Open 90 - Trendy and Subversive C9 Mafia Wins! before 656

[farside22]

vote: Mirth

She is stalking me and I'm scared.

[farside22]

Well this random voting stage isn't going anywhere fast.

Obligatory

Unvote, Vote: Retrowiz

for putting a player L-2 on page 1! Sure fire lynch here; this tell is never wrong.

Man it's been many many months since I have been in a game this small I didn't even notice that it takes 4 votes to lynch. I don't think its real vote worry since this is a random stage, but it's a good thing to remember. Azrael hasn't even come in yet. I think with random voting pretty much done except for one player who has yet to check in.

unvote:

So Mirth why are you following me around? Are you scum? Have you played a 7 player game before?
Retrowiz did you mean to place a second vote on sekinj or was that just a random vote?

[farside22]

If I wasnt happy with my vote on Farside I'd be voting you now, Strife.

Hold it. What the heck? You voted me I thought as a joke, but now it seems you were serious?

[farside22]

It was only sort of a joke and not random. I find it interesting that you only now pick up on that particular post after Strife already mentioned it. Any explanation why you only comment after he did?

Strife: In all seriousness now, I think you're being a bit hasty and this strikes me as suspicious. I am, however, not going to vote you (yet) because I'm leaving my vote on Farside for a reason.

Did you notice I posted 3 minutes after your comment to strife about me? I didn't even notice it when I typed my first comment to you. We may have been typing about the same time, but I get distracted as I do this while I'm "working".

[farside22]

Fair enough. As to why I'm voting you:

Since I've been in a bunch of games with you, I've come to realize that you're darned hard to get a read on either way. Thought I'd vote you and see how you react. Congratulations, you pass for now.

unvote:Farside

I've decided to just vote you from here on in if you are going to follow me. I think I need a bodyguard.
Seriously it's not like I was worried about it. I just thought the second comment was weird.
retrowiz: You are not making any sense. Why would you care that you voted for the wrong person? A second vote is a BW but if someone quickly follows that vote that to me would be a BW vote and someone I would look very suspicious.

[farside22]

cuase I think random voting is stuuupid.

It can be informative and in a 7 player game with 4 votes to lynch it can be very interesting to see how and what people react to when voted for.

[farside22]

I do think putting pressure on people because of small mistakes is valuable, but retro's error has been explained to my satisfaction.

There where would a game go if we didn't point out small "errors" or ask questions and put pressure on people after the random vote stage?

[farside22]

I do think putting pressure on people because of small mistakes is valuable, but retro's error has been explained to my satisfaction.

There where would a game go if we didn't point out small "errors" or ask questions and put pressure on people after the random vote stage?

The game would go no where fast. I was AGREEING that putting pressure on people for small mistakes was GOOD. However, in the case of retro's error, I am satisfied with his answer.

I think I need to read things better. I see that now.

[farside22]

vote:Azrael

w.t.f.? Why are we talking about killing on page 3? Also major scum points for planning a kill.

Retro is not off the hook for me though.

I'm trying to figure out between Azrael, Retro and sekinj what the heck is going on.
With sekinj I wonder why the explaination is enough. I mean it sounds like Retro is confused, but his back and forth explanination for a simple vote is really just weird. It wasn't necessary at all.
Retro's well see above.
As for Azrael just missing the comments completely and voting for sekinj. Why? I mean really why point out either sekinj or Strife as possible scum. This seems to go off of Retro's "mistake" comment.

FOS: Azrael
FOS: Retro
FOS: sekinj

[farside22]

@Az: not good, man. bad mistake to make. You look very scummy now.

Why do you think sekinj made a mistake, but Azrael001 did not?

[farside22]

Sorry I have a lot on my mind as of late.

@ sekinj: Why do you think Retro correction isn't scummy, but Azrael001 mistake is scummy?

[farside22]

Not ignoring game. Very busy RL issue has come up for tomorrow. I will be on this Wednesday. Thanks.

[farside22]

Oh, and before I forget, since Retro is so insistent that I go do something with my time, starting this weekend, I'm going to go into some training (evenings/weekends). This will last a couple of weeks, and while I'll still be able to check the forums every day, my posting rate will probably reduced from either busyness or exhaustion.

Retract the claws!

