Open 791 | Forest Fire | Game Over

[tea leaves]

Reason being scum!Morning takes great care in what she writes. I think scum!her sees how that can be interpreted as a scumslip (I am evolving if you are town because I am scum this game and half town-slipped) while town!her writes whatever.

[tea leaves]

VOTE: GuiltyLion

[tea leaves]

What if someone else is scum, Isis

[tea leaves]

Hang on a minute here. Has a player ever successfully deepwolfed their way into being the mod of a game before? Like, does anyone actually remember Dannflor being the mod from the start of this game? What if he started out as a player but then became the mod after he deepwolfed hard enough, and we can't remember because it didn't feel like we had to work out his alignment at the start because he was obvtown (but he's actually a deepwolf).

I think I just solved this game. Never again, Dann.
VOTE: Dannflor

[tea leaves]

tea leaves how did my malicious scheming in Nightmare Mafia integrate into your townread of me in this game

Yes, you seemed different but I can't remember specifics right now.

Did my scheming not affect your read on me at all? (Asked you previously and you called my avatar ugly which I take great offence to and will be blacklisting you for on the tea leaves account after this game is done).

[tea leaves]

Hum

[tea leaves]

Yep, I think I'm playing fairly differently to Nightmare imo. A lot of disjointed thoughts and progressions where in Nightmare I tried to stay consistent.

[tea leaves]

Are you city?

[tea leaves]

Is that Pandora, Loki, or Miso? They look very surprised at your question.

[tea leaves]

Am I supposed to think Isis is town now because the cat pics are being posted in-thread instead of the scum PT? HmM

[tea leaves]

Why did you take the slot if you thought it was scum though

[tea leaves]

The universe where I vote tealeaves is probably in Elo.

ok
so
talk to me about this
do you think tweet vs. tea is tvt or svt

because i don't usually like to do the tvt or svt thing but i have a feeling of svt

and it's because they are both really confident in the punches they are throwing. not only in their reads on eachother but like the way they are contradicting eachtoher?

and when the confidence level is high it becomes less likely both are wrong vs. one is scum, scumwrong

But I reconsidered almost immediately. I'm very unsure in it now.

[tea leaves]

Is this the first time you've ever tunneled someone, Morning? I'm honoured if it is.

[tea leaves]

Greetings

[tea leaves]

Thanks for the heads up. Uninstalling my alarm clock app now.

[tea leaves]

Do you think I'm scum for reasons outside of Ydrasse-ruling out stuff and not correctly calling you town?

[tea leaves]

I now think Morning is obvtown lol

My push was clearly needed to draw this towny reaction so gonna call my tunnel-induce calculated

[tea leaves]

hectic do you want to read me consistently one day

or is it more magical if i'm mysterious

Oo I do want to read you more consistently some day. Maybe if I find something that you do as town half the time but never as scum. That would be ideal.

[tea leaves]

I think it's Hobbes but if not, probably Bell.

[tea leaves]

VOTE: guiltylion

ty for the well wishes today guys <3

Let's talk about this vote again.

It puts Hobbes on L-1 and Ydrasse hasn't posted content in a while. It looks very opportunistic and scummy.
As scum, this is pretty unideal for Ydrasse.

BUT, if Hobbes is also scum. Then scum!Ydrasse is in the mindset of "oh one of us is getting launched today anyway, who cares" or could be thinking "how could they think I'm scummy for this vote? It's on scum."

[tea leaves]

But self-meta is so valuable for you two read me in future games. Maybe my philosophy should be to play every mafia game like it's the last though?

Biggest indicator I want to give you is that as scum I feel the need to be relatively consistent and have quite unchanging reads. My progressions are gradual and you can see how stuff is changing, albeit very gradually. You can see this in Your Nightmare, or my Replacement for Sujimichi game off the top of my head.

Here I have multiple sharp turns in reads and progressions all over the place.

[tea leaves]

*to

[tea leaves]

Examples being thinking Farren was scum to the then placing him as top 1 or 2 townread. Also, thinking Ydrasse town to placing her as bottom scumread. Thinking you were scum and now thinking you're probably my first or second highest townread.

My read on Bell has moved a little less, but I was townreading Bell a lot more early on, but it might have been a consequence of him defending me while a lot of people thought I was scum.

Isis and GuiltyLion are mostly unchanged.

[tea leaves]

@tealeaves, why GL>Bell? And not GL >IS >Mt > You > farren.

Why am I in this list lol

I get some pings from you in the way you were reading me as town. You mentioned earlier that you would probably never be voting me this game, but then clarified that to mean you might vote me if it ever came to LyLo - however, that's tomorrow if we mislaunch today.

[tea leaves]

That depends on who's primed but I doubt town!Hobbes would be.

[tea leaves]

Arsonists are actually really nice people and I'm quite sad that we've resorted to hunting them down in this fashion. It's freezing cold out there at night. They need logs and a campfire, all they want is some warmth! We're monsters.

[tea leaves]

I didn't get your answer, Bell, so I had to talk about my love for Arsonists instead.

[tea leaves]

I've read some really old games with Glork and he seemed like a great guy. Playing every mafia game like it's your last isn't a bad philosophy at all and actively forces people to improve at their scumgame.

[tea leaves]

I haven't played Mario Tennis #.#
Had you talked to me about Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games I'd be giving you essays on optimal javelin throw strats

[tea leaves]

Huh, it's so strange that my view of Isis is pretty UTR-ey for the most part, but she's actually 3 separate player's top scumreads. I wonder if I'm throwing.

