Open 795 | Noir | Game Over

[MURDERCAT]

Lol like I would ever strategise or co-operate with my partners

It's bob behind the scene organizing it all obviously, we are just puppets

[MURDERCAT]

More from lost was very helpful. I feel like I want to see more from PP, more from bob, and obviously more from MWNN today. And I want anything from GG that's seems towny

[GeniusGamer]

my gg read is somewhat influenced by his playstyle and some premature associative tells, before you finish reading and mention these to me. i am aware.

i'm going to gloss over d1 content, but playstyle wise already felt weird. the relatively new join date does indicate he's new to the site, though he states himself he's not new to mafia. if anything he claims he has lots of experience playing, so it always bothers me why he approaches the game so rigidly. if he's new i would expect confusion, if he has had experience i'd expect him to adapt. his unwillingness to, i'm going to use this liberally, "play along" strikes me as scum trying to stick to a formula that he's used to, which includes the usual scumhunting emulation, trying to subtly towntell, always being on topic etcetc.

of course, this extends beyond his d1 play.

d2 wise he starts off with the nm push that he had since d1, backing it up with the lolhammer and lack of participation(195, 405, leading to 683) when there was basically little to no content end d1, therefore nm's lack of participation isn't that horrible, and the lolhammer is too lazy of a scumtell. people lolhammer as scum and as town. rejecting meta to continue pushing his reads. it's all too textbooky for this game, and as town there isn't any reason to be this way if you genuinely want to figure stuff out.

initial bambi vote is just horrible. some intentionally not playing well stuff because bambi was fooling around, which escalated into some argument, and somehow from that he concluded, and still thinks, bambi is scum. literally none of the bambi's posts that he had issues with related to the gamestate(jokes and some site meta).

the additional points subsequent bambi case wasn't that good either. his reference to 190 is NAI. the flipflop on the isis read, as pointed out before, just seems convenient for him to put his bambi case together. something about bambi bussing isis too which doesn't even make sense, because the bambi's psots about isis drunk posting have no relation to bambi bussing isis...bambi wasn't even voting isis? throwing out buzzwords trying to make something legit. this ties back in with my thoughts on his rigid playstyle. adding in 1014 to the case, anybody can flip from cracking jokes to providing a legitimate response. he says this as though if bambi started joking around that she should continue joking around. if someone responded properly to a joke i made calling it alignment indicative somehow, why wouldn't i respond seriously?

now i will state for the record that i do think tayl0r could be scum also, and gg's scumread on tayl0r does have me second guessing my gg scumread a bit. on one hand he has no reason to bus tayl0r unless it's a distancing thing that he decided when the game started. on the other hand, he never really explains the tayl0r read until late into the game(late being like a few posts back). and even when he does promise the tayl0r scumread, he pushes it off and doesn't deliver much. seems like he wants to create the distance between himself and tayl0r but doesn't really bother because, if somehow tayl0r does get eliminated, scum gets weaker.

i recognize that this tayl0r section is incredibly associative, but it iz what it iz

but speaking of tayl0r let's look at his tayl0r case:
talks about 32, not alignment indicative
talks about 542 which is actually a pretty decent point and also one of the reasons i scumread tayl0r.

the issues with this is that, despite him having mentioned the tayl0r scumread multiple times, these 2 posts are all he comes up with. not to mention that the only thing he brought up from d1 was 32, and he's had the tayl0r read since he started. on top of that, it was a pretty lazy case despite him having work on it for quite a while. tayl0r read is probably fake, be it bussing or just picking a player to scumread for scumhunting's sake.

moving on from his scumreads to his town(?)reads. they're not really townreads but whatever his terminology is weird.

his bob read makes no sense. looks like a scum buddying up to a somewhat universally townread player. listens to nm-meta justifications from bob but not bambi and pp(if i rmb these names correctly) despite him previously throwing a tantrum over meta. i'm not sure if think is white-knighting or buddying, i think it's buddying.

there's also the townread on himself which is kind of lol. i think this is more of a him/playstyle thing and not super alignment indicative, but:
1056 his own towncase on himself has 0 towntells. him acknowledging that he does these as scum help his case less. claiming he has even townier things that he wouldn't do as scum under his "many other actions i will omit" and then never stating them. pretty bad, not really scummy, but doesn't help him look good. nor is it something he would do as town to engage and convince people.


tl;dr:
reads are poorly supported, lazy. typical scum emulating scumhunting kind of reads. never really bothers to look beyond textbook tells, which imo are important with this playerlist.
rigid playstyle makes me think scum sticking to his format, as opposed to if he were town and being able to adapt and not worry about getting caught.

I am new to this site. That’s true. So why don’t I express confusion often? I don’t know, maybe because there are places like the wiki to read! In fact, I

did

ask what hypoclaiming is in my very first post in this game, as that term wasn’t used in any of the places I’ve played mafia or the wiki.

I think there are two parts to my play style that make you think it’s “rigid”. One part of my play style that’s bothering you isn’t “rigid,” per se. It’s more like, “There are certain, very special things that will let you as scum to me with near certainty.” Some of them include (in order of most scummy to least): Lolhammering, outright refusing to cooperate, and not going after your strongest reads. I find those to be serious offenses.

You’re trying to convince me that a lolhammer is a lazy scumtell? So if [insert your strongest row read here] hammered someone as soon as that person was at E-1, you wouldn’t express suspicion towards the former? I don’t believe that.

Again, I brushed off a vague claim of “5 years of meta” that tried to excuse everything Not_Mafia did. If someone had actually decided to be specific and bring up an example, which Bob eventually did, I would have considered the meta. Not that anything can

fully

excuse someone from doing all that stuff.

Let me make this joke thing really clear from my point of view.

If you want to joke, you should do it in a way that makes very clear the fact that you’re joking

. I still don’t think Bambi was joking. No, I don’t think you have to put large red text stating “this is a joke”. No, I don’t think you even have to put it in a spoiler. But Bambi’s post just didn’t look at all like a joke. It did not look at all like someone defending a joke they made. It instead looked like someone who slipped or did something scummy, and then became overly defensive in their backtracking, something that scum players are more likely to do.

