Large Normal 229 | Manatee's Musical Mafia | Game Over

[Town looter]

Actually there is one scenario where the motion detecting is useful: If JV is scum and you don't tell us who you are going to detect

and

there is a night kill. In that scenario you have a 50% chance of getting a useful result as long as Titus does not use their PR.

[Town looter]

Your post does not convince me to abandon the plan and I will explain why tomorrow. But I want to hear your case on scum JV.

Oh nah I didn't mean not go ahead with the current plan.

Trying to get a mechanical guilty/not-guilty on me or Titus is absolutely the right thing to do, and likely optimal play. I just don't think we have an insta-win if Ralph flips red, because I can be made to look guilty (NK) or made to look not innocent (no NK) even though I am town.

[Town looter]

Trying to convince be that Ralph is possibly town is kinda moot don't you think. Unless this is directly addressed to me but is aimed at Glitch. Feel free to make your cases, overall if Ralph played well enough to yeet me considering everything they've played really well and should be proud of how they played.

LOL, good point. I was mostly talking to Glitch, but yeah, I did address you...

If Glitch focuses the ability directly onto Titus instead of WIFOMing it will defeat that fear would it not? Would there be any holes that I am missing by giving scum knowledge of who is being checked? I don't think so.

Yeah. I was only looking at it from my POV. I can't frame them, so it makes sense to get them to not use night ability and check them. Althou I think the plan is for Glitch to not share who they will check right? I think optimal play is to not share MD target, force a no-kill and no elim tomorrow.

If Titus is final scum. They will be unable to frame you with their loud PR and kill with multitasking. They will no matter what be able to no-kill.
If I am final scum I will be forced to no-kill, but that's the thing Glitch was saying earlier.
If Glitch is final scum, the Motion detector will be fake but we can simply just 1v1 Glitch and the guiltied player just to make sure we're not all being jebaited.
If Looter is final scum, a kill will be caught and you will be 100% confirmed that you were not framed by Titus's ability.

Does this fix the holes or not really? Or if I made absolute no sense let me know too

In your Scum!Titus scenario you mean they can't kill without being motion detector guilty'd right? Because we are asking them not to use their night ability.

Also Scum!you can still kill and get away with it - you just can't kill Glitch and prevent his results.

Finally, I am confused as to Scum!Looter's kill being caught and then me being 100% confirmed...? I thought we were checking Titus...

Either way, if we are eliminating Ralph, which I am still undecided on (working thru JV ISO right now, shit ain't a small task, esp with associations...), I think optimal play is as described above (Glitch doesn't say who he will check).

[Town looter]

What stops looter from just saying titus visited them to get a ML

It just creates a 1 v 1 where Glitch is conftown. We could always force ppl to claim if I visited them before Glitch outs the results. Then Looter trying to fake a visit is a scumclaim if Glitch checked me.

I feel like such a party pooper saying this... But Micc has been announcing when people are added to the 'hood, so I would probably know if Glitch checked Titus...

[Town looter]

Watch the scum PR be a roleblocker and they target me

There is almost zero chance of a roleblocker, and if there is one, it's very likely Ralph is town (otherwise we have two town PRs who are yet to be RB'd) - so if we eliminate Ralph, then are wonderful plan is meaningless anyway.

[Town looter]

The way all 4 of us are so on board with this is to be expected and yet makes me wonder what scum is up to.

Indeed.

One reason they would be on board with it is if Ralph is town and night action planning is irrelevant.

[Town looter]

6 more posts kgo.

[Town looter]

your are nearly at 1000 posts in this game.

[Town looter]

Ok I am about halfway. I'm back to leaning town on you. Probably 60/40 on Scum!Ralph (so flipping my previous read). But that is without ISOing Ralph yet.

My brain has been well and truly fried though. I don't have a problem with your energetic random shit normally - kind of entertaining in it's own way. But 500 posts of it? Yikes.

Probably doesn't help that I watched a music video you posted. It's fair to say I am not a fan of whatever the fuck

that

was, but different folks, different strokes.

[Town looter]

In fact, I think kpop might be the literal opposite of music I like.

[Town looter]

I know my music taste isn’t well accepted outside of its own community. I rarely find anyone that likes what I do lmfao

I’ll respond to the content though when I get on my computer

You do you brah. My wife f'n hates my music.

[Town looter]

Sorry guys, work is kicking my arse, so I don't have time to reply right now.

We've got exactly 24 hours and I still haven't made my mind up. I will try and do as much as work and life allows for.

[Town looter]

TBF you don't need me to make my mind up. Worst case, if we only have two votes tomorrow because scum is trying to get the timer to run out I will hammer whoever has the votes 2 hours before deadline.

[Town looter]

You SR more

outside

of the red-check?

Yes because I don't have you as locktown.
Glitch I am pretty sure is town.
You v Ralph would ham it up more if S v S. Ralph would have a definite strategy. Here the guilty seemed to surprise him, like he thought you'd check town.
If you v Ralph has just one scum and Glitch is town, Looter must be scum. His play is scummy. His role claim is scummy.

whats the case on loots? why is his clime scummy?

He claims night 3 gunsmith

yet doesn't suspect the real gunsmith's claim is fake

. He denies fakeclaiming too.

He's largely sat out of lylo willing to vote anyone and is shading everyone. He's trying to pick his 1 v 1.

Regarding highlighted: Banking on people not reading my ISO eh?

Spoiler:

"I voted him but he's not scummy" really sells a wagon.

VOTE: titus
I still scumread them.

Something about this really bugs me, but I think I have a SR bias on you Fwesnid for some reason.

I can dig up more examples if you like as well. I was highly sceptical of their claim. But I also was not confident that two different types of gunsmith in the same game is impossible - and turns out that lack of confidence was well justified, as that is exactly what we have.

