Mini 2150 - Anime SeiyuU-Pick [SHOW'S OVER!]

[jks]

Hello.

Gonna catch up in about 12 hours.

[jks]

Slowly catching up now. I'll just post the cliffsnotes of some posts I like or don't like as I'm catching up. If you want me to expand on a particular thought process, ask.

12 (Deimos27) Mild town vibes from the tone here.

69 (HoldenGolden) Town post.

72 (Mikul) Mild scum vibes.

99 (HoldenGolden) Mild town vibes.

I don't mind mastina's entrance into the game, particularly if she was spotting the same things I was spotting in 122/127.

At first I thought maybe Mikul was trying a reaction test across pages 4/5 to get reads (which was giving me mild town vibes for the way it was happening), but the lack of any conclusions means I was probably reading that incorrectly. Don't like 128. 138 reads like an attempt at fishing for support over a genuine thought process. I don't believe the logic in 144 is genuine either. (Plus it's an easy clutch to hold on to rather than making an attempt at scum hunting.)

149 (Panzerjager) I actually believe the part about being third party. I don't really trust anything else here.

I don't mind TrueSoulEnergy's entrance on page 7. Feels mildly town. Nothing spectacular.

183 (HoldenGolden) Town vibes (though I disagree with the logic entirely). I like the tone of the rest of HoldenGolden's posts on this page too.

When I first read Tuxedo Mask's 200, it felt mildly town. The reaction to the "vig" shot feels off though. Particularly 206/207. The conclusion that HoldenGolden was "confirmed town" for that feels like a logical leap.

mastina's posts on page 10 look town. I don't agree with a lot of the logic, but I do think the way the conclusions were reached seems genuine.

I don't mind Panther and Fox's entrance in the game. Particularly the tone of 243.



Continuing after lunch.

[jks]

The focus on claims from Mikul in 251 and 252 looks like scum who's picked up on a reason to ignore doing any actual scum hunting by focusing on claims to the exclusion of all other content. I feel like a town player would have had something to say about the rest of mastina's posts by now. Instead it's all about the mason claim.

I dislike Mikul's 274. Other than the fact that nobody seems to have given mastina any "clemency" for the mason claim, the whole case Mikul has posted falls apart if it's an established meta point (but there's no acknowledgement of this, which makes me think the problems with the claim aren't really genuine).

279 (TheThirteenthJT) I dislike the tone of this post, particularly the last sentence here sounds fake. Also dislike 307 - it's hard to follow the lines of logic here (even granting it might be coming from a newer player) and there's too much noise in this masquerading as content.

310->313 (Deimos27) Town vibes.

I still don't believe Mikul's push on mastin is coming from a genuine place and I don't think the way he addresses the concerns with it (e.g. in 343 and 357) still doesn't sound to me like someone who thinks they've really caught scum in a lie. Mikul says mastin is scum regardless, but still hasn't talked about anything other than the claim. Side note: the weak defense of Tuxedo Mask (vaguely elaborated on in 366) is something to come back and look at if Mikul is scum.

Fairly meh on catboi's first contribution in 416. A lot of the thought processes look kind of stretched given the justification.

425 *

---

Mikul's also not tunneled exclusively on me, and is pressing elsewhere as well, with good pushes and good reasoning. Overall, Mikul is definitely one of the towniest players in this game and while I have no prior meta with Mikul, I'd be flabbergasted if Mikul was this good at scumplay.

This is entirely incorrect in almost every way it can be incorrect. Up to this point, Mikul has shown suspicion of two claims (yours and Panzer's, but as far as I'm aware, he doesn't think Panzer is scum so much as third party) and an incredibly weak suspicion of TheThirteenthJT (but no actual pressure there).

Side note: if you moved popopopopo down to null and moved Mikul to where you have my slot, the reads here wouldn't be that much different from my own.

Mikul's entrance on the other hand was good! no further notes there.

TheThirteenJT's reaction to the mason claim is good. like the mindset.

Can you expand on these two (assuming you haven't in the next 10ish pages)?

---

I dislike Mikul's 485, particularly the fence-sitting on my slot now that public opinion is swaying. I don't really believe the elaboration on the mastina read.

[jks]

Thinking I might be wrong about my catboi read. I actually really like 550/553.

I don't mind TheThirteenthJT's string of posts on p23.

I dislike how Shiro jumped onto the Battle Mage wagon (572).

Gonna have to finish catching up after sleep. Eyelids getting heavy around p25.

[jks]

Actually, looking back at Shiro's vote, I don't think it's as bad-looking as I first thought it was. It's just lazy. And there was a post on p24 I thought looked mildly town from Shiro.

Think I'm going really wrong somewhere with at least one of my town reads, might look back over stuff in the morning when I'm done catching up.

[jks]

Vote: JacksonVirgo

I realise it might not happen today given both the amount of time remaining (I didn't realise there was so little) and the amount of people who seem to oppose it, but could the people saying Mikul is town explain why they think this with more than "I disagree" or "Mikul pushed a mason claim"?

I see mastina keeps hinting at there being so much more to be found in Mikul's posts, but I'm going back over the posts and I don't see it.

Outside of what I'm guessing was a reaction test with Battle Mage that didn't lead to anything of substance (see: even when Mikul later talks about Battle Mage, there's no hint that this interaction had any impact), there's only one real push: the mason claim. And the justification for pushing that mason claim was lacklustre (entirely theory about why it's good to force a mason claim to confirm it). And when questioned by Deimos27 about whether mastina frequently claiming it would make a difference to this read, the answer is just no, with more theory about why it's good to force the mason claim to confirm whether it's a lie.

Could a town player think pressuring a mason claim is good? Sure. But I think a town player who has a scum read on said mason claim would do more than talk theory points. Especially since it wasn't like an "I think she's scum for the claim" thing - it was just an "I think scum could make that claim" thing. (Also, a lot of the theory was just wrong, because nobody actually believed the mason claim, and nobody stated any intent to let mastina skate by because of the claim.)

Mikul mentions not liking other aspects of mastina's claim, but never actually puts any pressure on mastina in that regard. It's just a mention, with the sole actual focus being the mason thing. That's why I call it an easy clutch to avoid scum hunting. And that's why I don't think there was any genuine belief that mastina was scum.

Snip out the mason stuff from Mikul's ISO, and you're left with no strong opinions on anything except for a couple of mentions of not liking wagons (no real reason why) and a couple of opinions that don't get detailed.

Nothing JacksonVirgo has done has pinged me that much, but I'm not seeing anything particularly town-looking either.

I was busier than I thought I'd be today and I've got an early start tomorrow, but I might go back over Mikul's ISO and detail my issues with particular posts in a bit more depth.

[jks]

Oh, and I think a lot of the language Mikul used was more indicative of scum than town, but this is a bit harder to explain. I might try to do it anyway.

Also, for what it's worth, I believe Panzerjager is third party and I believe that Panzerjager wants to be targeted by night actions in this game (probably three times like he claims but I don't fully trust this number). That's as much as I believe about his claim. I don't believe he currently has no win condition. And I don't really believe that he becomes town with super-awesome powers after being targeted on three separate nights. I don't really think he's factional scum though (at least, I think his claim doesn't make a lot of sense to make as scum). I'm currently thinking he's most likely just third party who exits the game after achieving his win condition (and I think his win condition is being targeted a number of times). Or at least this is what I'm currently mulling over in my head with regards to his claim.

