Mini Normal 2157 | Over

[Iconeum]

Rawr!

omg i rarely get to do a page 1 post omg omg

what should i post

[Iconeum]

VOTE: George Bailey

Don't like wagoning for the sake of wagoning.

VOTE: NPOW
if that even is your real name

[Iconeum]

I pretty much always post small questions. I dislike long wall posts in general.

how do you feel about gifs?

[Iconeum]

also ngl, i'm ready to townbin george this game

[Iconeum]

I pretty much always post small questions. I dislike long wall posts in general.

how do you feel about gifs?

GIF's are awesome.

then i'd have expected one as a reply actually

i think GB is town, how about you?

[Iconeum]

ok i'll just leave my vote on you till you come to your senses then

[Iconeum]

in any case



we also need more jokes

[Iconeum]

VOTE: GeorgeBailey because how dare you steal my pagetop!

ur a full 2 minutes late...

[Iconeum]

snowblaze have we met before?

[Iconeum]

i'd be absolutely fine if this is just quickhammered right here and now

not even joking

[Iconeum]

Wow the two votes on me have a whole 9 words of "reasoning".

what's wrong? feeling the pressure with 2 votes on you?

and you even say it yourself, there's barely any reasoning to them. so what's up?

[Iconeum]

NPOW with the apparent need for *any* reason to vote someone, then pushes him when answered for nothing. Misses the townslip from GB, and is now crumbling under *pressure*

this needs more votes

[Iconeum]

I'm not upset. Just making a point. I'm sure better wagonswill become obvious

i'm not saying ur upset

i'm saying you feel... unnecesarilly pressured… which is a scumtrait

[Iconeum]

Nice way to misrep me though.

Wow the two votes on me have a whole 9 words of "reasoning".

[Iconeum]

it's unnecesarilly defensive - this is the scumtrait i'm talking about

[Iconeum]

Call it what you want. I'm just pointing out the flaws in the votes.

ur calling out flaws in votes… during full RVS stage

[Iconeum]

We're past the RVS, in case you didn't notice.

we most certainly are not

[Iconeum]

GB has three votes on him.

yeah congratulations on starting a wagon on a player who townslipped

[Iconeum]

BOOM eat that pagetop

[Iconeum]

hi all. this is my first game on the forum.

VOTE: nopoweroverme

reads it's his first game

sees has awards like best marathong speedrunner

why are you trying to trick us

[Iconeum]

i think GB is town, how about you?

ok i'll just leave my vote on you till you come to your senses then

Do you know something about GB that I don't or is this just a guess?

Ah, fair enough. I find scum always asks small pedantic questions to seem townie.

So it just pinged me as such.

this post was made from a town perspective, and isn't easily faked
it reads very authentic and i'm concluding GB is likely town with an offchance this is actually faked (but unlikely)

[Iconeum]

NPOW do we know each other?

[Iconeum]

You're concluding GB is likely town on page 1?

the conclusion i made is unrelated to page number, as you just quoted

[Iconeum]

ico, are you tmi-ing george town hmmm?

he townslipped

[Iconeum]

ok call it what you want

but it's there

and it's enough for me to townread him now

[Iconeum]

jinx!

[Iconeum]

Except that the statements not true. I was merely making casusal conversation, not an accusation. He's the one that got defensive, not me.

i think ur the one misrepping actually

you pushed GB on something silly, then continued when he responded to it. And when you got 2 votes on you, you acted relatively defensive considering RVS and the lack of commitment to said votes on you

[Iconeum]

NPOW do you consider yourself an experienced player?

[Iconeum]

pageto-

[Iconeum]

[Iconeum]

I feel like town should want to engage with other players and town hunt. Choosing not to engage is anti-town.

give me an R

give me an V

give me an S

what does it say?

all together now!

R V S

[Iconeum]

NPOW is either over-eager town, or scum caught pants down trying to act LAMIST early game

[Iconeum]

i'm at 50/50 there

[Iconeum]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Icon

NPOM seems like he's pretty inexperienced. No way scum comes out and actually goes SRS MODE in RVS. The real goof here is Icon trying to make that seem scummy.

(In fact, NPOM was a pretty easy misyeet D1 in a recent game I played. He was similarly overeager to scum hunt, and the scum team just sat back and let that be a fail. Only took slight prodding to make it an all town wagon. NPOM was town vig that game.)

i will tell you that a while ago, when i was less experienced, i made it my job as scum to try and force the game out of RVS asap to gain the juicy town credit associated with that. Or at least, I believed it was.

If you have meta evidence suggesting this is town!NPOW, i'm not opposed to hearing that.

[Iconeum]

Am I missing something here, or does that not make much sense? Why do you think Iconeum's scumread on NPOM is scum-motivated?

The point is NPOM is an easy target for a misyeet. In the game I referenced, my scum team was more careful and let the NPOM misyeet happen without having to participate much (iirc, one scum member quick hammered). The particulars from any game to game are going to differ. How is that confusing for you?

I think it's scum motivated because it's unlikely scum is going to come out both barrels in RVS the way NPOM did. Scum are timid little babies, afraid to attract attention to themselves early on in the game. I'm saying Icon goofed by thinking "oh, here is an easy push I can hop on to look like I'm scumhunting."

so now we have 2 players acting very defensively for what is being described as a full on push vs NPOW.

interesting indeed

[Iconeum]

Am I missing something here, or does that not make much sense? Why do you think Iconeum's scumread on NPOM is scum-motivated?

The point is NPOM is an easy target for a misyeet. In the game I referenced, my scum team was more careful and let the NPOM misyeet happen without having to participate much (iirc, one scum member quick hammered). The particulars from any game to game are going to differ. How is that confusing for you?

I think it's scum motivated because it's unlikely scum is going to come out both barrels in RVS the way NPOM did.

Scum are timid little babies, afraid to attract attention to themselves early on in the game

. I'm saying Icon goofed by thinking "oh, here is an easy push I can hop on to look like I'm scumhunting."

how are you coming to a scum!Icon conclusion when i'm standing in front of everyone, clearly not afraid to speak out and DEFINITELY not afraid of drawing attention?
when you just say scum are likely NOT to do this?

VOTE: VP

[Iconeum]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Icon

NPOM seems like he's pretty inexperienced. No way scum comes out and actually goes SRS MODE in RVS. The real goof here is Icon trying to make that seem scummy.

(In fact, NPOM was a pretty easy misyeet D1 in a recent game I played. He was similarly overeager to scum hunt, and the scum team just sat back and let that be a fail. Only took slight prodding to make it an all town wagon. NPOM was town vig that game.)

...wait, hang on. You're saying that he was miseliminated by an all-town wagon, with scum just sitting back and letting it happen, in a previous game.

And you also think Iconeum is scum for scumreading him, when you've just established that town have scumread him previously.

Am I missing something here, or does that not make much sense? Why do you think Iconeum's scumread on NPOM is scum-motivated?

also what this dude said

ur writing a lot, but your conclusions don't make sense which means you are probably faking this

[Iconeum]

Like I get your thought process here in addition with your second post. But if NPOM is pretty inexperienced and an easy miselim for scum, what stops him from playing haphazardly as scum too? Scum that are going try-hard and struggling with it on page one is not necessarily something rare imo. Why do you think he is town here? Or is it rather just a consequence of you scumreading Icon?

