Open 796: Haunted Village Game Over

[MURDERCAT]

so the mafia has a strongman, rolecop, and roleblocker. since scum already knows what town has, is it worth it for town to speculate about what roles town has? it cant hurt right?

I was wondering about this. I actually didn't read the setup that closely so I didn't realize that we learn what the scum chose. Do we know the number of points? I'm going to look at that.

The only thing to wonder about is, because scum knows the roles, any town member who seems to know too much about the setup could get found out.

Also I am super hyped for this game, I think it will be a lot of fun.

VOTE: Isis

[MURDERCAT]

Ok, we do know we have 8 points worth of power.

[MURDERCAT]

Doesn't help either. What it does do is give scum an idea of who's what based on what people speculate.

There are some benefits like hypoing about how certain roles should be used, but scum can interfere with those discussions so probably not that much benefit.

[MURDERCAT]

I guess instead of discussing it I could just run some simulations based on the selection procedure to objectively determine the most likely setups. But I'm not going to do that unless I live until later in the game and it's actually relevant.

[MURDERCAT]

Murdercat, have you ever faked a town-slip as scum before?

-Lance

Almost certainly

If you want my self meta about my scum game I am happy to provide it, but I am usually hesitant to because it is really wifomy and people are then unable to form their own unbiased conclusions.

[MURDERCAT]

Hi Isis!

[MURDERCAT]

Let's town block again if you are town

[MURDERCAT]

Murdercat, have you ever faked a town-slip as scum before?

-Lance

Almost certainly

If you want my self meta about my scum game I am happy to provide it, but I am usually hesitant to because it is really wifomy and people are then unable to form their own unbiased conclusions.

It won't hurt to hear it. Shoot.

-Lance

As town I hard commit to getting people elimed when I become confident they are scum. This usually involves detailed cases, hard pushes, and actively encouraging my town reads to vote with me. This might happen on D1, but is probably more likely to happen on D2.

I put in effort as scum, so long detailed posts are NAI. I can and have bussed, but I am usually hesitant to do so.

I think the biggest tell in my scum game is that I can't fake the level of enthusiasm I have for eliming scum that I have when town.

As town I will often do somewhat questionable things to provoke reads, which may get me miselimed. I do want to try to tone that back this game and just obv town from the start.

As you can tell I've been thinking a lot about my own meta because I just set up my wiki to include all my completed games the other day

[MURDERCAT]

Tayl0r I remember you saying that it took you a while to get going as scum in our last game together. Based on that, I read your early memeing as townie as, I feel like you would be a little more hesitant to post something like 11 as scum even though it's an obvious joke. (I certainly feel that way as scum). What do you think of that read?

[MURDERCAT]

You seem to be very self-aware of your meta. On one hand, I do like that you're willing to voluntarily offer it like this, since I'd guess it'd make you a little more uncomfortable as scum. However, this seems to be the first game where I assume you're trying to eliminate the usefulness of this meta, so I like it, but not as much.

-Lance

Yeah there's also other reasons I'm changing things that I can't talk about due to site rules

[MURDERCAT]

That was later in the game so if you think she would only do that midgame and not during the beginning you could go with that I guess.

That was the thought I had

[MURDERCAT]

I also just wanted to get that reaction ^

[MURDERCAT]

oops, wrong thread.

[MURDERCAT]

Oh, so this is going to be a very talkative game from the start, alright. Sure.

Sorry, games I'm in tend to have a lot of pages. I guess it's because people like talking to me so much?

[MURDERCAT]

Could help scum find the PRs though

[MURDERCAT]

Is this referring to advocating for vig over tracker in 795?

[MURDERCAT]

taylor just despises BM's playstyle.

What about it?

[MURDERCAT]

I promise not to be a cursed vigilante that shoots all town PR's this time.
(Please for the love of god don't read the previous Haunted Village game i was in)

- Norwee

As if I'm not immediately going to go do that right now

[MURDERCAT]

so first of all taylor isnt inactive here. taylor just despises BM's playstyle. taylor does joke around as either alignment. and taylor does become more active and better at reading as the game progresses (as both alignments). and taylor stands by doing setup spec.

i dont think you can backtrack now and suggest you were 'joking around' when you were trying to out town PRs.

This is a misrep of that post though, Tayl0r says she stands by doing setup spec in this post.

[MURDERCAT]

So I think "misrep" is a stretch.

Ok, maybe a misinterp then (I think it's clear what Tayl0r was saying and I don't think it was justifying the discussion around the setup).

[MURDERCAT]

Norwee what is your scum game like?

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah I don't mind your post

[MURDERCAT]

It's hard for me to say, when I use meta I usually look at both scum games and town games and try to develop a priori things to look for to avoid conf biasing. I am not currently reading much into your interaction but there is only a ~50% chance you are both town based on random draw so I think determining whether 1 or more of you are scum will be a useful place to start.

[MURDERCAT]

that's interesting on 2 counts.

Firstly, I thought you would have some opinion about the parallel with Noir Mafia situation, and be willing to share it, as you had recognised it too. I had an expectation of what your opinion might be, but am more surprised you didn't share one. Although I appreciate the need for balanced meta, that doesn't preclude you reflecting on whether 2 situations/behaviours are comparable.

