36]

I'd imagine the conftown are kind of holding back and trying to let everyone else play the game.

Seems like both sides think this is best for them

[Raya36]

I think S_S is town.

I think the whole Mae wagon was town and we should be eliminating the Snow wagon. And I'd still like to start with A50

[Raya36]

RCE(maybe Montosh but prob not)/A50 team?

[Raya36]

I still town read menalque. I won't be opposed to eliminating him tomorrow if we don't hit scum today but for now I want to go somewhere else.

I'd be happiest with A50 of course. I could do RCE or Montosh. I really do think at least 1 or both scum are within that group of 3.

[Raya36]

But it's also not me and I think we agreed that that would make Ydrasse town too? And I also don't think it's S_S and Ydrasse together?

[Raya36]

Ydrasse just doesnt make sense unless they're partners with me and they're not. And S_S makes no sense alone or with ydrasse to me. I really think we should be hunting within the snow wagon and I think the resistance to that from the unconfirmed is telling

[Raya36]

Okay raya, explain to me again why ydrasse only makes sense with you and not with anyone else in the unconfirmeds?

I'm gonna quote snowblaze to answer this since she explained it well

Raya and Ydrasse both commited to townreading me and eliminating Mohab/Maemuki. Neither changed their mind despite being given plenty of opportunities to do so. If either of them is scum they were committing to the bus there.

It's pretty bad strategy for only one scum to bus their partner in this setup: they're sacrificing a member and confirming five town in exchange for towncred for one of them which is irrelevant if the other is eliminated. So I'm willing to say that Raya and Ydrasse are the same alignment, and that alignment is

probably

town.

So by this logic me and Ydrasse are the same alignment which is town. And I don't see S_S bussing alone without their partner.

[Raya36]

and I think the resistance to that from the unconfirmed is telling

This is a very misguided take. For one thing; assuming both scum were on Snow means 3 of the "unconfirmed" were on mae (you being one of them), and they wouldn't be opposed to eliminating from the Snow wagon. and if there's Scum between them

they still wouldn't be opposed to it

.
For another thing: EVEN if both scum were on Snow, there were still two TOWNIES who were on Snow too (and are not confirmed), and they obviously still would rather not be the elimination target if they could help it, so it's not exactly "telling" either.

In fact; this is probably why I'm finding it hard to identify scum with confidence. It seems to me that almost everything going on now is a natural reaction to being pushed and is totally NAI because it would come from that player regardless of their true alignment. I thus suggest we go back to D1 and use it primarily over D2 for scum hunting.

Ok good points. Scratch that

[Raya36]

Random paranoia thought:

What if montosh is partnered to RCE or Menalque and is trying to direct the elimination away from them by making those walls about A50. Since montosh isn't in the elimination pool rn so they can do that more easily than RCE or Menalque could.

[Raya36]

In explanation:

I know I’m town. I do still err towards thinking that there was at least one scum backing my push.

RCE is probably town even though he reads super scummy, because of the way mohab talked about him and voted for him? Like she didn’t just say “I wouldn’t be surprised if he flipped scum” and then avoided it (covering for if he did get run up) she actually voted there — i.e. she was happy with a misguillo there?

A50 is probably slightly +town if RCE is town fr defending him although still a big idk there.

Leaves montosh who I also just don’t really townread at all

I feel like scum!menalque wouldn't say we should hunt in the snow wagon but then say that 2/3 besides himself are town?

[Raya36]

Also forgot to point out: scum can't bus today, which is why I asked the unconfirmed to make pushes. Not sure how well my plan worked, but I think everyone has been hardpushing A50 which maybe clears him(?)

~Eva

That's a good point. I'll go back through and actually see who pushed him and see if all the unconfirmed did. It would only clear him if there isn't any resistance

[Raya36]

I really don't want to go for Menalque today. I don't think their stance right now comes from scum

[Raya36]

I. Don't. Know !! I was talking to Eve earlier and we agreed in thinking even if Menalque's wrong, it's a shot we have to take. And we can't really agree on our more obscure reads.

What's the case on A50? Yesterday, he pushed Snow, but so did many other people, and today, he made a few posts that made people not like him, but I don't know if that's inherently scummy? Umlaut, where do you want to go?

~Eva

It was the whole poor me act as someone else called it that he started today. And then when he was praising my scum game it felt like he was trying to pocket me and change my mind on him

[Raya36]

I'm not super tied to A50 specifically, but I want to go somewhere on the Snowblaze wagon and not Menalque. I could do Montosh but I haven't seen anything I specifically didn't like there where I have from A50. Maaaaybe RCE, but I'm willing to put a decent amount of stock in the idea that we didn't see two mafia both play the "asking mech questions for towncred" game.

I'm in the same mindset as Umlaut here. I want someone on the snow wagon eliminated. I don't want it to be Menalque and I don't feel particularly bad about montosh but I could go there. Not fully attached to it being A50 so I could do RCE or Montosh. It's hard right now because everyone seems more or less equally scummy/towny on the Snow wagon besides menalque.

[Raya36]

I went through D2 roughly and I think all confirmed apart from S_S has been okay with A50 dying so unless that's the exact team ??/?/ But S_S is also not doing much to shift it away from S_S so maybe that still counts. I'd say gamestate-wise, it's not A50.

~Eva

Ok this is what I didn't have time to do this morning or last night or whenever lol

In that case UNVOTE: until I reevaluate. I think i want RCE or Montosh though

[Raya36]

Ok I'll do that too then

VOTE: RCE

[Raya36]

Since Eevee announced their secret plan for letting the unconfirmed do the pushes; I noticed only the CONFIRMED are switching their votes!!!

What conclusion do you come to from this?