[tea leaves]

I haven't played Mario Tennis #.#
Had you talked to me about Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games I'd be giving you essays on optimal javelin throw strats

kthat game like review 2/10 stars or something awful

if you want me to play it, i will mail you a disc for sonic 2006, you can mail me the similarly awful game in exchange

I'll mail you Shadow the Hedgehog. Look, I know guns in a Sonic game is unusual but the game has like 16! different endings. You're basically playing real life at that point.

[tea leaves]

But self-meta is so valuable for you two read me in future games. Maybe my philosophy should be to play every mafia game like it's the last though?

Biggest indicator I want to give you is that as scum I feel the need to be relatively consistent and have quite unchanging reads. My progressions are gradual and you can see how stuff is changing, albeit very gradually. You can see this in Your Nightmare, or my Replacement for Sujimichi game off the top of my head.

Here I have multiple sharp turns in reads and progressions all over the place.

haha i just say exactly how it is and give every reason i can think of as to why it's so obvious to me that im not scum in every single game

I would literally hand people the key to solving me if necessary

it sounds like something that would negatively impact my scum game but I haven't really had a chance to find out. maybe it would. or maybe i figure something out. unsure

Why is it obvious you're not scum in this game?? I think it forces people to improve and adapt their town-meta into their scumgame, so I think it's actually a good thing for improving it.

Also, did my self-meta sway you at all?

[tea leaves]

Morning is town because of the emotion and WIM from my push and genuine interest in trying to solve this puzzle. Her constantly delving into ISOs and Ydrasse interactions look more genuine than performative. Also, OMGUSing me is a pretty losing play since I stick around as a treestump, and scum!her probably doesn't think I change my read after being pushed back from her. I think she'd try and change my mind in a more subtle way.

[tea leaves]

Tbh 2150 is giving me some doubts on Guilty being scum.. that is a LOT of distancing if that's what it is.

[tea leaves]

What are you concluding from that post, Morning? You think it's all genuine and Guilty is town?

[tea leaves]

Wait, Dann is in this game???

Guys, let's Occam's Razor this.

1) Is Dann still alive and has survived multiple nights? If no, move to 2). If yes, move to 3)
2) Dann is dead and is town.
3) Dann is deepwolfing.

VOTE: Dannflor

[tea leaves]

Uh oh

Will have to utilise all of the solving power for tomorrow then

[tea leaves]

VOTE: tea leaves

Why you back on me, Isis?

[tea leaves]

I think it's Hobbes but if not, probably Bell.

i'm just gonna be hardpocketed here

I thought you were with me here

[tea leaves]

Whether or not scum could talk during pregame actually makes a big difference for me. I can see Ydrasse telling Hobbes to bus her, but if there was none, I agree that it seems a little odd for Hobbes to be bussing her so much considering she's relatively new.

[tea leaves]

Your excitement case is bamboozling to me, Farren. There's only so much you can read from 3 exclamation marks; you're extrapolating a tad much there.

[tea leaves]

I once played against scum!Radiant as Eve. He hard pocketed me and I hammered wrongly in LyLo...

[tea leaves]

my main thing with tea leaves is I don't believe he townreads me

It's a souuul read. Not much different to the reasons you've been giving for me being scum

[tea leaves]

Apparently I'm not being paranoid enough.

PEdit> Are you saying you were not excited there, tea leaves?
...
more PEdits later ...

Uh, I guess I added the exclamation marks because I was trying to convince Ydrasse to join the wagon and she was currently on me? I wasn't in a very "excited state" as you're reading it

[tea leaves]

What does it say about a day where you find yourself doing a search for "!!!" in someone's ISO?

We have:

Ydrasse's flip on you is weird.
The above.
Wishing Ydrasse a happy birthday.

Everything else is quotes, which don't count.

Was trying to figure out if you just use a bunch of !s all over the place and I just didn't notice. Doesn't look like it.

Wait, what's the case on wishing Ydrasse Happy Birthday?

Ydrasse's flip on me implies I'm town. She voted me with intent to get my wagon through. She was the 3rd vote and it was on me rather than other viable wagons like Gamma.

[tea leaves]

Yeah, it might be a TMI scumread on her since he doesn't think his push will actually go through. Iirc, Morning, I and maybe others really liked her as town back then.

I don't want to move my vote off Hobbes when he's made basically no posts today though.

[tea leaves]

I see!!! You're read far too much into it, Farren!!! It's very easy to add exclamation marks which completely changes the tone of a post when in reality you might not be that excited!!!!!!

[tea leaves]

Hobbes's absence is very scum-indicative. As town, he's a lot more invested and not uncommonly top 2/3 poster. As scum, he posts far less.

[tea leaves]

You don't think my reasons make sense?
As far as I can remember, the ones I've said are:
-Genuine frustration at me "townslipping" when clidd was your biggest scumlead
-The going back and forth on me like there's real thought behind that read
-Unvoting Ydrasse instead of remaining on her when it was clear she would be the elim

Other reasons I guess I could spew:
-The nonstop paranoia with regards to Farren's alignment
-Pushing me earlier today when I'm the only person townreading you

[tea leaves]

Are you trying to make a point by doing that now? Or are you trying to convey that you are agitated?

Make a point lol

I'm not agitated at all

[tea leaves]

Okay, next time I'll use a Waluigi avatar to make it obvious to you I'm me.

[tea leaves]

Hobbes's absence is very scum-indicative. As town, he's a lot more invested and not uncommonly top 2/3 poster. As scum, he posts far less.

He dropped out of Newbie 2024, after being prodded repeatedly. He was Town in that game. That was recent - game wrapped up about a week ago, and he left in D3.

He hasn't posted anywhere on-site since Tuesday. Based on both those facts, I'd say his absence is NAI.

