Open 91 - Trendy and Subversive C9 - Over, before 656

[raider8169]

/confirm

Sorry Im late, I had a family emergency that I just returned from.

[raider8169]

Vote BlakAdder

Hiding behind the dice never sits well with me.

[raider8169]

Woops, thanks, Armlx. So that's officially

unvote, vote:Apothecary

As this is the first unvote and revote. Do you really want him lynched?

[raider8169]

Indeed, Apothecary, do you want to share your random vote with us?

As he hasnt posted yet I dont think you will get much of an answer. Of course the best way to change that is to vote him up to L-1 and make him claim...

Maybe not

[raider8169]

I like the top of the page vote counts. They are always easy to find.

[raider8169]

I like it when mod modifies the top post of each page to reflect the votes as of the first post of that page. It just makes it easy to find is all.

[raider8169]

If I have to vote, it'd probably be...

vote :raider8169

Well you didnt have to vote but it is fun.

Any reason why as you are joining the game a little late?

[raider8169]

Well you didnt have to vote but it is fun.

Actually, he did. Its still sorta the random phase.

Raider, why did you feel that BA's unvote + revote was necessary to attack?

I dont think a random vote is a must just something to help get the game going. I was just wondering if there was a reason behind it so I could get the game moving as well.

Same thing as to why I questioned BA and I assume its why you are questioning me.

[raider8169]

But asking for reasons behind actions without them just looks like you are setting up for a mislynch.

How am I setting up for a mislynch? Questioning someones motive for something is never a bad thing.

[raider8169]

How am I setting up for a mislynch? Questioning someones motive for something is never a bad thing.

But early game votes like that obviously don't have reason (until they put someone at 3 votes usually), so asking a question you already know the answer to.....

I don't believe this makes you scummy in itself, I'm mainly interested in your responses to my questions in that regard.

I see, I think of it as something different though. If someone unvotes the random vote just to vote another person there has to be some reason for it. This early it doesnt have to mean the purpose of the vote was to lynch but that is why the revote stood out to me. I consider that to be the first real vote of the game.

[raider8169]

Unvote, Vote Natirasha

Reason being is that that only 2 posts one of which was a self vote and the other was a bump.

[raider8169]

But I've read that he always votes herself at the beginning. It's his tradition. And I haven't posted nothing useful as well.

Not sure how starting the game off with a self vote works but to each his own. Either way there is no better place for it at the time and we have 2 others with 2 votes so its not any worry of a quick lynch.

[raider8169]

Not sure how starting the game off with a self vote works but to each his own.

Sometimes, esp. in large games, it can bait a wagon, which is good.

I guess, I dont see self votes as good but I am thainking more towards later in the game.

[raider8169]

Bulvox, is there a better place for his vote then on you currently?

[raider8169]

Read threw a few games but didnt find one that was 7 people.

Being defensive is going to happen as no one wants to be lynched. Being overly defensive I think is a scum tell but for most people (including myself) have a hard time telling the difference.

[raider8169]

BlakAdder, you FOSd him for being overly defensive, what were you hoping would come out of that?

[raider8169]

Yeah this game dropped off quick. Everyone seemed to stay under the radar during the ransom stage as nothing really came out of that.

[raider8169]

That sounds good, only why 7 days? Unless these types of games are meant to last a month for day 1 that seems a long time.

[raider8169]

Unvote

BlakAdder is that your response to Armlx suggestion?

[raider8169]

That is the point though. This will give us something to go off from.

Mine should be up sometime today. Just need to find some time where I have more then 10 minutes.

[raider8169]

Ok looking back Natirasha has made what I counted 5 posts, a confirm post, a self vote post, 2 bump type posts, a post made about how to display the vote count, the only post that talks about the same is one saying he does self vote at the start.

To answer Armlx's question Natirasha is the best place for my vote for the simple reasons as he has not contributed to the game outside of one post. I do not have a scum tell or anything like that but the active lurking is not pro-town. I am also not saying I want this case run to a lynch.

[raider8169]

The vote is only going to help if it leads to a lynch. I dont think Natirasha is going to talk more either way.

[raider8169]

I don't see getting rid of a massive lurker who is going to be of no help to us as scummy.

We have 3 lynches to hit 2 scum. You are saying essentially randoming one is the best way to do it? Especially at the point the random shot is the least likely to hit?

I agree with this. Lurking is not a scum tell but it seems that is going to be how the game goes. If one mislynch didnt bring us to lylo I would push for it but for now my vote only stands in hopes to change the lurking to posting.