Secondly, I struggle to see what you're getting at with the probability thing. Isn't that the same with any 2 random players? And if you aren't reading much into the interaction, why even bother picking me and Taylor? Getting a slightly weird vibe here that you're starting with the presumption of at least 1 of us being scum, which wouldn't accord.

Yeah I guess what I am saying is that I am specifically trying not to meta just based off of that one data point just because it is particularly salient. But yes I am noticing the parallel that you are seeing. I am also slightly worried that you might attempt to use that parallel as scum to make town taylor look bad, if I'm being perfectly honest. Not saying that's how I'm reading it, but that's why I'm being careful.

And yes, it is true that it works for any two players but you two had a very pointed interaction, that's why it makes sense to start there. So I'm not currently getting much out of it, but I might if I look at some meta and I'm going to be watching how you two continue to interact in the early game going forward. It's not an assumption that one of you is scum, just a starting point.

[MURDERCAT]

I might be alone in thinking that meta is largely useless, especially if you have enough awareness in your own trends to purposefully use it to confuse people, but I am finding the comments on it so far interesting.

I like meta on D1 as a tool to form early reads and also it can be a good way to get reactions out of others. Something to talk about.

Later on I prefer other sources of information, but will still occasionally deep dive.

[MURDERCAT]

Hello Dunnstral, long time no see. I believe we played together back in 2016.

[MURDERCAT]

no way they're both scum that's for sure

Why? I am leaning that way but don't feel comfortable concluding that at the moment.

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah I was kind of thinking that as well, but for the sake of the game I'm explicitly trying not to let that color my decision making.

[MURDERCAT]

I do feel like BM's analysis is a little simplistic, but it is only page 6. It could also be pressure for the sake of pressure rather than a true strong scum read.

[MURDERCAT]

well what will you make of it when BM is applying the same pressure to me on day 3?

I'm not sure what you are getting at but obviously if BM has nothing more than your shitposts on page 1 to go off of and is still pushing you for it on D2 he won't make it to D3.

[MURDERCAT]

I do feel like BM's analysis is a little simplistic, but it is only page 6. It could also be pressure for the sake of pressure rather than a true strong scum read.

I meta'd BM and feel less weird about this now

[MURDERCAT]

oh no

[MURDERCAT]

I'm just kidding, welcome Noraa

[MURDERCAT]

I'm just kidding, welcome Noraa

u sure that was a joke? o_O

I was just explicitly trying not to spam in this game to try to keep it to a limited number of pages

[MURDERCAT]

It does seem like fairest thing to do right?

Actually I think I might be seeing the reasoning on your canadian vote, but I'd like to hear why you voted there

[MURDERCAT]

this "RC" nicknaming convention is gonna be a hella struggle

I suggest canadian instead

[MURDERCAT]

VOTE: RandomCanadian

I am going to very blatantly hop on this wagon because [reasons to be revealed later]

[MURDERCAT]

hmm this RC wagon is koving kinda fast
i think there could be scum on it

You're saying the quiet part loud

[MURDERCAT]

i can already tell this game is going to be hard work.

You can die night 1 and let me do it if you want?

[MURDERCAT]

I do like this point tho. More relaxed normally means more likely to be town. Not a super reliable tell but it seems like something a townie would catch onto rather than scum.

I did genuinely notice this but it was actually a bait to see if Tayl0r as relatively inexperienced scum would take a free town read from me

[MURDERCAT]

you say u dont want to spectate then continue to spectate

Are you calling him scummy?

Isis are you town? I feel like your tone is a bit different this game but I really need you to sort Noraa for me

[MURDERCAT]

Welcome, I assume you are an alt? What is your experience level if you don't mind me asking?

[MURDERCAT]

Fair enough, what are your reads Noraa?

[MURDERCAT]

when i flip town, for goodness sake elim her lol

this scumpings

This makes me read BM as town actually, there's no reason for scum to act like this so early with no pressure

[MURDERCAT]

noraa wanna join my xoxelf wagon

i think we've already learnt quite a lot. an unusually high number of people defending taylor without grounds.

oh shit guys he caught us
the entire scumteam swapped to defend taylor cause 1 person is tunneling her in the first 10 pages
ggs time to concede

VOTE: xofelf

xofelf wagon?

its an awfully big scumteam. ~5 people said they didnt understand BM's push on me.

VOTE: Noraa

Why leave the wagon?

[MURDERCAT]

i think we've already learnt quite a lot. an unusually high number of people defending taylor without grounds.

BM I'm willing to work with you, but what makes you think Tayl0r is scum? Was it just the page 1 joke or is there something else?

[MURDERCAT]

Ok looking at your iso I see you have other stuff in your first post so let me revise my question.

Is it still just the page 1/2 content from Tayl0r or has your read incorporated any additional info since then?

[MURDERCAT]

Why leave the wagon?

@TSwift

[MURDERCAT]

Isis left so there's a spot open on the narwhal if anyone wants it

[MURDERCAT]

is there history between you/isis/noraa? and talk about your tonal read on isis?

Isis and I are basically best friends, we played together in open 795. I can't talk about my game history with Noraa due to site rules.