Okay I read thru a bit yesterday when I had 10 minutes to myself, but all my notes went like the wind. Here is what I recall.
Retro asked about my comment towards Sek and frankly it's exactly as Mirth stated. She is defending you and I want to know her reasons for why she feels one way about a person versus another.
Newbie card is something I have started to consider a null tell. I have seen scum newb and town newb pull the newb card on any number of games. Some try not to, most fail.
I'm not sure what to think about Az. I have never seen someone post and not realize there was more pages to read before posting. First I thought was that a random joke, then as he explained further I was like how does someone do that? Just didn't make sense. Now the whole comment about Sej is town sounds more like someone trying to kiss up then really talking about why or who is scum.
Some people I just don't have a read on at the moment so I'm holding off on voting till I get a better read on those that I feel are flying under the radar.

[farside22]

Retro asked about my comment towards Sek and frankly it's exactly as Mirth stated. She is defending you and I want to know her reasons for why she feels one way about a person versus another.

i already answered this.

I know you did I was answering Retro's question directed to me.

[farside22]

[quote="retrowiz"but have fun on your vacation, I'm sure you deserve it!

Vacation? Haha...I didn't realize giving up nights and weekends was a vacation.

Also huge FOS at you for even suggesting masons.

Iam, why am I scummy. Reasons would be great. And why do you think I'm scum with Farside specifically? Couldn't I be bussing newbie-partner-Retro or Az?[/quote]

I will be gone Monday too. It is 3 day weekend.

[farside22]

@mirth: Why did you think an extension was needed? This actually makes me more suspicous of you, cause it makes you look like you are trying to hard to be townie.

I know this wasn't directed at me, but as I was reading I was about to ask for an extension when I saw the mod's note. My reason's is that this is a busy week for me and I will be gone Labor day weekend. Maybe Mirth had her reason's for asking too. I dont' know, but I don't think it's scummy.

[farside22]

Read through the game finally have some good notes. This will be long.

Azrael001: Post 59 the out of no where comment and planning lynches in advance comment. Final got some answers. Some appeal to emotion comments.
sekinj : Post 24: Why did you think Strife's vote was random? Mostly good comments stated. Very thoughtful on what is going on in the game.
Mirth: Post 50: I don't understand how Mirth can drop someone as a suspect so quickly to focus on someone else. She had her suspcioun on Strife, but dropped it rather quickly for Retro. Just odd considering how she sticks to one person for a bit before moving on to the next. Post 53: Why are you so quick to attack Sej, but didn't say anything to Iam about his comment? Post 64: Where do you see Retro as backtracking? Post 99 just an observation at this point. I noted that even though you are keeping the conversation going you have not said much to Iam or Strife. You seem to be heavily leaning on either Retro, Az or Sek. Why them alone?
retrowiz - post of the vote, unvote, new vote weirdness. Post 45 does seem to explain his thoughts better. Still feel wary.
strife220 - post 11: Question why do you think putting someone at L-2 on page 1 was scum. (Sure fire lynch here; this tell is never wrong.) Have you seen scum do this before in another game? Post 27 answers the second question, but I never really saw sarcasm in post 11. Post 30 I hate to repeat people, but yeah I didn't see that as a random vote. Post 107 I disagree with you about retro's comment being "over-acting" I really don't get that. Also I don't like the newbie card, but it really is a null tell in my book as I have seen newbs do it often no matter their alignment.
iamausername - Post 84: Meta on me is over rated. I'm telling you I'm either scummy to people no matter my alignment or town no matter my alignment. Don't hurt yourself trying to figure me out.

My read tells me next to nothing on Iamausername. I don't understand how Mirth attacks Az for not commenting on things when I felt someone of Iam's post feel under the same category. Some of Mirth's actions I felt questionable. She is attacking only 3 people, but lets others off who do the same thing she is question of others. I'm leaning with Retro, Mirth or Az. Strife and Iamuser have that I'm not sure what to think.
Would like some answers to my questions first.

[farside22]

@mirth: Why did you think an extension was needed? This actually makes me more suspicous of you, cause it makes you look like you are trying to hard to be townie.

Because I don't like the pace of this game and I almost always beg for deadline extensions?

Retro: because I feel like asking now.

Farside: because it's what I do when I'm appeased, I did respond to Iam's comment in 50, actually, you must have missed, Retro's explanation is a whole lot of backtracking (i didn't mean to vote them but its still random!). Why those people alone, because they're currently holding my attention. This may or may not change.

Retro: I don't particularly care if you vote me, but please do so for a valid reason. Look at the kinds of questions we're answering for each other. Really darn obvious ones that anyone could address. Besides, if we were scum together, you'd think we'd being trying to associate?

