Mini 2167: Illicit Substances Mafia (Game Over!)

Bell · Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:15 pm

In post 6349, April Ludgate wrote:Also, @Bell - if you’re scum who just faked that interaction, I think you just became my new fave.

Actually, if either of you are scum, it makes me happy.

Scum don't really say this tho.
So that's nice.

Bell · Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:37 am

VOTE: MWB

Bell · Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:48 am

I don't strongly disagree with Rem's points.
I think killing morph was dumb unless 420 fake claimed.

Bell · Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:48 am

I'm pretty sold on April town at this point though.

Bell · Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:30 pm

*Back flips*

VOTE: MWB

Bell · Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:34 pm

Please play better if you're town this game. <3
If you can't tell from my townie aura I rolled town then I dunno what to say at this point.

Bell · Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:36 pm

Back flips are significantly cooler than front flips.
Because less effort is involved. Effortless cool.

Bell · Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:40 pm

In post 6452, midwaybear wrote:I don't understand why you are townread by everyone this game. Now it's just suspicious

Usually. I obvious town. Unless you're one of those "Mechanics only prove whether someone is scum or not"
I'm just playing like town with a town perspective. I'm saying townie things. I'm doing townie things. Scum Joyed also gave me an obv town read when that's pretty much what killed my read of him because he gave it without any significant thought. You're doing the opposite. You're scum reading me without any significant thought. But, I wouldn't say you're nearly as likely to be scum as Joyed was.
Because the bar on scum you was set fairly low. So I'm not sure if I'm misreading your grumpy bear persona or not.

Bell · Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:41 pm

In post 6455, morph the cat wrote:
In post 6448, Bell wrote:*Back flips*

VOTE: MWB
if that was for my attention, we're not voting until we've had some specific convos with specific players.

morbid townie is in the house.

Nope.

Bell · Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:43 pm

It seems important to you?

Bell · Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:46 pm

I am obvious town.

Just not to you. For some reason.

Bell · Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:01 pm

Probably not.
Or at the least I'll be pretty annoyed if people start scum reading me given my interactions with Joyed pointing significantly away from that. I know it's daunting but you should reread the game or at least pretend to be engaged if you're scum this game. There's a serious lack of nuance or critical insight in your posts this game day.

Bell · Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:03 pm

812 posts. Plz figure out if I'm town or not by this point. TY.

Bell · Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:06 pm

In post 6471, morph the cat wrote:I wonder if it's possible to target maid at night.

This sounds like a terrible idea. But idiot at PR's over here.

Bell · Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:06 pm

I really don't think you need to target me April because I have confidence I can just keep reassuring you until we win because you chose right when you said I was town.

Bell · Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:07 pm

It doesn't help ME solve the game any. Though I do love being in neighborhoods.

Bell · Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:10 pm

I guess if I have a vote I would go with Muffin or TV.

I'm not sure Rem would gut scum read Joyed as scum him.

Bell · Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:13 pm

I did an early reread and I felt that Morph wouldn't meta Joyed and give him a hard time early game as an untested partner who might fuck up.
I felt that Rem wouldn't scum read Joyed by the gut approach if scum because the killing intent felt fairly convincingly real + I'm weirded out by the claim he gave out for little reason. I mentioned the scenario in which he might game state gambit but I also think that I kinda believe him when he says that didn't happen.
I also don't think Rem is wrong a lot this game.
Minus the muffin read which is a little off. But whatever. Maybe my reads are horribly off.

Bell · Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:14 pm

In post 6483, morph the cat wrote:
In post 6482, Bell wrote:I guess if I have a vote I would go with Muffin or TV.

I'm not sure Rem would gut scum read Joyed as scum him.
Is that your scumpool, after a redflip from midway?

It really depends what happens with Maid.
I just think that either of those visits helps me solve. More than a Rem visit. At this point. But like I said, I'm town over here so I don't really know.

Bell · Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:15 pm

In post 6487, midwaybear wrote:Well I guess I won't have to wait too long for that to happen.

Plz do something.

Bell · Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:17 pm

can't argue with that.

I'm just one vote.

Just please for the love of whatever god (or atheiest/agnostic ethical belief system you adhere too) don't lie about who you're going to visit.

Bell · Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:17 pm

No rush.

Bell · Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:25 pm

Last login was oct 15.

Bell · Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:33 pm

In post 6531, midwaybear wrote:
In post 6525, April Ludgate wrote:We’re gonna have a double death eventually, so no fade is just anti productive.
How do you know we will have a double death?

You’re about to die and this is what you go with?

Bell · Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:40 pm

In post 6548, midwaybear wrote:I don't think I will die.

Why don’t you think that?

Bell · Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:44 pm

In post 6547, Remilia Scarlet wrote:or we're just eating shit out of 420's hand because you've decided it's legitimate

Don’t know, sorry I can’t help with this.

Bell · Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:54 pm

In post 6552, midwaybear wrote:How am I scummy?