Nothing stops him from being haphazard as scum. I'm just saying, generally speaking,

scum are a cautious breed, especially early in the game

.

I don't know what his scum meta is. But based on my experience with him when he was town, this would fit with his play.

Curious why you find it convincingly scummy, though willing to give you time to scan some NPOM games and come to your own conclusion on his play as town.

how are you actually scumreading me when I just stepped in to defend GB from NPOW, and then started questioning NPOW on stuff. There's nothing cautious about my play here, and all reasons you are pulling out to scumread me are the opposite of what i'm actually doing

[Iconeum]

Because NPOM was attacking GB for an obvious RVS vote. If you're scum, that's pretty clearly not going to do anything but bring you trouble

he wasn't. he was fully dead serious with his GB vote. nothing RVS about it and he admitted as much himself

[Iconeum]

C) my playstyle tends to attract attention. I try to use that to my teams advantage on both sides, but me being mislynched as town is not uncommon.

[Iconeum]

I find myself hard agreeing with most of what VP Baltar has already explained regarding Iconeum’s push on NPOM, which I thought was too much on what seemed to me as mildly defensive. So I’m going to place VP Baltar as a Town Lean, though I’ll admit that he certainly sounds like he’s been around, so could be fooling me with the tone.

and in case this is all a big ol' town brawl going on, this is scum

[Iconeum]

Huh ok, suddenly so many Icon posts lol

doing my morning ketchup


whattup

[Iconeum]

My alt was YellowSnow. i get mislynched because i get involved day 1 and people are overeager to think their first impressions are correct. sometimes i say things to get reads and people mistake them as actual accusations.

60/40 eager town

[Iconeum]

I could tell that skipping rvs was going to annoy inoc, which is exactly why i did it. I read players better when they are on tilt.

[Iconeum]

VOTE: andres

ChooChoo!

[Iconeum]

Yeah I have a few leans but the only decent one is VPB Town

go and reread VPB in ISO

he is bringing up a couple reasons for why I am scum, and if you then go read my ISO, you will see i'm doing none of those things and in fact I'd say i'm doing the opposite of what he's saying is scum.

So his conclusion that i'm scum is either terrible or faked

[Iconeum]

@VBP, we can go thru each and every one of those reasons if you like

[Iconeum]

how's it an omgus?

go read what it is he is scumreading me on, and then apply it to what i'm actually doing and tell me how i'm doing what he says i'm doing

[Iconeum]

So you're OMGUSing then.VOTE: Iconeum

also, for the sake of argument, why are you voting me for omgus'ing?

ur acting like OMGUS'ing is a scumtrait

[Iconeum]

how's it an omgus?

go read what it is he is scumreading me on, and then apply it to what i'm actually doing and tell me how i'm doing what he says i'm doing

Because he said why he thought what you did was scummy, and you are complaining about being attacked.

OMGUSing is a scumtrait. If it wasn't people would just continuously attack those attacking them.

1) town are just as eager to omgus as scum. it's not an AI thing, it's a human thing.

2) i'm not attacking him because i'm being attacked by him, but

because i'm doing things opposite of what he's accusing me of

.

[Iconeum]

In your opinion.

i mean, its not an opinion.

i'll make a bigger post in a few minutes showcasing this, and we can talk about it

[Iconeum]

I think you're doing to much talking and not enough listening, Iconeum. Maybe you need to consider others opinions a bit more.

that's fair enough

would you like to go over what i think are wrong accusations aimed at me?

it's the reason why i'm so aggitated right now (i get like that when i feel wrongfully accused of stuff)

[Iconeum]

VPB/Andres/NPOW

1 scum

VPB with the very strange scumread on me, which is in straight contradiction with reasons provided by him
Andres, with the huge fencesit opening
NPOW for reasons stated earlier and general interaction with me

[Iconeum]

@ico are you townreading me yet

ur very much a null right now

[Iconeum]

do you still think bailey townslipped or were you confusing

townslip

/towntell?

i used the word townslip but i think you knew what i was getting at

the way he made that post was from an Obvious townie perspective and it's still weird that NPOW scumread GB despite that post

[Iconeum]

Not obvious town perspective to me. Especially not from the first post of the game. A lot more troublesome was your overreaction to my prodding him than anything that I or GB did, in my opinion. If you're town you shouldn't have any concrete information on his alignment, but it looks like you did based on your reaction.

It wasn't the first post of the game, and definitely not GB's first post. I called it out as I saw it, you pushing someone whom i thought was *obviously* town for making that post in that fashion.

And then you followed it up with an over-defensive post when there were 2 votes on you

[Iconeum]

I find myself hard agreeing with most of what VP Baltar has already explained regarding Iconeum’s push on NPOM, which I thought was too much on what seemed to me as mildly defensive. So I’m going to place VP Baltar as a Town Lean, though I’ll admit that he certainly sounds like he’s been around, so could be fooling me with the tone.

and in case this is all a big ol' town brawl going on, this is scum

thoughts on this?

[Iconeum]

NPOW you need to reread what VP wrote about me and see how it adds up

because it doesn't

[Iconeum]

Am I missing something here, or does that not make much sense? Why do you think Iconeum's scumread on NPOM is scum-motivated?

The point is NPOM is an easy target for a misyeet. In the game I referenced, my scum team was more careful and let the NPOM misyeet happen without having to participate much (iirc, one scum member quick hammered). The particulars from any game to game are going to differ. How is that confusing for you?

I think it's scum motivated because it's unlikely scum is going to come out both barrels in RVS the way NPOM did. Scum are timid little babies, afraid to attract attention to themselves early on in the game. I'm saying Icon goofed by thinking "oh, here is an easy push I can hop on to look like I'm scumhunting."

1) says NPOW is mislynchbait. Last game his wagon was all town-motivated. Icon is pushing him now. Therefore Icon is scum. How does this work exactly?

2) says scum are timid little babies and not gonna wanna attract attention. How has this been my play so far? I've not been afraid to stick my neck out or to engage. I've stated MY opinions and am fighting for those. Completely contradictory to what VP says scum are gonna be. Yet he scumreads me for it. How does that work?

3) accuses me of hopping on an easy wagon, while it's the opposite of what I did. I defended someone I thought was town. If I wanted to go for the easy wagon, I'd have voted GB (unless you think the team is exactly Ico + GB lol). So how does that work?

There is not a single point of what he's saying is scum that is connecting to my play, but ends up with a hard scumread on me anyway.

[Iconeum]

Ico is being way to much of a literalist and not looking at intent and subtelty. This doesn't seem townish to me.

HOW THE FUCK IS THAT AI INDICATIVE AND NOT A PERSONALITY TRAIT

[Iconeum]

i'll be back later when i'm cooled down

[Iconeum]

1) I'm assuming he's guessing that you are smart enough to sense mislynch bait and you think I am it, and that eliminating me would lead to a similar result as the last time I was day 1 eliminated for little or no reason. He's not wrong, as you are holding on to your assumptions way to strenuously.

Part of what ur accusing me of is not taking perspective and motivation into account. Ur wrong. It's exactly why his read is so bad. Because from his pov and in his experience, my push on you comes from town and not scum. But he scumreads me for it nontheless.