No I saw you address Iam, but you didn't attack him when he defended Retro as Sej did. Why does he get a free pass?
Please no WIFOM.
Also mostly I stated my thoughts on the extension and reasons why I was planning on asking for one. But I still don't see it as a scummy act to ask for a deadline no matter when it's asked.

[farside22]

I will stop answering question for anyone but myself.
With that said I'm leaving myself voteless while gone on vacation so no craziness kids.

[farside22]

Quick everyone get Farside while he's gone!

(note this is a joke, please don't take it seriously.)

How about a scum list from you while I'm gone?

[farside22]

Hi all. I'm back and got sick over the weekend.
I will read and see if I can come up with something that I hope doesn't sound like gibberish.

[farside22]

sekinj: Retro didn't make any comments after your comment about his play. Why did you not vote for him then? Why vote for him now? Was this based on a reread?
Also I don't know who Mirth could be scum with. I feel Iam is pushing her, but his vote is not on her. So some of there interaction is questionable to me. I don't see strife/ Mirth pair either.

[farside22]

My vote stayed off during my vacation. I didn't want a quick lynch while I was gone. Also there are so many people pinging my scumdar.
Mirth and Iam interaction that bugged me early on.
sekinj change of heart after a reread is questionable
Retro's weird unvote, vote and newbie card
Azrael's asking for the cop to claim.
I'm surprised that Mirth didn't question Sekinj further. Even with what she brought up retro never reacted or stated anything from her one post to her vote for him.
I'm feeling either Mirth or Azrael scum at the moment.

[farside22]

My vote stayed off during my vacation. I didn't want a quick lynch while I was gone. Also there are so many people pinging my scumdar.
Mirth and Iam interaction that bugged me early on.
sekinj change of heart after a reread is questionable
Retro's weird unvote, vote and newbie card
Azrael's asking for the cop to claim.
I'm surprised that Mirth didn't question Sekinj further. Even with what she brought up retro never reacted or stated anything from her one post to her vote for him.
I'm feeling either Mirth or Azrael scum at the moment.

retro not responding to me, or any other arguments effectively was another reason I voted for him.

What did he not answer? Or are you saying his answers were lacking? I'm confused.
Iamausername do you think Az lastest comment isn't disconcerning in the least? You seem to be the only one really defending him.
Mirth: I honestly never know what to say to a person going to a funeral.

[farside22]

I think Az is the scummiest. Mirth and Retro are about even for different reason's. If Az turns scum I will be looking at Iam.

vote: Azrael001

[farside22]

farside wrote:
Mirth and Iam interaction that bugged me early on.


What interaction was this?

Just mostly the fact that I felt and still feel Mirth was ignoring you and what you said and focusing more on others. You would say something that someone else stated and she just glossed over your comment, but attacked others.

[farside22]

Deadline is tomorrow. I won't be around much longer and weekends I am lucky to post once or twice. So if anyone wants to say anything? Strife last thoughts. Iam any last thoughts from you?

[farside22]

Hi. Read thru to see if anything is ringing any bells for me. Scum list should be submitted by all. Top 2 or 3 scum suspects and why. Will be doing as much myself after my read thru.

[farside22]

Farside 195: why Iam if Az is scum?

I felt Iam was defending Az more then anyone. If Az had turned up scum I would be looking at Iam more for that interaction.

If everyone agrees that the deputy should out him/herself, I think we should do it in a popcorn claim style; vote on a person to go first claiming deputy or not deputy, then they pick the next person, and so on until we've all claimed.

I think if there was a deputy they would have said something by now. Doing this just seems like a waste of time.

I'm thinking mirth/ iamusername pair (I will have to look at what Mirth stated in regards to her giving him a free pass). Or Sek/ Retro pairing.
I'm leaning more Retro/ Sek at the moment however for a couple of reasons.
1) retro's newbie card play and back and forth wishy washiness.
2) Sek's back and forth play of defending Retro and then voting for him. Feels like someone might be bussing a partner to me.

[farside22]

Well after realizing that I didn't read part of the thread, I reread it, then posted my opinions. The posts aren't that long, and there are only 25ish posts per page. Catching up took about twenty minutes (probably, this was the other day I can't remember exactly and I don't care enough to check). I almost never base my suspicions on mistakes, but rather on tone and word choice. It usually serves me well.

