Mini Normal 2160 | FIA Group B | Endgame

[the worst]

do i have to respond to 5340? i'm actually like /almost/ getting bored of roasting una

[the worst]

i think it was actually from me saying IV's associatives with zombie were hot garbage

@billy please keep posting.

[the worst]

And I'm also quite certain that Duckys spam and "courting" for liliths favor has been his plan all along.

that spam is like the hardest I've ever tryharded in the entire history of mafia and is like transparently beyond anything I've even pretended to be capable of as scum lol. again you have no rebuttal for it, this only makes sense if you enter with the assumption I'm scum

This is that game where scum!Ducky fooled you lilith, just hold on to that in all of your future games and I bet you get killed by scum!Ducky N1 a lot more.

and you think I'm AtEing? :p

Ducky says I'm scum, because my dayplay has been garbage.

on the contrary your dayplay has been quite good considering your wincon. it's just not towny.

What has his dayplay been then, in retrospect?
1 scum lynched, and it was based on S_S guiltying the slot.

aka. the entire town
are you trying to establish that I'm fallible? my god yes
you are not going to establish that I'm scum because I'm not scum here
who was there on the frontlines actually calling to sort these people and trying to engage with these slots before we miselim'd them? this duck

who was there pretending to have a tw/IV solve while literally ignoring wagons forming on his townreads (or in some cases literally lolhammering wagons on people who were outside of his solve)?

Other than that, without even checking, I'd argue that Ducky has been on every single mislynch (and probably I have been too), he has waffled on his reads all the way until LyLo, he voted "recklessly" (for uninformed town, mind you) in LyLo, he has been softing suspicions towards his buddy in IV all throughout the game without actually pushing for their lynch.

I mean I also had trajectory to voting you.....lol
I'm almost certain I noticed y'day that if mwnn was green you were necessarily scum

I've just spent like a few actual hours pouring through the thread to show everyone else what I saw that lead me to that decision and to explain what I can see in hindsight

Whatever he has said about my dayplay, could be said about his play in this game too.

almost the contrary: I've only been motivated by survival as long as I've been absolutely convinced that my elimination will lose town the game. It's been day four and day five that I've felt strongly compelled to survive. if you think I'm scum you seriously cannot tell me that I was setting myself up for deepwolf D1-3. :/ This is EOD as far as I'm concerned.

and like my issue with you is that you have no reads from d3 onwards. you have pushed nothing but singalled that you are trying to solve the game. the issue people have with me is that I have too many damn reads and can't commit to them and I keep resetting and making shitty exhausted reads on players who I should probably actually trying to be solving. yeah I've been on the miselims because I thought they were good ideas at the time. I talked through every one at a fair bit of length (excepting like, Nor who by dayplay wasn't really anyone's first preference if I'm brutally honest he was just a workable compromise who nobody really townread)

our dayplays are nearly polar opposite?

I have a feeling that too much weight is put on the fact that A) he has claimed VT instead of a PR (which doesn't make him town, it just means that he could be the scum!RB) B) he is more charismatic and likeable than I am.

nobody has even mentioned my vt status lmfao
I'm gonna ignore the second part because I think we live in a world where people are intelligent enough to see that I am explicitly not using my charisma for evil in this game.

you are very cute though and if you actually believed this I'd be sad.

[the worst]

Then the fact that Ducky used EVERYTHING he could possibly find in my ISO.

ye you've been scum for the entire game

For example the end of D2.
He made it look like I ddn't want to vote for Zombie, when in fact there were two VERY CLEAR reasons for why I wasn't on the wagon, and both can be found in that same ISO.
1) I unvoted Nep very begrudgingly because I felt like I got shafted by that mod-mistake. I was forced to out my role D2 because I thought it was going to be a 1for1 trade with scum.
2) I drove to the other half of Finland and I mentioned that as well. I simply wasn't around for much of D2 after that unvote, I'm not even sure if I prod-dodged much because the internet was so bad on the road.

That's fine, let's chalk that one up to bad timing. You weren't around to interact with a guilty on your scumbuddy so we have to read those associatives based on the fact you literally could not interact with him on d1. I'm fine with that.

How about the rest of your iso?

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I mean, I'm not stupid or blind.
We go Zombie-RP today then, and we all know what should happen tomorrow

if

and

when

.

he claims to have realised SS was a cop.
he was engaging with SS who was imploring him to vote zombie and leave nep for later.

Like, a simple excerpt from those walls of BS you threw at me, what is this even supposed to mean?
This is me literally telling S_S "I got it, you basically claim to have a guilty"..?
"We kill Zombie-RP today, and if/when Zombie flips green or Nep manages to pull up some other BS for D3, we should lynch S_S -> Nep."
I did not say that I immediately

knew

S_S was a town!Cop, but what other explanations were there?
He didn't budge

at all

when I screamed and shouted that Nep was lying.
Meaning that he had to have a

hard guilty

. (or theoretically was a scumster lying, which is why I inserted that if/when)

you aren't acknowledging why this is concerning - the fact that after the mod error is unveiled you UNVOTED NEP and talked to SS a fair bit without either voting Zombie, or voting any of your alleged scumreads.

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my wallpost quality is gonna drop sorry, I'm mobileposting until I eventually fall asleep.

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I'm not convinced that choice of words comes from SS who doesn't have a guilty just like. as turn of phrase? but irrespective: if he has further shots why would he double down on the "I'm not entertaining a world where you aren't scum die scum pew pew" thing.....like it's in his best interest to play it as coy as possible while still firmly insisting his elim goes through.

[the worst]

That doesn't make S_S scum outright, but I believe scum benefited more from what went down, and sometimes judging the actions by the results is the right way to go.

isn't.....this like..... directly shading ss?
I'm wondering if I'm overtired or if una is actually flailing so hard he's stopped making sense

[the worst]

that's a very wild way of saying "I disagree but I like your thought process",

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I don't get why you're so fixated on defending this like really specific part of your iso which is very minor when I've just spent literal hours explaining that your entire iso is indicative of a scum agenda. but like the way you're defending it is so semantic and doesn't......feel sincere either?

it's like you're scummy for 130 reasons and you're disagreeing with the weakest reason but because I spelled it wrong or something

[the worst]

The only other option might be just lynching MWNN - I really dislike their "willingness to be lynched" here.
That would also reveal the "IC" within N_M if that's actually a thing, meaning that I'd have a simple target for my last shot and you'd probably find ME dead tomorrow..but at least you'd have an IC!
...who doesn't...do anything... -_-

Ducky amd IV, is this what you're referring to with respect to his hammer while still scumreading you? Because I at least saw this benefit from flipping MWNN.

did you read my epic walls of bleeding heart because you're asking me a lot of things I spoke about in there

IV I'm not sure has talked about this at all? I'll check

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I'm a bit sad to hear that this is what MWNN feels..
And if this is AtE, Ducky was once more jumping off the lynch..

VOTE: MWNN - is this the hammer?

??? “BuDucky-IV” is your only read this game and you decided to compromise here with days left to go??

ah yeah he did I forgot

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@Duck, just read a post that made me think it through again, D1 you had locked Una town if Sirius's slot was town. Why did that change? Was the locking him town just an overstatement?

I haven't gotten through your epic walls yet. I'm at like 5201.

