do you not TR ego? Honestly his whole iso felt towny. If you insist I can pick some but I'd rather not put in the effort since theres no pressure on ego.
another flaw in your idea is that it's a bad idea to draw more attention to myself with say a readlist if I'm being pressured. If I was scum, I'd lurk and have my partners cause a distraction to derail my wagon.
Other than Isis right now, Plus is the other person I'm leaning scum on right now. Admittedly, he has said that he tried playing differently because he often gets mislimmed, which is part of why I am looking at Isis and have my vote there. I have mislimmed Plus in the past as town, but some of his posts in this game give me a feel that he has thought about them more and have scum drive behind them.
In post 476, PlusJOYED wrote:do you not TR ego? Honestly his whole iso felt towny. If you insist I can pick some but I'd rather not put in the effort since theres no pressure on ego.
another flaw in your idea is that it's a bad idea to draw more attention to myself with say a readlist if I'm being pressured. If I was scum, I'd lurk and have my partners cause a distraction to derail my wagon.
I'm interested in hearing your reasoning more so than trying to form a read there myself
In post 342, Random Canadian wrote:Xofelf, I kind of agree you on the Plus read. He seems a little more calculated than my past experiences with him, which gives me some suspicion of them but much like you say about yourself, Plus is an easy target at times because of his play.
In post 344, xofelf wrote:In post 342, Random Canadian wrote:
Xofelf, I kind of agree you on the Plus read. He seems a little more calculated than my past experiences with him, which gives me some suspicion of them but much like you say about yourself, Plus is an easy target at times because of his play.
What do you think about his opening post in 35?
Is that more calculated? That just seems a bit "hold up let me get an RVS in here real quick, and also some thoughts real hurried that aren't gonna mean much, but are definitely here." It does ping weird, but I didn't think anything of it cuz it could mean anything really.
The opposite really. I feel that post is less likely to come from a calculated scum standpoint. Specifically the speculation on a role because of the strongman doesn't align with the feeling I was getting. I get the calculated feeling from some of his later posts but wanted to hear your opinion on that one since you thought had some thoughts that his play might be opportunistic.
In post 351, Random Canadian wrote:Sure. In this situation scum know exactly what roles town has. I'm finding it hard to believe that scum!Plus would come out of the gate faking a guess that town has a certain role based on the scum roles chosen.
Other than Isis right now, Plus is the other person I'm leaning scum on right now. Admittedly, he has said that he tried playing differently because he often gets mislimmed, which is part of why I am looking at Isis and have my vote there. I have mislimmed Plus in the past as town, but some of his posts in this game give me a feel that he has thought about them more and have scum drive behind them.
It feels like you are flipping around on Plus a bit, that's why I'm asking. Can you provide an example of something with scum drive or that seems more thought out than you are used to?
In post 476, PlusJOYED wrote:do you not TR ego? Honestly his whole iso felt towny. If you insist I can pick some but I'd rather not put in the effort since theres no pressure on ego.
another flaw in your idea is that it's a bad idea to draw more attention to myself with say a readlist if I'm being pressured. If I was scum, I'd lurk and have my partners cause a distraction to derail my wagon.
terrible explanation. If ur gonna call someone town, u explain why. u don't just sheep the consensus read on that player(which I dont even agree ego being town is the consensus anyways)
In post 320, Dunnstral wrote:I don't think it's bad for Noraa to be assuming BM is town
Do you want to explain why? Because usually knowing other people are town based only on reading your own role PM is a Bad Thing.
In post 316, egotisi wrote:hmm
isis, why are 279/280 towny to you? like they read like null-to-maaaaybe-nullscum posts to me
279 has townslip equity from the incorrect probability being more blaring if she's participating in a scum PT that doesn't include 50% of the town. She could still post it as either alignment but that skews town.
280's particular brand of remorse for a hypothetical Isis vote seems like part of her headspace is thinking about it as gamethrowing. It seems harder for it to come about if she knows we're not aligned.
I'm not surprised by disagreement about 280 since it does have some performative to it.
