mystery box of silver 10. (done)

[TheGoldenParadox]

VOTE: morning mage imagine not posting on your hydra! gotta be a scumslip <3

[TheGoldenParadox]

dang a50, haven't seen you in a while. how's it going?

[TheGoldenParadox]

I claim the largest ego in this game.

~Buttercup

Youre going to have some very very stiff competition buddy

What the duck did you just ducking say about me, you little self-voter? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Forum Academy, and I’ve been involved in secret raids on skitter-Dannflor hydras, and I have over 300 confirmed mislaunches. I am trained in WIFOM and I’m the top OMGUSer in the entire mafiascum community. You are nothing to me but just another lolhammer. I will Preview-Edit you out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this website mark my words. You think you can get away with saying shit to me over the Internet? Think again, ducker. As we speak I am contacting my network of alt-accounts across my computer and your name is being voted for right now so you better prepare for the storm, duffer. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your account. You’re ducking dead, newbie. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can modkill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my Noraa account. Not only am I extensively trained in ISO analysis, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the Semi-Experienced playerbase and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your ass off the face of this RVS, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your tongue. You didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn MyLo. I will IIoA all over you and you will drown in EBWOP. You’re ducking dead, Vecna.

~Buttercup

VOTE: ban hydras

can someone explain what is going on? hectic=noraa? or

VOTE: morning mage imagine not posting on your hydra! gotta be a scumslip <3

Town.

mwahg
VOTE: battle mage

Harooo~
UwU

Town?

anyone who suggests this is scummy, is wrong. it's standard play.

It might be standard play but I still think you're scum from it, anyway.

aw thanks mastina! consider me pocketed.

[TheGoldenParadox]

@mastina, how sure are you in your d1 locktown reads? without playing with you/knowing your meta well, i have no idea what you mean by locktown here

[TheGoldenParadox]

i feel like the potential benefit from a mastina scumflip today is massively outweighed by the drawbacks of flipping town!mastina, and in any case she seems to be making a concentrated effort to gamesolve, but i'm not sure if that's nai for her. VOTE: plusjoyed their entire push on mastina feels manufactured and 575 and 674 ping me as calling out something for which there is no reason to call out.

[TheGoldenParadox]

goddamn it these hydras

[TheGoldenParadox]

i feel like the potential benefit from a mastina scumflip today is massively outweighed by the drawbacks of flipping town!mastina, and in any case she seems to be making a concentrated effort to gamesolve, but i'm not sure if that's nai for her. VOTE: plusjoyed their entire push on mastina feels manufactured and 575 and 674 ping me as calling out something for which there is no reason to call out.

I'm speechless. VOTE: goldenparadox

aww, nice to see i've taken your breath away. i tend to have that effect on people. <3

[TheGoldenParadox]

i feel like the potential benefit from a mastina scumflip today is massively outweighed by the drawbacks of flipping town!mastina, and in any case she seems to be making a concentrated effort to gamesolve, but i'm not sure if that's nai for her. VOTE: plusjoyed their entire push on mastina feels manufactured and 575 and 674 ping me as calling out something for which there is no reason to call out.

I'm speechless. VOTE: goldenparadox

aww, nice to see i've taken your breath away. i tend to have that effect on people. <3

[TheGoldenParadox]

i feel like the potential benefit from a mastina scumflip today is massively outweighed by the drawbacks of flipping town!mastina, and in any case she seems to be making a concentrated effort to gamesolve, but i'm not sure if that's nai for her. VOTE: plusjoyed their entire push on mastina feels manufactured and 575 and 674 ping me as calling out something for which there is no reason to call out.

I'm speechless. VOTE: goldenparadox

aww, nice to see i've taken your breath away. i tend to have that effect on people. <3

i feel the exact opposite way to you on a mastina-elim today. tell me the net downside of flipping town mastina?

that she's a strong town player who cuts through a shitton of the bullshit we've created this game. do you actually scumread her? i'd think she's a competent enough scum player that a d1 mastina!scum flip wouldn't get too much information.
furthermore, your vote on me because i'm openly defending her implies that you either think i'm scum trying to pocket/defend a townie or we're scum together, implying the latter because apparently you also believe she is scum. want to elaborate on this a lil?

[TheGoldenParadox]

did you.. see the posts i linked?

[TheGoldenParadox]

Plus-scum gunning for Mastina-town wouldnt make sense. such a counterproductive play. So assume Plus is town unless Mastina flips scum first?

why would that be a counterproductive play

i feel like the potential benefit from a mastina scumflip today is massively outweighed by the drawbacks of flipping town!mastina, and in any case she seems to be making a concentrated effort to gamesolve, but i'm not sure if that's nai for her. VOTE: plusjoyed their entire push on mastina feels manufactured and 575 and 674 ping me as calling out something for which there is no reason to call out.

Town!mastina will be dead by day 3 or day 4. You should know that. No reason to wagon her. Bad post.

not sure if you know this but night kill wifom exists

norwee, I'm sort of TRing you and have an unpleasant feeling that that probably means you're scum

Oh and norwee can go in the town pile for today actually

Although me thinking he’s town does probably increase the odds of him really being scum so

I liked these takes, old chum. Slightly harder to fake as scum.

Otherwise, I want to say your openwolfing is town-indicative, because in the 2 scumgames I've seen you in, I haven't seen it done (although those were alts so maybe different playstyle etcetc)

Any read on us? Don't you dare say we're null.