I like, very passionately cannot remember ever posting that. It took me like 3 days to have an actual lock read which I actually committed to in this game so it was probably a pretty throwaway comment

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you say that but I know you liked it

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I'm gonna assume I don't need to point out the flaw in that one

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it nothing else 5300 synopsising my walls (which you clearly aren't going to read) has more content in one post than your entire 3 phases of trying to posture a tw/iv team

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I'm gonna assume I don't need to point out the flaw in that one

Well go ahead then.

ok so like it's bullshit for exactly four reasons (is it actually four? I don't know but let's count and find out)

1) d4 is literally the only phase in this entire game where I felt like I was actually under threat of being eliminated. you've been stating that I'm scum consistently but not pushing me and in that phase people were actually having a dialogue about whether or not I was aligned with the mafia. so if you actually wanted me eliminated prior to endgame you have had so so many opportunities to actually try and develop your read and engage with your townreads about eliminating the big bad scum duck but frankly I'd argue d4 was the best one.

2) if you were considering your NK equity for even a second, why the fuck would you then lolhammer your townread, putting you + your scumteam solve of {tw, IV} into f5? like sorry not sorry if I was scum and I didn't have a roleblocker I'd just shoot Lilith n4 and manipulate NM for the win. He's a shitload easier to work around as scum than Lilith is. On what planet do you ever think scum will shoot you after lolhammering your townread the day before Xylo? Increasing NK equity is literally never a reason for lolhammering someone you are convinced will flip town.

3) we dedicated that phase to sorting mwnn in good faith. You continuously acknowledged that mwnn could be town, but never actually joined in the conversation about sorting his alignment. Then with time still on the clock, when you could have been putting your energy into any of the things you promised or pretended to want (sorting mwnn, sorting IV, eliminating me???) you just lolhammer mwnn. you like transparently handled d4 in bad faith and pretending that you lolhammered him so that you could save the day with night actions is bullshit.

4) if this was your grand masterplan and you figured if you were still alive you'd be able to go into f5 against the big bad duck and Lilith & billy would know for sure that one of us was scum: where is your explanation? it's taken you until now when you're pressed by someone who you're desperately trying to swing the vote of for you to actually out this. if it was a real sincere thought and you were taking the risk because you needed to come into xylo as town and take on the duck, where was any of your explanation before this point?

5) all this does is pivot dayplay back into attempted night action wifom. again.

what do you know, there were 5.

[the worst]

BTW, I looked back at eod yesterday, and he seemed a bit more waffley than youre suggesting here.

Look at his holistic reads for day four - he talks about sorting IV and mwnn in good faith. Then he never talks about either slot, but waffles for a while about how he thinks there's a deeper wolf or maybe his solve is wrong or something. Then he says that if mwnn is scum, NM is necessarily scum. But then he talks about mwnn being town. And then he never revisits what the correction in his solve is, if it's wrong. He waffles, yeah - but the actual reads he states on actual players in the game? Always tw/iv.

Like I get what you mean, he definitely waffles at eod4, but I frankly absolutely cannot believe that he was hand on heart confident on a tw/IV team since d4, then failed to reevaluate either mwnn or IV (which would have basically won the game if we were looking at town!una vs. scum!duck/iv) and decides to lolhammer mwnn instead. he waffles but it's not towny or solvey or actual thoughty waffling. It's just filling posts.

And most of either D2 or D3 he didn't have you in the solve. It seemed like a quick pivot then he heged a bit.

I reckon from my lengthy read it was d3 when he doubled down on the IV/tw team; I'm a bit fuzzy on timeline when working off the top of my head.

Honestly, the thing that jumped out at me when I went back through my iso was his like nonexistent progression on me. Twice. I started as town. Then inexplicably I went to one of his top two scumreads. Then later I was town on a "reread" and he expressly couldn't point to a moment where I town-told just that he didn't see an agenda from my posts.

If hes scum here, that's probably what I'm seeing more than any of this back and forth between the two of you.

you gotta get to my walls dude you're so close you'll love them
for real though I'm acutely aware of how shitty his read on you has been yeah

[the worst]

i yearn for the sweet release of death.

[the worst]

if it's any help, i'd probably lolvote IV and hope for the best, personally

ok honestly though:
una's read on billy had this weird trajectory of like kinda null into kinda scummy and he they had some really wild interactions on d1 where billy actually felt kinda perplexed that una was just shoving him into the corner. then una just townread him based on his spew when being run to l-1 and didn't talk about him for like 19823017203 phases. i kinda think billy's really silly push on you on d4 was so at odds with the gamestate / direction that scum were pushing the game that it's more likely to be town derp than scum-with-una.

una talks around IV in a similar way to how he talked around zombie on d1; he largely tries not to commit to a read on him. when he does it's kinda loosely town. they have kinda two dimensional interactions through the game but nothing particularly interesting. IV and zombapoc both like, fairly blatantly buddied me in their own wonderful cute special ways and given una has been running for a duck vs. umbreon endgame for like a long ass time, i think he has a lot to gain from a partner who buddies me who he can establish as scum with me. iv has also been like, generally fairly unconcerned about being positioned as "probably scum but we can deal with HIM LATER" for like the entire game and has just stayed cute.

basically my plan of attack if i get to f3 is to psyche myself up to reread the parts of d1 where una & billy interact, decide if i feel like billy is being genuine, and if so to murder iv

@billy this is about where I'm at with the partner.
ottomh I'd call his shitty progression on you, and your tendency to call him out for it, less partner indicative than the way he's distanced from iv and the fact IV doesn't seem particularly stressed by being in a solve which is kinda just never pushed. I think IV makes a lot more sense as buddying scum than you do as like..whatever you'd be doing as scum here (I'd guess like, trying to intentionally defiantly push a solve other than Una's so that it looks like you're unaware of the master plan?... which doesn't really feel like either of yours or Una's style).

There's a bit more legwork I'd do before I laid down my vote in f3 but there's my two cents worth

[the worst]

I hope I don't need to explain why I've townbinned Lilith but I'm down to give the summary

[the worst]

i haven't read through all of worstys walls but yeah down to elim una, not much more to be said, im more worried about f3 at this point

this is kind of garbage reaction sorry

I was just walking down my apartment block's carpark in the rain thinking "oh IV didn't react to any of my push on una except for saying he was down to vote for una and then tried to set up for f3" lol

I was gonna wait for his rxn to me offering to towncase you but I don't really think I need to atp

[the worst]

so when I was reading una's iso there were some stray mentions and weird rule of 3 things which made me pause and wonder if Lilith was actually scum and I was just being a big nerd but I kinda think she's just...... not

I'll break it into four brief points because I'm so very tired. joke about whether it will actually be four and counting together.

- sheer effort and solving and shit. as mhmsmith0 famously said, "sort by postcount, become good at werewolf". This isn't a damning clear but like the moment I look at a player who has been everpresent in pushing the good reads and the bad reads and reacting to things and asking the pointed questions and responding to the pointed questions, it's Lilith unquestioningly. She's exhibited the traits that the wiki articles tell you to look for in a town leader. The principal pauses I have in just blanket ruling this as a hard towntell are that like: she's been less on point during the harder gamestates (day three jumps to mind as an example) and I do think a lot of her questions to me came from a place of being utterly perplexed and trying to break through to me before I was ready to town the fuck up, rather than a place of trying to discern my alignment from the tiny breadcrumbs I'd left thru my iso. Still, when I look at the force she applied to D1 and the way she correctly intuited how to play D2 without forcing it and without realising SS was the cop I don't like, feel that it's valid to get caught up on the relatively small % of her iso which *isn't* as towny and which can be explained by frustration and confusion at least as easily as it can be explained by being scum with some indiscernible master plan. D4 was also very important for my read on Lilith but it basically warrants its own point.