Oh, interesting. This is very good to know.

[tea leaves]

I'm gonna look at how exactly Bell progressed on Ydrasse, because if he started by calling her lockscum but then pivoted to a higher read as soon as she actually started receiving heat, that's incredibly scum-indicative. In a bit though.

[tea leaves]

Just to be clear: these are reasons why you scumread (or don't townread) Isis? Losing track of the threads here.

Reasons I townread her.

[tea leaves]

Looks like scum theatre to me

[tea leaves]

Reverse psychology doesn't work on me. I'm locking in conspiracy

[tea leaves]

You got some conspiracy level reads, Farren. I like them.

[tea leaves]

Aight, trying to learn from my past mistakes here. Hopefully I don't come off as too obnoxious.



Leave the Tea Leaves alone.

Triple ISOing Bell/Ydrasse/Dannflor right now and stuff like this makes me feel bad for turning this direction grumble grumble

[tea leaves]

Case: To put it as simply as possible. Ydrasse is self-narrating, watching and waiting, pocketing Isis in a way that is confusing because Isis should know he's being pocketed.
And a bunch of other minor things.

Think of it as the replace in perspective. To me Ydrasse looks like obvious scum. (inb4 she flips town). But I think my read is quite serious. I'm fine with ending the day now on that elimination and I can case if I want and I don't think Ydrasse could do much to change my mind on their slot because they made too many posts that ping to me.

Thinking you're scum £_£

[tea leaves]

whoops, ignore those

[tea leaves]

1027 to 1090 interactions between Ydrasse/Bell are pretty natural. That said, these are scum-indivative I think because it's a little strange for Bell to narrate about Ydrasse like this while talking to her, like there's intent to give a certain impression to others who will read this interaction.

I'm just confused what town or scum Ydrasse gains out of a vote RN.

A better player would be able to put together the pieces here and make a decision on Ydrasse's alignment from this interaction.

will you take care of my stump, bell? make sure it's pretty? ghosts can't take care of their stumps.

This is scummy no matter which color she flips.

^^ Sometimes when people say this, it's just scum tho.

[tea leaves]

I understand now why Lion is guilty.

VOTECOUNT 1.7

Burned Out

[3] Ydrasse :

Bell, GuiltyLion, Gamma Emerald

[2] tea leaves :

Farren, Isis

[1] Gamma Emerald :

Dunnstral

[1] Dunnstral :

tea leaves

[1] GuiltyLion :

Ydrasse

[1] Not Voting :

Morning Tweet

With 9 in play, it takes 5 votes to exile.

The Day 1 deadline is in: (expired on 2020-08-28 01:03:10)

ugh

VOTE: tea leaves

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Here it is. This is baffling to me, Bell. Gamma was always null to you before this point, while Ydrasse was an incredibly confident scumread. Why in the world did you switch from Ydrasse when she was the leading wagon? 1117 actually kinda looks like you're setting up to pivot from Ydrasse to Hobbes, but then don't get the chance because no one else bites on that wagon.

[tea leaves]

Actually I do that as town and can bring up a game where I did just that.

Sure! That'd be helpful.

[tea leaves]

Besides Ydrasse I think she did stick up for you.
It seemed kind of negative toward her win condition. For her, one of the reasons I switched my vote to you was because she was cutting herself off from a wagon that she didn't need to cut herself off from as scum.
Then again maybe it was a soft defense and she just recognized the game state better. *Thinks*

I don't get this. She voted the next competing wagon which was me putting me to 3 votes. How was that cutting herself off from a wagon and towny in any way?

[tea leaves]

I’m on my phone. Can we skip to the part where I wouldn’t lie about something easily verifiable.

Yeah, fine, that bit's not really important anyway. I'm more interested in the Ydrasse stuff.

[tea leaves]

There was telegraphed interest in your wagon when Ydrasse defended you as aimless town.
If Tea Leaves wagon didn't work out, she seemed the next on the chopping block. At least in my view. So not saying "Maybe, Gamma could be scum!" as a second viable wagon would be against her win condition.

This is a really roundabout way to call her town... like, she voted her biggest counterwagon and called someone who

might

be wagoned instead town, so that's towny? That's just regular scum play, Bello, voting your counterwagon out of survivalism and calling someone else town.

[tea leaves]

I know, but Ydrasse calling Gamma town while voting her biggest counterwagon (which is the main thing) isn't towny.

[tea leaves]

The reasoning is in the post where I put out that if tealeaves wagon fell apart, she would be fucked.

I get that's what you're saying, but that's

if

it falls apart. The most important thing for scum!Ydrasse to do there is to vote the next biggest wagon (me). There's many, many reasons scum!Ydrasse could be calling Gamma town there. Maybe she's just fabricating what she thinks is a reasonable read, maybe she's trying to get Gamma off her wagon etc. It looks to me like you exaggerated the significance of that to better justify calling Ydrasse town there.

Was there any other reason you opted to vote for Gamma (a prior stated nullread) over Ydrasse (someone you'd given many reasons for being scum)?

[tea leaves]

VOTE: Bell
I'm sorry, but I think you're scum <3

[tea leaves]

I waffled.
That's pretty much the reason.

What's pretty much the reason?
Being friendly doesn't reflect on alignment.

[tea leaves]

What's the data?

[tea leaves]

Seriously though, please don't partner me with Ydrasse, it's insulting. If I was scum this game, I would never have been able to pull that off with Ydrasse scum.
At least partner me with someone that makes sense.
Like tealeaves.

Yeaaah, about this... I don't get why you'd be "insulted" that you were partnered with Ydrasse if you don't think scum!you is good enough to pull that off. Isn't that a compliment rather than an insult?

