Open 794 Pick Your Power X/Y (finished)

[the worst]

I would like to dedicate this town stomp to Hoopla. She may be the only factor stopping a perfect town win, but she definitely made the carnage possible.

[the worst]

yeah it's auto, dw.

[the worst]

hmm

probably

[the worst]

sec.

[the worst]

Something_Smart - uncleared, don't kill
Datisi - uncleared, don't kill
iamausername - uncleared, don't kill
Green Crayons - uncleared, can kill
Grumpy Cat - please claim target & be confirmed

the worst - confirmed
Clover Ebi - confirmed
petapan - confirmed
DrDolittle - confirmed? (pls +1 this datisi)

today we elim green crayons, tonight ss blocks grumpy cat who targets username.

pedit: oh a guilty~??
VOTE: drdolittle

[the worst]

hilariously, i was writing up a proof that scum shooting umlaut still put us in auto when dave locked the thread :p

[the worst]

datisi could you please explicitly confirm that's a guilty on ddl?

[the worst]

sorry ):
i didn't really wanna murder ico either but just assassinating VTs and winning via mech auto felt good

[the worst]

look, i /could/ have conceded but it felt more fun just winning along with all my lovely town friends who i love.

[the worst]

he was going for the "nO wAy!1!!!!11!" distancing move wasn't he

[the worst]

Official Vote Count 1.10

Gypyx(4) - Iconeum, the worst, Datisi, DrDolittle
Almost50(3) - Grumpy Cat, Hoopla, iamausername
Umlaut(3) - Green Crayons, Almost50, word321
Dr Dolittle(1) - Clover Ebi
Something_Smart(1) - Gypyx
Clover Ebi(1) - Umlaut

Not Voting(1) - Something_Smart
With 14 alive, elimination requires 8 votes

Day ends in (expired on 2020-09-13 23:00:00)

Mod notes:
none

Official Vote Count 1.11

Almost50(6) - Grumpy Cat, Hoopla, iamausername, word321, the worst, Green Crayons
Gypyx(3) - Iconeum, Datisi, DrDolittle
Umlaut(1) - Almost50
Dr Dolittle(1) - Clover Ebi
Something_Smart(1) - Gypyx
Clover Ebi(1) - Umlaut

Not Voting(1) - Something_Smart
With 14 alive, elimination requires 8 votes

Day ends in (expired on 2020-09-13 23:00:00)

Mod notes:
none

Official Vote Count 1.11

Gypyx(6) - Datisi, DrDolittle, the worst, Iconeum, Green Crayons, iamausername
Almost50(3) - Grumpy Cat, Hoopla, word321
Umlaut(1) - Almost50
Dr Dolittle(1) - Clover Ebi
Something_Smart(1) - Gypyx
Clover Ebi(1) - Umlaut

Not Voting(1) - Something_Smart
With 14 alive, elimination requires 8 votes

Day ends in (expired on 2020-09-13 23:00:00)

Mod notes:
none

Official Vote Count 1.12

Almost50(7) - Grumpy Cat, Hoopla, word321, iamausername, Green Crayons, the worst, DrDolittle

(E-1)

Gypyx(3) - Datisi, Iconeum, Umlaut
Umlaut(1) - Almost50
Dr Dolittle(1) - Clover Ebi
Something_Smart(1) - Gypyx

Not Voting(1) - Something_Smart
With 14 alive, elimination requires 8 votes

Day ends in (expired on 2020-09-13 23:00:00)

Mod notes:
none

Official Vote Count 1.13

Almost50(8) - Grumpy Cat, Hoopla, word321, iamausername, Green Crayons, the worst, DrDolittle, Iconeum

(Eliminated)

Gypyx(2) - Datisi, Umlaut
Umlaut(1) - Almost50
Dr Dolittle(1) - Clover Ebi
Something_Smart(1) - Gypyx

Not Voting(1) - Something_Smart
With 14 alive, elimination requires 8 votes

Day ends in (expired on 2020-09-13 23:00:00)

Mod notes:
I'm Pacific time, all that was while I was asleep

these wagons are so satisfying honestly

[the worst]

you're hilarious.

SS block grumpy tonight. Grumpy target username.
Datisi cop green just for the sake of it.

[the worst]

Cop green crayons that is. don't cop someone you've already got a green check on >_>

[the worst]

Green Crayons - clear tonight
Clover Ebi - clear
Datisi
petapan - clear
DrDolittle - dead
Grumpy Cat - clear
iamausername
Something_Smart - cleared tonight
the worst - clear

[the worst]

we are the worst, as a collective.

[the worst]

no

[the worst]

we have three more elims, even if you kill SS tonight and control innos/guilties we can just kill your two guilties and then you to torment you <3

[the worst]

GG!