[Raya36]

What do YOU conclude from it?

Nothing so I'm confused why you point it out and emphasize the word confirmed and have like 3 exclamation marks

[Raya36]

Interactions from Mohab/Maemuki to the unconfirmed

13 - RVS vote for Holden/Montosh

45 - dislikes Raya’s opening; disagrees with Porkens’s.

230 - reads list: town on Holden/Montosh, scum on RCE, null on Craig/Menalque

502 - RCE vote

503 - doesn’t understand the Holden wagon

879 - asks for S_S’s reasoning for the vote on her

Not much to go on, is there?

I do feel based on this RCE is probably town, unless Mohab was bussing which I find unlikely. The tone of 879 makes me feel S_S isn’t Maemuki’s partner, although I’m not convinced by that at all.

As for Holden/Montosh... I don’t quite know.

I didn't read over again for context but I think this is a game where scum would want to make sure they're well distanced from.their partners so this doesn't clear RCE

[Raya36]

Snowblaze, you’re online, do you think that’s crazy?

Well, firstly I think I'm not the best person to ask, but...

No. I'm starting to come round to the idea that there's actually quite a good chance of bussing. I don't want that to be the case, because I'd like to think I was towny enough under pressure to not have a nearly-all-town wagon on me.

But it makes sense. I'll elaborate tomorrow when I have more time.

I'm interested in this because I don't think it's likely considering the mechanics. Although maybe we're completely wrong to assume that scum coordinated whether they would bus or not. Maybe 1 scum was on Mae and 1 was on Snow?

[Raya36]

In explanation:

I know I’m town. I do still err towards thinking that there was at least one scum backing my push.

RCE is probably town even though he reads super scummy, because of the way mohab talked about him and voted for him? Like she didn’t just say “I wouldn’t be surprised if he flipped scum” and then avoided it (covering for if he did get run up) she actually voted there — i.e. she was happy with a misguillo there?

A50 is probably slightly +town if RCE is town fr defending him although still a big idk there.

Leaves montosh who I also just don’t really townread at all

I feel like scum!menalque wouldn't say we should hunt in the snow wagon but then say that 2/3 besides himself are town?

Why not? If it works to get someone else lynched then it is worth it.

Because it supports hunting on the wagon he was on and also limits the elimination-pool from that wagon which draws more attention on himself

[Raya36]

I think I want to actually go for either ydrasse or s_s. I'm starting to like the idea of 1 scum on each wagon. I still stand by ydrasse likely sharing alignment with me. So that makes it S_S

VOTE: S_S

[Raya36]

I never said it was insane for scum to bus, I said a double bus was insane. Because the instant the redflip hits the game goes completely out of scum's hands and they have no idea if people are going to conclude that bussing was likely. So if you double bus, you're essentially forcing that outcome, and then you have to survive two executions where five conftown players bounce ideas off of each other and you basically don't get to participate.

Normally the primary reason for bussing is to maintain control over the gamestate, but all of scum's control over the gamestate is gone if they lose a member in the first two days. So that leaves the only reason to bus is to look town or not look suspicious, but given that they have to confirm people, they can just confirm almost everyone on the wagon and then the majority of unconfirmed players are ones who didn't vote flipped scum.

Scum 2 and 3 are worried about interactions with scum 1 but not the interactions with each other. 2 scum elims ends the game so it's less "I've gotta distance and look good to stretch to lylo" and more about buying each other time.

Does anyone think scum!RCE would forget about scum escaping or try to play dumb?

[Raya36]

What do YOU conclude from it?

Nothing so I'm confused why you point it out and emphasize the word confirmed and have like 3 exclamation marks

It's an interesting observation regardless. Maybe it would be beneficial for "meta purposes" in future games (how some people can hop between wagons and appear indecisive when they are in fact town-aligned). It was more of a "Look! A Cow!!" kind of remark though. I had nothing specific in mind to "deduce" from it, but it was interesting nevertheless.

Oh alright, I assumed you were trying to shade someone with it or something but I couldn't figure out who

[Raya36]

I never said it was insane for scum to bus, I said a double bus was insane. Because the instant the redflip hits the game goes completely out of scum's hands and they have no idea if people are going to conclude that bussing was likely. So if you double bus, you're essentially forcing that outcome, and then you have to survive two executions where five conftown players bounce ideas off of each other and you basically don't get to participate.

Normally the primary reason for bussing is to maintain control over the gamestate, but all of scum's control over the gamestate is gone if they lose a member in the first two days. So that leaves the only reason to bus is to look town or not look suspicious, but given that they have to confirm people, they can just confirm almost everyone on the wagon and then the majority of unconfirmed players are ones who didn't vote flipped scum.

Scum 2 and 3 are worried about interactions with scum 1 but not the interactions with each other. 2 scum elims ends the game so it's less "I've gotta distance and look good to stretch to lylo" and more about buying each other time.

Does anyone think scum!RCE would forget about scum escaping or try to play dumb?

This is only in the context of scum distancing early game. Not literally forgetting that scum escapes day 3.

Alright, thanks for clearing that up

[Raya36]

I think I want to actually go for either ydrasse or s_s. I'm starting to like the idea of 1 scum on each wagon. I still stand by ydrasse likely sharing alignment with me. So that makes it S_S

VOTE: S_S

Where was the explanation for this again?

~Eva

Okay raya, explain to me again why ydrasse only makes sense with you and not with anyone else in the unconfirmeds?

I'm gonna quote snowblaze to answer this since she explained it well

Raya and Ydrasse both commited to townreading me and eliminating Mohab/Maemuki. Neither changed their mind despite being given plenty of opportunities to do so. If either of them is scum they were committing to the bus there.

