[Standard] Survivor: Know Your Enemies (Summer wins!)

For large social games such as Survivor where the primary mechanic is social interaction.
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Post Post #123 (isolation #0) » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:47 am

Post by Aristophanes »

I have read what is here thus far but have not checked any links and while I have some thoughts formulated they will have to wait for a the next chance I get to sit down and respond properly.

But I feel like, unlike Tris, I have not yet lost this and will continue to go out swinging.

I honestly believe that I outplayed Summer in this game. It was my plays that kept her here in the round where she was vulnerable. It was due in large part to my social crafting that I had the moments to seize, it was those moments that let me advance and allowed me to pull a friend and ally to FTC.

Unlike what Summer stated in her opening statements, I do not believe I was at all dependent upon her. We worked as allies, but it was never her that saved me but I who saved her.

I will be addressing everytone who posts here, and if you have questions, even onees you do not believe will change your final vote, I would still be happy to answer them.
*Looks in Skrew's Direction*

Anyway, that is all for now.
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Post Post #131 (isolation #1) » Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:46 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 112, Haschel Cedricson wrote:Congrats, everyone, on making FTC. That is a big accomplishment and you all should be proud.

Making FTC is completely different from WINNING FTC, though, as two of you are about to find out. And more specifically, I mean "as Ari and Tris are about to find out." Normally I would tell you two that you're playing for second, but that would require either of you to peel off a single vote and even that feat is probably going to be an uphill battle.
Thank you Haschel.
As I said, I'm really excited to be here! I think I could have been here in any combination of personages I chose in all honesty, as I was offered it by so many people due to the perception that I would roll over and take it. I think I've shown that is not my intention at all.

I honestly thought this would be a time for me to show off my gameplay ability, but it seems everything I did has been attributed to Summer despite that being simply untrue.
I appreciate that she wove a great story, but she neglected to mention how heavily it relied on my play. And of course she would craft a story where I was dependent upon her, but I never was. I chose to be here with her of my own volition and if that is my downfall, then so be it.
Ari, when I said an FTC of you/me/Tris was the only one that any of us three had a chance of winning, that wasn't part of some scheme. That was the truth. So your speech explains
what
you did but is laughably short on answers for
why
those moves were good ideas that benefited you.
As I mentioned in the speech, I played in order to get myself and my allies to the end. I played to win as a cohesive unit rather than as an individual. I played my own game to get here and my allies were dependent upon me. Had I turned at any moment it would have ended up like the round in which you were eliminated, as I held that power.

I made these plays because I thought that a social game where I created the environment I wanted in each vote was far more impressive than any other. I thought getting my allies here was the best usage of that power. It appears I was mistaken.
Tris, you played a decent game. It was also a flawed game, though, and Jess played the closest thing to a perfect game we've seen in a long time. I'm sorry Ari ruined your chances at having a shot of victory; you didn't deserve that.

I have no questions at this time. Congrats on your victory, Jess.
Tris, I am sorry if you perceive this game as lost and even more sorry if you believe it was at my hand.

I do not see how Summer played a perfect game, however. I was the one who got her here. I was the one who decided she lived. Honestly, and with no ill-feelings in any way, I do not understand how my independent choices to bring an ally to FTC gives them the credit over myself. It simply baffles me that I am seen as a Pawn to Summer's game here. Because I was not by any means her pawn. I showed you the facts of that, however it was not enough. I am unsure how else to show it to you, but I will try.
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Post Post #132 (isolation #2) » Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:48 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 116, Awoo wrote:I am!
In post 117, Awoo wrote:Voting for!
In post 118, Awoo wrote:Summer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Awoo be like:
Image
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Post Post #133 (isolation #3) » Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:52 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 119, SleepyKrew wrote:I've got a few questions but they're highly unlikely to affect my vote.
As I say, I would love for you to ask them.

If you wait until post-game, I suppose I don't mind.

But Skrew, Summer did not play me in this game and I chose to make every move I made. I was not even consulting Summer for most of them other than to tell her where we were at and what we were doing. She did not control me. She did not control the game. I did.
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Post Post #134 (isolation #4) » Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:40 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 120, Malkon05 wrote:https://vocaroo.com/19406hh0jb1E

Listen to the intro, make sure you are in a good headspace before listening to my questions.

Tris' question begins at 00:50

Ari's questioning begins at 01:58

Summer's questioning begins at 15:10


Little Ending that starts at 20:36

Might have used the wrong word. I meant to say that I was going to vote fairly rather than "objectively" I think that's an incorrect use of a word, so this is me correcting that.

Interested to hear your responses.
I've been bracing for this since I decided on the vote, but I don't know if I will ever be ready for it.

