Open 791 | Forest Fire | Game Over

[Gamma Emerald]

Hello fellow trees.

[Gamma Emerald]

I townread Ydrasse and will stake my life to protect him

[Gamma Emerald]

I townread Ydrasse and will stake my life to protect him

How exaggerated is this?

Like halfway

But I do like how he responded to my entrance

[Gamma Emerald]

wut

[Gamma Emerald]

I townread Ydrasse and will stake my life to protect him

Would me mentioning that Ydrasse is a great scum player sway your opinion, or are you rock solid

Already stated this was a bit puffed up, thanks for your input though

[Gamma Emerald]

I townread Gamma, I think that's my strongest read right now

regarding the idea of eliminating strong town players - I agree that there might be a side benefit if we tree stump someone with good reads, but when I rolled scum I was thinking about how a lot of players in this PL are high WIM tryhards and going to be difficult to convincingly scumread/eliminate. so I'd be skeptical of letting people get away with votes just because the consequences aren't too bad if we hit town - that still allows scum to get a step closer to wincon, and could give them more room to justify/excuse their votes. If we're voting to eliminate someone I think voters still need to pressed to explain why that player in particular is likely to be scum, I wouldn't be down for policying somebody solely because we think they'd still be good as a tree stump.

Interesting. I won’t put it past someone to townread me, but why do you specifically townread me? I recall you expressing I am not an easy read for you in the past.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Menalque - I don't think 70 is likely to come from scum, that's a really aggressive/call-attention-to-yourself way to defend somebody.

@clidd - I think the couple of issues I have with Farren are that a few of his questions don't seem likely to advance the game in a useful way and are either blendy or stirring things - mainly 20 and 72. I also think the soft defense of Ydrasse may be a WK

That’s about what I expected for the base reasoning, though I’m still okay if you want to expand on that a little.

[Gamma Emerald]

hi ydrasse!

policy guillotining of all lurkers? what are your thoughts?

:/

[Gamma Emerald]

I will try to explain it eventually, but as I said, I don't want to have to surprise the expectations of elucidating in the rational-irrefutable field the progression of my tiredness.

what does this mean

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, pine, dunn all null.

Farren is still bit more towards scum, I think. But if my townreads are right, then I think this is winning already.

From where I'm standing, you being correct about your townreads (and Town yourself) means all the scum are in your null pile. How much of your townreads (both quantity and quality) are based on people scumreading me?

Why would they be?

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Morning is town.
I think Clidd is town.
I think ydrasse is probably town.
I think GL is probably town, but actually maybe a little weaker than the other three.

Gamma, pine, dunn all null.

This seems opportunistic if farren is town.

Usually when I see "opportunistic" it's referring to someone jumping on a common scum wagon. That doesn't seem to apply here - could you explain further?

I like this post

[Gamma Emerald]

There’s a lot of meta talk on the last few pages that is going way over my head

[Gamma Emerald]

Which is why I want to be evaluated per play, not meta.

FYI I think rn I read you slightly town on play

[Gamma Emerald]

I actually rolled scum in the original roll of this setup and it was very scary indeed!

VOTE: Farren
did you roll scum again?

Nope. As much as I would have enjoyed conspiring with you, I definitely breathed a sigh of relief when I saw the reroll.

This reads like a scumpost. "definitely" is a bit much if scumming with GL would've been fine. Lady doth protest too much methinks

Methinks I agree

[Gamma Emerald]

Hello fellow trees.

I hope someone pointed out that Gamma is humorously claiming scum because Sudowoodo is a pokemon that looks like a tree but is not a tree. And this occurs in Pokemon Emerald so it's rather noice

You happen to be the first. Well done.

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE: Morning Tweet
VOTE: Gamma Emerald

I was going to switch to Ydrasse next, but I saw something that I thought had ... a connection, I guess? ... to a part of the gamestate, and I want to see if it develops on its own without me poking at it first.

Gamma, I saw one brief moment where you put yourself out there - and then you withdrew. Got anything else like that?

Yes, but it requires me to have the time and energy to put it out there
Things which Im severely lacking rn

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE: Morning Tweet
VOTE: Gamma Emerald

I was going to switch to Ydrasse next, but I saw something that I thought had ... a connection, I guess? ... to a part of the gamestate, and I want to see if it develops on its own without me poking at it first.

Gamma, I saw one brief moment where you put yourself out there - and then you withdrew. Got anything else like that?

+Town points

I think I have to agree, no one had really challenged me up to that point so doing so was a bit of a shot in the dark wrt how he would be received
Plus I think I can accept the answer to the thing I previously found suspect

[Gamma Emerald]

Is the game fun to read through?

I’d say it has a dry but smoky flavor, you need to let it steep for a while
(Hope you don’t mind tea metaphors, I truly enjoy a good herbal tea)

[Gamma Emerald]

I forget this setup has a PR cause it doesnt need one imo

It’s probably best to assume it’s not gonna do anything
Hope for the best, plan for the worst

[Gamma Emerald]

i think this is probably a self-centered view regarding guiltylion because he voted me, but it feels as if he's hyperfocused on a few small things that are at odds with being as cognizant of the game state as he is?