[MURDERCAT]

More when I'm at my computer

[MURDERCAT]

UNVOTE: by the way, served it's purpose

[MURDERCAT]

VOTE: RandomCanadian

I am going to very blatantly hop on this wagon because [reasons to be revealed later]

mmmmm, the longer you wait the more impressive the reasoning will have to be.

The idea was that there is likely scum on the wagon, just because it's easier to get 5 votes from 13 players than 10. If you remember from Noir, you had an early wagon on you that involved a vote from PP. I think that scum often takes the opportunity to distance with an early wagon, so I had a theory that Random Canadian might be scum getting hit by that distance vote (also I saw that Random Canadian had logged on but not posted in this thread, which seemed a little off to me considering how early into the game we were). Either way I was curious how votes would react as the wagon accelerated. It's probably not super useful right now but I think it will be nice to look back on after we get some flips. I did hate Isis's vote to leave the wagon but she did the exact same thing in Noir (and I hated it there too ). I'm not sure what to make of your unvote and revote.

[MURDERCAT]

and talk about your tonal read on isis?

I would have to do a real meta read to say anything meaningful about this. But on D1 of our game together Isis seemed much more casual with her posts. This game she reads as more calculated to me, like we are getting her second or third thought/rephrasing instead of her first if you know what I mean? I don't know if this is scum indicative, or maybe she is just taking this game more seriously, or maybe she just hasn't been drunk since this game started but I have noticed it and I will probably meta read on it sometime on D1. Of course I did feel that her posting style was off that game too so maybe I'm being unfair

[MURDERCAT]

VOTE: xofelf

The fact that so many people are throwing shade here when I am totally null on them makes me suspicious. Sorry tayl0r, come vote here now let's see what happens.

[MURDERCAT]

PlusJOYED feels opportunistic, and like they'll go for whatever vote they can get enough traction on, and I'm always a real easy target

Do you think Plus would have know that?

[MURDERCAT]

I guess I'm curious how you are telling apart someone who might legitimately think you're scum from someone who is being opportunistic Xofelf.

[MURDERCAT]

I'm fine with that answer xofelf, though I'm not convinced by it.

[MURDERCAT]

of these, I think I like murdercats vote the least. I dislike the swapping, we're out of RVS at this point. they'd be my guess for scum on the wagon but i still wanna pursue xoxelf atm

I want to hear more about this, what do you not like about it? I'm being pretty transparent about what I'm doing.

[MURDERCAT]

Specifically the speculation on a role because of the strongman doesn't align with the feeling I was getting.

Can you explain what you mean by this?

[MURDERCAT]

@Mod Does banshee wail (strongman kill) give unique kill text?

[MURDERCAT]

I mean there's not really any guesswork involved and I'm not sure why Plus was so coy about it. The existence of a strongman from what I read of the setup basically confirms that we have a doc. This should be obvious to everyone. If anything it makes me suspect Plus for it, as if he recently had it on his mind..

[MURDERCAT]

Oh I was wrong, strongman kills commuter in this setup. Disregard me.

[MURDERCAT]

It does not.

[MURDERCAT]

VOTE: RandomCanadian

I am going to very blatantly hop on this wagon because [reasons to be revealed later]

mmmmm, the longer you wait the more impressive the reasoning will have to be.

The idea was that there is likely scum on the wagon, just because it's easier to get 5 votes from 13 players than 10. If you remember from Noir, you had an early wagon on you that involved a vote from PP. I think that scum often takes the opportunity to distance with an early wagon, so I had a theory that Random Canadian might be scum getting hit by that distance vote (also I saw that Random Canadian had logged on but not posted in this thread, which seemed a little off to me considering how early into the game we were). Either way I was curious how votes would react as the wagon accelerated. It's probably not super useful right now but I think it will be nice to look back on after we get some flips. I did hate Isis's vote to leave the wagon but she did the exact same thing in Noir (and I hated it there too ). I'm not sure what to make of your unvote and revote.

[MURDERCAT]

who's throwing shade (are you talking about scumreading?)?

I feel like there were a couple of "yeah xofelf seems kinda suss but I'm gunna vote over here instead for now." I could go look for them but I felt like I saw that a couple times. It makes me suspicious of the people who were doing that more so than xofelf, but there is chance that they were posting that to setup a future bus if needed but don't want to vote there yet. But that's reading way too much into it. I'm voting there because I like inflating wagons.

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah I used the wiki for my setup knowledge and unless I missed something commuter usually is completely immune.
this looks like tmi from murdercat since I didnt see him ask that anywhere. It's plausible he scumslipped and had asked that in his pt

It's in the special rules for the commuter in this setup

[MURDERCAT]

@Murdercat why did you feel the need to clarify on the kill flavor?

The strongman is every other night, so it would be nice to know if it is on or off for a given night.

[MURDERCAT]

Why did you unvote rather than change to a different wagon? I know this may sound menial, but usually unvoting is a reaction to a post or something someone said.

Because enough time had passed, no one else seemed to be jumping on. I was on my phone so I didn't want to post the stuff that came after that until later.

[MURDERCAT]

i still dont like how fast the RC wagon fell apart for no reason other than "ooh a shiny"

lol you tried to leave it though

[MURDERCAT]

@Battle Mage, I’m still interested in this. Can you summarise how she did this and link please?