If you want to lynch me for a dumb mistake go ahead, but it would be a mistake.

being a newbie to this game, I've made mistakes in every game I plaed, and learned from them, but how does "tone and word choice" possibly help? is there a list of words to use if scum VS. town? since your experienced at this game I'd love to be educated on that! I figured most experienced players would have a good poker face and be consistant with tone and word choice in all games.

This statement is playing a newbie card in my opinion.

[farside22]

lol I guess I can't help but come off scummy.

I wasn't convinced enough of the Az scum to drop the hammer, but neither was I convinced enough of his town to try to defend him.

That's not wishy washy at all.

Iam: Thanks for the analysis. I am surprised about the read with Mirth. Usually when I see someone following or buddying up to someone I use that as a newbie scum tell. I don't know too many experience players I see doing that, but it's not unheard of. I think I need to read that for myself again to see if I feel the same way.

I've played the "well I might be scum card" both as town and as scum.

I can't care for people who play like this. If you are town you should be fighting to make a point and not play coy.

[farside22]

sekinj, do you want to try answering my questions to you in #222? And, while you're at it, why do you think the town feeling you get from farside is 'fake' this time?

thanks for reminding me of this. I meant to answer, but I got distracted by the wiz-kid.

An answer for this would be nice. I was going to ask and saw Iam beat me to the punch.

@Retro: Did you read Iam's point that Mirth could be trying to buddy up by agreeing or defending me as such? I think you are trying to hard to see that as scum defending each other then actual scum hunting. I have already stated that I will not be answering any more question for Mirth.

Looking back and reading myself I still don't get the same impression that Iam had in regards to Mirth. Or course I did feel that Mirth ignoring Iam and attacking others questionable. Sure it can be written off, but attacking the less experience players in the game and not attacking everyone just looks like scum playing safe in my opinion.

@Mirth reading your comment a little more indepth I realized I did miss your point it was just that one line that caught my attention. For me in lylo situation and I'm town I point out why players are scummy and not defend myself as much. Defending in lylo does and doesn't work but it's not my priority. My priority is to point out scumminess of others.

[farside22]

sekinj, do you want to try answering my questions to you in #222? And, while you're at it, why do you think the town feeling you get from farside is 'fake' this time?

thanks for reminding me of this. I meant to answer, but I got distracted by the wiz-kid.

An answer for this would be nice. I was going to ask and saw Iam beat me to the punch.

See post 241.

I'm not seeing an answer for why I seem fake to you in your response.

[farside22]

EBWOP: Oh, nevermind. In answering all of iam's other questions I guess I forgot the one farside would be most interested in.

She can't be town all the time. I think it is odd that iam always thinks farside plays scummy, and I always thinks she plays townie.

In this game at first her and mirth were going side by side. When that was pointed out, mirth embraced it and said basically said that it could indeed be a scumtell, while farside distanced herself from it. That made it seem more like mirth was town and farside could be scum. I know when I am town I am less concerned that my action appear scummy.

Because I didn't want to answer questions for her? That's scummy?
Eh I could see what you are saying. I've stated I felt that way about others myself, however I answered her question since she answered mine. I was being silly at the time, but when someone stated we looked like scum buddies I realized that I can't be silly just because I know Mirth and enjoy her play style. I had to distance myself from her because I typically see her as town and I realized she could be scum.

[farside22]

It just seems sudden on your part where mirth just went when the flow... that's what seems scummy.

You missed the part where I agreed with your logic.
I was just explaining my thought process at the time it was brought up.

[farside22]

EBWOP: Oh, nevermind. In answering all of iam's other questions I guess I forgot the one farside would be most interested in.

She can't be town all the time. I think it is odd that iam always thinks farside plays scummy, and I always thinks she plays townie.

In this game at first her and mirth were going side by side. When that was pointed out, mirth embraced it and said basically said that it could indeed be a scumtell, while farside distanced herself from it. That made it seem more like mirth was town and farside could be scum. I know when I am town I am less concerned that my action appear scummy.

Because I didn't want to answer questions for her? That's scummy?
Eh I could see what you are saying. I've stated I felt that way about others myself, however I answered her question since she answered mine. I was being silly at the time, but when someone stated we looked like scum buddies I realized that I can't be silly just because I know Mirth and enjoy her play style. I had to distance myself from her because I typically see her as town and I realized she could be scum.

