Mini Normal 2163: MItGBSMoD [game over!]

[PlusJOYED]

ok i took a minute to calm down
disregard my earlier panicking

[PlusJOYED]

ok then tell me
1) read on bob
2) read on ydrasse

with explanations attached

bob is probably scum, he's been playing kind of weird this game and I now realize that it makes the most sense for scum!bob to pocket me here so he doesn't die

ydrasse was really sus earlier and today I think has been sus. I'm pretty much null on ydrasse, leaning sort of scum

i've come around to a town!osuka possibility

[PlusJOYED]

honestly besides mena and andres I could see the scum being any of the 2 of you

[PlusJOYED]

plus what was your take on math again/

i can see scum math

[PlusJOYED]

JOYED DIDNT YOU TR YDRASSE

like all these thought gaps and non logical trajectories, look super duper bad.

i did before now im unsure, my solve shit has been messed up since all my reads have been wrong (iv, teacher, kerset, even suade a lil)
while I have no scumgames here shelly, i think you underestimate my scumgame and don't realize how fucking awful i am as town

[PlusJOYED]

joyed instead of seeing scum!anybody can you give me a lynch order so we have have some Fun Discussion and I can release my theory on the alignments of plus and ydrasse

here's mine: (least to most)
Shelly
Andres
Menalque
Ydrasse
Math
Bob
Joyed
Osuka

at this point i think bob is more likely than osuka because osuka wouldn't push a venge i think as scum

[PlusJOYED]

joyed instead of seeing scum!anybody can you give me a lynch order so we have have some Fun Discussion and I can release my theory on the alignments of plus and ydrasse

here's mine: (least to most)
Shelly
Andres
Menalque
Ydrasse
Math
Bob
Joyed
Osuka

mine is probably
andres
mena
joyed
Shelly
ydrasse
osuka
math
bob

[PlusJOYED]

i did before now im unsure, my solve shit has been messed up since all my reads have been wrong (iv, teacher, kerset, even suade a lil)
while I have no scumgames here shelly, i think you underestimate my scumgame and don't realize how fucking awful i am as town

no you're very decent as town and i just reread newbie 2023
maybe i underestimate it but I want to rejoin the joyed wagon, and yeah if joyed is town they shoot within the poe

pedit: I said I was just subconsciously delineating it for hours and reading newbie 2018 (town!Ydrasse) as well

what happens if im lying about vengeful but im not mafia either?

[PlusJOYED]

scum!math posibility exists if plus + osuka both are green

pedit: I was thinking about it
why am i getting pedited so hard lol

agree on this

[PlusJOYED]

Spoiler:

also, please tell me the thought process behind a team that is me/kerset/whoever.

do i, the "deepwolf", decide that it is worth it to hammer someone, and then kill the person who has focused solely on myself and my partner? who is then flipped, and then also allowing prs to do what they want? how does that set up a winning gamestate for my team instead of me allowing things to run their course and keeping my vote where it was? the wagon at that point had less than 24 hours and it was unlikely for anything to consolidate again. so what benefits did i receive other than everyone going ??? at me hammering like that?

p-edit: you have missed the point so spectacularly i cannot imagine this being in good faith.

words have meaning. you keep using terms like that, but you're not thinking about the gamestate as a whole; do you think that in this game that two people, who are widely townread in this theoretical, let their partner go down like that? surely they have enough sway over people who are townreading them to convince them otherwise, yeah?

do you scumread mena? do you think that there is any indication of what he, or andre, or taylor (who are "confirmed" to you) has done so far are efforts to lead the town astray?

please, tell me what the wincon is for me + kerset + someone else for making that play, and who fits that bill.

you don't need a wall.

i am asking you, very simply, what the wincon is for me/kerset/someone else making that play. how do we win doing what we have done so far?

(the point i'm getting at here is that you've got a tinfoil hat on regarding me when the answer is a lot simpler most likely)

(or you're scum)

you're either overly-confident as town for some reason or scum.

p-edit: but i was off it during the moments matter why? if i'm bussing, isn't the point of me keeping my vote on kerset so people can see i voted out scum?

like, if you're town at this point i really don't know how to get the point across that my actions are counter-intuitive to the narrative you're trying to write for scum!ydrasse and scum!kerset.

you can say it's wifom this, or wifom that, but sometimes you just have to accept things as they are at face value.

but if i had to choose other scum i think its ydrasse

if me going over why a kerset/ydrasse/x team makes no sense for the actions of this game so far you’re a lost cause or scum.

like, you can say i’m scummy but why? what posts do you think are scummy, and how do they benefit a scumteam i’m on?

that hammer was townie af

VOTE: iv

mercy killing

ydr conftown

agree

like lol.

what is your progression on me plus? conftown to scum for... a hammer that you thought was towny?