[tea leaves]

I don’t know what to say to that when there’s data that liars irl, tend to be relatively negative in their speech patterns which makes it hard to sound friendly.

That isn't the case for forum mafia though. Scum are just generally less antagonistic and want to stay in everyone's good books.

[tea leaves]

I'm not mafia but I might be a fiddle that Hectic is playing a jig with

Hey, I can still be town while doing that surely

[tea leaves]

What do you reckon, Morning?

[tea leaves]

There is also no day chat for the scum team. Which means I had no means of asking for permission from her to push at her.

Which would explain why you switched off her when it looked like she might go through and didn't commit to launching her. HMMM

[tea leaves]

There is also no day chat for the scum team. Which means I had no means of asking for permission from her to push at her.

Which would explain why you switched off her when it looked like she might go through and didn't commit to launching her. HMMM

Could you explain what you mean by this?

You didn't go through with launching her because you couldn't ask her if she was alright with it.

[tea leaves]

I'm not mafia but I might be a fiddle that Hectic is playing a jig with

Hey, I can still be town while doing that surely

remember that time were both scum
but still I pockitted you with dioramas?

Made it a lot easier to townread you when I was pocatted. Those are the kind of optimal strats most scumteams are missing out on.

[tea leaves]

Moooooooooorning, do you believe Bell's reasons for switching off Ydrasse? He's already explained everything the best he can, so I want to hear a stance from you on it.

[tea leaves]

2281 is fine on theory and all, but are you suggesting you were pressuring Ydrasse without suspecting her? Because that isn't true at all from all the reasons you were dishing out, and so I'm unsure what you're trying to prove from that post. I think you were distancing while she was reasonably townread and then backed off without any given reasoning on why when it looked like her launch might actually go through.

I'm surprised Morning is still voting for me tbh

[tea leaves]

isis, could you word that question differently.
I’m not bus adverse, but there needs to be some advantage and i’m cautious about it when I do.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=83774

^ i bussed both partners in this game.
But read the mafia PT.

Uh, your best example for you being bus averse is linking a game where you bussed both your partners? I'm not going to read the whole mafia PT so you could you explain why it helps your case?

[tea leaves]

I see. I got averse and averses mixed up.

[tea leaves]

Hobbes and I definitely aren't doused.

Any 2 in [Isis, Bell, Morning, Farren] I could see? Isis slightly less likely because she was being FoSed by many EoD yesterday.

[tea leaves]

I thought you were saying you wouldn't enter the game bussing Ydrasse because you're bus averse, and then linked a game showing you're bus averse, but it's actually a game where you bussed two partners. I realised my error afterwards.

[tea leaves]

I'm a lot less confident on this than I was just yesterday...

[tea leaves]

VOTE: Morning

You're being really non-committal. Like, saying you might be swayed by my self-meta, or you're not sure about Bell's responses, and throwing out a lot of info of events, but not very much analysis. Do something with your research!

[tea leaves]

lol

It's me pressuring Morning to do stuff because I don't like how she's dropped off and not made many conclusions since I completely switched on her.

[tea leaves]

I'm really not. I'm just playing without a filter.

[tea leaves]

Well, I'll still be around as a stump if I'm launched so I won't truly be gone

[tea leaves]

Think about what I've been doing today, Isis. I've pushed Morning, Hobbes, and Bell all as scum. I'm making enemies left, right, and centre, and have no regard for keeping bridges intact. Like, I am totally aware that town are likely to OMGUS and feel worse about people pushing them. You think scum!me sets out with this approach today?

I probably play it safe and just continue pushing Hobbes today.

[tea leaves]

YOU ARE FORGIVEN

[tea leaves]

Believe in the me that believes in the you that believes in the me that believes in the you

[tea leaves]

Farren's probably my top townread now. I like all his solving and the conspiracy theories are +town.

[tea leaves]

You're both townreads. I don't want to think about who I'd put higher without looking you both over again, which doesn't seem needed.

[tea leaves]

Sure, but Farren has an older join date than you. He just gives off cool seasoned veteran vibes

[tea leaves]

Maybe... I liked him a lot better for scum before I realised his disinterest was NAI.

That's another town point for Farren btw, seeking that out and bringing to the table.

[tea leaves]

You're so toxik. get in cue for my blacklist

[tea leaves]

The Eevee evolved while it was still a baby. What, you some kind of Pokémon expert now?

[tea leaves]

I'm feeling really attacked right now and I think we should policy Isis to remove this toxicity from the game. My vote isn't changing until Isis or I is dead.

VOTE: IsisVOTE:

[tea leaves]

Don't worry about me, everyone. I will withstand this brutal attack.

[tea leaves]

[tea leaves]

Exactly, that's what I'd be doing if I was scum and not pushing randomly and being all over the place!!!

[tea leaves]

I am very excited right now, Farren!!!

[tea leaves]

Why would it be? I'm giving reasons which Morning should be responding to and will hopefully make her alignment clearer.

Remind me what the roadmap is?

[tea leaves]

I don't

have

to give reasons but giving reasons would explain my thought process which is just in general good practice and something I always try and do, and will give her soemthing to respond to. I don't understand this point.

I am definitely not deliberate and calculated scum this game, I would've faked so many random pushes and progressions and for what? To make some enemies and power my standing? That kind if effort could be put do far better use by continuing to push Hobbes while rationally and reasonably commenting on other things (which is what I tried to do in Nightmare while pushing for George).

[tea leaves]

*To make some enemies and LOWER my standing

[tea leaves]

In fact, when's the last time you even saw me vote someone with no comment on why?