- very recently: when rereading, una has some really bad associatives towards Lilith. Like worse than his associatives towards Billy by a decent margin. The "too dumb to travel thing" a am still comfortable writing off as a nai tonal communication breakdown (I haven't heard Una's voice but like the in-my-head-una-voice says that line so jovially). he really sloppily townbins her on D1 for similarly stiff reasons to how he townreads sausage. He has a lot of posts back & forth with her over the game but he's always like directly engaging her - he doesn't talk around their interactions the way he did with zombapoc and has been with IV. When he starts establishing a deepwolf in the core of {tw,Lilith,SS} he basically ignores SS and plays Lilith and I against each other. I can go find the post if needed but at one point he's like "if the duck is town it's making me feel like Lilith's posts aren't as solvey as I thought" and like....ngl I agreed in the heat of the moment because I felt frustrated by the amount of squeeze Lilith was putting on me but it's simultaneously really not partnery, and also a kinda peculiarly negligent read

- fucking day four. I'm still backing that scum would have really struggled in that gamestate: I still think that's the day when una cashed in his towncred and effectively made himself catchable. I have a lot of thoughts about how the scumteam may have conducted themselves in this phase but that's for later. Lilith was the only person who actually heard my suggestion out, gave me the time of day in reevaluating mwnn in good faith, and worked through the read. I don't know what mania led me to believe that mwnn was just high scum equity again but in the heat of that moment I felt like Lilith felt exactly the same thing. Her read trajectory on the mwnn slot in that phase was like, as-if-not-more believable than mine and if after distancing spectacularly her plan of attack was to placate me by pouring absurd amounts of effort into a phoney read on a slot which she's then just turn around and murder along with her scumbuddy (and then correctly distance from him on d5 and have him spectacularly flail while desperately trying to pocket her) I'm probably not gonna vote correctly in f3.

-- secondarily but equally important about d4: when billy and I voted Lilith her immediate reaction was so startled and confused that it hit the point of being emotional. This rings towny for a couple of reasons: firstly, Lilith is a player with a pretty broad set of skills but (from what I can see) also an honour system. I feel like it would be really easy for her to be disappointed by scum AtEing unnecessarily. I think scum!Lilith knows that her *play* is defensible and that she doesn't need to resort to faking emotions to derail the wagon. I think scum!Lilith is probably cluey enough / as is scum!una to take a step back and work out that at the very least, I've been hinting that my vote on her was fake. Her kneejerk reaction to it felt sincere enough that it made me want to drop the rxn test and I don't feel like it was engineered to look any more towny than it did sincere. (vs. e.g. playing along and seeing who went for a shitty CW knowing that she was never actually going to eat a lim there)

- SS' read on her is stuck in my mind like a popcorn kernel gets stuck in your teeth omg. I put a lot of respect into SS' reads and like I tend to reality check myself against him when I'm sitting here screaming into the void. He made a comment pretty late about how he was anxious Lilith was going to make endgame. But I think if he actually scumread her he would have been a lot more likely to like, do something about it? I agree that she's capable of being pretty dangerous as scum. But I do feel like we both separately made the decision to talk around the possibility of her being scum without advancing on actually pushing it or trying to satisfactorily solve her publicly. I feel like I'm not, when push comes to shove, super worried that she's actually scum. gth I feel like SS probably felt similarly.


I think like I could be fallible on any one of underestimating her scumrange, underestimating her ability to play off associatives with Una, overestimating the importance of the honour code/AtE thing, or just not correctly sheeping Mr. Smart. but I don't feel like I'm fallible on all four simultaneously and candidly I think Billy and IV make sense as scum quite a bit before Lilith does independently of the fact I townbinned her earlier in the phase.

[the worst]

pls don't acknowledge honour code thing midgame Lilith because it's kinda angleshooty meta and I'm worried it like might brush against trust tell territory

if I'm wrong I'm not like shocked or upset at all, just very very impressed

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holistically

I have thoughts about this but I'll let others talk first.

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always. originally I was like "hell yeah we should talk around the partner" then I realised that's for chumps and we should probably reach a loose consensus today

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actually doesn’t it imply that he knows the game isn’t over with una’s death, if he’s more worried about f3 than, you know, the LYLO that we’re currently in????

yes it does? what’s your point

if worsty is scum we lose anyway

could you quote or describe the point in my posts where you realised I'm town and una is scum and the world is saved

[the worst]

i actually thought 5372 felt kinda uninformed - i'm not sure if scum!billy who realises he needs to lolbus una turns that question back on IV and i given he was still a fair bit back in his solve
conversely if he hasn't realised he needs to lolbus una yet then i'm not really sure why scum!billy makes #5358 or #5382 when he's probably more likely waiting to see how una/tw shakes down

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I don't actually have a reaction to 5424. like i'm just like, meh

it's actually about how i would tier the smokiness of the guns; i think it makes sense from a perspective that was townreading una and then went "oh ah OH OK

OH

" and like....at a first glance, i actually think billy read my posts.

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billy can you give your thoughts on the mwnn hammer.

You referring to when Una hammered?

posts like this feel closer to seeking to understand what's going on, than to pushing an agenda.

compare for example to iv's opening:

I'm a bit sad to hear that this is what MWNN feels..
And if this is AtE, Ducky was once more jumping off the lynch..

VOTE: MWNN - is this the hammer?

??? “BuDucky-IV” is your only read this game and you decided to compromise here with days left to go??

yeah I think I still hate this hammer

can people give their opinions on it.

the hammer is like, contextually mind blowingly bad form but IV feels strangely feathersoft about pushing it?

billy can you give your thoughts on the mwnn hammer.

the only thing he fixates on is the hammer, when he tries to talk about something else this useless post falls out:

@lilith I know you're busy but you don't have to ~effort for now. If you could just give brief thoughts that would be helpful, if not no worries obviously RL is more important

and when i ask if he's ready to vote una he seems like...floored?

@lilith I know you're busy but you don't have to ~effort for now. If you could just give brief thoughts that would be helpful, if not no worries obviously RL is more important

what the hell is this post?
how close to voting Una are you, IV?

Um I'm not gonna vote right now...? What's your point

i think billy was slow to the una party but i *do* feel like he's seeking to understand and representing why he had incorrectly townread una. what the hell even is IV's read trajectory on una this phase? "una scumhammered, let's talk about the scumhammer, np tyt lilith, why would i vote una lol?, ah yeah worsty is town and una is scum"

[the worst]

that works for me - i also want to reread their interactions on d1 sometime when my batteries are a bit more recharged bc when i was reading una's iso his trajectory on billy felt super slimy but like, i'm a bit busy and worn out today

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I was floored because it felt like you were expecting me to like vote right then and there. What is wrong with me wanting the whole gamestates opinion and letting the day play out more...?

it was already demonstrated there was scum in me/una by the crossvote. did you consider me scum at any point this phase?