[raider8169]

Unvote, Vote Bulvox

For jumping on not only the wagon of the obv inactive, but the self-vote gambit.

This I think is the best case going but I still want to keep my vote where it is. I am hoping it will cause Nat to post more.

[raider8169]

Or get replaced raider. Actually, I like that one a lot.

I agree, however if what he is doing is a play style then I dont see a replacement happening.

[raider8169]

Or get replaced raider. Actually, I like that one a lot.

I agree, however if what he is doing is a play style then I dont see a replacement happening.

It's not a playstyle, I'm just waiting for stuff to happen.

Toss a vote on someone and give a real reason. Then you will be making things happen instead of waiting.

[raider8169]

Hmmm thats odd, I unvoted and then placed my case and then didnt revote. During this whole time my intent was to have a vote on Natirasha. However at this time I was going to unvote.

I like armlx's case better then my own. So I will jump ships and

Vote Bulvox

[raider8169]

Armlx, do you wanting BA to be lynched?

[raider8169]

I dont have much to add, I still like where my vote stands. Im having a hard time reading BA or atleast he is not jumping out at me.

[raider8169]

If I am not mistaken isnt BA at L-?

[raider8169]

Post 188 PimHel voted for you. Looks like L-1 to me.

[raider8169]

Apothecary, looks like you will be the deciding vote. I would like to hear BA's claim though.

[raider8169]

I'm townie.

At L-1 thats all you have to say?

[raider8169]

So, Apothecary? What's your vote?

I agree, I dont think we are going to get anywhere until you take a side and vote.

[raider8169]

I thought the case on Bulvox was stronger. I guess we will see, soon I hope.

[raider8169]

Man, all my mods die...

Seems like a trend lately. With school and everything in full force I assume that has alot to do with it.

[raider8169]

No one died, I am guessing we have a doctor of some sort, and whoever the doc is good guessing!

[raider8169]

Policy FOS raider

for the "thank you doc" tell.

Actually, raider was 1 of 2 not on the BA lynch. Seems like a fair starting point.

Vote raider

Wow and FOS and Vote in the same point. Thats a first.

That is the first time if there is a doc I have been in a game where the doc guessed right if that is the case. Its all I was pointing out.

Also as far as the vote goes, you didnt leave me anything to discuss. I thought Bulvox was the better lynch. Still do but I would like to hear from everyone first before voting.

[raider8169]

I dont think claiming would be the best idea just yet. Only because I would like to hear from everyone first. After that then if that is what people want I am for it.

[raider8169]

BlakAdder wrote:
I'm townie.

At L-1 thats all you have to say?

Why would Raider say this?
Also he says that Bulvox's case seemed stronger to him, but I can't remember that he actually said why Bulvox case seemed good to him.
I agree with armlx. Thanking the doctor is most of the time a scum tell.

At this moment I'm having doubts about raider and natirasha. Hopefully a mass claim could help us more.

I said that because he was at L-1. I was expecting some sort of defense and not for him to just sit there and take it. It seemed odd to me.

Thanking the doctor a scum tell? I would think of it more as a null tell then anything. I guess someone could be stupid and say your welcome or something to that effect. Oh well.

[raider8169]

Im vanilla.

Armlx and Bulvox, what are your reasons for voting me?

Bulvox answer first.

[raider8169]

Im vanilla.

Armlx and Bulvox, what are your reasons for voting me?

Bulvox answer first.

Because your scum in their eyes, and your on the short list. Essentially, this is a game of "Follow-the-Cop" now.
AKA, doc don't claim.

They need more of a reason then that. I think I am at L-1 with no reason. That is scummy and Bulvox as I voted him yesterday is just jumping aboard. I dont like it one bit.

[raider8169]

Apothecary, are you a nurse or cop?

Same to Pim Hel.

If neither of you are, Natirasha is confirmed town.

How do you know there is even a cop in this game?

[raider8169]

At this point, raider, if your town, you should of been fine with just lynching yourself to prove your towniness.

unvote, vote: raider

Are you kidding me?!?!

The scummiest thing someone can do is lynch themselves. It hurts the town on so many levels.

I have yet to have a case agianst me. If I was to be lynched it is just a waste as no information is coming out of this.

[raider8169]

So because I questioned BA and still thought Bulvox was a better lynch makes me scum?

I have not been proven wrong that Bulvox is scum. Its less likely now but still not proven. I am happy with a Nat lynch because that is the most logical lynch. I dont understand how I am the next one in line though.