I’m thinking.
I guess in the simplest terms your critical thinking and analysis took a serious nose dive this day phase.
There’s no detail in what you say. Your defense is so spectacularly bad and your awareness of the game state if you aren’t a PR that fake claimed VT is really not aligned with a town mindset that I can see.

Playing decently day 1 and semi decently day 2 In terms of appearance just doesn’t matter if you suddenly start playing like scum day 3. If you’re town i’m sorry. \:

If you’re Town I also suggest you give your reads and your thoughts this game now rather than in the dead thread.

Bell · Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:55 pm

Morph do both your heads think mwb could be scum here?

Bell · Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:56 pm

In post 6571, midwaybear wrote:I'm playing the exact same as I did on Day 1 and Day 2.

I disagree.

Bell · Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:58 pm

Or perhaps better put you’re playing the exact same way when the game doesn’t really allow for you to be the same from day to day to day to day as new information comes in. You should be being more detailed and more thoughtful as the days progress. But I’m not seeing that. Maybe I can’t read you though. I’m wrong a lot.

Bell · Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:56 pm

Muffin, over under on MWB scum?

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:13 pm

Whoever the last scum is, gets it.
Also, my brain hurts.
Also, ST in neighborhoo?
Also going to be a messy mess person here.
Today.

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:17 pm

In post 6690, Secret Tunnel wrote:They changed their target to Bork

Oh yeah thanks for reminding me also, I don’t feel well today. Sorry.
But I think we got this.

I left a note for you about my mwb thoughts @morph. For post game.

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:18 pm

Can bulge confirm Rem is in the neighborhood?

Or could April still post in the neighborhood but not here?

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:20 pm

I got one.

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:02 pm

April would have posted in the neighborhood if he could by now I believe.

Nap time.

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:18 pm

In post 6721, Maid Cafe wrote:Has everyone mass claimed with a list of actions n1/n2? If so can someone link me to said post. Thanks

Why are you still alive.

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:24 pm

I'm slow so forgive me.

But what do you mean by unable to submit day actions?

A lightning rod is someone that draws all night actions to the player right? Or is it one in which you redirect one player's abilities to you per your selection?

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:24 pm

In post 6729, Maid Cafe wrote:Information we know.

- 2 scum have flipped not roleblocker.
- Scum has a 3rd role that isn't a roleblocker
- April was roleblocked N2.

We were removed from the game roleblocking April.
Our claim is literally confirmed at this stage.

pedit: no

VOTE: MaidCafe

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:26 pm

Flavor claim please.
You're being anti-town and acting on a misplaced sense of ethics or are scum.
This game is important to us. We've spent significant amounts of time trying to solve it. We're in a good position. We need as much information as we can gather.

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:38 pm

We have a white mage, a neighborizor, some sort of ability to remove players by scum or some weird pheonomena (there are no such things as out of player pheonomena right?)

@Maid you're not a bomb?

Maid how come April successfully neighborized Bulge N1, but failed to neigborize night 2.

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:39 pm

In post 6753, Maid Cafe wrote:
In post 6749, Maid Cafe wrote:
In post 6746, Maid Cafe wrote:I told you that these people wouldn't listen beeboy they're so out of it LOOOOOOOL
I hate mafia.
I never thought nailing 2 mafia would make me feel bad but it sure does rn

What does this have to do with flavor claiming.

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:41 pm

In post 6773, Maid Cafe wrote:
In post 6768, Bell wrote:Maid how come April successfully neighborized Bulge N1, but failed to neigborize night 2.
BECAUSE WE USED OUR ACTION N2? LMFAO

Calm down.

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:42 pm

You're spending a lot of time on ego and less on trying to play toward your win condition.

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:43 pm

Flavor claim.
Why do you as a lightning rod need to know what other players did before claiming first?
Why did you lie (or did you lie?) about being a bomb?

What did you discuss (if anything) in your PT.

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:45 pm

In post 6783, Maid Cafe wrote:
In post 6778, Bell wrote:
In post 6773, Maid Cafe wrote:
In post 6768, Bell wrote:Maid how come April successfully neighborized Bulge N1, but failed to neigborize night 2.
BECAUSE WE USED OUR ACTION N2? LMFAO
Calm down.
I'm perfectly calm I'm honestly laughing because of how hard you guys are trying to make a conf town the fade today

Maybe worry about this when it starts happening.

*going radio silence*

I'll let Morph, Muffin and Rem ask the questions.
I'm trash at it and I'm cluttering.

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:16 pm

In post 6852, Secret Tunnel wrote:@bell if you’re still skimming can you back me up on maids reads? Them claiming they nailed the scum team is weird and doesn’t make sense with their iso

They have two heads.
Perhaps MariaR had all the bad reads and Beeboy had all the good reads.
It's also inexplicable that scum could force a draw by self targeting.

This ability have been used 3 times, nobody is claiming that they did this.

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:21 pm

Is there a specific wording to what April said about his action that could differentiate between being role blocked and having his investigate sucked into the void?