I asked and didn't get a response I don't think. I believe it refers to one of these:

viewtopic.php?p=12126543#p12126543
viewtopic.php?p=12128504#p12128504

[MURDERCAT]

we don't really have a PT, it seems like we've decided to just talk in thread which will get messy if we're gonna disagree a lot

townslip?

[MURDERCAT]

I interpreted it as normally hydras all have private threads and mod hadn't given them theirs yet. But ig that is not how it works?

I would guess they explicitly asked for one

[MURDERCAT]

Why is this a townslip?

They would have a scum PT

[MURDERCAT]

The question isn't really if it *could be* fake, the question is would scum gamma think to fake it?

[MURDERCAT]

@mod, actually does scum have a discord or are they using a pt?

I don't think this is something the mod should or would answer

[MURDERCAT]

xoxelf

I does feel like you are doing it on purpose now, and is kind of rude imo

[MURDERCAT]

I request a neighborhood for me Isis and Noraa

[MURDERCAT]

[MURDERCAT]

I find it interesting that Plus's readlist has exactly 3 scum and most everyone else is town. I'm not sure what to make of it yet, but I wanted to being that up for discussion. It might be a bit, crafted?

[MURDERCAT]

Dunnstral, do you agree that 442 is potentially scummy then?

[MURDERCAT]

VOTE: PlusJOYED

I think I'd rather be voting with Dunnstral, Gamma, and Noraa than Plus, Taylor, and Isis right now

Also I think xofelf has been fine and that Plus readlist just seems a bit off to me.

[MURDERCAT]

I'd consider this to be my first real vote

[MURDERCAT]

@Narwhal what do you think of Plus right now?

[MURDERCAT]

VOTE: PlusJOYED

I think I'd rather be voting with Dunnstral, Gamma, and Noraa than Plus, Taylor, and Isis right now

Also I think xofelf has been fine and that Plus readlist just seems a bit off to me.

what is with these wagonomics?
i dont like this post at all. You've been wagon hopping really hard. Like your voting not who you think is scum, but voting who you think is more towny to sheep with. Like it's hard to see this play coming from town.

I'd consider this to be my first real vote

[MURDERCAT]

VOTE: PlusJOYED

I think I'd rather be voting with Dunnstral, Gamma, and Noraa than Plus, Taylor, and Isis right now

Also I think xofelf has been fine and that Plus readlist just seems a bit off to me.

thats what the first half of this post says to me

I am getting more town pings from the people I am currently voting with than the people I was voting with.
I have gotten more scum pings from the people I was voting with compared to the people I am currently voting with.

I don't want to make any strong claims about that and it wouldn't have been enough to move my vote on it's own. Your readlist and my lack of a xofelf scum read played a larger role.

[MURDERCAT]

Not Voting (4): Cobra Kai, xofelf

Curious where these two are at

[MURDERCAT]

Well I find the fact that you posted a read list at all a little suspicious in addition to the fact that everyone is townish except for 4 people. I also feel like, as Dunnstral said, some of the reasoning seems week compared to the strength of the read you give. For example, Ego is your strongest town read, but this is all you gave:

ego: town. I think his posts show a town mindset. Same reasons as exorcist. No posts I have a problem with.

I think that it would help if you posted some of those reads that you think show a town mindset and why?

[MURDERCAT]

some of those posts*

[MURDERCAT]

do you not TR ego? Honestly his whole iso felt towny. If you insist I can pick some but I'd rather not put in the effort since theres no pressure on ego.

another flaw in your idea is that it's a bad idea to draw more attention to myself with say a readlist if I'm being pressured. If I was scum, I'd lurk and have my partners cause a distraction to derail my wagon.

I'm interested in hearing your reasoning more so than trying to form a read there myself

[MURDERCAT]

plus lets start a counterwagon on dunnstral

VOTE: dunnstral

why?

[MURDERCAT]

Spoiler: Narwhal on Plus

Xofelf, I kind of agree you on the Plus read. He seems a little more calculated than my past experiences with him, which gives me some suspicion of them but much like you say about yourself, Plus is an easy target at times because of his play.

What do you think about his opening post in 35?

In post 342, Random Canadian wrote:
Xofelf, I kind of agree you on the Plus read. He seems a little more calculated than my past experiences with him, which gives me some suspicion of them but much like you say about yourself, Plus is an easy target at times because of his play.

What do you think about his opening post in 35?

Is that more calculated? That just seems a bit "hold up let me get an RVS in here real quick, and also some thoughts real hurried that aren't gonna mean much, but are definitely here." It does ping weird, but I didn't think anything of it cuz it could mean anything really.

The opposite really. I feel that post is less likely to come from a calculated scum standpoint. Specifically the speculation on a role because of the strongman doesn't align with the feeling I was getting. I get the calculated feeling from some of his later posts but wanted to hear your opinion on that one since you thought had some thoughts that his play might be opportunistic.

Sure. In this situation scum know exactly what roles town has. I'm finding it hard to believe that scum!Plus would come out of the gate faking a guess that town has a certain role based on the scum roles chosen.

@Narwhal what do you think of Plus right now?