i'm pretty sure that it's by virtue of the current poe being (correctly) narrow at this point and you need to push some miselims through. and you chose me because...???

and if you're town, and you shoot me despite basically EVERYONE ELSE in this game saying that that is suboptimal for town? that's not on me at this point.

all of this is very literally solving

she's engaging with you to try and follow where you're coming from and get a sense of your alignment

she's then doing the same thing with plus, trying to trace back his thoughts through what he's said to see if it makes sense

just bc she hasn't been trying to engage with every single slot in the PL doesn't mean that she hasn't been trying to solve the slots she thinks she can solve/is more interested in, and this is more reason for her to be town when you add it to the behaviour she displayed not making sense coming from scum

hmm yeah i may have been wrong on ydrasse

[PlusJOYED]

Ok I think this will get me killed anyway since it will be interpreted as scum flailing but I think in the interest of making the gamestate clearer I will come clean so I can explain. The vengeful claim/soft thing was a long term gambit I did as a VT was to get hopefully nked or waste mafia actions on me to save a pr potentially and to garner reactions/interactions at a later time when needed to solve; I chose today.
I originally thought that the mafia had to have some sort of investigating role that they would have investigated me by now to learn that I was lying about vengeful/soft. If mafia knew I was lying, they'd push me like hell for townpoints. Mena explained how this is probably not the case.
Since mafia would believe I'm vengeful, they'd have to tread extremely careful around me so they don't get hit by venge shot. Ydrasse has not, so I think they are town. I already am confident in andres and mena town. I also think taylor is town since bussing bob here is weird. I don't think scum osuka would push me here either for that same reason as Ydrasse despite being in worse position.
Who has tread carefully around my slot? Bob (especially and I think tried to pocket a bit) , a little of taylor and shelly, and ndmath. I'm extremely certain that the 2 remaining scum are in those 4. I think it is bob and ndmath or shelly.

[PlusJOYED]

this is weird as fuck and I don't buy it at all.

VOTE: PlusJOYED

Also, you contradicted yourself. Scum probably wasn't aware of your "vengeful" ability so your ydra TR doesn't make sense.
Also didnt you just say scum would push you for +townpoints? so your osuka read doesnt make sense either

Tell me how I tread carefully around you because since d1 ive had a scumlean there

oh my this post is pretty wolfy and misrepping. I've noticed you tend to get wolfier when nearing a kill
it's probably bob/shelly

[PlusJOYED]

like tbh I think the hostility of bob towards teacher just incriminates them even more

teacher's reaction is quite geniune and i buy the informed townie claim so bob is just bullshitting

idk why bob just does not accept that teacher made a mistake because upon reread, the reaction seems to show real town emotion

bob's confusing shading of teacher gives me heavy scumpings

so you think I bussed both my partners d2

joyed not checking facts before shading lol

yeah

[PlusJOYED]

will be happy to vote bob

so you think i hate both kerset and bob and want to play this game solo

plus no offence at all but you are really really stupid town who thinks i hate my partners or scum

you seem to be panicking, i still wanna vote bob first

[PlusJOYED]

i could see you push bob and kerset day 2 for townpoints as scum
I also have noticed you've been on basically every wagon

[PlusJOYED]

I would also like to reiterate my claim that Osuka is sort of obviously scum.

now off to bed I go

pedit: I'll elaborate a bit more on my logical trajectories in the game of everyone tomorrow if you need me to

osuka has played like this as town before

[PlusJOYED]

I'll elim bob, shelly, or possibly math today

[PlusJOYED]

im not dead am i? did i forget that i died?

sorry taylor i think ur town

[PlusJOYED]

joyed instead of seeing scum!anybody can you give me a lynch order so we have have some Fun Discussion and I can release my theory on the alignments of plus and ydrasse

here's mine: (least to most)
Shelly
Andres
Menalque
Ydrasse
Math
Bob
Joyed
Osuka

at this point i think bob is more likely than osuka because osuka wouldn't push a venge i think as scum

So why do you think scum wouldnt push a vengful. You take out 2 mislynches for one. With the worse case being you simply swap a scum lynch for nigth kill and move the game to evens. Which benifits scum

i've been pretty explosive. If scum pushed me they'd know they might get hit with the shot so they have to be careful to avoid it

[PlusJOYED]

bob i really don't care about your self meta

[PlusJOYED]

I think there’s some good reasons you defended the Vengeful Claim as Scum too. Obviously you were trying to curry favor there either to not get shot or move the shot towards a Townie. If you’re as good at setup spec as you claim to be, you would have IMMEDIATELY cast doubt on the claim. I know I did. And I’m not nearly as good as I think you are in this particular department. It’s like you want others to believe that you would have always shot a Town PR N1 as Scum. But then you fall for a simple claim that was dubious in the context of the claims we have? I can’t square the two.

exactly the point i was trying to make

[PlusJOYED]

what? how do you see that and think "yeah bob and andres are town"

[PlusJOYED]

bob and andres is TvS af and im nearly positive andres is town

[PlusJOYED]

huh bob you look awfully flustered. what happened to 10 posts a day?

