Mini Normal 2163: MItGBSMoD [game over!]

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:58 am

In post 2907, PlusJOYED wrote:why do people not see that IV is scum, the AtE is literally right there

I don’t know what makes you so certain that AtE always comes from Scum. That’s bizarre to me. I was accused of engaging in so much AtE in the other Mini Normal game I played. And guess what, I was Town.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:00 am

Kerset had a horrendous meta read of me that I still have not seen any evidence for or anybody agreeing, and if it wasn’t for their Claim I probably would have pushed that through by now.

I will say, I think Tayl0r is also probably just Town. But if they flipped Scum, would I stumble out of my chair? No.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:31 am

In post 2916, innocentvillager wrote:
In post 2908, Andresvmb wrote:Menalque is literally a 50/50
mena is 50-50 to be town? sign me up for mena wagon!

Here’s the thing. Menalque’s push on Osuka has been loud, obnoxious, and way overconfident. Menalque is either correct, Town, and will be completely obvious tomorrow. Or, he will try and sleaze his way out of a bad situation if Osuka flips Town, and we will have to make a decision as to whether he is worth listening to anymore, is Town, or is just Scum and needs to go.

I am not trying to hide my culpability here btw if Osuka flips Town, I’m going to make that clear. But Menalque knows that he will be seen as centrally responsible for a bad push if he’s wrong. I know a small group of players that are happy to do this as Scum. But I have also seen so many overconfident Town players (that do not have above random reads) than I care to count to be completely certain that Osuka flipping Town means that Menalque is Scum.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:33 am

In post 2918, innocentvillager wrote:
In post 2898, Andresvmb wrote:The thing is, I don’t think it’s very likely this game that all of Menalque, IV and Osuka are Town. I don’t. But there’s something off about the way Menalque is pushing for Osuka, and frankly I think there’s something off about the way Osuka is pushing IV. And the more I read plusJOYED, the more I think they’re kind of informed about alignments and enjoying throwing darts from the sideline.
what does “off” mean and who does that make you suspect?

I tend to become most skeptical of players that appear to pushing a course of action that feels easy or convenient. There is something that pings me about pushing the player that is self-voting, seems defeated, and won’t cause too much drama if they flip Town.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:33 am

^to push*

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:39 am

In post 2943, PlusJOYED wrote:I don't get why people don't consider the idea of mena vs osuka being TvT

Because the points made by Menalque against Osuka are almost too aggressive to be coming from Town should Osuka flip Town. It’s the tone and content of the accusations. For a D1, it’s almost too extreme. At the same time, it’s mighty aggressive for Scum to be doing this too! So I don’t think it’s like absurd.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:52 am

Yeah I know Menalque is the type of player that is absolutely capable of pushing hard as Scum. It takes a certain personality. I know I can do it too, but it’s not my preferred style.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:53 am

Alright Bob, are you staying on Teacher? What are you going to do?

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:41 pm

VOTE: plusJOYED

Okay, I am going to go back to voting where my instincts have been pointing to most of today.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:42 pm

In post 3027, Menalque wrote:Like in particular it twigs me that he’s saying that when I now don’t think the case on osuka is nearly as strong as I did, and it fits very much into the pattern of someone coming on late to support the thing while encouraging the idea that I take the lion’s share of responsibility

Which isn’t wrong, idk it’s hard to put my finger on, but it’s like troublesome that he’s coming on late and suggesting that it’s comparatively unlikely to be SvT because my aggression was too strong or whatever

Honestly, I feel like cursing at you, but I won’t do it.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:55 pm

In post 3055, teacher wrote:19 hours..... Why is there no urgency to consolidate -- like wtf is a vote one someone nobody has been discussing andres? Its time to get a lim not just posture. What lim that is remotely possible do you want to go through?

I’m not going to consolidate onto a bad push. Like I actually think plus has a decent chance to flip Scum. I’ve been saying it literally all day. At different points something would ping me about plus and I’ve been pushing it to the side while you all had a very specific type of contest.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:57 pm

Menalque coming out with their nonsense about how I’m all of a sudden suspicious because I didn’t vote for Osuka when they wanted me to but after I had taken some time to reflect is really putting me over the edge here. That set of posts was the epitome of not taking ownership for your mistakes. I wasn’t the one arguing that another player had tripped a particular tell only to backtrack later. Give me a break.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:59 pm

In post 3057, teacher wrote:Why is bob a bad push?

Is no-lim better than a bad lim? (no). Plus isnt going to be a lim, so do something productive.

I don’t SR Bob and I think he can make himself more useful later. If he keeps this low activity level and fails to really drive the conversation even after we’ve had some more information sure, by all means. He specifically spoke about his own meta regarding this not being his Scum game. Can anybody verify that?

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:09 pm

In post 2954, PlusJOYED wrote:agree with rest, but not true for iv. By killing him here, even if he flips town, it'll clear up so much

This is the sort of thing that pings me. Plus has been very consistently focused on a three person Scum Team since about the middle of the day. And despite everything that’s happened, plus has not really changed their view much. Opportunistically downgrading players here and there based on how the game was moving {Saudade, Bob}, but not really moving away from an {IV, Teacher, NDMath} solve. Despite that, there’s a lot of positioning around a potential IV Town flip. And plus was almost too confident in establishing that Osuka v. Menalque was TvT. But wants to restrict the flip today to IV/Osuka? I’m not buying it.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:12 pm

Okay but none of you have really offered a compelling alternative at all. Menalque just retracted their push on Osuka, who I can’t read really. I don’t want to do Bob. And an IV flip is honestly probably just bad. Yeah IV could theoretically be doing all that AtE and self-voting as Scum. But even under consistent pressure, IV has been completely unable to really direct the pressure anywhere specific. Constantly claiming to not have any idea who is Scum here. It’s such a misplay as Scum I’m almost willing to give it a pass.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:15 pm

I don’t know. I want someone to convince me that I’m an idiot for SR’ing plus and I’ll join whatever wagon you want. In the mean time, given the options, this is what I want to do. If this becomes obviously unviable and we’re approaching deadline, fine I’ll swallow my pride and vote somewhere else.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:19 pm

In post 3069, Menalque wrote:I’m not saying osuka is town, I’m saying the reasons I had for lockscumming him yesterday based on his reaction to my calling out his ellitell was NAI I think

You’re making me want to throw my phone towards the wall.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:22 pm

In post 3073, Menalque wrote:
In post 3070, Andresvmb wrote:
In post 3069, Menalque wrote:I’m not saying osuka is town, I’m saying the reasons I had for lockscumming him yesterday based on his reaction to my calling out his ellitell was NAI I think
You’re making me want to throw my phone towards the wall.
Wonderful

Why

How am I supposed to trust your view of Osuka when you readily admit that part of your argument is compromised?

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:25 pm

You expressed such certainty about Osuka, that it was hard for me to see a world where Osuka’s alignment has no bearing on yours. Why is that difficult for you to understand?