[Iconeum]

3) I think a lot of people think that you started defending GB too quickly. All I did was ask a few ice breaker questions and you decided I was trying to eliminate him.

maybe i was wrong in defending him that early, but i still found it odd you ended up scumreading him despite him looking townie

[Iconeum]

you are holding on to your opinions to tightly even in the face of opposition, and even when there is good/logical reasoning against them

This has won me my best games, as town. Even very recently.

i'm not gonna stop doing that

[Iconeum]

I'm a stubborn type of player, sure. But don't you for one minute think it's a scumtrait.

[Iconeum]

1) I'm assuming he's guessing that you are smart enough to sense mislynch bait and you think I am it, and that eliminating me would lead to a similar result as the last time I was day 1 eliminated for little or no reason. He's not wrong, as you are holding on to your assumptions way to strenuously.

Look at this from HIS pov. He literally said that in that particular game, you got mislynched easily. And that scum had to do nothing for it. Everyone pushing you in that game was TOWN.
How does that make him scumread me for doing that, in this game? Where is the logic from his pov?

[Iconeum]

also i've got the feeling you ain't really reading my posts as well. I've got the feeling you think i'm hard scumreading you.

[Iconeum]

Notice that they only attacked me as

definite Scum

after I voted them,

you quote me right now where i'm calling you definite scum or i'm tunneling you for the rest of this game

[Iconeum]

Also, your skepticism about me being non-committal is fair.

[snip]

If I was saying that VPB was definitive Town or Scum, then you should be more worried about my alignment.

if skepticism about you being non-committal is fair, is skepticism about you being fence-sitty also fair?

also very disagree with the second point, but dunno how AI that is

I have not been fencesitting. Please point out to me how I’m playing like I’m sitting on the sidelines waiting for people to chew each other out.

i literally quoted where you did that. it's the post you are completely missrepping me about

[Iconeum]

I did not admit to anything regarding Icon's "bad logic" argument because it is flat wrong. Icon failed to read properly and the OMGUSed me is what took place.

i'm not omgusing you at all

you are using faulty logic to explain a scumread on me and people are wagoning you on faulty logic and when i explain why it's absolute horseshit of reasoning it's dismissed

yeah i'm reacting to that

yeah i'm annoyed

but if you think this is scum!ico because i'm emotional about things you've... got to learn a thing or two about me

[Iconeum]

this will be all

i've had about 2,5 gin tonicss and i'm about to start the La Chouffe bottles so

see you all tomorrow and Ico out/

[Iconeum]

ok i'll bite

[Iconeum]

Also, can somebody other than Iconeum come up with a definition of OMGUS’ing that most of us can agree on?

voting someone purely because they voted you?

this is the definition of omgus

it's clearly not what i'm doing

and i'm extremely sick and tired of these misreps

[Iconeum]

Also, can somebody other than Iconeum come up with a definition of OMGUS’ing that most of us can agree on?

i am pushing that VP dude because of the unholy conclusion it made that i am scum based on faulty logic that itself brought forward, i pointed this in a bigger post out already

how is that omgus?

[Iconeum]

let's just say that if i had the power to investigate in a bracket of players, i'd think andres/NPOW/VP would have a solid chance of hitting Tea

[Iconeum]

I'm rereading the last couple of pages, and I can definitely see why people are screaming OMG ICO YOU OMGUS AAAA

I feel like I have solid reason for what I did, but it can be seen as an omgus, sure. What I don't get is that people scumread omgus for some reason? Omgus is one of those NAI things to push someone on, because it comes from town just as much as it comes from scum.

[Iconeum]

Also, can somebody other than Iconeum come up with a definition of OMGUS’ing that most of us can agree on?

voting someone purely because they voted you?

this is the definition of omgus

it's clearly not what i'm doing

and i'm extremely sick and tired of these misreps

When a player immediately votes back someone who is voting their slot, it very often gets looked at as OMGUS’ing because it is hard to see such a move as genuine. If I had to boil down my skepticism of your slot into one argument, it would be that.

I also find the constant appeal to emotion difficult to interpret. You appear “agitated” and angry or upset about how VPB and I are reading you. This is not constructive.

datisi was pretty accurate with it's read on me
i get agitated (which again is NAI for me) when I feel people are pushing me for (what I feel are) bad reasons. It's nothing personal, but it's one of my less attractive personality traits for sure.

[Iconeum]

I mean I was called as a huge fence sitter by Iconeum. This is the sort of thing that is typically reserved for players when they see a wagon building, have expressed a view that said player is Town, but they leave an opening to hop on to that wagon to ensure that Town is eliminated and not Scum.

Yes, as seen here:

I find myself hard agreeing with most of what VP Baltar has already explained regarding Iconeum’s push on NPOM, which I thought was too much on what seemed to me as mildly defensive. So I’m going to place VP Baltar as a Town Lean, though I’ll admit that he certainly sounds like he’s been around, so could be fooling me with the tone.

To me this reads like you want to share a townread on VP, but without committing. You leave the door open to scumread (and vote) him if opportunity presents itself.

Now, when you said I focused only on this post, and not your other posts, you are misrepping me. I made that post on you in 189. You barely had any other posts at that time, so I feel it was entirely justified to calling you out on what looks like you not wanting to form a solid opinion (ie. fencesitting).

Me otoh opened with a strong (seen by some as too strong) of a townread on GB. It leaves me very little wiggling room as scum, because of attention turns to GB I can't help mislynch him if i'm scum and he is town. But I made no such reservations. I saw it, and I called it out.

It was seen as scummy, I'm just calling it sorting players.

[Iconeum]

I find myself hard agreeing with most of what VP Baltar has already explained regarding Iconeum’s push on NPOM, which I thought was too much on what seemed to me as mildly defensive. So I’m going to place VP Baltar as a Town Lean, though I’ll admit that he certainly sounds like he’s been around, so could be fooling me with the tone.

and in case this is all a big ol' town brawl going on,

this is scum

and andres, I think you went over this post way too quickly. I saw you calling me out because I was *definite certain* you are scum. I'm not. And I didn't say that.

But if you only read the bolded here out of context, then I see how you came to that conclusion.

[Iconeum]

Let's get some more votes on Icon pls. Hellbrooks, testarossa, we got a live one over here.

Nah, still solidly town on Ico. :shrug:
Like my read is mostly based on my impression of his personality that he displayed so far and looks pretty consistent to me as he started with getting excited in finding a supposed towntell for GB and getting through that to an early scumread to push until getting hotheaded and genuinely annoyed that an illogical scumread (with which I agree with to a certain extent) was used to push him. Like he comes across to me as someone that would rather break through the wall then just run past it and this showed in his back and forth with you guys, while I still feel he is trying to resolve it like he was trying with NPOM, which looked like a townie approach to me. Stuff like omgus is rather nai, especially if it becomes emotional.
Also helps that I have warmed up to have Datisi as town, who seems to be strongly familiar with Ico, so him defending Ico gives me a bit reassurement here.

Not really away from NPOM, but I feel it's locking too much into NPOM/Icon and I don't really like Billy's posts or what he isn't doing atm.

Tell me more. I'm also interested in this.

The Ico/NPOM part or the Billy part?