[PlusJOYED]

VOTE: shelly
I think shelly is scum. I'm annoyed that our townies keep scumslipping

[PlusJOYED]

shelly is pretty good at scum and from what I know of their towngame they like to tunnel more. Also in this game they've been wagon hopping like crazy

[PlusJOYED]

plus, who is scum with shelly?

im not sure
i think mena and Andres are townbin and i think osuka is town so it's probably within ndmath or ydrasse

[PlusJOYED]

shelly is pretty good at scum and from what I know of their towngame they like to tunnel more. Also in this game they've been wagon hopping like crazy

Doesn’t shelly have like one completed towngame? Also when did you reach the shelly!scum conclusion? I thought you’d had her as town fairly consistently until today?

shelly became my second choice day 3 and my first choice was bob

[PlusJOYED]

probably within ndmath or ydrasse

do you think that Huge Interaction with ydrassse was scum theatre? like I don’t really think you can classify two people’s attempts to solve each other from a convo is scum theatre really

as to math, why would I bring pressure onto them at EOD3 if they were my partner tho (I can quote later but on mobile rn)

i could believe it yes

[PlusJOYED]

for math, putting pressure on your partner so you aren't null on each other and it coupd make sense for town!shelly to do so you could use that as a defense. You didn't really need to worry end of day 3 since freaking bob is running around with a "hang me im scum" sign on his back; it probably wouldn't pick up so pressuring ndmath is safe

[PlusJOYED]

my osuka read is that that's just his playstyle and he's kinda wack at times

[PlusJOYED]

im headed to bed gn

[PlusJOYED]

another thing to note is that me and osuka have been on the same page unabashedly most of the time, so much so that I don't think a plus/osuka team makes sense. I might be deep pocketed by Osuka but I think that's unlikely; it doesn't make sense for Osuka to play so risky as scum imo.

[PlusJOYED]

One thing I thought of that makes me think ndmath is just inactive town is that the wagons have been moving around like crazy; for this to happen so much day 1 and 3 especially, I think there is some subtle string pulling going on here that NDMath hasn't been apart of.

I think my solve is Shelly/ydrasse

[PlusJOYED]

for math, putting pressure on your partner so you aren't null on each other and it coupd make sense for town!shelly to do so you could use that as a defense.

You didn't really need to worry end of day 3 since freaking bob is running around with a "hang me im scum" sign on his back;

it probably wouldn't pick up so pressuring ndmath is safe

joyed instead of seeing scum!anybody can you give me a lynch order so we have have some Fun Discussion and I can release my theory on the alignments of plus and ydrasse

here's mine: (least to most)
Shelly
Andres
Menalque
Ydrasse
Math
Bob
Joyed
Osuka

mine is probably
andres
mena
joyed
Shelly
ydrasse
osuka
math
bob

JOYED DIDNT YOU TR YDRASSE

like all these thought gaps and non logical trajectories, look super duper bad.

i did before now im unsure, my solve shit has been messed up since all my reads have been wrong (iv, teacher, kerset, even suade a lil)
while I have no scumgames here shelly, i think you underestimate my scumgame and don't realize how fucking awful i am as town

ok then tell me
1) read on bob
2) read on ydrasse

with explanations attached

bob is probably scum, he's been playing kind of weird this game and I now realize that it makes the most sense for scum!bob to pocket me here so he doesn't die

ydrasse was really sus earlier and today I think has been sus. I'm pretty much null on ydrasse, leaning sort of scum

i've come around to a town!osuka possibility

this is what's bothering me rn plus: you talk about how bob was incredibly obvscum and like begging to be guillo'd yesterday but yesterday you were like leaning scum there but not as certain about that/in your reads, which made sense to me

but now that bob has flipped town he was like super obvscummy which absolves you of blame. like don't get me wrong I fucked up there too but it feels a lot like you're trying to shift the narrative here around your progression here

and the OTHER thing is that yesterday it was bob -> shelly/math -> osuka -> Ydrasse

but now it's shelly -> ydrasse -> math/osuka (idk what order you'd put the last two in)

like you mentioned yesterday, you've been scumleaning math throughout the game, but at each stage you've avoided putting meaningful pressure on him or voting for him, including shifting your reads to make sure he's towards the scummy end but never quite the person you wanna vote for on any given day. what changed to make shelly your strong scum read today instead of tossing it up between shelly/math (what was implied by your reads yesterday) and to move osuka and Ydrasse down

i was uncertain until they made a big scumslip day 3

[PlusJOYED]

what’s the progression on me
4205 states me as most town out of the PoE now, and now im apparently your biggest SR?

i confused myself with the venge stuff
I think you/Ydrasse makes the most sense
i think the interaction with Ydrasse has strong potential for SvS

heres where im at.

andres is very likely town: if scum was informed of a cop, then I could see Andresvmb claiming miller checker. However, there's a hole in this idea. Teacher, the loyal informed cop, investigated at least 1 person. From what I understand about millers and loyal, teacher would get a scum result from a miller, a town result from town, and the action would fail if they targeted scum. The play that makes the most sense if I was teacher and there was a day 1 miller claim would be to investigate Andresvmb, so they get a confirmed result. If teacher visited the Andresvmb and got a fail result, they'd find a scum and would make sense to reveal it day 2, but they didn't.