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:28 pm

^you are very clearly not sure about Osuka. That’s the thing. And that’s fine! I’m not saying you have to be absolutely sure about what you’re pushing. But I simply did not have the confidence you did about a vote for Osuka. So I wanted to see how people reacted to it. I really don’t think my approach was ridiculous at all.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:30 pm

In post 3080, Menalque wrote:But actually wait, explain more to me

Why did my level of certainty imply my alignment in relation to osuka? That’s what I’m not getting

Because aggressively asking for someone’s head is a great way to clear players, particularly early. If Osuka flips Scum, you really think I’m going to turn around and assume you’re Scum? The evidence would have to be overwhelming.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:32 pm

If Osuka flips Town, I would absolutely begin questioning your motivation. Why was the push so aggressive? Why did Menalque think it was so important to crowd out other voices and push for a specific player? I already said it doesn’t imply that you’re Scum necessarily. But I am absolutely looking at your slot much more carefully if Osuka flips Town.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:34 pm

In post 3083, Menalque wrote:I didn’t say it was ridiculous

I’m saying it worried me because I can absolutely see how scum!you seeing me start pushing and deciding to stay out of it during the wagon while not actively opposing it knowing that if I succeed in pushing the wagon through then (1) you get a free misguillo and (2) I’m significantly weakened and open to a push later, something that I don’t think scum!you realistically sees as viable today for instance

That’s not to say that I think you’re scum, but I had you pretty solidly as town, and you making posts that felt like you were setting up for a narrative in line with point (2) pinged me

But why do I have to stay away at all? You’re already taking the heat! You are already super aggressive towards Osuka and have posted all these reasons in thread. What Scum benefit do I derive from waiting there?

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:35 pm

If Osuka is Town, and you’re so over the top about your push that you even admit to providing cover for others, and you’re TR’ing me, why do I care to wait at all? That’s what I don’t understand. You’ve already given me all that I need to vote for Osuka and care very little about the consequences. So it definitely can’t be that.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:37 pm

In post 3089, Menalque wrote:
In post 2940, Andresvmb wrote:Menalque is either correct, Town, and will be completely obvious tomorrow. Or, he will try and sleaze his way out of a bad situation if Osuka flips Town, and we will have to make a decision as to whether he is worth listening to anymore, is Town, or is just Scum and needs to go.
This, in particular, is what bothered me

I know that later in the post you say it doesn’t necessarily make me scum but this felt a lot like a way to marginalise me in the case that I’m wrong on osuka

And now that I feel like there’s a meaningful chance I might be wrong on osuka, that’s concerning because scum!you already knows I’m coming out wrong

You know who expressed far more certainty that your push on Osuka was TvT? Plus. Go check.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:42 pm

But I had already expressed my reservations. They were out there. I don’t have to wait longer to be able to argue that - I’ve already said by then that I am not sure on Osuka, and I’ve quoted posts already that back up where my concerns are coming from. I don’t think I need to shield myself every which way in order to put a vote down. Like if I’m Scum, I’m overplaying there.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:44 pm

In post 3093, Menalque wrote:Also, one more thing: what do you think of osuka now? Like independently and in spite of your trouble reading him

What do you think of the way he reacted to me last night?

I think that it’s impossible for me to say definitively what the reaction even is. Now that you and Osuka agree that they were not active on site while avoiding this game (at least not in any meaningful way), why would they not be upset that you’re actively calling them a liar? It‘s very easy to get agitated at someone making a completely dubious argument against you.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:02 pm

In post 3100, Menalque wrote:And so what I’m looking for is a second opinion on that

I’ll give this some thought. I’m inclined to say that Scum would have probably used the opportunity much more effectively to make you look bad and build a wagon against you (which didn’t really happen), while avoiding some of the more emotional aspects. At least I have a hard time faking anger and annoyance as Scum, and Osuka seems calmer than me when I play Mafia so there’s that. But I think your question is very Osuka specific, and I just haven’t played with Osuka enough to be able to answer it.

Andresvmb · Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:26 am

VOTE: Kerset

Andresvmb · Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:30 am

NDMath is Town. Let’s stop wasting time.

Andresvmb · Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:31 am

We had a hard claimed Cop, who the Scum definitely must have believed, and Kerset who was a Claimed Doctor didn’t protect there? Please. That slot is flipping Scum always.

Andresvmb · Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:35 am

My solve is {Kerset, Bob, Ydrasse}. There’s an outside chance Tayl0r and plusJOYED are Scum, but I’ll push those slots later.

Andresvmb · Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:39 am

Can’t say that I care what you want to be honest haha I’m going to be on Kerset all day. Good luck convincing me that this slot isn’t Scum.

Andresvmb · Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:53 am

In post 3463, teacher wrote:Oh right, I forgot Saud said that. Yea, to me it seemed obviously fake? I think it was saud simply for being UTR.

Yeah to me too to be honest (way too obvious a misplay), but at the same time, Saudade came out and was seriously questioning Ydrasse for the hammer. That also probably got him killed.

Andresvmb · Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:58 am

In post 3433, bob3141 wrote:For anyone scum read me. so far this game has hard meta im town

The fact scum decided to shoot saud, a player that was clear VT. As scum i have massive hit rate when it comes to town pr.

In my last town game i spotted all town pr dayone.

You do always say this, I’ll give you that.

Andresvmb · Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:01 am

Okay I’ll hard claim this because it’s honestly kind of funny. I can confirm that NDMath is Ascetic. So nobody has to waste time trying to figure out if the Claim is true or not. Now whether it’s a claim coming from Town or Scum I don’t know, but I have a hard time seeing why NDMath as Scum would claim that.

Andresvmb · Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:05 am

I think this game is built in a way that the Town all have Scummy looking claims to be honest. I think the purpose of these negative Town roles was to make people suspicious.

Andresvmb · Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:08 am

I’m also going to point out that my 599 regarding my Town core is looking better and better by the minute.

Andresvmb · Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:11 am

Yeah I buy that Bob that’s fine. But you stay in my POE for now. Kerset is still very much the execution today.

Andresvmb · Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:13 am

Also shellyc is Town. Sorry for doubting you shelly. You got a bit overly aggressive there and that gave me some Scum pings. But I was wrong I think.

Andresvmb · Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:14 am

If Kerset actually flips Town btw nuke Teacher. But I have a feeling it won’t.

Andresvmb · Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:52 am

I’ve been thinking about it, and I think we need a massclaim. There’s a mechanic I’m not understanding. I’m a Town Checker. Yeah, Checker. I’m supposed to check for Ascetic. Since Teacher is informed of a Role Stopper for the Scum, I could be falling prey to a gambit by Scum. I think this makes Teacher almost always Town.

Andresvmb · Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:53 am

I think we need a full claim from NDMath.

Andresvmb · Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:54 am

Yeah I’m a Miller Town Checker. Frankly it’s a bit of a stupid Role.