Spoiler:
In post 338, xofelf wrote:If you're gonna vote me, you mind spelling my name right? Sorry, yesterday my computer was exploding and I hate typing via mobile. I get it, I tend to look like I'm barely contributing and only posting for the sake of it. That's kind of my thing though. I watch and I wait, I ask questions to see if the reactions to them feel a weird type of way or not, and I observe. That's just how I play, which does usually mean people tend to feel a type of way about that but y'all do you. Not a super readslist kind of person, not that great at mechanically solving. But sometimes I notice when people feel off from how they normally do. Yes I joined in 2008, but I play incredibly rarely. I did play a bunch of games this past year, but it had been a good two or three before that, and the one I played was an invitational. My luck is that I roll roles I dislike playing more often than I roll the ones that I find entertaining and fun. I'm not scum but I don't expect y'all to believe me anyways.
Thoughts I have as I've been reading but hadn't had a chance to share at all. PlusJOYED feels opportunistic, and like they'll go for whatever vote they can get enough traction on, and I'm always a real easy target. Tayl0r I don't feel so weird about but they didn't start off great. I still like BM, he feels reasonable. Isis I've played both a scum and town game with this past year, and I know she hates scum and gives off an air of indecision and stress when she's not town that I don't think I'm seeing here. Murdercat I'm getting some town vibes from, feels like someone who uses votes as reaction testing rather than questions or statements, which is fair. Noraa is a ball of exerberance but that's just her as a person, and I can't get any sort of read on her one way or another cuz the excitability is pretty NAI. egotisi I like, but I may just be fond cuz it's Datisi and George Bailey, not that they're doing anything particularly standout at the moment. Jewel Barons I want to see more from, but this feels like town!Gamma posting, what I expect to see from him. Random Canadian, who? No really, who, I have nothing about them and I'm sure they've posted to, but they register at all. Same goes for Exorcists, but them I have a slight favourbility towards. I may have to actually effort and iso for anything there. Cobrakai is fine? Pretty null though, but replacement vibes. Dunnstral sure is a man who exists. But not in a bad way, just a quieter way.
So the tl;dr of that is:
"You, keep talking":
Murdercat
BattleMage
egotisi
Jewel Barons
Isis
People who exist allegedly:
Dunnstral
Random Canadian
Exorcists
Cobrakai
Noraa:
Noraa
Much nose wrinkling in their direction:
Tayl0r
PlusJOYED
This seems town indicative from xof, and the kind of potential response that made me think a vote on them was likely to be more useful than elsewhere.
tl;dr, I don't think much of this seems like what xofelf would think we want from them.
I feel sad Noraa is specialer than me though
Fair sentiment, may just. But I'm genuinely curious why she thinks that. The explanation you and Murdercat gave seemed solid enough to me as to why it was a bad idea.
In post 119, xofelf wrote:Could just be dumb instead of scum. I don't underestimate people's abilities to just be bad.
I do think I need more time to have any sort of reads on anybody, but I do think I at least like where BM's head is at. Reminds me of a handful of other players that I've had good feelings about in the few games I've played this year.
Also hi Gamma <3
these two posts are unbelievably rude considering we dont know each other at all. and that might be coloring my xofelf read. on the other hand, it seems like a really cheap reason to scumread someone and dismiss them without actually having to do any work to sort them, so this also genuinely pings me as scum.
then theres the readlist from xofelf. from xofelfs self meta, they are a tone/gutreader like me. and they often have strange reads and get scumread like me. consequently, id expect us to be very much on the same page. and i generally trust myself to be pretty accurate with confident townreads, even if my scumhunting leaves something to be desired. so the fact that xofelf hasnt sorted a lot of the people i have, and has sorted as town some of the people im still waiting to sort really pings me hard.
VOTE: xofelf
i still dont like how fast the RC wagon fell apart for no reason other than "ooh a shiny"
that said, i was ready to move on to a more serious wagon myself, but RC has not done anything to deserve that votes move away. in fact, im a bit concerned that RC seems to have dodged the thread for the most part since the wagon formed.
This doesn't seem like a natural response to those posts. I guess both town and scum ought to feel better instead of worse when they get a hallpass for ineptitude that is going to get them townread, but it makes more sense for scum!Taylor to be upset due to a lack of control. If that makes sense.
In post 307, Random Canadian wrote:Also, I want to take a look at the people on my wagon. I get why the wagon formed but it was a surprise to me to come back to it mainly because I just wasn't on between posts too much. Plus also mentioned he thought there might be scum on my wagon. This is mainly for me to look at tomorrow deeper because I need to get some sleep now.