Mena is also very likely town, my main reasoning being that they defended IV super hard when the day 1 elim was right there. That doesn't make sense for scum imo, that"s the biggest thing. If you are scum mena, then bravo, you deserve this W.

NdMath I think is town because of all the wagon shenanigans that have happened and derailed. This leads me to think there's an active scum pulling strings that NDMath couldn't do as inactive.

Osuka I think is town because I don't see scum!osuka playing like this. I think his partner wouldn't allow it tbh and it fits with his meta. The fact that a lot of slots want him dead for info makes me think that one of them is trying to set up a chainelim day 3 of {me, osuka, bob} in any order. There is a small chance im deep pocketed but i think that's unlikely

Shelly is scummy because of her vote changing so much and consistently being on all the wagons without starting a wagon, and being strangely untouchable. They are the one trying the hardest to set up chainelims of me, bob, and osuka from what I can tell. That and PoE

Ydrasse I need to reread but I think they are capable of this as scum. Mainly PoE for me at this point.

[PlusJOYED]

i was uncertain until they made a big scumslip day 3

what was this again?

them acting like they knew i was town
their defense was pretty bad too imo

[PlusJOYED]

i have a very small part of me with a SR on andres mainly from chaining the wagons
but the claim seems super risky to do as scum

[PlusJOYED]

plus has been on every major wagon by the end of the day, earlier in the case of the two town wagons than the kerset one (but also i think d2 went by pretty fast so it might've been a fact of not being around to vote until then? i'll check on this).

i initially thought kerset was town day 2 until he made a post that really threw me off

[PlusJOYED]

ydrasse being relatively passive and going after LHF (me) especially after omgus, along with recent meta behavior I can now talk about (silent star 2) makes me think that the solve is either shelly/ydrasse or I'm probably never going to get it right. I think shelly swapping onto ydrasse for a bit was all scum theater, since it happened at a convenient time to make Ydrasse appear more towny to throw people off. This also lines up with saudes prediction.

[PlusJOYED]

cool saudade is dead and now i get instant L-2
You don't know how to make insightful NKA. We are talking here about saud, he is careless gamethrower. His existence was harmful to town and viging him would be worth it regardless of his alignment, so healing him was out of question. This guy misleads town to lynch his target regardless of circumstances to satisfy his ego. Hardclaimming bullshits is just one of throws typical for his behavior, he thinks that saying nonsense as town is 200IQ play, because thanks to his reputation he can get away with anything, once he rolls scum.
The most important information we got is scum lack of knowledge. Scum didn't know about his nature and took him seriously, which points at people with 2020 join date. Especially shelly, which periodically appears as more naive then she normally should be.

???
Well shit, I don't see how this post could come from anywhere but scum even with my confbias. Guess I was wrong on you kerset
UNVOTE:
VOTE: kerset

plus, can you explain why (in the moment, before this flipped) you thought this post could only come from scum?

because not protecting saudade, the claimed cop, as a doc makes no fucking sense

[PlusJOYED]

nking saude there also takes out the threat of a saude tunnel on ydrasse, which is more likely to happen after kerset flipped red

oh yeah, it's all coming together.

[PlusJOYED]

this is gonna be tough tho since andres is throwing out everything i say, math is inactive, and shelly/ydrasse won't vote each other
i think it's up to mena believing me since I'd imagine andres would vote with mena

[PlusJOYED]

I hardclaim cop shoot me tonight mafia

plus, is this the hardclaim you're talking about?

yeah

[PlusJOYED]

theater can be a lot of things, Ydrasse; it's not necessarily just emotive back and forth. The timing of the theater and the outcome + agenda it serves is critical.
A key trend in theater I've noticed is that it's intention is for one maf member to scumread the other maf member briefly, and the accused mafia member convinces the other maf that they are solidly town, which is exactly what happened.