Other than Isis right now, Plus is the other person I'm leaning scum on right now. Admittedly, he has said that he tried playing differently because he often gets mislimmed, which is part of why I am looking at Isis and have my vote there. I have mislimmed Plus in the past as town, but some of his posts in this game give me a feel that he has thought about them more and have scum drive behind them.

It feels like you are flipping around on Plus a bit, that's why I'm asking. Can you provide an example of something with scum drive or that seems more thought out than you are used to?

[MURDERCAT]

Individually his posts don't look that out of the ordinary but put together, I think he has a plan to look active and comment on the things going on. Within his comments, it looks like he could have scum motivation to put himself in position to scumread many different people later on as he needs. At the moment, he has many weak townreads but none seem that strong that he wouldn't come back on later if he needs to.

Hmm ok thank you. I don't find your argument convincing at the moment but it is useful to get your thoughts

[MURDERCAT]

Not to mention ur post with all the reads has about two sentences dedicated to me and far more dedicated to other people yet your vote is on me. That's definitely strange.

I was also surprised to see a Noraa vote at the end of the wall, but I agree that is less likely if it was a wall from scum Isis as it would be a bit more calculated.

I'm agreeing with something Noraa is saying, what's going on?

[MURDERCAT]

no

lol I feel like this it much more likely to come from town

UNVOTE:

I think we have lurky scum

[MURDERCAT]

501 seems kinda towny to me too and I haven't been pinged by her at all but I am not familiar with Noraa scum game

[MURDERCAT]

isnt this argument ur exact argument tho?

Specifically about the readlist, nothing in the other posts caught my attention

[MURDERCAT]

why's it more likely to come from town?

It's just very bold which I think comes from a genuine scum read on you. A genuine scum read on you would have to come from town.

[MURDERCAT]

VOTE: Cobra Kai

This slot has done worse than nothing.

[MURDERCAT]

501 does not seem towny to me at all

But I know it is very egg-on-face if I don't sort that town and should be able to

I feel like I have been mad at players like that as scum moreso than town because as town it seems like it could be weak scumplay that is more forgivable.

Fair enough, what specifically stuck out to me was "you couldn't explain a TR that should be pretty easy to explain to murder" which makes me think Noraa has been tracking this stuff and is genuinely feeling frustration.

[MURDERCAT]

I like MURDERCAT

I like you too Isis!

[MURDERCAT]

It was answered, no unique text

[MURDERCAT]

I 100% believe scum!plus would say something like that.

Based on what though, he has no completed scum games right?

[MURDERCAT]

This quote has always stuck with me and the author is around :3

Yeah but why get frustrated if you are scum there? Anyway it's not that strong of read

[MURDERCAT]

he does

Is it a recent one then? Which one? When looking for scum games I usually just skim for mafia PTs in their posts

[MURDERCAT]

Thinking a town!Plus is gonna get townread anyway. And lo and behold you unvoted plus

Ok I see that actually.

[MURDERCAT]

he does

Is it a recent one then? Which one? When looking for scum games I usually just skim for mafia PTs in their posts

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84069

I see thanks. I probably won't look at this too closely because there's no D1 data but I'll at least give it a skim.

[MURDERCAT]

I dont understand what this means but I think its sussing me?

No I just understand Isis's POV on it. Scum you could conceivably be genuinely angry at plus because you think he should be a bigger miselim target and is getting away with not doing anything.

[MURDERCAT]

That is a terrible way to think. I get frustrated/upset as town far more often AND I only get upset as scum when I'm getting tunneled or under pressure.

I believe this to be true FWIW

[MURDERCAT]

nowadays? u make it sound like u've been playing for years and years. wait are u an alt? O_o

Someone didn't read all of the Isis is now a list mod thread

[MURDERCAT]

I really vibe with this post here. Feels to me like townie picking up on the details. I, personally actually missed this.

Pretty sure Isis said the same thing in her wall?

[MURDERCAT]

Can I get a ELI5 for the context and why it's role fishing?

You'd have to ask BM, it didn't ping me in the game

[MURDERCAT]

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=80272

[MURDERCAT]

VOTE: Cobra Kai

This slot has done worse than nothing.

It’s not badass to spam the thread. It is the be a man of few words, because those words get listened to.

Cobra Kai never dies.

Was hoping we'd get some more activity by now. Can we vote this please? Produce some content

[MURDERCAT]

I'm leaving it open to your interpretation what sort of content you'd like to produce but if you want questions fine:

Top two town reads
Top two scum reads
Two people who are never scum together
Two people who could be scum together if one flips red

[MURDERCAT]

Ok I'm curious to get your thoughts post reread

[MURDERCAT]

I like BM's recent posts

[MURDERCAT]

UNVOTE:

Curious where you at Isis

[MURDERCAT]

Don't use ongoing games as the basis for your read then hint vaguely at it in the game thread while never explaining anything, it NEVER goes well for you

Agree

[MURDERCAT]

I feel like I've totally lost the thread of this game, I need to do some iso dives. Where is xofelf?

[MURDERCAT]

In the lower right is the activity overview

[MURDERCAT]

@Mod
Am i allowed to paraphrase lines from the discord?

I think it might be best if we stop asking the mod things

[MURDERCAT]

Who's scum Noraa

[MURDERCAT]

Re:Noraas- I’ve seen you argue as town and you are stubborn but not this over the top, as she is. I get you want to stick up for someone you think is LHF but I think you are underestimating Noraa.

