In post 1707, Gentleman 3 wrote:I feel as though you've got something backwards here. You're not interested in my thoughts because if I'm scum they're prefabricated; very well, but if I'm scum then all of my thoughts are fabricated regardless. If I am town, they are quite real. So as I was trying to get at earlier, what is the specific reason to believe the scum case over the town case?
Moreover, I feel as though you ignored my second point there. Even if one granted I was scum and that my reads were set before I replaced in, the things that I wrote about them were not set before I replaced in, and it is the things written about reads that are relevant to one's alignment far more than the reads themselves. With that in mind, would you not agree that even if one granted that my reads were prefabricated, that the posts I made would still be just as alignment-indicative?
Hi, Lady 1 here what's up? You don't mind if I just step in for a second do ya? I think you're the one missing a key factor here, maybe both of you. Let's assume you had thoughts before replacing in. Now, I don't agree that this is a good line to go down but since we're going down it already let's entertain the thought. The key point is, if you had thoughts before replacing in regardless of what role pm you got they're going to come from a townie outlook because you don't make reads specing as scum you make them as town.
So in theory, no you couldn't really gather much off those posts. I think this is a really bad angle to go down, and I probably wouldn't have said anything if you weren't trying to put focus on the statement itself.
No, I understand this perfectly fine. I suppose I'll try to boil my main points down to two questions to keep it as focused as possible:
What is the specific reason to believe that I personally (as opposed to any other replacement) am scum who replaced in with prefabricated thoughts?
What is the extent to which one believes that these prefabrications go, and thus the extent to which my posts would thus be non-alignment-indicative?
If I had more energy right now I'd go into another long tangent about repackaging (one of the four main methods of resolving cognitive dissonance), but I don't, and besides my tangents are mostly self-indulgent anyways.
In post 1715, Lady 7 wrote:I've been sitting in the thread in hopes of finding someone I can bounce ideas off of as that's my prefered style of play.
I'm here
It's a bit late and I would love to do this later.
Generally, I am just in the patch of trying to sort my null pile.
What made you go from questioning L8.Ghost and trying to pair up with her to sort her.
To have her as a pretty solid town read, assuming that's your current read.
She fell off the grid so I am not sure what changed unless you took old information and reanalyzed it.
“I am who I am now because of everything that’s happened. If I try to deny my past, I’m denying the person I’ve become.”
"The number 7 shirt is an honor and a responsibility. I hope it brings me a lot of luck." C. Ronaldo"
i don't know where the disconnect is in what i'm writing or why people are misinterpreting it so wildly
i ain't saying you did or didn't do something. i am saying that all of the reads you have formed thus far are things you could easily have thought before replacing in, before knowing your alignment, etc, because you were following the game closely enough that you probably did form reads
it ain't a matter of whether it is or isn't the case, or whether or not i am ignoring it entirely
it's just that nothing in the reads you've given is stuff that you couldn't easily have been thinking prior to replacing in (because none of them are based on things that have happened since your replace in), ergo i'm not really factoring your opinions so far about players into my read on you and want to see how your reads develop over time
i haven't given a read on you for various reason, nor have i suggested that is what definitely happened
i'm just saying that your initial posts don't tell me anything about you for reasons that should be pretty obvious by now?
The content of this post comes from a player who is most certainly aligned with the town and is
In post 1724, Gentleman 6 wrote:Given you now know who G1 was... and can cross-reference past play, how do YOU feel about the townslip in question? To me, it solidified.
He always radiated newb town energy, which is why I wanted to pair up with him.
I can see how other people wouldn't trust that, but pretending to be a newb and needing to stay consistent with that just sounds like an insufferable way to play so I never questioned it.
“I am who I am now because of everything that’s happened. If I try to deny my past, I’m denying the person I’ve become.”
"The number 7 shirt is an honor and a responsibility. I hope it brings me a lot of luck." C. Ronaldo"
ngl when I started this I just wanted to goof off until I got a partner and then be really townie in my pt and watch as wolves try to ML my slot but then I got bored. Anyone else try that before?
In post 1707, Gentleman 3 wrote:I feel as though you've got something backwards here. You're not interested in my thoughts because if I'm scum they're prefabricated; very well, but if I'm scum then all of my thoughts are fabricated regardless. If I am town, they are quite real. So as I was trying to get at earlier, what is the specific reason to believe the scum case over the town case?
Moreover, I feel as though you ignored my second point there. Even if one granted I was scum and that my reads were set before I replaced in, the things that I wrote about them were not set before I replaced in, and it is the things written about reads that are relevant to one's alignment far more than the reads themselves. With that in mind, would you not agree that even if one granted that my reads were prefabricated, that the posts I made would still be just as alignment-indicative?