[PlusJOYED]

that serious defensiveness and deciding to wall me out makes me more sure ur scum, you aren't even trying to defend yourself.
if shelly or ydrasse flip green, kill me tomorrow because we're screwed anyway

[PlusJOYED]

The wincon is throwing me off of ydrasse, and setting up chain elims with (me, bob, osuka)

[PlusJOYED]

you have a tone of being defensive and are outraged but you're producing no arguments why you can't be scum, and instead trying to get me killed

[PlusJOYED]

The wincon is throwing me off of ydrasse, and setting up chain elims with (me, bob, osuka)

okay, now tell me how we succeeded in that if you are sitting here right now having this conversation.

also, tell me why shelly/ydrasse, as a team, decide to make their wincon centered around

you

. only you, throwing you off our trail and no one else.

shelly hopped on as soon as possible with the theater. It was to be triggered when anyone SR you, not revolved around me, and was to prevent a wagon forming on you.
I'll make a wall of why it's Scuk theater soon im at work atm

[PlusJOYED]

you have a tone of being defensive and are outraged but you're producing no arguments why you can't be scum, and instead trying to get me killed

i am outraged because you're refusing to do something that should by all means be beneficial to you! how am i supposed to defend myself, anyways, against a case that you haven't even produced?

i am trying to get you killed because your logic is horrendous at this point and i don't think it's in a townie way.

your plan is to mislim me and osuka consecutively.

[PlusJOYED]

The wincon is throwing me off of ydrasse, and setting up chain elims with (me, bob, osuka)

okay, now tell me how we succeeded in that if you are sitting here right now having this conversation.

also, tell me why shelly/ydrasse, as a team, decide to make their wincon centered around

you

. only you, throwing you off our trail and no one else.

you didn't succeed, I caught you guys

[PlusJOYED]

The wincon is throwing me off of ydrasse, and setting up chain elims with (me, bob, osuka)

okay, now tell me how we succeeded in that if you are sitting here right now having this conversation.

also, tell me why shelly/ydrasse, as a team, decide to make their wincon centered around

you

. only you, throwing you off our trail and no one else.

shelly hopped on as soon as possible with the theater. It was to be triggered when anyone SR you, not revolved around me, and was to prevent a wagon forming on you.
I'll make a wall of why it's Scuk theater soon im at work atm

that doesn't make sense, because there hasn't been a point on this game where i've been threatened with a wagon. there was no need to prevent something that had no chance of forming. looking at the vote counts, i haven't even been voted since d1 — and even those were singular votes at the beginning of the day. no one has been trying to vote against me or really case me, so why would shelly need to defend me?

are you listening? I started to SR you, day 3 and then shelly initiated theater trying to convince me of Ydrasse town (which worked for a bit). It was to quash a wagon before it even started.

[PlusJOYED]

At the very least, can we agree that me vs Ydrasse is TvS?

[PlusJOYED]

I've gtg now, but I'm very pleased with my findings.

[PlusJOYED]

Do you think I'm scum if osuka is red andres?

[PlusJOYED]

Do you think I'm scum if osuka is red andres?

If Osuka flips Scum, I would flip you only to ensure that you’re not in ELo. See the thing is, I want us to win. And for that to happen, we need to execute Scum and avoid any traps. We still have one more mis-elimination left if Osuka does in fact flip red. I would absolutely burn that on you.

fair enough
I ask because if osuka does flip red im not going to be that useful, it"ll be my nail in the coffin for being wrong this game
But my concern is if osuka flips green like I think he will, 3 town 2 maf lylo will be very hard. They only need to convince 1 of the 3 town left that I'm scum and it's over.

[PlusJOYED]

fair enough andre. I trust you and mena very much, and from what I gather that's the elim for today. There is a chance im just super wrong and osuka is scum

[PlusJOYED]

intent on osuka. I don't want to hammer but I think this is the only way I'll convince town of my solve

[PlusJOYED]

The fact that Kerset was aiming to still try and survive after a few of us came out so aggressively against the slot was also puzzling. But yeah, I think that if Osuka flips red, shellyc is always Town. I would take that one read to the bank.

yeah I can see that

[PlusJOYED]

Yeah I mean that post by Osuka confirms it right. shellyc v. Osuka I think is not SvS. At least I doubt it Osuka was pushing shellyc before trying to compromise with the slot to potentially vote for Bob. One of them is surely Scum.

agreed
i'd prefer to flip shelly over osuka though

[PlusJOYED]

Yeah I mean that post by Osuka confirms it right. shellyc v. Osuka I think is not SvS. At least I doubt it Osuka was pushing shellyc before trying to compromise with the slot to potentially vote for Bob. One of them is surely Scum.

agreed
i'd prefer to flip shelly over osuka though

*eyebrow raise*

what? I told you I think the solve is Ydrasse/Shelly/Kerset
i don't want to elim what I think is town here if I can help it

[PlusJOYED]

innocentvillager [5]: Kerset, osuka, Andresvmb, Tayl0r Swift, PlusJOYED

s, osuka, andre, t , t

Highly unlikely that both osuka and andre are town. And i rather think andre is townie. He has sew sawed between me and osuka in townie way. rather than flip flopping

I love games with this many slips.