If the former it felt to me that everyone was just focussing on that skirmish or to keep their noses out without looking offside of there imo. Like I don't think it was SvS, for that both sides seemed too annoyed. So either TvT that was befired by someone (or scum holding back) or TvS, but then only within you or NPOM imo. But I am not that sure about that anymore, NPOM recent posts were better and I am still around null with you, which might be because you were mainly involved with Ico so far. I just feel the situation was stagnating, which wouldn't necessarily make sense if one side has scum advantage.

As for Billy, I found his response pretty vague, his handling of NPOM still looks weird, but judgement is still holding out here. What triggered me more was him appearing again only to respond to critical posts towards him, like I get one just feel obligated to it, but that is actually something I see from scum too often. Didn't helped that he wasn't really trying to get reads on people or attempted to look for scum. After all he had the luxury to come late in to have already some juicy stuff at hand. Didn't know of the storm issue of course, but still that entrance was quite lackluster.

lol this post is scum i just cant explain it but its probably all the big complex epxlainations and big words that do it

what's wrong, is testa steering away from your desired mislynch?

also HI Dkkoba

[Iconeum]

I'm coming into today with a fresh mind and a clean slate, towards anyone willing to grant me the same.

[Iconeum]

You only like people that are townreading you?

what is this question supposed to accomplish?

[Iconeum]

This isn't about liking people, right? I can get into heated arguments with players, like already happened in this game, but still like them. I've got no quarrel with anyone here (so far lol). Heated arguments are a part of the game, and they tend to happen to me more often then others.

Does that mean I don't like them? No.

[Iconeum]

Ico, let's put our differences aside. Get on this Billy wagon?

I don't really feel a scum!Billy actually.

[Iconeum]

I'm coming into today with a fresh mind and a clean slate, towards anyone willing to grant me the same.

my fresh slate puts u as scum tho ))):

Sure. Why?

[Iconeum]

who's jankofan

[Iconeum]

Ico, let's put our differences aside. Get on this Billy wagon?

I don't really feel a scum!Billy actually.

What has billy done that's town?

Don't get me wrong, I said I don't really see any good scum!billy indicators. That's not the same as townreading him.

I don't mind the pressure on him.

[Iconeum]

Snowblaze is also probably town.

[Iconeum]

Here, from the top of my head:

1.Testarossa - Prob town. Can find myself agreeing a lot with this.
2.DkKoba JamSV - Null. Not sure if DK is still going full troll RVS, or trying to push my buttons. If actually serious about scumreading me i'd love to see an explanation.
3.Datisi - I'd love this to be town. Indicators are there for datisi to be town. Is somewhat invested already (good sign). Is sorting. Unfortunately there is also paranoia because Datisi knows how to handle me if she's scum.
4.Alduskkel - I don't remember reading a lot from this slot. Null.
5.Snowblaze - prob town, same as with Testa. I liked the question about VP's conclusion when pushing me, and has a clear town intent in that.
6.Iconeum - believe it or not, i'm actually town
7.VP Baltar - ehhhh. Benefit of the doubt.
8.GeorgeBailey - prob town.
9.Andresvmb - ehhhh. Benefit of the doubt
10.jankofan - who is this even
11.NoPowerOverMe - If i had a gun in hand, and was forced to use it, i'd probably shoot here. Very opportunistic play so far.
12.hellbooks - prob town. Don't remember a ton of posts, but was sorting earlier.
13.Billy Pilgrim - Tough. Billy usually scumreads me when I'm town. And I'd like to think i'm fairly hard in my town-meta, it's rough to see him townread me. But that can easily be something he learned from the past games. I don't see much scum motivated posts. If anyone scumreads here, they should post a case on why they think Billy is scum.

Yeap i'm lacking scumreads

For information purposes, NPOW would actually be a great lynch.

[Iconeum]

also how many scum are in a mini normal cause this is my firs ttime playing a mini normal

pls some1 answer this

i'd say 10v3

a quick scan thru the forum should prove this i suppose

[Iconeum]

Dkkoba how are you townreading datisi and GB but scumread me?

This game has somewhat developped into 2 sides, but if you scumread me i'd think you would have a hard time townreading datisi.

[Iconeum]

[Iconeum]

Live footage of Iconeum watching DKkoba entering the game

[Iconeum]

Ino obviously doesn't like pressure.

nice observation

do you know a lot of players who like pressure?

[Iconeum]

why do you think datisi is town?

i'm not saying she's not, but i'd like to hear your reasoning behind it

[Iconeum]

VOTE: SnowBlaze

If you must vote for me, please spell my name correctly and with proper capitalisation.

Hey hey i'm being called a female inoc, i've got first dibs on demanding that stuff

[Iconeum]

why do you think datisi is town?

i'm not saying she's not, but i'd like to hear your reasoning behind it

we can discuss that after u flip scum <3

you are sheeping my townreads but somehow i'm scum

also said townreads are basicly all townreading me but somehow you still think i'm scum

VOTE: dkkoba

[Iconeum]

dkkoba i'm expecting an actual answer to why i'm scum and why you are townreading datisi (again, not saying she's not, but i really want your reasons for it)

please just answer it, i hate it when people straight up don't wanna answer these kinds of questions and it's only scum motivated to not answer them

please…

[Iconeum]

hi VOTE: ico am busy but when i was reading game b4 replacing in this slot pinged me v hard notably between pages 6-10

give me post numbers

especially the ones on page 6-7, really interested in which posts i pinged you hard there

[Iconeum]

why don't you wanna explain your reads?

[Iconeum]

especially considering you pointed to pages that pinged you, several on which i didn't even post?

and those townreads of yours are all townreading me, so it doesn't make sense from your pov to townread them if you don't agree with them

[Iconeum]

so before anyone calls another omgus, this is the reason i'm voting dk

[Iconeum]

because I'm tired right now and i don't need to appeal to you specifically so there's no motivation to do so at this time.

you don't think there's motivation in explaining your reads?

i mean, the only motivation for *not* explaining your reads is because you are scum who doesn't *have* said reasons in the first place

town should have no problem in showing why they have reads in the first place

[Iconeum]

why did you sign up to play the game if you refuse to play the game

stop wasting my time

[Iconeum]

dude c'mon ur acting uncool bro

[Iconeum]

live footage of Dkkoba right now, colourized



hey man

thanks for signing up to our game and then just destroy it for us

[Iconeum]

koba, your playing is accomplish nothing but making people agitated and not have fun. i am asking you to please tone your ego down.

it does in fact not feel fun when you are scum and scum is losing, yes. now let me sleep.

yeah that's fair

take all night to figure out a good reason for your reads

you'll need it

[Iconeum]

datisi can you give some insights to what you think of that playerlist thing i made earlier?

[Iconeum]

ico, would you say your behaviour this game is similar to EISAL v2? i'm kinda getting vibes from that game, except i'm not scum this time lmfao

oof, ngl i don't remember a ton about that game

also i dislike having to compare my own play over games for others, when they can do that themselves and have an objective opinion about that

so unless you specificaly *want* me to compare my own games here, i won't

[Iconeum]

i distinctly remember having a discussion about my own meta in EISAL, having to prove my hyper defensive reactionary play is my town meta

i probably linked a couple games there to prove it

also, i won't hesitate to use self-meta to get points across if that is what you mean. But i've never been a fan of comparing my own games i think?

