Open 88 - Polygamist Mafia (Game Over) before 650

[OpposedForce]

vote: OpposedForce

What force are you opposing exactly?

Vote:Caboose

[OpposedForce]

Okay so just to get out of this dreaded random voting stage which seems to go on forever is anyone up for a lover's massclaim?

[OpposedForce]

People for Massclaim:

OpposedForce
Farside22
Llamafluff
Zoolander
jahudo
kloud1516
jebus

People not yet confirmed for Massclaim:

armlx
caboose
3fj
goatrevolt
The Pope's Tiara

[OpposedForce]

We should probably establish some kind of order to the claim. Just saying. Since Zoolander has already claimed, I suggest Popcorning it (each person who claims chooses the next one). More info then random.

Sounds good

[OpposedForce]

I am lovers with Jahudo

Next is Caboose

[OpposedForce]

Here's another thought: Random vote? Minus my pair, or yours as you may see it, there are 10 people. You have a 2/5 chance of hitting. After one lynch, that goes to a 3/5 chance. Odds are, we hit and win, or get caught in a stalemate doing so.

Thoughts?

I don't see what your getting at. If we mislynch then we go to another day with two pairs dead with another pair being nightkilled in night 1 then we find ours in lylo and we either lynch scum or mislynch once again and lose the game.

[OpposedForce]

i think there is no night in this setup, so there will be no nightkilling.

Oops checked Xtoxm's post and saw it was nightless. My mistake scratch that from my post.

[OpposedForce]

So far I don't believe Zoo and Jahudo are scum group together. Yes I think scum will bus scum and all that but the interplay between them tells me no they are not scum group together. I notice at one point Zoo and Kloud had 3 votes.
OF I know you are in another Poly game didn't you know they were nighless?

Unforunately I didn't know that this game was nightless and I assumed that since the other game (cannot reference for it is ongoing) was a slightly differnt setup it wouldn't be nightless but it was. Looking back I can see why it's nightless because with the lover pairs and everything.

I'm agaisnt the idea of randomly lynching a person even when the assumed odds are 60% because there is always the 40% of mislynching and playing the game strategically and normally will help raise the odds of hitting scum due to cases and evidence. Also if we lynch a townie D1 and go into the next day we do have a better chance of hitting scum but we also have the chance of hitting townie and since it was just a random lynch last day then there isn't much to go on to lynch scum.

[OpposedForce]

Nah, when we're talking about random lynches, we mean entirely randomly. As in like a dice roll, entirely free of any manipulation.

I entirely don't agree with this. Like I stated before there is the percentage of hitting scum but also the percentage of hitting town. If we were to lynch town then we would have no evidence the next day to make any assumpation on who is scum and then if we random lynch again then although the chance of hitting scum is higher there is also the dangerous probability of hittting town and we can't risk that.

Take for example if we do decide on a random lynch:

Day 1:

-Town majority decides to lynch based on a dice roll.
-Two possible outcomes can come out of this
A. Dice hits scum and we win the game
B. Dice hits town and two townies are lynched
- If B happens then it goes to Day 2

Day 2:
-Town has no information to go on from previous day except the roles of two deceased townies and narrowing the choices of lynches.
-If town decides to randomly lynch again then
A. We hit scum and win the game with higher percentage
B.We hit town and then two more townies are lynched.
-If B happens then it goes to Day 3

Day 3
-Town still yeilds no information except the roles of two more dead townies.
-If town yet again decides to randomly lynch then
A. We hit scum and win the game with a much higher percentage
B.We hit town and then lynch two more townies losing the game.

While the percentage of a scum lynch increases through each day of a random lynch there always remains the probability of hitting town through the lynch. If town just uses evidence and facts then they have a much better of hitting scum with town discussion and don't have to spend any town casualities or risks. It's much better to play the game normally then to randomly lynch because with a normal play it makes it much easier for everybody.

[OpposedForce]

I entirely don't agree with this. Like I stated before there is the percentage of hitting scum but also the percentage of hitting town. If we were to lynch town then we would have no evidence the next day to make any assumpation on who is scum and then if we random lynch again then although the chance of hitting scum is higher there is also the dangerous probability of hittting town and we can't risk that.

This is a complete misinterpretation of what goat was saying there. He is against the dice roll vote and was explaining what he made Jebus' plan out to be. So far Jebus is the only person who has suggested a random vote plan. It is well established at this point that we are not going to throw dice to try and win this game but scumhunt (and use connections from random voting that someone still needs to explain to me).