I’d have been voted out before Dong was if I played the way people on some sites do.. I’m trying to get used to the particular way Mafia is played here, so

of course

my gameplay is “textbooky”. “Textbooks” give you all the relevant information you need to play the game, and I’d rather be informed but “rigid” than uninformed and flexible. I’m eschewing flexibility, social bonding, and learning along the way in favor of more efficient scumhunting and having a general understanding of the way mafia is played here.

You did

not

just accuse me of using buzzwords. You have got to be kidding me. Bussing does not

have

to be one partner voting the other. Bussing is

scum distancing themselves from one another

. This includes general claims of suspicion. I feel personally insulted that you would even consider accusing me of using buzzwords without even understanding the word you claim I’m using as a buzzword. I also feel insulted that you would stoop so low as to accuse me of throwing a tantrum about meta, both claiming that I had an outburst of anger and implying that my emotional control is at the level of a small child. This was clearly not the case.

Again, you’ve cherry-picked words and phrases to make me look bad. I did, in fact, include my going after N_M in the “things I will omit” section. How coincidental that you somehow missed that.

Are you implying that I’m unable to create good reads without a mountain of evidence? Unless you also missed that by complete chance, I cited an instance from my previous game in which a single slip from a scum player caused a town player to go after them, culminating in a scum elimination. I also believe that people are more likely to reveal themselves in a particular moment rather than over time. You conveniently forgot to address that point of mine.

I start the game with a townread on everybody. Once they do something scummy, their towniness is knocked down a certain amount based on their infraction. Since Bob has contributed, not done anything scummy, and given good reads that I generally agree with, I townread him. I guess you missed that as well when I explained it earlier.

Your case against me is full of cherry-picked information made with the intent of agreeing with the majority of players. This sticks out to me as confirmation bias at best, and scum trying to agree with the town at worst. Perhaps you should actually read my previous rebuttals before making such a poorly written case.

[GeniusGamer]

For when you finish reading my essay: Lost, who would you like to be eliminated today? Please give at least 2 or 3 people.

[MURDERCAT]

It instead looked like someone who slipped or did something scummy, and then became overly defensive in their backtracking, something that scum players are more likely to do.

GG people in this sir have player a lot of Mafia, they usually don't make mistakes like that. You have to look deeper

[GeniusGamer]

It instead looked like someone who slipped or did something scummy, and then became overly defensive in their backtracking, something that scum players are more likely to do.

GG people in this sir have player a lot of Mafia, they usually don't make mistakes like that. You have to look deeper

I get the general meaning of your post, but can you clear up that typo?

[bob3141]

I'd like to hear from lost and anyone else who hasn't posted about GG

probably scum

also gotta leave this here while i catch up.

How... unsubstantial. I feel insulted by the fact that your read on me is not a 10-page psychological analysis.

it's more substantial than your bambi case that's for sure

let me read posts i'm 10 pages behind

Pro Tip: I don’t really find it helpful to post

before

you’ve caught up. Also, I don’t think you’re in a position to call my posting unsubstantial when you have under 100 — actually, I’ll be generous — 75 posts at this point in the game.

Why do you think post number matters. And i would say most of your posts are unsubstantial. What reasoning there is in your posts is weak.

An example is how you try and push isis and bambi in one posts as partners. But never actualy come up with any reasoning as to why each one is scum. You say oh they must be buddies. Not even goign into why you think their exchnage that you quoted is AI. And how it lead you to that thought.

[bob3141]

By golly Ms. Molly, this guy really doesn't have a sense of humor at all.

Humor is not a sense. Humor is for losers.

Then you have fluff posts like this

[bob3141]

i think someone needs to lynch Genius guys, his lack of contribution is unacceptable

*Cough* Hypocrite! *Cough*

Post count in itself doesn’t matter (though my post count has, in fact, reached the double digits). I have a particularly busy life to live. Also, I have called you out for not only your posting style, but also your hammer of Dong before he could defend himself. I see you as scum, so I will vote for you until you’re eliminated.

On a tangentially related note, we’re not really supposed to use the word “lynch” anymore.

Here you go on about post count. Yet claim lost cant criticize your posts due to lower post count

[GeniusGamer]

I'd like to hear from lost and anyone else who hasn't posted about GG

probably scum

also gotta leave this here while i catch up.

How... unsubstantial. I feel insulted by the fact that your read on me is not a 10-page psychological analysis.

it's more substantial than your bambi case that's for sure

let me read posts i'm 10 pages behind

Pro Tip: I don’t really find it helpful to post

before

you’ve caught up. Also, I don’t think you’re in a position to call my posting unsubstantial when you have under 100 — actually, I’ll be generous — 75 posts at this point in the game.

Why do you think post number matters. And i would say most of your posts are unsubstantial. What reasoning there is in your posts is weak.

An example is how you try and push isis and bambi in one posts as partners. But never actualy come up with any reasoning as to why each one is scum. You say oh they must be buddies. Not even goign into why you think their exchnage that you quoted is AI. And how it lead you to that thought.

I did not say they

must

be partners, I said they could be partners.

i think someone needs to lynch Genius guys, his lack of contribution is unacceptable

*Cough* Hypocrite! *Cough*

Post count in itself doesn’t matter (though my post count has, in fact, reached the double digits). I have a particularly busy life to live. Also, I have called you out for not only your posting style, but also your hammer of Dong before he could defend himself. I see you as scum, so I will vote for you until you’re eliminated.

On a tangentially related note, we’re not really supposed to use the word “lynch” anymore.

Here you go on about post count. Yet claim lost cant criticize your posts due to lower post count

I said post count in and of itself doesn’t matter. Not only has Lost not posted as much as an average player should at this point in the game, but many of those posts were fluff.