Andresvmb · Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:58 am

Anyway I think I’m supposed to check which Scum was Rolestopped to protect from a Cop check. So I’ll be checking somebody from my pool. If they come back Ascetic, then we know they’re Scum. I might have to announce it. The Scum can’t kill us both.

Also, NDMath should be flipped this game at some point. I get Bob’s point now.

Andresvmb · Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:59 am

Let’s not do massclaim yet actually. That’s definitely correct.

Andresvmb · Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:57 am

In post 3499, teacher wrote:Finally, it’s now family/football time so I’m for a bit. Andres can you talk about choosing to check ndmath instead of Kerset?

They Claimed Ascetic. I wanted to ensure that was accurate. If you think about it, I think it’s entirely possible the Scum have a Rolestopper and a permanent Ascetic, which protects 2 out of the 3 Scum from a Cop check. Which is where my Role comes in. The counter to that is the fact that I’m also a Miller I guess, though I don’t know, the design of this game seems kind of funky for a Mini Normal. Anyway, I think your Informed makes a lot of sense in that context, which is why I’m completely ruling you out as Scum actually.

Andresvmb · Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:59 am

We’re practically in the same place considering your 3483. So I’ll check whichever one of Kerset/plus we don’t flip today. It’s highly likely I won’t be around to see tomorrow, but at least you know what I’m going to do.

Andresvmb · Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:13 am

Also Menalque is always Town I don’t think this needs to be said.

Andresvmb · Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:15 am

I think we need to blow up {Kerset, plusJOYED, NDMath}, and if the game isn’t over then pick your poison in {Tayl0r, Osuka}. Bob is probably fine. Ydrasse could have hammered to stop the move onto Kerset that Saudade wanted to push. I don’t know why that makes me dumb all of a sudden. Ydrasse very much sounded like Town but I don’t know that I would like gamble the whole game on it. Menalque and Teacher should be untouchable this game.

Andresvmb · Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:09 pm

In post 3543, Tayl0r Swift wrote:
In post 3491, Andresvmb wrote:Anyway I think I’m supposed to check which Scum was Rolestopped to protect from a Cop check. So I’ll be checking somebody from my pool. If they come back Ascetic, then we know they’re Scum. I might have to announce it. The Scum can’t kill us both.

Also, NDMath should be flipped this game at some point. I get Bob’s point now.
just because you got a result doesnt mean your target is town btw.

In post 3544, shellyc wrote:rolestopper usually rolestops scum

you should have kept that info tbh, rolestopper will now probably target town

The POE is not that large. And if the Cop is still with us tomorrow then the gambit will have paid off.

Andresvmb · Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:10 pm

In post 3576, shellyc wrote:misdirection?

@Adres are you a Universal Miller i.e. showing guilty to trackers and gunsmiths

It only talks about a Cop, not a Gunsmith. I highly doubt there’s a Gunsmith in this setup haha

Andresvmb · Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:11 pm

In post 3553, PlusJOYED wrote:tinfoil hat idea:
ndmath isn't ascetic at all. They have a mafia rolestopper and they rolestopped ndmath to give a pseudo obvtown as mafia

This is why I didn’t reveal yesterday. Because theoretically the Rolestopper using their role on NDMath would have been kind of silly since a theoretical Cop would not have really been expected to check there.

Andresvmb · Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:44 pm

In post 3533, bob3141 wrote:Kerset today you have not realy said so far who you think is scum.

You made a post bashing saude. You have not even claimed who you protected and why. So who then?

In post 3534, shellyc wrote:
In post 3459, Andresvmb wrote:My solve is {Kerset, Bob, Ydrasse}. There’s an outside chance Tayl0r and plusJOYED are Scum, but I’ll push those slots later.
do you think scum!ydrasse would have hammered iv? i still think it's TSTBS though especially since they were supposed to be the deepwolf

I would be careful because of the Saudade flip. Saudade might have been killed to make Ydrasse look bad (so that’s one thing to consider), but we still shouldn’t ignore it.

Andresvmb · Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:45 pm

^Also Bob Kerset is obvScum I’m not sure why you’re bothering.

Andresvmb · Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:46 pm

In post 3535, shellyc wrote:
In post 3473, Andresvmb wrote:Also shellyc is Town. Sorry for doubting you shelly. You got a bit overly aggressive there and that gave me some Scum pings. But I was wrong I think.
comfy pockets; but fwiw i want to see a bit more progression since you were definitely scumreading me yesterday

I can’t fit you in a Scum Team, is what it boils down to. I definitely think there’s way Scummier players than you.

Andresvmb · Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:47 pm

My check will be in {Osuka, plusJOYED}. I’ll keep it a 50/50 and interesting. Let’s see if the Scum can guess correctly.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:21 am

In post 3664, Menalque wrote:Andres, do you have a result?

I successfully checked Osuka, which means they were not Rolestopped. However, I still want to execute there.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:27 am

VOTE: Osuka

You will remember that Osuka voted for Kerset D1 as a policy and was desperately trying to get away from that vote when it hit 5.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:38 am

Osuka had a terrible D2 and their progression on Kerset D1 was not positive. Go take a look. Osuka was still trying to push you shelly and Menalque yesterday which honestly would seem weird for a Scum to do with Kerset under so much pressure but then I realized that Kerset was in fact trying to survive for some reason.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:40 am

In post 3694, shellyc wrote:@andres do you consider someone being rolestopped a cleared / guilty result?

because osuka's probably the no.1 scum rolestop target if it's scum!osuka

There is no way to tell what a Rolestopped result means anymore because I already revealed what I do. I just wanted to distract away from the Cop so we would get a result.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:41 am

Anyway I will only be voting in {Osuka, plusJOYED} today. And frankly the setup spec is all great but I would like to see some hard stances on players at this point from Bob.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:43 am

@Menalque I think they’re both likely to flip Scum. But that intense need to get away from Kerset I still remember. And that looks very much like Scum trying to avoid executing their buddy so early in the game.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:46 am

In post 1216, osuka wrote:
In post 1166, Tayl0r Swift wrote:
In post 1163, osuka wrote:Just realized I’m voting for kerset UNVOTE: kerset
so you dont realize your vote is on kerset for a long time despite being told but once sau unvotes you unvotes?
youre assuming that i read the thread

This is what I’m talking about.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:15 am

And Osuka was pushing IV as an alternative to Kerset when they Unvoted. I really don’t think this one should take a whole lot of heavy lifting. I was thinking about it and I would flip in {plusJOYED, Bob/NDMath} only after we’ve flipped Osuka. Osuka’s stances as a whole are completely against the Town here. And it’s really obvious.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:18 am

In post 3731, Menalque wrote:andres, feels on ydrasse/shelly?