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it's not. i'm arguing that there was confirmed scum between me and una, and you were pushing una but were flabbergasted that i suggested you should vote there.

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regardless of how clueless he is, is IV always aware of the una/tw thing?

If we flip Ducky, and Ducky is town, then surely IV is town as well..right?
In that scenario, scum will likely kill me during the night and there's actually 2 scum within MWNN/N_M/lilith/Billy.
And in that case, I'd almost want to beg beforehand that town will not let IV be lynched no matter what.

In the scenario where Ducky just flips scum today, and IV doesn't wave the white flag during the night..kill it with fire.

just a reminder i want this post nailed to my coffin

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i have no words.

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my words, they are gone.

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where did my words go?
lilith, have you seen them?

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OSUKA
you monster
did

you

take my words?

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fuckin diabolical

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i would make a joke about shellyc replacing into scum!IV's slot, chaining 40 miselims and clutching the game but that's not a thing
let's just say whatever we need to say and readdress this postgame

@IV i hope you're ok

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TITUSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS <3

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now i really really wish i was scum with iv

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una and i are crossvoting, because it's like that sometimes.
i've scumcased una in a fair bit of length; aorn i think IV/you have really high partner equity. it could also be una/billy. lilith is generally really likely to be town.

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I'm gonna fight my urges to weigh in for a bit, billy/Titus need to be sorted and I kinda feel like an IC rn.

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The day will end in 6 days, 23 hours, 50 minutes.

We have like, some time. Nobody's hair is falling out yet. (Except Una's )

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I feel like I need to get a cup-and-ball so I can distract myself from spiteposting every time Una pops into the thread roleplaying town

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you are doing a great job of establishing that you have a broad scumrange. which adds credibility to you pulling off what you have as scum.
you're doing nothing to weaken my scumcase or prove that *i* am scum. :p

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i'm not laughing at you for calling me a mastermind.

your reasoning is that scum must have some supergenius 37,000iq gameplan and have noticed a significant number of obscure crumbs and must be absolutely snowing this game ERGO i must be scum despite that... not applying to me over anyone else in the list, not addressing my actual skillset as scum, and not actually attempting to address anything that has happened in this game.

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Awww I threw my ball into the air but I couldn't catch it in my cup. Let's try again.

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oh, that's a good tip thanks.

!!!!!
i got it that time!

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oh don't worry he's questioning me now *checks watch* two thousand posts later

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Did you get a chance to have a look at my summary on why Una is scum?

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tl;dr: like, yeah. unabombah is scum. obviously he's literally confirmed scum to me via lack of quickhammer but hopefully you can all see like a drawn-out expanded version of why i felt so comfortable lolvoting him at the start of this phase?

just like grabbing a few wild points on why his play is literal nonsense but if anyone is super bored and actually not sure who to vote i'd encourage them to have a super brief flick thru the last page (i think it gets better towards the bottom but i was actually really surprised how poor una's d1 was in hindsight).

• during day one, he had like reasonably likable posts, but very little read progression on a lot of slots. his reads on consensus players did have reasons for them, but the reasons were often ill at odds with the things those players were actually doing to be townread.
  
• during day one, and actually fairly consistently through the game, he has been suggesting that people may be scum but really struggling to actually vote them. this is indicative of a guilty conscience, and i think that particularly shines through when he talks about small PoEs with entirely-now-flipped players being scum, but still remains non-voting. this is indicated again by his inability to reflexively crossvote me going into day five.
  
• sometime during early d3 (or like, very late d2?), he settled on a tw/iv team and has struggled & ultimately failed to reevaluate like. literally any reads at a substantial level since then. this isn't someone trying to solve the game.
  
• his actual push on me is based on like the "3d chess super ninja ultimate laser beam eye scum god" type thing. he originally decided that i was scum because of some like, crumb that he intuited i would have seen or something? which i still don't understand? in the process he has not once stopped to consider that what he's suggesting is coming rom scum!duck is utterly inconsistent with my scum skillset, and actually consistent with the scum skillset of other players in the plist (cough @SS cough).
  
• he has continuously suggested that i am absolutely scum, yet has failed to actually follow through on his push. he has voted me exactly once, and tried to prompt a real-time engagement. when i joined in the engagement, he failed to engage in any way that would have meaningfully sorted my alignment and instead came out with the same pattern of perpetually scumreading me without actually trying to carry on with it.
  
• he talked around zombie apocalypse like, pretty damn consistently. he didn't really have a read on the slot. he's alleging having realised that SS got a guilty, but seemed very confused about the fact he needed to switch his vote from nepenthes to zombie on d2. in fact he actually unvoted for a chunk of d2 while the action was happening.
  
• a lot of his more 'gritty' posting in this game has actually been about mechanics and role interactions, and not about solving the game. the way he talks about and plays his role is focused on making himself appear towny, not on attempting to solve the setup. he misses (imo) fairly obvious prompts that he should be considering what his role means in the greater setup, if he's town.
  
• his mechanical play makes a tonne of sense coming from a scum rolestopper. trying to establish a pseudo-leashing on nepethes on day one is like. exactly literally massive ev points for a scum rolestopper.
  
• i'm not commenting back through his play today: he is spamming night action wifom and ignoring dayplay. that isn't town who's just been vindicated that their #1 scumread all along was right. that's scum who didn't realise how hard their miselim was going to fight back.
  
• SS' case on him contained a lot of evidence that una is a rolestopper. it contained some arguments suggseting that he's town but like, i'd argue reason#3 is just provably not valid (see: page 212) and the fourth is kinda just not really particularly helpful given he wasn't making a specific push because he was active lurking.

this one & the page beforehand. the last like ~30 posts in Una's iso responding to it are also pretty telling imi

[the worst]

The worst, I like most of it overall without having read the thread. The d2 thing is kinda meh. Same with the specific una is a rolestopper thing. If that wall is true, I don't mind voting Una.

Every word of it is what I've experienced in this game.
So you'd put the team at Una/Lilith > una/tw? I think I agree Billy is really, really unlikely to be the partner atp.

[the worst]

Una's read on him feels slimy in an opportunistic way. not a partnery way.

[the worst]

Not very well atm - likely probably tomorrow or maybe Sunday? if you ctrl+f "billy" in Una's iso and read a bit I think it's somewhat illustrative. there's kind of a few awkward non interactions and then una responding to billy biting at Una for clumsy read progression on himself. It doesn't like.. feel like distancing, for the most part? there are some parts which could be distancing I guess but if they are they're just not very convincing attempts at it. I guess I haven't really dived the Billy=>Una associatives either tbh, I probably need to do a joined iso read but I guess I was hoping to procrastinate on that unless I was alive in f3

[the worst]

Can you explain me as your top scumread particularly in light of the last post I quoted from you? Now maybe im misinterpreting that post when you agreed with S_S that you were liking me more, but between that and you seeming to understand where I was focused on people's interactions with my slot reminding you of your early townplay, im not seeing a progression from there to me as one of your top scumreads.

actually this is nowhere near as intense as I remember it being.

[the worst]

Spoiler: spoiled for large wall

VOTE: Una

I wanna know how I went from town to one of your top two scumreads without anything you felt a need to comment on. Its like my posts dropped out of your focus, but then I ended up as your top scumread with nep.