Sorry, yes the video was a reading of the speech in case that was an easier option for people in the jury and in order to breathe a little character into my words.
It was probably unnecessary but I hope it increased the availability of my speech for those who might have found it difficult to parse on paper.
I put that into the description of the video, I'm sorry if it was misleading.

Malkon, I absolutely played my game with the goal of having you and Summer at the end with me. I really did want that after the Awoo elimination, and that is why I saved you so many times in this game. But when it got to the final 4 I looked at the numbers and realized that the votes were going to split against me in the case of Ari/Malkon/Summer. You would have taken just about every vote I had a possible chance at winning, with Summer as a likely second, and myself coming in third every time. The only chance was the "floater/unknown" votes, and they were far less floaty than they appeared. I realized I might retain 1-2 votes at most in this split. Tris allows me, or so was the theory, to argue my strengths 1v1 with Summer. It's not that Tris didn't play a good game, but Tris didn't win a game-winning game. I feel like I did, but that the chance would never be able to come to fruition with you here next to me.

I think I did make a misstep here, in that my goals this game were to keep allies and get them to the end and I betrayed that goal by voting you out. I do not think I made a misstep in taking you out at this point however from a gameplay perspective. Perhaps my greatest misstep was not taking the chance to eliminate Summer, but that was done in order to show my strength in play. It was done in order to show my abilities and my dedication to my allies. It was done to further my case. Yet it appears to have somehow destroyed it.

As for not looking at your source materials, I would not have had the time to do that and I told you as much. I trusted what you were saying. I did not dismiss it or dismiss you. I gave it a lot of thought. I believe I made the right choice as I would not have won the split-vote option. I did not believe I was a non-threat. I suppose that also was incorrect.

In F5 I discounted Tris as an option in order to push my agenda. I could have done it sooner, but I did not believe a Tris elimination was the right choice at that time. I had to capitulate eventually. I did consider Summer, by the way. My vote was on her for the majority of that round. But I thought finding a way to keep her was a better play and I made it.

I don't have much to say about the middle portion other than an apology for overstating the significance of the Espeonage vote's effect on our relationship and a thank you for acknowledging that I mas in fact making the calls for a lot of the game.

Jess is a very social player, but it did not give her the power in this game. I should have taken her out, this is obvious.
I thought Summer was voting with me, not vice versa.

But thank you for the kind and critical words.

*breathing intensifies*


FYI I do not think that a Social Game is a "Happy, Nice game."
I thought I played a socially strategic game and I thought I did play it better than either you or Summer.
But as you say, Perception is everything.

I guess my main pitfall was keeping Summer in this game, and if I had eliminated her at F5 perhaps I could have won this game.
I don't know that theoreticals help here though, so thanks for your efforts to make me a better player next time I suppose.


Alright, my jaw is clenched so hard my teeth hurt now.
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Post Post #135 (isolation #5) » Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:42 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

By the way, D3f, I have not forgotten or overlooked you, but I need to do some homework in order to answer that and it is almost 2am so it will be tomorrow that I address it.
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Post Post #136 (isolation #6) » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:11 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 121, Malkon05 wrote:https://vocaroo.com/1cBzhwoFX6mh

This is for everyone and it's more meant to be a little personal, less like...negative approach to questioning.
What is something I have overcome to be here?

I honestly don't know what to say here.
I have a lot of trouble with the idea of manipulating friends and it plays into my willingness to commit to an alliance early on and stick with it no matter what. But I guess that is more of an answer as to why Summer is here than for why I am :roll:

I suppose a better answer is that I have never in my life had good self esteem. I have had issues with it, mostly due to the fact that I have a cleft lip and was often ostracized as a kid. This has shaped the Aristophanes you know and love, because I now have very different goalposts for positivity and acceptance than a lot of people do.
In this game, I pushed a lot of that aside in order to play what I thought was a fantastically socially manipulative game without worrying about who I would hurt with my play. And that was so tough at so many times. If you look back at my confessionals, you'll see me break down do many times after making these moves. It was so hard for me to be here and to play the way I played and to do what I did to get me to the finale of this game. Finding out that it was all for naught is really tough, and I already considered a small siteflake after this game finishes to run away from it all, regroup, and return to the positive and friendly person I aspire to be. I will not be doing that, but the thought crossed my mind heavily because this game has weighed on my so heavily.

Making the final argument for myself really the finisher of all of this. It took so much for me to make that argument for myself. I undoubtedly overdid it, but I felt like I not only had to explain why I deserved to win, which I was not joking about being extremely uncomfortable with doing, but also had to address everything in order to show why and how it was a game move and not a personal one, because it really weighs on my mind that this game may change relationships I have with people. That it may effect the visage of Aristophanes that I have put so much work into on this site. That it might lose me people or stunt relationships that otherwise could have prospered.