It's pretty bad strategy for only one scum to bus their partner in this setup: they're sacrificing a member and confirming five town in exchange for towncred for one of them which is irrelevant if the other is eliminated. So I'm willing to say that Raya and Ydrasse are the same alignment, and that alignment is

probably

town.

So by this logic me and Ydrasse are the same alignment which is town. And I don't see S_S bussing alone without their partner.

[Raya36]

｡･:*:･ﾟ★,｡･:*:･ﾟ☆

~Eve

The star link was just too tempting

[Raya36]

Yo, S_S, raya, umlaut, snow
Pick a goddamn wagon let’s get this show on the road

I'm trying to

[Raya36]

Yo, S_S, raya, umlaut, snow
Pick a goddamn wagon let’s get this show on the road

I don't like menalque wagon or ydrasse wagon. But I prefer menalque between the two I guess

[Raya36]

VOTE: Something_Smart

I hypothesize that Something_Smart is in the mafia with Montosh.

Can we get a wagon here? That would be a wagon I'd actually be happy with. Already two votes. 2 days left to make it happen

[Raya36]

VOTE: Something_Smart

I hypothesize that Something_Smart is in the mafia with Montosh.

Can we get a wagon here? That would be a wagon I'd actually be happy with. Already two votes. 2 days left to make it happen

Why? Just because you're "starting to like the idea of 1 scum on each wagon"?

From the start I thought if there was someone on each wagon it would be you.

Something_Smart was also on the Mae wagon. I don't like him that much mainly because there's basically just empty questions and NAI statements up until his posts in the 600s. His vote onto the snowblaze wagon honestly felt like just not caring or being invested in the game and voting whoever he was asked to. That was actually the first time he had placed a vote. He unvotes Snow and then states that he's not against Mohab dying but doesn't want to kill an empty slot. So it's non-committal. Overall I do think S_S is more likely uncaring town than scum although if there is scum on the Mohab wagon it would be him.

I sorted you as uncaring town rather than scum but I'm starting to think otherwise. That read was influenced by me believing that both scum were on the snow wagon. Now I'm not as attached to that idea so I believe that there's a good chance of you being scum.

[Raya36]

Snowblaze, you’re online, do you think that’s crazy?

Well, firstly I think I'm not the best person to ask, but...

No. I'm starting to come round to the idea that there's actually quite a good chance of bussing. I don't want that to be the case, because I'd like to think I was towny enough under pressure to not have a nearly-all-town wagon on me.

But it makes sense. I'll elaborate tomorrow when I have more time.

I'm interested in this because I don't think it's likely considering the mechanics. Although maybe we're completely wrong to assume that scum coordinated whether they would bus or not. Maybe 1 scum was on Mae and 1 was on Snow?

Snowblaze, you’re online, do you think that’s crazy?

Well, firstly I think I'm not the best person to ask, but...

No. I'm starting to come round to the idea that there's actually quite a good chance of bussing. I don't want that to be the case, because I'd like to think I was towny enough under pressure to not have a nearly-all-town wagon on me.

But it makes sense. I'll elaborate tomorrow when I have more time.

Okay. Here’s what I was thinking. It was pretty clear yesterday by a certain point that the wagons were me/Mohab, and that wasn’t likely to change. If I’d been eliminated yesterday Mohab would almost certainly have been next. So if scum successfully push my elimination they’ve got one miselimination, they still have to confirm five townies and they look bad for pushing the town counterwagon to scum.

But if they bus their team-mate, they’re sacrificing the opportunity to miseliminate me, but my wagon then looks terrible without scum associated with it and the scum get plenty of towncred because “the setup punishes bussing, there’s no way there was scum on this wagon”.

I'm thinking scum maybe didn't coordinate that they would both bus and went with 1 on and 1 off. Or maybe one was in a position that they couldn't bus. I now think it's wrong to say scum couldn't have bussed in this set-up unless both bus together.

Also I feel like scum would know that the snow wagon is the more obvious choice to hunt within in this set-up. So if they were both on it why only leave 4 unconfirmed on it? That would make it a 50% random chance of hitting scum if town decided to hunt exclusively on the counter wagon. I think having 3 unconfirmed on the Mae wagon and 4 unconfirmed on the Snow wagon would make a lot if sense in a situation where there was scum on each.

[Raya36]

That was it's a 25% random chance on the more obvious wagon to hunt within. And a 33% random chance on the less likely choice to hunt within. This would be the ideal distribution for scum if one was on each wagon.

[Raya36]

Ok I get it's a weak argument but show me a strong opposing argument. It can easily go both ways. I said that scum couldn't bus btw. I'm saying this is why I disagree with myself. Why are you so against there being scum on each wagon?

[Raya36]

Think of it also as PoE. I don't think it's ydrasse, I don't think its menalque. I'm not interested in RCE. So that only leaves you, Montosh, A50. A50 never really got anywhere. I'm not convinced on that anymore. I'm kinda leaning towards Montosh and you. One on each wagon.

My vote on you is for a bunch of reasons.
-PoE
-I believe scum is on each wagon
-I found your play scummy and only assumed uncaring town because I was convinced no scum was on the Mae wagon. I don't believe that anymore so I'm not clearing you as town for that anymore

[Raya36]

Thanks Fred

[Raya36]

This conversation is going in circles, S_S

Tell me why I'm wrong that you're scum

[Raya36]

Something_Smart was also on the Mae wagon. I don't like him that much mainly because there's basically just empty questions and NAI statements up until his posts in the 600s. His vote onto the snowblaze wagon honestly felt like just not caring or being invested in the game and voting whoever he was asked to. That was actually the first time he had placed a vote. He unvotes Snow and then states that he's not against Mohab dying but doesn't want to kill an empty slot. So it's non-committal. Overall I do think S_S is more likely uncaring town than scum although if there is scum on the Mohab wagon it would be him.