Pedit: I just think you're town which is why I'm trying to talk you down like this

[tea leaves]

Being tocix is so much fun though. No idea why I haven't been banned yet lol

[tea leaves]

Sigh. I think we've probably gone too far in this toxic 1v1. Dann's probably gonna force replace both of us, and honestly, I don't blame him. I'm rooting for Kanna and Auro to replace us.

[tea leaves]

The toxicity? That's pretty weird

[tea leaves]

Why would you douse Hobbes?

[tea leaves]

I thought you'd have more comments to make on everything I was saying on Bell.

Looks like Hobbes is being replaced now.

[tea leaves]

This is hilarious. I'm having so much fun this game

[tea leaves]

I wasn't scumreading you, it was a pressure vote to get you to say more stuff. I still townread you at the time of that post just fyi

[tea leaves]

VOTE: Hobbes

[tea leaves]

Help! Help! I'm being BoPed!

I'm not even that good at scum. Check my last scumgame (Your Nightmare), Morning and see the stark contrast of my play. Seriously, I'm obvtown here if you compare it to my play there.

[tea leaves]

I didn't even realise Isis was trying to get me hammered in that moment. Maybe I should give her a proper reread.

UNVOTE:

[tea leaves]

Also, Morning, I think you're focusing on finding scum far too much from just looking at who was pushing and interacting with Ydrasse. Associations is helpful, but look at how individually towny/scummy people are too. If you're seeing a lot of towny things from me, that just means I'm town and not some kind of scum behemoth.

[tea leaves]

viewtopic.php?t=84005&f=83&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

[tea leaves]

I didn't have this kind of WIM in those games though, Isis. Once you scumread me, our interactions were fairly brief.

Morning, did you have a look at the Nightmare game I linked?

[tea leaves]

?_?

[tea leaves]

Just skim it for like 5 minutes, I'm not asking you to do a full read of it or anything. The contrast is blinding. I know being proved wrong on a scumread can hurt, but we gotta face our fears etc etc

[tea leaves]

That's some interesting theory though, Isis. I know Ank was huge on that, like the Blake Belladonna account was solely focused on acting 100% confident on scumreads and just getting people to sheep them. She was pretty successful.

[tea leaves]

I love the playerlist and dynamic for this game. My ideal game is one where I can just say whatever I want and not have to be wary of any toxicity/rage fights happening elsewhere. Also, I guess I just have a general distaste for "harsh" players. The ones that always push back really hard and aggressively when you suspect them, which is actually +wincon for them regardless of alignment, but just often leads to kind of unpleasant interactions and gamestates. RC made an article about it recenlty. This game lacks any of those, and I feel I can just voice my suspicions freely without being bitten or anything.

[tea leaves]

Ignoring your toxic attack on me earlier ofc. I'm pretending that didn't happen in the hopes Dann hasn't noticed and won't force replace us.

[tea leaves]

That's some interesting theory though, Isis. I know Ank was huge on that, like the Blake Belladonna account was solely focused on acting 100% confident on scumreads and just getting people to sheep them. She was pretty successful.

Ank said Blake Belladonna was a failed experiment and retired the account. She said she came up with exception type reasons to play the account one or two more times.
I think the point of the Blake Belladonna confidence stuff was expressing her alignment a certain way and not using doubts as a gamepiece in playing the dayplay, not an actual tool for maximizing the frequency with which she got her preferred wagon.
I think emphasizing one's own certainty is not actually a key to persuasion, especially contrasted with how much it seems to be.

anyway
I definitely want to run interference if anyone says I view mafia similar to how Alyssa does.
I'm pretty sure we're from different planets

Oh, IC, I didn't know that.

I did find her varying playstyles across her alts really interesting.

[tea leaves]

Hectic is your WIM higher as town or scum

your wim for this game seems too high
it's just a dannflor micro
idk i've enjoyed it but i haven't felt like it's engendered WIM? this game has only seemed interesting when i've been nightphased/dead other games and i want to project that other people should be as apathetic as I am if they share my alignment. Farren gets lots of pass cause i'm pretty sure he's only aive in this game. Morning Tweet is obvtowning by caring about her education and livelihood more than this game, which is really a bridge too far I try to put even my boringest mafia games ahead of my livelihood

I am actively avoiding reading the first 4 books of the Odyssey as well doing an english paper atm in favour of reading Your Nightmare

Hectic and I agree that you should abandon reading Your Nightmare in order to play Mario Odyssey.

+1

I respect the commitment to reading books on strategies before playing the game btw. Power to you, Morning.

[tea leaves]

RC is one of the people who plays mafia that way the most. Don't think that makes him hypocritical for writing an article tho it's kind of like, i strategically foul 3 pt shots but I would love some consistency on how refs police intentional 3 pt foul shots, or whatever
it's a broad topic

uh maybe you're not looking forward to meeting LLD the way you think you are lol

Yeah, honestly, I find RC really interesting but I've never been a huge fan of the way he plays. I didn't realise LLD was the same way %_%

[tea leaves]

Yshtola was really interesting, I miss yshtola

Y'shtola was my favourite! Funny that Ank mentioned it was basically her troll alt, but the RP combined with the way she cryptically explained her reads was amazing.

[tea leaves]

So it seems like you managed to keep the entire game in your PoE (even some paranoia posts towards Dann who was your #1/#2 townread). You also buddied Isis really hard.

it is also probably fair to note that your order of players in your reads didnt change much, especially the upper half

Really? I recall not expressing a scumread on anyone other than George for the entirety of D2. I just made some comments on the others but didn't really call anyone scum for any reasons. Paranoiey jokey posts are different imo.