But I did it all and I am here, so yay me amirite!
:(


As for favourite animals, I have had mine shift a lot of late but there is a common theme that runs among them, and that is their ability to survive.

Penguins have been a favourite for years, and they are amazing creatures! They survive in an absolutely extreme environment and thrive there despite the long and arduous journeys they must undertake in order to do so. Their males share the burden of nurturing the eggs and younglings. They give pebbles as tokens of love to their prospective mates. I love all of that!

Tardigrades are absolute beasts when it comes to the Extremophile game and I think they are fantastic! They can survive in temperatures too hot and/or cold for most other creatures. They can be dehydrated and return to life some time later. They can survive the vacuum of space (at least for a short time). These guys will survive anywhere!

Axolotls are the cutest things and they can regenerate parts of their bodies, including their brains! While I make no claims to that sort of thing, their sheer ability to survive despite basically being chopped in half is absolutely astounding!

Also all three of these creatures are adorable <3

Anyway, I relate to them because I will go to any length necessary to adapt to a new situation and to survive it. I will take anything in stride and not let it break me. I can weather just about any storm that comes my way. And I think that is why I love them!
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Post Post #137 (isolation #7) » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:16 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

I have to work in a few hours and got minimal sleep last night so I could do opening statements.

I need to at least get a little more tonight so I can be present for you all at the reveal.

So I know I have outstanding questions from D3f and Haschel and I will address both, and any others that arise while I am away, tomorrow.

I realize there are deadlines at work and will have things in before then.
I accept that this is likely in vain at this point, but I will not give up in giving this my best effort and giving me my best chance.

Sorry my game was played such that you thought I was throwing. I hope I have shown you that it was not the case.
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Post Post #141 (isolation #8) » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:47 am

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 124, Haschel Cedricson wrote: Ari, saving Jess is only a credit to your game if you explain why it was better than your other options. As it stands, it looks like you saved Jess because she fooled you into thinking that advanced your game and not hers.
I brought Jess to F3 out of loyalty to my allies. I would have brought Awoo here as well if they had made it far enough that I could make that choice. I would have lost to them, as I am losing now, I suppose. I can accept the defeat, I just legitimately thought that my saving an ally despite knowing she was strong, that my honouring an alliance that started in the budding points of the game, that my ability to make this game what *I* wanted it to be rather than relying on others to get here or relying on challenge wins to get here, well I thought that would all speak to my abilities and to a winning strategy in showing how I had outplayed her here. I guess I was wrong.
For the most part the jury is not salty with you at all, Ari. We are
extremely
confused by your play, though. In Ponderosa we had a serious discussion about whether or not you were breaking the second rule of the game by obviously not playing to win yourself but to help a friend win. We had this discussion because
literally none of us thought there was any reasonable way you thought your game was better than Summer's.
When Malkon came and joined us and told us you actually thought this, it kind of broke our brains a little. So I guess my question is, why did you not see what everybody on the jury saw?
I don't exactly know how to answer this. The lead up is disheartening, though it is nice to know there isn't too much salt there. (I'm sure a lot of it is from yourself as you made that evident in your exiting speech.)

It was Socrates who was known for his knowledge theory, not Aristophanes, but I'll give it a go.

I guess the reason I didn't see what you all saw is because I thought the jury would valuen the gameplay aspect of my game and the power I weilded. I had that power separately from Summer and used it to create an endgame I was happy with. I made the choices and the moves at so many points in this game. I overestimated the effect it would have on your votes.
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Post Post #145 (isolation #9) » Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:32 am

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 142, Pine wrote:
Summer
- You are the standout winner here.

Image

Frankly, I think the play of the game might be the one that isn't really being talked about - eliminating SleepyKrew over Malkon at F5. F5 was the last point where you could really guarantee an elimination, as F4 is always dicey - either an immunity win or a single vote throwing you into a firemaking tie could put someone in FTC who you don't want to face. I think it speaks volumes about your strategic thinking that you didn't use the opportunity to eliminate obvious rival Malkon (though you managed it at F4 anyway). Instead, in the last potentially-predictable round, you took out Skrew, who was superficially weaker. I didn't see it at first, and was stunned and confused when you removed him. I thought it was a blunder, an unforced error - surely your partner in crime, the individual with the best resume of moves (aside from yourself) was the threat? I can't find the receipts, so it was likely in voice, but I think it was Haschel who pointed out that in a Summer-Malkon FTC, you would have had the distinct advantage because your games were so similar and intertwined that the discussion would be "who played it best." In that framework, you'd have been fighting from the high ground. In contrast, Skrew would have brought an entirely different strategy, played almost flawlessly, and the "Aggressive Obvious" might actually lose to "Aggressive Subtle". In the end it didn't matter, as you removed both late-game rivals with impunity.

All hail the queen!
At the risk of sounding bitter here, I have to point out that this was my move, not Summer's.