Getting back to looking at this, I like the Isis vote the least in 173. At the very least, it's against her playstyle of sorting people by talking to them rather than voting as she didn't address me at all and just followed Excorcists vote. I also found their progression to leave the wagon to reaction bait Noraa and then townreading her in 295 was weird. I don't have a problem with their vote on Xofelf to "get them in deeper" but the transition from against Noraa to trying to get them to vote her with throws up some red flags for me.
VOTE: Isis
It depends a ton on what I expect a vote to do. I cared a lot more about what a small pile of votes on xofelf would do, since I know them well enough to know they're pretty likely to get more sortable if voted just a bit.
I guess the main thing I was trying to whine about is that I think there's lots of meta on MS of putting people who will be less readable at E1 at E1 and then people use confbias to read how they react. The staler your wagon got the more I was feeling worried about re-enacting that phenomenon (cause whenever you could check the thread again, the same number of votes would feel more serious), so I was interested in doing something else.
In post 401, PlusJOYED wrote:norwee we've played with scum noraa before
can you elab more on your noraa scumread
peddit: nah there are other reasons too. I feel like RC is
flailing
a bit rn
Like this lol see what I'm talking about XD
confbias recipes
I disagree with plus and like the thinking shown in voting me.
In post 401, PlusJOYED wrote:norwee we've played with scum noraa before
can you elab more on your noraa scumread
peddit: nah there are other reasons too. I feel like RC is flailing a bit rn
1)the games ongoing so don't u dare say anything about that
2)plus you have more experience with scum Noraa than norwee. why are you not trying to solve me? All I see is you agreeing with Taylor that I'm hard to solve and then asking Norwee to solve me. Can't you solve me urself? I don't think town!plus hesitates to solve me rn or talks about me this much while never directly solving. I could see town!plus completely avoiding me bc he is not confident he can solve me or actively trying hard to solve me. I cannot see town!plus actively engaging me but backing away from solving and finding millions of excuses when no one even asked. You seem to think you have to talk about me to keep me not suspicious of u but you want to just go with the flow and blend into the rest of town.
I will be putting pressure here.
VOTE: Plus
This... looks like someone looking for "valid" reasons to give someone demerits, then using her vote the way she said she doesn't use it if she's town.
In post 413, Jewel Barons wrote:Can you provide the evidence for this because that's not accurate imo
Bold move to include this in a hedgy quotewall.
Locke13 in Death List, gobbledygook in Flying Scumsman, me, in like, certain cases, Flying Scumsman actually lol. This is definitely something that's empirical and not something I figured should be theoretically true and started looking for in games.
In post 439, Dunnstral wrote:Elephant in the room: Mod response implies the hydra is town
Considering everyone to the left of me is your townreads, I'm neutral, and everyone to the right of me is your scumread, then from my point of view; you're either scum, townreading scum, or you're exactly right on your three scumreads. Given the basis for your reads, and general probability, it's probably one of the first two.
This looks a lot like scummy neener neenering I see scum do when a solve is wrong. Like, why post this? Town!you knows Plus can't play this game assuming you're town and that's not how it works. I expect scum!you to want to gloat, more.
___
I'm caught up and I want to VOTE: Noraa, it's been lots of bits and pieces too small to quote but the bits where she doesn't believe herself deserving to be townread doesn't make me want to townread her. It outweighs the things I liked.
Dunnstral seems scummy to me, but by now I think I've tallied enough read accuracy from him across games that I want him alive more than other players because a town!Dunnstral is going to solve the game for me.
I'd find Jewel Barons a little scummy for being sideliney if I ignored the PT thing, but I agree with Dunnstral about that being a strong push town and that matters more. And I'm used to not loving Gamma's posting until finally finding something I like on page 80.
If I had to pick another scum I think I'd pick Swift but I want to give her room to play right now.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
Yeah, I've been leaning scum on Plus but am trying to reason it out. 346 and 351 are because for the most part I think Plus's posts fit in line with my thinking that they might be scum. However, I have a bit of a harder time seeing Plus's first post fit the scum motivation hence why I asked Xofelf in 342 what their thoughts on that post were to try and get a new perspective on it.
hold up, upon iso checking, I think there is something I missed first read
-RC voting and defending himself then leaving is a tiny bit weird, could be nothing
-xoltelf is rather sus. specifically, the fact that they joined in like 2008 and pull a newbiecard, claiming they're rusty and they've never considered option B for meta, and seem very open minded. I don't expect people to be mafia gods just cause of an early join date but I do expect them to know what they're doing and their uncertain tone feels very fake to me. VOTE: xoltelf
This one feels like positioning himself to suspect me later and put his vote on Xofelf for rather weak reasons in my opinion.
