Open 791 | Forest Fire | Game Over

[tea leaves]

Is that Pandora, Loki, or Miso? They look very surprised at your question.

[tea leaves]

Am I supposed to think Isis is town now because the cat pics are being posted in-thread instead of the scum PT? HmM

[Isis]

Morning Tweet get in here and tell him he had better be as cognizant as you are that scum don't have daytalk!!!111

[Isis]

It's Loki because you can see the little patch of white on his chest, Pandora doesn't have that

[Bell]

Did I misread mena?

[Bell]

i've come out of the last page or two townreading clidd + menalque. mt to a lesser degree but still in my townreads. i think that the back and forth between the former was maneuvered in a way that settled some of the weird feelings i had towards the line of question from mena, of which mt voiced. also this is because i am tired and only really looking over the last few pages now. :>

i liked gamma's opening (it made me feel special... and also it was super bold) and i don't remember anything about farren right now or much of the others right now but that is an issue for after i sleep.

while it's hypocritical to say that like... activity =/= alignment it does feel like the towniest people right now are the people posting the most right now?

i think that morning tweet is town!

the reason for that townread in particular is that i think her open-mindedness this game thus far feels townier than not? like, i don't think she's hedging when she says she doesn't know something and isn't looking for someone to supply her the answers so much as wanting to collaborate with everyone if that makes sense?

^this is a good question, I didn't mind tea's comments on it in the catchup but repeating it in 370 doesn't really feel like a meaningful or useful push

also @Dunn, the main thing that stood out to me re:Ydrasse was she came in and answered a question about MT, gave justification for it that suggests she's current with the game, but didn't share any thoughts on Clidd, the main wagon and the person she's voting.

i haven't moved my vote since i arrived in this game so that point is moot imo. i explained already why the cliddslot was my choice.

i also think that implying that i'm not trying to solve is unfair, because i am trying to sort people! i'm not being stingy with my reads but i simply didn't have the energy nor time to sit down and properly wrangle anything to do with this game; it was easy to answer the question directed at me because i already had a read on mt from conversation prior.

now though, i am actually going to give my thoughts and try to see if the tentative poe i was toying around with makes any sense. :>

i like farren quite a bit. :> am adding him to my townpile.

@Guilty, i'll add this on to my other question in 232, who were you referring to as the "more active posters" when you said one is very likely to be scum?

yeah I was just about to address this when I saw your latest post

I think you're seeing that comment as something meant to vaguely shade slots like Mena without doing so by name, but my intent was more to push clidd on what I saw as a really reachy assertion about scumreads. I can see how I maybe got slightly carried away making my point in the abstract with the 'foothold' comment rather than focusing on specific players here, probably because I don't have a solid grip on how I feel about the game myself. It doesn't feel like anyone has really pushed to do anything yet

piggybacking off of this to say that i agree wrt to the state of the game; it feels that only in the last few pages have people really started to try and push harder to form wagons and talk things out;

^ to the last post too: i feel that farren's energy throughout the game so far though has sort of strayed away from the... laziness??? not laziness but low-key energy fmpov and been more proactive without it becoming more of a driving force in a Bad Way. it's more probing to figure out how people are gonna reply and i am a fan of that.

my townread on clidd was mainly based on the way that he maneuvered that discussion about meta with mena; i thought that the resolution it came to was Pleasant which boded well? it felt like a good discussion that didn't end up with anyone coming out of it like... looking bad.

my qualms with your case against him are sort of nitpicky i think.

p-edit: why is it scum indicative?

i think this is probably a self-centered view regarding guiltylion because he voted me, but it feels as if he's hyperfocused on a few small things that are at odds with being as cognizant of the game state as he is?

i talked myself into this actually

VOTE: guiltylion

will not be around to Properly talk/etc but @tea, what about guilty feels off to you? i remember your slot's predecessor saying the exact same thing and i'm wondering if you can verbalize it a bit better?

i think this is probably a self-centered view regarding guiltylion because he voted me, but it feels as if he's hyperfocused on a few small things that are at odds with being as cognizant of the game state as he is?

like, i guess it seems like a macro assessment of things (that i agreed with, no one pushing anything with vengeance) that zooms in onto me for reasons that don't hold much weight fmpov (the vote and me not trying to find the baddies) which seems... contradictory? in how to view the game as a whole.

how am I not being cognizant of the game state?

like from my view - I'm re-evaluating clidd slot and pressuring a slot that has been voting him the whole game yet not seemingly updating that read based on the content he's given. That leads me to decide to vote/pressure you. Why can you not imagine this coming from a town!GL perspective?

going back to this b4 i visit the Tea Points but i was saying you WERE cognizant of it, which was why the zoom in felt... jarring i guess? but like i said that is by virtue of it being on me i think. also again i think that the voting point is kinda pointless because... clidd was my rvs vote and not something i was actively pushing. i consider you to be my first i guess meaningful vote?

i can see it coming from a town perspective but admittedly i don't feel like... bad for voting you either/leaving it? i had other townreads which you weren't living up to personally. i am curious to see who else you have in your poe currently though because we seem to agree on the progression of things thus far.

also, what do you think of tea's points against you? (i'm about to respond to them but i wanna know your take.)