His early townread on me still deeply pings me, and he recently reaffirmed it without much prompting or details regarding it, which I’m not sure how to feel about

[Gamma Emerald]

80: I like this post from Morning Tweet and the way she turns in the middle of it.
90: I think this means this what Ydrasse is doing or trying to do since she's thinking about it? Town vibes.
98: I love when people hold onto reads like this and I think it's towny thinking.
104: This opinion I don't like and I think it's a lil forced because scum can have fake confidence like Gamma showed all the time.
112: Don't like this from Gamma because there's like no way to expand on that haha.
113: I think Farren having a perfect explanation for ALL of GuiltyLion's points is a bad sign and like he feels the need to have one for everything when it'd be ok if some stuff was fluff like townies usually have.
119: Exactly what I mean in Farren, Morning Tweet! But why don't you just call him out on it instead of mentioning it in this shady way?

Could you describe your overall thoughts on Farren a bit?

[Gamma Emerald]

tea leaves and Isis are doing some strange interpretive dance with their votes it seems

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma do you expect to be more active the rest of the day phase or no?

Not really

[Gamma Emerald]

It’s not any sort of plan
I’m just trying to avoid making promises I likely won’t keep

[Gamma Emerald]

I guess the Lion and Dunnstral are my picks for the arsonist right now because Gamma's last few posts were ok.
VOTE: GuiltyLion

Do you mind answering my question about your Farren read?

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok MT. I like the opinion on Dunnstral and I agree with a lot of them.
I think I already did in my read list Gamma or did you want more?

I would like more, yes

[Gamma Emerald]

Question for both Gamma Emerald and Dunnstral: neither of you have voted at all yet. Why not? We're over halfway through D1.

I am between 2 options rn, waiting to decide until I get something to push me one way or the other

[Gamma Emerald]

will not be around to Properly talk/etc but @tea, what about guilty feels off to you? i remember your slot's predecessor saying the exact same thing and i'm wondering if you can verbalize it a bit better?

guys

why does Ydrasse ask this to someone about someone she claims to be scumreading/voting?

am I the only one seeing this?

That’s not a scum thing at all though
Just because you may feel a certain way doesn’t mean you can’t question others who do as well

[Gamma Emerald]

will not be around to Properly talk/etc but @tea, what about guilty feels off to you? i remember your slot's predecessor saying the exact same thing and i'm wondering if you can verbalize it a bit better?

guys

why does Ydrasse ask this to someone about someone she claims to be scumreading/voting?

am I the only one seeing this?

That’s not a scum thing at all though
Just because you may feel a certain way doesn’t mean you can’t question others who do as well

I've caught scum with pretty similar behavior

if Ydrasse scumreads me, she should be welcoming more votes on me, not questioning them. It feels she's trying to stir up Tea Leaves vs GL more than actually interested in executing me today

Pretty sure it was a fluke, I’ve done that myself as Town once or a dozen times iirc

[Gamma Emerald]

Pretty sure it was a fluke, I’ve done that myself as Town once or a dozen times iirc

well that means you play scummy as town

:thonk:

[Gamma Emerald]

But like
Why is it scummy to try to avoid biasing oneself

[Gamma Emerald]

Those positions make sense for Dunnstral and Pine.

I do not understand your townread on Gamma Emerald. I liked 70 and 77. You initially mentioned your read of Gamma in 99; I can see a townread at that point. Has anything since then influenced it?

Farren asks a weird question over here because he's asking about this townread saying he doesn't understand it despite saying he liked and agreed with mentions of it precious.

GuiltyLion posts recently looked better to me so now I'll go for Dunnstral or Farren. To make things interesting I'll vote Farren.
VOTE: Farren

How do GL’s posts look better rn

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: tea

Why

I’ve been thinking about voting there myself but I think they’re displaying a decent level of solving rn

[Gamma Emerald]

Yes I would admit I'm scum and hope everyone thought I was joking because townies claim scum sometimes.

This is what is called a trust tell
Don’t do this.

[Gamma Emerald]

No this is town spew because I'm explaining everything without a filter and everyone else will townread this you'll see.

Okay the solving posts are good but stuff like this is HRRRM

[Gamma Emerald]

If you take an axe and bisect an arsonist, you don't get a talking head. You get a bloody mess.

Fortunately, blood make good fertilizer.