@Una what do the bottom two comments mean?

It felt like you were able to make towny-looking posts, and I came to realize that no matter which of you is scum, there's probably at least one here who's capable of fooling me/us/all of us.
So those two quotes are in reference, not only to you, but towards pretty much everyone on my null->scum range who have been able to have these good moments.

i think he's starting to think you might be town and getting anxious about a deeper wolf.

..or you could just say it simply like this.

Ok, do you have any reason to think I'm capable of being a deeper wolf?

Can you explain me as your top scumread particularly in light of the last post I quoted from you? Now maybe im misinterpreting that post when you agreed with S_S that you were liking me more, but between that and you seeming to understand where I was focused on people's interactions with my slot reminding you of your early townplay, im not seeing a progression from there to me as one of your top scumreads.

I honestly need to return to this at a later time, but most of my scumlean towards you was formed over a longer period of time.
It didn't feel like you were an easy target to push per se, but there were still multiple people scumreading some of your content.
And the way you formatted your posts and (possibly) censored your words gave me a feeling that you were purposefully trying to avoid AI-statements and hard stances.

I'll honestly need to use your ISO and even return to that back-and-forth between you and S_S to give you the answer that you deserve.
But I'm just not going to find the time and energy this game day.
Sorry.
All I can say is that I'm not going to vote for you D1 - unless I find the time and energy to do that ISO-return before that.

If you feel like im the type of player that censors my posts do I also quick vote before you answered my questions? Because that doesn't come from the same playstyle like ever.

And youre using these seemingly conflicting styles as both reasons that im scum when i dont get how that makes sense. Im either cautious scum, or I just voted you because I was building to it and didn't care that I left questions out without answers. That doesn't seem like it can come from the same scum mentality.

I voted you because I really wanted confirmation from someone else that I wasn't reading more into your words than was reasonable. If your argument for me being scum now is that im deepwolfing then I dont know how to respond because I so often get scumread early based on my playstyle (that hedging and fencesitting is probably a professional hazard btw im a lawyer so im literally forced to look at things from like 8000 angles) that there's no way I would go into a scumgame thinking that im gonna survive to the end as a townread. There's no way im surviving a LYLO as scum. So if you genuinely thought I was deepwolfing then I think thats the only way you have a progression on me that makes sense. So is that what it was?

VOTE: Pooky

I know this is a stretch but bear with me. Saudade was posting good, like real good, and way outside their normal style. But what if they saw this Playlist and decided to actually play? And yeah, that's not a case, but i feel like Pooky had a high shade ratio in their posts and they aren't backing it up with votes. Hell he literally told someone else to case me while he wasn't voting me. That feels scummy.

Also, given that the consensus poe is pretty tight and it has me in it and I know im town, one of these consensus townreads has to be wrong and at the minute my money is on the bear.

Wait, Billy notices this and they have a short interaction about it?
But they talk it away by walking right past the point?
Are they both just scum and Norwee slipped there??

That post came right after him doubling down on his nepenthes vote. Now I know Nepenthes uses female pronouns, so what looked like the obvious antecedent (the previous post where he doubles down on his nepenthes vote didn't have matching pronouns. Then I realized that Norweej has misgendered Nepenthes consistently though this game and based on his response to my vote and rereading those two posts, I realized that I probably made the mistake just on the basis of the pronoun.

I mean, i’d vote Billy over me.

But if he flips town

i’m probably going to need a good and long trip to the mental hospital for rehabilitation.

Such a Freudian slip..

?? how is this is a slip am I just dumb

Well, tbf, at this point I was more or less joking.
But the way I read that post, Norweg is saying that

"he would vote Billy over himself"

-> with the tone of

"as the last option other than me"

-> Norweg thinks Billy is town.
He then says, and notice here, starts with a

BUT

"if he flips town i’m probably going to need a good and long trip to the mental hospital for rehabilitation"

.
Meaning that those two sentences are connected, and together they make no sense.
I might've let it pass, but the their mutual reaction to that mistake just seems fake to me.
To me it's obvious that Norweg is only talking about Billy in that post.

Now, I normally hate it when people jump up every time there's even a sliver of a chance someone made a "slip".
Scumslip, townslip, whatever.
But this here seems more like the kind of slip that actually happens for scum - especially if they are both scum.
Norweg is tunneling very hard on the point that "Billy is so obv.town to me", but while writing this post their actual knowledge of Billys alignment pushes through for a moment, and they write "town" instead of "scum".
Because they are both scum, but they are trying very hard to force the narrative of town!Billy.

See i understand how literally everyone else would see it that way, but this interpretation only works if we're scum together, and I'm not scum, so if hes making that comment about me its just a stone cold lie, which is why i may be more apt to believe that he was talking about Nep.

Also, I read the "but" from his post as a sort of change. So he was voting Nep, then said he would vote me over himself but that he'd be in a mental institution if "he flipped town." This reasoning doesn't make a lick of sense as to why he wouldn't vote me which is why i reacted so strongly. It does however make alot of sense if hes got nepenthes as locked scum. He'd be very hesitant to move the vote.

So I apready said im the elim today. And then everyone will see why this alleged slip doesn't work, because when I flip town, his alleged slip isn't a slip.

I'm a rolestopper, and targeted Nep last night.
So there's that.
I have modifiers that I'm not going to out yet so that scum can't abuse it, but I've said enough for reasonable people to see where I'm coming from.

The only way Nep could've been roleblocked, is if I was roleblocked first, and then they were roleblocked separately.
So nope.

This is like really strong reasoning and literally the only way that Una could know Nep wasn't roleblocked.

Are we entitled to know the order of operations as far as resolving conflicts in roles mod? Because if so id like to kmow it. E.g. it seems hard for me to believe that roleblock would ever resolve before rolestop or else it weakens the rolestop and if that is true, then we know Nep is lying because Una can't be blocked at that point.

And if rolestop resolved before roleblock then there has to be at least 1 scum in Nep/Una. I mean its already pretty unlikely that there's 0 given that ut means either a jailkeep situation or 2 scum roleblockers.

development into the vote after he finished his catchup was good though. I agree with his read and given his back & forth with Una I feel like billy actually wanted an answer / una actually wanted to squirm out of the engagement? it's not a smoking gun but it's more clearing than una/IV associatives and I'm not really interested in considering una/lilith

I need to check if there was another post from una after 2354 before he switched his vote to Pooky I guess but I feel like this had a fairly non stilted "get annoyed, ask questions, get answer, query answer, get clairty, move on" progression which is consistent with Billy's playstyle. he's like, a fairly analytical detail oriented player without being as prolific or experienced as e.g. you. I've pocketed him by throwing down a shitty but detailed scumcase on him before. I think his town style is very fallible to the type of response Una threw back to him.

His switch to Pooky felt believable. I'll go check whether it was opportunistic or whimsical in a broader context at some point.

Una's billy/nor slip thing on D1 is pretty sketch in hindsight and I think it's kind of not a scum mindset to double down on being the day's elimination when ottomh I don't really think he was being bussed? "Let me die on my scum cross so you can see your read style is bullshit" just feels like a whack stance to take to a scum partner calling you scum with a townie who is set to be eliminated but like, I guess Billy is smart and this could be a high level manipulation. this one I feel less confident on.