---

Vote Count

raider8169 (2) - Bulvox, Natirasha

Not Voting (4) - Apothecary, raider8169, PimHel, armlx

With 6 people remaining, it takes 4 votes to lynch.

[raider8169]

Raider, BA was scum is the real issue.

And epic lols at Nat lynch being logical right now, especially in the absence of a counter claim in an OPEN set up.

I didnt know this was an open set up. I feel stupid now.

[raider8169]

I didnt know this was an open set up. I feel stupid now.

You signed up for it in the OPEN queue.

Its name is OPEN 91.

Yeah you would think that would give it away. In my case you would be wrong.

[raider8169]

If everybody agrees with apothecary's innocence then we should lynch either Raider or Bulvox today. The other should be investigated by Natirasha at night.

Armlx questions of post 244:
1 I'm not a cop or nurse
2 I am the doc who protected armlx
4 Like I already said, I think we should lynch raider (see my previous post with some points against him) and if Natirasha is the cop, he should investigate Bulvox this night.

Apothecary, anything to add to the claims?

Looks like you would be the night kill then if I am lynched. That would give the cop a night to investigate Bulvox and then that would have 3 people cleared or we found our final scum. If I am not mistaken then tomorrow with 3 people cleared or we found the scum that would more less be the game right?

Can I offer a small change to the plan? Can we lynch Bulvox instead of me and then have the cop investigate me tonight? Either way it looks like a town win and I would rather be alive for it then not.

[raider8169]

Seriously, you just keep looking scummier.

Explain what the difference would be? Also how this is scummy?

[raider8169]

unvote

How are you not scum Raider? If you were town and the list is down to two people, you should have just offered yourself up for the lynch, just so that the game would go faster, thus causing a faster town win. I'm willing to let myself be lynched if that's the case.

As town or scum you fight till the end. It helps out town overall. Offing yourself will cause me not to like you and never to want to play another game with you. It is not in the spirit of the game.

I am town, lynching me will show that. If that is what you must do then do it, however I will defend myself. Not defending yourself is just crappy play.

[raider8169]

No. In a game where there is one scum left, 5 town, and you have three players confirmed town, you offer yourself up for lynch, confirming yourself town, then let the cop investigate for the win. Seriously, the longer you keep up this "I can't die!" thing, the more you prove yourself to be town. Or a VI.

I am not saying I cant die, I am a vanilla so its not like anything is keeping me alive. I am also not stopping anyone from placing a vote. I just think it would be better taking out someone else.

If I am not mistaken Nat, Armlx and PimHel are confirmed.

That still leaves what me, Bulvox and Apothecary?

I voted Bulvox along with confirmed townie Nat. I dont think that alone gives away me as scum. However I can understand how that makes me first on the chopping block. Doesnt mean I will just sit back and let it happen.

Bulvox and Apothecary voted BA. Kind of odd how the real scum bussed their partner. As BA voted Bulvox I think that does lean Bulvox as town but maybe they were both trying to buss and hope that gets them through the next day.

I am still thinking Bulvox is the scum but it doesnt add up.

[raider8169]

Wrong, Apothecary, PimHel, and I are confirmed.

Explain, I thought PinHel protected Armlx.

[raider8169]

Post 256.

[raider8169]

Mod, prod apothecary please?

That is all. Raider should be lynched if Apothecary claims not nurse/cop. PimHel would then protect Nat, Nat checks Bulvox, GG somewhere along the line.

And if Apothecary claims cop/nurse, lynch Nat today, Apothecary tomorrow if game isn't over.

Actually can't lose unless we lynch before Apothercary counters and he then does.

It is as long as you change Bulvox and myself around. But whatever you guys are not up for trying to get a flawless town win.

[raider8169]

Alright, then. If we assume armlx, PimHel, Apothecary, and mine innocence, then either Bulvox or raider is scum. I say we just lynch raider and work from there.

Do not assume Apothecary is town. If Bulvox investigation turns up town then Apothecary is your final scum.

[raider8169]

Again.

NO LYNCHES UNTIL APOTHECARY CAN POST TO CLAIM COP/NURSE OR NOT

After that, raider dies in horrific lynching fashion unless there is a counter.

If you were really worried about this happening you would atleast unvote me until Apothecary posts.

---

VOTE COUNT OF EPICNESS

RAIDER8169 (1) - NATIRASHA

NOT VOTING (5) - APOTHECARY, RAIDER8169, PIMHEL, ARMLX, BULVOX

WITH 6 PEOPLE REMAINING, IT TAKES 4 VOTES TO LYNCH.