[Raya36]

Ok.

-Empty questions and NAI statements to 600s. - easy for scum to do, busywork, no opinions or stances given
-Snowblaze vote seemed uncaring - easy for scum to just vote the person they're told to vote when that person is town. Easy to get away with it too
non-committal - keeps options open as scum

[Raya36]

It's not just that it's easy. It's that it's easy and puts you in an open position to move your vote around as needed. Of course lazy town can do all of that as well but in combination with believing that scum is on each wagon and PoE it points to you.

[Raya36]

I was in an open position to move my vote around as needed... and I ended up voting scum. You yourself admit that I didn't need to since I didn't lock myself into any particular vote (something I rarely do as any alignment but am way more likely to do as scum, FYI), so I could have easily voted Snowblaze instead; in fact I WAS voting Snowblaze and I chose to reevaluate and switch to Mohab because I thought Snowblaze was being towny.

And then you circle it back around to the one scum on each wagon bit. I know you think that, I already know you don't have a good reason to think it. You said I was scummy, so I'm asking for reasons why I'm scummy, regardless of the VCA.

Or you switched your vote because you realized Mae was going down and you decided to bus to get town-cred. I gave you many reasons outside or VCA

[Raya36]

I'm having a very hard time seeing this being in good faith. It's really surface level and it feels like you're using other people's VCA reasoning as a crutch while insisting the read is your own.

VOTE: Raya

You're not wrong. I am using the reads of the conf town because I know I can trust their reads. That's not it though. I gave my reasons, surface level or not it's what I believe is true. It's not like I'm blindly sleeping them and I'm not claiming the read to be my own.

[Raya36]

Idk but I think she’s plausible as scum with ydrasse so I’d rather just guillo ydrasse which this feels like a distraction from

We can go ydrasse if everyone really wants to. I still think Snow is right and me and ydrasse share alignments though

[Raya36]

Or you switched your vote because you realized Mae was going down and you decided to bus to get town-cred.

Where is the evidence that Mohab was going down? Snowblaze was ahead before I voted, iirc.

Ok even so you may have decided just to bus for town cred

[Raya36]

Sure, if I thought the towncred was worth getting five townies confirmed.

As I've said multiple times I wouldn't expect scum to put their eggs into the basket of "town will think scum wouldn't bus" because bussing accusations are common even in situations where bussing really does make no sense (and it does make some sense here).

Ok UNVOTE:

I really don't know anymore and I think we're really close to deadline

[Raya36]

Now I'm back to the same position where I don't like either of the major wagon and we're close to deadline :/

[Raya36]

Raya, then why have you been sitting on NV? Who do you want?

I just unvoted at the bottom of the last page. I think I want A50 or Montosh honestly. I'm not really feeling RCE anymore

[Raya36]

I mean the Menalque wagon lacks a single conftown so yeah

Good observation. Maybe that's a sign scum is ok with this lynch?

[Raya36]

She literally just unvoted lol

Raya can you talk to me about Ydrasse? It seems like the source for you saying you share an alignment with her was a Snowblaze post saying that she didn't think there would be one on Mohab and one off, and that's why she thought you and Ydrasse were the same alignment, but obviously that logic can't hold now if you think one-on one-off is likely. So why do you townread Ydrasse?

Actually you're right. That's a flaw in my logic I missed. I guess I can no longer clear ydrasse for that reason.

[Raya36]

Actually you're right. That's a flaw in my logic I missed. I guess I can no longer clear ydrasse for that reason.

Why did you accept that logic to begin with? Just because it came from conftown?

No, because I strongly believed in the wagon distribution of scum that went along with that logic. With that it only made sense for me and ydrasse to share alignments. It didn't occur to me until you pointed it out that I can no long town read him for that reason if I now believe scum was on each wagon

[Raya36]

Or A50?

I’m starting to wonder if I wrote him off too quickly, but on a readback, I didn’t find him as scummy.

~Eva

I could do A50, I don't really understand what caused anyone to townread him. Show of hands?

Me. A50 is too easy to wagon for the unconfirmed. He admitted he was wrong and ate his humble pie.

I agree with this. I'm not happy with an A50 lynch

[Raya36]

I'll check back in the morning. I'm still not happy with either of the major wagons rn

[Raya36]

I still don't like it but it's better than ydrasse or menalque

VOTE: A50

A50 is at E-1

[Raya36]

I havent read up yet but I guess it's probably menalque.

VOTE: Menalque

[Raya36]

I havent read up yet but I guess it's probably menalque.

VOTE: Menalque

yesterday you townread him and would go for anything else so why the change of heart?

maybe i need to host another play to motivate everyone

~Eve

Because now he was the lead pusher of 2 town miseliminations. That's really really bad.

I do still have a layer of wifom in my head where I'm wondering if scum would be so obvious but I don't think Menalque can get a pass anymore after doing it twice and I'm gonna be very mad at myself if he is scum and we let him live after that.

[Raya36]

can we like actually vote in a50/mena today though

the two people who have been on one attempted and one successful town elimination?

Those are my preferred eliminations for sure. Kinda preferring menalque honestly. Probably worse to have doubts on his slot tomorrow if we end up being wrong on the elimination today

[Raya36]

can we like actually vote in a50/mena today though

the two people who have been on one attempted and one successful town elimination?

It’s lowkey kinda scummy to be shading me for the montosh wagon when it was literally me and A50 + every conftown in the game

How when you two are literally her preferred pool?

Because it’s weird to be shading me for being on a wagon that literally every conftown in the game was ultimately okay with even if only begrudgingly in the case of umlaut and eevee?