I need to reread catboi/Tuxedo Mask in the morning.

[jks]

OK.

ANIME SEIYUU-PICK EPISODE 1

VOTECOUNT 1.9

catboi

(4): Donkey Kong, Deimos27, Titus, MariaR

jks

(2): Shiro, catboi

mastina(L)

(2): beeboy, Panzerjager

Titus

(1): JacksonVirgo

Panzerjager

(1): mastina(L)

JacksonVirgo

(1): jks

Not voting (2)

: Starbuck, Tipsy

13 players remaining, 7 to Vote Out.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-07-28 20:30:00).

Emphasising the time left in this day phase.

People should really start putting out a list of people they'd be willing to consider voting (preferably with a little detail about why) and start consolidating on wagons.

This day phase is probably going to end in rush-voting someone which sucks information-wise but it is what it is at this point.

If you want someone voted, make a case for why they're the best vote. You're (probably) not going to convince anyone by yelling "vote X" over and over.

I think mastina, Starbuck, Deimos27, MariaR are probably town. I think Tipsy is more likely town than scum but I don't really have strong feelings here. Same with Donkey Kong actually - reading between the lines of his posts, he actually is trying to progress the game albeit in a memey way, but there's nothing that strikes me as solidly town in his posting.

I don't really have strong feelings about most of the rest of the game. Titus and Shiro haven't really done anything I'd consider really alignment-indicative so far and they're probably the worst lynches information-wise. I think beeboy might be scum but there doesn't seem to be a lot of support there at the moment? (Not really sure on this, it's hard to gauge how most people are feeling about this slot at the moment.)

I'd obviously prefer lynching JacksonVirgo today but nobody wants to engage me on this.

I'm going to do an ISO-dive of catboi/Tuxedo Mask in a minute.

[jks]

@Starbuck,

I replaced Battle Mage.

Also, you're mixing up who claimed what. mastina's role isn't an audition power (the mod confirmed she has it today and she didn't win the audition), Panzerjager is the one saying he becomes loved when he wins the audition.

For what it's worth, I expect there's going to be a bit of role overlap in this game (I think it's role madness and I think there's probably more than one other overlap), so I don't think the fact that two people have something in common role-wise is an indication that one must be scum. This isn't like a situation where there's a counter-claim.

And it's not that other people are calling Panzerjager third party; that's what he claimed himself. He says he becomes town later (if he's targeted by roles on three separate nights), but he claims he is currently neutral.

Also, is no one thinking its weird that mastina is speaking for a quiet player and doing his claim?

There's about a day left in this day phase. If mastina is worried about Deimos27 getting run up while not being here, it's not that strange. It's pretty clear that Deimos27 hasn't been here lately.

Deimos also called me out when I mentioned his crumb in my opening post. One of his first posts was a gif of Captain Hook locking away Tinkerbell. I think I know what he was crumbing, so I don't necessarily think that he and mastina are linked and I think she's a lying liar who lies.

I think Deimos27 was just trying to gauge your motivation in calling it out (as in, I think him calling you out was purely to understand why you brought it up). I doubt the "crumb" means what you think it means.

Plus, if mastina is lying, then all it would actually take is for Deimos27 to show up in the thread and go "nuh-uh". I don't really understand what people think scum-mastina gains from doing this.

[jks]

@catboi,

What's your current read on Titus?

(And if it isn't obvious what the followup questions here are, "why did you vote Deimos27 when Titus asked you to?" // "why don't you have any gripes about Titus leading that wagon?")

[jks]

Also, you're mixing up who claimed what. mastina's role isn't an audition power (the mod confirmed she has it today and she didn't win the audition), Panzerjager is the one saying he becomes loved when he wins the audition.

I don't want to go back and find it but the paraphrase of her claim was She's loved until she is L-2 ulthem she loses the modifier, unless she won the auction, under which case she stays loved. I find that claim pretty silly but my role is also silly?

Yeah, you're correct, I misremembered it. Doesn't really matter though. I think there's probably a few roles that are going to overlap in some ways in this game (I expect there'll be both overlap between town/town and town/scum and maybe scum/scum but that's harder to verify obviously). I don't think people should go down the road of hunting for scum based on role similarities is the main point here.

[jks]

You know, even if you don't think mastina is town by play and even if you don't believe the things mastina is saying, voting for mastina before Deimos27 either shows up or is replaced is just plain dumb.

[jks]

@catboi,

Is mastina a scum read now? Or just a "better mastina than other viable options" read?

Also, why is Mikul a strong town read for you? Is it still just this?

ヽ(〃･ω･)ﾉ

Mikul

's paranoia and overall distrust of the claims is pretty clearly coming from a town mindset, I think. I doubt most scum would take a mason claim as their primary push target on day 1.

[jks]

It explains a lot of the motivations behind how Deimos27 entered the game and approached mastina and her claim before and after the audition. (As in, the play-by-play matches up to what happened in the game thread, with the exception of 776 which I don't really get.)

To be honest, I don't actually care about it much, except insofar as it slightly strengthened the town read I already had on Deimos27.

[jks]

For what it's worth, before mastina even claimed anything, I already figured she was in a neighbourhood and that her neighbourhood partner was Deimos27 and I thought she legitimately had reason to strongly town-read Deimos27 even if they weren't really masons - at least a strong enough reason in her own mind that she was convinced. The audition bonus thing explains the part I was missing here.

That plays a bit into why I think both mastina and Deimos27 are probably town, though independent of that I also think their individual play is more likely to come from town than scum.

[jks]

I replaced Battle Mage.

[jks]

The problem with Donkey Kong is that

he's an absolutely awful SSB character

you have to parse his posts for the actual meaning. But once you do, it's not

that

hard to see where his thoughts lie (albeit the "why" is missing). He's got a scum read on catboi, a town read on mastina and a town read on Mikul('s slot) and he

has

attempted to probe people in his own way (it's just not bearing any fruits at the moment, pun fully intended). The content is sparse, but it is there.

Why is he your strongest scum read at the moment?

[jks]

There's been no substance to a lot of people's reads. Donkey Kong isn't a special or unique snowflake in this regard. And I don't think a lack of substance behind reads is an indicator someone's scum (especially if they're doing a gimmick).

I don't personally think "fluff-posting" is a scum tell, unless they're doing it to mask a lack of content. Donkey Kong is doing it the other way around - masking the actual content with fluff-posting...

Could it come from scum? Yeah, sure. It's a gimmick and he probably decided to play like that regardless of his alignment. Is it coming from scum? I haven't seen anything that makes me think so yet.

It'd help his case if he were more forthcoming with why he thinks what he thinks, but you're basically advocating a policy lynch for a gimmick here.

[jks]

Actually, I just realised I am interpreting one of his reads incorrectly... I don't think he has a town read on Mikul - that might have been a town read on Battle Mage.