@tea: i'm unsure if i'm biased or not in this tbh because i townread your slot's predecessor by virtue of the things that guiltylion is calling clidd/your slot out for. the main points about it that really stick with me are guiltylion coming in strong with the vote on clidd in 210 and the very last point in 221 where guilty hadn't asked why clidd had that poe.

the former point, though... do you think it makes sense for a town!gl to see that the game is kind of slow-moving and take it upon himself to try and start something or not? he does say he got carried away but i'm unsure if that's him backing down from something after people challenge it. s:

if not, i think that a scum!gl might see that quite a few people are being towny and exchanging trs with each other and want to try and disrupt/challenge that?

also as an addendum for my previous post @gl: i wanna clarify, was there any reason why you didn't ask clidd about his reads in more depth?

like "tea, give your reasons on why Guilty may be scum"

"Guilty, what do you think of tea's reasons"

If this is somehow influencing Ydrasse's reads on either of us, I haven't seen it yet

because i'm not announcing every change in my reads.

but i do find it helpful to see what you guys mutually think of one another. :> i'm not framing you as against tea leaves so much as just trying to see what thoughts you have on each other's slots. i'm not acting like, with complete sureness in my scumreads right now so much as having a few townreads i'm working with and going from there.

Those positions make sense for Dunnstral and Pine.

I do not understand your townread on Gamma Emerald. I liked 70 and 77. You initially mentioned your read of Gamma in 99; I can see a townread at that point. Has anything since then influenced it?

Farren asks a weird question over here because he's asking about this townread saying he doesn't understand it despite saying he liked and agreed with mentions of it precious.

GuiltyLion posts recently looked better to me so now I'll go for Dunnstral or Farren. To make things interesting I'll vote Farren.
VOTE: Farren

...why?

like, between the two of those why wouldn't you join a wagon on dunn? i don't understand what interesting means or what it's supposed to accomplish right now.

...oh.

tea? say it ain't so?

*raises eyebrow*

tea, can you tell me which posts made you start scumreading farren more than dunn? is it because of 550?

do you know how in the sims when you say something and you see the little negative sign come up and you lose relationship points with the other sim? that was what that vote was for me.

[Bell]

I don’t think it’s guiltylion.

[Isis]

If you read mena wrong there is solidarity cause I thought I was probably repping into a scumslot.

I don't remember how you read him and dunno if you're saying you're thinking I'm town or thinking I'm scum, though.

[Bell]

I thought mena was town due to meta interactions with Clidd.

[Bell]

Isis, why did you mention game balance this day phase?

[Isis]

If we had 3 chops left that'd be pretty broken for town. Someone later corrected my logic in how the available chops are reduced to 2 if the mafia use gasoline an additional night before igniting.

I don't know what you mean by "why" it's just like something I'm interested in. I don't think it furthers my wincon directly to talk about the game balance (it can but not in the way I was doing it) but not everything I do exactly furthers my wincon, like playing Tic Tac Toe with scum etc

[tea leaves]

Why did you take the slot if you thought it was scum though

[Isis]

FTR I'm still not convinced this setup is fair to scum, EVwise it seems pretty similar to other setups but since dousing a stump in gasoline is such an absurd play and doing multiple ignites is an absurd play it's basically a nightless setup. And towns have been stomping scum in nightless setups in the current meta with EVs as low as like 32%. At a bare minimum this is closer to balanced if the Firefighter is a named townie rather than an actual power role but removing it entirely probably isn't overkill
pedit: What an excellent question! I PMed Dannflor "/in to replace" on like page 8 cause the playerlist looked good. Then when Menalque got banned Dannflor asked me if I was still in and I skimmed Mena's iso and was like yikes but felt like it would be pretty jerk to not take the slot over alignment preferences if Dannflor was halting his other replacement search to ask me for the rep I suggested I was interested in.

I'm not sure if I would rep into something that looked like an obvscum slot with a playerlist that seemed really really good, or not, that situation hasn't come up yet
In Wolf Dance specifically I was super adamant about not repping into a scum slot because FakeGod dance is the most townsided setup 5ever.

[Morning Tweet]

On day 1, Ydrasse had to vote for the second largest wagon, tea leaves, out of survivalism. They could not have had high hopes during the night phase considering they were the 2nd and 3rd most popular wagons the previous day.