[Not_Mafia]

my gg read is somewhat influenced by his playstyle and some premature associative tells, before you finish reading and mention these to me. i am aware.

i'm going to gloss over d1 content, but playstyle wise already felt weird. the relatively new join date does indicate he's new to the site, though he states himself he's not new to mafia. if anything he claims he has lots of experience playing, so it always bothers me why he approaches the game so rigidly. if he's new i would expect confusion, if he has had experience i'd expect him to adapt. his unwillingness to, i'm going to use this liberally, "play along" strikes me as scum trying to stick to a formula that he's used to, which includes the usual scumhunting emulation, trying to subtly towntell, always being on topic etcetc.

of course, this extends beyond his d1 play.

d2 wise he starts off with the nm push that he had since d1, backing it up with the lolhammer and lack of participation(195, 405, leading to 683) when there was basically little to no content end d1, therefore nm's lack of participation isn't that horrible, and the lolhammer is too lazy of a scumtell. people lolhammer as scum and as town. rejecting meta to continue pushing his reads. it's all too textbooky for this game, and as town there isn't any reason to be this way if you genuinely want to figure stuff out.

initial bambi vote is just horrible. some intentionally not playing well stuff because bambi was fooling around, which escalated into some argument, and somehow from that he concluded, and still thinks, bambi is scum. literally none of the bambi's posts that he had issues with related to the gamestate(jokes and some site meta).

the additional points subsequent bambi case wasn't that good either. his reference to 190 is NAI. the flipflop on the isis read, as pointed out before, just seems convenient for him to put his bambi case together. something about bambi bussing isis too which doesn't even make sense, because the bambi's psots about isis drunk posting have no relation to bambi bussing isis...bambi wasn't even voting isis? throwing out buzzwords trying to make something legit. this ties back in with my thoughts on his rigid playstyle. adding in 1014 to the case, anybody can flip from cracking jokes to providing a legitimate response. he says this as though if bambi started joking around that she should continue joking around. if someone responded properly to a joke i made calling it alignment indicative somehow, why wouldn't i respond seriously?

now i will state for the record that i do think tayl0r could be scum also, and gg's scumread on tayl0r does have me second guessing my gg scumread a bit. on one hand he has no reason to bus tayl0r unless it's a distancing thing that he decided when the game started. on the other hand, he never really explains the tayl0r read until late into the game(late being like a few posts back). and even when he does promise the tayl0r scumread, he pushes it off and doesn't deliver much. seems like he wants to create the distance between himself and tayl0r but doesn't really bother because, if somehow tayl0r does get eliminated, scum gets weaker.

i recognize that this tayl0r section is incredibly associative, but it iz what it iz

but speaking of tayl0r let's look at his tayl0r case:
talks about 32, not alignment indicative
talks about 542 which is actually a pretty decent point and also one of the reasons i scumread tayl0r.

the issues with this is that, despite him having mentioned the tayl0r scumread multiple times, these 2 posts are all he comes up with. not to mention that the only thing he brought up from d1 was 32, and he's had the tayl0r read since he started. on top of that, it was a pretty lazy case despite him having work on it for quite a while. tayl0r read is probably fake, be it bussing or just picking a player to scumread for scumhunting's sake.

moving on from his scumreads to his town(?)reads. they're not really townreads but whatever his terminology is weird.

his bob read makes no sense. looks like a scum buddying up to a somewhat universally townread player. listens to nm-meta justifications from bob but not bambi and pp(if i rmb these names correctly) despite him previously throwing a tantrum over meta. i'm not sure if think is white-knighting or buddying, i think it's buddying.

there's also the townread on himself which is kind of lol. i think this is more of a him/playstyle thing and not super alignment indicative, but:
1056 his own towncase on himself has 0 towntells. him acknowledging that he does these as scum help his case less. claiming he has even townier things that he wouldn't do as scum under his "many other actions i will omit" and then never stating them. pretty bad, not really scummy, but doesn't help him look good. nor is it something he would do as town to engage and convince people.


tl;dr:
reads are poorly supported, lazy. typical scum emulating scumhunting kind of reads. never really bothers to look beyond textbook tells, which imo are important with this playerlist.
rigid playstyle makes me think scum sticking to his format, as opposed to if he were town and being able to adapt and not worry about getting caught.

I am new to this site. That’s true. So why don’t I express confusion often? I don’t know, maybe because there are places like the wiki to read! In fact, I

did

ask what hypoclaiming is in my very first post in this game, as that term wasn’t used in any of the places I’ve played mafia or the wiki.

I think there are two parts to my play style that make you think it’s “rigid”. One part of my play style that’s bothering you isn’t “rigid,” per se. It’s more like, “There are certain, very special things that will let you as scum to me with near certainty.” Some of them include (in order of most scummy to least): Lolhammering, outright refusing to cooperate, and not going after your strongest reads. I find those to be serious offenses.

You’re trying to convince me that a lolhammer is a lazy scumtell? So if [insert your strongest row read here] hammered someone as soon as that person was at E-1, you wouldn’t express suspicion towards the former? I don’t believe that.

Again, I brushed off a vague claim of “5 years of meta” that tried to excuse everything Not_Mafia did. If someone had actually decided to be specific and bring up an example, which Bob eventually did, I would have considered the meta. Not that anything can

fully

excuse someone from doing all that stuff.

Let me make this joke thing really clear from my point of view.

If you want to joke, you should do it in a way that makes very clear the fact that you’re joking

. I still don’t think Bambi was joking. No, I don’t think you have to put large red text stating “this is a joke”. No, I don’t think you even have to put it in a spoiler. But Bambi’s post just didn’t look at all like a joke. It did not look at all like someone defending a joke they made. It instead looked like someone who slipped or did something scummy, and then became overly defensive in their backtracking, something that scum players are more likely to do.

I’d have been voted out before Dong was if I played the way people on some sites do.. I’m trying to get used to the particular way Mafia is played here, so

of course

my gameplay is “textbooky”. “Textbooks” give you all the relevant information you need to play the game, and I’d rather be informed but “rigid” than uninformed and flexible. I’m eschewing flexibility, social bonding, and learning along the way in favor of more efficient scumhunting and having a general understanding of the way mafia is played here.

You did

not

just accuse me of using buzzwords. You have got to be kidding me. Bussing does not

have

to be one partner voting the other. Bussing is

scum distancing themselves from one another

. This includes general claims of suspicion. I feel personally insulted that you would even consider accusing me of using buzzwords without even understanding the word you claim I’m using as a buzzword. I also feel insulted that you would stoop so low as to accuse me of throwing a tantrum about meta, both claiming that I had an outburst of anger and implying that my emotional control is at the level of a small child. This was clearly not the case.