He's also hook, line, sinker on the rolestopper interaction and there isn't an air of like. doubt. at all. I feel like being scum who knows Nep is either lying or there's a mod error forces a mindset where you're a lot more stilted about the situation - I can actually buy that Billy believes that Una is the good guy in this situation. It doesn't feel lazily clearing, it feels earnest

[the worst]

I'm ready.

[the worst]

nice work Lilith, I didn't think they'd fall for it

[the worst]

sigh I can't even troll. it's just become too obvious una is scum.
GL with f3 if I die. you all know what I'd do.

[the worst]

the worst (0)
Titus (0)
Billy Pilgrim (0)
UnaBombaH (0)

ah well, parity, gg scum

i'mma let you guys crossvote so i can lolhammer and win the game

[the worst]

on a more serious note: @scum i can't BELIEVE you shot lilith over me i am SO upset.

[the worst]

MWNN
SHELLY
NORWEE
NEPPY
POOKY
SMARTY
LIL..LITHY?

I WILL AVENGE YOU /o/

[the worst]

i guess i'm probably reading this mess over the course of the next few days

if you're scum and wanna save me the effort please let me know, i'll forgive your prior transgressions.

<3

[the worst]

what's left to sort? lol

[the worst]

I have to sort between duck and Titus? So I assume Titus is voting for duck here or was that just bullshit?

And I'm sorry what the hell is this slimy posting?
Your job is to sort the scums - why do you give a toss where Titus intends to vote?

[the worst]

you're damn right

[the worst]

It's just us three now. Let the squishy feels pour forth.

Titus, do you think I am ever scum with Una after d5?

[the worst]

i probably will reread & case whoever i end up voting but i will probably not VCA before then. your reads are developing pretty slowly titus.

[the worst]

it's not a threat; it's an observation. "you could have bussed una, he rolled over" is a very lacking read. what are you like, assuming the point of me spending like several hours burying the absolute hell out of una when he had tried to set me up for an elim for the entire game and could have just bussed me into the sunset as a power role?

what do you make of the fact i've been literally sitting on this thread solving constantly not just for the entirety of day five but also like, several phases beforehand?

like "maybe you could be scum with una, he rolled over" is a speck of a paranoid footnote next to how bleeding obvtown i've been this game. i'm startled that you don't have anything to add except that you won't be reviewing your reads until there's new data? we're in f3, what new data is even going to come to light until someone throws down a vote?

[the worst]

You think Billy is town for a static wagon on day one. Sure, fine. That's a valid reason to lean town on someone on a sheer VCA basis. From your perspective his wagon peak you quoted is all town:

Billy Pilgrim (4, E-3) - LavarManos, lilith2013, innocentvillager, NorwegianboyEE

What am I meant to be critiquing?

[the worst]

I don't pretend to know what scum are doing at all times; I am just here to kill them.

[the worst]

NorwegianboyEE

(4, E-3) -

lilith2013

,

the worst

,

Nepenthes

,

TheFourEyedDude

Billy Pilgrim

(3) -

Waterdispenser

,

NorwegianboyEE

,

Zombie Apocalypse

Waterdispenser

(2) -

innocentvillager

,

Not_Mafia

UnaBombaH

(1) -

Billy Pilgrim

Nepenthes

(0)

Not_Mafia

(0)

TheFourEyedDude

(0)

Something_Smart

(0)

innocentvillager

(0)

Zombie Apocalypse

(0)

the worst

(0)

PookyTheMagicalBear

(0)

lilith2013

(0)

Not Voting (3) -

UnaBombaH

,

PookyTheMagicalBear

,

Something_Smart

let's do the exercise:
if you're town and i am town, then una is unvoting while billy vanity wagons his scumbuddy una. zombie takes the opportunistic vote slot on his scumbuddy billy. i don't think this scumteam is like, experienced or badass enough to go for a two-way-bus while una is basically in the corner frozen.

if you're scum and i am town, then you and NM are pushing waterdispensor while zombie pushes a miselim on billy pilgrim and una is frozen. this is a fairly neutral agenda.

if you're town and billy is town (which is incorrect): we have two lead wagons with one scum on them each, and una is offwagon frozen rather than establishing a third wagon or falsifying associatives because . . . a scumteam of tw/una/elements is bad at scum and isn't excited to ruin everyone's day?

like the only universe where i'm scum with una is for symmetry on this vote count, and "symmetry on one d1 votecount ergo scumteam" is a read that is *firmly* beneath your towngame.

[the worst]

you know what

[the worst]

rereading d1 una's trajectory on billy is pretty shit but it's not overstated. it doesn't feel like he's having shitty reads intentionally.

the way billy reacts doesn't feel like distance; they don't get heated at each other. una feels like he squirms out of the exchange. no votes fly. rather than ramming heads and trying to look like there's NO WAY they'd be aligned billy is asking for other people's thoughts on una's shitty read on him and like...actually drawing attention to the narrative

lack of votes & lack of noise makes me think this isn't a bus mindset, attention being brought to a shitty interaction with your scum buddy is usually a bus mindset
=> if billy and una are scum on d1 their interactions are like, extremely clever and don't have guilt associated

let me get to the eventual deescalation before i go further brb hold on wait for me

[the worst]

Since with a hard pr claim I'm not drawing the night lol with my heavy cringing, I'll just out myself.

Informed townie N_M, and previously Lavar, is town. That's my usefulness. Elim me to make N_M IC, I guess.

Ok this actually makes my biggest concern about you go away.

UNVOTE:

hnerejjehfjejfnnmrmmrmmmrmmmmmm
VOTE: nor

Hey ducky, you read una's post the same way that I did. Do you buy that his progression on me is real? Because shortly after that I dropped to one of his top two scumreads. Now Norweej also had some strange progressions wrt my slot so im comfortable voting there, but I'm a bit scared of una at the moment.

gotcha, could you talk through what has like impressed you/disinterested you/whatever from una

Ducky I know my catchup got broken up but what about Una's progression on my slot. You seem to be pushing town!una hard and I had that early, but his flip on my slot didn't seem to be influenced by anything.

VOTE: Una

I wanna know how I went from town to one of your top two scumreads without anything you felt a need to comment on. Its like my posts dropped out of your focus, but then I ended up as your top scumread with nep.

this curiosity-style trajectory is good

[the worst]

also not like, actually waiting for me to come back and being like "aw ye vote una let's roast him", which makes me think it's not a pocketing mindset

[the worst]

@Una what do the bottom two comments mean?

It felt like you were able to make towny-looking posts, and I came to realize that no matter which of you is scum, there's probably at least one here who's capable of fooling me/us/all of us.
So those two quotes are in reference, not only to you, but towards pretty much everyone on my null->scum range who have been able to have these good moments.

i think he's starting to think you might be town and getting anxious about a deeper wolf.

..or you could just say it simply like this.

Can you explain me as your top scumread particularly in light of the last post I quoted from you? Now maybe im misinterpreting that post when you agreed with S_S that you were liking me more, but between that and you seeming to understand where I was focused on people's interactions with my slot reminding you of your early townplay, im not seeing a progression from there to me as one of your top scumreads.