@Donkey Kong,

Can you talk a bit more about which people you believe deeply love the cult and which people you believe are just pretending?

[jks]

Feel free to vote me whenever, jks. Your vanity wagon's not happening. I've already said I'll self-hammer.

You've been throwing out votes essentially saying it's better them than you. Why were you acting defeatist here?

[jks]

OK, didn't realise we were this close to the deadline, thought it was still frozen.

ANIME SEIYUU-PICK EPISODE 1

Shiro

(3): Titus, Chemist1422, catboi

Panzerjager

(2): mastina(L), Tipsy

Donkey Kong

(2): JacksonVirgo, beeboy

Tipsy

(2): Panzerjager, MariaR

catboi

(1): Donkey Kong

JacksonVirgo

(1): jks

jks

(1): Shiro

mastina(L)

(1): Starbuck

13 players remaining, 7 to Vote Out.

DAY ENDS IN (expired on 2020-07-29 11:19:16)!

I think that's accurate.

I'll probably be around until the deadline.

I'd prefer not lynching any of the current (2) wagons today. I'm fine with a Shiro lynch.

(Also been pondering whether or not it's better to just no lynch over a deadline rush to vote someone. I don't actually think it would be that bad in this particular game, as much as I know people are going to disagree with this idea.)

[jks]

Vote: Shiro

[jks]

That actually sounds like a cool role, to be honest.

I don't really believe it but it would still be a cool concept.

[jks]

well then

jks why'd u pick this?

To burn it.

How do you explain his EoD play if not scum?

I don't think refusing to lynch a town read makes someone scum. Regardless of his actual alignment, I think that's something

he

thinks is correct. (I don't personally disagree with the notion, to be honest - if I felt strongly enough about a town read, I might do the same.)

I'm the town cop. I get results if I get targeted and not roleblocked.

Can you walk me through the logic of claiming third party who wants to be targeted?

Like I get that if you're telling the truth here, you want to be targeted, but it shouldn't have been difficult to figure out that no one was going to waste any sort of useful role on you (outside of maybe a rolecop? but I doubt one exists in this particular setup) after that claim.

[jks]

Oh. Battle Mage didn't fully claim the audition bonus stuff.

It's compulsive, if I don't choose it gets randomised, and each ability that gets chosen gets removed from the pool of bonus abilities.

I can't really think of a good reason to talk about what's left in the pool. Hated was the only real negative utility one though.

Also, if it weren't obvious, the abilities only last until the end of the night phase (so one day-night cycle). And they don't affect an individual's actual audition ability as far as I'm aware.

[jks]

if ur executed do the audition prizes go away?

yes obviously

Oh, also this is incorrect. I can see from the wording why Battle Mage might have thought this (it's along the lines of while I'm alive, I must do it...), but I clarified with the mod: it just gets randomised if I die.

(Ergo, burned it.)

[jks]

Vote: catboi

[jks]

I need to prod dodge for approximately 12 more hours, sorry. RL hitting hard.

[jks]

Because I couldn't think of a way to be targeted outside of like...you target me with stuff. So mostly I'm just dumb. Not sure what else you want me to say other thN "how do you get people to target you?"

Hm. I think I was mostly trying to understand why you did it that way because I was slightly paranoid about your current claim being basically the inverse of Starbuck's flip (with cop instead of vig) and I didn't really see a good reason for you deciding to claim that early in this day phase.

I'm not sure what answer I expected. I think I was just trying to understand how much thought you put into your role when you did what you did.

It was just something I was thinking about. I'm not particularly interested in pursuing it today anyway.

Also because Tipsy is scum and I'm not willing to vote outside of beeboy, tipsy catboi.

I could see these three as viable but I would rather put mastina in and drop out beeboy or catboi. In particular based on 1.3, I feel at least mastina or catboi is scum, given the number of not voting that are town.

Is 1.3 referring to 296? Why does that suggest one of mastina or catboi is scum?

[jks]

i also like catboi less coming out of yday. there was a specific post near the day end, when he told me to just vote him or something when he wasnt really in all that much danger anymore. felt pockety in retrospect.

Missed this when I last posted. This is actually part of why I'm thinking catboi's scum. He was saying something similar towards me at the end of yesterday and I don't really think it was coming from a genuine place. The combination of "just vote me, I'm fine with it" and survival votes didn't sit well.

I'll probably use some time soon to go back over catboi's posts and pull up some other things that looked off to me.

(Plus I think there's pretty strong associatives between him and Mikul-slot, but for whatever reason, nobody wants to vote for that slot.)

[jks]

I wasn't paying attention to the votes

but if I'd been voted, it would have at least brought scrutiny to the people pushing me for bad reasons.

If you thought it would bring attention to people voting you for bad reasons, then this should have continued over into this day phase? Why haven't you brought up or pursued this line of thinking today?

(Also, I don't believe the underlined part. You seemed hyper-aware of which wagons were viable and where the votes were.)

[jks]

I don't really trust Titus's claim - even if it's an audition ability and even if Starbuck was gated, two vigs in a 13p game is a lot. Plus I'm expecting most of the audition abilities to not be all that powerful or at least have some way of being gated based on other claims on the table and the flips, but Titus isn't claiming that.

I guess it's too late to voice this opinion now that the audition is over, but meh.

[jks]

Hm. Maybe Titus is scum with catboi actually.

If she really thought that one of mastina and catboi was scum for some reason, the logical conclusion after being told mastina is town would be that catboi is scum. Instead, it's just:

For instance, right now I could flip catboi but I would be doing it solely for the VCA. I don't like to policy here but I don't have a strong enough plausible SR either.

[jks]

I don't see any indication Aristophanes has started reading the game yet. How did you get a town read on him?

[jks]

¯\_▒ – ﹏ – ▒_/¯ I was aware of who other people were voting. I didn't realize for a while that the people voting me had moved off and was absolutely convinced that I was the only possible elimination that day. (it's also null because I would have truly believed I was likely to go down in those circumstances were I scum).

I don't really care to argue about whether you were or weren't conscious of the votes since it's not like I can prove it either way (though I don't really think it's null because I think you were pretty aware that you weren't in any danger for most of the end of D1).

The larger point I was trying to make here is that you said your wagon would provide information - this was why you were supposedly fine with being voted. This should have been true coming into this day phase from your perspective, i.e. nothing should have changed with regards to how your wagon was really informative from your point of view. But you haven't pursued that at all, which makes me think you never had any conviction about it and you were just saying things you thought would make you seem more likely town.

[jks]

You're still not understanding what I'm trying to say, which makes me think I'm right.

These were some of the things you were saying about your wagon yesterday:

Of the people voting me, I'd go Deimos > Donkey Kong > Titus for scum, although Maria is giving me weird feelings right now? But Deimos's content has been weak and hasn't improved since whenever I posted my last readlist. He should go and mastina should go for being a roadblock fakeclaiming masons with him.

I urge you to look very closely at the people voting me right now if that happens.

catboi (4): Donkey Kong, Deimos27, Titus, MariaR

There's mafia in this group. Don't let these people skate by, they need to be held accountable tomorrow. Deimos in particular has been trash and the townreads on him are really inexplicable. Titus is more "sujimichi was bad and she hasn't done anything town". DK is "don't know what he is and don't care, he needs to go"

I'll vote any of those names or mastina.