Hi, Lady 1 here what's up? You don't mind if I just step in for a second do ya? I think you're the one missing a key factor here, maybe both of you. Let's assume you had thoughts before replacing in. Now, I don't agree that this is a good line to go down but since we're going down it already let's entertain the thought. The key point is, if you had thoughts before replacing in regardless of what role pm you got they're going to come from a townie outlook because you don't make reads specing as scum you make them as town.
So in theory, no you couldn't really gather much off those posts. I think this is a really bad angle to go down, and I probably wouldn't have said anything if you weren't trying to put focus on the statement itself.
No, I understand this perfectly fine. I suppose I'll try to boil my main points down to two questions to keep it as focused as possible:
What is the specific reason to believe that I personally (as opposed to any other replacement) am scum who replaced in with prefabricated thoughts?
What is the extent to which one believes that these prefabrications go, and thus the extent to which my posts would thus be non-alignment-indicative?
If I had more energy right now I'd go into another long tangent about repackaging (one of the four main methods of resolving cognitive dissonance), but I don't, and besides my tangents are mostly self-indulgent anyways.
1) I don't believe I once stated you were scum, but I do think you are getting townread a lot harder than you have any right to be. I planned on just stating that in my pt and not the public thread because A) I wasn't going to push your pair for a bit B) I could be wrong C) But the main reason was I didn't want to deal with people questioning that read
2) Depends on the player I don't think there's a real point that you can just say 'yeah that's the point' but a good guess would be at the end of whatever catchup/page they replaced into because they would've got a role pm from that point onwards.
In post 1724, Gentleman 6 wrote:Given you now know who G1 was... and can cross-reference past play, how do YOU feel about the townslip in question? To me, it solidified.
He always radiated newb town energy, which is why I wanted to pair up with him.
I can see how other people wouldn't trust that, but pretending to be a newb and needing to stay consistent with that just sounds like an insufferable way to play so I never questioned it.
I am of this opinion as well.
Why do you think people are sitting here calling G1 scummy?
In post 1715, Lady 7 wrote:I've been sitting in the thread in hopes of finding someone I can bounce ideas off of as that's my prefered style of play.
I'm here
It's a bit late and I would love to do this later.
Generally, I am just in the patch of trying to sort my null pile.
What made you go from questioning L8.Ghost and trying to pair up with her to sort her.
To have her as a pretty solid town read, assuming that's your current read.
She fell off the grid so I am not sure what changed unless you took old information and reanalyzed it.
I agree with almost everything she is saying, to the point where I'd be making the same points (or have/do later)
That makes it very hard for me to see her as scum. I've been liking all of her recent posting.
You're probably paranoid of me because you think I'd be defending my dance partner as scum here.
As of right now, If I had to draw a hard line for my top 3 townreads, it's You, Lady 8, and Lady 3 - that is the level of confidence I am at currently. I'm still keeping her in consideration - that's my duty to do so, and I don't think she'd appreciate if I didn't put in effort to solve her
In post 1732, Lady 1 wrote:ngl when I started this I just wanted to goof off until I got a partner and then be really townie in my pt and watch as wolves try to ML my slot but then I got bored. Anyone else try that before?
More like watch as town try to miseliminate your slot, in that case
In post 1732, Lady 1 wrote:ngl when I started this I just wanted to goof off until I got a partner and then be really townie in my pt and watch as wolves try to ML my slot but then I got bored. Anyone else try that before?
More like watch as town try to miseliminate your slot, in that case
I could give you at least 8 examples of where scum try to go for the goofy lhf over town...if I was allowed to that is.
In post 1639, Gentleman 5 wrote:I don't think the "he wrote his posts before entering the game" theory is a real good one
i don't think he wrote his posts before replacing in, i think he was following along closely enough that he had genuine reads prior to replacing in (and he just happened to write about them, regardless of his alignment)
he said he was following it. he claims he wasn't forming reads though, he was just trying to identify people. i don't entirely believe that, but it's why i don't care about his replace in so much as how he's going to form reads down the line
A few thoughts on this. The first: this accusation could be made about any replacement, even ones who claim that they weren't following along. Do you have any specific reason to believe that it is the case when it comes to me? If not, do you hold the same reservations about the other replacements?
Second: I think we would both agree that it's not reads
themselves
that people are read off of. How one forms reads, how one justifies them, and in general how one talks
about
their reads generally, I would say, make up the content by which someone is judged. With that in mind, if you agree that the idea that I wrote posts before replacing in is absurd, wouldn't you agree that the concern that I had reads before I replaced in is superseded by the things I've written
surrounding
those reads afterwards? And of course, that's not to mention the more real-time interactions I've had with people.