I agree with this

[MURDERCAT]

Is that scummy for PJ in particular? I tried to apply this as a general tell rather than a personal one in a recent game and it was a hard miss. The last time I'd applied it before that was a personal read and it was accurate, so think that's how it should be used.

I have never played with Plus

[MURDERCAT]

Particular reason you don't want to vote anywhere else? I don't think we're at the point where consolidation is critical yet, are we?

No, just trying to make things happen

[MURDERCAT]

Reason you felt like doing this when you did?

It's getting close to do a D1 reread time so I'm trying to get more out of some lurky slots

[MURDERCAT]

on page 22, noticed a lot of people pushing Dunn, I think he's made some commentary I don't think he would have made at this point as scum
I think scumStral tends to be a bit more sideliney

-GAMMA

This is interesting because I would consider Dunn to be sideliney this game

[MURDERCAT]

xof and BM have both just hand waved you as LHF when

it’s pretty evident you aren’t giving a factual interpretation of the game.

Do you have a specific instance/scenario this is referring to here?

Who's scum narwhal?

[MURDERCAT]

What is your read on me presently, MCat?

Ninja-
Whatever you say.

I am glad you are contributing. I think your posts are vaguely towny, but I'm not convinced they are town in a way that can't be faked.

Right now I am feeling like the narwhal really quieted down after early pressure and has been absent

[MURDERCAT]

Murder I want a read too

I do feel like your town is a bit different than what I am used to, but I need to read a scum game of yours to actually see if that tone is consistent with you as scum.

[MURDERCAT]

Murder question: am I tunneling plus too much?

My major concern with your play towards plus is that it is mostly omgus

[MURDERCAT]

Find some actual scum motivation and we can talk about both you being town and plus being scum

[MURDERCAT]

My mind might change as I finish this catchup but I think the scummiest active player left to me is Battle Mage

That one comment BM made about how I assuming one of him/tayl0r was scum is still pinging me and I can't shake it

[MURDERCAT]

You have to calibrate for the fact that it's Dunn. I think you haven't played with him much at all, right?

1 game 4 years ago but I remember it ok because I played well

[MURDERCAT]

That seems fair, though you also switched votes quite soon after?

I would argue that was a good switch as cobra is much more active now

[MURDERCAT]

Is rereading D1 something you always do?

If the day continues on long enough, yeah.

[MURDERCAT]

Okay so looking back on things Noraa is right to call PJ's leaning on ongoing meta "hiding behind site rules", because she refuted him pretty soundly and then he resorts to this sort of "lalala I can't hear you" posting

someone finally understands why I'm so annoyed by that?

What I don't get it why it warrants a scum read from Noraa

[MURDERCAT]

I could very easily go back to lurking. I’m posting because I want to.

If this is a response to me, I believe you and I am glad you are posting more

[MURDERCAT]

I think people asked me for reads. Right now I'm looking at something like {xofelf, Narwhal, BM} for SRs. Not my only possible solves, but these are people I'm looking at.

There's posts from all of them that ping scummy to me, but there's some poe as well.

UNVOTE:

still thinking about where to push and how.

[MURDERCAT]

Ok I'm going to case Battle Mage.

90 misinterps Tayl0r as I pointed out at the time. I think this comes from a fast read of the post looking for something to poke at more often than it comes from town who I think would genuinely read it.

110 feels realllllly weak to me still along with 121

I think all the defeated language around 229 is fake

589 is totally inconsistent with the push on Tayl0r which obviously lost steam.

593 feels like a sheep of Isis and to be honest I don't see it

Including 600 BM just has way too many scum reads and not enough town reads. What really sticks out is how it feels like the Tayl0r push just got totally dropped and Tayl0r did nothing to deserve it being dropped if it was a genuine read.

VOTE: Battle Mage

[MURDERCAT]

Isis come talk to me about this? Are we seeing the same things?

[MURDERCAT]

I feel like we are at different places because I am struggling to find townies. Who are your top 3?

[MURDERCAT]

I can get down with the first two, narwhal I need to see more from

[MURDERCAT]

What do you think of narwhal tayl0r

[MURDERCAT]

In reality I just Iso'd Exorcists and decided they seemed like the towniest slot. If you want to debate that point, we can?

Sure I'd like to hear the reasoning

[MURDERCAT]

Isis come talk to me about this? Are we seeing the same things?

you make a case on me, and care more about engaging Isis on it than me? interesting...

Yeah because isis had just posted about you

[MURDERCAT]

I think Narwhal is Random Canadian?

Correct

[MURDERCAT]

Xof, what do you make of BM?

[MURDERCAT]

Also, something not clear in the BM iso is that me and others (xof I think) tried to get more info out of BM about the taylor read and he didn't engage, which I feel like he definitely would have if it was a real death tunnel

[MURDERCAT]

Is there anyone who is reading town on BM right now? If so, please explain

[MURDERCAT]

hmmmmm
how probable is it that they dipped as soon as the spotlight turned away from them?

This is what I noticed, even the recent posts have not really had a lot of content

[MURDERCAT]

Noraa look at BM for me, what do you see?