The Deimos27 read may have changed due to the mastina-Deimos27 relationship, but if you really believed anything you said here, from your perspective, if you're town, nothing should have changed.

If you're town and you thought this wagon was scum-infested (or at least contained scum? It's unclear to me how many you thought were on you), where did that suspicion go overnight? Or what changed that made you less sure about it today than you apparently were yesterday?

[jks]

I don't know if what I'm saying is unclear, so I'll try to keep it concise.

Yesterday, you seemed really sure that there was at least one or two (?) scum among the people voting you, but today you didn't bring it up again and you seemed to have forgotten you even thought that.

If you really thought that, what changed?

(I'm not talking about your wagon today, I am aware you've stated your scum->town reads on it.)

[jks]

No. You voted Titus a fair way into this day phase, you didn't start the day voting for her, so that's not true.

Yesterday your final will was basically: "look at the people voting me right now, there's scum there." You were apparently fine with leaving that as your dying message, essentially. Today, you forgot all about that and spoke about other things before eventually voting for Titus.

I don't believe you'd have suddenly forgot something you felt so strongly about yesterday.

[jks]

Also, looking back, you only voted for Titus after Tipsy brought up your end of day play yesterday. It took Tipsy reminding you for you to even remember that you felt strongly about people voting you.

[jks]

My read on deimos changed because chemist seemed better after replacing in and wasn't just riding one lazy shit read while doing nothing else, and the clarification on the role with the auction bonus made the claim more believable to me.

Also, if anything, this should have made you feel even more strongly about the other names if you really thought what you were saying towards the end of the day was true.

I think if you were town, you'd have started the day coming out swinging about the other names on your wagon yesterday IF you really were fine with the idea that your wagon was a good place to find scum. Instead you talked about Tipsy/Panzerjager and the audition stuff until Tipsy mentioned your end of day play and reminded you about that.

I think you forgot the stuff you were saying about your wagon yesterday because you never actually believed it. I think you were just doing the standard "there's scum voting me, look there guys!" routine without any actual conviction behind your belief.

[jks]

Sorry @mod, should have declared limited access over the weekend.

Catching up now.

[jks]

ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ I made one post in the day phase prior to that and I was still trying to get my head back into the game. My one post before that was saying I doubted panzer's claim when he was still claiming third party. This is a flagrant lie.

I mean, it was probably unfair of me to be slightly hyperbolic, but the fact you thought commenting on Panzerjager's role and the audition stuff was I guess more important than anything else in the game suggests you weren't thinking about it.

Or at the very least, it was less of a priority than speaking about those other things?

I dunno, maybe I'm reading it incorrectly, but that coupled with the "just vote me" stuff you were doing at the end of D1 didn't look genuine to me. Like yes, it was one post, but that still seems like something I'd be pretty adamant about opening the day with if I really thought it was true, especially over commenting about whether or not you believe Panzerjager's claim.

We're not lynching beeboy day 2 Especially with the plans we're setting up. Don't make me claim ty

If you actually have reason to think he's scum though, that's probably more important than whatever role you have, especially since you're softing pretty hard here anyway.

(I see mastina said something similar about this. Pretty much yeah, if you have a role reason to think he's scum, I'd rather do that today.)

Would shoot DK here tbh unless we get something useful out of that slot, which I doubt is happening

TBH, I've been liking Donkey Kong less and less with his recent posts. I *thought* he was still scum hunting in his own way even with the role play, but I haven't really been seeing any of that lately.

Still thinking the gimmick is a pretty silly thing to do as scum unless he just literally doesn't care about getting voted and is doing it for fun anyway?

[jks]

@Panzerjager, yeah, but in the beginning he looked like he was mixing reads into the role play. Now he's given up on that.

@beeboy, is there a reason you left my name out of your reads?

[jks]

Also not sure why you're trying to read into the Shiro flashwagon when it literally came down to who was online in the last few hours and what lynch we could make happen. Even if I think there's a decent chance catboi is scum, Shiro was never a counter-wagon to his.

Why did you say you needed Chemist's guidance with your reads?

[jks]

beeboy is town. catboi is town.

Can you talk about how you arrived at these two reads? (Or just which posts you read that you thought were town?)

Scum expected my lynch Day 2. When they couldn't get it but instead saw their pool dwindling down, they had to make a call to double down or just resign themselves to hoping town makes a mistake.

Why do you think scum were gunning for you specifically today?

And how does that make Panzerjager scum, when he wasn't even voting you? He's voting one of the people that actually did vote you and he's not even trying to get you lynched - he's just saying he thinks you're scum.

[jks]

@Panzerjager,

I don't think catboi was the leading wagon at the time. I think there were like 5 wagons at 2 votes each or something ridiculous like that. I may be misremembering.


@Creature,

Claims that I can remember are...

Chemist and mastina are neighbours. Chemist won the day one audition which gave him some information about mastina being town.

mastina is loved but she loses her loved status when she reaches L-2 or something (essentially means her loved status is only for show). She actually becomes loved when she wins the audition.

Panzerjager is a cop whose ability is unsuccessful unless he's targeted by a non-roleblocking role. His audition bonus makes him loved too.

catboi is an inventor of some sort (I don't remember the inventions, he claimed them somewhere).

Titus has claimed she becomes a vig after winning the audition (she won today's audition).

I get to choose the audition bonuses (separate from the audition ability each player has). Yesterday was a bulletproof modifier, today is a hated modifier. (There's a pool of abilities I have to choose from.)

That might be it for publicly available information at the moment unless I'm missing something else that was claimed?

I don't know if there's been any full claims yet, I think most of them are partial claims.

[jks]

Not going to bother engaging with jks at this point because he's clearly being disingenuous to try to wind me up.

I'm not trying to wind you up, though. I just think you're scum.

I don't really understand why you're acting like I'm trying to annoy you when I'm just pointing out issues I had with things you were saying not matching up to how I expected you to play if you really believed those things.

I didn't like your play at the end of D1 and I figured "OK, if he really believed what he was saying about being sure about scum being on his wagon, he'd continue driving the point home today" but you didn't really. Granted, you have voted Titus and Donkey Kong, but that came after Tipsy pressed you about your play at the end of D1 and also doesn't seem to have much to do with how they voted you yesterday.

What you said today was:

I don't know who I actually scumread now. Titus or DK I guess.

... which is in pretty stark contrast to the things you were saying yesterday about your wagon.

So either you changed your mind about the reasoning for voting you being bad or you didn't feel as strongly about it (I don't see any indication of this in your posts though before I brought it up) or you forgot about what you were saying at the end of yesterday because you didn't really believe it. And I'm currently thinking the last option is the case here.

Or am I misinterpreting that?

[jks]

I struggle to see how we have a cop, two ICs, and this amount of town killing.

We don't have two ICs. The mastina-Chemist relationship was just a happy coincidence that probably wouldn't have happened in 9 out of 10 iterations of this game. It probably shouldn't be factored into assumptions about game balance.