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:22 pm

In post 6866, morph the cat wrote:Also, april presumably cannot post to his neighborhood right now, because he's been on site a LOT and no way he wouldn't be writing an essay through the bulge right now.

He was one when Bulge posted too.

Is there a guide to which actions are faster in a priority list?

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:27 pm

Copy
Hide-?
Bus Drive-?
Block - ?
Redirect- Maid?
Protect - White mage.
Miscellaneous. or maid?
Kill - Scum.
Recruit - April.
Inspect

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:30 pm

I'm not sure if it makes sense (at all) for one scum to have both a x- role blocking ability and some vortex ability.

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:31 pm

The vortex ability can't be self-target.
That would be extremely silly right?

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:33 pm

Where on that priority list does the alien role fall?

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:35 pm

It's illicit.

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:37 pm

Can you guys gather your thoughts and ask pointed questions that can get to the bottom of this?

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:39 pm

We should map out the time line and ability priority list to make sure it fits.

Rem thinks it belongs in the "block" block. Anyone disagree?

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:41 pm

N1: Lightning rod abilities activate. -> Blocker goes first -> Lightning rod ability is refunded. -> Bulge is neighborized, S_S is killed. Who does/did Maid protect?
Question 1: With a 1-shot do you get a refund if you're blocked?

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:43 pm

In post 6911, Remilia Scarlet wrote:
In post 6910, Bell wrote:With a 1-shot do you get a refund if you're blocked?
varies

That sucks.

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:44 pm

If mariaboy is scum as morph said they either have another scum team member or they can self target.
I don't really want to live in a world where a town member fake claimed and is fucking with us. Everyone already posted afterall.

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:50 pm

Night 2:

Question #2: How does the removiser have priority but not activate and then get redirected?

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:52 pm

In post 6924, Bell wrote:Night 2:

Question #2: How does the removiser have priority but not activate and then get redirected?

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:59 pm

I don't think a 1-shot role blocker Alien make sense together.

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:59 pm

Or, however many shots they have.

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:03 pm

Nevermind I think I understand it now.

The alien's ability is a role blocker.
There's no such thing as an escape velocity ability (all abilities get redirected to a lightning rod, but which one gets there first will depend on NAR).
N1: The first that got there was the alien so everything proceeded as normal.
N2: They were not targeted, everything got redirected to the lightning rod, but the lightning rod was then sent out to space first. So the NK, Neighborize, Protect all went poof and missed.
N3: Proceed as normal.

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:06 pm

Straight up, I don't NK S_S N1.

Did I already say how in my notes PT or in thread that I had a very difficult time believing almost anyone in this game that is experienced let scum shoot S_S N1?

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:06 pm

Didn't Maid said he protected you N2 morph?

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:08 pm

Ah, either Maid lied about protecting people two nights in a row or he didn't protect anyone N1.

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:12 pm

In post 6955, Secret Tunnel wrote:Bell mage role protects the same player for two nights

He acted on morph n1

Pedit
Yeah

Ah, I see. Thanks.

@Morph. Yeah. I just want to close this game up.

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:14 pm

I haven't reached a conclusion yet.

I'm not sure where MWB's meltdown came from.

We still need Maidcafe to answer every question and catch up.

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:18 pm

Tbh, how Rem is reacting rn is very much scummy and maybe his heart is dead inside because he rolled scum this game.

Also, please don't yell at me.

Bell · Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:21 pm

I'm taking Morph's advice and going to bed.

Just make sure due process is done here.
Give Maid time.

Bell · Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:18 am

I didn’t sleep at all.VOTE: Rem

Bell · Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:24 am

In post 6996, Remilia Scarlet wrote:sigh. i didn't either and i'm getting really suspicious of anyone who isn't you pushing that

Two of rem’s recent posts pinged me.

Due to where my head is at rn, I son’t Think it would even make sense.

His “tone huh” sounded like it had a double meaning of wistfulness.
#6996 is. post I don’t think a town Bork makes due to it deflecting or trying to relax tensions between a player that should be more likely than not scum
From his POV.

Things to resolve:
Maid.
Muffin.
The duck did Rem claim that wild role for if scum?

Bell · Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:25 am

I’m going to try to sleep during the day and probably fail. But be in no position to post either way.

Bell · Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:47 am

You’d have to be nuts to think i’m scum this game.
Also dying also hate myself.

Bell · Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:58 am

Please don’t.
I’m seriously considering replacing out due to the weird head space i’m in.
I need help to game solve.

Bell · Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:03 am

2 hours shut eye.

Could the vortex ability explain his claim?
In a elo situation he could just yeet a player out and kill the other.

Bell · Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:14 am

Rem’s Claim on it’s face, does it actually work as a counter to the alien ability?

Bell · Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:17 am

You guys don’t have to answer these questions now. You can answer them later this day phase. No pressure.

I won’t replace out. But I do feel like I need to site flake for 24 hours to reset.

