Open 791 | Forest Fire | Game Over

[Isis]

VOTE: GuiltyLion

[Isis]

Bell who do you think the scumzor is

[Isis]

Bell who do you think the scumzor is

Plz stop trying to figure out whether you should keep me alive till 3F.

is this a way of saying you scumread me?

[Isis]

Remember when you cleared Not_Mafia because he hammered Phyyra Nikos out of the blue, Morning? Scum will do what's unexpected because it's exactly that; unexpected.

I'm gonna stop you right there, that is absolutely not why Not Mafia hammered his partner out of the blue.

He did that because he is Not_mafia. He would have done it if every single player in thread expected it and let him know so.

[Isis]

I want to decide whether to flip Bell or tea leaves I'd you flip green if you want something to focus on :X

[Isis]

I didn't find your reasons for scumreading Ydrasse very believable

[Isis]

I'm leaning closer to Tweet's solve right now though

[Isis]

yeah posts like 2690 would be the other reason I'm not comfortable with your slot
so little effort to empathize
both alignments do the "nuh uh" thing sometimes but it keeps feeling like a scummy flavor of it to me.

[Isis]

azelf is my favorite too. Also the pokemon card for it is very overpowered

[Isis]

I flipped my avatar, but I think you were afk the whole time. I couldn't get used to it facing the other way and I switched it back.

[Isis]

So you think we should wagon tea?

[Isis]

can we BoP you if tea flips green

[Isis]

seems like you know how many kills the scum is going to get better than I do..

[Isis]

I had a dream I read a scum PT between tea leaves and Ydrasse in private topics and I had to PM Dannflor because I was compromised and needed to rep out

[Isis]

Gamma I feel as though you haven't helped us solve

[Isis]

New reads:
Morning/Hobbes > Farren > Isis > Bell

I finally agree that Hobbes's bussing and then unvoting and vanity pushing Bell last second is extremely unlikely to come from scum.

But I dreamed you were scum! I should be higher

[Isis]

Okay but Isis really is towny now.

I should have roleplayed Annie this game, start to finish

[Isis]

New reads:
Morning/Hobbes > Farren > Isis > Bell

I finally agree that Hobbes's bussing and then unvoting and vanity pushing Bell last second is extremely unlikely to come from scum.

But I dreamed you were scum! I should be higher

That's true... and it would be a terrible crime to lie about your dreams.

I'm on mobile and I can't get the multi quote to go away.

But anyway it wouldn't be cheating to lie about one's game related dreams as scum, but I don't think I'd have the imagination to come up with that dream if it didn't happen.

[Isis]

Bell and tea leaves are the slots I'm most interested in chopping still.
I'll VOTE: Bell with farren

[Isis]

Farren is kind of a UTR for being a win tryhard day 1.
It's been baked into my mentality for this game not to revisit it but comments about how well the scum must be playing make me hrm

[Isis]

I don't really agree with the level of significance Farren assigns E1 announcements in games without PRs. I think he's talked about it other times during the game (apparently I asked Bell for a vote that would have been a hammer)

[Isis]

Farren who is your top town

[Isis]

If my reads stay the same, my vote is going back there while i think I don’t always vote for pressure. But in this case The vote came first but the questions were right behind.

If a E-1 vote is going to be cast for pressure, it's got a heck of a lot more punch to it if it's announced as E-1.

I don't really vote for pressure and I guess maybe I project that too much

[Isis]

I'm a bad vote today because there's no chance I'm covered in oil. Strategy wise there is a benefit for reordering me to eLo if I'm to be chopped this game
Guilty lion vote was attractive because of the good chance of oil
Bell has some chance of oil too I think

[Isis]

The way day 1 and day 2 went I think a scumteam that doesn't think they can mischop me would necessarily be one that has such poor confidence they need to PM the mod to concede

That's changed during this phase

[Isis]

What are you asking? Are you asking me?