That said, there's still a fairly substantial amount of claimed/flipped power at the moment with the addition of MariaR's claim on the table.

Your claim is actually the one I trust least at the moment, actually, but I don't know if there's a point in talking about it today.

[jks]

Hmm.

@beeboy? Just a Y if yes.

[jks]

Actually never mind to the above.

We should probably mass claim today.

[jks]

(And preferably in the next 24-48 hours before the audition if we are going to do it.)

[jks]

You can't heal yourself...

[jks]

OK...?

Who did you watch/track and what result?

[jks]

Chemist gun had to be used that night or he died.

Does this include being blocked / the shot being protected against?

[jks]

It's more likely beeboy is bulletproof than that he was doctored if he's scum. I don't think scum doctor makes much sense in this setup even if you are town.

Did your shot have the same conditions as Chemist's?

[jks]

Also unless there's only two scum (which seems unlikely), today is mylo

[jks]

Who did you target N1 and what result, MariaR?

I can't see it in your ISO.

[jks]

Pretty good putting Titus/Mastina/Shiro/Beeboy in my townie pool.

Did this change before N1?

(And on a related note, you were scum reading beeboy D2. What changed between here and D2?)

[jks]

What is your claim? That you're vanilla outside of the audition power?

[jks]

Could people in their next post claim if anything they did last night would explain why Chemist's shot is missing? e.g. if you commuted or something, just say yes.

[jks]

If you are a scum with beeboy, shooting him wasn't going to make them think you're town. It was just going to make them think you were telling the truth about being a vig.

It's not like it's unheard of for scum to gambit like that.

Did your vig shot have the same conditions as Chemist's? (i.e. Did you have to use it or die?)

[jks]

If you are a scum with beeboy, shooting him wasn't going to make them think you're town. It was just going to make them think you were telling the truth about being a vig.

It's not like it's unheard of for scum to gambit like that.

This would require the shot to succeed for that gambit to have worth. The shot failed. Beeboy is alive. Thus no proof of the claim at all.

Correct. Which is why I'm thinking about possible explanations for what went down last night.

I do not believe Chemist would have held onto a vig shot even if the mod forgot to inform him of the death condition. It's possible I guess, or maybe for whatever reason he just forgot to submit a shot or something, but with the plan at the end if yesterday, I don't think he would have chosen to hold onto it.

I'm currently thinking either something stopped his target dying or you're lying about giving him the shot in the first place.

[jks]

If Chemist had a vig shot, he probably targeted Donkey Kong, especially after the way yesterday ended.

I have reason to believe Donkey Kong is more likely town than not and I can't really think of any reason scum would block Chemist's shot unless they thought he was going to shoot them, so...

Where did Chemist's shot go? And how did both he and mastina die?

This is what I'm currently thinking over.

(I don't want to rule out Chemist forgetting to submit a shot but really, unless Tatsuya made a huge mod error, I don't see that as at all likely.)

[jks]

It hasn't really been agreed upon. Though beeboy should probably start if we are doing it. And sooner rather than later.

[jks]

I don't have anything additional to claim.

@Aristophanes, could you at least verify whether or not you may have been responsible for blocking a shot from Chemist last night?

[jks]

Can you unvote until at least the audition is done?

If beeboy is scum, he's just going to quickhammer if he gets one more vote

HEAL: Aristophanes

[jks]

Who did you target N1/N2, Creature?

[jks]

Battlemage

Will you dance with me

I need a yes or no

And trust me you don't want to not answer

Ty!

Activate

Itl get spicey.

I'm a vanilla now basically, but you will find out tomorrow whether it's good or bad

So this was a reaction test from Mikul?

[jks]

Donkey Kong hasn't claimed but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that.

I think most other people have claimed their role / seiyuu? Phone posting and I don't really remember if people bothered claiming flavour when they claimed.

[jks]

Would shoot DK here tbh unless we get something useful out of that slot, which I doubt is happening

If Chemist had a gun, he was almost certainly shooting here, especially after the way D2 ended. (Also, mastina was in pretty much the same place as Chemist with regards to Donkey Kong.)

There's a number of reasons I could see scum role blocking a watcher/tracker N2 (including just the possibility that MariaR went rogue and watched/tracked someone else). But the only way scum ever interferes with Chemist's shot is if Donkey Kong is scum (and a role block isn't the only way it could have been prevented).

[jks]

In the event that the mod doesn't answer the above question directed at him, I'm going to assume the answer is "yes" since beeboy's role required him to "target" a player and required other players to target him for their actions to be redirected.

[jks]

are you going to explain what the reason you had to think DK was town was?

N2, someone (I'm guessing Aristophanes at this point) told me they have a cop inno on him.

(Though if Aristophanes denies sending me that, then I'm just going to disregard it.)

[jks]

Actually, I don't fully trust it at the moment even if it did come from Aristophanes, since if he's telling the truth, I'm trying to imagine what sort of power scum would have to counter-act town power in this game and investigation immunity seems like a pretty obvious one.

Donkey Kong should really claim today regardless.

[jks]

Wait, did you receive a message last night, Creature? (If so, I'm guessing it said something about Donkey Kong being town?)

At this point, I'm guessing it's Donkey Kong himself that's sending that.

[jks]

Hmm. It's probably just MariaR and Donkey Kong.

HURT: catboi

[jks]

Titus said she's a VT now. She doesn't have a vig shot.

[jks]

I still am concerned about the lack of explanation of chemist kill. Perhaps the simplest explanation is that chemist was roleblocked though.

Well, Chemist was going to shoot Donkey Kong (or at least strongly hinted at that). So if he was roleblocked, that just means Donkey Kong is probably the last scum anyway.

[jks]

Do you have access to the Tipsy/Donkey Kong PT, Aristophanes?

[jks]

Are mafia able to multitask?

If a player has multiple actions, they are allowed to use only one of them, unless specified. This does not include Factional Pick Outs and passive abilities.

[jks]

we don't know who chemist was shooting

Chemist said he was shooting Donkey Kong though. Like, explicitly said he was going to do it. And I highly doubt the end of D2 would have changed anything there.

So even if the remaining scum were able to block that shot, any non-Donkey Kong scum doesn't gain anything from blocking it, so I'm thinking mechanically it pretty much has to be Donkey Kong at this point. Or Titus is lying. Or outside chance of a mod error but I'm thinking Tatsuya would have owned up to that by now.

Donkey Kong being bulletproof makes more sense than anything else here though.

Unless I'm missing something else that can explain what happened N2?

[jks]

Which posts are you talking about with regards to MariaR / Titus?

[jks]

I guess I'll wait for the others but I'm trying to see what the world is with only 1 of beeboy/Titus scum.

If beeboy is scum and titus is town we had 3 ways of killing scum
If titus is scum and beeboy is town scum had a vig and no way of knowing about a cop/tracker that we're aware of.

Both of these seem pretty reachy

I guess this and the posts surrounding it?

It looks pretty non-committal to me and felt a bit like she was testing the waters for public opinion before doing anything with it. Kind of like trying to be on the right side of history if the cards fell that way but without actually pushing it strongly?