In post 180, PlusJOYED wrote:hmm this RC wagon is koving kinda fast
i think there could be scum on it
Later, sets himself up to look at people voting me even though he helped create momentum around the wagon on me with the previous post I quoted. He eventually did look at the votes, and picked out Murdercat as the vote he didn't like on the wagon.
When people back his read of Xolfelf, he puts himself out as still scumreading him to keep his positioning. Xofelf hadn't posted between Plus's vote and this post so why the need to post this other than to have his positioning down in writing?
Here he gives himself a reason to not suspect Noraa at the time but this one is very weak and he says so himself that it is a fallacy. This is bigtime positioning to go after Noraa later.
In post 295, Isis wrote:279 and 280 read town to me. I think I've already mentioned to you I don't need my vote to feel people out, I can do it with my voice. My vote is more a symbol of who seems scummiest.
Seeing how you would respond is part of that.
"I think Isis will be at a scum lean" sounds like justifying a scumread rather than explaining one, speaking of, why aren't you voting me?
those posts are without a doubt within noraas scumrange
agree with taylor, noraa is one of those slots that just gets solved over time.
Hints that certain posts from Noraa could be part of her scum game. It just feels thought out to me about where Plus is trying to go and leave himself many different people to possibly scum read later. This also feels like a planned progression to eventually vote Noraa. Soft scumreading her without blatantly saying it and leaving it open enough for interpretation.
Individually his posts don't look that out of the ordinary but put together, I think he has a plan to look active and comment on the things going on. Within his comments, it looks like he could have scum motivation to put himself in position to scumread many different people later on as he needs. At the moment, he has many weak townreads but none seem that strong that he wouldn't come back on later if he needs to.
Isis doesnt have any reasons to sus me is what I've concluded.
The only reason for SRing is currently "bc she said people shouldn't give her free town passes" or basically the same thing. Terrible reasoning though I suspect if Isis was scum, she would pick out some more fake arguments than just this so eh. I shall leave you be for now but ur SRs are not well backed up. Not to mention ur post with all the reads has about two sentences dedicated to me and far more dedicated to other people yet your vote is on me. That's definitely strange.
Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.
Come play Guess that Scummer OR ELSE
That's only going to make me feel better about it. It's usually the simple ones that actually flip with the red text
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
RC I recommend metaing plus if you feel motivated enough to do it.
I really didn't like town!Plus my first game with him and I think if this was my first game with him I would possibly be scumreading him rather than townreading him
He has funky approaches
I don't feel confident enough to outright fight the wagon building on him though.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
In post 487, Isis wrote:RC I recommend metaing plus if you feel motivated enough to do it.
I really didn't like town!Plus my first game with him and I think if this was my first game with him I would possibly be scumreading him rather than townreading him
He has funky approaches
I don't feel confident enough to outright fight the wagon building on him though.
I've finished one game with Plus and another brief game that can't be talked about at the moment. I did do some meta with plus during our first game together. It just seems like he has more of a plan this game as opposed to Ancient Arthropods, he just kind of did whatever he was feeling at the time. I supported a Plus mislim in that game.
I want to be cautious because there is something to be said for people's game changing over time and like I said earlier, I have trouble seeing his first post being faked as scum.
just to save a bit of time and effort, general announcement that I'm not gonna engage with personal attacks and such. it's just a game, and the focus needs to be on determining alignments, rather than personal stuff.
i'll get back stuck into this one later, just taking a break for now.
In post 495, Battle Mage wrote:just to save a bit of time and effort, general announcement that I'm not gonna engage with personal attacks and such. it's just a game, and the focus needs to be on determining alignments, rather than personal stuff.
i'll get back stuck into this one later, just taking a break for now.
*sends bm a virtual huggie*
take a break when u need it. dont let a game make u sad.
Spoiler:
Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.
Come play Guess that Scummer OR ELSE
Plus please elaborate on your SR. Im fine if its meta based but you cant just say eyyy its for meta reasons and then I refute it and u go eh idc ur still scum.
Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.
Come play Guess that Scummer OR ELSE