The main contrast there though is the level of my thoughts and solving compared to here.

[tea leaves]

Yshtola was really interesting, I miss yshtola

Y'shtola was my favourite! Funny that Ank mentioned it was basically her troll alt, but the RP combined with the way she cryptically explained her reads was amazing.

should Lash try to play until she rolls town, or would that be an abomination no one deserves to endure

leaning the latter

Do it. I'll even RP The Beast whenever I interact with her.

[tea leaves]

I'd expect nothing less from you.

What does delta mean there?

[tea leaves]

I just scoured Isis's ISO to find a post I could be toxic towards but couldn't think of anything. I'm so bad at this.

Delta in a good way or a bad way?

[tea leaves]

It doesn't look like we're getting a replacement for a few weeks yet btw, so get comfy and I sincerely hope the scummo is prepared to continue lying for quite some time yet. This is +EV for town...right? I should check the winrate for the masochist mafia games.

[tea leaves]

I asked Firebringer to add me to the replacement cue for the current game like a half a year ago, but he forgot and posted a request in the replacement thread and got someone else. Fitting, I guess.

[tea leaves]

Igmeou.

I didn't realise Puzzles and Dragons even ripped off of your cat, Isis. You should really get in touch with a lawyer about name and image rights.

[tea leaves]

Why are we flippity flopping on GL

Basically just waiting for the rep in at this point.

I like the new avatar as well btw.

[tea leaves]

I'm currently at Hobbes or Bell as last scummo ftr.

[tea leaves]

I'm currently at Hobbes or Bell as last scummo ftr.

If I said I want to BoP you and you only get one, which would you pick?

Can't I wait until Hobbes's replacement comes in?

...my leafy heart is telling me Bell.

[tea leaves]

It used to be the canon art for school kid Isis, it's fanart now, she does happen to face a different way. I should reverse it.

Hectic made it for me

She's facing to the left, but

looking

to the right. Depends on whether you want to give an engaged or too cool to look at your posts vibe.

[tea leaves]

...my leafy heart is telling me Bell.

Mainly because strongly scumreading Ydrasse and then turning around on her when she looked viable is still the most scum-indicative thing that's happened.

Yet... his tone and self-meta feels genuine, so I certainly wouldn't bet the game on it right now.

[tea leaves]

@tea leaves are you sure that’s the most scum indicative thing that’s happened.

What is in your opinion?

[tea leaves]

It always looks trippy at first when you flip an image after being used to the previous variant. You need to let it really soak in before you can make a decision, Dunny.

[tea leaves]

~Not~ something town did.

It can still be scum-indicative or something scum is more likely to do, despite it coming from town.

[tea leaves]

My brain leaves checked out

[tea leaves]

Nice, so I'm not crazy then.

Bell, would you say that's an accurate representation of what you did that game?

[tea leaves]

Did he follow through with the bus till the end, or lay off?

[tea leaves]

Okay, so I read through it myself and Bell pushed both of his partners (Starbuck and Porkens), but then got martyred killed before the end of the day so it's unclear whether or not he would've followed through with it if they got close to being launched.

BUT THEN, I read through the scum PT, aaand:

Subject: [Demon]Mini Theme 2155: SIN: This Impurity must be Cleansed!

I think I kind of put you too much on the grill there.
How do you prefer to play with your mafia partners?

Subject: [Demon]Mini Theme 2155: SIN: This Impurity must be Cleansed!

^don’t respond to this. I’m not the elimination today. We can discuss it later tonight.
For now focus on surviving.

Subject: [Demon]Mini Theme 2155: SIN: This Impurity must be Cleansed!

I wouldn't scum read you, but I might pretend too, to get a better read on you via pressure.
will do.

The third post is especially damning. What he said he planned to do there is what he's done with Ydrasse here.

VOTE: Bell

I should stop letting myself be convinced off of my tunnels.

[tea leaves]

I think tea leaves rolled scum this game

2616 seems kind of inductive
I don't like that he's more confident about this than I am
confidently stating an element of his personality is really unsettling from Bell. I feel like there are sturdy ways to scumread his play for its independent aspects but like ignoring him saying "I don't cruelly bus partners if I don't have private communication" it can be correct to power through but how can it ever feel good to power through?
This game is rough

I had a feeling you would dislike that lol

It's reaffirming my previous reasons for thinking it was Bell. I believe Ydrasse could've mentioned pregame that she's okay with being bussed which wouldn't make it cruel, and it's not cruel anyway if it scum!Bell doesn't plan on following through with it, but just using it as a tool to distance.

[tea leaves]

How can you be so confident on Bell-town?

[tea leaves]

I too share the sentiment that Pine/Ydrasse were unlikely to talk about bussing pregame

Fair. This is all I could find on Ydrasse's opinions on bussing/distancing in scum PTs:

Subject: Newbie 2012 - Mafia Thread

...so hopefully this early pressure dissipates on you but if it doesn’t i might end up trying to bus you a bit for distance. but hopefully i can approach this as i would as town and end up having srs on others that seem more valid.

She did get launched day 1 in her last scum game though, and her buddy didn't bus, so i don't think it's out of the question she enters this game and says she's okay with it in pregame chat.

[tea leaves]

Feels right

openwolfing

[tea leaves]

Remember when you cleared Not_Mafia because he hammered Phyyra Nikos out of the blue, Morning? Scum will do what's unexpected because it's exactly that; unexpected.

[tea leaves]

I'm actually feeling a lot better about this read now, and wouldn't even mind too much if I was stumped today. Still want to wait for Hobbes's replacement though.