[raider8169]

Hey, raider, nice one. I did that 2 pages ago when you got to L-1.

So you did, thanks. Didn't notice before.

Either way instead of a bah post I so need to do a told you so post.

Well even though it is not going to matter much I am going to

Vote Bulvox

as I think he is the final scum. I guess I will find out tomorrow.

[raider8169]

Hey, raider, why don't you unvote like you told me to?

The contradictions are boundless.

What reason would I have to unvote?

I had a reason as to not be quick lynched until everyone chimed in. I thought you were still voting.

Start listing my contradictions then, you will find they are not so boundless as you say.

[raider8169]

What reason would I have to unvote?

Uhh, less potential of game loss as town?

There is no potential lose as that is who I think is the scum.

[raider8169]

Umm, have you not read how I posted there is no way to lose if we just wait for Apothecary?

Does voting look like waiting?

You have pointed out a way to win, I will give you that. As I am first on the chopping block do you really expect me to not have my say? We can have a perfect town win here if you can just lynch the scum. That is what I am going for.

[raider8169]

Flawless victory is irrel. try again scum.

Care to show proof of how I am scum? Cause you will still be here tomorrow wether you like it or not and I will be a dead townie.

[raider8169]

Care to show proof of how I am scum? Cause you will still be here tomorrow wether you like it or not and I will be a dead townie.

The proof is that in a scenario where the town win regardless, you are pushing for your survival as an unconfirmed. As town there is no reason to do that as you win regardless, so the conclusion is you are scum trying to stay alive an extra day and maybe somehow pull a win out of a hopeless scenario.

As I have said the spirit of the game is to find the scum and lynch them. As what you are saying is not in the spirit, I tend not to go along with it. Granted I am the town that is going to get lynched but that really doesnt have anything to do with what I am trying to push across to you. As it seems everyone is not posting outside of us anymore it seems we are in a holding patern anyways.

[raider8169]

It is in the spirit of the game though...

Also, see the "You didn't vote for BA" issue.

This is why Apothecary has a chance to turn up scum. As once I turn up town that will confirm that everyone who voted for Bulvox is town.

What makes me think Apothecary is not scum is that he didnt need to bus his partner as he had another option.

[raider8169]

This is why Apothecary has a chance to turn up scum. As once I turn up town that will confirm that everyone who voted for Bulvox is town.

Appeal to emotion on the "I iz townz!" thing, and BA wasn't town.

And lols at bringing up Apothecary could be scum, then saying no.

Im loving your responses, reread them once you see I turn up town. Im only posting to have what I think will be the outcome on record.

[raider8169]

Its going to take more then you 3 to lynch me! I am the all powerful vanilla!

Good luck town dont mess this up!

And bah and all that good crap...

[raider8169]

Armlx, if you unvote I will vote myself but I will not hammer myself.

[raider8169]

Why does it matter if you are the hammer or 3rd vote on yourself? Seriously?

It doesn't in the least and I had no intention of voting myself. My vote is good right where it is.

[raider8169]

Really, raider had the time to defend himself during those last posts, instead of complaining about the votes.

Vote Raider8169

Show us if this was the correct lynch.

There was nothing to defend myself agianst. No one brought up a real case otherwise I would have done so. Plus Armlx's mind was made up. Bulvox and Nat were along for the ride. Good luck town, dont mess this up.

[raider8169]

Raider-
BA ignored him beyond the early game semi-random stuff, but raider attacked back a bit and still voted Bulvox

For the records this is not a case. It just means I fit a possible profile. Does not confirm town nor scum but it does not confirm town. To me this just means I was someone to be looked at and then questioned. That did not happen in an information gathering sense. You just thought you would start with me instead. Again with no case only that I am one of 3 possible scum members. You will learn soon enough I am town as I have been saying. I was also trying to get everyone to learn towards Bulvox. But whatever it doesnt matter, I told you I was town.

[raider8169]

Upon finding out that the role blocker could block and kill why did you guys not no lynch?

[raider8169]

Upon finding out that the role blocker could block and kill why did you guys not no lynch?

It gets us nowhere. He just kills Nat and we end up in the same scenario with less of a buffer.

That said, I probably rushed the Raider lynch a little. I just forgot about the RB completely.

You think you rushed my lynch

I knew about it but I thought that the scum would be able to do RB or kill not both. I thought he would block Nat instead of killing as then he wouldnt have been sold out.

[raider8169]

Ha ha! Great work, my scumbuddy!

Did you guys have that planed out for him to hammer you?