Again, you’ve cherry-picked words and phrases to make me look bad. I did, in fact, include my going after N_M in the “things I will omit” section. How coincidental that you somehow missed that.

Are you implying that I’m unable to create good reads without a mountain of evidence? Unless you also missed that by complete chance, I cited an instance from my previous game in which a single slip from a scum player caused a town player to go after them, culminating in a scum elimination. I also believe that people are more likely to reveal themselves in a particular moment rather than over time. You conveniently forgot to address that point of mine.

I start the game with a townread on everybody. Once they do something scummy, their towniness is knocked down a certain amount based on their infraction. Since Bob has contributed, not done anything scummy, and given good reads that I generally agree with, I townread him. I guess you missed that as well when I explained it earlier.

Your case against me is full of cherry-picked information made with the intent of agreeing with the majority of players. This sticks out to me as confirmation bias at best, and scum trying to agree with the town at worst. Perhaps you should actually read my previous rebuttals before making such a poorly written case.

tl;dr

[GeniusGamer]

I also didn’t say he

can’t

criticize my posts. I said I don’t think he has the authority to call my posting unsubstantial considering

his

unsubstantial posts.

[GeniusGamer]

my gg read is somewhat influenced by his playstyle and some premature associative tells, before you finish reading and mention these to me. i am aware.

i'm going to gloss over d1 content, but playstyle wise already felt weird. the relatively new join date does indicate he's new to the site, though he states himself he's not new to mafia. if anything he claims he has lots of experience playing, so it always bothers me why he approaches the game so rigidly. if he's new i would expect confusion, if he has had experience i'd expect him to adapt. his unwillingness to, i'm going to use this liberally, "play along" strikes me as scum trying to stick to a formula that he's used to, which includes the usual scumhunting emulation, trying to subtly towntell, always being on topic etcetc.

of course, this extends beyond his d1 play.

d2 wise he starts off with the nm push that he had since d1, backing it up with the lolhammer and lack of participation(195, 405, leading to 683) when there was basically little to no content end d1, therefore nm's lack of participation isn't that horrible, and the lolhammer is too lazy of a scumtell. people lolhammer as scum and as town. rejecting meta to continue pushing his reads. it's all too textbooky for this game, and as town there isn't any reason to be this way if you genuinely want to figure stuff out.

initial bambi vote is just horrible. some intentionally not playing well stuff because bambi was fooling around, which escalated into some argument, and somehow from that he concluded, and still thinks, bambi is scum. literally none of the bambi's posts that he had issues with related to the gamestate(jokes and some site meta).

the additional points subsequent bambi case wasn't that good either. his reference to 190 is NAI. the flipflop on the isis read, as pointed out before, just seems convenient for him to put his bambi case together. something about bambi bussing isis too which doesn't even make sense, because the bambi's psots about isis drunk posting have no relation to bambi bussing isis...bambi wasn't even voting isis? throwing out buzzwords trying to make something legit. this ties back in with my thoughts on his rigid playstyle. adding in 1014 to the case, anybody can flip from cracking jokes to providing a legitimate response. he says this as though if bambi started joking around that she should continue joking around. if someone responded properly to a joke i made calling it alignment indicative somehow, why wouldn't i respond seriously?

now i will state for the record that i do think tayl0r could be scum also, and gg's scumread on tayl0r does have me second guessing my gg scumread a bit. on one hand he has no reason to bus tayl0r unless it's a distancing thing that he decided when the game started. on the other hand, he never really explains the tayl0r read until late into the game(late being like a few posts back). and even when he does promise the tayl0r scumread, he pushes it off and doesn't deliver much. seems like he wants to create the distance between himself and tayl0r but doesn't really bother because, if somehow tayl0r does get eliminated, scum gets weaker.

i recognize that this tayl0r section is incredibly associative, but it iz what it iz

but speaking of tayl0r let's look at his tayl0r case:
talks about 32, not alignment indicative
talks about 542 which is actually a pretty decent point and also one of the reasons i scumread tayl0r.

the issues with this is that, despite him having mentioned the tayl0r scumread multiple times, these 2 posts are all he comes up with. not to mention that the only thing he brought up from d1 was 32, and he's had the tayl0r read since he started. on top of that, it was a pretty lazy case despite him having work on it for quite a while. tayl0r read is probably fake, be it bussing or just picking a player to scumread for scumhunting's sake.

moving on from his scumreads to his town(?)reads. they're not really townreads but whatever his terminology is weird.

his bob read makes no sense. looks like a scum buddying up to a somewhat universally townread player. listens to nm-meta justifications from bob but not bambi and pp(if i rmb these names correctly) despite him previously throwing a tantrum over meta. i'm not sure if think is white-knighting or buddying, i think it's buddying.

there's also the townread on himself which is kind of lol. i think this is more of a him/playstyle thing and not super alignment indicative, but:
1056 his own towncase on himself has 0 towntells. him acknowledging that he does these as scum help his case less. claiming he has even townier things that he wouldn't do as scum under his "many other actions i will omit" and then never stating them. pretty bad, not really scummy, but doesn't help him look good. nor is it something he would do as town to engage and convince people.


tl;dr:
reads are poorly supported, lazy. typical scum emulating scumhunting kind of reads. never really bothers to look beyond textbook tells, which imo are important with this playerlist.
rigid playstyle makes me think scum sticking to his format, as opposed to if he were town and being able to adapt and not worry about getting caught.

I am new to this site. That’s true. So why don’t I express confusion often? I don’t know, maybe because there are places like the wiki to read! In fact, I

did

ask what hypoclaiming is in my very first post in this game, as that term wasn’t used in any of the places I’ve played mafia or the wiki.

I think there are two parts to my play style that make you think it’s “rigid”. One part of my play style that’s bothering you isn’t “rigid,” per se. It’s more like, “There are certain, very special things that will let you as scum to me with near certainty.” Some of them include (in order of most scummy to least): Lolhammering, outright refusing to cooperate, and not going after your strongest reads. I find those to be serious offenses.