[jks]

There's pretty much nothing in any of the scum ISOs about Donkey Kong or TrueSoulEnergy. The names come up a couple times but that's about it. Panther and Fox mentioned him once in passing ("I am uncertain of his alignment so far, yet I sincerely hope that he is town") and beeboy voted him but switched to Shiro not that long after. It's pretty much a wash in terms of associations.

Reading MariaR's ISO makes me feel pretty good about catboi being town though. I don't think the way they were interacting together looks like scum-scum.

[jks]

Reading 1512 reminds me...

When beeboy bumbled his fake-claim, my first instinct was that it was actually planned. I think at the time it was between Titus and beeboy? I don't remember which way people were thinking of voting at the time (I think Titus maybe?), but then beeboy came out with a ridiculous fake-claim that ended up having nothing to do with his actual role and he somehow missed the fact that there'd only been two night phases so far. I remember briefly thinking overnight that he did that as a way to pave a path for victory for Titus since one of them was going down and at least him flipping would provide something for Titus to work off due to his role.

I should probably go back and read how that went down again.

[jks]

Oh right, now I remember. It was the fact that he was doing as little as he could in terms of associations that day. It was 5:3 at the time and if town was voted that day, it's highly likely we'd have lost then and there. But beeboy decided to make an extravagant fake-claim and seemed like he'd basically given up on the game (providing very little in the way of content, not trying to actively push Titus), despite scum being in a really good position if Titus is town. That's what made me think it was weird.

[jks]

Has Titus claimed what non-audition power she has? I can't find it anywhere if she has.

[jks]

Catboi answered your question in 1755.

Though to clarify my role, it was a compulsive night ability (pregame to N3) where I had to choose the audition bonuses for days 1-4 (e.g. the hated ability that you got D2). The pool of abilities was fixed, I just chose the order they appeared.

[jks]

Ari didn't "leave instructions" to me in our private room, he just mentioned you dying/staying alive would be telling for your alignment

Why did you target catboi with your role last night if you expected he would die?

[jks]

I'd like a letter, as I say DK. It would please me greatly!

Did Aristophanes tell you not to do this overnight, by the way? Because given his role, he was probably trying to confirm your flavour here.

[jks]

Spoiler: Spoilered for brevity

I would feel better about it if you were more accepting to the fact that it was obviously fake? Even then his reaction to such a thing looked really forced. If he did believe it I would be townreading your slot, but the way he reacted to it is the issue not if it was obvious or not.

、ヽ｀(~д~*)、ヽ｀ I mean, I can't tell you what was in his head. I just know I have a town role PM and so I have to assume his reaction was genuine. Why would I attempt to instead assume an interpretation where he, as town, faked his response to a reaction test and that's okay? That makes absolutely no sense. Like how could I argue "it was fake but I'm still town"? This is why I didn't

really

want to get into this because it's a narrative that's impossible for me to counterargue, but it's all people want to talk about with regard to me.

you have a town role pm so you're biased I get that. But not being able to see how this could be fake to others is still...odd? I don't really think you've done much to change my option overall. Consodering I don't know who you are most of your posts are...fair. But I don't really see anything that's super townie from them.

you have a town role pm so you're biased I get that. But not being able to see how this could be fake to others is still...odd? I don't really think you've done much to change my option overall. Consodering I don't know who you are most of your posts are...fair. But I don't really see anything that's super townie from them.

I acknowledge that

some

people might see it as fake, since that pretty much has to be the case. I think oftentimes people are far too uncharitable when it comes to things like dumbtells - they instantly assume something must be faked, because they can never imagine themselves doing something so absent-minded, but the reality is most of the time when someone has a nave reaction, it's legitimate and not something they faked. It should absolutely come back on the heads of people if I get voted out, they should not be allowed to make the excuse "wow wtf he seemed so fake".

And we played years ago on EM, you probably don't remember~ (I didn't either until I did a search)

The exchange above (starting with 829) is probably the strongest reason I think catboi is more likely town than scum. It looks more like scum trying to discredit a town player than scum theatre to me. (I think if Tuxedo Mask was scum with MariaR, the whole fake day vig thing would be a pretty easy reason to call her buddy town. I don't really think it makes a lot of sense to discredit that angle here. Especially considering how hard she railed against beeboy being wagoned D2, I think she probably would have taken that as an opportunity to try to derail the catboi wagon and call him town.)

There's a few other smaller exchanges they had in this game that make me think they're unlikely scum together too (for example, I think the tone in 1590 doesn't really look like scum talking to a buddy and I think catboi's posts about not trusting MariaR D1 for her attack on him seem genuine).

[jks]

Why does it even matter who I target last night anyway?

It doesn't matter now but it might have mattered if Aristophanes lived through the night. He was a flavour cop who received the flavour of anyone who targeted him after he won the audition, so it makes sense that he'd want you to target him to confirm whether or not you're just a mailman. That's why he asked you to do it on like three separate occasions yesterday.

Ergo, I was wondering whether you did it because of something that happened in your PT or you did it for some other reason.

[jks]

FYI Titus, unless you don't believe that I was actually controlling the audition bonuses, I'm technically cleared of performing any other actions up until N3. Choosing the audition bonus was listed as a mandatory night action in my animeography (Shunsui Kyouraku from Bleach).

[jks]

How would I prove that now that the auditions are over? lol

If anyone didn't believe I was the one controlling the audition bonuses, there were multiple ways I could have verified it in the first few day phases. My role has been public knowledge since D1.

[jks]

On rereading that rule, the "unless specified" part indicates that a player could potentially perform multiple actions at night if their role allowed it. I doubt Creature is lying about being able to use multiple actions, regardless of his alignment.

In particular, clearing Catboi because he gave a boon to scum feels dirty and wrong.

Nobody is doing this though? I think catboi is probably town due to interactions with MariaR. I don't think they looked like scum-scum interactions.

Then jks feels like he's just on the sidelines.

*shrug* I've said this before, but I'm limited access most weekends.

[jks]

Donkey Kong, at what point during (or after?) your argument with catboi did you start town reading him?

[jks]

Why do you think I'm scum? Is that a POE read or do you actually think I've done something that looks scummy?

[jks]

I still think one of {Titus, Donkey Kong} makes the most sense as scum here.

There was no reason for anyone outside of them to block Chemist night two when he'd clearly stated he was going to shoot Donkey Kong, so the most likely scenario is either Donkey Kong was shot and it didn't go through (either because he's bulletproof or because he blocked it or something like that) or Titus never gave Chemist a gun in the first place.

I guess there's some other possibility I'm not considering here as for why there wasn't a third shot night two, which is why I've been going back and looking through interactions, but there's virtually nothing in the way of interactions towards Donkey Kong or Creature. catboi I still think looks town from MariaR interactions. I don't think Titus looks good from MariaR interactions. beeboy didn't really interact with anyone in any meaningful way IMO and neither did his predecessor. I guess there's slight town points for the Mikul-slot via ThirteenthJT but nothing concrete.

Why do you think Donkey Kong and Titus are town, Creature?

[jks]

Would shoot DK here tbh unless we get something useful out of that slot, which I doubt is happening

I just realised I misinterpreted this since he was talking about who he wanted

you

to shoot since you were being leashed. This was before it was decided that you'd shoot beeboy (he wanted to get rid of beeboy D2).