Her shading me *in general* is like ehh whatever

Her arguing *in particular* that it’s scummy to be on a wagon that I know is at least 6/7 town and which to every conftown was 5/7 town is just scummy, because it was good faith and it was a reasonable enough belief that montosh was scum given that

every single conftown was willing to go there in the end

Honestly I think it's worse when a lot of conftown are on a wagon and only a couple unconfirmed are as well. It means the unconfirmed who weren't on it weren't on a mislynching wagon. So if scum was on that town wagon (which is quite likely) it would have to be within the few uncomfirmed on it.

[Raya36]

Idk if that made any sense. I worded it weird

[Raya36]

I’d really prefer and RCE guillo today but I doubt I’m going to get it

Why?

[Raya36]

can we like actually vote in a50/mena today though

the two people who have been on one attempted and one successful town elimination?

It’s lowkey kinda scummy to be shading me for the montosh wagon when it was literally me and A50 + every conftown in the game

How when you two are literally her preferred pool?

Because it’s weird to be shading me for being on a wagon that literally every conftown in the game was ultimately okay with even if only begrudgingly in the case of umlaut and eevee?

Her shading me *in general* is like ehh whatever

Her arguing *in particular* that it’s scummy to be on a wagon that I know is at least 6/7 town and which to every conftown was 5/7 town is just scummy, because it was good faith and it was a reasonable enough belief that montosh was scum given that

every single conftown was willing to go there in the end

There was little to no discussion about Montosh being scummy. You made a case last 24h of deadline that Montosh didn't have time to refute or defend.

That's not good faith it's a rushed elimination.

Lol, okay RCE

RCE makes a good point though

[Raya36]

I find RCE really really townie actually.

~Eva

I agree

[Raya36]

What does everyone think of an A50/Menalque team? I remember it was in Snow's list of unlikely but I forget why

[Raya36]

Hmmmm.

[Raya36]

I say we lynch there. Preference being Menalque. Too much is going against then right now and I think they're trying to ride out the too scummy to be scum card

[Raya36]

That's exactly what I'm thinking too

[Raya36]

Ok well that's 3 for menalque/A50. I think that's a pretty safe bet

[Raya36]

can we like actually vote in a50/mena today though

the two people who have been on one attempted and one successful town elimination?

Those are my preferred eliminations for sure. Kinda preferring menalque honestly. Probably worse to have doubts on his slot tomorrow if we end up being wrong on the elimination today

Right, and you want me now despite me *specifically offering myself up yesterday for this exact reason*

C O N V E N I E N T

You've been pointing fingers a lot. And your cases are leading to miseliminations. I thought you were too scummy to be scum. Now I just think you're scum

[Raya36]

can we like actually vote in a50/mena today though

the two people who have been on one attempted and one successful town elimination?

It’s lowkey kinda scummy to be shading me for the montosh wagon when it was literally me and A50 + every conftown in the game

How when you two are literally her preferred pool?

Because it’s weird to be shading me for being on a wagon that literally every conftown in the game was ultimately okay with even if only begrudgingly in the case of umlaut and eevee?

Her shading me *in general* is like ehh whatever

Her arguing *in particular* that it’s scummy to be on a wagon that I know is at least 6/7 town and which to every conftown was 5/7 town is just scummy, because it was good faith and it was a reasonable enough belief that montosh was scum given that

every single conftown was willing to go there in the end

Honestly I think it's worse when a lot of conftown are on a wagon and only a couple unconfirmed are as well. It means the unconfirmed who weren't on it weren't on a mislynching wagon. So if scum was on that town wagon (which is quite likely) it would have to be within the few uncomfirmed on it.

Are you just intending to openwolf today or?

Tell me what's wrong with my logic

[Raya36]

I’d really prefer and RCE guillo today but I doubt I’m going to get it

Why?

Like if you were reading my posts you’d know because i already explained

Ok I'll read back through and see what I missed. My bad

[Raya36]

Someone else wanna tell me what's wrong with my logic then?

[Raya36]

Like how often does a mislynching wagon have all town on it? Like never. So if the majority of the wagon is conftown then the unconfirmed on the wagon have a very high chance of being scum. Right?

[Raya36]

The only thing here is if scum anticipated this and completely stayed off the wagon. Which maybe is possible but I still think unlikely

[Raya36]

So you think what I'm saying here is not true?

[Raya36]

So you think what I'm saying here is not true?

I disagree with your logic, yes. There's no rule saying that at least one scum has to be on every town execution wagon. Even if in a vacuum every town wagon is likely to have at least one scum on it, that changes when the majority of the wagon is conftown.

Alright. Scratch that then

[Raya36]

Actually, does anyone think there’s a realistic chance that any of the teams I’ve eliminated are the scumteam?

You really don't think menalque could be scum with anyone?

[Raya36]

I'm still debating the idea that the whole vote on A50 thing then make a last minute case on montosh was a gambit. I mean if A50 and Menalque are scum together that was probably the best move for distancing and also a final last scramble to get the elimination on someone else

[Raya36]

I'm still debating the idea that the whole vote on A50 thing then make a last minute case on montosh was a gambit. I mean if A50 and Menalque are scum together that was probably the best move for distancing and also a final last scramble to get the elimination on someone else

A gambit that may have cost them the game.

But the wagon on A50 was already building up. Menalque not voting A50 likely wouldn't stop it

[Raya36]

There has to be at least one scum in (RCE, Raya, S_S) imo, since I don't think it's plausible that any of Menalque/Ydrasse/A50 are partnered with each other.

@everyone: who do you think is most likely scum in those three?