HOW DO YOU KNOW PLUS IS TOWN BOB.

this slip mena

[PlusJOYED]

along with recent meta behavior I can now talk about (silent star 2)

what happened in silent star 2?

it was very recent, Ydrasse was scum that game, and imo her play and tone is very similar to that game and this game.
i will admit I wasn't super invested that game compared to my usual but it was something I noticed. Maybe I'll wall it but I don't think it'd be worth the effort considering people seem very dead set on osuka today and im at the gym atm

[PlusJOYED]

also like, I just went back and remember why I didn't think of that as a slip and it's because andres stated on the same page that he was joking and bob stated that it was because he was doing analysis on the

assumption

you were town

he did?
man day 3 was a damn mess

[PlusJOYED]

meh
I think theres little way I can convince you guys at this point and I think town is gonna get stomped on lylo, I'm starting to feel defeated.
my obvtown reads think im scum (mena mainly)
I'm pretty confident me and osuka are both town, same with Andres and mena
if i flip today we enter lylo where andres votes osuka and scum quickhammer
if osuka flips today we enter lylo where mena votes me and scum quickhammers
I think we lose
on the bright side I've never been alive this long before

[PlusJOYED]

Yeah I mean that post by Osuka confirms it right. shellyc v. Osuka I think is not SvS. At least I doubt it Osuka was pushing shellyc before trying to compromise with the slot to potentially vote for Bob. One of them is surely Scum.

agreed
i'd prefer to flip shelly over osuka though

*eyebrow raise*

what? I told you I think the solve is Ydrasse/Shelly/Kerset
i don't want to elim what I think is town here if I can help it

your solve is wrong on me and probably wrong on ydrasse and you’re just spitballing not gamesolving
can you actually CASE or EXPLAIN

i've explained the best of my ability of why I think it's theater outside of a wall quoting it all, same for silent star 2

It doezn't look like I'll be able to stop the Osuka -> plus elim so I've kind of given up atm, may try later

Ydrasse and shelly have town fooled so well it's actually nutty

[PlusJOYED]

what changed?

joyed also scum reads me

pedit: as town another obligation to have is to avoid getting miseliminated as that benefits scums wincon

joyed has been following my reads for quite a while not, he just scumreads you by proxy

not true

[PlusJOYED]

joyed has been following my reads for quite a while not, he just scumreads you by proxy

@joyed

why are you following osukas reads constantly. don’t you TR other people, why don’t you follow their reads.

i haven't been following osukas reads on purpose
we have mostly arrived at the same conclusion tho

[PlusJOYED]

poor osuka, i wish this game could have gone differently

[PlusJOYED]

called it

[PlusJOYED]

<3

[PlusJOYED]

this game has the best twilight

[PlusJOYED]

kill shelly gang

[PlusJOYED]

VOTE: shellyc
im sticking with my solve

[PlusJOYED]

...
"commuter" is very strong town role, why didn't you include yourself? That's sus af
also the fact that neither me nor shelly has been quickhammered to me indicates from an outside pov that 1 of us is scum for sure. shelly/ndmath might be probable but im fairy certain shelly is in the scumteam

[PlusJOYED]

i am vt btw
im actually sus of ndmath honestly.
if I was town commuter (without limitations at that, since NDMath didn't claim gated commuter, he claimed commuter) I'd want to obvtown super hard and to try and eat the mafia NK, or even fakeclaim a strong town role to bait maf. Instead NDMath was super quiet and hid most of the game and made mostly scummy filtered posts.
I could see a NDMath/shellyc team or possibly a shellyc/Ydrasse team here. I know mena is my locktown here and I am most sus of shelly being scum. Ydrasse/ndmath are a tossup for being shelly's partner.

[PlusJOYED]

where that claim at menal

listen. osuka always falls into tunnels and stupid TvT shitfights and Andres didnt consider that, and they actually townread me for a fair bit
its obvious who scum is

why did you go after osuka so much then if you knew that?
you pulling up a bob post (from a townie), but covertly waiting until osuka is neutralized to post it, makes more sure you are the scum here

[PlusJOYED]

ive been mulling over this, joyed is outed from my perspective, there’s no way that vote ever comes from town, there’s no way all of bob plus osuka are town, there’s no way their confusing reads are are usually unexplained come from town

VOTE: PlusJoy

This is scum. Vote it out.

setting up chain elims yet again to win the game

[PlusJOYED]

hmmmmm.