[Iconeum]

I see some are scumreading baltar and i can see where they are coming from. Inoc still bothers me but it could be SPP.

VOTE: VP Baltar

who do you see and what points are you agreeing with specifically?

[Iconeum]

i love your triangles

[Iconeum]

VOTE: snowblaze

pedit: thank you ico <3 what do you think of this one

it's close to what i'm feeling this game

yeah i'm judging snow pretty much based on *that* post
and i'm more on the scumlean then on the pure lean wrt to NPOW

there's 2 players in the game right now who are putting down reads without the want or need to explain them and I don't like it
also that jan dude should start posting

[Iconeum]

I see some are scumreading baltar and i can see where they are coming from. Inoc still bothers me but it could be SPP.

VOTE: VP Baltar

do you see the problem i have with this post?

[Iconeum]

i thought so

i need you to answer who you are agreeing with when it comes to scumreading VP baltar first, and then i can answer what the problem is

[Iconeum]

ok

it's 11.45 am here

[Iconeum]

if ur town, you really need to answer it (when you have time) because it would really help me in sorting you

and also my reply would realllly help you in sorting me if ur town

[Iconeum]

Well that explains it.

like

just real quick bullet point style of the names you are agreeing with wrt VP
i'll dig up the posts myself, no problem

that shouldn't be that much work now

[Iconeum]

hello jankofan

what triggered your scumread on me?

[Iconeum]

especially considering you only read the last 6 pages...

[Iconeum]

hey there! sorry I had issues with my account and couldn't physically post on this thread, but now I'm good. Having just read through the last 6 pages of the game,

I'm currently at
closer to town: koba, snow, vp, gb
closer to scum: testarossa, iconeum, billy
idk about: everyone else.
VOTE: iconeum

if you townread gb based on the last 6 pages, does that mean you agree with what he was saying or?

[Iconeum]

Billy and you at least.

yeah i think that pretty much sums up my feelings

[Iconeum]

no i mean GB (george)

you townread him based on the last 6 pages as you wrote
is that because you agree with his posts? you know, the one including where he townreads me?

[Iconeum]

i wonder if

snowblaze

dkkoba and jankofan are scum together

i agree

[Iconeum]

I've read the whole game. Do you mean

do i agree with what vp

was saying re your push on npom? If so, yeah kinda. It feels like you might've sensed an opportunity to attract some attention in your push on npom. starting a fight there doesn't jive with someone who has no agenda in this game other than solving. contrast that to snow who's sort of feeling her way through, it feels like she's legit trying to make sense of whats happening. And then how you've progressed in the game, my impression is that you're sort of annoyed at being called out, are doubling down on tone/aggression and force yourself into a townread position.

ebwop

did you happen to read the post i made where it shows the faulty logic used by VP in his push on me?

VP used meta from a game where NPOW was mislynched by town, and scum just sat by. Then VP applied it to this game where NPOW is once again being pushed, so his logical conclusion should be that it's probably town again but instead ends up scumreading me.

[Iconeum]

koba tr is a sharing reads and perspectives thing, snow i've said, vp is probably the weakest townread in that pool but yeah seems helpful to town and i think we share similar perspectives on things so far, gb just seems like a chill townie in tone.
billy i'll have to review actually, weakest scum pooler for sure, testa just seems to be focusing on the wrong things and their tones reading tryhardy. iconeum is explained above.

so you scumread me because you think the weakest of your townreads kinda made sense when pushing me?

[Iconeum]

koba tr is a sharing reads and perspectives thing

wait you are townreading Dkkoba?

based on shared reads? with whom exactly?

and could you point out exactly what *perspective* this is you are talking about?

[Iconeum]

testa just seems to be focusing on the wrong things and their tones reading tryhardy

how is any of this scum indicative? do you think town Always focuses on the 'right' things and scum don't? You think it's scum to be tryharding?

[Iconeum]

(sorry for the post overload, but i feel like we are actually getting somewhere with this)

[Iconeum]

Whereas in this game scum (you) have chosen to jump on them early and use the concept that NPOM is safely pushable to attract neutral/positive attention early in the game. Pretty sure thats what vp's point was? Anyway my read on you extends past that concept and includes your progression from the early push even though it does circle back and tie in vp's initial argument.

How could I have known that NPOW is or isn't a safe push? I've never played with the dude before.
What progression did I make according to you?

[Iconeum]

oh i see, yeah shared reads make sense

but that's where it ends :p

[Iconeum]

how do you feel about dkkoba's complete unwillingness to provide any kind of backing for those reads?

[Iconeum]

3 out of your 4 townreads (datisi, snow, testa) are all (hard?) townreading me

how do you feel about that?

[Iconeum]

Iconeum bases her reads based almost entirely on how people react to her alone.

She doesn't seem to have the capability to step outside of her shoes and put herself into someone else's situation.

She tends to hyperfocus on someone when she thinks she is being wronged.

This is my psychoanalysis anyways. She has acted scummy, but the more I think about her interactions the more she seems town.

i'm just gonna say it now before this gets out of control

i'm not a she

[Iconeum]

Iconeum bases her reads based almost entirely on how people react to her alone.

She doesn't seem to have the capability to step outside of her shoes and put herself into someone else's situation.

She tends to hyperfocus on someone when she thinks she is being wronged.

This is my psychoanalysis anyways. She has acted scummy, but the more I think about her interactions the more she seems town.

most of my capacity to play this game properly goes out the window when i feel i'm being bullshitted
otherwise i dare to think i'm actually decent at this game, and i think i've already shown as much after the first *incident*?

also hot take:
town is a LOT more likely to act scummy, then scum

[Iconeum]

It's okay I love you weather you're a girl or a guy as long as you're town.

[Iconeum]

And i think i explained before its like there was an agenda to starting a fight with them then and there, it just didn't seem towny to me

ok what was my supposed agenda?

[Iconeum]

i don't think people even understand *why* i pushed NPOW early on

it got twisted into 'omg look ico is pushing mislynchbait, he must be scum'

but there was actually really something there
and when i pushed him, it wasn't even that hard

even NPOW understood at the time that I was trying to sort him

[Iconeum]

A) i don't think inoc is scum. She's just trying to read me.

exhibit A

[Iconeum]

after that, VP pushed me based on him *knowing* NPOW is mislynchbait, while assuming therefore I know as well. He brings up a meta reference to where town pushed him, and here i am pushing him therefore i am scum. Based on that reasoning I overreacted towards VP and a shitfight happened.

On the next day (today), emotions have calmed and I think the game is being sorted properly. There's even a fairly solid townblock developping.

This is, according to me, a solid representation of what happened and why people are apparently scumreading me.

[Iconeum]

janko, do you think getting annoyed at people pushing you is scum!indicative?

talk to me friend

hey there! umm its context dependant and playstyle dependant. on the whole no, both alignments probably tend to get annoyed at being pushed. Although town might be annoyed i feel like they have a strong focus in and around scumhunting and that should be visible despite their frustration. Whereas, scum can just get a bit tunnel visioned defending themselves and having a lack of general awareness about the game and other slots since they naturally have to manually direct energy toward scum hunting since they feel defending themselves and tunnel visioning on their own pressure are more vital prospects. Whereas town are naturally inclined to scum hunt and task themselves with figuring out whether those pushing them are scum. I feel like scum would focus more on the pressure/push arguments (like what i think icon is doing) whereas town would also be visibly focusing on the persons pushing them and who is scum in general.

how many reference games would you like where i react like this and i am town? Like, how many would you need to see in order to believe this comes from town!Ico?