[MURDERCAT]

BM behaves exactly like this as town yet not like this as scum.

Say more? Respond to what I posted?

[MURDERCAT]

Town Noraa didn't push this hard.

If you think this is true you should see the last day of Roses

[MURDERCAT]

This game feels like it is going nowhere fast. We have 3 days left. Need to see more from xof and Dunn.

Scum is probably just coasting because town is being lazy. I posted a case on BM. Can people please either engage with it or make a new case?

[MURDERCAT]

Gamma please come help me out here

[MURDERCAT]

It feels like you and Plus are just noise right now to be perfectly honest.

Who else is scum Noraa?

[MURDERCAT]

371 is tayl0r's best post, let's analyze it. What do you see plus? What do you see Noraa?

[MURDERCAT]

This game feels like it is going nowhere fast. We have 3 days left. Need to see more from xof and Dunn.

Scum is probably just coasting because town is being lazy. I posted a case on BM. Can people please either engage with it or make a new case?

you're actually standing by that case on me!?

Don't worry buddy, I'll answer your little challenge.

What have you done to respond to it? Not much, IMO

[MURDERCAT]

Plus I think you'll enjoy watching real time as BM manages to find a 7th SR on me despite the fact that it makes 0 sense for me to push BM at this stage of the game as scum.

[MURDERCAT]

I saw it BM, it mostly boils down to "No I didn't drop taylor" (despite you not voting there)

"I don't think the thing you think is scummy is scummy"

593 happened independently, which I can't confirm or deny

[MURDERCAT]

About 589, I am referring to "i would flip egotisi today." which feels very strange considering you pushed so hard on Tayl0r

[MURDERCAT]

What made you change your mind here?

Rereading the iso in context

[MURDERCAT]

A. A proper rebuttal to my dismantling of his case.

I'm fine with people thinking my case is weak, but if people really agree with this I don't know what to tell you.

In short, I think if Murdercat is town, this is a pretty lazy effort. Doing 1 ISO, and then just tunnelling that slot

This just isn't a representation of what is happening at the moment. I read multiple isos as you can see in my iso and by the fact I waited 45 minutes to post about you after saying I was deciding where to push.

If you think it's possible I play this way as town, why don't you go check?

[MURDERCAT]

I think it's telling that BM is suddenly active now that there is actually some pressure on his slot.

[MURDERCAT]

Ok BM tell me then who are you actually town reading?

[MURDERCAT]

I'm going to be gone for a few hours but I'll be back to respond

[MURDERCAT]

lol dude gimme a break, I took some time out of the game because I was becoming emotionally affected by some of the comments. Using that as an argument I'm scum to bolster your broken case is poor form. And no offence, but I think your case is having the opposite effect than you intended.

At least people are talking. And if you genuinely did step away I'm sorry, but you have posted a fair amount since you said that.

[MURDERCAT]

snip

892 is my response and it has just as much substance as your original response. There's no point in arguing with you about it because you'll continue to poke at it and claim it's weak. I care about what other players think about it, not you. And I know you are a strong player so I don't see why you think I'd go to you instead of anyone else I could have, e.g. narwhal or plus.

[MURDERCAT]

Lol hi infinity

[MURDERCAT]

I appreciate the compliment about my strength, but I was also a mostly-absent player. I think it's perfectly reasonable that you'd take the opportunity to railroad me, especially if any of my reads were right. I'm not keen on your dismissive attitude towards my response to you, nor your admitting that you don't want to engage with me directly and instead want to try and browbeat other players into running me up. I don't believe you care what other players genuinely think, because when other players have told you it isn't a good case, you've either ignored them or told them they are wrong. In short, you don't care whether you are right or wrong, you just want to elim me for no reason.

The thing is, regardless of your alignment, you will never accept the case. So I don't gain a lot from talking to you. I gain a lot more from other people actually engaging with the game, which is what I am trying to make happen. I do care what other players think, but if they just right if off as "meh" that's not helpful and also not actually advancing the game. I am much more interested in what you have to say about Tayl0r than what you have to say about my case against you (though of course others would be interested).

[MURDERCAT]

I don't think it would be quite right to say Murdercat engaged with his townreads here - he seemed fairly indiscriminate

This much is true. I am not only using reactions to my case to read others I am also generally trying to increase activity

[MURDERCAT]

Why Noraa? What did you think of narwhal?

[MURDERCAT]

be open to the possibility of being wrong.

I am open to it, but I want to hear it from other players. But ok let's talk about Tayl0r because that feels useful

[MURDERCAT]

The thing that gets me about your Tayl0r case BM is that it seems to be mostly focused on things that happened page 1/2ish. It's page 38 and I don't believe you've said much about Tayl0r's votes, tayl0r's lack of info about Noraa meta, Tayl0r's generally lurkiness. Like there are recent things that I see in Tayl0r's iso that look to me to be more like they could be scum than the shitposts early on (including that recent comment about you once I started pushing you) but it feels like you dropped off from pushing those things when Tayl0r wagon lost some steam.

[MURDERCAT]

And sure you can say that you dropped off Tayl0r *because* it lost steam but it just looks weird to me that you stop pushing her at all and fall out of the game

[MURDERCAT]

@BM Ok well if you are actually town give me something good to read and you'll kill 2 birds with 1 stone, I'll town read you and push tayl0r with you.