This post bothers me a bit. Especially the buddying and the saying you had to distance yourself. Because I wasn't being silly, just answering your questions because I didn't think they should have been asked in the first place since it was obvious why you were voting Sek. I see no point in distancing here.

Sek: I tend not to back down from stuff regardless of alignment. Keep that in mind.

The distance meaning I needed to step away and look more at you as a player in this game and not someone I should be silly with.
I was being silly when I answered the questioned directed for you.

[farside22]

I don't believe that farside is scum.
I don't believe that Mirth and retro are scum together.
Therefore, by process of elimination, sekinj must be scum.

At this point, I can't see anything convincing me that these conclusions are incorrect, so I'm going to be bold and

Vote: sekinj

.

Please unvote. This is lylo situation. If you are wrong then scum can come in and quick vote. I think everyone needs to decide where they stand before we vote like this.

FOS iamausername

you should know better.

[farside22]

Eh, my 2 cents: I think it' a Sek/Retro scum pair.

Why do you think they are the scum pair?
Iamausername: I understood why you did what you did, but it was risky. I don't know how often you are online, but doing such an act could have been a loss for the town.
Mirth/Sek if you were to vote right now who would you vote for and why?

To answer my own question my vote would be on Retro or Sek. I agree with them as a scum pair. I see the whole defense and then bussing that Sek did as a big scum tell. Retro's post are medicore at best. I feel like I am getting no substance from him and Mirth was correct in stating that Retro not coming up with his own case is bad.

[farside22]

Iamausername: I understood why you did what you did, but it was risky. I don't know how often you are online, but doing such an act could have been a loss for the town.

and it will be a loss for the town if it is followed through on...

Please answer this:

if you were to vote right now who would you vote for and why?

Also Retro needs to answer the above as well. He seems to be MIA which bothers me.

[farside22]

I don't know how often you are online, but doing such an act could have been a loss for the town.

I am online a

lot

. And more importantly, it could only be a loss for town if I'm voting town, and I'm pretty sure I'm not.

Also Retro needs to answer the above as well. He seems to be MIA which bothers me.

I will be away till 22nd. I might be able to comment now and again, but sporatic at best.

Ah I missed him being gone. Well that could mean he is mafia and that is why there was no quick lynch. So your theory is somewhat flawed with Retro away. Retro could still be scum with Mirth and even you.
Mirth what are your thoughts?

[farside22]

Please answer this:

if you were to vote right now who would you vote for and why?

I was working on it...

Sorry about that.
Just when I see someone post and not answer a question I asked I start hounding them.

[farside22]

Sek: If you are sure that retro is scum why are you not voting him?

[farside22]

I think either iam/retro or iam/farside are the scum team. I think mirth is probably town.

Why do you think those are the pairs and how is Mirth town.

Mirth do you think retro/sek more possible. I'm not sure with 2 people now saying they think sek scum. Of course I have the sek/retro pairng in my head too.
I don't see Iam/Mirth scum pair. Although Mirth has never been one that I have seen do quick hammer in a lylo situation I could see it. Since Mirth hasn't voted she could be waiting on me.
I just want to hear from Retro to see what he will say, but that isn't till the 22nd.

[farside22]

do I think retro/sek more possible than what?

You could do what you want, I'd want Retro back before I throw my vote on Sek.

Possible scum partners.

[farside22]

I already said I think they're scum partners. I don't understand your question?

I've been at this too much today.
Okay here we go.
Do you think with 3 people suspecting sek/retro as scum pair that that in it's self isn't off. I always feel paroid when I see more then one person agreeing with me especially in a lylo situation.

[farside22]

OKAY!! I thought about this. I know you guys are goignt o say I flip flopped, but here is my reasoning:

unbiased general scenarios given far's argument:

AA. Three townies agree and are correct = retro AND sek are scum
AB. Two town + one bussing scum agree =

either

retro OR sek are scum
AC. One town + two scum agree = retro and sek are town

specific scenarios given my knowledge of my own PM (sek=town):

BA. Two town (mirth/iam) + one bussing scum (far) agree = retro is scum
BB. Two town (mirth/far) + one bussing scum (iam) agree = retro is scum
BC. Two town (iam/far) + one bussing scum (mirth) agree = retro is scum
BD. One town (far) + two scum (mirth/iam) = retro is town
BE. One town (iam) + two scum (mirth/far) = retro is town
BF. One town (mirth) + two scum (iam/far) = retro is town

HOWEVER --> far is the one who pointed out that is was weird to have 3 of 5 people agree on a scum pair, so that bumps her to town IMHHHO. So that knocks out scenarioes BA, BE, and BF.

the options remaining:

BB. iam/retro are scum
BC. mirth/retro are scum
BD. mirth/iam are scum


I personally think the strongest chance is that retro is scum. currently, after that I would go iam then mirth.

unvote, vote: retro

Didn't you just say you thought Mirth was town not too long ago? Yes I noticed you stated you were flip flopping that doesn't make it ok.
Also didn't Iam already come up with the same thing you did a page ago? Why didn't you think about it yourself then?