I honestly need to return to this at a later time, but most of my scumlean towards you was formed over a longer period of time.
It didn't feel like you were an easy target to push per se, but there were still multiple people scumreading some of your content.
And the way you formatted your posts and (possibly) censored your words gave me a feeling that you were purposefully trying to avoid AI-statements and hard stances.

I'll honestly need to use your ISO and even return to that back-and-forth between you and S_S to give you the answer that you deserve.
But I'm just not going to find the time and energy this game day.
Sorry.
All I can say is that I'm not going to vote for you D1 - unless I find the time and energy to do that ISO-return before that.

you know what
VOTE: Titus
gonna go find that "nail to my coffin" quote for like a tenth (fourth?) time as well because i think i wager the game on scum /not/ having associatives this abstract

[the worst]

i also think lilith's ghost just throw a ghost-brick at me, and like
for sure i understand where you're coming from with being unsure about sorting billy
but i think his uncertainty wrt reading some players (incl. you) comes from a returning-town mindset as easily as it comes from a scum mindset.

you guys have had a kind of ~simmering~ dialogue for the entire game which has never been unnecessarily blown out of proportion, but i don't feel like it's ever been dropped? i know from experience i'm happy to stand toe to toe while we scream at each other regardless of my alignment but i strongly associate billy with a stronger towngame. he doesn't tend to carry like a large amount of 'guilty conscience', i just think he doesn't have the experience/toolbox to make shit up on the fly.

his push on you d4 was like... a glorious misread of the room and was literally never on scum but i also think scum!billy is more likely to be more self aware and stop himself from that?

[the worst]

If we flip Ducky, and Ducky is town, then surely IV is town as well..right?

frame this and nail it to my coffin.

this is like probably the slimiest thing in Una's ISO and the way he acts so uncertain/coy while clearly trying to use my read to qualify the clear is either
1) a really clever super epic slimy read on town done in the hopes that literally i would fuck this vote up in the event he didn't survive the day (this was before i obvtowned hello)
2) a mildly-clever but definitely-lazy read on a scumbuddy in the hopes that he could kick the can down the road if he was elim'd and i flipped green

i definitely think my hard reevaluation of iv following vote-guiltying una was a dramatic toneshift from the way my reads were developing at this point.

[the worst]

these posts are like, illustrative of what i see reading IV's ISO ctrl+f una (i'm a bit burned out and there's like a 0% chance i'm going to do that 1300 post read i wanted to do for a quarter of a second, lol)
there's a pattern here in that IV really struggles to talk about una unless:
- it's ro2'd/ro3'd (i.e. he is talking to or about una + someone else)
- it's directly mechanical (which plays into the way una wants to be townread this phase), no offense but iv doesn't have a *great* mechgame and in retrospect the fact that he immediately correctly intuited what una wanted people to intuit about his claims probably should have been ringing more alarm bells like, yday

I think I’m at

{innocentvillager}
{NM}
{Pooky, Lilith}
{Four, Nep}
{worsty, Una}
{Norway, Sirius, BP, Zombie, SS}

I am townreading you and una just not to degree that I am townreading everyone else

The bottom are nully and I intend to investigate those slots more later

Gut thoughts on SS are.. well none really? I don’t really notice them much which as I’ve said makes me maybe lean scum

una has long walls that I never really bothered to read and other people are townreading them

i think we're in a good spot right now, 100 pages is a lot but I do think there's enough to say at least two scum are in {Zombie, Billy, Norway, Water}

when almost everyone mostly agrees that's a good sign

if anyone else is scum my bets are on Una and worsty

I'm trying to be less paranoid because it just cost me a game, sometimes the scumteam is just... that

It's verryyyy interesting that certain people (like Billy, Una) are bringing this up and agreeing with it, makes me think that if either of them flip scum then the rest of the team is likely in this pool

like okay if I was in the PoE I doubt my first reaction is to go "OMG town got it wrong, ahhh deepwolfs, we should push there instead" town's probably just right on like 2/3 in the pool

pedit: lilith i mean the scumteam most likely isn't completely in those 4 just from sheer probability (maybe it is that would be sick)? but add in like una and worsty and now I'd be really surprised if the game's still going

@worst and una another question here: I don’t really follow the PR/setup spec stuff in gneeral for closed games, but I’m interested in your thoughts on each other’s suggestions/if there is anything AI or scum/town!motivated in particular

I now think norwee is more likely town purelly because of the change of the profile pic

lol I do feel this

is it weird that this is so weird yet agreeable that I’m giving this townpoints

Pedit: yeah I assume sausage and una slots are the ones you want to revisit?

I guess una is town too

VOTE: zombie

why?

yup Nep is town ez

why?

I guess una is town too

why>

you really think scum!Nep faked her blocked report, mod saw it went oh fuck, locked the game, and Nep got a new result?

and you think scum!una outs like that to directly cc town!Nep for no reason?? Unless you think they’re scum together but that doesn’t make sense either

so the error was una rolestopped Nep and mod interpreted it as a roleblock and gave Nep no result? I assume that’s what happened? Idk if speculating this is anti rules buttttttt it’s there

{NM}
{Lilith, Nep, SS, Una}
{four}
{bp, worsty, water}
{plus}

i feel like una is probably town having not understood most of the setup stuff? I’d have to reread it a bit, but I think I will get suspicious if the slot is still here tomorrow, and definitely if it’s still here D5

so I guess it’s froppy + four/worsty/Una/Lilith/SS in that order? which like kind of feels wrong that four is my top because idk if four+froppy play this way

[the worst]

hit submit by mistake - the later parts of his reads on una are basically "townbin for mech reasons, don't reevaluate, don't engage"
from the start of his iso until like circa post 4000 iv still has not at any point reacted to una shitpushing a tw/iv team

[the worst]

I'm a bit sad to hear that this is what MWNN feels..
And if this is AtE, Ducky was once more jumping off the lynch..

VOTE: MWNN - is this the hammer?

??? “BuDucky-IV” is your only read this game and you decided to compromise here with days left to go??

andddddddddd his first acknowledgement of it is in twilight before f5

[the worst]

if you're scum billy, gg

if you're town sorry i did this to you after all

[the worst]

AND HE DOES IT AGAAAAIIIINNNNNNNN

[the worst]

if you're scum billy, gg

if you're town sorry i did this to you after all

Did what to me?

Jesus Christ this is my fucking nightmare scenario.
I have to sort between duck and Titus? So I assume Titus is voting for duck here or was that just bullshit?

^^^ I was apologising for doing this to you

[the worst]

There's like three ways this day goes down:
Titus & I crossvote, you're the decisionmaker (which you just expressed anxiety about)
you & Titus crossvote, I'm the decisionmaker (which ngl is basically just what I assumed would happen)
you & I crossvote, Titus is the decisionmaker (scum win)

[the worst]

I'm biting back retorts and posting entirely to clarify: you're the decision maker *because* I threw down the first vote on Titus. So that's why I'm sorry for putting you in this position.

I still don't think it's like a super difficult one to get right but being the hammerer in f3 is unenviable.

Let me know if you want anything from me (I'm probably not doing any more diving though)

[the worst]

actually on reflection, granted scum!me probably needed to double down on Titus anyway. but. *gestures wildly at day five solve*

we should both feel bad for putting you in this position.

[the worst]

can vouch, that's not AI for Titus.