I’m almost certain of shellyc Town. Ydrasse has dropped off considerably but I would have expected Scum to be more present with their game in a lot of pressure right now I would think. I would leave until later.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:21 am

In post 3737, Menalque wrote:what about shelly has you locktown on her?

and where would you put ydrasse in relation to NDmath?

Town
{InnocentVillager, Saudade, Teacher [Informed Loyal Cop]}
Lean Town
{Menalque, shellyc}
Slight Lean Town
{Tayl0r Swift, Ydrasse}
Neutral
{Bob}
Slight Lean Scum
{NDMath [Ascetic Claim - Confirmed]}
Lean Scum
{Osuka, plusJOYED}
Scum
{Kerset}

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:23 am

Oh you know what, that’s a decent catch actually. Yeah I mean that’s good.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:33 am

In post 3737, Menalque wrote:what about shelly has you locktown on her?

and where would you put ydrasse in relation to NDmath?

I would start doubting shellyc (and believe to have been thoroughly pocketed) if both plus and Osuka flip Town. Until such time, I’m not even going to question it. There’s a lot of attempts at solving, some good posts and pushing, not being afraid to state their view, and a lot of it vibing with my own thoughts. Particularly after the game state has stabilized somewhat.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:00 am

Nobody should hammer until we’ve had a chance to hear from everyone. I do think we need a bit more information.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:28 am

Days where the end result is a Scum execution are never wasted. And we have so much content to mine from D1, I’m not super worried about these later days being shorter.

Ydrasse should never be executed before plus though. I’ll say that.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:55 am

In post 2851, osuka wrote:
In post 2843, PlusJOYED wrote:osuka: iv or mena
this is correct but i said at some point that ill vote for bob if it looks like were getting a no lynch

This is why we aren’t doing Bob today. Osuka first. You can come at me later if this is wrong.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:57 am

In post 1065, osuka wrote:
In post 1034, Saudade wrote:Well its both.
Neither is a good behavior for town.
I dont like how osuka is playing either, if Kerset was any better maybe the wagon would've been on him right now.
Kerset's just worse
how is kerset worse

In post 1066, osuka wrote:getting vaguely scummy vibes from teacher right now but i dont think it warrants a vote quite yet

In post 1129, osuka wrote:I don’t think I’m too keen on getting rid of kerset just yet. The wagon feels off to me for one reason or another

Those of you on it, what are your reasons to lynch that slot

Again, I think it’s pretty obvious that Osuka has been anti-Town this whole time. All you have to do is go back and read.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:58 am

In post 1225, osuka wrote:i think plusjoyed can be town for now? I'm not entirely sure. towny vibes but i'm wary of him for some reason

In post 1233, osuka wrote:scum vibes from andres for distinctly indistinct reasons

In post 1236, osuka wrote:menalque's iso is interesting. feels like fabricated disagreement and reads that slowly drift towards consensus while never truly getting there, all the while trying to make it seem like the reads are naturally evolving. very odd

Can we just kill this slot already?

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:59 am

Anyway you all can take your time figuring out what you want to do. I really do think it’s extremely obvious that Osuka has a high chance to flip Scum.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:00 am

Either that or Osuka has horrendous reads and has been trying to push us away from Scum as Town. Which I guess would be sad? I somehow don’t think so though.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:18 am

So Osuka’s defense appears to be that I’m extra dense, and that they’ve had a terrible game. Hm.

@Osuka, so who is Scum then? I recommend you don’t answer with (I don’t know), since you very much seem to have had an idea of what you wanted to push up until now.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:24 am

And the “desperately” trying to get away is a bit hyperbolic from my part, sure, but the point was more that you clearly did not want to sit on Kerset, put a joke vote there, and then moved away onto a Town player (IV) and defended the slot. Very obviously you don’t deserve Town points for that progression, or any other for that matter.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:30 am

And you moved away from Kerset once meaningful, sustained pressure was put on Kerset by 4 other players, and that wagon began to slowly lose momentum.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:40 am

@Bob, I understand your defense is that based on your ability to understand setups, you would have figured out that an Informed Role was sitting next to a PR, and would have shot there first thing. I think you’ve made yourself abundantly clear.

You are obviously questioning Osuka, and I believe you have a Negative Lean there. You’ve also pushed NDMath before. Who would you knock out first out of NDMath/plusJOYED, if the choice was yours to make?

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:01 pm

In post 3829, osuka wrote:
In post 3751, Andresvmb wrote:
In post 3737, Menalque wrote:what about shelly has you locktown on her?

and where would you put ydrasse in relation to NDmath?
I would start doubting shellyc (and believe to have been thoroughly pocketed) if both plus and Osuka flip Town. Until such time, I’m not even going to question it. There’s a lot of attempts at solving, some good posts and pushing, not being afraid to state their view, and a lot of it vibing with my own thoughts. Particularly after the game state has stabilized somewhat.
assume i flip town. without a plus flip, whats your read on shelly?

If you flip Town I will re-evaluate my view of the game. In the meantime, I don’t see any reason to have to do so. I think shellyc is Town. And she has you as Lock Scum so if I’m wrong about you I’ll certainly reconsider her.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:03 pm

In post 3831, osuka wrote:
In post 3808, Andresvmb wrote:
In post 1065, osuka wrote:
In post 1034, Saudade wrote:Well its both.
Neither is a good behavior for town.
I dont like how osuka is playing either, if Kerset was any better maybe the wagon would've been on him right now.
Kerset's just worse
how is kerset worse

In post 1066, osuka wrote:getting vaguely scummy vibes from teacher right now but i dont think it warrants a vote quite yet

In post 1129, osuka wrote:I don’t think I’m too keen on getting rid of kerset just yet. The wagon feels off to me for one reason or another

Those of you on it, what are your reasons to lynch that slot
Again, I think it’s pretty obvious that Osuka has been anti-Town this whole time. All you have to do is go back and read.
please explain

I don’t feel like I have to explain this in a lot of detail. Your reads were clearly completely backwards as the quotes I’ve provided show, and you were still trying to vote someone outside of Kerset D2 as some of us were calling for their head. You could have been way off about everything and Town. Or you could be Scum. I am betting the second.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:39 pm

That’s not a Scum slip, but Osuka is still Scum.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:46 pm

In post 3841, osuka wrote:
In post 3840, Andresvmb wrote:
In post 3831, osuka wrote:
In post 3808, Andresvmb wrote:
In post 1065, osuka wrote:
In post 1034, Saudade wrote:Well its both.
Neither is a good behavior for town.
I dont like how osuka is playing either, if Kerset was any better maybe the wagon would've been on him right now.
Kerset's just worse
how is kerset worse

In post 1066, osuka wrote:getting vaguely scummy vibes from teacher right now but i dont think it warrants a vote quite yet

In post 1129, osuka wrote:I don’t think I’m too keen on getting rid of kerset just yet. The wagon feels off to me for one reason or another

Those of you on it, what are your reasons to lynch that slot
Again, I think it’s pretty obvious that Osuka has been anti-Town this whole time. All you have to do is go back and read.
please explain
I don’t feel like I have to explain this in a lot of detail. Your reads were clearly completely backwards as the quotes I’ve provided show, and you were still trying to vote someone outside of Kerset D2 as some of us were calling for their head. You could have been way off about everything and Town. Or you could be Scum. I am betting the second.
do you seriously think i'd just pretend read _everyone_ backwards if i were scum? i'm stupid but not that stupid

I didn’t say you did this to everyone. Just the most important slots. You sided horribly wrong when it came to Kerset, so you do have to flip I feel.