I think you're being rather optimistic about how articulate a tree is, before or after it is chopped

This exchange is comedy gold

[Gamma Emerald]

@farren: :> i was just reading over that and noticed that gl didn't actually reply to that as far as i can see?

i think that gamma being resistant of accepting the townread/actively pushing against gl is townier than gl offering the tr and rolling with it/affirming it.

|O|_|_|
|_|X|_|
|_|_|_|

I did answer it in 104, Gamma acknowledged this in his next post

here's a question for both you and Farren regarding my Gamma TR - why would scum!me give a freebie townread on Gamma specifically? What do you think is my angle here? When I rolled scum in the first roll of this setup, I specifically named him in the mafia PT (dunno if Farren/MT saw those posts tho) as someone I thought we may be able to plausibly push/eliminate. He's not someone who is generally universally townread or a town leader, I've historically mistakenly scumread him in several prior games, and this game so far isn't really an exception to his normal style IMO.

however, he has done something I actually see as quite town-indicative this game - he claimed an early strong townread on a questionable slot while it was under scrutiny from a well-known aggressive/influential player in Menalque. I hardly see this come from scum - if town!Ydrasse, he's cutting off avenues to vote her later for no real gain in terms of towncred, and risks town spewing her on his flip. I also doubt he'd do it if they were partnered, the vast majority of scum players are too scared to defend their buddy from early game suspicion in that manner.

The only agenda I could

maybe

see as scum-serving is if he's partnered with exactly Menalque and they were using Ydrasse as a wedge topic to casually distance from each other without actually pushing each other directly, but that like actively requires me to don the tinfoil.

There's also the execution of the post/read, he didn't bother to give a real explanation nor did he try to double down on it when he received blowback, it strikes me as a fundamentally genuine thought with no agenda or scum motivation. That's solid grounds for a D1 townread, and I haven't seen him

do

anything to make me want to go back and re-evaluate, as I said yesterday.

so winding back - if I'm scum and Gamma's town, why would I go through the effort of fake TRing him, especially since you don't see this as S-S? Would Gamma really be a necessary pocket for me here? If I were scum I don't think I'd even need to bring a read on him to the table at that point, it was literally the first read I gave and I could have likely dressed up a read on almost anybody else if I wanted to.

I can understand

not agreeing

with my read here, but I can't grok how you see scum!agenda in it, Gamma's not under threat of elimination and he'd be very low on the list of slots I feel I need to buddy or to play around if I were scum.

Well shoot, I’ve had this pet theory that one but not both of GL/tea was scum, but now both of them have posted things that make me question that idea (this is why I wasn’t voting btw)
Cos like, this explanation about the read on me is actually really good at allaying the concerns I had
Isis talk to me about what you see from tea leaves that’s scummy

[Gamma Emerald]

Self-narration is when a player trys to construct an accounting of their own internal experience.
Perhaps said differently, it's when a player thinks out loud to get into their town character. The issue is right there in the wording, they don't need to type out their internal reasoning unprompted unless someone asks because they're town already. But a scum player that needs to fake the perspective of a town player might write something like that.

I’d have to reflect on whether I do this while playing mafia, but in general irl situations I tend to self-narrate my thought process whenever I make an interesting connection to try and walk people through how my mind works, so maybe that’s a reason some people would do it as a NAI thing
I don’t really understand what the reference point here is, I just saw something that I felt like speaking up on

[Gamma Emerald]

tea is very self conscious about their appearance. They're very eager to present reads but then say they're not confident about the reads, demonstrating acting out of compulsion rather than conviction.

I still think the pred was scummy, also.

the townread on me seems like placating tmi bs, I don't think I've spewed my alignment that much this game

This at least puts my original reason to TR tea into a framework where it makes sense for them to be scum, so that helps
And yeah I think I see what you mean

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: tea leaves
Yeah I think I can get behind the idea of this being scum for trying to look town
They way they’re trying to work with the trust tell thing is telling with this

[Gamma Emerald]

The issue I have is your need to editorialize what you’ve said over and over though
The post directly before I voted is a key example

[Gamma Emerald]

The issue I have is your need to editorialize what you’ve said over and over though
The post directly before I voted is a key example

Would this be another example of "the gentlefolk doth protest too much?"

Yes.

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah I think I can get behind the idea of this being scum for trying to look town
They way they’re trying to work with the trust tell thing is telling with this

What you described in 759 was not a trust tell. Adding part of 595 for context ...

If you would never roll scum why do you need a contingency plan for if you did?

Yes I would admit I'm scum and

hope everyone thought I was joking

because townies claim scum sometimes.

(underlining added)

Trust tells require that a player do a specific action as a particular alignment with the purposes of proving their alignment by only doing the action as that alignment - and then doing so repeatedly over multiple games. That's definitely not what's happening here; even if it applies to this game at all, it'd be an attempt at concealing alignment, which is the precise opposite of what a trust tell seeks to accomplish.

What gives?

It’s not a generic trust tell (doing X as town but never as scum) but it’s still a trust tell of omission (the lack of X is the indicator they’re Town), which imo is a lot more dangerous. I initially didn’t like it for that reason, but it wasn’t really anything I could realistically vote. The reaction when I pressed it, however, made me feel the way I do now about tea leaves.

[Gamma Emerald]

It's ok though. I have a contingency plan if I am forced into the tree stumped lifestyle and I'm already gathering a collection of cool trees to post as motivational support if they chop me down.