Also, why are you still voting for Caboose? You have mentioned Jebus' plan a few times already, but apart from that you have stayed out of all discussion. This doesnt line up with your vote, as you oppose the plan but at the same time are merely shooting it down. So: Does Jebus suggesting this plan make her more likely scum or town? If scum why arent you voting Jebus?

FoS OpposedForce

I never accused Goat of anything. I only disagreed with the sentiment and gave my own thoughts to it. IF I did disagree with him then I would of pointed it out and even responded to his last post where he mentions randomly lynching.

To respond to me "staying out of the discussion" I've been busy for the past few days and couldn't really get into posting my thoughts and discussing things. I tried to stay online and get active but real life gets into the way. My vote for Caboose was random and I forgot to unvote.

Unvote:caboose

Also why are you pointing that I should be voting Jebus because I disagree with the thing? Yes I do disagree with the random lynching act but at this point I don't think it warrants a vote.

OpposedForce, there is no Day 3. There is only D1 and maybe D2 in this game.

Checked back and saw what you were talking back. A miscalculation on my part. (never been good with statisitcs and numbers) However it kind of reaffirms on my opposition of randomly lynching because it even puts us in a worser position if we mislynch day 1.

[OpposedForce]

To respond to me "staying out of the discussion" I've been busy for the past few days and couldn't really get into posting my thoughts and discussing things. I tried to stay online and get active but real life gets into the way

You have more posts then me, yet you really havent contributed much (random, massclaim stuff, dice roll, and talking about setup). The problem with arguing over the dice roll vote is that we all know its a stupid idea. By simply stating what everyone knows you add nothing to the conversation but appear better for saying what everyone knows to be true. Its just filler to make you more town looking. The other things you have talked about also do nothing to advance scumhunting, more filler.

Also why are you pointing that I should be voting Jebus because I disagree with the thing? Yes I do disagree with the random lynching act but at this point I don't think it warrants a vote.

Well I tend to be a little agressive and vote quite a bit, so it may be a difference in playstyle. From what I have read though, Jebus seems to be at the top of your scum list, yes your vote was on Caboose, and now is in your pocket. You have however avoided my main question so I will ask it again here.

1) Do you think Jebus suggesting dice roll makes him more or less likely to be scum?
2) If its more likely, why arent you voting Jebus

unvote
vote OpposedForce

I posted the random lynch outcome because I was throwing in my opinion and how it's a bad idea to do. Apparently there was still some confusion over it so you saying I did it just to make me look more town is bullshit. I think your trying to find the most idiotic reasons to place a safe vote on me. Also couldn't I do the same thing to you?

This is where we need adel. One of those diagram thingies would be great here.

What we also need is some scumhunting

What we also need is some scumhunting

This is true, and the diagram is one method of doing so (that I usually don't care enough about to use).

I just dont see what an overanalysis of the first three pages of votes will accomplish at this point that simple scumhunting cant,

I dont think many if any have even cast something more then a random. Ususally voting history doesnt even come into play as concrete evidence untill late in the game.

Your logic onto me for posting filler can apply onto you so that's where your case on me fails.

And before anyone asks yes I do suspect Jebus in fact I have a few suspects at the moment that I've found suspicous. I'm not voting yet because I want discussion to further and see what everybody gives their take on.

[OpposedForce]

@Opposed Force: was your argument directed more towards Goat or Jebus or about equal? I don't think he named names.

I didn't direct it towards anyone but I gave my inital disagreement with it and any suspiscions I had I didn't show it in that post.

[OpposedForce]

Your logic onto me for posting filler can apply onto you so that's where your case on me fails.

And before anyone asks yes I do suspect Jebus in fact I have a few suspects at the moment that I've found suspicous. I'm not voting yet because I want discussion to further and see what everybody gives their take on.

Actually with less posts then you I have been pushing more people, both Jebus and you. While you have spoken ill about Jebus' plan, you did not really take any stance towards his alignment untill I more recently half forced you to. Looking back at your posts, you have taken no stance on anyone really, apart from a random on Caboose. Since then all you have done is disagreed, and when pressured, said Jebus was suspicious along with a few others. You still arent voting.