Talk to me about plusJOYED - what do you think of the slot?

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:47 pm

In post 3873, osuka wrote:are both of you stupid? you're clearly assuming i'm scum so under that assumption, i do have a nk at my disposal that i clearly shouldve used on shelly

my point is that the assumption doesnt hold because i would have every reason in the world to kill her, yet that never happened

Why do people feel like this is at all an appropriate way to speak to anyone?

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:47 pm

And you are Scum. Trying to somehow imply that shellyc would have been a better NK than Teacher is baffling.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:50 pm

Alright, just die. I don’t even care about your alignment, not that I don’t think you aren’t Scum.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:17 am

I think Osuka is the correct execution today, and will probably not move.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:34 am

Ugh you know what, VOTE: plusJOYED.

I don’t want to see posts about how Town is going to win from this slot with an Osuka execution. It makes me think this is wrong and I’m being played.

@Menalque can you get in here and make your opinion heard please?

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:42 am

@Bob, what are the odds that we have a Vengeful Townie this game?

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:45 am

Also, this defense that hard defending a buddy is not something you would do as Scum is, uhm, bad. How about pushing for actual Scum as Town?

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:47 am

I have to be honest, the odds that we have a Vengeful Townie this game are like 1%. It doesn’t fit with an Informed Loyal Cop, a Scum Rolestopper, an Ascetic, and a Miller Town Checker. I think it’s way overpowered (since it’s essentially a Day Vig that negates the Scum Rolestopper, which would be insane in a game with a Cop).

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:48 am

I’m not buying the claim at all, and all of the softing is completely counter-intuitive. So you want to be NK’ed so that you don’t have to shoot and narrow the POE further? This makes no sense.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:49 am

And you’re threatening to shoot Ydrasse? Why? Where is the Town consensus that this is the correct shot? And why are you making this threat when you’re not L-1?

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:59 am

I think the correct play is to execute plus, and have the shot be expended. I would rather have control as to the potential outcome of this game as Town rather than leave it in the hands of plus tomorrow (if he is Town, and shoots incorrectly, that knocks 3 players with the NK and we lose with a mis-elimination today and an NK).

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:22 am

So you think that in a game with a Cop that can clear people, Town gets a Role that can nuke one of the non-cleared slots? I agree it’s kind of a bad claim for Scum don’t get me wrong. I just don’t get it.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:23 am

VOTE: Osuka

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:39 am

UNVOTE:

I think I need to think about this game a lot. There’s something that isn’t quite right here.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:47 am

VOTE: Bob

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:47 am

I think if Bob flips green, then absolutely execute Osuka next.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:48 am

There’s a lot I can’t square about you Bob. We haven’t really talked about this much, but you were adamant about not voting Kerset D1. And you still seemed to be inching towards trying to help Kerset D2 under tremendous pressure. I’m not confused enough about my reads I don’t think that I need to blow up my core.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:49 am

I am fine with an execution between Bob and Osuka, but fine I’ll avoid plus for today.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:50 am

You’ve been mostly pushing to distrust Teacher in this setup, and ended there D1.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:51 am

You have some decent takes I think, arguing that Menalque is Town, siding with Shelly, and calling me Town. But I just can’t trust you here.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:52 am

And I think Osuka is almost too blatant to be Scum. Like they haven’t just been off right pushing something funky. They were WAY off. Arguing against almost a completely sunken Kerset D2 in a way that just didn’t make any sense. Under such intense pressure, Scum probably don’t want to stick out like a sore thumb.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:12 am

To be honest, I still very much think Osuka is Scum. I think Bob is Scum too. I think the odds of neither one of them being Scum is small. I don’t see how I vote anything else. Like I’m really trying to give everybody the benefit of the doubt, but I would be going against way too many Townies and current TR’s to do anything else.

Andresvmb · Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:14 am

There’s just bound to be Scum here. I don’t see how there isn’t. Way too much resistance to Kerset in these slots historically. Some bad pushes from both, and from Bob almost a deliberate attempt at staying away from the action. Like the push onto IV without a vote following the “slip”. And the shading of Teacher with some bad info that Teacher called out. I’m not seeing either slot as Town.

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:35 am

@Bob so my setup spec was bad huh?

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:20 am

In post 4277, bob3141 wrote:
In post 4037, Andresvmb wrote:There’s just bound to be Scum here. I don’t see how there isn’t. Way too much resistance to Kerset in these slots historically. Some bad pushes from both, and from Bob almost a deliberate attempt at staying away from the action. Like the push onto IV without a vote following the “slip”. And the shading of Teacher with some bad info that Teacher called out. I’m not seeing either slot as Town.

The only way for me to be scum is with you

So if you know your town then you know im town.

If i was scum here it would mean i want to be scum read. As ive got someone that noobody thinks could be my partner. Good thing im town.

Because scum me get players exasperated at how they just cant get me lynched. Last game i even surived being guiltied to win 3p lylo

You’re implying that we would be Scum together because we both pushed the same thing regarding IV. Except, I reversed that position to the point that I called the execution bad, which I don’t recall you doing. I don’t know why you’re even writing this to be honest.

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:33 am

4038 - I don’t think what we know about Teacher now backs up what you’re saying. Teacher *was* Informed. They were just also a Loyal Cop. And why would they Claim Cop? Why would you expect them to have done that? They were clearly leaving information out on purpose not to draw the NK. Which worked well btw. I don’t think your positioning makes sense regarding that slot. Like instead of admitting to reading Teacher wrong (which you did), you blame it on them for not revealing information that would have been helpful to Scum? And you seemed overly hung up on the fact that they mistook Roleblocker for Rolestopper.

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:35 am

What’s the Scum motivation for reversing a fake claim that doesn’t draw out any PRs for Town, ever?

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:37 am

Honestly I’m the first to say that plus has played a Scummy game. To be honest I am amazed at the amount of things plus has been able to pack in this game that make no sense. But I’m struggling a bit with trying to figure out why they would reverse the Claim here. Same day.

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:40 am

In post 4048, bob3141 wrote:innocentvillager [5]: Kerset, osuka, Andresvmb, Tayl0r Swift, PlusJOYED

s, osuka, andre, t , t

Highly unlikely that both osuka and andre are town. And i rather think andre is townie. He has sew sawed between me and osuka in townie way. rather than flip flopping

I love games with this many slips.