~Buttercup

Like, if this is the spectrum, you’re here-ish:

Conftown
Extreme town
Super town
Locktown
Strong townread
Townread
Very town
Weak townread
Strong townlean
Mostly town
Townlean
Weak townlean
Kinda town I guess
Null town
Null +
Nullish town
True Null - Ban Hydras
Scummy null
Null minus
Null scum
Sort of scummy
Weak scumlean
Scumlean
Mostly scummy
Strong scumlean
Weak scumread
Solidly scummy
Scumread
Strong scumread
Lockscum
Suuuper scummy
Extremely scum
Confscum

(Also I do openwolf as a wolf but mostly because I like doing it a lot as town and I’m cognisant or avoiding trust tells — up to you to decide how much I’m enjoying it rn)

townreading menal for this

[TheGoldenParadox]

goddamn it can someone explain why it's impossible to submit a post this is a forum not a chatroom

[TheGoldenParadox]

townreading menal for this

Why? It was a joke post.

~Buttercup

because it doesn't seem like the kind of post i see scum casually making in jest

[TheGoldenParadox]

As scum would you be above claiming set up ignorance for easy town points?

I don't fake ignorance, but that doesn't mean scumastina can't be genuinely ignorant.

I never fake a mistake, but I can genuinely make a legit mistake.

i hate this self meta so much
peddit guys please stop i have a headache

they have twentyish thousand posts of meta would you like to prove otherwise

plusjoyed is pinging me so hard

[TheGoldenParadox]

NorwegianboyEE, what are your thoughts on Gamma and Menalque?

Mena's push on Gamma doesn't seem like buddy/buddy but it's aggressive. I'm townleaning Mena's aggressiveness as that's more their town style. Gamma looks nullscum to me, and it's a growing wagon so i'm interested to see where it will be going.

can you sum up the case on gamma beyond "they haven't posted much in this game/they haven't done much actual scum hunting" because i feel like that describes >50% of the players in this game

[TheGoldenParadox]

VOTE: ban hydras

this slot is making it difficult to play and it feels like they're doing this deliberately. can you block one player's posts and read the thread? kinda like an opposite iso?

[TheGoldenParadox]

in general, i feel quite weird when people say "i have no read on x, therefore scum". it doesn't make any sense. the probability of them being town, if you're blindly shooting in the dark, is 75%. if you don't have a read, why are you voting them?

[TheGoldenParadox]

Except I’ve clearly indicated it’s not a blind tunnel, and I’ve shown preference

Your weak words will not damage me.

Yes tunnel chamber A or tunnel chamber B

I actually like you so Im kinda sad that Im scumreading you this hard

You uhhh.... are really trying hard to be obv!scum aren't you.

Edit: Nah. I've got Norway in a solid town slot, although I do admit I'm not sure they'll be a huge asset rn.

I actually don't think you're scum so can you try to work with me if you think I'm not being productive?

Welp town!DS hasn't changed. I am only surprised his tunnel isn't on me.

I'm not touching you until at least day 3. The general bit of the thread is hectic enough, so I'll save you once it's quieted down some.

one could say it's Hectic enough.

[TheGoldenParadox]

why does no one else dislike mastina's list like I do?

I dislike it because we're waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too low. anyone with any reasonable ration would give us town points for Blossom's excellent jokes

~Buttercup

You forgot to mention your own winning humor

^Unless you're a masochist, that is.

Says the guy posting during the twenty somethingth page of RVS.

goddamn it these hydras

I can tell this guy is impressed with our top quality obvtowning. You're welcome friendo.

i feel like the potential benefit from a mastina scumflip today is massively outweighed by the drawbacks of flipping town!mastina, and in any case she seems to be making a concentrated effort to gamesolve, but i'm not sure if that's nai for her. VOTE: plusjoyed their entire push on mastina feels manufactured and 575 and 674 ping me as calling out something for which there is no reason to call out.

Do you think buddying her will work? Hm, gl.

-Blossom

VOTE: ban hydras

this slot is making it difficult to play and it feels like they're doing this deliberately. can you block one player's posts and read the thread? kinda like an opposite iso?

why dont you just skip over the post when you see the powerpuff girls icon

i feel all these posts are very not genuine -- it's super easy to glance over posts as you read if you don't want to read someone's posts

goddamnit a50/superbowl that's awfully convenient. "we have a pt, and we all investigate as third party, but not to worry! because we are actually town, and you will take our word for it."

that being said, that seems like exactly the kind of role schadd adds to the game to fw town, so i'll begrudgingly townbin the "masons".

this gamma wagon feels too fast and too easy to be a wagon on scum. i'm wagering that there's at least two or three scum on that wagon, maybe more.

[TheGoldenParadox]

ugh why did those quote ignore that i guess

[TheGoldenParadox]

I wholeheartedly believe that dragging days to the deadline doesn't actually help town that much with more information, ESPECIALLY on D1 and ESPECIALLY in fast moving games

what it does, imo, is inundate the thread with noise that makes it hard to find the important posts to find scum. plus, the added negative that it tends to lead to more town apathy with a lack of flips and action and endless back and forhts

I think it's much more pro-town on D1 to find a slot that seems scummy, run them up, get their flip and then proceed from there on D2 with the added benefit of being able to start looking at VCA and being able to use NKA

gamma seems scummy here?

[TheGoldenParadox]

I see this is the coolkid wagon.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald
I don't highly scumread Gamma, but they haven't really towntold.

To be fair, i would gladly switch to Ban Hydras if it became apparent interest in eliminating Gamma was dying.

VOTE: norwegianboyEE

norwee is out here waving a massive neon sign yelling "hi, i'm norwee, and i rolled scum!" this is the most ballsy opportunistic wagon hopping i've seen in a while.

[TheGoldenParadox]

mod notes

[/b][/color]

• Christøpher has requested replacement
• 1615: good

ban hydras is town

[TheGoldenParadox]

goddamn it can things format correctly for once

[TheGoldenParadox]

mod notes

[/b][/color]

• Christøpher has requested replacement
• 1615: good

ban hydras is town

i think it's a modspew town

I agree on the read, but I have no idea what the quote has to do with it

k just replace me if you're going to comment on whether a post is good or not as a moderator

Actually yeah. Are we going to fucking ignore this? The mod is actively interfering with this game.
What the fuck is this

yeah that felt a bit icky.