Pushing guilty and then falling back into a bus if they have to sounds just abt right to me. I think after the naked X-1, tea (and this would apply to Isis too sure) made a judgment call to abandon ship

Ydrasse has to bus her scum partner out of survivalism? Think about what you just said there.

For Ydrasse and I to be scum we've both voted each in day phases where the vote made us the leading wagon and was basically the "intent to kill" vote. On D1, there were other viable wagons, Ydrasse doesn't have to bus there. I certainly wouldn't want to be bussed in that situation, and I don't think Ydrasse is the type of player who would want to either.

On D2, Ydrasse was on 2 votes and GuiltyLion was on 4 when I pivoted to Ydrasse. Once again that's the big vote which largely affects who's getting launched. You say Ydrasse had just done her scummy L-1 votex but you forget that you were infact defending this vote and suggesting in places it could be "too scummy to be scum".

Hold on let me pull it up

Spoiler: The aftermath of Dunn's claim (warning BIG quote wall)

Hi, I'm the firefighter. Let's eliminate Ydrasse

VOTE: Ydrasse

Let's get Ydrasse.
If her ghost haunts me,
well, I'll deserve it.

I suppose I find it pretty unusual Ydrasse hasn't devoted any time to fighting to stay alive (either by defending herself, or more likely, by creating/pushing someone else with a lengthy case).

She usually has many large solvey posts, and my theory on it was that she feels under pressure to play when she thinks her death will result in a loss to her team. She doesn't have a single one of these posts so far this game

But that's not really an end-all reason to know she's town, it is possible any number of circumstances cause her to play differently, ig it's just my somewhat educated guess

And then on the other side there's tea leaves who I also don't really think is scum. But it's not my turn to choose! I already picked wrong unless GL has a surprise for us

this is on the presumption that dunn is uncc'd + if it is and i'm asleep everyone can strongarm an elim on him through regardless

VOTE: guiltylion

town dunn makes me feel better about tea + that vote a while back. my working brain completely brushed over the fact gl had said that thing about me + dunn. i don't like how he was ready to switch to me at any point were the signs there and then didn't really do much about it when i joined a wagon that he was also on. even if he thinks that we don't make sense together i'd think that someone would be a little more worried about their Strongest (?) scumread hopping on with them.

p-edit: ya that's fine with me

What do you guys think of Gamma,
If, hypothetically I waffled.

i already posted where gamma rested in my reads but he was the lightest of my trs

meh, it's more like my read on tea rested a lot on that vote which implicitly defended dunn, but given that he's most likely FF i can more feasibly believe that tea's vote really was to just create pressure in multiple places.

listen to your heart

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

I'm not the firefighter

VOTE: Ydrasse

VOTE: Ydrasse
If I'm wrong I'll probably get executed at some point but I think this is a the right choice

VOTE: tea leaves

What Bell said last night - tea leaves' response to Ydrasse's pressure was nervous.

VOTE: tea leaves

VOTECOUNT 1.7

Burned Out

[3] Ydrasse :

Bell, GuiltyLion, Gamma Emerald

[2] tea leaves :

Farren, Isis

[1] Gamma Emerald :

Dunnstral

[1] Dunnstral :

tea leaves

[1] GuiltyLion :

Ydrasse

[1] Not Voting :

Morning Tweet

With 9 in play, it takes 5 votes to exile.

The Day 1 deadline is in: (expired on 2020-08-28 01:03:10)

ugh

VOTE: tea leaves

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

VOTE: Gamma

I'd heavily prefer Gamma over Ydrasse too. Join us, Ydrasse!!!

VOTE: gamma

VOTE: tea leaves
There’s stronger reason imo for Ydrasse to be scum but I’m not gonna let myself get eliminated with how things are going down rn

VOTECOUNT 1.8

Flares

[4] Gamma Emerald :

Dunnstral, Bell, tea leaves, Isis

[3] tea leaves :

Farren, Ydrasse, Gamma Emerald

[1] Ydrasse :

GuiltyLion

[1] Not Voting :

Morning Tweet

With 9 in play, it takes 5 votes to exile.

The Day 1 deadline is in: (expired on 2020-08-28 01:03:10)

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Survivalism isn't exactly what i mean

Ydrasse had intent to kill Dunn, then intent to kill Guilty after the claim. She only had intent to kill tea after that devastating VC where tea and her were the top wagons. Survivalism -- more like, point of no return? Not sure what to call it. The part where it seemed like she was going to die or tea was going to die.

Would you try to start up the Gamma wagon in that situation after Bell says "ehhhh maybe I'll flipflop"? No, you'd probably vote your partner and pray that either the distancing you get is huge OR hope that someone comes in with a deus ex machina and flashwagons Gamma for you. Remember, Ydrasse has at least 3-4 people adamantly wanting her dead, and tea has at least Isis but also probably Gamma who are vocal in their scumreads.