HOW DO YOU KNOW PLUS IS TOWN BOB.

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:59 am

But the flip did not reveal what information Teacher actually knew. It just stated that Teacher was Informed. Like I don’t understand this criticism. How is not revealing that information helpful to Town?

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:00 am

And it does provide an advantage, when combined with my slot. I just don’t agree at all.

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:01 am

My mistake was in checking NDMath. I should have checked a Role I SR. That would have been as good as a red check. I probably would have done Kerset anyway and not much would have changed to be totally honest.

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:03 am

And why are you pairing me with Osuka in that wagon analysis? Honestly Bob, I think you’re Scummy Scum.

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:06 am

Except that you attacked them when they did crumb it. It’s almost as if you are totally forgetting how D1 happened.

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:08 am

In post 4295, bob3141 wrote:
In post 4288, Andresvmb wrote:
In post 4048, bob3141 wrote:innocentvillager [5]: Kerset, osuka, Andresvmb, Tayl0r Swift, PlusJOYED

s, osuka, andre, t , t

Highly unlikely that both osuka and andre are town. And i rather think andre is townie. He has sew sawed between me and osuka in townie way. rather than flip flopping
I love games with this many slips.

HOW DO YOU KNOW PLUS IS TOWN BOB.

Hate to say it but thats is just dumb.

You see analysis and you think its slip. lol

You do realize that I was clearly kidding right? I even put it in caps for added effect. Though this might be something to look back to if you do flip Scum.

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:10 am

In post 2118, bob3141 wrote:
In post 1956, teacher wrote:
In post 1944, shellyc wrote:i am *alright* with a kerset lim but at the same time I'm afraid they are actually doctor
Gated doc in a game that lasts at most 5 nights = pretty weak Pr.

We have two anti-town town roles claimed, implying that town must have some decently strong PRs including some kind of investigative (Miller)

If town has two strong PRa plus gated doc (the kind of power that would justify two antitown roles), then scum likely has at least gated rolestopper.

Given suspicions of Kerset, scum do not shoot but instead block (at least when town reads become sufficiently common that they are worried about overlap).

This is why I think town has to resolve the Kerset slot. I don’t think scum does it for us. And I don’t think waiting for later makes it easier to eliminate a claimed PR.

If ever scum roleblocker type role flips. Teachs scum equity goes up.

Why go straight to roleblocker. Why discount scum hvaing tracker/ rolecop type roles

Like right here.

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:17 am

But Bob I don’t understand your insistence in defending your positioning towards Teacher. You were wrong. Teacher was Town. And they did exactly what you expected them to do as an Informed Role. They crumbed it first, and when you attacked them for it, they just revealed that they had that information. Also I think because they misunderstood how the role worked and it was important in the context of a claimed Doctor.

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:19 am

I never interpreted Teacher to be panicking to be honest. The reason you’re adopting this stance is simple in my head. You’re trying to make others dismiss Teacher’s concerns about your slot because otherwise you look Scummy in having pushed the Town (Loyal) Cop.

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:23 am

I think there’s some good reasons you defended the Vengeful Claim as Scum too. Obviously you were trying to curry favor there either to not get shot or move the shot towards a Townie. If you’re as good at setup spec as you claim to be, you would have IMMEDIATELY cast doubt on the claim. I know I did. And I’m not nearly as good as I think you are in this particular department. It’s like you want others to believe that you would have always shot a Town PR N1 as Scum. But then you fall for a simple claim that was dubious in the context of the claims we have? I can’t square the two.

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:09 am

In post 4307, bob3141 wrote:
In post 4305, Andresvmb wrote:I think there’s some good reasons you defended the Vengeful Claim as Scum too. Obviously you were trying to curry favor there either to not get shot or move the shot towards a Townie. If you’re as good at setup spec as you claim to be, you would have IMMEDIATELY cast doubt on the claim. I know I did. And I’m not nearly as good as I think you are in this particular department. It’s like you want others to believe that you would have always shot a Town PR N1 as Scum. But then you fall for a simple claim that was dubious in the context of the claims we have? I can’t square the two.
because there is hole in claimed town power. There is difference in knowing what inst possible and what is. And more importantly what is likely. Vengful was entirely possible unless there was more claims to town power

informed loyal cop
you role ( miller taht inst a flase guility, a role that is largely useless on its own. )

is no way on its own is that enough town power. Would never get past review.

The less town power roles. The stronger combined they have to be and thats why town power tends to be broken up in several roles.

What isnt a possible role informed on its own. With out some vital info that layer alone must know. Otherwise they dont get put in from design point of view. As it would be superfluous with games more often becoming semi open instead. see noms game i referenced.

Why are you behaving as if it was completely unreasonable to Scum Read you? You defended Kerset. Hard. You pushed IV (as did I, no doubt). You didn’t vote for Kerset. You pushed Teacher. And you minimized Saudade’s doubt of Kerset. Like why am I an idiot because I don’t agree with you here?

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:12 am

And even though you did conclude that I was Town and Osuka was likely to be Scum based on your wagon analysis, you are still saying that there’s Scum amongst us two. So you are pairing me with Osuka. That doesn’t mean you’re arguing we’re both the Team. I don’t think I’m saying anything egregious.

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:16 am

And why are you ignoring that I’m not just Miller, but also Town Checker?

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:17 am

I don’t think I’m arguing that you’ve made rookie mistakes at all actually. Your position on Kerset is reasonable on the face of it. You never hard SR there before the claim, and you have a post where you express some limited suspicion based on the fact that Kerset didn’t push anybody hard. And that was smart since there was pressure building there quickly. But you also seem to question others for their progressions there, like Tayl0r. And then after the claim, you do the smart thing and hard defend Kerset. Which obviously is understandable I made the same argument and agreed with you. Which is why Saudade for example probably died - for expressing interest there with the Claim. And your probing of Kerset D2 is great, but it came much after there was a tremendous amount of pressure on Kerset already. If you’re Scum, it is exactly what I would have expected. Because hard defending there *could* work, but it puts you in a terrible spot if it does wrong. Like Osuka, and to a lesser extent plus.

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:18 am

^goes wrong.

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:22 am

And yeah you never voted IV. I know, I made a comment about that. It’s almost as if you piled on but never fully put your vote there, which makes you look good in hindsight. Except, it’s not quite what Menalque did for example now is it? To hard defend IV and clearly show that it was silly and urged me not to abandon my initial read.

So you see, I am arguing this is all actually tough game play to see as Scum, but if you look closely, it doesn’t look good. Same for the shading of Teacher. You can argue that it is reasonable. And hell, maybe it is. I just think that Teacher clearly had suspicions of your slot. So I am working through them as best as I can.

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:23 am

Anyway, I’ll just do this for now.

VOTE: Osuka

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:24 am

Plus and Osuka should theoretically cross-vote, leaving the decision in Menalque’s hands.

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:36 am

[4329] through [4331] are all for Bob in case it wasn’t clear.