FOS: Sek

[farside22]

dang it people. Mirth, you just were last on my scum list, which makes you the most town. I was mostly talking about vibes at that point. Now, I think I actually have something substantial. However, it is probably too late because the scum have way too much swaying power.

That is only true if everyone is has said something was scum right now and 3 people can't be scum. The only person not making sense is Retro.

[farside22]

USERNAME'S SCUMTEAM PICKS

:

1. Mirth/sekinj
2. retro/sekinj

Just wanted to point out the order here, given farside's concern about the multitude of agreement on retro/sekinj as the scumpair.

That said, Mirth's response to my initial big post alleviated some of my concerns about her and bridged the gap between the two possible pairings in my mind, and it wasn't a very big gap to start with.

What retro has to say for himself when he returns may change things again, of course.

I see sek's comment where she voted retro as scum bussing. I'm not placing a vote till Retro says something. Despite what I have seen of Mirth I still don't trust placing a vote without a quick hammer.

[farside22]

@far: What are you expecting Retro to say? I don't want you to post the answer in thread, but just consider it...

I can't answer this so why ask it? I have an answer but you think I am going to say what it is?

[farside22]

if you were goign to react the same way no matter what he said, then there is no point in twiddling our thumbs. I'm not trying to rush it, I just wanted you to be sure to consider what you were expecting from retro before he said anything.

See I could see a mirth/ you combo or retro/ you combo. Since retro is a newbie I can see well I don't want to say what I will be looking for. The point is seeing what retro says may make things more perspective as far as who is your scum partner. Whether Mirth or Retro. I could vote for you and then see what Mirth does, but I have seen scum hammer themselves to stop conversation and I for one don't want that to happen either.

[farside22]

Because if Iam and I were scum together, we would have quick lynched Retro with your vote already. If you did not think we were out of the picture as a scum pair, why did you not object to my math before.

I just ignored it, exactly like mine was ignored.

Yours was not ignored, but really if you are doing equations look at what Iam just did.

Sek/Retro
Sek/Mirth
Sek/Iam
Sek/Farside
Retro/Mirth
Retro/Iam
Retro/Farside

He included himself in the equation.

[farside22]

I'm not Iam, Farside

This is what I get for waking up at 6am on Sunday and reading thru MS.
Yes replace Iam with Mirth in my comments above.

[farside22]

Why are you up at 6 am on a Sunday exactly? Sunday is for sleeping. Sleeping is good.

On topic: Retro should be back tomorrow. I'm really interested in hearing his thoughts.

Sek: Farside is right. I know I mostly ignored your equation because they didn't take into consideration all possibilities (namely the ones with you) and were weighted with opinion not fact.

Woke up to feed my son and couldn't go back to sleep. He is now awake and ready to play. He is given me that look now that says "come on already."

[farside22]

Retro's comment didn't help. Today or tomorrow I will evaluate both sek and retro as indiviuals. I think the best course is to look at them seperately at this point.

[farside22]

WARNING THIS IS A LONG POST!!

Retro:

First have the vote mistake. Felt the need to correct himself. Explain his correction and talked about the voting process. Feels concerned about "throwing his vote around like candy". After many post of explaining the vote and unvote.
Questions Mirth and me in regards to answering each others questions. His vote and reasoning for his vote is subpar.

so am I compltely out of my mind for seeing them answering each other questions as a little odd?

Odd yes, vote worthy? I say no and it is weak reasoning.
votes AZ feels like a me too vote.

Not really much to say today. hard to supply analysis and compresension in day one. but AZ comment about cop claim just seems way too messed up to ignore.

I notice scum have hard time finding scum signs then town people.
I know I promised no pairing, but reading retro I get have that feeling that either Iam is his scum parnter or sek is. He almost ignores Iam in all post except one which is non commital. Sek is more like a comment based on it's him or her today.