Fullstop.

Summer had Malkon targeted and won Tris over, that is true.
Malkon came to me and we decided on Tris, that is also true.
But I was the one who made the play for Skrew. It was my play and my risk, not Summer's.

You can hail the queen all you like. She obviously deserves it. But not for this play.
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Post Post #146 (isolation #10) » Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:03 am

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 142, Pine wrote:
Aristophanes
- Hey buddy. You know I love you, right? This is going to be more than a little blunt, and I wanted to establish that before I get going.
Yes, I do.
But thank you for preempting it with this.
I have one core question, though with some variety in presentation:

What in the name of all things holy made you think you could beat Summer?


If there is a single argument for why you cannot win Survivor: Know Your Enemy, it is because you
did not know your enemy
. The mere fact that she is sitting next to you here speaks of a catastrophic error in judgment on your part. If you had asked twelve players at merge who the biggest single threat was, I'd bet you nine or ten would have named Summer. By the time I joined the jury, it was unanimous. Going into F6, she was the prohibitive favorite. At F5, when there was no immunity,
not a single jury member
thought it was going to be anyone but Summer going home. She was
that
obvious a threat. To hear that you not only didn't recognize her as a threat but actively worked to bring her to FTC...it's a critical misstep. Everything else you did (and you made a surprisingly comprehensive argument) pales in comparison to that single point of failure. I can get behind standing by allies even as they go down, yes. I can also get behind allies who are on similar footing making a "may the best person win in FTC" agreement. That's what Malkon and I had discussed. If you'd come in here saying that's what you thought was going on, I'd be a lot more sympathetic, but it's not the case.
I thought Summer and I would be splitting votes here. But coming into FTC and saying "we're both pretty great" isn't how to present oneself and thus I went all in on a strong showing of my abilities.

Thank you for recognizing my arguments. I put a lot of work into that. It's really sad that one misstep can make all of it worthless.

I made my argument and have clarified why I thought I could beat her. I'm not going to reiterate an obviously flawed stance.
So here are my questions:

What were Summer's strengths?
Summer is a Challenge Beast with a strong social game.


What were your strengths?
I used my influence to socially manipulate the game.


Where did you think she was weak?
I believe she was weak whenever there was no challenge protection, so mostly F5.


Where you think you were strong?
I assume that is supposed to be weak in the question.

I was weak in that I underestimated her threat level in this game despite warnings. In the first few days of the game I messaged Tbone to warn him about Summer's social game based on early observations. I saw her survive alone on Delhi, etc. I was just too dumb to take that seriously.


At which point(s) did you feel she lacked agency?
The Espe vote. My gameplay and moves for most of the game. Delhi (but only for a hot second).


At which point(s) did you feel you lacked agency?
El Paso overall, Tbone and Awoo's eliminations. And apparently here.


What efforts did you each take to recover from errors?
i suppose we both turned onto an offensive in order to recover from things. Rather than approaching people feeling weak, I took the vote where I was an outlier and used it to make and strengthen bonds and alliances. Summer made sure to win the challenge that followed.
I'm asking you these questions not in an effort to decide my vote - that's pretty much a foregone conclusion at this point. What I'm looking for is analysis so we can both improve. You were out of this when you took a pass on Haschel's goat brigade deal. Hell, you might have recovered even then if you'd lead the charge against Summer at 5 and either Malkon or Skrew at 4. Your best chance was indeed an FTC consisting of the goat brigade. You might even have won against Skrew or Malkon with the right late-game moves. I suspect that part of what led you to reject that lifeline was not wanting to be characterized that way. Well...sorry, but it happened.
I turned on the goat brigade and kept Jess at F5 because I believed not only that I could win this, but that doing either of these would betray the core strengths of my game.

I don't know if it's worse to be a Goat or to willingly make choices that ended one's chances of winning.
But I don't believe I was a goat, so...awesome.
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Post Post #147 (isolation #11) » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:58 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 114, D3f3nd3r wrote:Hey you three,

While my vote is likely decided coming into FTC, I do have a question I'd like to ask Tris and Ari, who are both in fairly similar positions in terms of their experience playing Survivor on here. And I suppose Jess should probably answer too!

I'm in the unique position of having been involved in all three of your first games. Tris, my vote was all you had against you when I idoled you out in PD. Ari, on the other hand, I was the only person
not
to write your name down at your first and only tribal in Civ. Jess, we played Medevac together but I don't really have any sort of fun anecdote about how you and our tribe voted me out unanimously at our first tribal.

The question is this: What did you do differently between this game and the first game you played? I would ideally like for you to hit on all three sides of Haschel's notorious FTC Triangle: strategic, social, and structural aspects to your game. (Please see the opening post of each thread in this subforum if you're unsure of what exactly these categories mean.)