[Iconeum]

If Icon vs. VP is 1v1 I have to choose Icon at this point. It could be TvT though.

i don't really think scum!VP backs down from his push on me at the time it's gaining steam. His open attitude towards me is coming from a sorting mindset and doesn't gain him much if he's scum.

I know i know, i'm judging that based on interactions with myself like you said, but i think it's a valid point.

[Iconeum]

and history tells me most of my 1v1's are actually with town anyway so

[Iconeum]

not sure if janko is trying to make me fit it's narrative and is purposefully misrepping me, or if it's genuinly not understanding the events in this game so far

[Iconeum]

GB, datisi

i'm in disagreement with your scumread on snowblaze

[Iconeum]

reading thru it's ISO, i'm vibing with 105, 194, 197, 239, 245, 357,

360 might be a little defensive, but who am i to Judge someone on that :p

423 doesn't scream town, but isn't a scumpost either

[Iconeum]

there's 2 players in the game right now who are putting down reads without the want or need to explain them and I don't like it

who were you referring to here?

iirc dk and npow

with the realization that npow wasn't as bad as i thought at the time

[Iconeum]

ico exhibiting the scum mindset of being frustrated over being scumread over what they perceive as the "wrong reasons"

there's nothing scummy about that at all

i've got finished games to prove as much, but something tells me you ain't interested in fact checking

[Iconeum]

dkkoba are you ready to start answering a few questions yourself?

there's a couple pending right now

[Iconeum]

please keep yelling abt meta it makes me yearn for ur hanging even more

at this point i can't help but feel you are doing this on purpose and are actively trying to make me go hulk mode again

which is

1) extremely sad that you resort to such tactics
2) not gonna work

[Iconeum]

please keep yelling abt meta it makes me yearn for ur hanging even more

i'm not yelling, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with asking you to answer a couple questions

you don't even need to answer mine

but at least do it for your townreads?

that's not an unreasonable request bruh

[Iconeum]

more misreps plz

[Iconeum]

dkkoba i'll just say this

if this is your towngame, you are completely and utterly unreasonable and absolutely unfun. On top of that you are acting like a total douchebag for god know's what reasons. If you are getting a kick out of this, please don't join anymore games i'm in. And not just to your scumread. I'm somewhat able to understand that. But towards your TOWNREAD? Its ridiculous.

if this is your scumgame, then prepare to get destroyed.

[Iconeum]

how is janko null to you LOOOOOOOOOOL

and u want to shade my mafia skill here

i don't know if janko's scum. gun to head, he's

bellow

the null line.

is your capability to read compromised, or does it simply not fit your agenda here?

[Iconeum]

oh boy

[Iconeum]

so ur just terrible town?

that's fine

get your head out of your ass if you wanna do something meaningfull in this game

[Iconeum]

lynching dk would be close to the definition of a policy lynch, but i'm fine with that

[Iconeum]

VOTE: dkkoba
Serious offer btw. Im that confident in my read

if ur town, this tactic is suicidal

if ur scum, this tactic is suicidal

conclusion:

[Iconeum]

hey wait, am i misremembering or is self-voting a tactic that scum!koba does?

i'm not misremembering
self-voting is an AtE tactic scum!koba does out of fake frustration
l m f a o

got past data to support this?

if so then

[Iconeum]

[Iconeum]

well i hope ur right

if he flips scum then he's gonna have conftown'd a bunch of players

[Iconeum]

freedom of speech

[Iconeum]

Ive been playing mafia for 4 years its cute you think my scumplay is 1 dimensional

if you eat bananas and throw poop people will think ur a monkey

[Iconeum]

Ico has directly engaged people voting their slot to try and dissuade them not once, not twice, but three times! All in one day. Calling each and every one of those players Scum, and placing votes there immediately after facing pressure. This is not your typical Town play. I really don’t understand why this is all being dismissed as oh, but Town can also do that.

i don't see what's scummy about what ur saying here, and it's actually *extremely* typical for town!me to do exactly this

there's probably proof of that if you want, i think i offered as much earlier as well

[Iconeum]

Ico has directly engaged people voting their slot to try and dissuade them not once, not twice, but three times! All in one day. Calling each and every one of those players Scum, and placing votes there immediately after facing pressure. This is not your typical Town play. I really don’t understand why this is all being dismissed as oh, but Town can also do that.

if you scumread me for all of this, can you tell me how it benefits me if i'm scum to do this?

[Iconeum]

*Factual Statement Disclaimer*

Every single one of points that has been brought up against me is NOT AI indicative. If you look at how i'm actually playing this game, you'll see i'm one of a few players actually sorting thru the players.

*End of Factual Statement Disclaimer*

[Iconeum]

If the ones scumreading me cannot get over this, DESPITE the townreads i'm receiving with WHY i'm town this game, I suggest you just lynch me today. I'm not gonna make this game about me every single day.

BUT if you seriously expect me to flip scum here, you're dead wrong. And you have been warned by players who know me better.

I omgus so i'm scum? Lol.
I vote players who push me so i'm scum? Lol.
My *progression* this game is bad? I'm one of a handfull of players who is actually putting out effort in sorting people. I'm reaching out. I'm bumping heads. You think this comes from scum? Lol.
Reacting agitated and agressive after being pushed, you think that's a scumtrait only? Just L.O.L.

And i've already stated this multiple times but ya'll don't seem interested so i'll say it again.

There is literall proof this is town!Ico. This is what I do. I've done it before. Many times. All you need to do is read a past game of mine. You won't be able to say 'this can't possible come from town'. You think my signature is random? Hah.

[Iconeum]

currently reading

is it just me or is ico bleeding town?

to me it feels it's mostly just you :p

(and a couple others)

i'm fairly widespread scumread here

[Iconeum]

why do you think datisi is town?

i'm not saying she's not, but i'd like to hear your reasoning behind it

we can discuss that after u flip scum <3

you are sheeping my townreads but somehow i'm scum

also said townreads are basicly all townreading me but somehow you still think i'm scum

VOTE: dkkoba

Did you miss the slip? Or is there a reason you're not weighting it.

if anything, i was at the verge of pushing him on such an obviously faked question coming from a player with his experience
i'd expect the question in a newb game, or from a new player in general.

Why are you giving towncredit to an *experienced* player who doesn't seem to know how many scum are to be expected in 13 players?

[Iconeum]

Do you think it’s even remotely likely that three different players all on D1 would separately make arguments against one Town slot, at different times and without obvious coordination (I hate to point this out but I had already moved off you when DkKoba came in and started aggressively pushing you) and all those players be Scum? So why have you decided each and every time to attack the players who seem to have more openly suspected you early in the game, to the point where you’ve placed three different votes on those three different players? Could it be because you take votes as personal slights as Town and feel like you should push all those players? Maybe. I just think it’s more likely that this is Scum motivated - and a real fight for simple survival.