[TheGoldenParadox]

intent to l-1

[TheGoldenParadox]

oml can we get the traditional shelly d1 quicklim

[TheGoldenParadox]

intent to l-1

why declare intent for l1
why not just do it

to get a claim before an inevitably quick hammer in a large game
VOTE: gamma

[TheGoldenParadox]

intent to l-1

why declare intent for l1
why not just do it

to get a claim before an inevitably quick hammer in a large game
VOTE: gamma

C’mon, who would quickhammer something imme-

okay who wants a townread in:

(diamondsentinel, shelly, April, morning mage, a50, ddl, TGP, Taylor, jjh, vecna, bell)

there are two available!

I don’t need your townread. I just need your vote on BH.

Also, @mod you are objectively wrong.

Why not Gamma? Are you townreading him?

Being annoyed with BH is not a good enough reason to stop the EoD.

No. I have a null read on gamma.

But whatever. I'll sheep the town. It's apparent any other option is a fool's errand.

VOTE: Gamma

the irony here was hilarious and i spent at least a minute laughing at it

[TheGoldenParadox]

intent to l-1

why declare intent for l1
why not just do it

to get a claim before an inevitably quick hammer in a large game
VOTE: gamma

C’mon, who would quickhammer something imme-

okay who wants a townread in:

(diamondsentinel, shelly, April, morning mage, a50, ddl, TGP, Taylor, jjh, vecna, bell)

there are two available!

I don’t need your townread. I just need your vote on BH.

Also, @mod you are objectively wrong.

Why not Gamma? Are you townreading him?

Being annoyed with BH is not a good enough reason to stop the EoD.

No. I have a null read on gamma.

But whatever. I'll sheep the town. It's apparent any other option is a fool's errand.

VOTE: Gamma

the irony here was hilarious and i spent at least a minute laughing at it

[TheGoldenParadox]

intent to l-1

why declare intent for l1
why not just do it

to get a claim before an inevitably quick hammer in a large game
VOTE: gamma

C’mon, who would quickhammer something imme-

okay who wants a townread in:

(diamondsentinel, shelly, April, morning mage, a50, ddl, TGP, Taylor, jjh, vecna, bell)

there are two available!

I don’t need your townread. I just need your vote on BH.

Also, @mod you are objectively wrong.

Why not Gamma? Are you townreading him?

Being annoyed with BH is not a good enough reason to stop the EoD.

No. I have a null read on gamma.

But whatever. I'll sheep the town. It's apparent any other option is a fool's errand.

VOTE: Gamma

norwee is scum this game

i'll do a pbpa or whatever but it boils down to opportunistic wagon hopping and quite possibly the most awkward buddying-distancing combo to gamma i've ever seen

[TheGoldenParadox]

screw quotes i really need to preview my posts

[TheGoldenParadox]

menalque is giving off strong townvibes and gamma's entire thing on menal feels like scum trying to coat "pulling a mislim down with him" with eight layers of wifom

[TheGoldenParadox]

what is with this game and players being horny for self meta

[TheGoldenParadox]

menal do you want to explain your towncase on norwee here bc i am really not seeing it

[TheGoldenParadox]

I have, at a minimum, Titus and mastina

Chemist probably comes on board too

Jjh probably joins mastina

Nero will be an ass about it but I’ll wager he probably ultimately comes on

Pretty sure suoerbowl will un-tunnel from me tomorrow which means I’ll have him on too

That’s 7

Norwee will join if I ask him to, I think

That’s 8

Ban hydra probably joins, 9

TGP will join if town, 10

You’re right, I’m short by one, but I’m fairly sure I can get one of the neutral-to-town slots on whcih means actually, no, I do have the numbers

oh no i'm confident in mm scum based of this twilight posting
agree with the points being made by others, they are trying to put the obvtowns into the limpool, and more stuff that i can't rly explain because site rules

[TheGoldenParadox]

i'm 99% on mm scum and the 1% is if the scumteam includes mastina menal and titus and they're playing us like a fiddle

[TheGoldenParadox]

i think april is town here but i also am completely confident that i cannot read fl in any case ever so i'll sheep better players than i on him

[TheGoldenParadox]

i feel like the public cop saying norwee isn't a member of that faction as opposed to specifically aligned with the town is meant to imply the existence of an actual 3p or multiball (not the supposed miller masons)

i also really hate the entire miller mason thing because there isn't any way to confirm it (iirc they said their role pms and therefore their flips are very sparse, and investigating that won't work at all)
willing to townbin a50 and sb9 for today, but i'm not sure how to feel there.

[TheGoldenParadox]

What i'm trying to say is that i don't see a vig killing either of Ban Hydras or Menalque. But a Serial Killer might target either.

I could see a vig targeting Menal. But my meta on them is old.

i can't. wifom, of course, but gamma going down and pointing menal doesn't seem scumpartnery, it really seems like wifom-veiled "taking a townie down"

also, welcome back blade! haven't seen you in a bit

[TheGoldenParadox]

i feel like the public cop saying norwee isn't a member of that faction as opposed to specifically aligned with the town is meant to imply the existence of an actual 3p or multiball (not the supposed miller masons)

i also really hate the entire miller mason thing because there isn't any way to confirm it (iirc they said their role pms and therefore their flips are very sparse, and investigating that won't work at all)
willing to townbin a50 and sb9 for today, but i'm not sure how to feel there.

Too bad that awkward buddying-distancing combo of mine on Gamma didn't work out eh?

no idea WHAT that was, but i'll reread when i'm back on desktop and look at if you being on a different scumteam or 3p is reasonable. until then, you can be town.