So I guess it's not guaranteed that he would shoot there.

I still think if he had a gun, it's probably a reasonable assumption that he'd shoot there over anyone else still alive though? Especially if he was discussing it with mastina (since mastina had Donkey Kong as one of the people she most wanted dead).

[jks]

If I were a scum roleblocker who had a reasonable idea of where the vig would be shooting, I'd let them wreak havoc and use it on someone that was potentially a threat. Unnecessarily blocking a vig that is almost certainly shooting a town player doesn't make much sense.

I guess you'd have to argue that if Donkey Kong isn't the remaining scum, then one of {catboi / me / creature} feared being shot (since beeboy was obviously safe and MariaR had claimed the watcher stuff).

Do you think anyone in those names thought they'd be shot over Donkey Kong?

[jks]

Mastina's last thoughts before the day ended were that there catboi was town, I was town, Creature was town and he wanted Panzer and Donkey Kong dead.

Chemist didn't really update reads after talking about wanting a Donkey Kong vig (albeit from you, not his own shot).

I guess it's possible someone got paranoid but the more likely scenario is Chemist was just going to shoot Donkey Kong.

[jks]

I'm not talking about sheeping her, I'm saying if they were discussing the shot together (like, to agree on who to shoot), mastina's last reads are probably relevant if scum were trying to figure out where the shot was going to go.

[jks]

doesn't it make sense for any cautious scum not cleared by Chemist to block the shot?

(Essentially in response to this.)

I guess it's possible scum were just super-cautious regardless but I mean... I think it's pretty obvious he was going to shoot Donkey Kong if he had a gun. And I think scum would have probably thought this too.

[jks]

I was looking at the timestamps and realised that what he said was several days before the actual end of day, so I went back to check what was happening around it and noticed it was in response to something.

[jks]

(The first time I read it, I just noticed it was 6 posts from the end of day and didn't put into perspective the time gap.)

[jks]

Wait, are you actually suggesting you think there's scum motivation in missing the context behind that post when looking at it in isolation?

[jks]

Do you have a town read on Creature, catboi? If so, how confident?

[jks]

I don't think catboi makes much sense as scum with MariaR. Have you looked at their interactions?

[jks]

Creature, I don't think you ever answered. Do you think something I've done is actually scummy or are you just saying you think everyone else is town?

[jks]

Where does your town read on Donkey Kong come from?

[jks]

Nothing from the VCs excludes them as partners.

I'm not really talking about VCs, just their general interactions. Have you read through any scum ISOs or looked at how they interacted with others?

[jks]

Role makes more sense as town
Donkey getting into a fight with catboi
TSE looking too demotivated to be scum
General carelessness from Donkey Kong

Which of those did you think was "wtftowny"?

[jks]

Eh, TrueSoulEnergy looks pretty null. A couple reads but no real explanation or followup.

As far as being demotivated goes, virtually the entire game replaced out. Most of the game was demotivated D1. Why do you think TrueSoulEnergy's lack of motivation is town?

[jks]

General carelessness from Donkey Kong

What's this referring to?

[jks]

I think it's just Donkey Kong.

I don't really think the '1v1' with catboi makes him seem town. In fact, the only times he's really been active in this game are towards the end of yesterday (when people started suspecting him) and the start of today (when people started suspecting him). When he's not in the limelight, he just fades into the background; he's not trying to game solve and he isn't trying to find scum.

I don't think any of Creature's points have much weight. I don't really think Titus's point about scum voting together has much weight either. The one time beeboy voted Donkey Kong was towards the end of D1 and the vote was quickly replaced with a Shiro vote. MariaR didn't really interact with him at all until she was pretty much confirmed scum.

And assuming Titus is town, I still think Donkey Kong was the only one with any incentive to block the shot from Chemist.

He just seems like the most likely person to be scum here.

Vote: Donkey Kong

[jks]

By the way, when I was going back and looking at how D3 played out, it occurred to me that I'm near confirmed town just due to my role and what happened N2.

D3 was when I picked double-voter.

D3 was 5:3 after the double-kill N2, but if Donkey Kong were town and the shot on him wasn't blocked, it would have been 4:3 with a double-voter up for grabs that day, which could have potentially been a scum auto-win. Essentially there's no world in which it makes sense for me to be scum who blocks the missing shot there. Scum were clearly not aware of what audition bonus I was giving out that day if the shot was blocked.

(Ironically, I chose to use double-voter that day because I wanted to burn it before it reached a lylo scenario...)

[jks]

:/

What did you want to ask me, catboi?

[jks]

I thought I'd given my flavour at some point. Shunsui Kyouraku from Bleach.

[jks]

sure jks townreads me but creature was insistent it was jks, optimally i get them both going after each other and use your death to insist that one of them must be the roleblocker

Ironically, I figured if I lived through this night phase, the most likely reason would be one of you or Creature killing Titus to shake up the game state. I figured Creature would probably need to do that since he was calling Titus town and Titus was calling him scum, and if I were wrong about you, you'd do it to stir conflict between Creature and I.

I thoroughly dislike being put in situations like this. Current plan is to go back through interactions.

[jks]

If you did I didn't remember it. Was just trying to check really fast. Why's he managing the auction prizes?

No idea. I watched the Bleach anime up until like the end of the first arc. I don't really know who my character is.

[jks]

I've just been using beeboy as a frame of reference, which is why I thought your interactions with her didn't look at all similar.

[jks]

Oh. Apparently the flavour is in my character's "shikai" ability.

"The power of Katen Kyōkotsu is to "make children's games real". The Zanpakutō makes the rules, and anyone who steps within the boundaries of its spiritual pressure is forced to play by those rules, including Shunsui himself."

[jks]

Do you normally rely heavily on VCA, Titus? And do you put more stock in VCA over interaction analysis?

[jks]

Have you read through scum ISOs or looked at what scum was saying about people this game?

I'll be around in a couple hours to start doing the reading I said I'd do. Got busy with work this week.

[jks]

Spoiler:

Hey Holden you wanna tell us how you got Tux town from your little interaction test with him? Because I got the exact opposite pings. To me that seemed like a very obvious reaction test. Maybe it looked more convincing at the time of it, but it's very doubtful. The entire post after like he was really gonna die just felt forced and perhaps a bit staged. I'll wait to hear what Holden has to say on this though!
VOTE: Tux

Tuxedo Mask was the scumread we both agreed on, I heavily disliked the way he approached his question Holden. It seems quite clear that it was a reaction test, and he never posted a response to Holden's answer until he was later called out on this post. I also don't think the dayvig test Holden used on him was likely to work, as the odds of Holden actually daykilling a player so early into the game was close to zero. I found his mastina vote underwhelming as well, so I'd be interested to see how he reacts to mastina's latest posts.

As for Tuxedo mask, they are playing really confident. Those are the vibes I have from them. Jokes around a lot early on and very abious LAMIST attempts. Even they feel like it's an attempt to make a joke. Also obvious Buddying with Golden. And then post 223.... Playing the too scummy to be scum card hard.