I strongly suggest that you do not rehash your opening statement. Old Zetaboards forums are still technically accessible (dig through your messages for the forum link, then go to the forum, click Login, then click the orange text for "Proceed to legacy forum account login here", and enter your login information), so you should consider looking at your respective source material before trying to answer!
That is a very cool and unique position to be in, D3f3nd3r!

Let's see how I played differently in the context of this Triangle.
I screwed something up when trying to login as a legacy account and can not see my messages, so I apologize that this will be from memory. I did try to get in and I do acknowledge that my memory is absolute shite. Like by the time we reached F6 I had already forgotten most of the details about the Merge vote on Mist, that's how bad it is. Making a comprehensive Opening Statement was so hard because I literally forgot so much of what happened and had to research my own posts to figure out what I had done and why I had done it. Luckily I logged my intentions rather well throughout the game. #OverlyVerboseAri But yeah, all of this is to say I'll do what I can here and I am very sorry for any inconsistencies.
Strategic wrote:A big part of this game is using the right strategy to make it to the end. Sometimes you have to make #BigMoves, or know when the time is right not not make a move. You have to advance your game in a manner that leaves you a path for the future.
Well, in Civvivor, I was entirely unsure how to make moves. I did not have any awareness of what was going on across the tribe and was therefore unable to see past the few things I did know.

In this game I set myself up to be in the know and to be in control. I argued this heavily in my OS so I am unsure what to add. I honestly believe that I was the puppet master of this game, despite the credit going to Summer here for moves that I was clearly in control of. As Malkon said, perception is everything. I did not garner the perception that I was in control, therefore I guess I wasn't.
Social wrote:Anderson always says that I have the social skills of a Spider. His intelligence entertains me every day, how does he not know that a Spider has amazing social skills.

The real question is how did you spin your web to be connected to all the other players and use your social skills to your advantage?
It's not good enough to be able to get to the end if you've burned all your bridges along the way.
I'll keep the bolded in mind in the future.

I had 0 social game in Civvivor.
Actually, that's not true. I lacked the understanding of what was expected and did not have the time to commit to it. When I did, I focused on few relationships rather than extending my social web and I played to a gimmick, unsure of how to play an anonymous game otherwise.

I was obviously social as hell here and I believe I used that to set the stage for where I'm at now. The props are just all in the wrong spots I suppose.
Structural wrote:It's not enough to say why you deserve to win Survivor; the Jury is deciding who deserves to specifically win Survivor PD. In addition to the 20 other players in this game, each of you had to deal with the structure of the game itself. Challenges, mechanics, swaps, items, pacing, and other factors that did not directly come from the other players all affected your journey here.
I mean, I am not a challenge winner. I am not fast. I am not clever. I am not going to win based on game mechanics and structure. I didn't understand how to play around that issue in Civvivor. I did that here, however. I remained a strong player despite being unable to win immunity. I stayed close to people who could win those things in order to have numbers on my side. I discounted the importance of this aspect of the game, however, as it is one that I have never been good at and never will be.

Sorry that was a bit general, I'm losing a bit of steam in here. Arguing against something that has already been decided is pointless, but I am going to keep it up. It's just a bit more taxing than I had imagined it would be.
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Post Post #149 (isolation #12) » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:51 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 140, SleepyKrew wrote:Well Ari has asked for questions. Summer and tris, I'll ask you questions as well, but don't feel obligated to answer them. Some of these questions are going to be for the sake of my own ego. Also some of them aren't questions. Some stuff may have been answered already; sorry if that's the case.

I'd love to hear more about the TC where Cheery Dog went. Did people aside from myself tell you that you were a potential target? What work did you do to make sure Cheery went?


Why did you try to lie to D3f when he got voted out, when everyone else was honest about the vote with him?
I was not aware that D3f knew he was going out until he told me as much. I then apologized and had a real chat with him.
What I don't understand is why everyone told D3f that he was going out. What was gained by that? What did I miss?


For the Pine vote, did you know in advance about the 4-3-2? If so, were you part of the planning for it? How do you think the round would've gone if you didn't make the group with Pine? Do you feel like the 'recruitment' process was botched?
I did indeed know about the 4-3-2 and was a part of the planning process for it.
I think it would have been far tougher to convince people like yourself to vote that way if the group had not formed, and it was a very convenient jump-off point for things with a few players. I think Pine would have been eliminated regardless because I was putting in the legwork to make it happen and we merely would have had to be less fancy with it.
The recruitment process was a smashing success, wasn't it? I did what I wanted to do with it and moved on. I did contemplate working with that group when it was presented, actually. I contemplated not saying Pine and making this an actual working group that could have gone a distance together. It may have been a misplay in hindsight as well, as it would have cut a tie with summer and maybe could have allowed me to wrangle even a single vote off of her here. But instead I siezed the moment and used it to further my goals of having the Trilliums together in FTC.