[MURDERCAT]

I see some of what you’re saying on BM but I don’t feel it’s as strong a case as I think you do

-GAMMA

Fair enough I'm willing to let it go today if BM comes back with something on taylor

[MURDERCAT]

ah great, so i dont need to remember the nickname anymore! I look forward to reading them all though.

Actually I will be referring to infinity as narwhal for the rest of the game to keep things simple

[MURDERCAT]

UNVOTE:

Exorcist + gamma is good enough for me to unvote, obviously its not going anywhere

[MURDERCAT]

I see some of what you’re saying on BM but I don’t feel it’s as strong a case as I think you do

-GAMMA

Fair enough I'm willing to let it go today if BM comes back with something on taylor

im not a fan of this approach but wont labour the point. I think you should see this lack of support as increasing the likelihood of BM-scum, rather than reducing it. Why do you suppose some of the people defending me are not my partners?

They are TRs or TRs of my TRs. This is why I was less convinced by Noraa and Plus

[MURDERCAT]

UNVOTE:

Exorcist + gamma is good enough for me to unvote, obviously its not going anywhere

*shrug*

you gonna join me on Taylor then or what?

I'll think about it, but I honestly haven't convinced myself one way of the other on Noraa. I think Plus is lean town FWIW alice

[MURDERCAT]

Infinity I'm playing with you in every game from now on

[MURDERCAT]

Infinity I'm playing with you in every game from now on

what do you think the likelihood is that Infinity-scum joined this game and decided to buddy you hard? I feel the odds of that are pretty good

0% infinity scum, 100% chance of buddying.

(This is a joke, but I don't think infinity is scum)

[MURDERCAT]

why do you think he's town? meta? hard to believe he's like this in all games...

Just seems like a weird entrance for scum

[MURDERCAT]

i also have a feeling i know what noraa's role is

BM how confident are you in this and can you share anything about how you came to your conclusion? Air on the side of not saying anything.

[MURDERCAT]

The thing about Noraa is that people who have played with her knows she does this as town so it's hard to get a good scum read on her for it.

[MURDERCAT]

The thing about Noraa is that people who have played with her knows she does this as town so it's hard to get a good scum read on her for it.

Murder if u think this, tell me why Taylor and Plus are SRing me. I agree. This is how I play as town all the way bc I am fucking town here. But tell me why are they pushing my wagon still? And they are specifically using my meta AGAINST me when this is my literal town game

You could just as easily do it as scum though, I don't know your scum game

[MURDERCAT]

Murdercat, not sure what you need from me. If you're not already thinking about voting me, you can decide on another elim without my input

I'm trying to find town, I want your input on the game state to know whether to include you in that list

[MURDERCAT]

I'm willing to roll with something like a {me, plus, isis, infinity, gamma} town block right now I think

[MURDERCAT]

Even a random group of 4/12 players isn't that unlikely to be all town with 3 scum in the game

[MURDERCAT]

I will when I'm at a computer, but I liked their reactions to me vs BM. For Isis I think she is genuinely solving despite my constant paranoia that she would probably beat me as scum.

[MURDERCAT]

why the datisi slot?
I've had no problem with that slot so far and I think most of what that slot says is reasonable

This is also my read on the slot, but that usually makes me feel very uneasy

[MURDERCAT]

How well I can remember you doing things is a good predictor of scum IMO. Like infinity said, if there were a lot of posts that seemed reasonable at the time but I can't remember anything you actually did maybe they were just be busy posts and not real scum hunting. But I'm not sure if that works as well for a hydra.

[MURDERCAT]

Why do you think it’s different for hydras?

Hydras I think tend to be more lurky with catch up posts and the heads might also disagree. So I think it's just harder to keep track of where they are at

[MURDERCAT]

Like, he called BM shading us inconsistent with the Taylor read, when it had nothing to do with it.

The point was that BM said to flip you despite the strong read on taylor

[MURDERCAT]

But BM had multiple scumreads. He confirmed us as "lockscum" after Datisi posted. It's just a really weird push that you stopped after it gained no traction.

I mean you are basically accusing me of the same thing that I accused BM of. My point was that he had bunch of SRs and a lot of them were unusually strong. It felt weird that he seemed to have had a lock scum read on tayl0r and then he started pushing you despite things that, to me, showed the possbility of tayl0r being scum much more than the things he originally pointed out. It's fine to have more than one scum read, it was just weird to me that there seemed to be little follow up and he pushed elsewhere instead.

[MURDERCAT]

Oh god there's a lot to catch up with, but I'd just like to say big oof to that catchup from xofelf

*tin foil*

coming to the thread now that ego is being pressured?

[MURDERCAT]

MURDERCAT does lots of stuff I like but isn't town, in a way, and the way Battle Mage approaches skepticism for the slot might be another part of me feeling better about BM. But I don't, like, scumread MURDERCAT (how do I teach my computer to capitalize it the way my phone does?)

I think this is a normal reaction to the way I post

I actually feel the same way about infinity, I forget if I said it in this game but I often look for people who are seeing the same things I am.

I am very interested in how quickly the ego wagon is picking up steam