Bell · Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:18 pm

I feel like if you think about it funny.
Morph’s avatar is the vortex and they’re open wolfing.

Bell · Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:19 pm

Oh and i might as well be transparent glass this game.

Bell · Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:21 pm

I don’t think I ever explained my conception of what the pink alien realm that they transport people to looks like.
I’d like to think it’s looks like your avatar background.

Bell · Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:21 pm

Shot maybe we’re both in that vortex now that I look at my own avatar.

Bell · Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:22 pm

Don’t think about it too hard, it’s just a silly thought and i’m trying to lighten the mood.

Bell · Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:43 pm

Resolving maid. accepting that based on activity i’m not sure how helpful they’ll be with closing this up.

Um. Wondering if tunnel could be this obvious town in terms of actions and empathy while still being scum.

Wondering if i’m Wrong on Rem. As messed up as it is I don’t think I am given Rem’s Position on muffin is paper thin “he thinks good’ which gives him room to back peddle.
Wondering if i’m Wrong on muffin. Rem’s not wrong about the corner thing. But his confidence there is very strange given his reasoning.

Bell · Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:46 pm

Bork’s confidence I mean.

There are things that point away from muffin.
Such as mechanics gauging.

I’m not sure what world we live in where a scum team would kill s_s with me, morph, rem or muffin in it.

I directly recall muffin saying that he does not force his scum partners but gives advice and nudges them towards the correct conclusion.
But the idea that he failed to nudge them out of that kill is mind boggling.

Bell · Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:48 pm

By mechanics gauging I mean he did directly interfere with the accidental joyed save, I would have in fact jumped in but I don’t think it makes significant amounts of sense for him to watch it play as town instead of scum. Though I also know he does not tolerate stupid stuff happening and maybe he even will do that against his wi. Condition.

Bell · Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:51 pm

The one thing that bothers me a lot is his mwb radio silence as he scummed it up.

Bell · Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:53 pm

This has been 40 minutes with SOC town phone posting bell.

Meh.

Bell · Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:57 pm

Oh and objectively his recommendation in hindsight would have resulted in no progress and one extra dead town. That plus the radio silence bothers me.

Bell · Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:00 pm

And a bunch of other things.
But a bunch of other things is my world view in which everyone can be scum
And everyone can be town. Minus mechanic clears.

But that’s roughly speaking exactly where my thoughts are.
Rem, muffin, tunnel.

There’s some morph scum space based on pseudo emotional and dramatic scum cabd who tried to save joyed but I feel like it doesn’t hold up well. You’ve done a lot this game. And tried a lot.

Bell · Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:10 pm

On the surface and it’s not a bad surface. Correcting the record is pro town.
Mostly because joyed is scum. When scum muffin could have just watched.
It depends on loose reasoning whether the outcomes would have been better letting it ride versus stopping it.

There’s a clock on that kind of objective interference. If muffin hadn’t done it, someone else would have and those town points wouldn’t be his. But I feel gross thinking about it this way. I guess it’s just more gray in Bell world.

Bell · Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:11 pm

I disown that accidental emoji.

Bell · Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:27 am

We do.

Mechanically, we have 3 clears.
3 eliminations(?)
Though I will be extremely sad if I failed to grasp the mechanics and accidentally cleared maid for dumb reasons. I just don’t see a universe where they can self target even though they’re probably not going to be very engaged in the remainder of this game.

Bell · Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:28 am

In post 7148, The Bulge wrote:sorry, why isn't it just remi here?

Um, mechanically there aren’t a whole lot of reasons it can’t be rem.

Bell · Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:17 am

This is what you get for mod sass.
When you sass the mod the mod sass back

Bell · Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:05 pm

In post 4571, Remilia Scarlet wrote:I'm claiming, fuck it.

Brotherhood, Last Resort ("Catch You When You Fall Bro")

If scum were to hammer me, at ELO, game will not end, VC will be reset, and my role PM will be posted in the thread.

Bell · Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:05 pm

Goddamnit.

Bell · Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:55 pm

Hi. Do I have to post more.

I can make a case for and against Rem and may or may not become eliminatable/uneliminatable from it. But I don't really feel like it.

Bell · Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:57 pm

Okay. Sorry I'm wrong if I'm wrong.

@Morph not out of the question. Didn't I mention that already. Yeah it looks like I did.

Bell · Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:10 pm

In post 7317, Secret Tunnel wrote:My gut says similar things

3rd.

Bell · Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:13 pm

Though, it's not gut.
It's just radio silence on MWB when he super scummed it up. A suggestion that turned out to be bad for town post-day plus muffin not really head bashing people in scum PT.

It feels sort of like the blame game though. So I don't like the reasoning much.

Bell · Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:18 pm

I love you both.

Bell · Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:04 pm

Um. That looks pretty S/S to me.

Bell · Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:05 pm

Going to be upset if Rem flips town after what I've said this game.

Back to

lurking

towning it up.

Bell · Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:07 pm

I feel like I'm just going to make myself look more stupid the more I talk.