At the time of the Awoo vote, what was your endgame plan? At what point did you decide you wanted to go to FTC with Summer and Malkon? Why couldn't you tell Awoo about the vote? Why do you think this vote happened outside of your control, and why couldn't you do anything about it?
This is a bit of a complex one and goes back to why I didn't tell D3f, or anyone else for that matter other than Malkon, that they were the vote. I had wanted Summer and Awoo until Awoo was eliminated. Malkon had been my backup since the beginning of Florence and took up that role when we rejoined forces in voting out Espe. Most of these votes I stayed quiet about to the votee because I knew there was a chance of Idols or of callouts or un unpleasant breakdowns in the tribe chat and I wanted to avoid that. It had happened with kdowns. It happened with D3f. This was not the main reason here, however. I was told by one singular player, Summer, that Awoo was going home. I knew Awoo didn't have an idol and that none were floating around to be used on him. I knew it was a done deal. If I told him and it leaked, I feared it would hurt Summer's game, so as an Ally and as a Friend, not as a Goat (despite what I know you all will say), I did not tell Awoo. I tried to push an alternate vote without outing that I was told and it failed. I tried to do everything I could while still protecting the other third of my D1 F3 alliance and was unsuccessful. The pushback was obvious and was strong, so I accepted that I was at the mercy of the tribe and did what I could to plan for the other side a while bracing for the shittiest feeling I had to encounter for the majority of the game.


Why do you think Haschel would've won a you/Haschel/tris FTC? Why couldn't you let Malkon get voted that round?
Haschel had the perception of being the best player at the time in my head. He had clung on despite the deck being stacked against him. He was the founder of the Goats. He would have orchestrated the entire game from then on, taking away my one solid pitch. I knew I could not beat Haschel in this scenario, and neither could Tris. I did not want Malkon to go here because I had the notion that I was keeping him to the end strong in my head still.

Actually, this is a bit of a change of paceon things but Malkon, if you are reading this still, I am very sorry. I told you time after time that I would take you to the end. I honestly meant it. And then when the time came to do so,I turned my back on you.
It was wrong of me. It betrayed my core goal this game. It was a bad play personally and apparently strategically.

I'm sorry.


Why was I such a big threat? How did you convince Summer to vote me? Why did you not include Malkon or tris?
You had played a really good game, Skrew. As I already mentioned, I always felt like you had a motive and a strategy behind everything you did. I always felt like you understood something I didn't. I also looked at the Jury and thought you had a far more likely chance than I to win their favour.
If only I had been this critical of Jess I suppose.
I did not include Malkon or Tris because it really was a last minute realization and vote switch. I could have, they were online, but I always feared getting too many people involved in anything this entire game and thus played it close to my chest.


At what point did you decide to cut Malkon? What made you change your mind?
In the F5?
I had my vote on every single player at various times in that TC. I first had it on Summer as I thought it was a lost cause. I then switched onto Tris when Malkon agreed that it was the vote. I had it on Malkon when I decided not to fight against an ally, Jess, but I was very close to forcing a tie there to keep him. I considered it heavily. I then saw where all the votes were and decided to make the big dumb move that resulted in your boot.
I was so worried about keeping my allies I didn't consider how it could be beneficial to me to do so. I guess I should have left my vote on Jess.


At one point in the game, you told me that you didn't think you could win, and that you were happy going to the end and losing to a friend. Was that bullshit?
Skrew, that was 0% bullshit. I did not think I could win this game at that point. You and Haschel gave me the confidence to consider an FTC where I had a chance at winning, and despite throwing away my best chance at it in disbanding the Goats, I thought I finally had a chance and played a better, harder game from that point on.

And I know that my demeanour here looks like that wasn't a true statement. I get that I am taking this a bit harshly. I was warned this would not be an easy session, and those who told me this were correct. However I am very glad to see that my Ally who I got here is winning the game! I just have to get through the stress and emotion of having the hope I found when I considered victory a possibility pulled out from under me.


Are you willing to go in-depth about how you think a you/Summer/Malkon FTC would break down vs this one?
I can indeed do this for you!

Summer - Espe, Tris, Skrew
Ari - Awoo, DK
Malkon - D3f, Pine, Haschel

vs

Summer - Espe, Skrew, Pine
Ari - Awoo, DK, D3f, Malkon
Tris - Haschel

I would explain more but I am exhausted by these theoreticals that I was both wrong about and will never be able to be tested or really considered as they have already been proven not to be viable.


What's your favorite Pokemon?
I actually went into this a few times in my Confessional!

My favourite evolutionary line is Magikarp -> Gyarados.