THE ONLY THING THAT PINGS ME ABT TEA IS THAT THEY KEEP BRINGING UP BEING STUMPED and what they'll do after

Still think they're town tho

Can we do Dunn first? pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease

I also would prefer Ydrasse but i should probably get on that reread of her first

Has Dunn done (lol) anything actively scummy?

[Gamma Emerald]

It’s all clidd. 4 games, he kind of sucks as scum(no offense Clidd!)

Tea leaves seems friendly though, so I guess that slightly adds to it.

Why does being friendly make them town?

[Gamma Emerald]

i'm like super offended she is comfortable with this playerlist even though I'm in it my reputation should precede me she should be horrified of me

i'm horrified of you Isis!!

does that make up for it

Why is farren so low? Just PoE?

i forget why i townread him

In reality, you, Gamma, and Farren should be on the same tier but i felt like ordering it

In that case why am I above the null line but those two aren’t?

[Gamma Emerald]

Sorry isis, i don’t See why I should fear the townie.
Misguided tho she may be.
Though you seem a lot less friendly than last time. But mena was town so I don’t quite know what to do with that.
*shrug*

I can’t read dunstral.

Pedit: gamma, it’s short for not really fearing the player list. Or any particular interaction.

I see what you mean, I don’t agree but I see it.

[Gamma Emerald]

It's ok though. I have a contingency plan if I am forced into the tree stumped lifestyle and I'm already gathering a collection of cool trees to post as motivational support if they chop me down.

THE ONLY THING THAT PINGS ME ABT TEA IS THAT THEY KEEP BRINGING UP BEING STUMPED and what they'll do after

Still think they're town tho

Can we do Dunn first? pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease

I also would prefer Ydrasse but i should probably get on that reread of her first

Has Dunn done (lol) anything actively scummy?

Vaguely

Spoiler: Dunn readin

Dunnstral -

Basically no content yet. He has 10 posts, but around half of them aren't super game related. I'll grab the ones that are

What makes you suppose he's right on all his townreads?

I think Morning is town.
I think Clidd is town.
I think ydrasse is probably town.
I think GL is probably town, but actually maybe a little weaker than the other three.

Gamma, pine, dunn all null.

This seems opportunistic if farren is town.

Why does it seem opportunistic, dunn?

You put all the low posters in your null pile, which is actually just your scum pile but you're not calling it that

This combined with GL's scum in the actives comment made me wonder if there's an arsonist who felt the need to push back against Mena's early townlist. Dunn directly goes into a contrarian mode against Mena, whereas Guilty more subtlely implied there's scum in the active players (Mena was townreading almost all the activeish players).

I am curious as to why the only thing in the thread Dunn opted to comment at the time on was this. What made it the main thing that caught his eye, i mean. I'd like to talk about it more but I'm actually kind of missing what his point is too. What does putting the low posters in null and Farren in scum have to do with being opportunistic?

(me sitting here with 5 posts while clidd is pushed instead)

I feel like Morning Tweet should be calling me out for my lack of presence in this game or something

This feels like WIFOM!! But you're right

Dunn, although you may be correct that I should be one to notice you're gone -- what was the point of pointing it out in 411? Does it make you think im scummy? I struggle to find what the intention behind pointing it out was

Unless you're scum in which case it makes you look good in an indirect way. It's like a way to compensate for being inactive-- you point it out yourself before I or someone else does and it makes you look good for calling attention to something potentially scummy about yourself unprompted

He also vanished D1 in the game I played with him previously (Silent Star)

Whereas he was a huge player in my town game with him (vampirewarlockwerewolf)

im aware he has the capacity to vanish as town too, though :I

Yeah this makes sense, and I’m glad you’re aware of Dunn’s meta regarding activity

@Farren

I wasn’t really starting from any point for how I actually engaged that. But to talk in line with your topic, the problem with that type of tell is you can put it off however long you like and if it’s an established trend the other players would likely be hesitant to vote you because “they haven’t done the scum thing yet”. It’s not exactly what I’d consider a hard rule break, but it’s against the spirit of the game imo
And yeah I understand the point about “it wasn’t a trust tell in context”, but it came off as that so I poked it as if it were one, and rather than stand their ground, tea leaves backpedaled. That’s the key issue I think should be focused on, that backpedal action.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma do you prefer playing scum or town?

These days, definitely scum, if I’m able to participate. Town if I have trouble participating, because I find when I have trouble participating as scum it 99% of the time will lead to my elimination.

[Gamma Emerald]

So basically when you have free time you prefer to be scum and when you don’t you prefer to be town?

Exactly

[Gamma Emerald]

Is it optimal to cc immediately if Dunnstral claims arsonist or put it off a day to spray some water around

Do you mean FF
I’d say the former, it put scum at a solid numbers disadvantage to start (if they want to ensure that the FF is gone ASAP, they have to ignite N2, which equal one night they could have primed that they didn’t).