But to me that just looks pretty staged. I can almost see the astroturf on that interaction.

Bell · Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:17 pm

Why'd you have to make me say that.
You weren't even asking me.
Now what am I going to do with how be stupid I be when he flips green.

Also, that is 1:1 how midwaybear interacts with his partner's, innocuous interactions before moving off like he's got places to be or something.
*poors salt on MWB's grave* <3.

Fuck why won't I shut up.

Bell · Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:24 am

Mush brain. What do.

Bell · Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:36 am

Yeah...Just gunna crawl back into bed I think.
Maybe ignore those last 2 posts or at least if you could pretend they never happened I would be grateful.

Bell · Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:44 am

Bell · Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:44 pm

In post 7366, Remilia Scarlet wrote:
In post 7365, morph the cat wrote:Do you feel like you got anything out of last night?
just aggravated.

going to be even moreso if this day goes to deadline w/ people basically prod dodging and going 'imma case remi'

like at least just have the fucking decency to just say 'poe / i hate your claim' instead of iso diving me and looking for whatever your confibias minds are capable of dredging up

this wasn't really directed at anyone in particular

Hey, you told me not to case you.

Bell · Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:39 pm

Are you guys sure you don’t want me to case rem.

Bell · Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:39 pm

That should pretty much clear my slot up

Bell · Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:47 pm

I am hearing him out.
I just don’t know what’s the point of people considering me to be scum when i’d Rather they spend their bandwidth elsewhere.
There’s enough from rem that I can make a case for town rem and scum rem in a way that would be hard to fake.

The only reason I haven’t is because i’m feeing down and Rem told me not to.

Bell · Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:53 pm

I’ll put it in spoilers so Town Rem can avoid having a stroke and scum Rem can nod along or throw his computer out the window for how bullshit my reasons are.

Bell · Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:16 pm

Spoiler: Morph and Bell Neighborhood

Okay I'm done for now. I'm tired. If you think I can fake this kind of thinking well, thanks for the vote of confidence.

Bell · Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:26 pm

I wouldn't bother.
I could have done better. Just as I was parsing and giving up on writing more for now. I would like to add that his reads shifts into giving a town read to half the town fit into having an idea of where his partners are now that RVS is over for the most part. Though it could just be a time issue on 1282. Or a normal clustering due to whatever reason some people suddenly cluster their thoughts and reads into one post.

I also didn't edit any of that and it's stream of consciousness. I usually would cut down some, but I felt it was important you see how I'm processing the game and Bork and why I'm leaning one way and not the other. I haven't mentioned a lot of this, because I never went back and iso'd Bork. Due to etc.

Bell · Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:30 pm

Pretty much I just feel like my brain is Jam and everything is more fuzzy than it would normally be at this point.

I'm not really playing how I should've.
But oh well. We're doing pretty good anyway.

Bell · Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:00 pm

No see that was the town bork section believe it or not. If I had the energy I would make a scum Bork section after finishing that.

Really don't think I chose well in regards to how I presented that case. Because I shouldn't have directly linked those posts but gave an overall narrative to his actions and play rather than that sort of running commentary. More the stuff on the bottom than the stuff on the top.

In a better, more engaged Bell head space I would be swimming in the narrative instead of just chugging along on reads and posts reactions.

@ST, I made a note about you in my PT regarding your break out desire to play scum well. I remembered from something you said in another thread. I believe the end of that line was that they probably would just roll town again and their hopes of being scum would be dashed.

Bell · Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:27 pm

...Sigh what I'm trying to say is that with more time and effort and a better understanding and memory for everything that went on in the game I would probably be more comfortable being concise where every minute of thought is condensed into something approaching a workable reason for someone being scum.

To me there are just points for and against Bork.
I think there are silences, weird read progressions, weird role mechanics that make Bork's role untenable.

I can see a scum bork world fairly clearly where you have someone who began the game by getting a feel for the game and hoping to get past your guard. Getting a feel for his partners by engaging with them with a tough veneer that results in short, controlled interactions, that they can't mess up until he has a better feel for their play. But never hard pushing them until the writing was on the wall. Who interacted quite differently with MWB than the rest of the playerlist. Who's vote hopped on Joyed, but hopped off easily with the excuse of hesitation or superseding his will to the majority than to push it. He never pushed a case this game in a way that made sense beyond the incorrect 420 interaction. His initial reads were sparse of reasons, seemingly gut town reads rather than the more case based Rem nose to the grind-stone conception I have of him who takes the questions he asks and does something with them. You can see it in how he initially reacts to joyed in a pretty townie manner...Aww crap I lost my string because I can't remember what he did next. I don't want to look I don't want to look let's just ASSUME, he peters out and I make the assumption as scum that he doesn't without at least pushing Joyed harder than he did.
Who reads Muffin as town for reasons that I can't remotely identify with and doesn't truly interact with muffin in a way that reads like it might have initially been some sort of false association trial in case he flipped later.

There's lots of stuff.