I adore the story of the fish that takes a lot of work, so much time and effort, and a real investment of time and caring to become an absolute powerhouse! A beast! And one of the coolest designs among Gen 1. Gyarados has always been my favourite, but the little magikarp is never forgotten, and neither is the time invested in it to pave the way for the impressive creature it becomes.

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Post Post #150 (isolation #13) » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:01 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 148, Espeonage wrote:@tris and ari: Why was Malkon or Jess not eliminated over Skrew? Bc the moment Skrew went at that TC the game was over for you two.

Like I am only asking a question out of politeness. This vote has been locked since Awoo left the game. The tier list since awoo for ftc has been Jess > Malkon > Me > People who can't win if any of those three make it to ftc. Like if there was an idol play that would be fine. But voting out Skrew was game throwing and game throwing is not voteworthy in FTC.
That was all me and I've been trying to take proper credit for a while now.

Maybe I shouldn't be.

I voted skrew in an active effort to keep those two as I thought my loyalty was another aspect of my game that could be sold to the jury.

I was wrong.

So be it.
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Post Post #151 (isolation #14) » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:15 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 144, Haschel Cedricson wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:I brought Jess to F3 out of loyalty to my allies. I would have brought Awoo here as well if they had made it far enough that I could make that choice. I would have lost to them, as I am losing now, I suppose. I can accept the defeat, I just legitimately thought that my saving an ally despite knowing she was strong, that my honouring an alliance that started in the budding points of the game, that my ability to make this game what *I* wanted it to be rather than relying on others to get here or relying on challenge wins to get here, well I thought that would all speak to my abilities and to a winning strategy in showing how I had outplayed her here. I guess I was wrong.
Using my third and final post to reply to this. I want you to know that I understand this thinking and in fact have used it myself in #2016 when I won the FIC and chose to not betray my ally Ted Cruz, bringing him to FTC where he made me look like a chump instead of the game's uber-goat Hillary Clinton. Loyalty IS a valuable part of Survivor, and in fact it often can be a crucial part of jury management. So yeah, I completely understand why this is a frustrating FTC for you because I know how much it sucks when something you planned to be the capstone of your game turns out to be a surprise lodestone around your neck.

LSGs on MS tend to not be the friendliest to new players who don't know the expectations the community has of them; most games have the early boots littered with players who didn't PM enough or thought that "keeping the starting tribe strong" was the most important thing. There have been discussions about how to fix this, but I've concluded that sometimes players need to be kicked in the dick so they can improve next game. I know from first-hand experience that this FTC probably also feels like getting kicked in the dick. It sucks, but take solace in the fact that this is a special dick-kicking that many members of the community - longtime members, even! - never have the chance to experience.

Look at this FTC not as the end of Survivor: Know Your Enemy, but as a waypoint on the evolution of your LSG career. This hurts right now, but I guarantee next time you are within striking distance of FTC this will be an invaluable experience that very well could lead to victory in the future.

That's my time. Love you all (yes, you too, Ari <3) and I'll see you all on the other side of the reveal.
Haschel, I don't know what to say here other than to thank you for this post.

I think you do know how much it meant to me to read this, and I appreciate you burning your final post in order to address me here.

This has been the most high-stress, unpleasant, special dick kick I have experienced in a long time.

I honestly felt the votes would at least be somewhat divided here. That I would have been able to argue down some of the things brought up against me. That I could make an honest case for a game well played and that I could maybe squeak out a victory from it.

Apparently that all was thrown away simply because I am sitting beside Jess.

I appreciate so dearly that this game is being played with friends who I know and trust. You are all fantastic and are doing a great job as jurors. I can't wait for it to be over now though.

I suppose I'm honoured to be in this elite group of individuals who got their asses handed to them after what they thought was a fantastically played game.
I have indeed learned a lot from it. And I will do better next time.
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Post Post #163 (isolation #15) » Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:33 am

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 153, D3f3nd3r wrote:Ari, thanks for responding.
Np, sorry about the delay on it.

I see what you are saying about making the Jury do the work here. I'm not going to change anything at this point, and I accept that. I was warned the jury would beat me up a bit, I just was expecting to have more to stand on in here. But let's give some answers.
  • What were you deciding between? If you don't vote for Skrew, what happens?
    if I don't vote for Skrew Malkon goes. And I have to trust the F4 to keep me
    I figured I had a better chance of getting to FTC without Skrew there because I was unsure if he would target Tris and i was unsure is he had more Firemaking points than I did. But I assumed he did and did not want to lose it to a tied vote.

  • In what way was the play your risk? You got zero votes that TC; do you think you would have gotten cut at 4 if the move backfired?
    I had a theory that Malkon and Tris were actually still with Skrew on Jess and timing, among other things, led me to that possibility. It was a risk to go against the tribe there, to lie to them about what I was doing, and to put my nech out so far. It wasn'tthat round, but in F4 and in FTC that I thought it was risky for. If I had made that move and failed, would I be here? I don't know.