[TheGoldenParadox]

what are the odds A50 is a cult leader?

Zero imo. I buy his claim.

There are six masons in this setup.

Look who is pissed off. Scum in my VCA plus Plusjoy (who is town) and Math.

I am not pissed just confused.

I just don’t see how 6 masons and a tracker and a motion detector and plus’s role and public day cop ever gets approved. This just doesn’t seem correct. There has to be scum somewhere.

nsg approved this setup, so it has to be within the realm of reason. six masons is only sorta in the realm of reason, so i would say that to counter that town power this is definitely either multiball or 3p and scum power is pretty strong

correct me if i'm wrong, but cult games and mod lies are basically the definition of bastard on ms. i don't think that gets put into a game directly advertised as non bastard.

[TheGoldenParadox]

Pfft, this is nothing compared to Korina’s "Everything is a lie"

at one point, i was going to run a an adequately titled "the most bastard game ever run" with Kor. honestly, thank god we never did that.

[TheGoldenParadox]

the reason it's difficult to comprehend is that it means if you are town, a50, then we have six masons.

[TheGoldenParadox]

i find it interesting how quick Math is being here to trust that Norwee is town when mechanics this game have very heavily implied that it is 3p/multiball.

[TheGoldenParadox]

VOTE: something_smart

i'm mildly suspicious of ss being in this thread and yet completely ignoring the setup spec discussion happening

[TheGoldenParadox]

so superbowl, your role is a third party yellow? alternatively, every faction that is not town could be yellow.

[TheGoldenParadox]

I have no idea what you're talking about. I said explicitly that for all practical purposes we count as TOWN for the win cons of both Town and Scum.. so assuming you're town and your win con is to eliminate all threats to town my win is your win and vice versa, unless YOUR win con also states there has to be at least one "explicitly town" player alive.

I didn't check the town wincon before posting that because I am a lazy-ass. We are on the same page now.

scumslip
VOTE: something_smart y'all

"i didn't check the TOWN wincon" as opposed to "i didn't check MY wincon"

[TheGoldenParadox]

i'm a hard claimed 3p but you need to "reevaluate"? I call bullshit.

Titus, Mastina, and I are the same alignment. You either think we are doing a really really stupid gambit and we are all kings army pretending to be 3p or we are just all 3p and scum is getting owned.

There’s always the theory I have been kicking around that army is also 3P but op 3P and there is no group scum. This one is very moonlogicky though.

what do we define as 3p or group scum here

[TheGoldenParadox]

my read on ss is pretty clear: i don't think they're town at all, they've scumslipped and just generally seem to be giving off quite scummy vibes instead of the attempts to solve i would expect

bell is pretty scummy as well but that slot is eh for me it could go either way

tbh i'm just trying to wrap my head around the dual hailstorm and gaping hole of information and i'm not doing well at it my brain is fried

[TheGoldenParadox]

SS is unfortunately correct. I don't like his analysis coming out after shellyc and plus but a smart scum team would say she got nothing.

^this

[TheGoldenParadox]

the entire thing is completely nai if you look at it

if shelly is town, she legitimately did not receive anything
if she's scum, she knows there's either a loyal or a disloyal modifier. since she must have received something, and she knows that plusjoyed isn't aligned with her, she would say she didn't receive anything

any scumteam in this PL could figure this out

[TheGoldenParadox]

they've scumslipped

I don't believe you responded to this:

I don't understand why you think one way of phrasing is more likely from one alignment than the other. They are equivalent.

because it seems to me like you forgot to reread the town role pm linked on the first page, instead of your own role pm, which if town would make you more likely to say you'd check your role pm imho

it's not damning but it's a scum slip and one that seems more likely from scum

[TheGoldenParadox]

if she's scum, she knows there's either a loyal or a disloyal modifier. since she must have received something, and she knows that plusjoyed isn't aligned with her, she would say she didn't receive anything

there's a flaw
if its scum!me + loyal mod I would not have gotten anything

but the modifier isn't loyal, and scum!you therefore did get something

[TheGoldenParadox]

if it was loyal mod and you did get it it'd confirm you as town if plus was town

but it's not, and you didn't

[TheGoldenParadox]

23 scum means minimum 12 town.
Assume all 3P claims are 3P that means 18 total.
23 at start means 4 scum + SK or 5 scum and town Vig
Or
We’re looking at 3P go round and round alignment go round

5 scum and a vig is my bet. It fits with Gamma's rants perfectly. 4 scum with 3 players (in two sets) who will never vote each other is two small.

i think trusting or giving any weight to gamma's rants is a terrible idea here why would he have any incentive to tell the truth

[TheGoldenParadox]

they didn't know it was disloyal

scum shelly would have deduced it was disloyal upon getting the invention

[TheGoldenParadox]

It's not even 50/50. If she's scum and got something and she knows you're either loyal or disloyal, then obviously she knows you're disloyal and should claim she didn't get anything.

= mechanically I am more likely to be scum

uh no we're saying mechanically this entire exercise is completely nai

[TheGoldenParadox]

Explain your April case.

April is scum because this is April's scum meta through and through, at least one specific version of it.
I've seen this version of FL at least once or twice, the version where he loses a scumbuddy D1 after having lurked through D1 and tries to make a whacky crazy D2 comeback.

Beyond that: FL has shown setup knowledge on multiple fronts indicating TMI that he is scum.
Beyond that: FL claimed a role that I have role-related reasons to believe doesn't exist in the setup.
Beyond that: FL is trying to set up a role chain that I know he is capable of setting up as scum, having done it before.
Beyond that: FL hard-defended Gamma D1 when FL has a scum meta of hard-defending his scumbuddies.
Beyond that: FL has tried to shade and discredit just about every alignment-confirmed player, because if too many players are locktowned, scum are put into an auto-loss and April is trying everything in his power to prevent that.