@plus, at what point did you switch from me/shelly to shelly/ndmath as the most likely team?

im still on the fence about who shellys partner is
but i suspected nd mainly after thinking about the commuter claim

[PlusJOYED]

i think mena's claim will be important here. if mena is a pr they should out, and i do think there is 1 town pr left no more no less

[PlusJOYED]

well maybe. we know of a maf rolestopper

[PlusJOYED]

this is the slowest limlo ever

[PlusJOYED]

they push bob, then osuka, then me now that its limlo

[PlusJOYED]

are y’all having that very insightful discussion in a secret hood and why is this game stalling out so much

I bet dead thread is more active than this thread now

agreeeeeee
i also think we should elim me or shelly today
it's been more than 24 hours scum would have quickhammered 1 of us by now even if they are slow

i also find it very telling that andres expressed intent on going after shelly if osuka flipped green iirc

[PlusJOYED]

If Osuka flips Town nuke shellyc.

here

[PlusJOYED]

I gave it some more thought
the fact that no one claimed a pr today and based on setup and ndmaths reasoning he's very likely town
that leaves shelly/ydrasse

[PlusJOYED]

mena is locktown for me since their iv interaction
if menal was anything other than vt ndmath would be sus

[PlusJOYED]

I was originally backup JK and since D3 I've been promoted. I didn't crumb but I can point to a couple of points in the game where I think my role was very clearly influencing my play.

I was on shelly last night, but I didn't want to out this earlier because it's not actually clearing as (1) still 2 scum and (2) if shelly isn't the role stopper then my JK could just have failed. I wanted to get math to talk more about the balance thing to see if he was using it to try to buy towncred or if it was valid and whether it fit with my presence here. I think it's possible that there could be a commuter, as in I don't think it locks him in as scum, but I think probably both scum need to be PRs for that to be the case.

The possibilities for scum teams that I was talking about earlier today are that it's either:

Shelly + plus -- in this case, they've realised they're in the two weakest positions and that there's a very real risk they get flipped back-to-back if they try to defend each other so they enter with a hard bus attempt for the cred. This is currently where I'm leaning.

Plus + math -- in this case, plus and math realise they're both in vulnerable positions so math fakeclaims commuter, plus forces a 1v1, and then either they win or if it's looking like it's going wrong math busses plus and then I guess no kills and uses that to support a "scum tried to kill me so I'm conf now, we need to kill shelly".

I think mechanically shelly is slightly less likely to be scum than plus -- if she is and she's paired with ydrasse or math, I struggle to see how their play makes a lot of sense for a rolestopper. Ydrasse specifically had the game going well for her D1 and then decided to draw attention onto herself as PR for ?? reasons. But I would like to reread around the hammer just to make sure my memory is correct. Math, likewise, probably doesn't claim ascetic D1 in his opening if he's scum PR? Like that seems like it only makes sense if he's a goon and is planning to try to get confirmed using the rolestopper. Shelly could still be the rolestopper, and I am somewhat paranoid of shelly+math bringing plus to here for the easy win given that I've been susp there practically all game.

I'm not really bothering to think too much about ydrasse+shelly, ydrasse+math, ydrasse+plus teams because I have limited time and by that point we're starting to get into the whole "teams I'd be okay losing to" territory anyway.

woah

[PlusJOYED]

from a ndmath/shelly or ydrasse/shelly team, i think its less likely that shelly submits the kill after what andre said

[PlusJOYED]

i think at minimum for a mini there needs to be 6 vts
so far
saudade
iv
bob
osuka
me
ydrasse?
shellyc?

prs
teacher
andres
taylor
mena?
ndmath?
i think ndmath or mena has to be lying here, and I reckon its math since mena has been really townie this whole game and is townlocked for me
in that case, the play is to elim math, he flips mafia rolestopper

[PlusJOYED]

5 prs is way too much for a mini sooo
UNVOTE: shellyc
VOTE: ndmath

[PlusJOYED]

my final solve with menas claim is ndmath/shellyc

[PlusJOYED]

fine
UNVOTE: ndmath

[PlusJOYED]

agreed
im not super hopeful tho since I've been in the TvS situations against shelly twice and i've lost both as town with me mislimed
shelly is good at convincing town where to vote

[PlusJOYED]

But it’s shit like this that just makes no sense to me from either alignment but I’m gonna feel worse about then losing to that if shelly is town and my TR there was good and it is just math + plus

Like I don’t understand why you ever unvote there when the person should be conf!scum to you, especially when I don’t understand what happened to the possibility of shelly/ydrasse that you had before. Like has that completely evaporated? I would expect shelly being conf!scum to you would make you more concerned about that being right again vs less

But then equally, voting math also doesn’t make sense for scum!plus because it just looks so off in an optics sense and ugh

you misunderstand mena
i still think ydrasse has played a scummy game, i think scummier than ndmath even
but there cannot be 5 town prs, and since you claimed backup jk, we had 3 pr flips, and you are locktown to me
so therefore commuter is fake
ndmath being shellys partner is just my poe, so therefore ydrasse has to be town
what i think would make the most sense from a scumteam pov is for shelly to be the rolestopper and ndmath claims ascetic/commuter while doing the nk most nights so they'll be immune to everything basically