Sek:

Reading seks first 7 post was all joking around. Questions strife's vote. Questions Mirths comments about retro. FOS AZ? Okay if you think random votes are stupid why FOS someone instead of voting?

@Az: not good, man. bad mistake to make. You look very scummy now.

This just rubs me as a post to post. No explanination. Nothing really behind it.

I know once again I said I would look at them as individuals but this caught my attention.

farside22 wrote:
Sorry I have a lot on my mind as of late.

@ sekinj: Why do you think Retro correction isn't scummy, but Azrael001 mistake is scummy?


because retro's mistake was obvious in his first post about it. He says, "same reason, wrong name beside it" which references back to his first random vote against me. So, he was obviously still random voting, however badly he mis-read the thread and however misguided his attempt to 'correct' a random vote, he was still random voting. He then unvoted 5 minutes later because has was done with random voting as he states in Post 36.

Az on the other hand, breaks into the middle of the serious discussion with what looks like an all out attack without anything to back it up. He leaves it that way for over 24 hours, and only then comes back and says he made a mistake.

these are drastically different. I'm not saying Az is scum (which is why I haven't voted him), but I am saying his mistake was much more scummy.

I felt when I question sek that he was giving more leeway to retro in this case.

except that I dont' want townie's lynched... true I don't know retro's alignment for sure, but his mistake does nto scream scum to me pure and simple.
@mirth and farside: why are you ignoring the Az thing? simply because he is not responding? this is not good playing on anyone's part. Retro and Az both made mistakes because of not reading properly, yet you guys are making retro look scummier because he is participating, where Az isn't looking as scummy simply because he is lurking.

Really seems to push aside the retro case in loo of Az.
Why is asking for an extension scummy?

Here is her case against retro:

I can't see the mirth/strife connection. sure it could be distancing at first, but currently their vote is split. You'd think they'd come together at some point. and Strife alone doesn't look like scum to me.
I think az and retro are the most scummy. I will vote for retro, because I think ven if he is not scum he is a distraction at this point. too many newbie mistakes and bad plays, not enough good defenses.

Vote: retro

I just don't feel there was enough reason for her vote or comments. It just feel flat.

@far re:Retro - His play is just bad. His posts do not include content.

After rereading sek's post I say sek is just as guilty of this.
Here we are with the I'm good, but not lynching Az post. One point you say you think Az and retro scum partners what happened with that theory?

Start of day 2.

I am still suspicious of retro, but I will admit that maybe his newbieness just annoys me. So i'm going to ignore him for now.

I will admit that most of these seems weak, but this is all I have for now.

iam - for agreeing with me about retro. feels like buddying. Last time this happened to me, the other guy was scum. Iam also did it to Strife when strife said I was the most town player, who we know was town. He is also coaching in his post 17, which seems scummy.
far - always plays very townie, this time I think it's fake.
mirth - seems to have good agression tactics, sometimes goes off half cocked.

Just kind bypasses Retro which in a lylo point in the game should not be done.

I would gladly vote for retro... but my suspicion against iam is strengthed by this:

iamausername Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:09 am wrote:
Yeah, this is Lylo, so NOBODY VOTE.

iamausername Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:51 am wrote:
At this point, I can't see anything convincing me that these conclusions are incorrect, so I'm going to be bold and Vote: sekinj.


Yeah, I know we have to vote at some time today, but to scream at everyone not to vote, and then lay down a vote without dicussion is pretty scummy. He examined everyone thoroughly, but at this point he should have fos'd first, or just announced his intentions.

I won't quote the last one, but that is the list of who is scum or town list where after everything is said she votes retro.
I just don't get the flip flop. It's like she went from Iam to retro based on pairing after all those comments about Retro I get bussing feeling.

However reading Retro I see either Iam or sek in as a partner. Retro is a newb, but should not be ignored because he is new. He followed. Didn't try hard. Made mistake, used crap reasoning for voting, used the newb card. I think reading Sek's post I can't help but lean on her as Retro's scum partner. I feel either is a good lynch based on the interaction between them. Both have been less then ideal when it has come to scum hunting.
I'm leaning on Retro on this one because of the idea that Iam could be his scum partner.

vote: Retro

[farside22]

Hi, this is me not hammering retro, thus proving that I am not scum with sekinj.

I never said I saw you as scum with sek. I said I could see a link between you and retro. Also I see a link with sek and retro. With that thought in mind Retro is still the main link.