Trust me.

I don't always know April's scumgame.

But I KNOW that this? This is April's scumgame.

He's not scum by one reason.

He's scum by every reason.

VOTE: april
okay, i'm convinced.

@Math, He's town plus that requires all three of mastina/Nero/Me to be lying or scum with A50 and one other that fake claimed d1. Literally, they cannot be evil 3p. It's against my/mastina/Nero's role pm.

Uh huh.
Right.
Exactly.

So here you go my queen.

VOTE: April

The humble peasant is getting sick and tired of telling everyone they’re being idiots for following the 3P instead of the town. I don’t believe you. But I am sick and tired of the BS.

Each time I point out a flaw you just add BS to the pile.

I figure the best way to out you is watch you fail.

And if you don’t I am closer to victory win win.

i appreciate how clear mastina has made everything after the convoluted jumble of WTF d1
i'm not sure, math. on one hand, i'm inclined to share in your disbelief. on the other hand, i townread mastina very hard and townread titus to a lesser extent yesterday, and i believe that they're telling the truth that they're on our side. that being said, i think that their secret wincon is less "impossible" then they're implying, and they're working towards a gamestate where both wincons are plausible for them: i don't believe that otherwise, the moderator puts in two three-person third parties with a town wincon and gives one an implausible alternate wincon. i'm wary, but my goal right now is to eliminate actual scum, and i think april has a much higher chance of being actual scum than mastina titus and nero.

[TheGoldenParadox]

pagetop

[TheGoldenParadox]

@Taylor,

I am open to someone in my nulls/above nulls being scum. I'm presuming by you not including Math that you townread them? I have Math as above null because his play reminds me of Steven Universe. There he was outside the main townblock and he threw a similar fit, demanding to know everything we knew. We wound up lynching him for it, in an otherwise flawless victory. There's always the chance Math is scum panicking or whiteknighting April, but I doubt both of these possibilities. The first I doubt because of Math actually voting April. If Math were scum panicking throwing out anything that sticks, he doesn't vote a partner here. He definitely doesn't vote a partner whose only contributions have been pushing on the 3ps. April flipping scum would hinder his progress immensely. Thus, I highly doubt scum!Math votes scum!April here. That leaves Math whiteknighting April. This possibility I can't rule out, and its the one that scares me the most. In the uber rare event that April flips town, Math will become insufferable for the rest of the game. That's regardless of their alignment. It will also be nigh on impossible to tell Scum!Math from Town!Math, as both would spam the thread. I don't like the whiteknight angle because Math can naturally be scumread for voting their townread much more so than mastina can for having a wrong opinion. In short, I think it's probable this is angry Town!Math from Steven's Universe.

As for Bell, I struggle with him. Bell lead a wagon on SS after I complained about him not being visible on any wagons. Most of what he's posted today has been good. I'm just missing the Wow! factor from Bell that I usually get when he's town. Of course maybe that Wow factor is because I was scum in the last game we played together.

SS gets to stay above null for his posting today. It's been logically sound and accurate, but it prevents us from confirming town. It would have been better if SS highlighted this flaw earlier or just merely claimed he'd play outside of the results.

TGP stays there due to the lack of scumpings in his play. I don't get much in the way of town pings either, but he has a presence and it doesn't seem demotivated. So tonally, he's town. That's weak so above null.

@Morning Mage, I slept on it and discussed it with the hoods and realized you were likely town. The reason might offend you but here goes.
As town, you tend to tunnel hard on townies frequently, especially ones who have a zone of influence equal or stronger than your own. You had no influence alone day 1. So you saw two people linked at the hip and naturally scumread them. So basically, you were playing the role of misguided town.

i think EVERYONE is going to be incredibly annoyed/angry/suspicious, at the very least, if april flips town here because you are driving this elimination as if it's essentially a guarantee they flip scum
realistically, give me your thoughts here. is april flipping scum? how confident are you?

[TheGoldenParadox]

they didn't know it was disloyal

GDI that's NOT the issue. Lets' assume HYPOTHETICALLY that shelly is scum here. Let's assume that she did get a Cop shot. Now.. in that very situation she knows a) Her own alignment is NOT Town, b) that she did receive the Cop shot, and c) That you are NOT of the same alignment as she is.

This means that she knows she got a Cop shot from someone who IS NOT ALIGNED WITH HER, thus she KNOWS you are DISLOYAL.

You can TR shelly as much as you want based in PLAY, but when it vomes to MECHANICS she is NOT AT ALL CLEARED.

they didn't know it was disloyal

No they didn’t.

Imagine if Shelly is scum.

What is easier to guess?
“I got nothing”
Or
“I got fruit”

No one would expect the cop check.

It’s inherently easier to guess “got nothing” and hope it works out

If shelly is scum she did get the Cop shot. There's be no guessing involved there AT ALL. She would KNOW what she GOT.

okay i'm going to townbin a50 for being a fucking BASTION OF SANITY HERE

[TheGoldenParadox]

nero, do you have the town wincon

[TheGoldenParadox]

helping town to achieve their wincon.

this sounds veryyy much like you do not actually share our wincon would you like to elaborate

[TheGoldenParadox]

i'm SORRY superbowl but when the 3ps talk about town wincon like it's DIFFERENT from their wincons MAYBE it's a little hard to believe

this information disparity among players with apparently the same wincon is really really frustrating to me, and i have no idea who to believe. i would have sheeped mastina but now she's a third party apparently and i have a lot of distrust in this game for people who have that much information.

i'm disappointed in this setup. i have no idea who to vote for and who to believe, and the entire third party thing has so many lies and poor clarification and withholding of information in it that it's disappointing to me.

i'll stay on april because i want to trust you. if april flips town, i will be a thousand times more suspicious of both 3p groups.