[PlusJOYED]

if my above case is true, i think the ascetic/commuter fakeclaim makes sense 100%

[PlusJOYED]

god i already know its you but you pulled this same shit in as scum twice against me
its frustrating when you know the answer but cant convince town. i wish osuka was still alive
imma go out on a limb and say bob and iv played omega sus and I would have voted them again if i went back in time, but im not exactly good at this game either

[PlusJOYED]

Also shelly theres no way there is 5 prs, what are you smoking
that'd mean half of town is VT half is a pr

[PlusJOYED]

half the town being prs in a normal is insane to me, its not possible and i've never seen it
we shouldn't vote outside of me/shelly anyway

[PlusJOYED]

basicially mena I don't believe you. There has to be 4 prs this game for it to make sense and I won't be convinced otherwise
the solve is shelly/ndmath
regardless, no way me and shelly isn't TvS
lets just end this day now im getting sick of the back and forth myself and people being inactive
i also have a meta tell on shelly being scum and ydrasee town im not gonna share
but scum!shelly loves to seem friendly and appease the rest of town. Look back to doggos and hedgehog newbie, she did the same stuff there too

[PlusJOYED]

the fact that people are on at different times is annoying to me too

[PlusJOYED]

im sick of saying stuff and waiting 20 hours for a response
VOTE: shellyc
im sticking to this, I'm waiting for people to make up their minds between me and shelly today.
I'll answer questions tho

[PlusJOYED]

no

[PlusJOYED]

well... shit, maybe I need to rethink NdMath/Ydrasse for shellys partner
i have to get shelly dead today regardless

[PlusJOYED]

reason being, is that I was pretty sure 4 prs was the max but if 2 people are saying that's wrong then I might be wrong

[PlusJOYED]

shelly im kinda impressed you managed to bring me along with 2 super pussyfooting players today. I'm lowkey impressed lylo has gone on this long

[PlusJOYED]

[quote="In post 4952, shellyc"]why are you still posturing around scum
/quote]
ha, so you know im town. nice slip
or maybe that was intentional to sell mena?

[PlusJOYED]

oops broken quote

[PlusJOYED]

I’m not gonna lie, you two can towncase/scumcase each other as you like but I have a moderately long-standing rule about not listening to anything slots who have confirmed scum in them say on the day of lylo, and instead looking at trajectories throughout the game

Which is what I’m planning to try and do once I have some time and before I make a final choice, although I would say I’m definitely leaning plus atm

i feel like I've made my points already, just waiting on you guys
though I will say this: bussing here in lylo doesn't make sense from a scumteam perspective, but literally everyone else today has leaned voting me all of day 5 (math, mena, shelly, ydrasse)
especially now that you've revealed that your jk mena and ndmath might be commuter, why would any of my potential scumpartners wanna take the chance of getting jailed and losing?
I also think you might be misunderstanding meta here
im town, have acted like my town meta the whole time. I don't care about looking townie I care about solving
shellyc has a meta habit of bussing early and the fact that she voted kerset means nothing.

Anyway, I don't care as much about winning and losing, so if you wanna vote me out go ahead, but I prefer if you listened to andres who can't speak today.
Shellyc wants to win more than me, and I don't mind losing too much if I'm right here, mainly when town was pretty shitty this game. The only town slots I think that played decent were saudade, andres?, and mena?
I dislike being at E1 a long time, hurry up.
my solve remains ndmath/shellyc/kerset
I also think Ydrasse has played an incredibly scummy game, and wouldn't be too shocked if the solve becomes shellyc/ydrasse/kerset

[PlusJOYED]

Oh also, to spite shellyc (pretty sure she is aussie time), I'm gonna self vote in 23 hours so she doesn't get the win on the day of her joindate + 3 months

[PlusJOYED]

pls dont AtE plus.

if it's math/me I didnt bus at all (bussing and distancing are not the same thing)
if it's ydrasse/me i probably did the opposite of bussing if anything

you bussed kerset

[PlusJOYED]

i explained already
after kerset made that post about not healing saude on purpose there's no way that came from scum
there's honestly no point since people have made up their minds already

[PlusJOYED]

the 3 month thing was a pretty obvious scumslip but "SCuM SliPs aRe ToWniE"
also shelly if im scum and your town why would I kill andres who last said they were gonna nuke you
peddit: not healing a cop claim is stupid regardless

[PlusJOYED]

meh shelly really wants it
whatever, im ready for this game to end
VOTE: plusjoy
hammer me someone

[PlusJOYED]

gj maf, especially mena. Impressive, i never woulda thought you would hard defend a townie as maf when you coulda just ended day 1 right there
I don't feel bad self voting there cause everyone was locked on voting me and I was exhausted.

[PlusJOYED]

thx mena
yeah my town game wasn't super good this game but it was my first non newbie game so i think that's normal