I also think that I could be wrong, because there are alternative explanations that aren't TOO out there. It could just be a town adjusting. It could be that the way RVS rolled out with a focus on him by you took him off his game so that only sparks of his town play occurred. He spent significantly more time engaging you than doing his own thing and that was unfortunate.

Sigh. Dunno why I wrote this extra bit.

Bell · Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:33 pm

I think April was correct and they just thought he was a power role.
There's something to be said about how Rem-scum might have behaved under the thought that it was either him or Tunnel who was going to be killed the next day based on their interactions.

Oh shit.

Bell · Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:36 pm

Well, that's not much of a revelation it's just a normal thought you can easily reach. I guess it just makes a little more sense post flips that if the alien was in their cross hairs they would be extra willing to send the Bomb out to space.

Bell · Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:37 pm

Just in case it was true.

Bell · Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:42 pm

I guess you could say that it feels like Bork's had a lot of anxiety this game and while he said it was town anxiety the anxiety seemed to generate pretty neatly into a scum mold of semi-disordered posts and approaches.

I sure do use a lot of words for no reason.

Bell · Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:45 pm

Er, why isn't this game a breeze?
I mean we're all putting a lot of our hearts and minds into this one. But we're having fairly good results.
But I don't think it was entirely due to complexity. I don't really have an explanation for it. But yeah. Almost page 300 here.

Bell · Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:48 pm

We should just flip him and find out FF.

Don't worry. It's just a game and he won't mind if he's scum or town. As long as you genuinely had good intentions as town.
Or probably even as scum.
It's not like you crossed a line or there's something horrible you did or said to him this game.
He'll forgive you, especially if you just blame it on Cabd.

Bell · Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:54 pm

Well for me, it's not that you didn't put it into words.
It's that you put it into insinuations that required a response because I care, which is effort.

When I asked you last time to just explain your thoughts, you said you worried about MWB and Tunnel, tunneling each other if they were both town. Which seemed like a little bit of a stretch in terms likely scenarios to be worrying about, but was not disturbing.

Bell · Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:55 pm

The initial mysterious sigh was disturbing!
We just smashed scums brains into the wall and there you were, worrying about weird scenarios!

Bell · Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:03 pm

Anxiety is a curse and a fun blessing if you enjoy thinking about stuff.

Bell · Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:04 pm

I just wish it didn't make us feel like crap.

Bell · Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:10 pm

I will begrudgingly join that wagon if I have to.
But I still like my scum read of Bork FTR and I say this as somebody who is maybe a bit too terrified of being wrong.

Bell · Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:12 pm

Also yeah. Maid.
Damnit. Why couldn't you be the hero we needed and win the game for us instead of just clearing the fog and forcing me to think.

Bell · Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:12 pm

I think I'm becoming one of those people that doesn't believe in mechanics as much as I believe in people.

Bell · Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:12 pm

^That's my actual answer.

Bell · Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:14 pm

I said that already.
Though, like I said pretty sure the hydra heads just disagreed and one was super proud with a dopamine rush and the other was just proud that they put town in a better position by being a magnet and surviving long enough to be pretty useful all things considered?

Bell · Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:15 pm

In post 7472, morph the cat wrote:It's amazing how as soon as we post on a given night, the thread comes alive.

But you can't ALL be scummoned.

Didn't want to shit up the thread anymore than I already have.

Bell · Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:17 pm

can't, it's basically that I don't want to feel bad like twice for sitting by while we miseliminate people so I'd rather feel bad once if I'm wrong and then reevaluate.

Bell · Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:18 pm

That was perhaps, a little TOO honest.

Bell · Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:22 pm

Well, you did say please.

I don't think I can though. It depends explicitly on how the role works within what elo is defined as given the alien role.

Bell · Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:23 pm

Let's say we're whittled down to five and one gets space cased.
We're at 4 people in the game and one out.
Do we eliminate Rem then?
If we wait and eliminate again another person gets space cased and we lose.

Bell · Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:30 pm

Also, I am aware that I haven't been following the role discussion as close as I should be.
It's just not because I'm scum. I'm just stretched to my limits.Please redirect me to the proper conclusion if I am wrong.

Bell · Sat Oct 24, 2020 4:55 pm

In post 7501, Remilia Scarlet wrote:just wanted to know where your head was

can we talk more about bell? his strategy seems to be like "let me stream of consciousness everything that comes to mind right now in the hope that people townread it"

mixed w/ stuff like 7452 which reads to me like just designed to focus you on soothing the potential emotional cost here of misflipping me

This is correct just change scum bell to town bell who wants to become that annoying town that just won’t be eliminated. I still fondly remember the salt MWB had when I said I was obvious town while being actually town while not being mechanically cleared. Sometimes being confident in your own towniness is its own reward.

Bell · Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:00 pm

In post 7493, Remilia Scarlet wrote:
In post 7443, Bell wrote:No see that was the town bork section believe it or not. If I had the energy I would make a scum Bork section after finishing that.
seems really odd to me that you'd put so much effort into a conclusion you're not really trying to advertise

whose benefit was 7437 for?