[farside22]

Yup. So the odds now:

Sek/Retro
Sek/Farside
Retro/Iam
Retro/Mirth
Retro/Farside

Retro has a 4/5 chance of being scum
Sek and Farside have a 2/5 chance of being scum
Iam and Mirth have a 1/5 chance of being scum

I still think Farside's vote is a little odd however, even if Retro is almost certainly scum.

Retro, claim please.

I saw pairing between two people both linked to retro.
Iams hammer vote has me doubting my analisis

[farside22]

@mirth: Are you kidding? Did you not see my massive post yesterday?

vote: Iam

FOS: Sek:

This is lylo. No one died that means there is a doc. We have one confirmed person right now and I believe a claim and who they protected should be stated.

[farside22]

This is me chiming is saying not the doctor.
I have no issue with Iam's claim.
Mirth I don't see the harm with a claim at lylo. Why not get one person to claim in lylo so we have one player we know as town out of the equation. Iam saved you. My points yesterday about Sek now all but confirm her as scum in my book.

vote: Sek

[farside22]

@iam: although you have claimed doc, I'd still like you to address the points in my case.

No thanks. I'm confirmed town since nobody has countered me, so why would I need to?

this game is such a lost cause. I *really* feel like voting myself out, but I will let mirth do the honors.

Building a case against a claimed doc is rediculous unless you are claiming doc at this point. The game is open and does say doc or deputy (1) nurse or cop (1) , 2 scum (1 rb, 1 scum) and 3 townies.

I think if she had said she was the doc I would have held off too Mirth. She didn't. If you want to look into my post and wait I have no issue either.

[farside22]

Building a case against a claimed doc is rediculous unless you are claiming doc at this point.

I BUILT THE CASE YESTERDAY!!! HE CLAIMED TODAY!!

You wanted him to go over the case you brought up after he claimed. Why?

[farside22]

Nah, I just skimmed all your posts, Farside. If you're scum, congratulations, you have us all fooled. Sek doomed herself when she didnt counterclaim.

vote:Sek

i doomed myself when I didnt' lie. great.

It's in scum's best interest to fake claim power roles when they can. If you beat Iam to the doctor claim, you might have won. Unless Farside is really scum here.

*pokes head out*

Hi scum here. Tried to kill you last night Mirth. Sorry about that girl. I was worried about keeping you alive that you would keep the game heated and I would loss. I had a thought Iam was the doc, but hoped he would protect me after a great performance of scum hunting by me. Oh well that. It worked out in the end.

[farside22]

.... *waits for apologies*

I'm sorry sek that I had to use you to win as scum.

[farside22]

Congrats. I did reread you and saw absolutely nothing linking you to retro and a lot of awfulness from Sek and no awfulness from you. I'm going to go nominate you for a scummy now, in case anyone feels like seconding. Also, honestly, you've killed me before, so it's not like I would have minded. At least it wouldnt have been night 1. ~coughcough~

That discussion is for another game.

[farside22]

By the way thanks for the nod Mirth. I really laid low in some area's. Many times I looked at Retro's post and went yikes. I was glad sek was there to protect him and Iam.
I hope this doesn't mean that Iam is going to try and lynch me in every game he's see's me in because he can't read me.

[farside22]

EBWOP: The one thing I didn't understand was your vote on Retro though. You could have won yesterday as there was soooo much more on Sek.

Oh, and I've pretty much given up getting a read on you, btw. I'd like to get a chance to be on a scum team with you though. Since I prefer being scum and that should be fun.

Actually I was worried about Mirth here. I thought if I vote sek she could vote retro. I wasn't sure where you were standing between the two of them. I decided to bite the bullet and just vote for my scum buddy. If you had voted sek after my case I would have quick hammered for sure.

I would love to be scum buddies in a game with you one day.

[farside22]

Well it seems like everyone blew their loads before all the cards were played. iamausername protected himself and farside targeted iamausername so no one was killed last night. We know iam and mirth will vote out farside today so good game everyone. That's a wrap.

I made sure to note the doc could not protect himself.

[farside22]

Well...it ultimately helped Farside that you and Sek were connected, but generally its about trying your darndest not to look scummy...so doing "good" would either be not getting yourself bandwagoned enough to merit a lynch or talking your way out of being lynched. If you guys had a chance to quickhammer, if I were you I would have gone for it.

I wanted retro to place the L-1 on sek. I thought by putting the L-1 on sek would make me look scummy.