[Isis]

I'm concluding I am not covered in oil

[Isis]

We get a bonus day if we chop someone who is covered in oil

[Isis]

Farren>Tweet>(s_s tea leaves bell) in a tumultuous order

[Isis]

Tea leaves might be my favorite scumread but he would be the worst chop based on oil strategy

[Isis]

It's a mixed function, someone who is likely to be an arsonist, but who is covered in oil in the event we are wrong, is ideal

[Isis]

If you prefer to formalize it we should make a list of two consensus scumread since we get a minimum of two chops, then they should be chopped in reverse order of cleanliness

[Isis]

If you have a list of the arsonists from Dannflor it's better to vote based on that list, but, you don't.

This isn't nearly as hard as you're obstinately making it. It's a fringe benefit for preferring certain scummy people over other scummy people due to the mechanic

[Isis]

Like would you rather throw at a dartboard with a ten dollar bullseye and several rings with eight dollar penalties or a dartboard with a ninedollar bullseye and several rings with one dollar penalties

[Isis]

Our illustrious firefighter still prefers an s_s vote I think? And s_s is probably covered in oil if town? So.

[Isis]

Ok what if your aim is reminiscent of a social deduction game where there is barely evidence of towns voting better than random chance

[Isis]

Since it's almost impossible to get 2 bonus chops but very possible to get 1 bonus chops, the scum's ability to use a consensus list to choose who to prime isn't relevant to the formalized list-then-chop strategy

[Isis]

S_S why are you white knighting me it conflicts with how I'd prefer to feel about your slot
:Frown:

[Isis]

S_S why'd you change your avatar to azelf instead of ugly stuff

[Isis]

Ok what if your aim is reminiscent of a social deduction game where there is barely evidence of towns voting better than random chance

Still have to establish the size of the bullseyes and the rings. If the bullseye's big enough and the rings are small enough, aim becomes less important.

Still. To avoid stretching the analogy any further, let me re-word your question to something that's more likely to resonate. This actually ties into that last off-site Town game, now that I think of it. At least kinda.

In that game, I was the Jailkeeper. And I was making my picks then based on this type of logic: "If Town, this person has a decent chance of being NK'd. If scum, this person has a decent chance of thinking they're in the position where they can make the kill." Using that logic in a 9er, I missed N1 but stopped a kill N2.

Is that the sort of thing you're going for?

yes

[Isis]

Farren why don't you townread me
I've felt so unguarded at various points this game

[Isis]

Who is in control of this game? I feel like this feels like a conspiracy game sometimes. Tea leaves' conspiracy vote actually resonates and I actually kind of townread it X_X

[Isis]

The emoji was a typo

[Isis]

UNVOTE:

[Isis]

We could have a win condition of "Pick two town players" and still lose

[Isis]

Farren why don't you townread me
I've felt so unguarded at various points this game

Because I keep thinking to myself, "Just because you don't play that way as scum doesn't mean she can't."

Because every time I try, something else happens - like that most recent unannounced E-1 vote you cast. That's something that to me is antithetical as Town. Yeah, I know, Town sometimes does it. It's a mistake, but Town makes mistakes.

Town is defined by a state of ignorance ever striving for knowledge, while scum is the reverse - a state of knowledge striving to maintain and feign ignorance.

And I know - not everyone plays Town the same way. That's something I have to keep reminding myself about, over and over and OVER again.

PEdit> Is anyone in control of this game? If there is, I'm not seeing it.
PEdit PEdit> yeah, we're not doing this again. *starts smashing submit*

So When I do difficult to fake sorting, well, everyone is different.

But When I put someone on E1 unannounced, as a player who does so all the time and even hammers on accident, my deviation from one of Farren's rule makes me scum

[Isis]

Hectic what were you thinking when you voted conspiracy?

[Isis]

Has s_s? He kind of doesn't have enough time to.

[Isis]

VOTE: Azelf

[Isis]

I can't remember a single guiltylion post

[Isis]

Something_Smart's avatar is a Ditto that used the transform ability to copy the stats, moveset, and appearance of an Azelf. Nickname votes would be "Ditto" or "S_S", but "Azelf" is clearly not a vote for that user.