[Gamma Emerald]

Ydrasse what’s your PoE/townbloc looking like rn

[Gamma Emerald]

Do you want to know mine?

[Gamma Emerald]

Mine’s from Dragalia Lost, it’s one of the villains and an endgame boss fight

[Gamma Emerald]

(Pretty sure Isis was aware of that already btw)

[Gamma Emerald]

bold of you to assume I reached endgame

Well I remembered you saying you played Dragalia Lost around the end of last year or smth

[Gamma Emerald]

dragalia is an okay game I just couldn't keep up with it and pad

I actually have managed to keep good pace, albeit with some in game purchases, mostly because of good summoning practices
FEH though, I just lost interest entirely after getting tormented for the last time
I’ve also started playing Mario Kart Tour recently, I sunk 100 bucks into it but I feel it was worth it as I now feel like I’m able to go at it with players who’ve played for a while

[Gamma Emerald]

I can be a plant avi if you want

[Gamma Emerald]

It is done.

[Gamma Emerald]

Pretty sure SPB took it from Dann

[Gamma Emerald]

I put it out with my water-attuned powers!

[Gamma Emerald]

No cc

[Gamma Emerald]

Let's get Ydrasse.
If her ghost haunts me,
well, I'll deserve it.

Why

[Gamma Emerald]

That to everyone voting Ydrasse, that is just the that made me ask

[Gamma Emerald]

Pls give a TL;DR version because looking in your ISO it’s not fully apparent what the full thing is without stitching together like 15 different posts the see where the logic runs

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m going to be voting assuming 4 ( prolly closer to 3 rn) hours left since iirc that was conditional on Dunn actually needing replacement

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma, I just quick iso'd you.
Er, do you have reads?

Yes, I just haven't cared to put them all in one post. This is something a lot of people seem to mess up on when reading my posting. Albeit I don't really have much recently that's established my reads, I still have them, or at least had them.

But to sum up/establish some reads I may not have been clear/vocal on, suspecting tea leaves, townreading GL, strongly townread Farren, townread you, townread Isis but this is just kinda rolling with things, I haven't actually really made much active judgment of her posts. Ydrasse I lightly townread, but I need to actually weigh the case on her and see how it measures to my townread there, Dunn I was suspecting somewhat but since he claimed FF that's not a functional read rn. MT I'm null on.

Also, I used the VC to ensure I covered everyone I wanted to cover, and noticed something

@MOD: you still have Pine in the VC instead of Bell

[Gamma Emerald]

Why do you suspect Tea leaves if you're just kind of rolling with everyone else's opinions?
Last voice in the room about Tealeaves was me who said town.

@MT: I can't really argue with this. I think she's had one scum game here, yeah? Iso'd her posts there and I agree that if she has not changed at all since that last game then she isn't scum this game. But there's a lot of factors getting in the way of 1 to 1 meta on alignment. Things like mood, attitude, time circumstance etcetera that could probably just as easily explain it?

I'm not??? I only indicated that for Isis.

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like you could shut me down and strangle a wagon on ydrasse if you really believed she was town. However, you stated you had a weak read there. Are you just watching and listening and trying to figure stuff out?

Pedit: Ah, I see Gamma. Just for Isis.

I feel dead in the water on suspects (despite SRing tea), so I'm more willing to hear others out on theirs.

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma i want u to read me 4 me

I'm feeling kinda enervated, so maybe later? tbh I might turn in for the night soon

[Gamma Emerald]

oh sorry

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, the first post I made was the short version.
1. Self-narration. Someone mentioned that they do this IRL as town, but I'm talking about online mafia.
2. Watching and Waiting.
3. Using Isis as a shield.

I'm not saying I'm 100% confident that she's scum, I just think she's scum.

Ok before I actually dive into this I’d like to say it was me who made the irl point regarding 1

Anyway, time to try to do things in the remaining time

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel underwhelmed but not creeped out about GL

i talked myself into this actually

VOTE: guiltylion

Bell would you say this falls under “using Isis as a shield”? I like the initiative of voting at that point but I can also see it as scum trying to go hipster mode on the bandwagon

[Gamma Emerald]

i actually think now i'd prefer dunn over tea leaves; my read on tea leaves in that situation kind of rests on the implication that dunn is scum along with tea and i can... feasibly believe that tea believes farren is scum even if i don't think that the examples provided are particularly damning. i also don't have a reason to really townread dunn in comparison to other people.