You’re trying to convince me that a lolhammer is a lazy scumtell? So if [insert your strongest row read here] hammered someone as soon as that person was at E-1, you wouldn’t express suspicion towards the former? I don’t believe that.

Again, I brushed off a vague claim of “5 years of meta” that tried to excuse everything Not_Mafia did. If someone had actually decided to be specific and bring up an example, which Bob eventually did, I would have considered the meta. Not that anything can

fully

excuse someone from doing all that stuff.

Let me make this joke thing really clear from my point of view.

If you want to joke, you should do it in a way that makes very clear the fact that you’re joking

. I still don’t think Bambi was joking. No, I don’t think you have to put large red text stating “this is a joke”. No, I don’t think you even have to put it in a spoiler. But Bambi’s post just didn’t look at all like a joke. It did not look at all like someone defending a joke they made. It instead looked like someone who slipped or did something scummy, and then became overly defensive in their backtracking, something that scum players are more likely to do.

I’d have been voted out before Dong was if I played the way people on some sites do.. I’m trying to get used to the particular way Mafia is played here, so

of course

my gameplay is “textbooky”. “Textbooks” give you all the relevant information you need to play the game, and I’d rather be informed but “rigid” than uninformed and flexible. I’m eschewing flexibility, social bonding, and learning along the way in favor of more efficient scumhunting and having a general understanding of the way mafia is played here.

You did

not

just accuse me of using buzzwords. You have got to be kidding me. Bussing does not

have

to be one partner voting the other. Bussing is

scum distancing themselves from one another

. This includes general claims of suspicion. I feel personally insulted that you would even consider accusing me of using buzzwords without even understanding the word you claim I’m using as a buzzword. I also feel insulted that you would stoop so low as to accuse me of throwing a tantrum about meta, both claiming that I had an outburst of anger and implying that my emotional control is at the level of a small child. This was clearly not the case.

Again, you’ve cherry-picked words and phrases to make me look bad. I did, in fact, include my going after N_M in the “things I will omit” section. How coincidental that you somehow missed that.

Are you implying that I’m unable to create good reads without a mountain of evidence? Unless you also missed that by complete chance, I cited an instance from my previous game in which a single slip from a scum player caused a town player to go after them, culminating in a scum elimination. I also believe that people are more likely to reveal themselves in a particular moment rather than over time. You conveniently forgot to address that point of mine.

I start the game with a townread on everybody. Once they do something scummy, their towniness is knocked down a certain amount based on their infraction. Since Bob has contributed, not done anything scummy, and given good reads that I generally agree with, I townread him. I guess you missed that as well when I explained it earlier.

Your case against me is full of cherry-picked information made with the intent of agreeing with the majority of players. This sticks out to me as confirmation bias at best, and scum trying to agree with the town at worst. Perhaps you should actually read my previous rebuttals before making such a poorly written case.

tl;dr

Pffft. It’s nothing. Just read it all.

[Bambi Jay]

When it gets that long a spoiler tag to fold it up is recommended. At least when responding to it

[Lost]

my gg read is somewhat influenced by his playstyle and some premature associative tells, before you finish reading and mention these to me. i am aware.

i'm going to gloss over d1 content, but playstyle wise already felt weird. the relatively new join date does indicate he's new to the site, though he states himself he's not new to mafia. if anything he claims he has lots of experience playing, so it always bothers me why he approaches the game so rigidly. if he's new i would expect confusion, if he has had experience i'd expect him to adapt. his unwillingness to, i'm going to use this liberally, "play along" strikes me as scum trying to stick to a formula that he's used to, which includes the usual scumhunting emulation, trying to subtly towntell, always being on topic etcetc.

of course, this extends beyond his d1 play.

d2 wise he starts off with the nm push that he had since d1, backing it up with the lolhammer and lack of participation(195, 405, leading to 683) when there was basically little to no content end d1, therefore nm's lack of participation isn't that horrible, and the lolhammer is too lazy of a scumtell. people lolhammer as scum and as town. rejecting meta to continue pushing his reads. it's all too textbooky for this game, and as town there isn't any reason to be this way if you genuinely want to figure stuff out.

initial bambi vote is just horrible. some intentionally not playing well stuff because bambi was fooling around, which escalated into some argument, and somehow from that he concluded, and still thinks, bambi is scum. literally none of the bambi's posts that he had issues with related to the gamestate(jokes and some site meta).

the additional points subsequent bambi case wasn't that good either. his reference to 190 is NAI. the flipflop on the isis read, as pointed out before, just seems convenient for him to put his bambi case together. something about bambi bussing isis too which doesn't even make sense, because the bambi's psots about isis drunk posting have no relation to bambi bussing isis...bambi wasn't even voting isis? throwing out buzzwords trying to make something legit. this ties back in with my thoughts on his rigid playstyle. adding in 1014 to the case, anybody can flip from cracking jokes to providing a legitimate response. he says this as though if bambi started joking around that she should continue joking around. if someone responded properly to a joke i made calling it alignment indicative somehow, why wouldn't i respond seriously?

now i will state for the record that i do think tayl0r could be scum also, and gg's scumread on tayl0r does have me second guessing my gg scumread a bit. on one hand he has no reason to bus tayl0r unless it's a distancing thing that he decided when the game started. on the other hand, he never really explains the tayl0r read until late into the game(late being like a few posts back). and even when he does promise the tayl0r scumread, he pushes it off and doesn't deliver much. seems like he wants to create the distance between himself and tayl0r but doesn't really bother because, if somehow tayl0r does get eliminated, scum gets weaker.

i recognize that this tayl0r section is incredibly associative, but it iz what it iz

but speaking of tayl0r let's look at his tayl0r case:
talks about 32, not alignment indicative
talks about 542 which is actually a pretty decent point and also one of the reasons i scumread tayl0r.

the issues with this is that, despite him having mentioned the tayl0r scumread multiple times, these 2 posts are all he comes up with. not to mention that the only thing he brought up from d1 was 32, and he's had the tayl0r read since he started. on top of that, it was a pretty lazy case despite him having work on it for quite a while. tayl0r read is probably fake, be it bussing or just picking a player to scumread for scumhunting's sake.