[TheGoldenParadox]

thank you for the visual: i understood, but it made it more clear. your wincon is 100% town, while they have two wincons that they can pursue, one town-aligned, one self-aligned.

is their town wincon the same as yours, requiring one actual town player left alive, or is it different? does their "town" wincon have any extras or changes?

[TheGoldenParadox]

But what does that hint to you?? Anyone? I'll keep my answer to myself for the meantime and let you all respond first. I want to see who thinks what, please.

i'd think it means that they have some reliable way to figure out PRs and believe they can know the identity of another PR by tomorrow night.

[TheGoldenParadox]

But what does that hint to you?? Anyone? I'll keep my answer to myself for the meantime and let you all respond first. I want to see who thinks what, please.

i'd think it means that they have some reliable way to figure out PRs and believe they can know the identity of another PR by tomorrow night.

Yeah it’s shit like this I would want to wagon.

It seems “TMI”.

What this normally would be IMO is a struggling newbie scum team that doesn’t understand NAR.

what scumteam in this PL doesn't understand NAR? what?

[TheGoldenParadox]

math should absolutely completely definitely not be executed today
y'all should add math to your neighborhood

[TheGoldenParadox]

norwee is conf not army, but he's not conftown. don't confuse the two.

[TheGoldenParadox]

By the end of page Mathblade (erm.. I mean page 183) I find myself compelled to ask: Can I shoot Mathblade now?

i would really think it's +town here to neighborize math, not kill him.

[TheGoldenParadox]

i think shooting outside the confscum group isn't a great idea for today. i'm fairly equal on jjh/ddl scumreads and TRing pete more, but choosing to execute outside the group gives scum in that group more time to manipulate and/or use their prs if they have them. basically, 1+/3 is better than 4/12 and our collective, comparative reads on the three are likely to be better than our reads overall.

[TheGoldenParadox]

What reason do you have to believe the ungated ascetic claim??

Because,
1: ascetic is a passive role, not an activated role, therefore, is not a role that schadd_'s likely to tack on modifiers for,
2: ascetic is a bad role to put modifiers like x-shot on because with it as a passive action, handling how players target you is rather awkward,
3: ascetic is one of schadd_'s favorite roles to put into games as either alignment; schadd_ almost always has an ascetic in his games. Like, 80+% of schadd_ games have an ascetic in them. These ascetic roles are never gated.

So the ungated ascetic claim is 100% truthful; the only question is whether the role is town or scum and I believe both from play and setup spec that it's more likely to be a town role.

Didn’t you literally just say play is null?

did you READ her post?

[TheGoldenParadox]

In terms of contributions for however sparse they may be though?

Still town

[TheGoldenParadox]

Its amazing you guys are not focusing on the mechanical inconsistency that April detected motion from titus and madrina says he can't.

Instead you're just doing the small brained play on shoving me down. Like those tho are saying 3p is town and should never be executing are like communist apologists.

Math blade if you think that a clear contradiction is just a 'little thing' you're a truly awful player

For the record.

These are the posts of a playerslot that some people for some reason seem to be defending as being town.

When they're pretty blatant scumplaining to me.

i'm inclined to believe chemist's claim but i don't think it's particularly AI
and that's all i'm saying on the matter until shelly and taylor are so kind as to claim

[TheGoldenParadox]

oops sorry for quoting that wasn't intentional

[TheGoldenParadox]

Superbowl9: yes I believe that schadd designed a 23p large with 5scum that may not be able to kill and a bunch of town siding 3p that gives great power roles. What a joy that is and thus norwegian boy is innocent

Like, can anyone tell me how this is not a "scum complaining that they can't kill all of the players considered conftown" post?

Read this and find me an interpretation which isn't complaining that the game has too many conftowns.

Keep in mind that there's a minimum of 33% chance that DDL is literally mod-confirmed scum. A minimum of 50%, if you like me feel jjh is town.

yeah i'm inclined to agree here ddl's thing, especially "small brain" and the push on you screams either scum or really bad town

[TheGoldenParadox]

remember not to shoot until we've given someone the bp. norway or a50 or sb or all fine

have we not already secured a majority on norwee?

[TheGoldenParadox]

Superbowl9: yes I believe that schadd designed a 23p large with 5scum that may not be able to kill and a bunch of town siding 3p that gives great power roles. What a joy that is and thus norwegian boy is innocent

Like, can anyone tell me how this is not a "scum complaining that they can't kill all of the players considered conftown" post?

Read this and find me an interpretation which isn't complaining that the game has too many conftowns.

Keep in mind that there's a minimum of 33% chance that DDL is literally mod-confirmed scum. A minimum of 50%, if you like me feel jjh is town.

Can you not ruin the pressure on Chemist?

I want them to see my question,

Thanks!

i thought a50 had established that he's definitively shooting within (shelly, taylor, chemist) so i don't think talking about the mod-confirmed thing ruins your question

[TheGoldenParadox]

bell you have some of the weakest, most fence-sitty takes i've ever heard in my life

what do you think ddl is

[TheGoldenParadox]

Just execute all three of them. Problem solved.

i would prefer to do just ddl and pickaxe, but i actually would not hate this.

[TheGoldenParadox]

@S_S: You're our resident mechanical expert, and your experience is well needed.

With what? Chemist's claim?

The claim is very likely true and doesn't seem to lean strongly toward one alignment or the other.

hey i said this first give ME the setup spec towncred here

[TheGoldenParadox]

can you like make it bolded and really big and a pagetop like a normal person please

[TheGoldenParadox]

Lurker is pretty much autoscum for me. Especially with how many 3Ps exist

haven't we established as a site that activity level is a horrible way to judge alignment?

[TheGoldenParadox]

I think s_s would be more engaged with all the claims/ set up spec if town here.

what's to talk about? it's a schadd game, you can't setup spec it on day 2, or at all really.