[Isis]

Ditto clones are only portrayed with modified eyes in the anime, not in the video games

[Isis]

I guess it's an anime Azelf though

[Isis]

I wonder why S_S finds my posts so parseable. I really need to play more self-imposed post restriction games

[Isis]

It seems like a type of normal. Normal is the worst thing to be

[Isis]

There is a entire game series called pokemon based on this concept

[Isis]

But my favorite pokemon got retconned to be a fairy so now she has resistances yay

[Isis]

I had no trouble with whitney but I think my team was something weird

[Isis]

yeah
the current state of my reads is that I think tea leaves merits being flipped more than anyone, but has no chance of being oily so should be second or third chop.
and Bell and GL are the other two slots I want to flip
Bell is sanding down my scumread on him though
I might want to re-examine my townreads in the next phase or two

[Isis]

S_S can I do some of your homework Morning Tweet won't let me do any of hers she said I wasn't smart enough it was super toxic

[Isis]

that looks evil

[Isis]

Is Bell Farren just a PoE or is something actively scummy about them

[Isis]

why do you find tweet town

I keep worrying about this game going through some phases and all the people telling me tweet is town are burnt and then I throw with a tweet chop because I forgot

[Isis]

did I hammer again!??!!?!?

[Isis]

i will eradicate this rule from every copypasta ruleset one by one my forest

[Isis]

It was a serious indicator of which slot in the game I would most prefer the hammer to fall at this point
it was not a vote I think should be valid in wellbuilt rulesets cause there are serious issues with nickname acceptability rules

[Isis]

idk if S_S has read enough of the game to really internalize how against the grain trying to do a Farren scumread is

[Isis]

Bell is the only thing other than S_S I'd be willing to do because I think tea's lack of oil matters that much. Tea is the scummiest but not by an entire tier, I would ignore a mechanic consideration like that only if he's like a full tier scummier.

[Isis]

yes but do you feel the unpopularity resonating through your body with the intensity of 123 pages like we do

[Isis]

this was kind of my beef with waiting for the replacement. It is icky. Although I forgot S_S stays in the game. So I guess maybe it's less icky. Hrm

[Isis]

i've seen S_S rep into a hard scumread town slot a few gazillion pages into a game and be really chill

[Isis]

he stays in the game if he's scum, but it is the game that must terminate!

[Isis]

i think this is what engaged S_S is supposed to look like Farren. Like this is S_S's 10, and it's fine. It's a player known for extremely frequently being the last one to cast a vote

[Isis]

S_S was once issued a Rosalina avatar, given a scum PT with Hectic, and still failed to exude WIM that looks the way other people do when they exude WIM


I would be climbing the furniture

[Isis]

4 hours left

[Isis]

I just noticed my avatar is kinda similarly coloured to S_S's now

I think that we are a scumteam

[Isis]

I think S_S's skillset is badly skewed for this phase and well skewed for next phase
I don't think he is particularly good at obvtowning
but I think he is pretty good at keeping towns from destroying themselves
which I feel like is what our town wants to do

[Isis]

oh pedits

[Isis]

Something_Smart help us we are out here struggling

[Isis]

VOTE: Gligar

[Isis]

ftr I would twilight troll a completed game and people should be ready for that to happen from time to time

I want the told-you-so's on that argument with Farren about Ydrasse voting during FF claims.

[Isis]

Azelf is a legendary pokemon. It is very powerful

[Isis]

Still want to wait for Hobbes's replacement though.

Hectic why you gotta make me play Conspiracy

[Isis]

This setup needs a town nerf

[Isis]

I think it just needs to be dumpstered honestly. I only replaced in because I was itching to play in a game and the request was like four days old so I wanted to do the game a favor. But I hate this setup and would rarely, if ever, sign up for it directly

If it should be dumpstered it's because treestumping is bad mafia, and it probably is.

I also wasn't excited to play this setup and repped in for nonsetup reasons, so..

[Isis]

S_S deserves much thanks for taking the rep slot

[Isis]

i think he played well but there was so much intertia.

[Isis]

WAIT MY DREAM WAS WRONG

[Isis]

this was such a good lobby

[Isis]

you catalyze my interest in mobages and that's what matters

[Isis]

omgggg

[Isis]

VOTE: conspiracy

[Isis]

according to my dream you have already viewed pregame chat

[Isis]

no daytalk seems brutal when this setup is townsided on its face

[Isis]

I am sorry for scumreading you hectic

[Isis]

I am sorry for scumreading you hectic

It's cool. I'm glad my soulread on you was correct. Start if day 3-tea leaves' reads were so much better than the end of day 3 reads. Maybe extended day phases are a bad thing.