I think there are silences, weird read progressions, weird role mechanics that make Bork's role untenable.
Like if you really believe that why not just point to why

How do you point to a negative.
I think your interactions with MwB are scum interactions. I don’t think your reads have developed as much as they would if you were town and your read on muffin is extremely insane for town Bork.

Bell · Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:10 pm

Is your read on muffin really that you just agree with him and his thoughts a bunch? I can’t conceptualize how day 3 you have a read based on that premise.

Given the reasons you’ve stated for town reading muffin being based on vague agreeableness and not based on any direct interaction it’s very loose to me.

Bell · Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:21 pm

I suppose we disagree on the premise. Muffin has stated he does not like bad play and he may call it out or not tolerate it as scum just as easily as town especially post mistake when he doesn’t need to play against his win condition.

You can point in contrast to morph’s mistake and correction by muffin on joyed where he proactively stopped a possible mistake. The difference there is simply that if he didn’t say it, someone else would. So it’s a town cred race.

Bell · Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:22 pm

Condescending scum is not a rare quantity on MS.

Bell · Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:26 pm

My issue isn’t that it’s simple, it’s that you’re unusually comfortable with it especially while not taking into account things like him failing to mention mwb when he became extremely obvious scum. Or the night action Misrecommendation.

@7513: er would you like to clarify by asking muffin directly if that’s what he was doing or are you comfortable just knowing that’s what happened?

Bell · Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:28 pm

I dunno. It feels like rn you’re working backwards from knowing he’s town to pointing out reasons he’s town.
You’re probably right. He probably is town. I don’t disagree, I just think it’s you.

Bell · Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:34 pm

In post 7522, Remilia Scarlet wrote:
In post 7519, Bell wrote:It feels like rn you’re working backwards from knowing he’s town
what exactly is my motivation to do this w/ muffin vs morph who is a 1000% easier write-off to literally everyone

Well, that’s a false dilemma, since it would be important for scum you and even town you to navigate them both fairly carefully my guess was that you were creating a false trail for muffin as partner if you got killed earlier before men etc

Bell · Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:34 pm

Men = mwb

Bell · Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:37 pm

Why don’t you mind that Muffin thinks it’s just you and has stated as much?

Bell · Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:40 pm

Like i’m waffling with this interaction and I know that’s exactly what scum you would be hoping for and it’s like I don’t have reasons that are clicking into place that are a better narrative for a potential town but you seem so clear eyed. How you’re even talking to me is weird because you’re arguing rather than seemingly trying to read me.

It is, frankly beyond weird that not a single thing about muffin has pinged you.

Bell · Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:58 pm

Sigh.

Morph do bork’s reads develop this way normally where he just slaps down positions without going into detail without being pushed.
It doesn’t feel solvey to me.

You would have to ignore a significant number of my posts to think i’m scum this game, esp in regards to how mean I was to both joy and mwb pre and post flip given my nature.

Bell · Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:59 pm

^ this is what I think t should have looked like.
More detail, more solve. Less placing bets down on the table and seeing what happens.

Bell · Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:06 pm

not making sense isn’t actually scummy for me.

Answering questions is secondary to me than proactively trying to understand and solve.
ESP. Because my experience with answering people’s questions is that it doesn’t matter and doesn’t change their positions as town and doesn’t change their positions as scum either.

Bell · Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:14 pm

No I just think you’d have more doubts if you weren’t scum. /:

Sorry if i’m being annoying I don’t mean to be.

Bell · Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:17 pm

It means when i’m Talking to you the most important thing to me is not answering your questions but understanding you and deciding whether you’re town or not.

If I think you’re town and you actually are usually what I end up having to do is drag them across the finish line because it’s already too late with their read of me. I’m tired so I don’t wish to write out the other 3 permutations of this scenario.

Bell · Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:41 am

In post 7546, Remilia Scarlet wrote:
In post 7543, Bell wrote:No I just think you’d have more doubts if you weren’t scum. /:
I understand this sentiment as a general principle. Obviously I don't have to read someone i know isn't on my team.

I feel like you're just kind of erroneously applying it to a situation because you don't agree with the conclusion and I'm trying to figure out why

Bell · Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:52 pm

In post 7551, Secret Tunnel wrote:I’m not in the mental state to be here tonight, I’m sorry. I’ll see if I am tomorrow. Really bad day.

*back pat*

Bell · Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:55 pm

Could I get a Cabd read on Bork and Muffin.
I don't think that the emotional line on Bork is quite right given I think he is staying within the line emotionally of what he finds morally acceptable play and I agree with that evaluation as to the morally acceptable play if I were scum in his shoes.

Bell · Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:40 pm

Aight FF.
Do you think I'm town still?

Bell · Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:40 pm

I'm not against a muffin wagon as stated.
This is more of an expediency and read vote.

Bell · Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:44 pm

So cabd is scum reading me?