[tea leaves]

That's a good point lol

[tea leaves]

Link me the significant pieces of information please, Bell.

[tea leaves]

Oh, interesting. Guess I'll have to go and see what the game's opinions on Starbuck/Porkens were when you entered.

Will do that tomorrow.

[tea leaves]

A little bit of that and also i thought NM was calling our most townie player obvscum in an attempt to keep him alive longer. Silly me for thinking there was logic behind his actions

That would be Sinnoh region brain if that's what he was doing tbf

[tea leaves]

The game is currently a jigsaw puzzle, Gamma.

[tea leaves]

I was lazy today. I'll do the meta check on Bell before deadline tomorrow. Will want to go Azelf probably if he's telling the truth.

[tea leaves]

How’s the guiltylion reread going @MT/Farren.
How’s the meta read going on me. @farren/Tea leaves.

My hopes are not high that I can change tea leaves mind.

i sort of already made up my mind on guilty but i guess it wouldnt hurt to do that later

changing tea leaves' mind is unnecessary, as they are an arsonist

Out of interest, how shocked would you be if I flipped Tree? I've never seen you so confident on a scumread before.

[tea leaves]

Briefly

I'm uh not gonna read 108 pages.

I'll probably end up reading from the beginning of the day. Are there any other important parts I should read?

The way people have interacted with or pushed Ydrasse (flipped arsonist) has made up a large part of the discussion of this game. You'll basically get all you need if you manage to read from the start of day 3.

[tea leaves]

Azelf was always my favourite of the cave legendaries.

[tea leaves]

How’s the guiltylion reread going @MT/Farren.
How’s the meta read going on me. @farren/Tea leaves.

My hopes are not high that I can change tea leaves mind.

i sort of already made up my mind on guilty but i guess it wouldnt hurt to do that later

changing tea leaves' mind is unnecessary, as they are an arsonist

Out of interest, how shocked would you be if I flipped Tree? I've never seen you so confident on a scumread before.

i dont know who else it would be (-ω-；)

Not terribly shocked because i am not exactly a good reader of ppl. It is possible the arsonist committed some kind of act that made me turn a blindside towards them, yeah

I looked over Guilty again. Seriously dont think it's him

Aww, I wanted you to say "very shocked".

[tea leaves]

I'd be willing to compromise on Gamma today.

[tea leaves]

VC 2.0

Not Voting (10): NorwegianboyEE, Bell, androgybee, Dumb and Dumber, Jackel98, redtea, catboi, Starbuck, BananaCucho, Porkens

Deadline is in (expired on 2020-08-11 21:00:00)
aa
With 10 players alive, it takes 6 to eliminate

RIP Joey

And the Saintess too I guess

Anyone else get corruption last night? I got a tasty fruit and am a tree and can vote now

Sweet.

Pedit:
Why can jackel vote but Banana couldn't at 0 corruption?

VOTE: Porkens

2 night kills is troubling

I would imagine that at least one of them came from some entity other than the scumteam tho

- Dumber

Maybe.

Join me on the porkens wagon?

For now, OK

But I would like to strongly reiterate that I believe starbuck and jackel to be scummy

VOTE: porkens

- Dumber

I just went over S_S' very small amount of posts. The only reason I can see anyone killing him is if they picked up on him being Saintess off of66. I dont remember the dude being townread by many people, and he didn't have any scum reads

Anyway I'll join in on Porky for the moment, why not

VOTE: Porky

How is this going with the flow of the game, Bell? You were the first person on day 2 to vote Porkens, and were the real driver of the wagon who got it off the ground.
On day 1, Porkens only had 1 person who voted him past RVS.

[tea leaves]

I asked you a question, Bell. I'm not going to read through the entire game so I'm bound to miss context. Answering my question with the context I needed while also using it as an opportunity to finally turn on me is pretty scummy though, and makes me feel slightly better about this being correct.

Can you now see clidd being scum?

[tea leaves]

Hmmmm

Way to make me feel bad if you're town lol

[tea leaves]

The point is, I asked the question because I may have missed context, e.g: I'm still trying to get a view of your alignment.
I'm struggling to understand why that question is the straw that broke the camel's back and got you to vote me.

[tea leaves]

You thinking it's scummy to show what I'm asking about? It's beneficial to both you and everyone else.

[tea leaves]

Nope, I very rarely leave "solving mode" as a player. Even when I'm confident on a scumread, I still try and solve them so that I can feel even more confident or realise I'm wrong.

Providing the quotes is still beneficial to everyone else viewing the conversation, no?

[tea leaves]

If scum!me was worried about you voting me, I wouldn't have been consistently pushing you today while you had me as a top 2 townread lol. I would've happily accepted it and left you alone.

[tea leaves]

Seriously though, please don't partner me with Ydrasse, it's insulting. If I was scum this game, I would never have been able to pull that off with Ydrasse scum.
At least partner me with someone that makes sense.
Like tealeaves.

The distancing MT,
I went out of my way to give my partner a hard time when they weren't under suspicion when I came into the game.
It's just something I would ever do, especially when I have no idea how competent they are or how well they would react to me.
It's wifomy, I know, but to me it's pretty obvious that I just don't do that stuff to untested partners.

It's a pointless gamble and I wish other players wouldn't waste their brain power on it, if you're scum, sure go for it, do your best.
But if you're town it's a waste of bandwidth to consider this weird angle.
I don't know why guiltylion switched from his position day 1 (it makes no sense for me to bus Ydrasse) to proposing a ydrasse/Bell team day two.

The defensiveness from Bell here looks over the top, especially since he wasn't even sure Ydrasse was scum at that point (if was after he reconsidered her). This looks like scum who knows he'll be in trouble if Ydrasse ever flips, and needs to nip this in the bud.