Town winrates are higher when deadlines are shorter, this was observed when the newbie queue deadline was shortened, are you aware of that factoid?

[Isis]

Probably something like that. Who knows for sure, mafia is mysterious

[Isis]

is there any way i can get off of your blacklist

[Isis]

i'm definitely not a fan of popsofctown popsofctown is complete and utter trash

[Isis]

YOU ARE FORGIVEN

[Isis]

we were a scumteam in this game, just a town scumteam

[Isis]

Also we had a toxic 1v1

[Isis]

You always wanted it

[Isis]

I'm excited!!!!

[Isis]

Ydrasse I wanted to be town together!

[Isis]

I found this hilarious, I've been waiting for the game to end to post it since I thought referencing it would be an unfair way to expose my role

It is now Night 1. Send in any actions before (expired on 2020-08-29 23:24:20)

douse dannflor

douse me with what

milk

Your action failed to go through.

[Isis]

Thanks for playing everyone. If I were to run this setup again I would 100% give scum day talk. But honestly I think the setup probably needs the removal of the firefighter and stumps. But then it just turns into a nightless with a much bigger ElLo which is a setup I've played and is absolutely grueling for town so maybe this setup is just broken. It's a shame because I really wanted to like it

Yeah I'm not sure about the setup. I think the good parts of are the rhythm of elims and NKs being somehow different from a mountainous game, similar to double day. But it sounds like you've determined that this exact rhythm is unfun by playing a similar setup if larger eLo's feel bad.

I do want to point out that there is still a difference other than "nightless with a bigger elo" even without stumps and FF: the strange incentive where eliminating primed players doesn't harm you as much is still present. I don't think that's a particularly fun or appealing conceit, but it is something functionally different.

[Isis]

I feel like the balance didn’t matter much in this game though.
The mechanics didn’t really have enough time to hurt the scum team, yeah?

I used to agree with "this was a landslide so the balance doesn't matter" but after rolling scum in a variety of setup I've realized this can be flawed because it presumes the scum dayplay ignores the setup, and it doesn't. Scum can dayplay differently based on how much wiggle room the setup gives them.
For example, suppose this was some entirely different setup that is way way more powerful for scum, so much more powerful for scum that at the time S_S repped in he only needed one mischop to win the game. It's wrong to say, "S_S would have still been chopped that day and lost the game because we just saw that happen", because different lines of play would be available to him. Rather than townreading several slots and expressing that the game's solve didn't seem easy to fit in with the texture of the game fully enough to have a strong dance of going the distance for several more phases, he could consider doing a death meta case on one specific player that would implicate him if it flips green. That line of play isn't available in the setup we actually played, because the goal is to survive 3 chops instead of 1.

[Isis]

This setup suffers from a presumption that a highly flavorful mechanic will therefore be fun methinks

[Isis]

Any advice on my play? I know it’s not a newbie game but I like learning what people feel.

I think one reason it was scarier to townbin you that MT and TL didn't suffer from is feeling like you could pivot to voting any slot in the game, while MT and TL actively cornered themselves out of lines of play by more frequently stating townreads and their certainty level and the reasoning for them. You might be able to point to places in your iso where factually you were doing so; mafia constructive criticism is rough so I'm mentioning an impression off the top of my head.

I would say Farren did this even less than you, he just mega obvtowned in other ways for me day 1 so it just kind of didn't matter.

[Isis]

Even if you can't manage all the added solving to go with it I think firmer stances would help

[Isis]

Well, some opinions about what scum look like are more correct, and some opinions about what scum look like are more popular, and the opinion that scum do less solving is

very popular

.

[Isis]

Hectic how did you know I was town?

[Isis]

I'm chuckling from how clumsy Farren thinks I am with not tracking my own votes and such
I think I just play mafia different

[Isis]

Oh, nah, I format humor that way I just thought I was supposed to be on the receiving end

[Isis]