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:32 am

In post 4335, osuka wrote:
In post 4333, Andresvmb wrote:Plus and Osuka should theoretically cross-vote, leaving the decision in Menalque’s hands.
this is dumb

Then don’t vote for your own survival and get executed. Theoretically that can happen too.

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:34 pm

I don’t recall actively asking you to vote plus. And even if I had, I still think that slot is suspicious. So I’m not understanding your point at all.

You and plus are the leading wagons with 3 votes each, and you are both not voting each other. Purely out of a sense of survival, I expect the both of you to cross-vote. That was my point. But nice shade there.

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:01 pm

@Menalque you better get in here and vote.

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:11 pm

No I think this is wrong. The positioning Osuka is doing does not mean that we’re going to hit red here.

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:12 pm

@Tayl0r you need to move.

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:13 pm

I need to speak better English. I don’t expect Bob to flip red based on what Osuka is saying.

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:13 pm

Osuka compromising with you just to get Bob through literally makes no sense. It should be raising major red flags for you too.

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:18 pm

With shellyc moving onto Bob, plus is no longer viable right now. You should switch to Osuka I feel.

Andresvmb · Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:19 pm

In post 4362, shellyc wrote:make that osuka = plus

@andres so you think town!bob + scum!osuka and osuka's trying to push it on bob here? can you elaborate

It’s possible? At first glance it sure seems like it.

Andresvmb · Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:07 am

I think the positioning that Osuka was doing was either a gambit, or Scum that wants to survive. I think they’re both likely to be Scum in all honesty, but I still think Osuka flips Scum more often than Bob does. I could just hammer Bob and get it over with.

Andresvmb · Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:09 am

Actually Bob only has 3 votes. So I can’t do that.

Andresvmb · Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:16 am

VOTE: Bob

Andresvmb · Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:18 am

Alright I just hammered Bob. I forgot to claim intent. Oops.

Andresvmb · Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:54 am

Uhm, VOTE: Osuka. We really should have done this yesterday.

Andresvmb · Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:55 am

Sigh. I should also re-read. I want to see if there’s something I’m missing.

Andresvmb · Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:07 am

I also think plus is Scum. So he should be summarily ignored. We’re not doing Shelly today.

Andresvmb · Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:07 am

@Menalque I need to get your opinion here.

Andresvmb · Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:11 pm

Osuka is full of bad hot takes and needs to get taken out.

Andresvmb · Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:16 pm

In post 4416, Menalque wrote:Oh, that is a spicy take

You’ve already talked about Shelly, explain the Andres take?

Why are you entertaining this exactly?

Andresvmb · Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:10 pm

In post 4440, shellyc wrote:
In post 4437, PlusJOYED wrote:another thing to note is that me and osuka have been on the same page unabashedly most of the time, so much so that I don't think a plus/osuka team makes sense. I might be deep pocketed by Osuka but I think that's unlikely; it doesn't make sense for Osuka to play so risky as scum imo.
there’s the words too scummy to be scum

fwiw I think joyed is pocketed town really and the solve is osuka math?

What leads you to this conclusion? As in what specific posts make you think that plus is pocketed and not just Scum? And why NDMath?

I’ll be honest, I think we need to first get a flip of Osuka before we speculate any further. Once that is achieved, and if Osuka flips Scum, I will start worrying about who is more or less Scummy. But until that happens, I think we’ll be mostly wasting our time. I’ll say this - I don’t buy anything that plus is saying right now. None of it. Are they seriously claiming they can’t be partnered with Osuka because it would be too blatant? Please.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:18 am

In post 4449, shellyc wrote:osuka is just nonsensically trying to last-ditch avoid a miselim
what is possible town motivation to spit out nonsense reads
Andres is a claimed checker

Yes this is my point. At this stage, I don’t see an alternative than figuring out what’s going on with Osuka.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:05 am

In post 4481, Menalque wrote:I'd like to know where Ydrasse's head is at

I'd like to hear osuka's ~*spicy*~ andres take

and I'd like andres to talk to me about osuka/plus/math and whether osuka is necessarily the best guillo today, particularly with reference to my earlier points on (1) plus's moving read on math throughout the game and (2) math's big "here's why I can't be scum with plus" post out of the blue at a time when there wasn't really any pressure there anyway

There is no world where I’m compromising on an Osuka execution.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:06 am

I am simply not convinced that any other execution is as likely to result in Scum.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:07 am

Osuka has the worst takes even after flips from players he should trust. Almost every single person that has flipped has called me Town. Unless I’m a complete idiot, I would have kept some of those players in the hopes of surviving longer as Scum.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:11 am

Like I don’t ever have to even begin to question Ydrasse, or push Bob. And what, I had Teacher and Saudade pocketed then? Just, no. That take is horrendous.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:12 am

And does anybody think that my interactions with Kerset or my push against Kerset was SvS? It’s ridiculous.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:13 am

Like enough entertaining this sort of nonsense. Kerset had a horrible take of my slot and I thought that was revealing. I think Osuka’s positioning has also been quite revealing.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:29 am

I’m not going to ELo with Osuka still in this game. It seems like a terrible idea to me.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:30 am

There’s a small chance (not one I really believe in, but a small chance) that plus is terrible Town. I’m not gambiting in this position. Eliminate the obvious first, and then look for the harder solve.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:37 am

Osuka needs to be executed. Put simply, it is far more revealing than any other flip, with the gigantic upside that I’m almost sure it flips Scum.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:40 am

If I’m throughly overruled on this though, I

will

vote for plus. I just think that it is massively beneficial to start with Osuka. It helps me with Menalque. It solves shellyc. And it continues to sink plus if it flips red. If it doesn’t, then we really need to re-evaluate the whole game. A plus elimination simply doesn’t force me to re-evaluate to the same extent if it’s wrong. It just has to happen.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:42 am

Like yeah, my POE at this stage really is just {Osuka, plus}. NDMath has an outside chance of Scum for sure. But if Osuka is wrong, it really changes everything for me.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:44 am

In post 4531, Ydrasse wrote:andres, you're town right? you wouldn't try to lead us all astray?

I am Town. I have read through in detail to try and make sure I’m not coming across as an idiot. Could I be wrong? Sure. However, I should have very much trusted my gut yesterday and not voted for Bob. I’m still annoyed I helped with that.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:46 am

But I think if you apply the smell test to my posting and position in the game, I think you’ll quickly realize that it would be extremely difficult to pull off what I’ve done so far if I was Scum. And some of it just plainly doesn’t make sense.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:48 am

In post 4534, PlusJOYED wrote:Do you think I'm scum if osuka is red andres?