The post about Hobbes pairing them especially is self-conscious, as Hobbes later mentions himself actually.

[tea leaves]

I don't know why guiltylion switched from his position day 1 (it makes no sense for me to bus Ydrasse) to proposing a ydrasse/Bell team day two.

Hey do me a favor and quote the post where I proposed that team?

I'll wait...

this is exactly what I mean by the self-conscious point. me talking myself into a scumread on you does NOT mean I'm trying to pair you with Ydrasse

[tea leaves]

You are correct. Those quotes are showing my thoughts on why I believe you to be scum. The game of mafia wouldn't work if I kept those to myself and didn't share them with everyone.

I have seen TMI scumreads from partners on each other, yes.

[tea leaves]

It doesn't have to be one or the other. I can show people why I scumread you and try and get you elimnated, while also continuing to ask you questions and learn about your alignment.

[tea leaves]

You are correct. Those quotes are showing my thoughts on why I believe you to be scum. The game of mafia wouldn't work if I kept those to myself and didn't share them with everyone.

I have seen TMI scumreads from partners on each other, yes.

Too much information scum reads? What do you mean?

Basically when you scumread someone correctly with reasons that don't make sense, or ones only you see because you know they're scum.

It's what it looks like you were doing when you came in scumreading Ydrasse for the narration/pocketing thing.

[tea leaves]

Ja, I agree with Isis

[tea leaves]

Are you saying Morning is sus because she isn't giving you a hard time, or not sus?

[tea leaves]

I hate that I find Isis's dream post towny, buuuuut I thought that post was towny.

[tea leaves]

Depends on the context though. If Morning was saying she thought you could be scum while not actively pushing you, it's sus. But she's instead calling you town and defending you, and I think she believes in her reasons for it.

[tea leaves]

Ja, I agree with Isis

Also, i would appreciate it if you could explain why that argument is bad sometime.
It’s not like most scum tells are any good or more rigorous than that one.

Well, the only way Ydrasse was "pocketing" Isis was being friendly to her. But being friendly is obviously not a scumtell, and was infact town-indicative for Ydrasse before this game.

Remind me: Was Ydrasse pocketing Isis in any other way or was it just that?

[tea leaves]

Everyone else saw that as Ydrasse just being friendly/NAI, but you saw nefarious intent where others didn't. That's the TMI aspect of it that I'm (Isis was) talking about.

What's the post on meta realignment?

[tea leaves]

Oh, I see this is a beeboy vote where you flip them and then sort them afterward.

Yeah, I can see it ydrasse.

What did you mean here after that post?

[tea leaves]

New reads:
Morning/Hobbes > Farren > Isis > Bell

I finally agree that Hobbes's bussing and then unvoting and vanity pushing Bell last second is extremely unlikely to come from scum.

[tea leaves]

Ydrasse has lots of detractors but MT is one of the Ydrasse stans and she has lots of town equity

sorry to disappoint

dammit!!!

Ydrasse I will visit your stump biweekly to honour your legacy. i may sit on top of you from time to time (but only when im feeling really tired). i will definitely not carve anything into you!

Tweet noooooooooooo

If I'm scum, then I know you're telling the truth so miscontextualising serves no purpose other than making me look worse when you inevitably counter my points. You should read it as NAI at worse.

[tea leaves]

Whoops.

Those were quoted because I thought about commenting on Isis making up odd reasons for Ydrasse and "wanting" her to be town. I wasn't sure how AI it was at the end though, it could just be because town!her enjoyed playing noughts and crosses with her.

[tea leaves]

I thought you're voting me because you think it's scummy though? Wasn't that what your vote was for?

[tea leaves]

But... why are you voting for me then?

:visible confusion:

[tea leaves]

Because that fort sailed when he got a red role.

I thought you're voting me because you think it's scummy though? Wasn't that what your vote was for?

I still strongly suspect this is tvt.

What what what

[tea leaves]

Ugh, I think it's either you or Isis and it's a shame I'm not more townread to get both of those launches.

[tea leaves]

Moving on.

I notice when I refute a point you tend to either reinterpret me using this new information to still thinking i’m Scum or just ignore it. Is it because you’re hesitant to concede a point sometimes lest it concede credibility?
Do you take stock in that kind of play/thinking?

No? Whenever you refute something in a reasonable way, my confidence lowers slightly. My confidence in you being scum at this very moment is significantly lower than it was 5 hours ago.

[tea leaves]

I'd vote Isis. I have reasons for everyone else being town.

[tea leaves]

I stand by that point. Scum!you would feel worse about pushing that bus through to the launch if you weren't able to talk to Ydrasse about it, which would explain why you switched onto her counterwagon when she was getting close to being launched.

I was talking about today's stuff anyway.

[tea leaves]

What is "it"?

[tea leaves]

Hum dedum humdum de hum dum de hum

[tea leaves]

I want to make it clear that this interaction is terrible from my POV.

@farren. Crumbing my feelings. I don’t really like pointing to the stuff people miss when context is put in game, but eh. I suspect tea leaves. Which lowered my read of him which caused me to vote him and interact with him and see how genuine his push is.

I'm struggling to understand what you're saying here.

Are you saying you dislike when people miss context. You suspected me, and so the missing the context lowered you read on me?

[tea leaves]

HmM

[tea leaves]

Also, this bit probably isn't AI, but how is saying the interaction is terrible from your PoV crumbing you think we're TvT?

[tea leaves]

You mentioned this before and I'm curious, Azelf; why do you find my posts hard go read/parse?