Missed this. I guess S_S if any. I think RCE is town now

[Raya36]

No worries, do you agree that it's possible A50 and Menalque could be a team? That whole wagon redirect from A50 to town by Menalque was too bad for me to ignore and reads exactly as desperate scum to me.

[Raya36]

Hey Snow, what do you think of my A50/Menalque theory?

[Raya36]

Hey Snow, what do you think of my A50/Menalque theory?

The post literally above yours is an explanation from me of why I don't think it's likely.

I know but we're looking at the same thing two different ways and I was wondering what you thought of my take on it

[Raya36]

Only the first point. I see the flaw in saying that scum must be on the wagon therefore must be within the unconfirmed on the wagon.

But I do think there's a chance menalque was desperately trying to get the wagon off of A50

[Raya36]

The wagon wasn't really in that bad of a position until close to deadline anyway

[Raya36]

Raya, is your case that Menalque is scum dependent on A50 being scum? If so, wouldn't it make more sense to lynch A50 today?

Yeah I guess I could do that.

VOTE: A50

[Raya36]

The wagon wasn't really in that bad of a position until close to deadline anyway

Umlaut’s vote for A50, the second on the wagon. occurred at 3:46 am, GMT + 1 on the 30th of July (using my own time zone to avoid getting confused by conversions). It was followed by Fredrick’s at 3:52 am and Eevee’s at 4:32 am.

Menalque posted at 4.40 am, not exactly trying to halt the wagon in its tracks. He voted for A50 at 5:09 am.

His Montosh case was made at 1:51 pm on the same day.

Day two ended at 2:32 am on the 31st, a little while before deadline.

It’s not

impossible

, but imo it’s highly unlikely.

I guess I'm probably just wrong then. It does seem pretty unlikely.

[Raya36]

I've basically decided that S_S is town now. I've been going back and forth on him in my head lately but I think I like him as town

[Raya36]

I've basically decided that S_S is town now. I've been going back and forth on him in my head lately but I think I like him as town

Why?

I found his recent series of posts to show a town perspective.
1832 is a good point and something I think scum would rather let slip by and happen rather than point out why it benefits town to not discuss further.
1835 admitting he was wrong and unvoting. Admitting his votes are jumbled. It shows genuine town progression rather than an agenda.
1893 admits he isn't pulling much weight in scumhunting which I expect to come from town over scum.

[Raya36]

Yeah... I'll move back to Menalque

VOTE: Menalque
That's E-1!

[Raya36]

So good chance Ydrasse is town based on the reaction to Menalque pretending to be scum, right? And maybe S_S for going along with the act?

[Raya36]

Wait. S_S is scum lol

[Raya36]

Give me some time. I'm gonna look into S_S and Mae/Mohab interactions and hopefully we can figure this out. We gotta keep in mind that S_S was likely the better choice interaction-wise compared to their living partner though

[Raya36]

Also we only have 4 people to hunt within.

What are you takes on what I mentioned about Ydrasse and their reaction to Menalque saying they were scum? I think it was genuine? And if I'm right then it's either RCE or A50 and I'm leaving A50.

I still need to check interactions though

[Raya36]

Also another thing to mention. Do not bring anyone to E-1. Scum win if someone is brought to E-1 and they quick-eliminate.

P-edit: right lol ok so ydrasse is valid as well. Still only 3 for me to hunt within so not horrible

[Raya36]

Ok thanks, I'll keep that in mind when I go through the interactions in an hour or so

[Raya36]

It seems she had scum points for all the unconfirmed

I'll give it a closer look later

[Raya36]

The A50 and Ydrasse interactions read strongly as TvS in some order to me

[Raya36]

RCEnigma:

-SS has as town early game
-SS agreed that RCE's vote looked bad
-SS agrees that there are bad points on RCE but townreads anyway
-SS has RCE as top townread
-Nothing noteworthy from RCE mentioning SS

Based on that I'd say SS townread RCE too heavily to be partners. Especially since if they were partners I think SS would be the one still in game to hide that association.

Almost50:

-SS lightly defended A50
-Very little noteworthy mention outside of that
-A50 had SS as null
-A50 was pretty adamant about SS being scum. If this was scum theater or distancing I'd expect SS to actually interact a bit? I don't think he did?

I don't see this being super likely based on the last point I made but it could have been A50 doing all the distancing work?

Ydrasse:

-SS says the idea of him and ydrasse together would be crazy
-SS votes Ydrasse
-SS explains to me why I can't continue to clear Ydrasse as scum with my old logic
-SS continued to push Ydrasse but then unvoted when someone pointed out that it contradicts other statements he made
-Ydrasse votes SS early
-Says many times that she wants an SS elimination but has her vote elsewhere
-Starts to townread SS

I can see this being early distancing from both of them. The thing that pings me the most is while both of them were scumreading each other they weren't really responding to each other and interacting. Unless I'm somehow entirely missing that?
Usually when it's TvS or TvT interactions come out of scumreads/cases/votes. So I find it really weird that they were going after each other while never defending themselves to the other?

[Raya36]

So basically as of now I want to eliminate Ydrasse based off of interactions. The other two just don't make sense in my opinion

[Raya36]

I think that's a reasonable view snow. Point b especially

[Raya36]

Well I'm going to start us off

VOTE: Ydrasse

Remember not to bring anyone to E-1 which is 4 votes. Scum can quick-elim and win.
3 votes is the max we can have on one player. Treat E-2 as the point to state intent.

[Raya36]

I will say it makes a lot of sense that if one scum bused then they both bused so happy to look at the Mohab wagon with a fresh eye.

I'd agree it looks a lot more likely. No buss means it's me or A50. A50 doubled down on SS elim yesterday. If it's me there was a ton of unnecessary cross-bussing going on.