I don't know. I'm reminded in some sense of a concern that I believe Lady 3 brought up, that people who "appear competent" might secretly have great scum ranges. I've experienced that exact paranoia myself before in a previous game, and I had to overcome it before I could move forward and town would eventually win. I don't think the concern is
unfounded
, although I would say that in the current site-meta it's on the less probable side. To my knowledge, at least, there are few players currently playing known for their outstanding scum games. I won't bother to comment on what I think of my own ability as scum; if someone doesn't trust me, they wouldn't believe me anyways.
Everyone has values and strengths in certain aspects of mafia. It isn't just who can find town/scum. Nor is it who can post the most lines. Do what you think is comfortable and make sure you're having fun doing it alright? Try not to compare yourself.
In post 1724, Gentleman 6 wrote:Given you now know who G1 was... and can cross-reference past play, how do YOU feel about the townslip in question? To me, it solidified.
He always radiated newb town energy, which is why I wanted to pair up with him.
I can see how other people wouldn't trust that, but pretending to be a newb and needing to stay consistent with that just sounds like an insufferable way to play so I never questioned it.
I am of this opinion as well.
Why do you think people are sitting here calling G1 scummy?
Do you place any value in those scumreads?
I've always read newb players the best out of any class of player even those with comparable playstyles to myself.
I think in general people don't like to clear people for things they could fake themselves. But they never consider what a newb town would and wouldn't try and fake which to me is the most important step when developing a read. Anything can be faked but people only think about faking so many things at once.
I'd like to say I am not putting much weight into the scum read, but people are making me feel uneasy in the sense that. I don't want to hard defend someone all game and end up being wrong when people are telling me not to do it. It isn't making me think he is scum but it's making me think I should just depend on another pair and leave at some point so I can feel guilt free regarding this games result.
But to defend my read in the words of a former mafia paragon, the best reads are those that are built on the simplest ideas. The more complex and harder to understand your methodology the less likely it is to be good in the first place. This occured over a discord conversation so I can't name them right now. Mafia players in general tend to disagree with that idea to some degree they just don't like winning because of a low effort 80% tell, when their brain tells them we live in the 20% world.
“I am who I am now because of everything that’s happened. If I try to deny my past, I’m denying the person I’ve become.”
"The number 7 shirt is an honor and a responsibility. I hope it brings me a lot of luck." C. Ronaldo"
In post 1742, Lady 7 wrote:I don't want to hard defend someone all game and end up being wrong when people are telling me not to do it. It isn't making me think he is scum but it's making me think I should just depend on another pair and leave at some point so I can feel guilt free regarding this games result.
Unfortunately, if everyone feels this way it's not much of a game, now is it?
In post 1742, Lady 7 wrote:I don't want to hard defend someone all game and end up being wrong when people are telling me not to do it. It isn't making me think he is scum but it's making me think I should just depend on another pair and leave at some point so I can feel guilt free regarding this games result.
Unfortunately, if everyone feels this way it's not much of a game, now is it?
I guess you aren't wrong on this.
“I am who I am now because of everything that’s happened. If I try to deny my past, I’m denying the person I’ve become.”
"The number 7 shirt is an honor and a responsibility. I hope it brings me a lot of luck." C. Ronaldo"
In post 1729, Lady 7 wrote:t's a bit late and I would love to do this later.
Generally, I am just in the patch of trying to sort my null pile.
What made you go from questioning L8.Ghost and trying to pair up with her to sort her.
To have her as a pretty solid town read, assuming that's your current read.
She fell off the grid so I am not sure what changed unless you took old information and reanalyzed it.
I agree with almost everything she is saying, to the point where I'd be making the same points (or have/do later)
That makes it very hard for me to see her as scum. I've been liking all of her recent posting.
You're probably paranoid of me because you think I'd be defending my dance partner as scum here.
As of right now, If I had to draw a hard line for my top 3 townreads, it's You, Lady 8, and Lady 3 - that is the level of confidence I am at currently. I'm still keeping her in consideration - that's my duty to do so, and I don't think she'd appreciate if I didn't put in effort to solve her
that's right, I love it when you solve me!!
In post 1731, Lady 7 wrote:He always radiated newb town energy, which is why I wanted to pair up with him.
I can see how other people wouldn't trust that, but pretending to be a newb and needing to stay consistent with that just sounds like an insufferable way to play so I never questioned it.
I don't think Gent 1 was a newb. Newb to this setup, perhaps, though. Or is that what you meant?
I believe pretty heavily that Lady 7 is being genuine with her argument on this page in any case
In post 1726, Lady 3 wrote:I'm so outclassed by all the players, maybe even by Lady1
Haha, well certainly not by me. A buncha people have been playing hard recently, I agree.