Ydrasse had just spent a post justifying her Guilty vote by explaining that she doesn't think tea is scummy anymore, so the reversal onto tea is really awkward here. I will admit i'd kind of want a double bus to be way more convincing than this, but I do think it would have been strange if she did a huge 180 from "Yeah I don't think that thing from tea is scummy anymore" to "KILL TEA NOW". So she ends up with a sort of awkward "Ugh okay I'll vote tea"

Tea never had intent to kill Ydrasse at any point during this period as far as I can tell. They actually go a little overboard defending her with a "I heavily prefer Gamma over Ydrasse. Join us Ydrasse!" post which does sort of town ping but I don't think we're exciting tea's scumrange.

so i don't think it's true Ydrasse ever voted you with intent to kill, EXCEPT when the thread reached a point where either she or you were gonna die. Before that happened, she clearly wanted Dunn and Guilty dead.

-

Now as for you on Ydrasse. You never had intent to kill her day 1 unless im seriously missing it. On day 2, you certainly did once she placed the 4th vote on GL. Now -- even though you switched to Ydrasse, you never gave up the idea of GL being scum, even now you think GL may be scum with her. In essence you're getting the best of both worlds, you're distancing Ydrasse and keeping GL in the conversation.

Had you stayed on GL and gotten him killed, well, Ydrasse is coming next. So she dies next and everybody's thinking "Who doesn't have clearing interactions with Ydrasse?" You wouldn't have any if it weren't for that X-1 switch you did to her. This isn't a terrible outcome because at least you just need one miselim to win, although I'd imagine it'd be somewhat tough

Had you stayed on GL and some others had switched to Ydrasse before you, leaving you either on GL or as the hammer on Ydrasse, you're now down a partner and don't have clearing interactions with Ydrasse, you're going to lose. You're risking this happening if you don't vote her. It's a huge gamble to try and finish off GL because Ydrasse IS next.

And finally, by switching to Ydrasse (while keeping GL in your pool of suspects even now), you can grab cred for bussing Ydrasse seemingly very early when she was going to die anyway, AND you don't lose the opportunity to kill GL, or at least that's the idea.

-

...i really need to read into some other players sometime. maybe finish my english essay too

I think that in a vacuum your interactions are not terrible. However, that applies to literally every player except Isis and myself. I do not think it is Isis. I struggle to find super strong clearing interactions whereas for GL i'd be very surprised if it's him. Bell I really strongly think is town. There's.. who is there.. just Farren left out of everyone then?

[Morning Tweet]

Reason being scum!Morning takes great care in what she writes. I think scum!her sees how that can be interpreted as a scumslip (I am evolving if you are town because I am scum this game and half town-slipped) while town!her writes whatever.

i think to a large extent I feel like the burden is on the reader to read someone correctly (for the most part -- the readed player still needs to provide adequate content, but you get the idea), so as town I make almost no alterations to what i say in order to appear less scummy even if something looks off or could be interpreted as a scumslip

In the case of that post I was like "Yeah.. this could be misinterpreted... but if someone calls it out as a scumslip I'm just going to roll my eyes and carry on."

maybe i'm wrong and you should craft posts more carefully as town too, you owe that to your faction or something. I feel like stream of consciousness is the best way to show I'm town

[Morning Tweet]

Yeah, I don’t think it’s tealeaves. Enough where i’m Gunna put him out of the running. I’m probably not going to vote him this game

enlighten me pls (人・ω・)

[Morning Tweet]

Mountains or sea.

Morning Tweet, I want you to look at these four cards and point out one to say, "This one feels like me". I want you to just pick naturally. There are no wrong answers, okay?

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

i don't play any of those colours.

loki is looking very cute today though

[Isis]

Black has all the bats

[Farren]

So let's say it's Ydrasse/tea leaves.

No daytalk, so no coordination.

Does Ydrasse decide that - of the two of them - she's in the better position to take it home for scum? Or does she think there's no chance tea leaves gets killed?

Both of those things sound dubious.

[Isis]

VOTE: tea leaves

[Isis]

distancing is like, pretty much always bilateral

if you execute a partner with better standing than you it clears you harder
and such

[Farren]

Actually, that makes one of the dubious propositions less dubious, now that I think of it. If Ydrasse was actively trying to get tea leaves dead, I'd expect a little more oomph in that vote. So maybe she didn't think there was any realistic chance of a tea leaves elimination. I'd say in a tea leaves / Ydrasse team, she was the worse positioned of the two - so if she seriously wanted to go about gaining cred, she'd need a case - not just a vote that could be dismissed as a vote anyone could cast in her shoes.

[Dannflor]

. . . . . .

[Dannflor]

. . . . . .

[Dannflor]

. . . . . .