moving on from his scumreads to his town(?)reads. they're not really townreads but whatever his terminology is weird.

his bob read makes no sense. looks like a scum buddying up to a somewhat universally townread player. listens to nm-meta justifications from bob but not bambi and pp(if i rmb these names correctly) despite him previously throwing a tantrum over meta. i'm not sure if think is white-knighting or buddying, i think it's buddying.

there's also the townread on himself which is kind of lol. i think this is more of a him/playstyle thing and not super alignment indicative, but:
1056 his own towncase on himself has 0 towntells. him acknowledging that he does these as scum help his case less. claiming he has even townier things that he wouldn't do as scum under his "many other actions i will omit" and then never stating them. pretty bad, not really scummy, but doesn't help him look good. nor is it something he would do as town to engage and convince people.


tl;dr:
reads are poorly supported, lazy. typical scum emulating scumhunting kind of reads. never really bothers to look beyond textbook tells, which imo are important with this playerlist.
rigid playstyle makes me think scum sticking to his format, as opposed to if he were town and being able to adapt and not worry about getting caught.

I am new to this site. That’s true. So why don’t I express confusion often? I don’t know, maybe because there are places like the wiki to read! In fact, I

did

ask what hypoclaiming is in my very first post in this game, as that term wasn’t used in any of the places I’ve played mafia or the wiki.

when i talk about you being new, i'm not talking about not knowing the lingo. i'm talking about how you approach gameplay. not sure why you brought this up.

I think there are two parts to my play style that make you think it’s “rigid”. One part of my play style that’s bothering you isn’t “rigid,” per se. It’s more like, “There are certain, very special things that will let you as scum to me with near certainty.” Some of them include (in order of most scummy to least): Lolhammering, outright refusing to cooperate, and not going after your strongest reads. I find those to be serious offenses.

i agree that refusing to cooperate is scummy. i don't agree that not going after your strongest reads is scummy. i will concede that the latter point can be scummy depending on context. that aside, saying isnt “There are certain, very special things that will let you as scum to me with near certainty.” the same as being rigid?

You’re trying to convince me that a lolhammer is a lazy scumtell? So if [insert your strongest row read here] hammered someone as soon as that person was at E-1, you wouldn’t express suspicion towards the former? I don’t believe that.

what does nm have to gain by lolhammering so early? sure he can remove a player he knows to be town, but that player just had a wagon grow on him. he didn't have to lolhammer, we could have mislynched dong on our own. even worse, if dong and flipped pr i would think the we would be less dismissive about the lolhammer. the lolhammer draws extra suspicion, he doesn't need that as scum.

getting rid of a townie aside, the next best gain is inhibiting discussion, but there was barely any going on anyway.

i don't see scum nm lolhammering. not that i can see town nm lolhammering either, given the risk of hitting pr, but given d1 progress and his very unusual playstyle, i'm inclined to think the lolhammer was townnm and not scumnm.

Again, I brushed off a vague claim of “5 years of meta” that tried to excuse everything Not_Mafia did. If someone had actually decided to be specific and bring up an example, which Bob eventually did, I would have considered the meta. Not that anything can

fully

excuse someone from doing all that stuff.

the fact that your first thought is to dismiss rather than to inquire speaks volumes about how you approach the game. on 2 separate occasions people bring up meta, on both of these occasions you brush them off, only until someone bothers to give you something more specific. why didn't you ask for something more concrete in the first place? small actions like this don't help your case, if anything they add to the scumminess, because you can choose to ignore meta and tunnel only until someone bothers to bring up the evidence, then you have to step back.

Let me make this joke thing really clear from my point of view.

If you want to joke, you should do it in a way that makes very clear the fact that you’re joking

. I still don’t think Bambi was joking. No, I don’t think you have to put large red text stating “this is a joke”. No, I don’t think you even have to put it in a spoiler. But Bambi’s post just didn’t look at all like a joke. It did not look at all like someone defending a joke they made. It instead looked like someone who slipped or did something scummy, and then became overly defensive in their backtracking, something that scum players are more likely to do.

allow me to quote the series of posts leading up to the post you claim to not be joking:

Spoiler: series of posts

@Bambi Jay can you play the game and place your vote :/

I could. Or I could not. The choice is mine.

But honestly if my vote was on someone it'd probably be Pengu right now. His town list of Bob NoName and Notmaf feels less like that's who he truly town reads and more people he can pocket for later.

So why isn't your vote on anyone?

Because Norway said I should and I'm rebelling against the country now for telling me what to do. Blame it for me not voting.

1. bambi is obviously cooperating to some degree. norwee asks her to vote, bambi says she could or couldnt or whatever, but still provides her who she would vote. and gives some reasoning for it.
2. nm was the one that pushed her further regarding her non-voting. thus i don't expect her response to be serious, leading to the "rebelling against the country" response
3. subsequently we get 791 and 793. 791 continues the point of "please play and put your vote", 793 is just another "i could, or i couldnt"

however point number 1 proves that, while she chooses not too vote, she is still providing her top vote choice and supporting it somehow. this makes me think that she isn't really serious in her lack of cooperation.

whether or not you think it's joking or not is up to you. i don't think this is a slip in any way, nor do i think it's scummy. i agree, intentionally not cooperating is something scum would want to do to inhibit scumhunting, but she contributed her reads. she merely decided not to put her vote down. your response came shortly after, if you had not posted and let the interaction continue she may have voted eventually (as she did in 801. i dont see her response as "being caught". at this point in the game your dislike of jokes is apparent. being upset for being called out for a joke is just frustration, not alignment indicative.

I’d have been voted out before Dong was if I played the way people on some sites do.. I’m trying to get used to the particular way Mafia is played here, so

of course

my gameplay is “textbooky”. “Textbooks” give you all the relevant information you need to play the game, and I’d rather be informed but “rigid” than uninformed and flexible. I’m eschewing flexibility, social bonding, and learning along the way in favor of more efficient scumhunting and having a general understanding of the way mafia is played here.