I also dont like your "I want other peoples opinions" reasoning for holding out on acting on any of your suspicions. If you have suspicions you act on them, you dont just keep them to yourself and modify them when everyone else has checked in. I would at least prefer to hear your LoS before other people start putting theirs out there if not even get a vote out of you, even though im pretty sure im going to get OMGUSed

Forced me to? I've had my suspicions before your posts hence why I disagreed with the whole random voting thing. I never directed the case on everybody because I wanted to see what others had to say about and if your going to come up with "I forced him to state he had suspicions" BS then I got nothing to say in my defense because that kind of logic is crap and your twisting around my words. I never stated that I wanted to "sit back and see other people's opinions" I said I wanted to see discussion further with MYSELF involving in it. Your twisting what I'm saying to put a crap case on me.

Vote:LlamaFluff

I'm risking this of being OMGUS but I have my reasons mainly with him pinning useless things on me like "I had a vote on caboose" when I initally forgot to unvote and him pretty much trying twisting around my words to make me look scummier.

[OpposedForce]

The point is you never gave any suspicions. If you wont say what they are how are you really going to get scum lynched? *spoiler* you arent. We arent all psychics here. I think that I did more or less push you into showing your suspicions though, up untill I started pressuring you the only thing you looked at as vaugely scummy was Jebus. That fact is a valid point against you, especially since you claim that you do have suspicions. I dont see any town reasons to keep them hidden.

Also the fact that you "refuse to vote untill discussion breaks out" doesnt sit well. It takes something to stimulate discussion and it looks like me pushing you did it. When you wait for others to control discussion you just go along with the ride or have to fight the direction, given that again you claim to of been suspect of a few players, I dont get how you dont push discussion on the players you suspect or even vote them. It may just be contrasting playstyles, but not voting a suspect doesnt make sense to me.

*just for the sake of space I'm only going to quote this section*

I'll explain this as the best as I can with this paragraph responding to your first paragraph. I have stated before that "you pushing me" is invalid on my list of suspicions. You keep stating that you pressuring me had made me come up with a quick response but I have had my suspicions on people and trying to formulate what kind of tells they have dropped. The reason why I haven't stated my suspicions is because I want to see where it goes in

"discussion"

meaning with discussion I can check back and see if my suspicions are justified. When I have enough evidence then I'll share them with the town. Showing them this early won't be as much use as it could be later in discussion. The only thing you seem to be pinning on me is the "I've pressured you into stating false things" which is untrue and this kind of logic will get you nowhere except trying to stubbornly prove that your right.

I have never stated that I would vote when discussion breaks out. This is yet another misinterpretation of what I meant. I'll state it again. I wanted people to discuss with myself included in the discussion in order for me to pick up tells or information on people. I never meant to "stay in the shadows and wait for a bandwagon to form to jump on" is pretty much what your trying to accuse me of. Your stating that I'll just wait for discussion to happen and that isn't true. I've already checked back and seen what has happened and tooken note of everything. This whole arguement with you will ironically spark discussion and that's how it gets going. You've misinterpretated me and pinned false logic on me and that's why I'm voting you.

[OpposedForce]

First, I am increadably stubborn in this game, especially when I feel confident. Second, explain the bolded part to me as this is one of the main points im getting at as to why you are scum. I dont see why town would avoid putting out suspicion and trying to get their suspects lynched. You say that its because you get reads off them during discussion that you act on, but without giving us any suspicions you are able to jump any wagon you want as they could of been your top suspect. There is no trail of suspicion from you. When you pressure people with cases and votes you get better reads off them then general discussion from my experiance.

Well I never saw you try to instigate any discussion. The last few things you mentioned before our little back-and-forth here was dice rolls and setup of the game. While "stay in the shadows and wait for a bandwagon" may be an overexaggeration, you also dont seem to want to take the role of "open discussion that leads to a lynch". Given that you are opposed to the dice roll, I dont get how you are opposed, or unwilling, to creating discussion. Where is everyone else though? OF and I are just yelling at eachother here and no one else is saying anything.

*Once again just cutting down the post for space*
(This will correspond with paragraph one)
The section that you had bolded was supposed to mean that "I have suspicions but with further discussion the evidence of my suspicions will grow and then I can share it with the town and if I share them now it won't be as useful further in discussion" I do have suspicions yes but with discussion they can grow because as of now I don't have much to go on. Now you state that I'll bandwagon with stating false suspicions? This is complete nonsense. Your stating that I can just jump abroad a bandwagon to push a lynch? Now I see your just putting up scenarios to pin things on me. I'll state this one last time: "With discussion it'll help not only me but the town to decide a lynch" in other words with discussion it'll help decide a lynch with town consensus. Your assuming I won't put any of my own thoughts or opinions in and talk with the town about a lynch or activity and you also assume I won't pressure or build cases which is a complete utter misunderstanding and your trying to state of what I might do to pin blame on me which is foolish and scummy.