VOTE: dunn

With this being the E-1 vote I’m interested to see again how Ydrasse reacted to the claim

[Gamma Emerald]

this is on the presumption that dunn is uncc'd + if it is and i'm asleep everyone can strongarm an elim on him through regardless

VOTE: guiltylion

town dunn makes me feel better about tea + that vote a while back. my working brain completely brushed over the fact gl had said that thing about me + dunn. i don't like how he was ready to switch to me at any point were the signs there and then didn't really do much about it when i joined a wagon that he was also on. even if he thinks that we don't make sense together i'd think that someone would be a little more worried about their Strongest (?) scumread hopping on with them.

p-edit: ya that's fine with me

Yeah I kinda feel like this is a bit too accepting of his claim in a way? Like it feels very self-assured that this won’t be rebuked
If GL doesn’t CC I’m inclined to vote out Ydrasse, and if Ydrasse flips scum that probably clears GL because Ydrasse would know if GL was her partner and if they were partners there’d be that chance of a CC

[Gamma Emerald]

There’s that chance though
I feel like Ydrasse’s post just completely ignores that chances, at least subconsciously

[Gamma Emerald]

yes.
her ignoring the chance means she knows it's suboptimal play for partner!GL

I understand that thought, but I don’t know if it lines up with the gamestate

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Ydrasse
If I'm wrong I'll probably get executed at some point but I think this is a the right choice

[Gamma Emerald]

I felt like it might be, didn't explicitly know
But we've had a claim by the one PR with no CC, and we're close to deadline, so I feel no remorse for unwittingly hammering

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok
Did my response make you feel anything?

[Gamma Emerald]

damn
I was hoping to compare this to your reaction to my reaction to the fakehammer on me in Making Friends and Enemies but you said nothing in the dead PT about it

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't remember this game. Do you mean Masons and Mafia? But I thought you weren't in that

no, our first game together was a Making Friends and Enemies, modded by Aster
Unless you're

not

popsofctown?

[Gamma Emerald]

tbh I think I'm in a bit of a reverse movement, I'm probably going to become meaner in exchange for winning games more
at least on this site

[Gamma Emerald]

maybe, but I feel like trying to be nice just results in me losing interest in games here, because the games are so impersonal, specifically I used to play for a sense of social connection and belonging, but towards the end of last year I found that in an IRL social group, and I just lost the mojo to play mafia. I tried returning in spring but I misconstrued my issue as playing mafia as an obligation instead of a pastime (which I think was an issue but not the one that killed my motivation to play). I think this time I've actually managed to hit the right nerve in my mentality, because both this time and last time I returned I had something that took a good amount of my time away from mafia suddenly, but I actually managed to bounce back this time.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think of the situation as a bit like the game of Survivor. You have those that take the game personally and those that recognize it as a game. My idea is that I need to do the latter to actually enjoy mafia and want to keep playing it, and if I'm going to do that I have to accept sometimes I might have to be a little abrasive
I think I'm becoming RadiantCowbells, which is kinda terrifying on some level. He used to be so alien to me, being able to strongly relate to him feels wrong at this point.

[Gamma Emerald]

See, that sounds to me like an argument to go the other way. Recognizing it as a game means that everyone should walk away feeling more-or-less okay with how it went down, even if the outcome wasn't favorable.

Well, to go back to Survivor, those who recognize it as a game play harder because they don’t emotionally invest as much and so have less holding them back. Sure it may alienate those who get hurt by it, but the idea isn’t intentionally being mean, just not letting emotions get in the way. Sure I might still take an attack on me personally, but I’ll try not to let that poison my experience.

[Gamma Emerald]

I could vote either option rn

[Gamma Emerald]

I think "I don't have any reads" ranges from NAI to scummy

That’s not what I said. I said I felt like I was struggling for them, not that I didn’t have any. I even posted my reads around that time, so the fact you say this is very confusing.

[Gamma Emerald]

I strongly prefer Gamma to Tealeaves.
I would rather Ydrasse than tealeaves too.
It is the opinion of this court that Gamma would be a happier stump than a tree if a tree at all he be.

Well this court is wrong

[Gamma Emerald]

Also, Ydrasse and tea leaves had 3 votes while I had 1. Why did you shift, given that? You’re splitting focus between me and Ydrasse rn

[Gamma Emerald]

Than give me a better elimination with a reason.
It's a wrong idea to follow Radiant's footsteps unless you're as accurate as he is.

Seeing as you were already on Ydrasse, why not her?

[Gamma Emerald]

Why do you think?

I’d guess you’re deflecting from Ydrasse’s wagon.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Gamma

I'd heavily prefer Gamma over Ydrasse too. Join us, Ydrasse!!!

Why?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: tea leaves
There’s stronger reason imo for Ydrasse to be scum but I’m not gonna let myself get eliminated with how things are going down rn

[Gamma Emerald]

When it’s not extremely obvious it’s a scum-motivated push?

[Gamma Emerald]

Well, Dunnstral voted you first.
And Then I did.
Are you saying Isis and Tea Leaves and MT are scum here or.

Either you or tea leaves, maybe both.

[Gamma Emerald]

I can see potential scum motivation in tea leaves - keep another wagon besides their own active. What would scum|Bell's motivation be?

Split focus between Ydrasse and me, get me or tea leaves executed

[Gamma Emerald]

Why do you think?

I’d guess you’re deflecting from Ydrasse’s wagon.