If Osuka flips Scum, I would flip you only to ensure that you’re not in ELo. See the thing is, I want us to win. And for that to happen, we need to execute Scum and avoid any traps. We still have one more mis-elimination left if Osuka does in fact flip red. I would absolutely burn that on you.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:50 am

If Osuka flips green, then A LOT has gone wrong. And I would rather find out now than leave it for later.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:56 am

Yeah but solving this game would be hard anyway if Osuka is green. So we need to figure that out. I SR the slot, they’ve been pushing me wrong now, and they defended Kerset aggressively. I really do think we’re hitting Scum here. But if we don’t, then we need to know. It’s that simple.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:59 am

There’s also one post by Kerset (you can go find it but it might help clear up why I have this view of Osuka) that basically says that defending Scum aggressively is a bit of a death sentence, and a Partner wouldn’t really do that. I think that’s exactly what the Scum have been aiming for this game, particularly after a few people made themselves obvious Town.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:01 am

The fact that Kerset was aiming to still try and survive after a few of us came out so aggressively against the slot was also puzzling. But yeah, I think that if Osuka flips red, shellyc is always Town. I would take that one read to the bank.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:05 am

Yeah I mean that post by Osuka confirms it right. shellyc v. Osuka I think is not SvS. At least I doubt it Osuka was pushing shellyc before trying to compromise with the slot to potentially vote for Bob. One of them is surely Scum.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:09 am

In post 3518, Kerset wrote:
In post 3484, Ydrasse wrote:yeah i think the simplest solve for me rn is plus/kerset/osuka.
So your idea is that plus as my partner could avoid voting me untill the end? My wagon had 0 reluctance, this would be a suicide.

Here is what I was talking about.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:10 am

Also Kerset shaded shellyc in their initial post coming into D2. Like between the two I know exactly where my vote needs to be.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:13 am

In post 2351, Kerset wrote:
In post 2345, shellyc wrote:kerset is scum and we need to lim this today

their ISO has 0 content
Show me content in ISO of your sugar daddy saude

In post 2356, Kerset wrote:SHOW ME A QUOTE FROM MY ISO THAT PROVES YOUR POINT SHELLY
YOU CAN'T? HAHA I CAN'T DISCUSS WITH YOU, BECAUSE YOU GOT NO FACTS

In post 2379, Kerset wrote:townlean

And this reinforces the dichotomy I think too.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:13 am

In post 4552, PlusJOYED wrote:
In post 4548, Andresvmb wrote:Yeah I mean that post by Osuka confirms it right. shellyc v. Osuka I think is not SvS. At least I doubt it Osuka was pushing shellyc before trying to compromise with the slot to potentially vote for Bob. One of them is surely Scum.
agreed
i'd prefer to flip shelly over osuka though

Yeah not happening.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:22 pm

@Menalque I’m here if you want to speak in real time.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:26 pm

I really don’t care to read this back and forth between shellyc and Osuka. I do admit that the Unvote by Shelly of Osuka is kind of weird. What are you afraid of exactly? Why the backtrack?

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:26 pm

But yeah I honestly feel like you all are just going in circles.

And Osuka I would really like to see you try to explain why I’m Scum.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:35 pm

If you actually think Osuka is Scum, why are you concerned that they day might end early with their execution? I’m never worried about my SR’s dying an early death.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:00 pm

Osuka honestly it’s nothing personal. I am trying to solve this game in somewhat of a simple way, and I just think I need to work through a few flips I am thinking will turn out okay before I throw out my entire view of the game.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:02 pm

You’ve put a lot of pressure on shellyc for two days in a row, and shellyc was the first vote on Kerset and has been trying to work with me. I need to see you flip green before I’m convinced she’s Scum here.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:03 pm

I also have a negative view of plus, and they have been too resistant to a push onto you. And then they had this odd statement that they wouldn’t be Scum with you. Almost admitting that you’re going to flip red but not wanting to be associated with that.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:04 pm

Now that last one is a bit associative so maybe not completely fair.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:05 pm

But I would like to better understand what happened when Menalque pushed you as hard as he did for example. And flipping you just solves the game for me almost.

Andresvmb · Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:11 pm

I don’t know. I TR Menalque, I’m not seeing Ydrasse’s posts in a Scummy light. I’m fine trying to sort through the other slots first.

Andresvmb · Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:20 pm

@Mod I’m going to be low activity over the next several days I’m out camping.

I’m fine with my vote btw. I’ll be checking sporadically but I do think this needs to happen.

Andresvmb · Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:38 pm

If Osuka flips Town nuke shellyc.

Andresvmb · Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:40 pm

And reconsider Menalque for sure. I think Menalque is Town to be totally honest but they might have made the best out of a bad situation with Kerset and I would re-read the push onto Osuka D1.

Andresvmb · Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:41 pm

I don’t understand this claim from NDMath. It’s a weird one.

@NDMath have you used it every night?

Andresvmb · Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:47 pm

I wish I had a certain Town. I don’t. This game has been harder than I thought it would be towards the beginning.

Andresvmb · Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:49 pm

Ydrasse if it helps I have you the top of my list as Town. But if Osuka flips Town I would just re-read and re-evaluate every single slot no exceptions.

Andresvmb · Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:25 am

I am a little annoyed I will admit at Town self-voting in ELo. I understand that you think the game is almost over there plus and I agree that was a tough situation to get out of. But next time accept the defeat instead of speeding it up.

Mafia played well man. We should have listened to Osuka who played a good game. This was a bit of a down game for me so I apologize. I had a bad feeling about Menalque after seeing Osuka’s flip, but I think Menalque did well, and the bussing of Kerset was well done.

Andresvmb · Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:27 am

Good job Mod! I have a lot of thoughts about the setup but why bother? Hahaha it was fun so that’s all good.

Andresvmb · Sat Oct 10, 2020 6:21 am

I really should have listened to Osuka and in part after they flipped I’m glad I did. I just wasn’t around to make anything happen. I constantly re-evaluated Menalque and Shellyc and always came to the wrong conclusion. Definitely a bummer for me. And I did all of the hard work of sidelining the one person that was actually on point in Osuka, and I wasn’t fair to plus. Most of my Town Reads actually turned out okay and I’m glad I was sure of Ydrasse, but overall not a good game for me.

Andresvmb · Sat Oct 10, 2020 6:26 am

Sigh plus made a few mistakes that really colored my view of him, and I should have been more understanding. The backup Jailkeeper claim was laughable honestly hahaha I had a good chuckle at that.

Andresvmb · Sat Oct 10, 2020 6:28 am

And yes I told you that the Claim did not make any sense hahaha it just happened to come from Town.

Andresvmb · Sat Oct 10, 2020 6:31 am

There’s a player that I respect that told me that putting every single read you have out there when you’re really not sure or don’t have a good reason for is not a good idea. I should have listened to that advice this game.

Andresvmb · Sat Oct 10, 2020 6:31 am

Anyway, onto the next one.

Also, my very first post this game was so on point. DAMMIT.

Andresvmb · Sat Oct 10, 2020 6:31 am

In post 209, Andresvmb wrote:VOTE: shellyc

I’m not losing to you twice!

AAAAA