(This will correspond with paragraph 2)
Your putting posts of what I said past as me being incomptent and unwillingly to help town even though I haven't had time to get into full discussion. Your judging me from a few posts early within the day and your trying to grasp at scenarios here to accuse me of being useless and being scum. You've generally misinterpreted me and made up scenarios to pin blame on me. Your case on me as I can tell is full of holes and general lack of actual evidence (this is justified as all your stating is that I won't participate in lynches or discussion)

[OpposedForce]

Im going to try and address specific points here, given that what each of us say seems to be identical each time, I think one of us is missing what the other is saying.

Your assuming I won't put any of my own thoughts or opinions in and talk with the town about a lynch or activity and you also assume I won't pressure or build cases which is a complete utter misunderstanding and your trying to state of what I might do to pin blame on me which is foolish and scummy.

I am not trying to push the fact that you wont participate or make a case directly. What I dont understand is that you claim that discussion helps you get a better read on people, but you didnt start discussion on a suspicion related topic. I dont understand why someone who gets reads of general discussion would not be the first one out the gate generating it.

This playstyle makes it odd that you arent making a case or a discussion topic, so indirectly I think you look scummy for not doing those.

This really is my main point and what I have been saying over and over in different ways. You being a player that benifits from discussion and not quickly generating it doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me, this is why I am pressuring you which ironically is generating discussion.

Hopefully I got my point across here, it seems we are both just grasping at shadows regarding what we are saying.

Does ANYONE else have something to say though?

Your case and main point are not going to acheive anything. You've voted me for not generating discussion and you believe that I'm scum to just sit back and jump onto a bandwagon when the oppurtunity rises? Because that seems to be the case otherwise there would be no reason to vote me. Your case on me has been about:
-A random vote
-Not voting Jebus
-I haven't "contributed" much
You say that were just both "grasping at shadows" but I see that you've decided to twist my words during the arguement as well as making up mock scenarios such as me going to jump onto a bandwagon during discussion to pin blame on me as scum. I believe you just voted me to put a safe vote on to make it appear that you've caught scum but with your current case there's so much nonsense in it that I'm content with my vote on you.

I'll wait to see what others have to say.

[OpposedForce]

Just a question for anyone and everyone. Do you think the scum know this game is nightless? I mean don't you think that would have been part of their talks before the day started?

Most likely they would discuss about the setup because with 4 of them total they'd have to look over everything and be careful not to be lynched because it'd all be over so I would suppose they took precautions with the setup and everything.

[OpposedForce]

Hello is anybody here?

[OpposedForce]

Apologies. Been busy over the past week. Picking up prod.

paraphrased quicktopic thread:

xtox opens thread

Jebus: We should random lynch someone since we only have to kill one scum to win and there is no night phase. Day 1 our chances are 2/5, and day 2 wit will be 3/5, so overal it will be 50/50. I will introduce the idea. We should roleclaim early.
3jf: early roleclaim will just make us a target. We should random lynch though.
3jf:

Also we should vote for somebody different every two days to avoid suspicion.

Day 1 you should fos, and then I'll vote for them.
Day 2 we both pick separate people scummy people

Jebus: It is a plan then. I'll go after kloud

xtoxm closes thread

Wow. I was inclined not to vote Jebus but this is just to off the chart for me.

Vote:Adel

At the beggining of the game I didn't really put a vote on (him/her?) because I thought it was a town slip but now after seeing this paraphrase I can't comprehend what kind of a mess that intention would of gotten us into. Note the first part bolded when 3jf suggests to vote for someone different to avoid suspicion. It wouldn't be for the town's well being to push a random lynch on different people and have the chance of mislynching to save yourself of suspicion. I see scum trying to mislynch and at the same time avoid any suspicion.

The second bolded part is ridiculous and scummy. I can only see scum trying to aim for a townie to lynch with the whole diversion of randomly lynching to get them to victory. If they were town thinking the idea of randomly lynching then why choose a specific person? (in this case Kloud) Why not go along with town consensus to choose a random lynch instead of trying to aim for a person. It seems to me like scum choosing a townie then wanting to lynch them Day 1 to safely get them to Day 2.