My gut says Raya but menalque and Titus were both set on ydrasse.

I guess it likely was a double bus then because I just don't see it being anyone other than Ydrasse rn. You and A50 just don't make any sense.

I wonder if Ydrasse supported or argued against it being a double bus? I'll look into that

[Raya36]

things of note to me:

1

- the entire exchange that s_s and raya had during the early 1500s, postwise, feels in retrospect to me like a half-hearted svs fight that doesn't really go anywhere and it doesn't get traction. to her part, raya sticks to it for a little bit after going back and forth on whether or not scum would bus. she's for it for a little bit, then against it, and then the vote on s_s comes down. i think that the reasons aren't really that strong, and raya seemed okay to disengage from the s_s push despite not being a fan of the ongoing wagons at the time. now it seems like a weird theater thing going on especially given that s_s was willing to throw down the vote onto her as well in 1519.

in general, i think that the "pushes" they did on one another are pretty half-hearted and there was never a real drive to get a lot of momentum onto either of them. there was some efforts to get people to consider the two of them respectively but not a great wagon. s_s made posts like 1539 where he sort of piggybacked off of montosh asking about raya, but in general he never made an effort for people to wagon onto her. this plays into 1835 and 1836 respectively, where he brings back his raya sr which feels super performative to me ("Probably a moot point since there doesn't seem to be nearly enough support to kill her.") i even asked about why raya wasn't an option to him and it was just "no one was voting her and no one was interested". which... i guess is probably what a scum!s_s wants for his partner, lmao. it feels like distancing though.

2

- the fact that he was happy to throw out a raya/me scumteam in 1835 despite it going against his philosophy this entire game of 1 off/1 on feels like a slip-up to me, where he forgot that he was supposed to be pushing for the game to be read a certain way.

3

- 1554 from s_s, 1557 from raya. this is from the perspective of where i am now, but i feel like this might have been a way for s_s to allow raya a way to ease out of her townread on me later down the road in order to push on me when and if it was convenient. it seems weird that s_s, still voting raya, still happy to place that fos on her, would bring up this odd point. like yeah it could be to discredit her logic in that moment but here i am now.

4

- 1973 feels at odds with the analysis she provided on me and my interactions with s_s. "better choice interaction-wise" doesn't really... feel coherent when it's compared to the times that s_s has said it's crazy that we would be paired. also to be frank i don't see how i am better off here not escaping between me/s_s but that's the Bias.

5

- raya in general has done this sort of back and forth with clearing me for odd reasons, i feel. the first being that she thought that she and i were aligned and that she walked it back after talking to s_s, and the second being her thinking that i was genuine for my reaction to the game "ending". yes, it is easy to fake, everyone knows this, but the moment where she was believing me feels more like her trying to hedge towards a former tr on me before walking it back (1977) when all of the scrutiny is on me.

so yeah. wee. i think that raya is the big bad wolf, like subscribe and comment. i might do the reverse (s_s regarding raya) tomorrow.

1 - I don't know what to say to the first part except that it's not theater and I was genuinely unsure on what the bussing situation could be and my read on SS was quite dependent on that. I do wish I kept at that though since I was clearly on the right track questioning him about being against a double bus.

2- That's ss not me

3- That was also mostly ss. All I can say is that SS was right.

4- That was just kind of an afterthought. Not really much you can do with it. I never really looked into whether Ydrasse or SS would have been the better escape choice though. Kind of a hard thing to look into though.

5- Where is the scum motivation in that? That's just me being indecisive as usual

[Raya36]

A quick iso on Ydrasse searching "bus" brings up that she apparently didn't state an opinion.

I also double checked her stances so far on D4
The biggest thing I noticed is that she's open for me or A50. She's obviously pushing me but she said it's between me and A50.

Next if you check A50... wants Ydrasse eliminated and to my understanding doesn't want me or RCE eliminated?
Now RCE... is debating between me or Ydrasse. Gut says me but knows that Menalque and Titus were both set on Ydrasse
And for myself I can only see it being Ydrasse

So of the unconfirmed players only 2 are keeping options open and that's Ydrasse and RCE and RCE makes no sense based on associations.

[Raya36]

@The Worst
I don't have time to wrote out a full response about Ydrasse right now but this is where I checked interactions and by PoE decided it was Ydrasse. I also note later on that me and A50 are set on one player to eliminate today while RCE and Ydrasse have 2 that they're deciding between which keeps options open. Obviously I don't think its RCE so that further supports it being Ydrasse. I can say more later

RCEnigma:

-SS has as town early game
-SS agreed that RCE's vote looked bad
-SS agrees that there are bad points on RCE but townreads anyway
-SS has RCE as top townread
-Nothing noteworthy from RCE mentioning SS

Based on that I'd say SS townread RCE too heavily to be partners. Especially since if they were partners I think SS would be the one still in game to hide that association.

Almost50:

-SS lightly defended A50
-Very little noteworthy mention outside of that
-A50 had SS as null
-A50 was pretty adamant about SS being scum. If this was scum theater or distancing I'd expect SS to actually interact a bit? I don't think he did?

I don't see this being super likely based on the last point I made but it could have been A50 doing all the distancing work?

Ydrasse:

-SS says the idea of him and ydrasse together would be crazy
-SS votes Ydrasse
-SS explains to me why I can't continue to clear Ydrasse as scum with my old logic
-SS continued to push Ydrasse but then unvoted when someone pointed out that it contradicts other statements he made
-Ydrasse votes SS early
-Says many times that she wants an SS elimination but has her vote elsewhere
-Starts to townread SS

I can see this being early distancing from both of them. The thing that pings me the most is while both of them were scumreading each other they weren't really responding to each other and interacting. Unless I'm somehow entirely missing that?
Usually when it's TvS or TvT interactions come out of scumreads/cases/votes. So I find it really weird that they were going after each other while never defending themselves to the other?