You did

not

just accuse me of using buzzwords. You have got to be kidding me. Bussing does not

have

to be one partner voting the other. Bussing is

scum distancing themselves from one another

. This includes general claims of suspicion. I feel personally insulted that you would even consider accusing me of using buzzwords without even understanding the word you claim I’m using as a buzzword. I also feel insulted that you would stoop so low as to accuse me of throwing a tantrum about meta, both claiming that I had an outburst of anger and implying that my emotional control is at the level of a small child. This was clearly not the case.

Again, you’ve cherry-picked words and phrases to make me look bad. I did, in fact, include my going after N_M in the “things I will omit” section. How coincidental that you somehow missed that.

Are you implying that I’m unable to create good reads without a mountain of evidence? Unless you also missed that by complete chance, I cited an instance from my previous game in which a single slip from a scum player caused a town player to go after them, culminating in a scum elimination. I also believe that people are more likely to reveal themselves in a particular moment rather than over time. You conveniently forgot to address that point of mine.

I start the game with a townread on everybody. Once they do something scummy, their towniness is knocked down a certain amount based on their infraction. Since Bob has contributed, not done anything scummy, and given good reads that I generally agree with, I townread him. I guess you missed that as well when I explained it earlier.

Your case against me is full of cherry-picked information made with the intent of agreeing with the majority of players. This sticks out to me as confirmation bias at best, and scum trying to agree with the town at worst. Perhaps you should actually read my previous rebuttals before making such a poorly written case.[/quote]

[Lost]

oh fuck i hit send prematurely i'm not done editing that please ignore it.

[MURDERCAT]

It instead looked like someone who slipped or did something scummy, and then became overly defensive in their backtracking, something that scum players are more likely to do.

GG people in this sir have player a lot of Mafia, they usually don't make mistakes like that. You have to look deeper

GG people on this site have played*

I get the general meaning of your post, but can you clear up that typo?

[GeniusGamer]

You said a newbie would be confused. I provided an example of me being confused due to not having played on this site often. What is your point there?

[Lost]

completed response to gg in spoiler VVVV

Spoiler: i'm gna spoiler my response because my case, the following replies quoting it, and my premature reply are all long and flooding the page

I am new to this site. That’s true. So why don’t I express confusion often? I don’t know, maybe because there are places like the wiki to read! In fact, I

did

ask what hypoclaiming is in my very first post in this game, as that term wasn’t used in any of the places I’ve played mafia or the wiki.

when i talk about you being new, i'm not talking about not knowing the lingo. i'm talking about how you approach gameplay. not sure why you brought this up.

I think there are two parts to my play style that make you think it’s “rigid”. One part of my play style that’s bothering you isn’t “rigid,” per se. It’s more like, “There are certain, very special things that will let you as scum to me with near certainty.” Some of them include (in order of most scummy to least): Lolhammering, outright refusing to cooperate, and not going after your strongest reads. I find those to be serious offenses.

i agree that refusing to cooperate is scummy. i don't agree that not going after your strongest reads is scummy. i will concede that the latter point can be scummy depending on context. that aside, saying isnt “There are certain, very special things that will let you as scum to me with near certainty.” the same as being rigid?

You’re trying to convince me that a lolhammer is a lazy scumtell? So if [insert your strongest row read here] hammered someone as soon as that person was at E-1, you wouldn’t express suspicion towards the former? I don’t believe that.

what does nm have to gain by lolhammering so early? sure he can remove a player he knows to be town, but that player just had a wagon grow on him. he didn't have to lolhammer, we could have mislynched dong on our own. even worse, if dong and flipped pr i would think the we would be less dismissive about the lolhammer. the lolhammer draws extra suspicion, he doesn't need that as scum.

getting rid of a townie aside, the next best gain is inhibiting discussion, but there was barely any going on anyway.

i don't see scum nm lolhammering. not that i can see town nm lolhammering either, given the risk of hitting pr, but given d1 progress and his very unusual playstyle, i'm inclined to think the lolhammer was townnm and not scumnm.

Again, I brushed off a vague claim of “5 years of meta” that tried to excuse everything Not_Mafia did. If someone had actually decided to be specific and bring up an example, which Bob eventually did, I would have considered the meta. Not that anything can

fully

excuse someone from doing all that stuff.

the fact that your first thought is to dismiss rather than to inquire speaks volumes about how you approach the game. on 2 separate occasions people bring up meta, on both of these occasions you brush them off, only until someone bothers to give you something more specific. why didn't you ask for something more concrete in the first place? small actions like this don't help your case, if anything they add to the scumminess, because you can choose to ignore meta and tunnel only until someone bothers to bring up the evidence, then you have to step back.

Let me make this joke thing really clear from my point of view.

If you want to joke, you should do it in a way that makes very clear the fact that you’re joking

. I still don’t think Bambi was joking. No, I don’t think you have to put large red text stating “this is a joke”. No, I don’t think you even have to put it in a spoiler. But Bambi’s post just didn’t look at all like a joke. It did not look at all like someone defending a joke they made. It instead looked like someone who slipped or did something scummy, and then became overly defensive in their backtracking, something that scum players are more likely to do.

allow me to quote the series of posts leading up to the post you claim to not be joking:

@Bambi Jay can you play the game and place your vote :/

I could. Or I could not. The choice is mine.

But honestly if my vote was on someone it'd probably be Pengu right now. His town list of Bob NoName and Notmaf feels less like that's who he truly town reads and more people he can pocket for later.

So why isn't your vote on anyone?

Because Norway said I should and I'm rebelling against the country now for telling me what to do. Blame it for me not voting.

1. bambi is obviously cooperating to some degree. norwee asks her to vote, bambi says she could or couldnt or whatever, but still provides her who she would vote. and gives some reasoning for it.
2. nm was the one that pushed her further regarding her non-voting. thus i don't expect her response to be serious, leading to the "rebelling against the country" response
3. subsequently we get 791 and 793. 791 continues the point of "please play and put your vote", 793 is just another "i could, or i couldnt"

however point number 1 proves that, while she chooses not too vote, she is still providing her top vote choice and supporting it somehow. this makes me think that she isn't really serious in her lack of cooperation.

whether or not you think it's joking or not is up to you. i don't think this is a slip in any way, nor do i think it's scummy. i agree, intentionally not cooperating is something scum would want to do to inhibit scumhunting, but she contributed her reads. she merely decided not to put her vote down. your response came shortly after, if you had not posted and let the interaction continue she may have voted eventually (as she did in 801. i dont see her response as "being caught". at this point in the game your dislike of jokes is apparent. being upset for being called out for a joke is just frustration, not alignment indicative.