S_S you don't seem to be hunting much

look if I'm given the opportunity to engage fully in a game through exclusively mechanics discussion, I'm taking it ninety-nine times out of a hundred.

I am not good at hunting (and I missed an entire day), but I am good at mechanics, and this game needs all the mechanics help it can get.

this progression from SS pings me quite hard and i don't like it at all. d2 he barely engages with setup spec discussion, then does an absolutely massive flip d3 despite not REALLY that much new information. then he uses that as an excuse to not have reads and not hunt. maybe i'm in the minority here, but SS is pinging me very, very hard.

[TheGoldenParadox]

Lurker is pretty much autoscum for me. Especially with how many 3Ps exist

haven't we established as a site that activity level is a horrible way to judge alignment?

Lurker in a theme = autodeath? That was the rules a year ago ish.

Did that change?

i haven't seen this ever, but i'm also far less experienced than you and have been away a similar time/longer, so i'm not sure?

[TheGoldenParadox]

I frankly don't think donatellos army is as big of a threat as the "conf town 3p crew"

shoot me. now.

[TheGoldenParadox]

^^that was hyperbole, a50 don't ACTUALLY shoot me

[TheGoldenParadox]

I think s_s would be more engaged with all the claims/ set up spec if town here.

what's to talk about? it's a schadd game, you can't setup spec it on day 2, or at all really.

S_S you don't seem to be hunting much

look if I'm given the opportunity to engage fully in a game through exclusively mechanics discussion, I'm taking it ninety-nine times out of a hundred.

I am not good at hunting (and I missed an entire day), but I am good at mechanics, and this game needs all the mechanics help it can get.

this progression from SS pings me quite hard and i don't like it at all. d2 he barely engages with setup spec discussion, then does an absolutely massive flip d3 despite not REALLY that much new information. then he uses that as an excuse to not have reads and not hunt. maybe i'm in the minority here, but SS is pinging me very, very hard.

quoting this bc only one person responded to this and i think it's kind of important

[TheGoldenParadox]

TGP has been scummy all round. imo, scum!them don't have their heart in it and it's rather obvious.

i love playing as scum. this is really bad attempted meta based off of two games, the scumgame out of the two being one where i died n1.

[TheGoldenParadox]

i'd call 5954 completely NAI, a "i give up, listen to my reads" post is both within shelly's scumrange and her townrange.

[TheGoldenParadox]

VOTE: pete

iirc i'm the only one of the 3 that hasn't claimed. should i do so now, or wait until tomorrow?

ngl it looks like this game is solved with 7 conftown, one of whom is 1-shot bulletproof. if i get vigged tonight, get taylor>shelly>bell>math>ss

[TheGoldenParadox]

Tayl0r are you gonna post or just quote my ingenious.

ive been shitposting hard for the past hour or so

i feel like everyone has been shitposting for pretty much the entire fucking game.

FTFY

[TheGoldenParadox]

UNVOTE:

yeah, gotchu.

[TheGoldenParadox]

iirc i'm the only one of the 3 that hasn't claimed. should i do so now, or wait until tomorrow?

All three of the names in the list should claim imo.

i'm a vt

[TheGoldenParadox]

[v]pete[/b]

[TheGoldenParadox]

VOTE: shellyc

well, shelly is scum!

looks like scum have finally begun killing the masons. too late.

[TheGoldenParadox]

like, this is literally 6 confirmed townies and 4 normal townies vs 3 scum, one of which is shelly. gg scum

[TheGoldenParadox]

VOTE: shellyc

well, shelly is scum!

looks like scum have finally begun killing the masons. too late.

She is?

at least one scum in {shelly, me, taylor}
at least one scum in {shelly, me, chemist}

unless taylor and misty are both scum, since i know i'm town, shelly is scum

[TheGoldenParadox]

six masons (of which mastina is dead) + norwee

[TheGoldenParadox]

if it is scum controlled, which i suspect, i think they did both shelly and me to be able to score, at the very least, a free mislim on me, considering mastina is the person who would have defended me hardest and so setting up a 1v1 with shelly would (usually) get me eliminated and give them another day

but shelly is scum, and it looks like we all recognize that

[TheGoldenParadox]

wait a fucking second.

other than DDL, the three people that mastina most scumread were {misty, taylor, shelly}

and look at the cop groups.

hot take - could ALL three be scum?

[TheGoldenParadox]

six conftowns
three scum (where one is almost definitely shelly, and if not shelly, BOTH misty and taylor)
and four townies

so it's 10:3, and we have three miseliminations until lylo, although that seems near-impossible to get to the way this game is going.

[TheGoldenParadox]

Not following.
Yes, they could all be scum tho. It says at least, which means one or more. If scum controlled I thought they might have been hiding in that stuff but then they added you and that kind of 1v1 isn't a good move when I'm prtty sure they need to be trading up not down.

no right, but the consideration that all three others are scum is one that i wouldn't believe at all if not for mastina's readslist.

[TheGoldenParadox]

VOTE: taylor

math, bell, this argument is ridiculous.
when you have 6 conftowns, 4 townies, and 3 scum, using what amounts to a loyal vig shot is pro-town because it either hits scum (taylor) or introduces the Double Day mechanic into the game. If taylor is town, she should suicide - if she's scum, she should not. it's that simple. since she is refusing to suicide, she must be scum.

[TheGoldenParadox]

i know i am town. i also know that if i could suicide without ending the day, i would because it would narrow the PoE. pretty clear cut.

[TheGoldenParadox]

Taylor probs still scum tho, just cause math.
And she hasn’t been a bastion of townieness this game.

Titus, town buddy town too you know.
But it doesn’t matter or rather this is conjecture that I’m entertaining with the thought that none of this will ultimately matter as long as you don’t make the mistake of mis-eliminating me.