Right now I see Tuxedo as far more scummy than Mastina.

Catboi I have literally 0 intel on, but I usually like to assume wagons are bad when I enter games :^).

Maybe it's just Titus.

Dude feels very fluffy and I won't lynch the 3p Panzer or Catboi.
I guess I'd lynch TItus her movement this game feels off.

I am disengaged and scum read Titus.
What to do.

Sorry Mafia just isn't vibing with me right now.

I think Titus is playing _like_ scum but the vig claim mostly self resolves anyway.
Do we know why she is apparently a vig but we only saw 1 kill day 1?

So while some team comp of like {MariaR, Tipsy, DK, Catboi} makes sense to me. I just am not feeling it cause wolves aren't actually motivated to push anyone.
So I can say for sure we have more then 1 wolf on Shiro even if he had almost no competition.

Catboi to some degree was a counter wagon to Shiro which is why I am hard pressed to trust him I guess.

VOTE: Titus

I am not losing this game to this garbage plan.
tyvm

VOTE: Titus

I think this is just the clear choice even if I am incredibly bias.
We have the claimed vig, a vig that is now flipped town.
And 2 shots town wouldn't reasonably ever have been shot by Chemist.


Titus just shot one of Chemist or Mastina and that's kind of just that.

Has Titus full claimed yet?

idc anymore if everyone is complacent with losing.

read Shiro's role pm for my actor abilities.
I have a 3-shot roleblock that can only block the factional kill.

I went.
Ari/Tipsy] -> Donkey Kong -> Titus

Just posting these for my own reference to go back through later so I don't have to keep opening their individual ISOs.

[jks]

Spoiler: MariaR

Beeboy...no.

I think we're missing the point where if we keep engaging with the wall of noise you'll keep getting it when other factors are of more importance. Do people townread catboi/like there recent posting? Has it impressed them enough to deal with the early game of Tux that was (imo) the worst in the game?

The only slots I see real reason to want to vote are Panzer/Cat/jk. Could argue for Tipsy but that's not gonna happen with my levels of effort to be honest.

VOTE: catboi

As for leashing? Catboi/Tipsy. If Panzer is town I can't trust my own role so I really want to flip him but a cop is a cop

VOTE: Tipsy for now though

like in a hypothetical scenario where we eliminate aristophanes and he flips town are people going to re-evaluate me or just keep clinging to the same lazy reads

Until you give better reasons for who scum is then I'll stick to my lazy reads <3

i'm not convinced you're reading the game at all so why bother

Okay but, I'm not the only player in this game that you need to convince.

Glad you agree so you won't feel bad if I do
VOTE: Catboi

this right?

Well this is a pleasant surprise Panther. Nice to see you. Please give Fox my well wishes, whomever they are.

I'll do just that. Thanks Titus. It was a shame I couldn't scream in glee when I saw you. It was also making me pull my hair out having to pretend I had no idea that Mastina fakes mason claims every other game.

Oh yeah. Mastina's done that again. Ok.

Since Fox isn't here, can you give me a general rundown of your viewpoints and his/her last ones?

-Fox was scumreading Battlemage the most out of everyone in the playerlist earlygame/when they were done catching up.
-They wanted Panzer dead first though because it's a 3p and we have no idea if they're telling the truth.

We agreed with townreads on Deimos and Mikul and that's really all Fox had.

I myself think Cat boi is scum and Shiro is town have not read a single DK or much of Tipsys posts.
pedit: No, no I couldn't because that's giving me information in a game that I am apart of.

Pretty good putting Titus/Mastina/Shiro/Beeboy in my townie pool.

Don't see why Titus goes head to head with Mastina here as scum.

Thoughts on beeboy?

I kinda feel like scum are demotivated because they realized I am unlynchable today.

As I said before, beeboy could be scum and I would expect him to be but his death makes me a VT and with my role I don't wanna be VT atm

Okay so, I'm in a pt with beeboy/Shiro

My role is a tracker+watcher combo. I watch/track my combo but my results must be posted in that pt. If they both die I lose my powers. There's also something else that makes no sense in claiming.

If beeboy dies at night, do you get your results in the PT that night?

If so, you could track and watch me. That would prevent scum from roleblocking me. You might also watch chemist.

Yeah I still get my results if beeboy dies at night

Ok, I gave Chemist a gun. He needs to be watched actually. This is regardless of who I am leashed to. Chemist needs to be protected. I had to make a choice between him and mastina. Since mastina has floated shooting me, I picked Chemist.

This is why I said Creature's calculations are off. He wasn't factoring in another town killing.

I would have held off but I don't think I am living longer.

Will do.

I just wanna confirm something really quick.
@Titus you shot beeboy and you're sure chemist got a gun correct?

Who did you target N1 and what result, MariaR?

I can't see it in your ISO.

Titus with no visit or action.

I can see a world with Titus/Beeboy with Titus not wanting me to track her but if that was the case scum already knew I tracked Titus n1 so I wouldn't be able to do it again.

People who normally aren't that talked about in the middle ground are people who normally do things like night kills or actions that would get you caught. So I figured Titus was a good bet.

I was roleblocked Titus don't know what else to tell you. Roleblocker some kind of rolestopper I don't know. But at the moment the most logical scum team to me is you+beeboy

I guess I'll wait for the others but I'm trying to see what the world is with only 1 of beeboy/Titus scum.

If beeboy is scum and titus is town we had 3 ways of killing scum
If titus is scum and beeboy is town scum had a vig and no way of knowing about a cop/tracker that we're aware of.

Both of these seem pretty reachy

Titus if I was scum all I'd do is guilty you and then win off the ml. Sadly I'm town so this game isn't as easy.

[jks]

OK.

I've been thinking over interactions and thinking about what happened night two and I keep coming back to the conclusion this game only really makes sense if Titus is scum.

MariaR's interactions with catboi aren't

as

strong as I initially thought they were but they still don't really look like scum-scum interactions.

On the other hand, I don't really get the impression that Titus was ever a serious thought for either of the flipped scum, as much as they mentioned her. Especially D2, beeboy's reaction to the vig plan just looks incredibly fake.

And I still can't think of a valid reason why catboi would have blocked Titus N2 over just letting that shot go through and being one step closer to endgame.

I'm not really sure any amount of reading is going to change how I think about this so I'm not going to delay it any longer.

Vote: Titus

[jks]

Sorry about not hammering instantly. I tend to play cautiously around potential vengeful shots when it gets that late in the game and it's role madness (covered this a bit in the scum PT, not sure if that's been made public yet).

[jks]

I do agree scum had too many powerful abilities vs town's gated abilities, but I don't know if it was necessarily imbalanced so much as very swingy. For example, a D1 scum flip from any scum player (but especially beeboy or myself) would have probably tilted this heavily in favour of town (unlike in a less power-heavy game where a single instance of scum dying isn't as damaging).

It's hard to properly balance role madness games since they're always going to be incredibly swingy and may seem imbalanced as a result, even if they aren't.

Some roles seemed like they could have been made a little stronger though (e.g. Shiro's investigative ability was practically useless in this game, for as long as beeboy was alive at least).