Open 790 | Purgatory | Game Over!

[Green Crayons]

UNVOTE: Haya

Haya's confirmed town by this point. She didn't self hammer into heaven. Her couple of posts don't look particularly WIFOMy and if she were to flip scum they don't really screw around too much with gamestate.

How about we keep confirmed town Haya in the game and instead test one of our second-tier town reads?

[Hayasaka]

GC should probably come to heaven next, he keeps double downing on things that are making the crowd go kinda nuts towards him. I think the way he tunneled is town and I think it has no regard for how people perceive him. He locked himself out of the first heaven, pushing me for heaven initially definitely was a big deal in driving it through and it's not like I didn't have a chance to fumble later in the game or just push through some level of a deep wolf.

I really think that getting me heavened was pretty stoppable in some form given I really was neutral on the idea of getting heavened myself lol.

I still believe that a reasonable scum player wouldn't just hard push someone like that. Because he put the 2nd condition on his own heavening that we have to realize once he hits heaven he is just going to drive Cthylla into the ground all game. I believe this read to be a lot stronger then my Dann actually which tbh I wouldn't be able to explain if you asked me to. Since for Dann it's really "I like his posts and I don't dislike his posts".

Honestly I guess a conditional on GC is he could just be right and doesn't ever expect to win the 1v1? It wouldn't stop Cthylla from being heavened and would prompty get him heavened after. But now is not the time to consider these convoluted low % worlds.

[Hayasaka]

How about we keep confirmed town Haya in the game and instead test one of our second-tier town reads?

I don't add nearly enough to the game for this to be a good idea.

[Green Crayons]

VOTE: Hayasaka

Alrighty. Just a thought.

[Hayasaka]

I am unsure if the Isis posts are town or scum. They keep erring on the side of caution in regards to how we should send town to heaven. But after our varying disagreements in the dance game on theory at the very least I am willing to vouch that she believes what she is saying right now. The issue behind this phase and the last phase as whole in regards to analyzing her is. Everyone wanted to play badly last phase outside GC and following theory you believe to push the town I basically am almost already sure is going to flip town is also not that alignment indicative. So from a pure action standpoint I can't look at anything Isis has done and go "ah yes clear town play". And her tone is mildly townie I guess but that just isn't good enough as a reason on it's own when I think all the ideas behind the posts can be faked.

So honestly I am going to decide this read in Heaven.

pedit: It's ok I think Clidd is still more useful then me, and this belief should be held in heaven 2. Ty <3

[Hayasaka]

My thing that balances out Isis tone is that she has a singular post after I vote Walter day start that says she is fine doing it. When voting walter was the stupidest thing I've done all game. I know I also fucked this up but something something deluxe oil :^)

I think Walter is shifting in and outside of this thread in a way akin to scum. He proceeds to hold me as a top town read but votes in Isis instead which feels like an awful idea to me. Maybe from the perspective of Isis where she knows she is town that would be a better look. But even when I imagine Isis as town it's just a vote on a townie that will never amount to anything. It's incredibly weird actually and he should die next.

[Hayasaka]

Cthylla has some town moments and reactions to the push made by GC. Nothing to write home about but I also don't hate it. Probably slightl above Isis but the 2 slots are comparable enough that the one I rank higher is entirely dependant on how I feel about the previous page over any real solid logic.

Cthylla has the tunnel on GC and I find as scum hiding behind a tunnel isn't the hardest thing in the world. It's actuallly what a lot of pretty above average players like to do which is the camp I'd probably throw Hectic in. But meh, it's a good strat because town do it, I should really build a spreadsheet on comparing tunnels to alignments. Given tunnels are usually 2 ways this tell could never break 50% but it would be interesting to see if it's rand of like 35% of the time it's done by scum.

[Hayasaka]

Norwee is largly poe but I think in a game of this content volume you shouldn't just look like a throwaway POE yeet.
I think Walter has explicitly done scummy things and should die first. But Norwee is like the confusion "ah ok just kill this guy he flips wolves often enough". I am sure if I took the proper time to read his ISO I could get a read that isn't shit but it's not something I want to do first thing in the morning.