[the worst]

VCA is fine, but it isn't going to pick up on a couple of fairly incorporeal facts: I had fairly bad reads at the start of the game, and scum played well. You can hammer people because the vca tells you to all day every day, and only ever win games based on how chaotic and deceptive the whims of the scumteam have been. As soon as you have a team who have played well and intentionally chaotically, VCA is rife with fallibility *because* it's a logical process applied to a game where scum thrive by forming reasonable-but-incorrect narratives.

VCA is usually going to be shitty in games like this because Zombie was guiltied pretty early after fairly minimal contributions, and Una just like literally did not vote for like half of the game at least. And hey, in a game where scum don't use their votes to advance their wincon, it's a lot easier to create a narrative in which town are scum for using their votes to push bad reads.

None of this changes the fact that my read trajectory and solving has been blatantly transparent, and that I've been bleeding my heart all over this thread for like the second half of this game at a minimum. I'm fine at scum but I'm not dynamite at scum. I don't think I'm capable of this kind of level of engagement, and I don't think anyone sans the best scum players are liable to let their partner establish a very long-term bus on them, and then turn f5 into epic glorious wallposts of crossbussing when there is an easy miselim in the IV slot who literally everyone wants dead.

You've seen this, and I've documented it well - I don't win f3s as scum. VCA is going to fail to solve this game. Please consider who has been setting up the gamestate for a scum win. IV's handling of Una's shitpush and looooong history of attempts to pocket me should be profoundly telling.

[the worst]

especially given like - una and I have chemistry - we would have been working on that f5 state for a LONG time if we were scum together, and believe me we would have been yelling until the "stfu IV is scum let's just kill him". like me yeeting a vote onto una there would be brutally counterproductive unless my explicit purpose was to drag the game into f3 to ruin billy's week.

[the worst]

I'll pipe back down. I'm trying not to post as much because I don't think I'm helping but like ┐(´д`)┌

[the worst]

I'm not gonna scream "I never XYZ as scum" because trust tells are foul but to respond in the best faith possible while self metaing:

- I agree scum!me would be comfortable enough in this f3
- please note for the record that my scum performance is fairly good but my endgame scum performance is really lacklustre. That f5 was outside of my scumrange, and I do think it's incredibly unlikely for me to try and win solo in f3 rather than win duo with Una in f5 after some like, prodigally good theatre.
- I disagree that scum!me would try to win in this f3 rather than just play his cards in f5.


other solution: IV tried to pocket me, it worked for a fair while. he didn't really bat an eyelid while una postured a tw/IV scumteam. he didn't evaluate his read on una in good faith for the entire game. he evaluated very few reads in meaningful detail. he didn't react to how scummy una was in f5 and despite having town!tw/scum!una for the entire game and there being confscum within us, he didn't register that he needed to vote una in f5.

[the worst]

Honestly at this point, if billy is scum here, well fucking played.

edited - i could have said this verbatim when i voted titus.

[the worst]

on the contrary. analysis of votes can either catch scum, or be woven into a narrative, *much* more easily than hard feelings and lengthy cases based on scum-indicative-mindsets and partnered associatives can.

the truth needs as much passion and reinforcement as it can get.

[the worst]

Everything. The worst is blatantly scum by the VCA, so what does he do...makes a big wall discounting VCA.

I am scum via the narrative you have created, and are enforcing exclusively via prejudiced VCA... and I made a footnote politely explaining why VCA is invalid. My walls have been constant alignment-solving. I am not pushing a discrediting agenda here, I am rebutting.

The worst is scum with Una, who would likely die anyway. So he makes a big, flashy wall bussing as a white flag gambit.

Una was absolutely NOT caught until (arguably) his misplay on day 4, or (unambiguously) i yeeted him into the void on day 5.

He claims his reads were just wrong until Una. He just wasn't bussing until Una.

Posturing.

The truth doesn't need to be as long winded and melodramatic. It just is.

As are fabricated versions of reality - such is the nature of our silly wonderful hobby.

If you can't see that's what the worst is doing, then I don't know what to say.

I wish the feeling was mutual, but I can and have explained the agenda you're attempting to push in the face of a correct solve.

[the worst]

Her fingers are crossed! That means she's lying!

[the worst]

alright osuka gimme that win

[the worst]

alright osuka gimme that win

along with all my town buddies! <3 well done billy.

well played Titus!

[the worst]

would you believe osuka is too busy watching tv shows to respond to my discord pokes.....

[the worst]

and he calls ME a fiend..............

[the worst]

i was town, lol, don't worry.

[the worst]

i was town, lol, don't worry.

(but that's what they all say.......)

[the worst]

sorry for that weird part of the game where i started dipping into like a pre-AtE state and stuff, i'm not particularly proud of that.

i think (hope) i redeemed it by the end of the game. this was a rollercoaster. gg everyone, it was a pleasure.

@una & titus, really well played the last couple of phases. i think there were a few points where it would've been pretty tough to psyche yourselves up to keep fighting, and both of you did admirably.

[the worst]

How rude of una to let me die
F tw tho I bet he misses me NOW

words cannot describe how true this is.

here if it wasn't hammer this is. The day needs to be over.

VOTE: Shelly

Hope you're scum.

comedy aside this is a mood

Don't worry, we all know you don't do comedy.

I, for one, have never laughed about a single one of your posts. They are devoid of any humor.

I feel bad because I said that on your birthday.

You're also old.

Oh god this made me wheeze.
ManWithNoName i love ya dude.

+1, objectively good posting

Iv into worst into una like I suggested the start of this day would have been good. Then worst and IV had to defend each other

i think if you were on this account from the start or our chemistry struck a bit better on f4, we probably could have done this the easy way, yeah. sorry for the bad read.

Noo ducky don't be mean

sorry D:

Yea, Ducky put in the effort at a time I wasn't willing/able to do it myself.
That turned it around - nothing more to it imo.
Well played BuDucky.

I feel like I got unnecessarily annoyed at first about Billy/Lilith flipping to his side, but after that it was all just for show.

ilu.

How can you avenge someone you personally voted out :c

gloriously, duh

I can definitely see a world where everything went down pretty much exactly the same way as it did here, but I'm town and Ducky is scum.

same here actually - except d1 probably had more una presence at rand (i do think you dipped out a bit when your team was in a good spot, which is pretty intuitive for scum)

Got to say that I'm actually decently satisfied with my play up until the last day.
Ducky pulled a lot of weight there and totally turned the game on it's head.
I'd also argue that he got sort of "lucky" (or one could argue that he made a bold enough move) by voting me there and forcing the cross-vote.
That then "proved" that he was correct in his read on me, which resulted in the heavy casing that followed.
I do not think he would've made such a focused effort if there was even a slight chance that I wasn't a part of the scum team after all.

i was terrified this reality was going to unfold until like, half way through d5 when lilith realised you were scum

[the worst]

to be fair, establishing yourself as a deepwolf was a great idea when you had a reasonably strong team and a surface-level-towny role and have a strong scumgame. it's just a huge shame it happened at the expense of zombapoc.

nth enthusiastically, titus is amazing.

[the worst]

You came around to the right decision, and made your alignment clear in the earlygame - can't overstate how much that helped our wincon.

[the worst]

if you did, i liked this one.

[the worst]

if you did, i liked this one.

Suck up.

you know me~