And what’s my Scum motivation for hopping back on your wagon exactly? I already know it’s not an easy choice. In fact it feels very annoying to have to do this. So why is my vote now finally revealing enough for Datisi to vote me? There’s so much resistance to this that honestly I almost can’t resist it. So yeah, that’s how I’m reading the situation.

i'm not saying all those 3 players are scum.

Believe it or not, but this is my way of sorting people. I get up into people's faces and I fight them. More often then not, I end up townreading someone i just did a big 1v1 with.
I fought with NPOW, who is now above my null line. Same thing with VP. Definitely not the case with DKobba.

In your post here, you say that fighting for your survival is a scum trait. I don't understand that.
If you look at my larger game here, you'll see i'm actually trying to figure out allignments and a towncore.

[Iconeum]

So why have you decided each and every time to attack the players who seem to have more openly suspected you early in the game, to the point where you’ve placed three different votes on those three different players? Could it be because you take votes as personal slights as Town and feel like you should push all those players?

Because I felt (still do) the pushes were made up, and were based on wrong/terrible/faked reasoning. Take your pick. I fought NPOW over his actions. Guess what. We ended up townreading each other (degrees may vary).

I fought VP. From the way he handled my slot the day after our fight I ended up townreading him. I made a post on the why exactly earlier.

Then when my wagon was dying, Dkkoba joins the game and has this bitch ass attitude towards everyone and refused to explain his reads/votes.
So I ended up fighting him. Difference here is that I don't townread him after our discussion. His motivation for this fight is scum.

Your presumption that me pushing back against people who push me is scum-motivated is simply wrong.

[Iconeum]

I’m just going to also state this because it’s becoming rather tedious - meta arguments from the player themselves are not convincing. Listen I’m not great at hunting Scum. I’m not. I’m far better I think at pointing out Town and figuring out the game collectively via process of elimination. And my gut is telling me that Dk is just Town. I just think they have the game broadly right. So that’s why I am where I am. But I’m not hiding behind Dk. If we are wrong then yeah I suspect it’ll cost me. And that’s fine. I’m really trying my best here.

That's fair. I'm not saying you can't scumread me. I'm just trying to argue that ur wrong, and what you use to determine scumreading me is in fact not allignment indicative.

Let's drop the meta argument then. Please consider reading me in ISO (again?) and try to figure out what i'm doing. You should be able to see that i'm sorting players, making scumreads, making townreads, changing said reads, working together with others in determining reads etc.

Why are you not using actual AI indicative stuff like that to Judge my slot here?

[Iconeum]

Okay but you’re getting in people’s faces only after they found a reason to vote you. That’s the interesting part. It’s not just that you’re confrontational right. Because if that was it then sure, that could be a good way of sorting alignment. Making people trip by rattling their cage can work. I’ve definitely seen it, though I’m not a big proponent of this because it’s just difficult to keep things under control.

This actually isn't entirely true. It started with NPOW, who pushed GB. Not me. I got up in his face before he pushed me. And I used it to sort him. And like I said before, even NPOW felt what I was doing.

With VP you have a point, and there's a degree of OMGUS involved. Which is still not scum indicative tho.

With DK i'm not sure, i have to reread. I don't think I instantly voted him or pushed him back tho.

So yeah, I don't think what you say here is accurate at all.

[Iconeum]

Asking how many Scum are in a game is not a bad question

the question itself isn't bad

but an experienced player does not ask that question, he figures it out himself
or it's a fake question designed to get town credit

[Iconeum]

Asking how many Scum are in a game is not a bad question. I had a general sense for how many Scum - but site meta can vary. In my home site, Scum have such a bad record that games are Scum sided on purpose by Mods on average, with more Scum than you would typically expect. I get that this is the forum for more normal mechanics, but it’s still not ridiculous. And I don’t find it AI in any case.

i'm not pushing koba over this, either. I merely responded that I don't think it's a townslip and that people should not townread koba over asking that question.

[Iconeum]

So here's my progression on Dkkoba.
Andres, your statement that I just jump on people instantly when they vote me is wrong. Dead Wrong.
He jumped into the game with a set-in-stone scumread on me. I asked him a bunch of questions to explain a few things. That's me interacting with him in a normal fashion, trying to get information and engage with him.
It wasn't until he kept adamantly refusing to say anything and kept degrading me that I voted him.

Spoiler:

I'm coming into today with a fresh mind and a clean slate, towards anyone willing to grant me the same.

my fresh slate puts u as scum tho ))):

Sure. Why?

Here, from the top of my head:

1.Testarossa - Prob town. Can find myself agreeing a lot with this.
2.DkKoba JamSV - Null. Not sure if DK is still going full troll RVS, or trying to push my buttons. If actually serious about scumreading me i'd love to see an explanation.
3.Datisi - I'd love this to be town. Indicators are there for datisi to be town. Is somewhat invested already (good sign). Is sorting. Unfortunately there is also paranoia because Datisi knows how to handle me if she's scum.
4.Alduskkel - I don't remember reading a lot from this slot. Null.
5.Snowblaze - prob town, same as with Testa. I liked the question about VP's conclusion when pushing me, and has a clear town intent in that.
6.Iconeum - believe it or not, i'm actually town
7.VP Baltar - ehhhh. Benefit of the doubt.
8.GeorgeBailey - prob town.
9.Andresvmb - ehhhh. Benefit of the doubt
10.jankofan - who is this even
11.NoPowerOverMe - If i had a gun in hand, and was forced to use it, i'd probably shoot here. Very opportunistic play so far.
12.hellbooks - prob town. Don't remember a ton of posts, but was sorting earlier.
13.Billy Pilgrim - Tough. Billy usually scumreads me when I'm town. And I'd like to think i'm fairly hard in my town-meta, it's rough to see him townread me. But that can easily be something he learned from the past games. I don't see much scum motivated posts. If anyone scumreads here, they should post a case on why they think Billy is scum.

Yeap i'm lacking scumreads

For information purposes, NPOW would actually be a great lynch.

also how many scum are in a mini normal cause this is my firs ttime playing a mini normal

pls some1 answer this

i'd say 10v3

a quick scan thru the forum should prove this i suppose

Dkkoba how are you townreading datisi and GB but scumread me?

This game has somewhat developped into 2 sides, but if you scumread me i'd think you would have a hard time townreading datisi.

why do you think datisi is town?

i'm not saying she's not, but i'd like to hear your reasoning behind it

why do you think datisi is town?

i'm not saying she's not, but i'd like to hear your reasoning behind it

we can discuss that after u flip scum <3

you are sheeping my townreads but somehow i'm scum

also said townreads are basicly all townreading me but somehow you still think i'm scum

VOTE: dkkoba

[Iconeum]

Okay but you’re getting in people’s faces only after they found a reason to vote you.

So let's recap

I got in the face of NPOW, but before he pushed me. So this doesn't hold up.

I got in the face of VP, after he pushed me. Sure. But I ended up with a better read on him (And I think vice versa as well).

I got in the face of koba, but only after I made a lot of effort to engage with him in a normal way. My previous post shows that.

So no I don't think it is a true statement andres.