I’d have been voted out before Dong was if I played the way people on some sites do.. I’m trying to get used to the particular way Mafia is played here, so

of course

my gameplay is “textbooky”. “Textbooks” give you all the relevant information you need to play the game, and I’d rather be informed but “rigid” than uninformed and flexible. I’m eschewing flexibility, social bonding, and learning along the way in favor of more efficient scumhunting and having a general understanding of the way mafia is played here.

i don't recall every calling your play textbooky, only that you use textbook tells, which i don't think will prove very effective with our playerlist.

You did

not

just accuse me of using buzzwords. You have got to be kidding me. Bussing does not

have

to be one partner voting the other. Bussing is

scum distancing themselves from one another

. This includes general claims of suspicion. I feel personally insulted that you would even consider accusing me of using buzzwords without even understanding the word you claim I’m using as a buzzword. I also feel insulted that you would stoop so low as to accuse me of throwing a tantrum about meta, both claiming that I had an outburst of anger and implying that my emotional control is at the level of a small child. This was clearly not the case.

sure, you don't need to vote to bus. sure, you don't need to full out scumread 2 people to think one is bussing the other, as long as you somewhat suspect both of them to be scum. but bambi calling out isis for drunk posting does not distance her from isis. what she's doing is explaining isis actions for her, claiming that isis is drunk posting and thus should be taken less seriously/with a grain of salt yadayada. if you suspect them both, wouldn't it be bambi trying to cover for isis, rather than bussing her?

Again, you’ve cherry-picked words and phrases to make me look bad. I did, in fact, include my going after N_M in the “things I will omit” section. How coincidental that you somehow missed that.

ah yes, thank you for cherry picking out your 1 action of going after nm out of the "many, many other actions" that you have omitted. also, saying that "if i were scum i wouldn't do this" doesn't make me think "oh yeah he's right about himself he's gotta be town". also, even if your buddies told you to stop that doesn't mean you can just stop tunneling on nm.

Are you implying that I’m unable to create good reads without a mountain of evidence? Unless you also missed that by complete chance, I cited an instance from my previous game in which a single slip from a scum player caused a town player to go after them, culminating in a scum elimination. I also believe that people are more likely to reveal themselves in a particular moment rather than over time. You conveniently forgot to address that point of mine.

well i would think you need some evidence to back up a good read. you address like 2-3 posts every case, that's not helpful to convince others of your reads, and definitely doesn't help discussion of any sort.

also yeah, i read that instance. not sure why it matters though, you're just bringing up an instance, i'm assuming, you saw play out to bring up a scumtell. you could have just brought up the scumtell imo.

also yes, i read that "reveal themselves" thing you mentioned. in fact i address it here:

talks about 542 which is actually a pretty decent point and also one of the reasons i scumread tayl0r.

youre a pretty selective reader arentcha

I start the game with a townread on everybody. Once they do something scummy, their towniness is knocked down a certain amount based on their infraction. Since Bob has contributed, not done anything scummy, and given good reads that I generally agree with, I townread him. I guess you missed that as well when I explained it earlier.

i feel like this is the first time you outright declare you townread bob. you've only ever claimed, and clarified, to trust bob, like in 879, 993, and 1099 where you explicitly call bob trustworthy while townreading yourself. so where exactly is this townread that i'm missing?

Your case against me is full of cherry-picked information made with the intent of agreeing with the majority of players. This sticks out to me as confirmation bias at best, and scum trying to agree with the town at worst. Perhaps you should actually read my previous rebuttals before making such a poorly written case.

meanwhile i have this strong impression of you cherry picking posts to respond to, like i will demonstrate shortly after posting this. also trust me, i've read all your previous rebuttals many times.

tl;dr nothing changed i still think gg is scum

[Tayl0r Swift]

Lol like I would ever strategise or co-operate with my partners

It's bob behind the scene organizing it all obviously, we are just puppets

we? since this is a joke post im going to go ahead and assume that the "scumslip" was on purpose. but i still want to put this in my iso.

[Lost]

You said a newbie would be confused. I provided an example of me being confused due to not having played on this site often. What is your point there?

confusion not in lingo and mafia definitions, but confusion in "what the fuck are these players doing what the fuck are they talking about why do these people play mafia this way"

[Lost]

For when you finish reading my essay: Lost, who would you like to be eliminated today? Please give at least 2 or 3 people.

the second is kind of a toss up between you and nm. bambi/isis/mwnn are kinda in a grey area

for clarity, but not entirely accurate, merely to serve as a rough gauge:

gg > tayl0r > nm > isis > bambi > mwnn

just the most recent, but also relevant, of selective reading/cherry picking things to response to. you're only concerned with the case or things to latch on to. you ask to look useful, when i had already given my readlist very recently.

[Lost]

also i'm moving to mobile now, i may continue to reply, but gg if you reply to my wall, know that i'm either ignoring it or replying it very briefly because i don't like formatting on mobile.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Let me make this joke thing really clear from my point of view.

If you want to joke, you should do it in a way that makes very clear the fact that you’re joking

. I still don’t think Bambi was joking. No, I don’t think you have to put large red text stating “this is a joke”. No, I don’t think you even have to put it in a spoiler. But Bambi’s post just didn’t look at all like a joke. It did not look at all like someone defending a joke they made. It instead looked like someone who slipped or did something scummy, and then became overly defensive in their backtracking, something that scum players are more likely to do.

i mean... disagree. part of the humor is the shock value or the uncertainty about whether a different perspective is genuine or just crazy. labeling things as jokes takes away from that.

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: GeniusGamer

I can't hammer GG now, so you can all feel free to vote him