VOTE: taylor

math, bell, this argument is ridiculous.
when you have 6 conftowns, 4 townies, and 3 scum, using what amounts to a loyal vig shot is pro-town because it either hits scum (taylor) or introduces the Double Day mechanic into the game. If taylor is town, she should suicide - if she's scum, she should not. it's that simple. since she is refusing to suicide, she must be scum.

It’s just so dumb and convoluted when what they really wanna say is “we think Taylor is scum and think we should eliminate them”

Which is fine. It’s just weird.

either way, taylor refusing to suicide makes her either gamethrowing town or scum.

y'all can recruit me tonight and i will suicide - if i do not, it will be tatamount to a scumclaim.

[TheGoldenParadox]

Ah crap.
Sorry.
I didn’t mean to insult you it just came out and I didn’t think to stop myself

I’m the idiot.

no, you're good we just disagree logic wise, no hard feelings

[TheGoldenParadox]

mastina was killed because she scumread misty/taylor/shelly and townread me. It's that simple.

[TheGoldenParadox]

like, there's no reasonable alternate explanation here from my pov. her reads were correct, so she was nked.

[TheGoldenParadox]

UNVOTE:

need to hear this from math

[TheGoldenParadox]

if it is scum controlled, which i suspect, i think they did both shelly and me to be able to score, at the very least, a free mislim on me, considering mastina is the person who would have defended me hardest and so setting up a 1v1 with shelly would (usually) get me eliminated and give them another day

but shelly is scum, and it looks like we all recognize that

Please tell me why it can't you, Math & Bell (please disregard you assumed knowledge of your own alignment)

my interactions with math and bell, especially my arguments with them today, haven't been very "partnery", so to speak,

you yourself believed any or all of {misty, taylor, shelly} to be scum

and finally, who was killed during the night? the conftown slot that had been near-locktowning me the entire game and who i was one of the most likely town players for after she remade her reads, and who was suspicious of the same group - {misty, taylor, shelly}.

i think my alignment in this game has been pretty clear. either shelly is scum, misty AND taylor are scum, or shelly plus one or both of them are scum. furthermore, both shelly and i have made it clear that we will suicide if we are recruited to the hood, so getting shelly (and, if you are STILL not confident in my alignment, me) through your neighborizing suicide shot allows you to figure out the rest. since i believe taylor is scum, neighboring/killing shelly and eliminating misty tomorrow is optimal play from my pov.

[TheGoldenParadox]

and finally, who was killed during the night? the conftown slot that had been near-locktowning me the entire game and who i was one of the most likely town players for after she remade her reads, and who was suspicious of the same group - {misty, taylor, shelly}.

Come ON! I've killed my biggest supporters as scum before, just to argue the same thing you're arguing now. Give me something I can buy.

no, you come ON!

really? you think scum!me kills MASTINA, who's supporting me, just to be able to argue that?? mastina defending me would be more valuable to me as scum than being able to argue this, and i think you know that.

[TheGoldenParadox]

VOTE: taylor

right, right. forgot that i unvoted.

[TheGoldenParadox]

who was neighborized?

[TheGoldenParadox]

lmao obviously

probably shouldn't have asked that, sorry

[TheGoldenParadox]

if chemist flips scum, i'm fairly confident in shelly!town.

[TheGoldenParadox]

so if misty flips scum, the last scum is almost definitely within {math, bell}. i'm inclined to lim math in that case, because a neut claim seems like a better elim than a vt claim.

[TheGoldenParadox]

I think we should terminate Chemist one way or the other, and if they are town we do Mathblade.

if misty is town, shouldn't you neighborize/force to suicide one of shelly and me and eliminate the other?

[TheGoldenParadox]

relax please

[TheGoldenParadox]

was that hammer?

[TheGoldenParadox]

gg!

[TheGoldenParadox]

don't really think that BH was mod confirmed town but I could see how Sam could have interpreted that and schaad shouldn't have called thier post good.

so i agreed with this but then i read this post from the mod thread

Subject: fucking mystery box of silver 10 (this is done)

i want to amend this to note it would be irresponsible if i thought i could guarantee i was being 100% NAI - i just don't think it's that big of a thing (hilariously people have been suggesting it makes ban hydras as well as samantha both town & maf in this game) plus, whatever wording it is that makes the game most hospitable to the players is more important to me than scraping together every ounce of game integrity. i would sell any of my games down the river to make the people playing them more comfortable

and i think i absolutely agree i think that the priorities in this case were right

[TheGoldenParadox]

ds i feel like you need to relax on attacking setups :/

[TheGoldenParadox]

pagetop

[TheGoldenParadox]

win con change? what?

[TheGoldenParadox]

I thought it was townsided, quelle surprise

I would have removed the masons and given scum 2 more members, and ditched the HPJS public cop thing in favour of a randomised IC on D2

unless you also remove the whole hpjs don't count for parity thing this would be like
ridiculously scumsided

[TheGoldenParadox]

I thought it was townsided, quelle surprise

I would have removed the masons and given scum 2 more members, and ditched the HPJS public cop thing in favour of a randomised IC on D2

unless you also remove the whole hpjs don't count for parity thing this would be like
ridiculously scumsided

Uhm what?

You’re saying the game as is was scum sided? When we had to cop ourselves and had one PR?
Against infinite cop, motion detect, mason hoods, 3 regular masons, mason granting tracker, and an odd night Vig? Wtf?

not at all
the setup was townsided but not ridiculously so
removing the masons and making it 3/7/11 would have been crazy scumsided

[TheGoldenParadox]

Oh yeah 7 3P v 11 town and 5 scum is ridiculously townsided.
But if “masons” are removed then it’s 18 town v 5 scum

Mena said to give scum two more members and remove the Interns.

That's 3 society, 7 Army, and 13 town. That's not remotely balanced.