[Town looter]

Ralph's argument is pretty bad, he obviously completely missed the context around Manatee's VC and the DDL elimination - it was a messy phase of the game due to mod error. So in isolation looks like inexperienced scum scrambling for a case. In fact it kinda looks like he was scrambling for a case in a place that was suggested by someone else (JV has a whole lot of posts, so it would be logical to build a case from page 1 no?).

That being said, JV keeps pinging me - in fact he has being doing this the whole game. Nothing definitively scummy, but there are these minor inconsistencies and things that bug me. But really this could just be a playstyle thing, because he has done some very towny things too... There is also the elephant in the room that is his claimed PR... it just seems so powerful in the scheme of things.

[Town looter]

I am mean >:)

Humour me here JV. Why did you make this post?

[Town looter]

sheely is obtown

Hmm, another random post I found in my deep dive.

[Town looter]

Ok I am officially burnt out on this game.

I didn't really see what Glitch was talking about in terms of Shelly/JV interactions. But I also didn't see anything overly scum indicative.

I'll vote Ralph in the morning, although i'd still rather vote Titus, as my read on them is far more solid (recent JV/Ralph interactions make Ralph/JV team unlikely, thus making Titus almost confirmed scum from my POV).

[Town looter]

Oh I didn't get all the way through. But I can't do any more...

[Town looter]

My lingering concern for you to think about Glitch is the fact Titus hasn't voted yet. If she was town she would have had something to contribute to the game spec/balance discussion, and likely voted for JV if she thought the game was imbalanced with Town PR JV.

She hasn't really discussed spec much at all, which is odd given her experience.

This lends itself to a JV/Titus team, but, well, I don't have any good reason to think JV is scum.

[Town looter]

LOL A50, get fucking over yourself.

It's a game, and this was a particularly good one even though we lost. Being a sore loser and calling out bad play in a negative way is just a dick move. Nice job on turning the end of game banter into something toxic.

ANYHOO...

Massive effort posts, good scum theatre, hard bussing, consistent protown play and of course 1000 fucking posts lol.

You definitely won the game for scum JV, well done.

It wasn't even a matter of me not being able to convince others you were guilty, because I didn't think you were. You fucked up plenty, but not bad enough and not often enough to get yourself eliminated (and Ralph helped you by doing just as much).

My last game post is lol. Turns out I had you guys nailed. But I wasn't willing to vote it so can't really gloat.

Shoulda pushed harder to vote outside red-check and elim the obvscum... ah well. I learned a lot and had a lot of fun.

[Town looter]

I really am curious how the neighbourhood and dead PT's went down. Also fyi. I have over 200 posts in the mafia PT where nobody has more than 100. I post a lot

Hood was pretty dead, paranoia crept in and killed it pretty much.

I am guessing there is some spicy bantz in the dead thread. Sounds like Norway, Nero, et al. all took things way too seriously haha.

[Town looter]

Not gonna lie, this game had be super paranoid the entire time holy shit. Also I don't see how we won with the PR's we got vs what town has like oh god

Heh, I hope I contributed to that paranoia.

[Town looter]

I spent like 800 posts here.
Obvs i’d take it seriously.

What I mean by taking it too seriously: Getting bitter when you lose or make mistakes (or observe mistakes in others), arguing in a destructive way and not doing the equivalent of shaking hands once the final whistle has blown (with the final whistle being the dead thread for some).

Playing hard and giving your all, wanting to win and being (constructively) passionate is all good. I literally waded through JVs ISO until my eyes bled, so I feel ya.

[Town looter]

Also FU Schadd* - I am pretty proud of myself for turning your negative/zero utility town PR into a scum elimination

(*I'm kidding of course, very good set up, and I very much love your style)

[Town looter]

Sorry Looter for the shading. Once Glitch was obvtown someone else had to be scum so I took advantage of your inactivity.

Haha, I would've done the same in a heartbeat, so no need to apologise!

You were boxed in at endgame, so it's just unfortunate I didn't have enough experience to really nail you down. Game spec alone should have given me enough to win the game.

[Town looter]

Well maybe not win, but get you eliminated

[Town looter]

Haha yep.

Turns out A50 is a bit of a twat, but a sharp player. Might read a few of his games.

[Town looter]

I have no words

What did you expect anyway? For me to magically get trusted and not get hammered later?

Did not expect you to self-hammer, especially when I was going to do some ISO'ing.

Also Titus, be on me. MM shoot within Ralph/Stan. Glitch choose who you want to neighbourize, I of course want myself in there but that might just be personal bias.

I think that's a default win for town.

If NEE flips town, Titus needs to take the shot. That way we get Titus flip, and one of our POE.

It's how we win (well, kind of, we will still have a somewhat difficult LYLO by my reckoning).

I'm looking at you MM

[Town looter]

With my inexperienced eye, I think the only thing that I would say is unbalanced is the Disloyal modifier on the roleblocker, but even then I am not sure.

Remember my PR will provide negative utility a lot of the time. Me turning it into positive utility was lucky.

If I had been run up to E-1, if Fwesnid had checked me or even if Glitch spotted me moving, I would have had to claim, and claiming Night 3 Gunsmith is not something that is likely to fly. Especially since you can add a bunch of Mod/Spec WIFOM around mafia Docs (you saw how Ydr was read, for example).

Similarly, Vengeful Vig hurt more than it helped, and was one of the many reasons we lost (no offence MM, I wouldn't have done any better).

I don't see Town winning this 99% of the time. I think it's slightly town-sided because of the disloyal modifier.

I do think it is very swingy based on skill though. All the PRs (except mine), and the scum NKs, can dictate a game if executed well.