Bell · Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:45 pm

I'm just going to assume this means you still think it's Bork but are deferring to FF.

Bell · Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:46 pm

I could also make a very long self-meta case on why I'm town this game if you'd like.

Bell · Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:48 pm

k. Game probably won't even make it far enough to matter/I'll get nked.

Bell · Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:49 pm

Do you want me to vote muffin?
I will if you want.
I'm okay with sheeping I can be wrong.

Bell · Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:36 pm

After april/Bulge I figure it's either me or you for nks.

I'll keep voting my heart then.

Bell · Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:37 pm

Might have been a scum slip that Bork said that he feels the alien is in the NAR block slot because he'd be in the neighborhood and April would be dead otherwise.

Bell · Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:38 pm

Or it could have just been his honest opinion. lol.

Bell · Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:57 pm

I forgot they existed.

Bell · Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:24 pm

Not against this plan. Probably works.

Bell · Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:19 am

Aight, we can take the scenic route.

VOTE: Muffin

Bell · Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:20 am

gg fellas.
Solid stuff.
Would drug trip with again.

Bell · Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:31 am

Consider my brain turned off unless someone really thinks I should turn it back on again.

Bell · Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:10 pm

In post 7588, Remilia Scarlet wrote:
In post 7553, Bell wrote:Could I get a Cabd read on Bork and Muffin.
I don't think that the emotional line on Bork is quite right given I think he is staying within the line emotionally of what he finds morally acceptable play and I agree with that evaluation as to the morally acceptable play if I were scum in his shoes.
dude this is some weak ass shit

think he is staying within the line emotionally of what he finds morally acceptable play
this is my stance on literally everything in every game ever

Not sure what morally acceptable means in this context or why it's somehow alignment indicative

>.> scum try to win arguments. Town try to solve.

Bell · Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:11 pm

Just go with muffin’s plan dude.

Bell · Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:11 pm

You can hammer me in elo.

Bell · Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:17 pm

In post 7597, Remilia Scarlet wrote:scum repeat rhetoric and dodge (and hey, not only scum do this, but you know that)

VOTE: bell

I thought you got a revive and mulligan.

If you get a revive and mulligan you’re not an alien.

Bell · Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:18 pm

Presumably morph would vote me with you being confirmed town and unless I’m mistaken, that would mean you would hammer me.

Bell · Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:24 pm

I’m not even going to explain the emotional resonance failure that rem has here and how he’d be more relaxed and thinking about how to win rather than this short sighted shit.

Bell · Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:30 pm

In post 7604, Remilia Scarlet wrote:
In post 7602, Secret Tunnel wrote:I frankly think IV is in a similar boat? He’s just latching on to his familiar faces (much like we all are) and bell happens to be one of them
i mean he literally said "i think you're more town than I am"; I feel like you should have something more than "vague meta" backing it up

This is the exact same line of attack mwb tried to use.

Bell · Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:31 pm

In post 7576, zMuffinMan wrote:i realised this game's a chore to post in and i don't really care about it all that much since it's basically autopilot here with a single town read here

so just bet the game on bell and go like me -> noddy derp hydra -> fferycabd hammers bork to end the game

it's prob still bork though

stop wasting so many pages talking about nothing and just get it over with

Bell · Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:33 pm

Bork, you silly.

Bell · Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:35 pm

You’re a wooden man, But I love you for that.

Bell · Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:42 pm

...seriously?

Bell · Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:44 pm

I am disappoint.

Bell · Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:47 pm

Just go with muffins plan.

You’re single handedly making this difficult because you’re being easily emotionally manipulated by a transparent scum bork.

Maybe I am tunneled but there’s just no reason for this.

Muffin > St > Bork > Bell.

Literally handing this game to you on a platter if you’re scum or town and you’re just fidgeting over there.
Like we’re already in elo.

Bell · Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:48 pm

Nacho can we speed up the night phases if we all ask nicely?

Bell · Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:50 pm

We’re watching a brain dead film at this point we worked hard and now it’s vacation time.

Bell · Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:51 pm

Oh yeah. I didn’t realize that. Lmao.

Bell · Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:52 pm

Well it’s still correct, and if you’re town you should go with it.

Bell · Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:54 pm

I do not care.
Wooden man.

Bell · Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:58 pm

Do I really have to play the pressure game with you cabd, when I’ve been extremely upfront this day phase?

Bell · Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:01 pm

Bet the game on me, I won’t let you down*unless you’re scum* in which case, I’m sorry.

Bell · Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:03 pm

It’s gentle ribbing.
But I see and understand and apologize.

Bell · Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:03 pm

*meant to be

Bell · Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:05 pm

I’m just out of patience.
I want a town win and I’m okay chilling and doing this the safe way.

Bell · Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:10 pm

Even IV has meta cleared me already.
Muffin literally bet the game on me.

There’s a page worth of interactions with joyed and mwb that distinctly point to me not being partners with either of them.

Bell · Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:10 pm

I’m awkward asf scum.