Bell was pretty much a main driver of Ydrasse's wagon though? Like I don't think she'd have even been in consideration at this point if he hadn't started with a tunnel on her

That’s true
But I’m still not a fan of the way any of this played out

[Gamma Emerald]

It could be Isis but I just recently started townreading her for real stuff so I don’t want to go back on that rn, effort justification can be a pain sometimes

[Gamma Emerald]

Because this wagon should never have happened

[Gamma Emerald]

Imo it’s completely valid
Do you think me!scum gets wagoned on 4 vectors like this? There’s no structure to this wagon at all, it just randomly happened

[Gamma Emerald]

I understand it might be hard to swallow with a 2man team, but let’s also consider that it seems like no one has bothered to stick up for me in a meaningful capacity besides myself? At least one Town was closer to elimination than I was if I am scum, why doesn’t the other scum redirect to that Townie? And like I’m pretty sure everyone who hasn’t indicated interest in voting me specifically has checked in.

[Gamma Emerald]

I understand it might be hard to swallow with a 2man team, but let’s also consider that it seems like no one has bothered to stick up for me in a meaningful capacity besides myself? At least one Town was closer to elimination than I was if I am scum, why doesn’t the other scum redirect to that Townie? And like I’m pretty sure everyone who hasn’t indicated interest in voting me specifically has checked in.

Scum don't always defend each other. Busing is a thing. Distancing is a thing. Anti-associatives are a thing.

I was a low-level suspect though, it would have very likely been a system shock to see that happen and would likely trigger defense mode

Also, to

Bell

, I’m curious what you mean about Ydrasse cutting herself off from a wagon?

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah idk rn, that kinda just took the air out of my sails I think
Still need to properly process but it feels like that kills my point about the fact no one defended me

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma ur reaction to being wagoned is there must be scum on the wagon and therefore the wagon wouldn't have happened if you were scum?

Apologies if im misinterpretting im a bit cloudy today

can i proxy my vote to mt

no dont

I think there’s scum on my wagon because I think the different votes that came on have to add up to one scum
Tea leaves has self-interest, Bell there was the thought of being buddies with Ydrasse, which doesn’t hold up much now but was my thinking then, and I have a strong townread on Farren and a decent one on GL, leaving Isis and MT as viable suspects outside that
I’d either have to be wrong somewhere or have scum both in the margins for my claim to be off

[Gamma Emerald]

And FYI those thoughts aren’t really connected

[Gamma Emerald]

Wrt scum in the wagon and why I can’t be scum

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah I can't process it very well right now for some reason ummm not a great time considering there's like no time til deadline

I'm operating off of my spirtual Ydrasse townread and that I thought tea leaves was town earlier in the game. The last like 7-10 pages are probably really important for gauging how the Dunn wagon broke down into Ydrasse and into Gamma but I just can't read it good rn

There's a somewhat decent chance Gamma was just taken aback by the flash wagon and is responding to it with his first impulse even if maybe it doesn't make sense. But I don't want Ydrasse and i dont *think* i want tea leaves

I think there’s scum on my wagon because I think the different votes that came on have to add up to one scum
Tea leaves has self-interest, Bell there was the thought of being buddies with Ydrasse, which doesn’t hold up much now but was my thinking then, and I have a strong townread on Farren and a decent one on GL, leaving Isis and MT as viable suspects outside that
I’d either have to be wrong somewhere or have scum both in the margins for my claim to be off

I see, I suppose probability wise it makes sense. I see that Bell, Isis, and GL had negative reactions to your reaction but I also sort of had the same thought

Wdym negative reactions

[Gamma Emerald]

Farren flashwagon anyone? I have a dream.

That’s my strongest TR

[Gamma Emerald]

Those of you who mean me lasting harm, beware. You cannot kill me in a way that matters, for now.

[Gamma Emerald]

So were you town Gamma?

I’ll let my remains speak for themselves.

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like I’m not gonna be very useful going forward :/

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like I’m not gonna be very useful going forward :/

Are you still reading?

I will but I haven’t done so yet
Don’t hold me to anything though, if I’m not an active player with solid impact in a game my interest goes down remarkably

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like I’m not gonna be very useful going forward :/

You're conftown. Please don't willingly waste that.

Dunnstral, that goes to you too.

I’m not saying I’m going to do nothing, I just feel like whatever I can do won’t be much

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m going to TRY to read soon, but can I just get the 411 on the GL wagon real quick

[Gamma Emerald]

I guess I can get that thought

[Gamma Emerald]

I like Bell’s proactiveness but it is a mild change in character from D1 so I’ll see how I feel as the day goes on

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m kinda thinking MT is town just off the fact remembering how she dealt with my wagon it felt like she genuinely wasn’t ready to vote and wasn’t trying to keep her claws clean

FYI the “scum 100% on my wagon” push was partly to try and intimidate scum into folding at least a little, enough that it might pop out on inspection. I was livid about it happening but was also lucid enough about my rage to try and weaponize it

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m kinda thinking MT is town just off the fact remembering how she dealt with my wagon it felt like she genuinely wasn’t ready to vote and wasn’t trying to keep her claws clean

FYI the “scum 100% on my wagon” push was partly to try and intimidate scum into folding at least a little, enough that it might pop out on inspection. I was livid about it happening but was also lucid enough about my rage to try and weaponize it

Mmm I like that phrase, ill be taking it

did you learn anything from it? I guess you probably would've mentioned but still. it was a good idea at least!