[Raya36]

For sure, just didn't have the time to do it this morning but I'm here now.

So a big part of why I think it's Ydrasse is PoE. RCE and A50 both make no sense as scum with their SS interactions. I explained why I believe this in the post I quoted above so I won't go into detail here. I do know that doesn't really help you sort me though since I can convince you all I want that RCE and A50 aren't scum with SS but I look pretty bad right now, not gonna lie.

Another small concern I have is that me and A50 are set on one player being scum. RCE (who makes no sense with SS) and Ydrasse both have their options open by having 2 people they're deciding between. That way if nobody believes I'm scum Ydrasse has someone they can bounce to. This isn't anything strong though but just a supporting point.

I will admit I don't have a big case like Ydrasse has on me but I know I'm town and I strongly believe RCE and A50 are town based on associations so while it's not much to convince others, I'm convinced it's Ydrasse.

[Raya36]

I'll be around for a bit also

[Raya36]

Then I would ask for an explanation because I'm not seeing it

[Raya36]

@Raya, can you link a few of your scumgames please?

~Eva

viewtopic.php?t=72267 - Killed N1
viewtopic.php?t=72456 - Survived and won
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=74101 - Eliminated D2

[Raya36]

I'm not being serious. I kinda think it's Raya :s

I promise it's not me

[Raya36]

I'm not being serious. I kinda think it's Raya :s

I promise it's not me

Gonna need you to upgrade this to a pinkie promise, please.

I pinkie promise it's not me

[Raya36]

@Raya, can you link a few of your scumgames please?

~Eva

viewtopic.php?t=72267 - Killed N1
viewtopic.php?t=72456 - Survived and won
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=74101 - Eliminated D2

Raya, all these were from a while ago. Got any more recent ones?

~Eva

I can look again but I don't roll scum very often

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=83530 - Killed N1

[Raya36]

i think it’s unfair to say that me feeling like i have to eliminate raya is a scumpoint and it isn’t the same in reverse. like... yeah? everyone here has basically made up their minds i feel like and i’m working against the tide of everyone. no one can say raya needs to feel like she has to get me out today because 1) she’s been allowed this entire game to go under the radar it feels like and everyone’s kind of given her a townread for most of the game and 2) she isn’t in a position where she’s the person who is gonna get voted out currently so she doesn’t have any reason to push harder until that pressure’s on her.

I mean I would disagree from my point of view. There's a much stronger case on me than there is on you I think. I just happen to know that case on me is wrong

[Raya36]

also saying that i ~have my options open in case i need to move off of her is untrue at this point from raya. i’ve made it abundantly clear that i’m not moving my vote at this point and that this is where i’m saying.

if i’m scum for having to consider between two people for a bit before voting then whatever i guess. sorry for not knowing the second i come into a new day. but i’m clearly not going to pivot off onto anyone else.

It's clear you're not going to switch to A50 but that's only because there's a much higher chance to get my killed over A50. If A50 was receiving more heat than you would be switching over there as scum. That's not the case

[Raya36]

So good chance Ydrasse is town based on the reaction to Menalque pretending to be scum, right? And maybe S_S for going along with the act?

Raya, can you say what changed your mind about this? (Obviously remembering S_S is scum changed your mind there but was that alone enough to change your mind about Ydrasse too?)

Well that was an initial thought and then yes? SS being scum changed my mind about calling ydrasse almost definite town. My read on Ydrasse now comes from PoE, not just SS being scum.

[Raya36]

All I'm saying is from my point of view and with PoE you must be scum so that's what I see that you're doing. I'm not trying to tell everyone else they should believe that. I'm just saying that that's what makes sense to me from my POV.

Also while more people may think you're scum your case on me is much stronger than any case on you. I'm in a really bad position as far as wagons and voting went

[Raya36]

sorry if that sounds mean but at this point raya’s just sitting here trying to claim we’re in the same position and it’s super frustrating that this entire time and gets asked like one or two questions, can just say “oh she’s scum by poe” after like, more or less claiming we are the same alignment only UNTIL the mafia gave her a way to recant it and everyone is like yeah... she’s town i believe her.

p-edit: aren’t we on basically the same wagons though??

Well the reason to call us both town is proven wrong anyway since it was on the assumption scum wouldn't have bussed.

If you really are town tell me who scum is. Because it's not me. And by association I don't think it's RCE or A50. It's going to take a lot of convincing to make me believe it's A50 who is who you were suggesting aside from me.

[Raya36]

i’m a mess typing because i’m at work and i’m really sorry if i sound like, Personally mad or anything too because that’s not the case but gamewise i wanna throw down!!!

Don't worry about it. Nothing game related is personal

[Raya36]

I can look again but I don't roll scum very often

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=83530 - Killed N1

Thanks! (How do you keep getting *killed* as scum?)

Anyway, I still think Raya’s towny. There’s been some flashes of raw townieness she’s shown here that I don’t think scum!her can’t replicate.

~Eva

I can't even remember. I guess probably vigged?

[Raya36]

i’m not going to tell you anyone other than you??? i’ve already said why i townread a50 in this situation and i’m not going to go back on that.

why do you keep framing this like i am inevitably going to switch? because i had two people in mind at the start of the day? you seem to keep emphasizing that i am only on you out of convenience.

Again from my point of view that's the only thing I can see possible. I can't see it being A50 or RCE and if you're scum I'm the smart convenient push

[Raya36]

Idk if you want self-meta but for what it's worth I don't consider myself an aggressive player regardless of alignment even in 1v1 situations