[Iconeum]

It’s difficult for me to trust that you will point at the correct AI things to read your slot by, wouldn’t you agree? So I’m using my past experience to look for things I typically see a certain category of players do (at least to start), and see if they’re pointing me in the right direction. Then I’ll see more information, and recalibrate. Obviously reading games where you’ve played might help, but people are also constantly correcting for what they perceive to be Scum tells so it’s not fool proof.

You don't have to trust me. I don't expect you to. I wouldn't trust what my scumread is telling me either. But there are other players in this game who have a TON of experience with me and they are shouting at you and everyone else this is town!Ico.

Obviously you are allowed to use your own experience, but I hope I just showed you that you are just misreading what I'm doing?

[Iconeum]

Like, datisi has been screaming that i'm town and that the reasons for scumreading me are in fact not indicative of anything.
Aldus even says i'm BLEEDING TOWN. I don't see anyone engaging with him over why and how he sees that.

So i get the feeling that people who scumread me don't want to know, because it doesn't fit their agenda. Do you understand that?

[Iconeum]

Speaking of snowblaze, they're another person I'd put in the "to yeet" pile with Billy Pilgrim for literally doing nothing so far to push the game forward. Particularly don't care for snowblaze's reaction to getting a few minor votes. Seemed quite exasperated to some mild pressure.

(snip)

Anyhow, right now we should yeet Billy or Snowblaze. Both are useless and high likelihood to be the scum who juuuuuust doesn't quite get the game state. They're both out of sync and trying to fit in like the 40 year old in a too-tight T-shirt at a singles mixer.

I don’t like this post, but I don’t even know if it’s AI at all. I just completely disagree on principle. (May or may not be because it’s me you’re talking about.)

The exasperation is because, as I mentioned earlier, I’ve been wagoned day one as town quite a bit recently and I don’t want it to happen again.

“doing nothing to push the game forward” - that’s kind of hard to do without scumreads a lot stronger than day-one-me ever gets unless I’m confbiasing.

“Useless”... no. Just no. That’s... really not true. I’m just approaching the game in a different way.

And even if I was “useless”, I don’t even see how that makes me scum as opposed to useless town.

I still think ur town.

[Iconeum]

You’re overextending my argument and making it sound absurd. I never argued that you had “instantaneously” voted players after they voted you. That would so bad and obvious that only a terrible player would do that. But it’s a rather quick progression from seeing a vote against you to placing a vote on them.

What DkKoba is doing btw - of ignoring you because they strongly SR you. That’s totally expected. You can’t convince Scum that they’re Scum is the logic. Far more experienced players than me have consistently quoted this back at me.

excuse me? it's to be expected that koba doesn't want to interact with me at all? why's that?

and even then, he also completely refused to work with datisi, one of his stronger townreads.

it's not about convincing scum that they're scum. It's about making sure your read is right.

[Iconeum]

In slightly more cheerful news, adding NPOM to my townleans. The repeated unvoting and backing off feels genuine, and I don’t think scum are as likely to do that when the wagons in question are still viable.

that's why i'm townreading VP at the moment. He backed off from my wagon at a time he didn't have to.

[Iconeum]

I really don’t see how you’re bleeding Town - I think that’s a terrible assessment. It’s fine if they want to excuse away some of what you’re doing because they’ve seen you do it elsewhere or whatever, but argue that it comes from certain Town... I’m going to disagree on that one.

but i also don't see you engaging with aldus on why he's wrong or wright

why is that?

as for the bleeding town part... you'll have to ask him. But I think I know.

[Iconeum]

i've said what i wanted to say

if you can't get away from your scumread on me after this talk then you never will

everything you need to make a correct read on me is here

at the very least i appreciate you at least try to engage with me, that's how the game should be played

[Iconeum]

I’m not engaging Aldus on their read of you because we’re diametrically opposed, and they can read my reasoning and decide for themselves. I don’t have to fight every single player to come to my point of view. That would be far too exhausting.

if ur town, you *should* in fact be engaging with aldus over that read. you should be making him explain what the bleeding part is according to him, in order to sort him. You should be trying to determine if his reasoning from his pov is legit coming from town, or perhaps he is the buddy to your scum!Ico read and you can catch him with bad reasonings when trying to help his scum buddy out.

[Iconeum]

it's not about you making him change his mind, it should be about you trying to figure out other player's allignments based on what they are saying
it doesn't matter if aldus is right or wrong according to you, what matters is his motivation and where he is getting that read from

[Iconeum]

Even now it's really hard for me to get a read on you, Andres. A part of me feels like you are just dead set with your scumread on me, and are in fact tunneling. That means you don't see the good parts about me, even when I throw it in your face lol. You never responded to what I think are the good parts that you don't take into account.

And when I show you that your scumread is coming from a wrong conclusion (shown in several posts i just make), you still just go 'nope this is still scum'.

So ur a tunnelvisioning town, or scum not wanting to go away from me.
From the way ur interacting with me i'm leaning the first.

[Iconeum]

VOTE: andres

i need more georgebailey.

do you think scum are committed to my lynch or not?

just like with VP, i'm not sure why scum would start backing down from the push on my at this point.

[Iconeum]

or is that just me with the full paranoia *scum must be pushing me at this point* thing?

[Iconeum]

hmm

of all players pushing me, i'm feeling relatively good about andres actually

why do you consider his push on me a scum!push and why is ranting about MS meta scum indicative?

[Iconeum]

weekend vla

back on monday

[Iconeum]

I just don't see the town purpose of pushing you at all. As for MS Meta, It's like signing up for a soccer game and complaining about the low scoring games. There's just not going to be anything good that comes out of it.

i think/feel that andres truly believes what it's pushing, as wrong as it in fact is and despite what others are telling him

not everyone who's pushing me is scum, and some of them *truly* believe what they see in me

andres is likely in this category

[Iconeum]

As for MS Meta, It's like signing up for a soccer game and complaining about the low scoring games. There's just not going to be anything good that comes out of it.

oh man

i don't see why that pings you tho

it was a small rant about these games being larger and longer then what he's used to. And it also explained why he wasn't very interested in re-assessing me.

[Iconeum]

ico, do you scumread anyone other than koba rn? (and do you even scumread them)

him refusing to engage with me and the way is is treating my slot make it impossible for me to townread him

strong scumreads is not something i currently have but i'll make a list

[Iconeum]

DK/janko

with a slither of NPOW - I don't like these latest posts and the reasoning behind them

DK and janko for what i have already explained and the utter lack of Original reads/opinions.

[Iconeum]

Maybe someone like VP, who figured that if he has to push me this hard to lynch me, would lose a TON of town credit upon my flip and decided it's probably not worth it.

[Iconeum]

my townreads have not really changed, except for NPOW who is really all over the spectrum wrt quality posts (nothing personal, you just have some very townie posts and a couple really scummy ones) - make it hard to get a solid read there

[Iconeum]

generally feeling solvey, interacting with players, trying to get reads. Feels more like a townie without good reads trying to establish a foothold then scum doing their thing.

like, allround townie work? Lacking some strong conclusions i guess.

What's the scumcase on Snow again?

[Iconeum]

lowkey scummy reaction to getting wagoned

scummier then, say, NPOW in the early game reaction to those 2 votes on him?

[Iconeum]

who's actually townreading koba here?