I tried to during the night phase but I think my TR on you is the best you’ll see out of that endeavor.

[Gamma Emerald]

I just realised I considered the fact it's not distancing but then provided arguments for why it could be distancing.

It could be distancing.

+town for tea leaves

[Gamma Emerald]

I will be seriously displeased if it's that

[Gamma Emerald]

could see Bell+Ydrasse. Voting together like this would be weird, but I don't know where else scum!Bell pivots to other than bussing her.

wdym

[Gamma Emerald]

could see Bell+Ydrasse. Voting together like this would be weird, but I don't know where else scum!Bell pivots to other than bussing her.

wdym

Like, where does Bell vote other than Guilty if he's partners with Ydrasse? He can't exactly pivot to me given him townreading me.

this is for this day phase right

[Gamma Emerald]

I am bound to no such demands

[Gamma Emerald]

ok

[Gamma Emerald]

how many people are in this tic tac toe rn

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm down to do a 4p tic tac toe in a fresh 5x5 grid, maybe a bigger one just so more options exist

[Gamma Emerald]

_	_	_	_	_
_	X	_	_	_
_	_	_	_	_
_	_	_	_	_
_	_	_	_	_

underscores will mark untaken squares, players are not locked to X and O, they may use whatever character as long as it's distinct from what others are already using (I just used X because it's a clear marker versus something weird that might confuse people)

[Gamma Emerald]

I expected 4 players when I did a 5x5, so someone might have to sit this one out

[Gamma Emerald]

how is game lost at that point

[Gamma Emerald]

We should definitely look at how the wagon on me formed /how the Ydrasse wagon dissolved

[Gamma Emerald]

Bell can you expand on your paranoia around the time you voted me? I want to understand some of the inner mechanisms of how those votes moved.

[Gamma Emerald]

Bell can you answer my question? Even a simple “I don’t remember” is fine.

[Gamma Emerald]

has anyone ever rolled a radarcowbells rand where he's always in the scum pt telling the mod "don't count me as confirmed for the game yet I need my pregame playbooking" and there's like 2 pockets and a bus planned by noon

Huh???

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t know what that means?

[Gamma Emerald]

Once iirc, don’t think he did that

[Gamma Emerald]

Has the game been solved yet

Btw I’ve been deliberately not posting, looks like Dann’s not holding stumps to prod rules

[Gamma Emerald]

What
Whose signature was it that mentions PR dreams

[Gamma Emerald]

Does anyone have the needed context to know what Datisi’s PR dreams actually mean

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma I feel as though you haven't helped us solve

My focus on a given game drops a ton if my ability to do things is warped
like there was a MBoS game where I got randed this stupid third party that had to manipulate the game from the shadows to win, and I couldn't post, and I just never got into it at all, I needed to have the game spoonfed to me
That's also why I struggle with hydra games, I have to log in to a different account and also have to work with someone else in a way that kina supresses my ability to play my way

But like, why comment this? I'm flipped stump bro

[Gamma Emerald]

do you not think GL's effort counts?

[Gamma Emerald]

Something_Smart's avatar is a Ditto that used the transform ability to copy the stats, moveset, and appearance of an Azelf. Nickname votes would be "Ditto" or "S_S", but "Azelf" is clearly not a vote for that user.

eye would be wrong

[Gamma Emerald]

There is a entire game series called pokemon based on this concept

nah normal is a hidden threat
Think about how hard Whitney is

[Gamma Emerald]

I had no trouble with whitney but I think my team was something weird

iirc she isn't as hard in the remakes
But like every Normal Gym Leader to my knowledge is actually a challenge, barring Cheren maybe, that just because of limited options that he is hard if it all

[Gamma Emerald]

Welp

[Gamma Emerald]

I like to think my death catalyzed our win?
Probably not though.

[Gamma Emerald]

But it sounds like you've determined that this exact rhythm is unfun by playing a similar setup if larger eLo's feel bad.

I do want to point out that there is still a difference other than "nightless with a bigger elo" even without stumps and FF:

I think the main issue in such a setup is that scum's best strategy is simply always to never ignite until they've won the game. It's not so much Double Day as it is town getting no new information except for their own eliminations. I do like the difference of the strategical element behind chopping doused slots, but I feel that adds another element of frustration for town where they then have to guess at which slots they've exiled that are doused and then when eLo actually is becomes an uncertainty.

Granted, the forest fire setup I played in I was snowed by an RC/Ankamius scum team so that may have contributed to my frustration with the setup.

You were also in the one where I replaced RC iirc