  • What did Jess think you were going to do? When did Jess find out what you did, was it during the TC or once the votes got read?
    I told Jess I was voting them and said goodbye that morning. I then had talks with Malkon and Tris and told Jess because at this point we were committed allies and I had made the choice to fight for having her in FTC so of course I was telling her things. I convinced her on the Skrewed maneuver when I Big Brained out a little before FTC. If I had not, her vote would have been on Malkon.
------
And now that you've addressed Skrew's question about me, I think I'll bite on giving that a reply.

Ari, the reason people told me I was likely going out was out of respect. On the Jury probably around the F6, Haschel and I described your social game as coming directly out of Survivor 101, in that it was like a Physics 101 class where you ignore friction and air resistance, and treat every object like a point mass. Sure, backstabbing people is generally how Survivor is played out, but at some point you need to strip away the Survivor label and just go from social skills. That's why people told me I was getting voted out. That's why I was, and to an extent still am, upset at you - it all looked so fake in retrospect, even the parts that weren't us talking Survivor. You never tore off the disguise.
This response has 2 parts.

First, wrt my 101 survivor play, I know that backstabbing isn't the only thing one can do. I am aware other plays exist and that I had other choices. I found something I could do, though, and leaned into it. My other options were to backstab ot betray my original alliances, which furthers this issue, or to become full Goat, which I did not want to do amd which would not have let me win here as I would have nothing to claim as my own.

The second part is going to make me unpopular but it's not like I have the votes to lose so whatever.

I am sorry that I did not tell you. I am sorry that I felt fake in my interactions with you. It has nothing to do with respect. I do respect you, I did enjoy talking with you, running a game together was great. You're a cool guy and I'm sorry that I hurt you.

The reason I do not turn off game mode in conversations is because unless it is predecated by a clause stating it is not game related, it is game related.

In my second ever game of Mafia, I made some sort of offhanded comment to a friend that had little to do with the game but told them I knew info. I was dead and they already had that info, but it made me worry.

In a game 2 years later I went out with a friend who was in a mafia game. We did not even mention it was a thing, but apparently my irl presence told him I was town and therefore turned the tide of the game. I'm still mot sure I should count that victory even though no cheating happened.

When I am in a game, I talk game. It flavours every interaction. sorry about that.
It is part if why I am looking forward to this game being over so much. Because I want the freedom to talk and bond and connect with all the wonderful people who played in this game. I thoroughly enjoyed it and every one of you in it. I want to better get to know those I met here or was simply not as talkative with before the game. I want to be able to do so unrestrained. If that makes me a weaker player, then so be it. But while I have the ability to divorce game talk and personal talk, I do not for the risk of slips in info and the of throwing a game are too great.

I'm not sure how much more I have left in me. I could go through Summer's posts and point out inconsistencies I've noticed. I might get one or two votes from that. I'm not sure if the time sink is worth it, but depending on how I feel after work I may do that closer to deadline.
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Post Post #164 (isolation #16) » Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:36 am

Post by Aristophanes »

I should clarify that the last portion of that post does not mean I was disingenuous with any of you. I love you all and I meant what I said to you and I really enjoyed you all and getting to know you.

I mean that it was all slightly flavoured by the game. But it was all still genuine.
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Post Post #166 (isolation #17) » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:38 am

Post by Aristophanes »

<3
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Post Post #167 (isolation #18) » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:40 am

Post by Aristophanes »

Espeonage, thank you for the song. I understood a lot of depth from it and I don't think I've read too much into it.
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Post Post #169 (isolation #19) » Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:38 am

Post by Aristophanes »

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Post Post #174 (isolation #20) » Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:14 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 173, Mist7676 wrote:rabble
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Post Post #180 (isolation #21) » Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:28 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

So I've been trying to thing of a
5 Seconds of Summer
joke because that's all it takes to be taken by her in this game.

But the joke never came. Someone help me!
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Post Post #200 (isolation #22) » Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:39 am

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 199, Awoo wrote:Okay, but can we agree that OLAAT should have people actually SITTING OUT from the tribe with more members? They totally had a huge advantage on us in numbers, and not just because we had multiple people busy with IRL events.
They didn't use the advantage, had more potential for a player not posting, and had more chance of trolly posts or ones that didn't string the story together. I think it was relatively fair tbh
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Post Post #221 (isolation #23) » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:27 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

What's his AC?
Half meme, Half real, All Aristophanes ;)
- Jingle
Ari has appeared way too competent for me to even pretend to know what they're thinking
- MooseEatsBear on discord mafia
it wouldn’t be an ari sig unless it takes up half the screen on mobile - Vonflare
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