[the worst]

I've never picked anything but 3, please rand scum with me

[the worst]

if i ever rand scum in this game, i will refuse to play unless my entire team selects 69,420

[the worst]

i actually want to know.

ooh i never circled back to this!

number theory is a whole thing, yes. i also actually don't feel like tanking the draft process is actually necessarily a massive loss for scum? there's novelty in 'winning the draft' for sure, but i think messing around with pypx/y zeitgeist adds more value than top picks at shitty power roles.

i feel like the earlier times i played this setup, i was instinctively drawn to suspect players in the upper tier of the draft because i wanted to kill scum power roles - on the flipside, there are /town/ power roles (e.g. cop/unibackup tbh) who have a tendency to bottleneck in the top of the draft anyway. it feels like more fun to shoot at high ~~town power role equity~~ players without exposing highly-placing scum. so much more fun if those highly-placing scumspects are also town!

it's also not like, super difficult to outplay the draft to some extent. if you accept that you need to work around a cop (fine) and that you're not going to get the rolecop (i'd argue it's nearly useless), you can have a lot of fun scheming around less-popular role picks. i actually think scum probably had ... a right idea with their picks. it's just that their picks rely on powerdriving a n3 win, and their actual collective dayplay skill set was like... not compatible with this.

honestly not sure if messing around with tanking the draft actually wins the game in practice, but in the spur of the moment i would 100% be down to drown my teammates with the theory of it and see if they're down to have a good time with me.


pedit: i'd be down to run this sometime soon if u wanna play it, dave

[the worst]

I can't believe it's still d4

[the worst]

The game I was modding is over, so I'll likely queue this shortly. Dave, I'll operate on the assumption you'd like a pre in & pm you to confirm.

After talking to SS a fair bit about the last few runnings of this game, a devious plan is starting to form. This isn't a setup I would call townsided carte blanche. But it's a setup which rewards good play and good mechanical choices, and guess what? More people are getting better at town.

To boot, the sheer level of information available to town creates a huge potential for townsiding swing, depending on (to be brutal) the degree of skill of the scum players. There also isn't a whole lot of scope for manipulation which is, though common for an open setup, sad to see in such a spicy setup. (The greatest example of this I can think of is TheWizard's running of the other PYPX/Y setup; a couple of years ago, a scum 1s watcher claimed gunsmith and in the right era that could have swung endgame. Now we just wait until everyone is cleared and policy it )

So based on an evil idea SS had, and with a bit of a PYP-esque tweak which I couldn't resist, I would like to propose we run exactly the same setup, but including a scum pregame factional choice.

During the number draft phase (before order is revealed), EITHER:

• After the draft is finalised, the mafia will be informed of ONE set of roles which have not been selected during the draft. OR
  
• All members of the mafia will become multitasking.

The factional ability chosen will be confirmed publicly after the number draft, but before the role draft is finalised. Failing to select either would default to multitasking (to be blunt, I think a scumteam without a strong opinion on this is gonna need all the antiswing they can get).

[the worst]

Couple minor tweaks needed to make it deterministic, otherwise the change sounds good to me:
If every role set has been selected, mafia will be told no roles went unselected.
If more than one role set has not been selected, the unselected role set the mafia is informed about is randomized.

Yeah, definitely agreed on both fronts - that was in line with what I was *thinking* but indeed, good call formalising it up-front. I'll add that in to my /in to mod post. :p

What do you think about the tweak I ran with, where players have the option of selecting a specific role to save time in phase 2? Should that be formalized in the wiki page?

This should definitely be standard imo - the outcome of the draft only makes such a tiny difference to such a small number of players, the time saved is 100% worth it.

[the worst]

hmm multitasking definitely isn't the standard, standardising it probably ruins a lot of opens from the good ol' days
i think this is more of a rare occasion where i endorse it, rather than a meta level change tbh

[the worst]

yeah, exactly - it's very much an intent thing tho.
was it explicitly intentional in this setup? hard to say because it's modified over the years and the current iteration is published anonymously. i kinda doubt they thought about multitasking when they designed it tbh.

[the worst]

Awesome, that makes a bunch of sense. Thanks for chiming in.

2042 sounded unintentionally snarky, sorry - more so (to steal your language a bit) i think open design ethos was a lot more consistent when it was designed. Again stealing from your point, it feels like it makes sense to revisit points like multitasking periodically to reduce 'townsiding swing' or 'scumsiding swing' depending on winrates and stuff. but the whole "what should we account for in 40 runs' time?" spectrum of considerations is really not practical to design a setup around

[the worst]

that's a really cool idea as well, actually.

some other ideas that occurred to us were like, exactly that, tweaking the roles around a little so that they're more consistent with how their power is viewed today; we also thought of the idea of putting the roles into seven random brackets but on reflection i don't really know if i'd ever prefer to play that over just a normal pypx/y setup.