[Hayasaka]

Since no one is going to actually read any of the above posts I am going to make a cute little "how to survive package" package before I go.

[Hayasaka]

Spoiler:

Hard Town Do Not Touch

Clidd - Make sure not to heaven this boi
GreenCrayon - This guy should Be heavened next

Idk (ordered)

Dann
Cthylla
Isis

Idk probably murder

Norwee

Murder Zone

Walter

[Hayasaka]

VOTE: Hayasaka

[Hayasaka]

For heaven 2, I truly believe at this moment in time Clidd is the direction we need. If we ever heaven scum Clidd goes but until then just keep him.

[Cthylla]

o7

quality stuff, I'll try my beat to reevaluate my read on Green Crayons if you're so sure on him

[Hayasaka]

For heaven 2, I truly believe at this moment in time Clidd is the direction we need. If we ever heaven scum Clidd goes but until then just keep him.

I just think that whoever is our 2nd top town read isn't dying anyway so going them -> Clidd isn't that much worse for us then going Clidd -> them. I think giving anyone but Clidd a pass gets a bit icky since we our passing over multiple towns in that case. But outside that what we are doing should be fine.

[Hayasaka]

o7

quality stuff, I'll try my beat to reevaluate my read on Green Crayons if you're so sure on him

o7

[WaltertheDunce10]

My thing that balances out Isis tone is that she has a singular post after I vote Walter day start that says she is fine doing it. When voting walter was the stupidest thing I've done all game. I know I also fucked this up but something something deluxe oil :^)

I think Walter is shifting in and outside of this thread in a way akin to scum. He proceeds to hold me as a top town read but votes in Isis instead which feels like an awful idea to me. Maybe from the perspective of Isis where she knows she is town that would be a better look. But even when I imagine Isis as town it's just a vote on a townie that will never amount to anything. It's incredibly weird actually and he should die next.

I will try to be on more for next phase.
Right haya I hold you as a top 3 town read along with Isis and Clidd.

[NorwegianboyEE]

What’s the VC? Looks like Haya’s piling on the votes so far.

[WaltertheDunce10]

I believe the self-vote was hammer.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Oh no. Not the self-hammer.

[WaltertheDunce10]

Yep, it sure is.

[Dannflor]

I think shit like Dann wanting to stay behind is bad because I don't really see him being some glue that is holding us together in the thread. And I think the logic of someone having 5% better reads then average and should stay is actually kinda bad, since you can use your reads in heaven anyway.

Content generation on an average player is far more useful to the town then an above average player. Not to mention he can act as glue pretty well. A player who can generate the content needed to make the game a lot more solvable or hold the group together are the most valuable asset to win a game. Clidd does both of those things and just getting rid of him to get a 98% town read over a 93% town read is just a horrid mistake to me.

my logic for wanting to stay was not because I think I have better reads than average

I also now see why my logic is bad and I'm less attached to staying here

[Dannflor]

at least, I don't see it making sense unless a consensus town read like Hayasaka or clidd is scum, which I find unlikely

Why would it make sense only if that scenario?

because I think a great risk of their spat is that one gets heavened and the other gets helled

Especially if people keep pushing that they are SvT, and scum need to get at least two in heaven or win judgement day. If their third member is like walter it doesn't really make sense. Unless they think they're gonna both get town read for the 1v1

[Dannflor]

actually thinking about it, they might hope one of them getting heavened and flipping scum leads to the other one getting heavened but ehhhh

I'm not sold this is faked

[Hayasaka]

I wouldn't be posting so much post hammer if I was scum lol.
I was really tempted to just mention Isis or something and say "sorry if you felt I was trying to pocket you" just to bait a reaction.
But idk I think most people could play off me faking a scum claim like that and I was worried it would hurt the town.

[Hayasaka]

A few games ago, I helped someone fake a hammer on someone, played along with it. That person ended up being scum and I scum read them down the line. Due to that line of play I did no one would trust my read. And I sort of blame myself for that since I enabled the play and even bought it initially.